Please pass along my regards to Dee Mills, Surrey, United Kingdom
tony cooper
Views", in this newspaper) from a Dee Mills of Surrey, United Kingdom,
who says that: "We recently had a superb family holiday in Orlando"
but then goes on for 3 column inches about how "grossly overweight"
Americans are, how "fat adults wobble around Walt Disney World with
their fat kids", and how mealtimes were "disgusting" because the
people she observed "pack away as much food as possible".
Dee Mills of Surrey, United Kingdom, then continues - non sequiturish,
in my opinion - that "It's a well-known fact that the majority of
Americans don't have a passport and have never traveled outside of the
USA". More ranting about "totally ill-educated, arrogant, and unaware
of anything outside the United States" Americans.
While I am pleased that Dee Mills of Surrey, United Kingdom, had a
superb family holiday in the area in which I live, and - though
reasonably slim, myself - I can offer no defense against the charge of
grossly overweight American's wobbling through the delights of the
Magic Kingdom, or the disgusting eating habits (I think she was
referring to volume consumed and not method of consumption) of
Americans, I would like to point out to Dee Mills of Surrey, United
Kingdom, that the majority of Americans don't *need* a passport.
The majority of us can visit a Walt Disney theme park without ever
crossing a border. If we are willing to settle for a holiday trip to
a theme park less iconic than Disney, there are other theme parks
scattered from "California to the New York island, From the redwood
forest, to the gulf stream water". No passports required.
Dee Mills of Surrey, United Kingdom should also know that the majority
of Americans do not need a passport to change climate or scenery. We
can drive to the mountains, to the beaches, to the desert, and to the
forests without producing a government document. (However, if we fly
to those destinations we must produce some document, and do so in our
stocking feet)
We can travel passportless to sunbathe on the sand, ski on snowy
slopes, gawk at nature's wonders, wobble through museums and art
galleries, and hear foreign languages spoken by the majority around
us.
If you happen to know Dee Mills of Surrey, United Kingdom, I would
appreciate it if you would pass along this information. I would
inform Dee Mills of this by letter to the Surrey, United Kingdom,
local newspaper, but I'm at a loss to know what newspaper that would
be. I suppose that can be marked down to being an American unaware of
anything outside the United States.
--
Tony Cooper
Orlando, FL
Skitt
> Today's _Orlando Sentinel_ contains a letter to the editor ("Reader
> Views", in this newspaper) from a Dee Mills of Surrey, United Kingdom,
[...]
> If you happen to know Dee Mills of Surrey, United Kingdom, I would
> appreciate it if you would pass along this information. I would
> inform Dee Mills of this by letter to the Surrey, United Kingdom,
> local newspaper, but I'm at a loss to know what newspaper that would
> be. I suppose that can be marked down to being an American unaware of
> anything outside the United States.
Try the Surrey Advertiser.
http://www.surreyad.co.uk/
http://www.surreyad.co.uk/news/2012/2012000/contact_us
--
Skitt
well, just in case you were serious
Mike Lyle
Go on, Tony! Do it! It's a gamble whether that paper (I see it's based
in Guildford, and doesn't cover Richmond, but that doesn't help) has a
big enough circulation, but what the heck? Personally, I think any adult
who signs herself "Dee" is probably a twit (probably a strange
prejudice, but I can no other), but in this case we know that from other
evidence.
--
Mike.
--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com
contrex
wrote:
> Personally, I think any adult
> who signs herself "Dee" is probably a twit (probably a strange
> prejudice, but I can no other), but in this case we know that from other
> evidence.
No we don't. I'm with Dee on this; she sounds like an astute observer.
What does Yank arse taste like, Mike?
Sara Lorimer
> We can travel passportless to sunbathe on the sand, ski on snowy
> slopes, gawk at nature's wonders, wobble through museums and art
> galleries, and hear foreign languages spoken by the majority around
> us.
We can even visit some furrin countries without passports. (Not that we
would, because we don't know they exist.)
It looks like only around 21% of Americans have passports:
<http://www.travelagentcentral.com/travelagentcentral/article/articleDet
ail.jsp?id=75568>
...but what does that mean? I didn't have a passport for several years,
because I accidentally let mine expire, but I've spent years overseas. A
whole bunch o' Americans were originally from other countries, but might
not have passports at the moment. Just because an American doesn't
currently hold a valid passport doesn't mean they have never left the
country.
I think it's great when people travel. I think Americans, as a whole,
need more vacation time, and spending it traveling overseas would be
dandy. I don't think the "they don't even have passports!" rant is of
any use.
--
SML
so tell Dee "hi!" from me, too
Sara Lorimer
<http://travel.state.gov/passport/services/stats/stats_890.html>
So there are around 303,000,000 Americans, and 12,133,537 passports
issued last year... hmmm. Now I'm lost, because I can't figure out how
to account for passports being valid for ten years.
Do people in the military, and their dependents, need passports to
travel overseas?
--
SML
Unknown
>Today's _Orlando Sentinel_ contains a letter to the editor ("Reader
>Views", in this newspaper) from a Dee Mills of Surrey, United Kingdom,
>who says that: "We recently had a superb family holiday in Orlando"
>but then goes on for 3 column inches about how "grossly overweight"
>Americans are, how "fat adults wobble around Walt Disney World with
>their fat kids", and how mealtimes were "disgusting" because the
>people she observed "pack away as much food as possible".
>
>Dee Mills of Surrey, United Kingdom, then continues - non sequiturish,
>in my opinion - that "It's a well-known fact that the majority of
>Americans don't have a passport and have never traveled outside of the
>USA". More ranting about "totally ill-educated, arrogant, and unaware
>of anything outside the United States" Americans.
>
>While I am pleased that Dee Mills of Surrey, United Kingdom, had a
>superb family holiday in the area in which I live, and - though
>reasonably slim, myself - I can offer no defense against the charge of
>grossly overweight American's wobbling through the delights of the
>Magic Kingdom, or the disgusting eating habits (I think she was
>referring to volume consumed and not method of consumption) of
>Americans, I would like to point out to Dee Mills of Surrey, United
>Kingdom, that the majority of Americans don't need a passport.
>
>The majority of us can visit a Walt Disney theme park without ever
>crossing a border. If we are willing to settle for a holiday trip to
>a theme park less iconic than Disney, there are other theme parks
>scattered from "California to the New York island, From the redwood
>forest, to the gulf stream water". No passports required.
>
>Dee Mills of Surrey, United Kingdom should also know that the majority
>of Americans do not need a passport to change climate or scenery. We
>can drive to the mountains, to the beaches, to the desert, and to the
>forests without producing a government document. (However, if we fly
>to those destinations we must produce some document, and do so in our
>stocking feet)
>
>We can travel passportless to sunbathe on the sand, ski on snowy
>slopes, gawk at nature's wonders, wobble through museums and art
>galleries, and hear foreign languages spoken by the majority around
>us.
>
>If you happen to know Dee Mills of Surrey, United Kingdom, I would
>appreciate it if you would pass along this information. I would
>inform Dee Mills of this by letter to the Surrey, United Kingdom,
>local newspaper, but I'm at a loss to know what newspaper that would
>be. I suppose that can be marked down to being an American unaware of
>anything outside the United States.
>>
OK, Tone. Breathe. Gently does it. In, out. Let's not hurry anything. Feeling better now?
Then you could try Skitts link to the dependable Surrey Advertiser, and thank your stars you don't have to live there; near JF.
DC. Two years in Guildford was enough. Mind, it has to be said though, Mericans *are* a bit podgy...
--
Vinny Burgoo
[snip strange prejudice]
>I'm with Dee on this; she sounds like an astute observer.
You'd have to be a very astute observer to spot the difference between
20 out of a 100 and 18 out of a 100. From the Web:
Within Surrey/Sussex the prevalence of obesity has been
estimated at 17.6% (SEPHO, 2005).
Florida has the 43rd highest level of adult obesity in the
nation at 19.9 percent
--
V
Belgium or The Indie - which will vanish first?
Eric Schwartz
> tony cooper <tony_co...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>
>> We can travel passportless to sunbathe on the sand, ski on snowy
>> slopes, gawk at nature's wonders, wobble through museums and art
>> galleries, and hear foreign languages spoken by the majority around
>> us.
>
> We can even visit some furrin countries without passports. (Not that we
> would, because we don't know they exist.)
I don't think that's true anymore. I know we used to have that
arrangement with Mexico and Canada, but it's over now; you need a
passport to re-enter the US from either of those countries, and I'm
fairly sure they require the same to enter from the US.
-=Eric
Eric Schwartz
> In alt.usage.english, contrex wrote:
>
> [snip strange prejudice]
>
>>I'm with Dee on this; she sounds like an astute observer.
>
> You'd have to be a very astute observer to spot the difference between
> 20 out of a 100 and 18 out of a 100. From the Web:
>
> Within Surrey/Sussex the prevalence of obesity has been
> estimated at 17.6% (SEPHO, 2005).
>
> Florida has the 43rd highest level of adult obesity in the
> nation at 19.9 percent
Yabbut... do we know if they were using the same definition of
"obesity" in both cases?
-=Eric
Vinny Burgoo
>Vinny Burgoo <hlu...@yahoo.co.uk> writes:
>> You'd have to be a very astute observer to spot the difference between
>> 20 out of a 100 and 18 out of a 100. From the Web:
>>
>> Within Surrey/Sussex the prevalence of obesity has been
>> estimated at 17.6% (SEPHO, 2005).
>>
>> Florida has the 43rd highest level of adult obesity in the
>> nation at 19.9 percent
>
>Yabbut... do we know if they were using the same definition of
>"obesity" in both cases?
Hey! Whose side are you on?
Eric Schwartz
Who, me? I have no side but the Truth. Or, if that fails, stirring
up the waters a bit.
-=Eric
John O'Flaherty
(Sara Lorimer) wrote:
>More passport statistics:
>
><http://travel.state.gov/passport/services/stats/stats_890.html>
>
>So there are around 303,000,000 Americans, and 12,133,537 passports
>issued last year... hmmm. Now I'm lost, because I can't figure out how
>to account for passports being valid for ten years.
I don't _know_, either, but fools rush in. Suppose that that rate
continues forever. There would be 121,335,370 after ten years, since
none would expire. Then in the tenth year, as many would expire from
the first year as would be newly issued. That would leave it at ~40%
of population.
The estimate might be partly invalidated because of people frequently
renewing early. Also, the number last year might be atypically high.
In fact, I think it was, because a change in law means you need a
passport to go anywhere, even to Mexico. There was some news about the
backlog they had due to the change in the rules.
>Do people in the military, and their dependents, need passports to
>travel overseas?
--
John
Robert Lieblich
>
> tony cooper <tony_co...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>
> > We can travel passportless to sunbathe on the sand, ski on snowy
> > slopes, gawk at nature's wonders, wobble through museums and art
> > galleries, and hear foreign languages spoken by the majority around
> > us.
>
> We can even visit some furrin countries without passports. (Not that we
> would, because we don't know they exist.)
Well, sure. It's getting back into the US that creates the problem.
>
> It looks like only around 21% of Americans have passports:
Mrs. Bob and I just got new ones. We hadn't needed one since our
sojourn in London almost six years ago, but we're planning a trip to
Canada -- where we've been several timnes without passport -- and, as
the result of changes in US Law, have to have passports to return to
the country.
[ ... ]
> I think it's great when people travel. I think Americans, as a whole,
> need more vacation time, and spending it traveling overseas would be
> dandy. I don't think the "they don't even have passports!" rant is of
> any use.
It doesn't prove anything. Tony does make a valid point -- with 3.5
million square miles to explore in the US, there's an awful lot of
domestic tourism possible. Also, the rapidly dropping dollar makes it
cheaper to stay home. A corollary result of the fall of the dollar
ought to be increases in the numbers of tourists coming here, but the
difficulty of obtaining a visa and the hostility encountered at the
border (I believe we've had some horror stories posted to this very
group) are causing them to stay away in droves.
Sara Lorimer
You don't need a passport yet, at least as far as Canada goes, but you
will soon if you're traveling by air.
--
SML
tony cooper
I have scanned the _Surrey Advertiser_, and I'm not impressed. One
page features a picture of their staff of 30-some. The _Orlando
Sentinel_ has more than 30-some people in their Environmental Services
Department alone. ((In other words, more than 30 people in charge of
emptying wastebaskets, replacing toilet paper rolls, and mopping up
spills in the lunchroom (bins, bog rolls, and canteen, to you)).
I think some of the 30 are ringers from the _Molesey News & Mail_ who
were just in the area for darts night at the Five and Lime in
Guildford.
Under Family Notices>Celebrations>Achievements there are no entries.
Nothing achieved of note in the entire of Surrey? Under "Occasions",
it's noted that Laura Tanner has achieved the status of "MACCA", but a
Googling cross-reference tells me that "MACCA" has some meaning
connected with "football" (your term, not mine) or Lady Heather
Mills-McCartney's pornographic pictures. Just what *has* Surrey's
Laura Tanner gone and done?
Under "Business", I see that "Biziwomen" are a growing force in
Surrey, but they don't really seem calendar material to me. The WI
grown up. There's some local football team called the "Dorking
Chicks" who are fighting the Mole Valley District Council over club
space. That brought on an STS attack and I'm humming "Chicks and
moles and geese keep a'dorking..." which is appropriate for the Surrey
without the fringe on top.
The local theatre is playing mostly American movies, with Michael
Moore's "Sicko" coming up. Dee Mills of Surrey, United Kingdom, will
be pleased if no Americans show up and try to wedge their fat asses
(American asses do not turn into arses just because they are
cross-pond) into the cinema seats but is not expected to make
comparisons to the NHS. The local book club is reading Hugh Laurie's
"The Gun Seller" and says "This novel is definatly recommended".
(What did Dee Mills of Surrey, United Kingdom, say about "uneducated"
Americans?)
"Fleetwood Bac" is booked in Farnborough at The Dugout. I assume this
cover band will attract students from Godalming College. If you
happen to go, I'd be delighted to reimburse you if you pick up a
Godalming College sweatshirt.
I did learn something at the newspaper's site, though. Eric Clapton,
Jimi Hendrix, The Who, and Elton John all started out on the
Ricky-Tick circuit. Now all I need to know is what the Ricky-Tick
circuit was.
Actually, this bit on the Ricky-Tick circuit is interesting.
http://www.surreyad.co.uk/news/2012/2012143/pictures_and_memorabilia_of_the_rickytick_required
It appears that there is, or was, someone named Bob McGrath who
preferred to called "Hogsnort Rupert".
Roland Hutchinson
Last year's count is probably abnormally high, because of recent changes
making making passports necessary for travel (e.g. to Canada or Mexico)
that did not previously require them. There was a big bulge of people all
of a sudden needing passports, and the system almost melted down trying to
supply them. I had to get a passport renewed in a hurry in the midst of
this -- and almost didn't make my trip.
--
Roland Hutchinson Will play viola da gamba for food.
NB mail to my.spamtrap [at] verizon.net is heavily filtered to
remove spam. If your message looks like spam I may not see it.
Peter Duncanson
Assuming that obesity is defined by a threshold, even if the
threshold is the same in England and Florida, the amount by
which obese individuals, on average, exceed the threshold may be
greater in Florida than in England, or vice versa.
--
Peter Duncanson, UK
(in alt.usage.english)
Roland Hutchinson
> Within Surrey/Sussex the prevalence of obesity has been
> estimated at 17.6% (SEPHO, 2005).
Oh, goody! Can we make this into a class issue somehow?
Mark Brader
> > I don't think that's true anymore. I know we used to have that
> > arrangement with Mexico and Canada, but it's over now; you need a
> > passport to re-enter the US from either of those countries, and I'm
> > fairly sure they require the same to enter from the US.
> You don't need a passport yet, at least as far as Canada goes, but you
> will soon if you're traveling by air.
That was correct last year. Passports have been required since January 23
for air travel from Canada to the US, except for NEXUS cardholders (i.e.
"pre-approved, low-risk travelers") and certain other specific groups
such as soldiers on active duty. (Think NATO, not invaders.)
This is to be extended to land and sea travel effective next January 31.
This is a US initiative; Canada is not requiring passports for people
entering Canada from the US who did not require them before, and indeed
has been lobbying against the changes since they were announced. However,
I would expect that if a US citizen arrived in Canada with a return air
ticket and no passport, the Canadian authorities would find it suspicious
enough to deny entry.
See:
http://www.cbp.gov/xp/cgov/travel/vacation/ready_set_go/
http://cbsa-asfc.gc.ca/media/facts-faits/060-eng.html
http://travel.state.gov/travel/cbpmc/cbpmc_2223.html
Note in any case that the original letter from Dee Mills said "don't have
a passport *and* have never traveled outside of the USA" (emphasis mine).
--
Mark Brader, Toronto | "I don't _want_ people using Linux for ideological
m...@vex.net | reasons. I think ideology sucks." -- Torvalds
My text in this article is in the public domain.
Robert Lieblich
>
> Vinny Burgoo wrote:
>
> > Within Surrey/Sussex the prevalence of obesity has been
>
> Oh, goody! Can we make this into a class issue somehow?
Like, you know, fat people got no class?
R H Draney
>
>tony cooper said:
>
>>Today's _Orlando Sentinel_ contains a letter to the editor ("Reader
>>Views", in this newspaper) from a Dee Mills of Surrey, United Kingdom,
>>who says that: "We recently had a superb family holiday in Orlando"
>>but then goes on for 3 column inches about how "grossly overweight"
>>Americans are, how "fat adults wobble around Walt Disney World with
>>their fat kids", and how mealtimes were "disgusting" because the
>>people she observed "pack away as much food as possible".
>>
>>Dee Mills of Surrey, United Kingdom, then continues - non sequiturish,
>>in my opinion - that "It's a well-known fact that the majority of
>>Americans don't have a passport and have never traveled outside of the
>>USA". More ranting about "totally ill-educated, arrogant, and unaware
>>of anything outside the United States" Americans.
>
>*are* a bit podgy...
Let it be noted in passing that Dee Mills of Surrey is drawing inferences from a
decidedly non-random sample...Walt Disney World is famouse as a tourist
destination for travelers of many lands...with this point in mind, it's not
possible to say with any certainty how the proportion of Americans within the
theme park compares with that of a similar group of people elsewhere within the
United States....
(And hey, the bill of fare itself enters into the equation...it would be
considerably more "disgusting" to watch someone pack away a corresponding
quantity of *English* food at a sitting)....r
--
"He come in the night when one sleep on a bed.
With a hand he have the basket and foods."
- David Sedaris explains the Easter rabbit
Unknown
>It doesn't prove anything. Tony does make a valid point -- with 3.5
>million square miles to explore in the US, there's an awful lot of
>domestic tourism possible. Also, the rapidly dropping dollar makes it
>cheaper to stay home. A corollary result of the fall of the dollar
>ought to be increases in the numbers of tourists coming here, but the
>difficulty of obtaining a visa and the hostility encountered at the
>border (I believe we've had some horror stories posted to this very
>group) are causing them to stay away in droves.
>>
OK, but to put this thing in context, we hear this 'most Americans don't have a passport'
thing a lot. It's supposed to suggest that USans have a parochial outlook and know nothing
of how people see life in the rest of the world - or the consequences of US international policies.
It's a bit like only playing sports nobody else plays, thus avoiding the national character-building
thrill of being knocked out of international competitions by countries nobody's ever heard of.
DC, still not working out the word-wrap thing
--
the Omrud
> If you happen to know Dee Mills of Surrey, United Kingdom, I would
> appreciate it if you would pass along this information. I would
> inform Dee Mills of this by letter to the Surrey, United Kingdom,
> local newspaper, but I'm at a loss to know what newspaper that would
> be. I suppose that can be marked down to being an American unaware of
> anything outside the United States.
It may take rather a long time to search, but somebody posted me a CD
with 25 million names and addresses on it. She might be on there
somewhere ...
--
David
the Omrud
Not at Tijuana - you just push through a turnstile and you're in
Mexico, without benefit of customs, immigration or other officaldom.
--
David
Father Ignatius
"Sara Lorimer" <que.sara....@gmail.com> wrote in
message
news:1i7xn4p.zcc0kjcjk6lyN%que.sara....@gmail.com...
> We can even visit some furrin countries without passports.
> (Not that we
> would, because we don't know they exist.)
Well, here's the thing. A medical technologist friend of
mine who works in blood transfusion just returned home from
visiting San Diego and reported that, at San Diego blood
banks, prospective donors are routinely asked, for
prophylactic reasons, whether they have travelled to Mexico
within the last <whatever time period>.
The point of the anecdote is that a study (presumably
provoked by failed prophylaxis, but I don't know) revealed
only 12% of the blood-bank personnel asking the questions
"knew" (whatever that means) that Mexico is the US's
immediate southern neighbour.
Father Ignatius
"Mark Brader" <m...@vex.net> wrote in message
news:13k9ul1...@corp.supernews.com...
> That was correct last year. Passports have been required
> since January 23
> for air travel from Canada to the US, except for NEXUS
> cardholders (i.e.
> "pre-approved, low-risk travelers") and certain other
> specific groups
> such as soldiers on active duty. (Think NATO, not
> invaders.)
Invaders will be expected to carry passports, of course.
the Omrud
In San Diego? You can catch a tram from San Diego to Mexico - how
could they not know it was there?
--
David
Athel Cornish-Bowden
> [ ... ]
> Not at Tijuana - you just push through a turnstile and you're in
> Mexico, without benefit of customs, immigration or other officaldom.
It is (or was, 10 years ago) much like that at Tecate, the next place
of any size along the border inland from Tijuana. I wasn't planning to
cross the border, because I hadn't brought any identification with me,
but I walked a bit too close to the crossing point for the likings of a
US Immigration Officer, who asked me whether I was planning to go into
Mexico. I said no, as I hadn't brought my passport with me. He said
that that would not be a problem, so I asked if it would be a problem
when I wanted to come back, and he said no. So I wandered around
Tecate, Mx. (a much nicer place than Tecate, Calif., incidentally) for
about half an hour before wandering back without providing any evidence
of who I was or of whether I was planning to overthrow the Government
of the USA by force or of anything else.
--
athel
Django Cat
> tony_cooper...@earthlink.net had it ...
tony cooper
Sure. And only 9% of the San Diego blood bank personnel knew that the
Pacific Ocean is the nearest large body of salt water.
Your factoid is the type that the J. Lodders would like to believe.
Peter Duncanson
<usenet...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>It may take rather a long time to search, but somebody posted me a CD
>with 25 million names and addresses on it. She might be on there
>somewhere ...
Bloody spamsters.
the Omrud
That's quite different from returning from Tijuana or El Paso (the
only two Mexican border crossings I'm familiar with), where there's
quite a throng and a proper US immigration process, albeit rather
less detailed than at New York or Chicago.
--
David
Father Ignatius
"tony cooper" <tony_co...@earthlink.net> wrote in
message news:q03bk3925re3vrd9k...@4ax.com...
Werl, not wishing to believe that my friend is a vapid and
irreflective purveyor of baseless gossip, I just phoned to
get further and better particulars, and the answer was that
I can see for myself when the conference proceedings (or
whatever. Booklet?) arrive. This "factoid" was reportedly
in a paper presented (by an American delegate, presumably)
to a recent (about a month ago) conference (or symposium, or
whatever) of the American Association of Blood Banks.
Father Ignatius
"the Omrud" <usenet...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:MPG.21af7ef9d...@news.ntlworld.com...
Well, prezackly. Even my friend, born and bred in Darkest
Africa, managed to track down the cheap tequila in Tijuana.
And, I may add, this anecdote provoked the recitation of
another, about US troops in early Desert Storm who were
delivered into The Great Outside, but did not know where.
We have discoursed before on the 25% (was it?) of Americans
who think that there is some big country out there called
Themiddleeast that should probably be bombed. This would
appear to be an example of that. Reportedly, they figured
tentatively that they were in Israel. They were in Saudi
Arabia. And they got lost.
Even given the US's apparently deliberate and informed
choice of waging war expensively (how much to toilet seats
in the Pentagon cost taxpayers?), this seems equally tough
to believe.
Back on topic, this would be an example of American
travelling without passports, I guess.
I must say, I'm looking forward to the responses, from Dee
and others, to Mr. Cooper's letter to the Surrey press. I
do hope they're published on the web, where we can all get
at them.
Peter Moylan
watch, with a special attachment on the wristband that will extend the
length of your penis.
--
Peter Moylan http://www.pmoylan.org
For an e-mail address, see my web page.
Father Ignatius
"Father Ignatius" <FatherI...@ANTISPAMananzi.co.za>
wrote in message
news:FLadnX0tQ-DYDtja...@saix.net...
> And, I may add, this anecdote provoked the recitation of
> another, about US troops in early Desert Storm who were
> delivered into The Great Outside, but did not know where.
> We have discoursed before on the 25% (was it?) of
> Americans who think that there is some big country out
> there called Themiddleeast that should probably be bombed.
> This would appear to be an example of that. Reportedly,
> they figured tentatively that they were in Israel. They
> were in Saudi Arabia. And they got lost.
Anticipating Mr. Cooper's reaction, I followed up on this
anecdote, too, and find that my friend was quoting "The
Kindness of Strangers: The Autobiography"
(http://www.amazon.com/Kindness-Strangers-Autobiography-Kate-Adie/dp/075531073X)
by Katie Adie
(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kate_Adie).
He says she was the BBC's Chief News Correspondent for
Desert Storm, and effectively "embedded" (as I think it was
not yet known) in the US armed forces.
While we were there, he recalled that the Executive Summary
of Desert Storm was lots of bombing followed by a rapid
advance by ground forces. This was expected, by the
Americans (who had presumably been holidaying without
passports all their lives), to take days, possibly on the
assumption that Kuwait was on the scale of, say, South
Dakota. They were reportedly therefore taken by surprise
when, mere hours later, it was all over. This was signalled
by encountered a National Guard force coming they other way.
which was initially assumed to be hostile. This led to a
discursion on the American propensity for friendly fire
going back to Korea, as taken for granted in so many
episodes of M*A*S*H, for example.
tony cooper
<FatherI...@ANTISPAMananzi.co.za> wrote:
I do not find it possible to believe that 88%, or even .0088%, of the
employees of a San Diego blood bank were unaware that Mexico is the
US's immediate southern neighbor.
What I do believe is that any survey question can be written in such a
way that misleading results occur. For example, if the question is
"Why do we ask donors if they have traveled to Mexico within the last
month?", and the expected answer is "Because Mexico is our nearest
neighbor to the south" or "Damned if I know", then your factoid is
possible.
I would also guess that it's entirely possible that 88% of the
employees of a San Diego blood bank are either first or second
generation Mexican immigrants.
I am not over-confident about the average American's knowledge of
world geography. However, this particular little bit of fabrication
defies all logic. San Diego County California is almost 30% Hispanic,
and their immediate origins were not Barcelona. You can damn near
*see* Mexico from a tall building in San Diego. It's not unreasonable
to assume that 88% of the adult residents of San Diego have been in
Mexico in the <whatever time period> and were not fooled into thinking
they were in a California theme park with a Mexican motif.
Someone has a firm grip on your leg.
Father Ignatius
"Peter Moylan" <pe...@DIESPAMMERSDIEpmoylan.org> wrote in
message news:13kb66i...@corp.supernews.com...
Mr. Omrud is referring, with quietly understated British
humour, to a current news event that is big in the Yookay:
http://tinyurl.com/2ll3yl
Roland Hutchinson
Americans who own cars don't pay attention to public transportation.
R H Draney
>
>San Diego County California is almost 30% Hispanic,
>and their immediate origins were not Barcelona. You can damn near
>*see* Mexico from a tall building in San Diego.
Hell, I lived three years in an apartment where, if the TV wasn't on, you could
*hear* Mexico at ten o'clock every evening....
Because of the sister-city arrangement, it was helpful to know at least enough
Spanish to say "you have dialed the wrong phone number", even when half
asleep....
The thing that always surprised me, though, given the porous nature of the
border in that vicinity, was that Mexican drivers seemed utterly unaware of any
system of measures other than the metric; their speeds were routinely 30-35%
below the posted limit....r
LFS
Returning from Nogales, I had a moment of panic when the immigration
officer spotted that our passports had been stamped with the wrong date
when we arrived in the US a week earlier. One would not want to be
trapped in Nogales.
--
Laura
(emulate St. George for email)
LFS
<snigger>
Peter Moylan
There's something seriously fishy here. A great number of place names in
the area are of Spanish origin. ("San Diego", for example.) It's simply
not plausible that the locals would have failed to notice this.
On the gripping hand, I have to say this. The question of whether people
have passports is, for reasons mentioned elsethread, irrelevant.
Nevertheless, I have to say that my experience while living in the USA
was that the news media simply failed to notice that the rest of the
world existed. It has been said that the purpose of war is to teach
Americans geography, but I'm not sure that it works. It was eminently
clear at the time of the 9/11 attack that GWB had no idea that Iraq and
Iran were two separate countries, and that nobody had bothered to brief
him that Saddam Hussein was a US ally who acted as a buffer against
Iran. Osama bin Laden was a Saudi, therefore one of the oil-producing
countries had to be attacked.
Not that I'm blaming Bush for being a fuckwit. That's the way he was
born, and there's no real cure for it. I do blame the people who voted
for him. Some of them were intelligent, and should have known better.
Peter Duncanson
I can't help thinking that someone somewhere is busily creating
CDs holding 25 million names, addresses and bank account details
that are completely fake. They fakers could probably make a tidy
profit selling the CDs before anyone catches on.
Peter Moylan
Ah! Correction accepted. Sorry.
LFS
I suspect that telecom companies will also receive increased revenues.
The day before the news broke I had occasion to telephone a financial
institution. I abandoned the call after being kept on hold for ages.
Trying again the following day, the recorded message had been
considerably extended, warning callers that they would be asked for many
more security details than had previously been the case, suggesting that
they should ensure that they had all these to hand before proceeding
with the call and assuring them that security of information was the
organisation's highest priority.
Maria
> Sara Lorimer wrote:
>
>> More passport statistics:
>>
>> <http://travel.state.gov/passport/services/stats/stats_890.html>
>>
>> So there are around 303,000,000 Americans, and 12,133,537
>> passports
>> issued last year... hmmm. Now I'm lost, because I can't
>> figure out
>> how to account for passports being valid for ten years.
>>
>> Do people in the military, and their dependents, need
>> passports to
>> travel overseas?
>
> Last year's count is probably abnormally high, because of
> recent
> changes making making passports necessary for travel (e.g.
> to Canada
> or Mexico) that did not previously require them. There
> was a big
> bulge of people all of a sudden needing passports, and the
> system
> almost melted down trying to supply them. I had to get a
> passport
> renewed in a hurry in the midst of this -- and almost
> didn't make my
> trip.
Um, when will the requirement for a passport to go to Canada
become law?
Knowing I should already know this,
Maria
Resident of southeast Michigan, near Detroit.
Most recent crossing of the river into foreign territory:
Summer of 2007.
Mike Lyle
[...]
> said that that would not be a problem, so I asked if it would be a
> problem when I wanted to come back, and he said no. So I wandered
> around Tecate, Mx. (a much nicer place than Tecate, Calif.,
Musta bin one of them thar worm-holes I bin hearin about. Dee Mills will
be delighted to hear there's a superior Tecate in Middlesex.
--
Mike.
--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com
Garrett Wollman
R H Draney <dado...@spamcop.net> wrote:
>tony cooper filted:
>>
>>San Diego County California is almost 30% Hispanic,
>>and their immediate origins were not Barcelona. You can damn near
>>*see* Mexico from a tall building in San Diego.
>
>Hell, I lived three years in an apartment where, if the TV wasn't on, you could
>*hear* Mexico at ten o'clock every evening....
Or if the TV was on, and tuned to channels 6 or 13,[1] or the radio
was on, and tuned to 540,[1a] 690,[2] 1090,[3] 90.3,[4] 91.1,[5]
92.5,[6] or 98.9,[7] you could *hear* Mexico 24x7. The only way most
people would know would be the nightly rendition of the Mexican
national anthem at midnight, and the twice-hourly legal ID. San Diego
is the only border market in the U.S. which has more Mexican stations
broadcasting in English than American stations broadcasting in
Spanish.
-GAWollman
[1] Channel 6 is XETV Tijuana, the Fox (formerly ABC) affiliate.
Channel 13 is XHDTV Tecate, its co-owned My Network TV (formerly UPN)
affiliate.
[1a] XESURF, Saul Levine's toy, currently running classic country.
[2] XETRA, for many years an all-sports station, and prior to that the
first all-news station in the Los Angeles market, and prior to that a
"Top 40" station. It recently flipped back to Spanish after
broadcasting in English for 40 years.
[3] XEPRS, currently an all-sports station, which has changed
languages several times in the past few decades.
[4] XHITZ, urban AC "Z90.3".
[5] XETRA-FM, modern rock "91X".
[6] XHRM, Urban AC "Magic 92.5", formerly modern rock "the Flash".
[7] XHMORE, urban "Blazin' 98.9", formerly bilingual "MORE-FM".
--
Garrett A. Wollman | The real tragedy of human existence is not that we are
wol...@csail.mit.edu| nasty by nature, but that a cruel structural asymmetry
Opinions not those | grants to rare events of meanness such power to shape
of MIT or CSAIL. | our history. - S.J. Gould, Ten Thousand Acts of Kindness
Peter Duncanson
<la...@DRAGONspira.fsbusiness.co.uk> wrote:
>Peter Duncanson wrote:
>
>> On Thu, 22 Nov 2007 16:25:57 +0000, LFS
>> <la...@DRAGONspira.fsbusiness.co.uk> wrote:
>>
>>
>>>the Omrud wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>tony_co...@earthlink.net had it ...
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>If you happen to know Dee Mills of Surrey, United Kingdom, I would
>>>>>appreciate it if you would pass along this information. I would
>>>>>inform Dee Mills of this by letter to the Surrey, United Kingdom,
>>>>>local newspaper, but I'm at a loss to know what newspaper that would
>>>>>be. I suppose that can be marked down to being an American unaware of
>>>>>anything outside the United States.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>It may take rather a long time to search, but somebody posted me a CD
>>>>with 25 million names and addresses on it. She might be on there
>>>>somewhere ...
>>>>
>>>
>>><snigger>
>>
>>
>> I can't help thinking that someone somewhere is busily creating
>> CDs holding 25 million names, addresses and bank account details
>> that are completely fake. They fakers could probably make a tidy
>> profit selling the CDs before anyone catches on.
>>
>>
>
>
>I suspect that telecom companies will also receive increased revenues.
I see that some people among the 25 million have said that they
have changed their PINs. If their existing numbers had been too
easy to guess it is good that the numbers have been changed.
Otherwise it was a waste of time and effort because the PINs
have not leaked.
>The day before the news broke I had occasion to telephone a financial
>institution. I abandoned the call after being kept on hold for ages.
>Trying again the following day, the recorded message had been
>considerably extended, warning callers that they would be asked for many
>more security details than had previously been the case, suggesting that
>they should ensure that they had all these to hand before proceeding
>with the call and assuring them that security of information was the
>organisation's highest priority.
I had a different experience with a bank earlier today. I had
forgotten the PAC (personal access code) for online access to my
account.
The call was answered a second or two after the speech about
recording the conversation. There was no increase in security
questions. They routinely ask many questions. The bank seems to
take online and phone security more seriously than many other
high street banks. Certain actions require a one-time numeric
code from a Code Card supplied by the bank.
No system is completely foolproof, but this bank seems to try
harder.
R H Draney
>
>Returning from Nogales, I had a moment of panic when the immigration
>officer spotted that our passports had been stamped with the wrong date
>when we arrived in the US a week earlier. One would not want to be
>trapped in Nogales.
Better the Sonoran Nogales than the Arizonan, though, given what I've seen of
each....
(Been there half a dozen times and never spotted a single walnut)....r
R H Draney
>
>In article <fi49o...@drn.newsguy.com>,
>R H Draney <dado...@spamcop.net> wrote:
>>
>>Hell, I lived three years in an apartment where, if the TV wasn't on, you could
>>*hear* Mexico at ten o'clock every evening....
>
>Or if the TV was on, and tuned to channels 6 or 13,[1] or the radio
>was on, and tuned to 540,[1a] 690,[2] 1090,[3] 90.3,[4] 91.1,[5]
>92.5,[6] or 98.9,[7] you could *hear* Mexico 24x7.
No TV, no radio...shift-change whistle at the Agua Prieta stone quarry...you
have to be closer to the border for that than for megablaster broadcast
towers....r
CDB
[passports in America]
> Um, when will the requirement for a passport to go to Canada
> become law?
> Knowing I should already know this,
> Maria
> Resident of southeast Michigan, near Detroit.
> Most recent crossing of the river into foreign territory:
> Summer of 2007.
By the end of next year for land travel, apparently. But the latest
indications seem to be that the US is going to let you back in with
some sort of security-enhanced driver's licence*. I don't think we'll
be upping our own requirements in the near future: we've already
agreed to let the customs agents pack heat, and that's scary enough
for most of us.
Could be worse: could be tasers.
*Oh, you wanted *information* . We're covered: Ontario and several
other provinces are going to be producing the new licences soon:
http://www.thestar.com/comment/article/277231 .
And so are some of the states. Michigan isn't mentioned in this
article, but I imagine there'll be enough demand to justify the
effort.
http://canadianpress.google.com/article/ALeqM5gRxqi1Gz5grnCxGBTqGn-lPepGyA
http://tinyurl.com/38afp8
Richard Maurer
Django Cat wrote:
OK, but to put this thing in context, we hear this
'most Americans don't have a passport' thing a lot.
It's supposed to suggest that USans have a parochial
outlook and know nothing of how people see life
in the rest of the world - or the consequences
of US international policies.
Not quite the same thing, but how many Europeans have
traveled outside of Europe?
-- ---------------------------------------------
Richard Maurer To reply, remove half
Sunnyvale, California of a homonym of a synonym for also.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Skitt
> -- ---------------------------------------------
> Richard Maurer To reply, remove half
> Sunnyvale, California of a homonym of a synonym for also.
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
Just a note on your sig -- the the first line has to contain two hyphens and
a space after them, nothing else, for the sig to work properly.
--
Skitt
Vinny Burgoo
>Vinny Burgoo wrote:
>> Within Surrey/Sussex the prevalence of obesity has been
>> estimated at 17.6% (SEPHO, 2005).
>
>Oh, goody! Can we make this into a class issue somehow?
Thet would be super.
--
V
Belgium or The Indie - which will vanish first?
Sara Lorimer
> Mr. Omrud is referring, with quietly understated British
> humour, to a current news event that is big in the Yookay:
> http://tinyurl.com/2ll3yl
Big in the US, too. It was in my almost-local paper today:
<http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/nationworld/2004029096_records22.
html>
I was struck by two things: that all that information fit on two CDs,
and that having a kid gets you $38 a week from the government.
...but I'm really short on sleep and easily struck. Ouch.
--
SML
Unknown
>Django Cat wrote:
> OK, but to put this thing in context, we hear this
> 'most Americans don't have a passport' thing a lot.
> It's supposed to suggest that USans have a parochial
> outlook and know nothing of how people see life
> in the rest of the world - or the consequences
> of US international policies.
>
>
>Not quite the same thing, but how many Europeans have
>traveled outside of Europe?
>>
Not a lot, but that depends on where Europe is: it used to end at Berlin, unless you watched the
Eurovision Song Contest, in which case it was Tel Aviv. I know it's confusing, but despite years of
EU propaganda and 'ever-closer union' stuff - and I'm very pro-Europe - if I get on a boat and
travel 20 miles to France, that's definitely abroad. Significantly. People speak a different
language, drive on the other side of the road, eat different food. It's not like driving over the
state line into Nevada. But I'm sure if Brits could go skiing and sit on sub-tropical beaches here
in the UK, we'd never go anywhere else either; as it is, we need to go to Switzerland or Spain.
Frankly, if I had to sit for eight hours on an aeroplane to go anywhere that had the same stuff I
could find at home, I probably wouldn't bother either.
I love Morocco, and may be off there after Christmas. They tried to join the EU at one point,
proving that you don't actually have to be in Europe to be in Europe.
DC. Who ya gonna call, Henry?
--
Unknown
<pe...@DIESPAMMERSDIEpmoylan.org> wrote:
>Nevertheless, I have to say that my experience while living in the USA
>was that the news media simply failed to notice that the rest of the
>world existed.
I hear this a lot from Australians, who then go on to reveal that what
they refer to as "the news media" was a local TV channel in their
hotel room, and they were annoyed because they couldn't get cricket
results from Zimbabwe or some goddamn thing. I used to spout a similar
critique (sans the cricket scores) of the US (my native country and my
country of residence for 48 years) -- even before striking such poses
became a fashion accessory -- but after 15 years in Australia I can't
see a significant difference between the two countries in this
respect.
Most Australians I meet who think they know something about the US, it
turns out, have only ever visited Los Angeles and Las Vegas -- two of
the least representative cities on the continent. It's one of the
charming things about Australia.
It's instructive to ask an Australian how important Gallipoli was. To
most of the world, it wasn't. But it's all in what you mean by
"important", isn't it?
Ordinary people are interested in news that has some relevance to
their ordinary lives: I suspect it's the same everywhere. Political
and religious strife in Afghanistan or Mesopotamia had no relevance to
the great North American heartland until September 11, 2001. Why
should it have been otherwise, except in some utopian model republic?
I don't see greater focus by the Australian news media on "world
affairs" than was the norm in most of the US. It certainly makes sense
to me that the Australian ABC would want to talk more about, say,
Indonesia, than would the American ABC or CBS or NBC, given that
Indonesia is a huge and potentially hostile presence a few miles
offshore from a pathetic handful of non-Asian Aussies in the middle of
Asia. And it makes sense to me that a garage-door salesman in Wyoming
or Wisconsin has no real reason to know what or where Indonesia is.
It is true that you have to be in a major US city, or at least major
university town, to have access to foreign affairs publications and
other "intellectual" reading matter.
The history and political culture of Europe is critically different
from that of North America in that what one's neighbouring states are
up to has a great deal more significance in France or Germany or
Poland than it has in Iowa or South Dakota.
There are European immigrants in the US who live in large immigrant
communities and continue to discuss avidly the affairs of their native
lands, and read locally-published native-language papers, and use
native-language radio and television broadcasts. Because for them it
matters a great deal, and these "news media" are there for them. But
for the native population, what matters is local, not "over there."
Europeans naturally think that what goes on in Paris or Berlin is much
more important than what goes on in Seattle or Miami. But is it? It's
all about frame of reference, innit? None of us likes to think of
ourselves as "foreigners" -- but all of us are.
Oleg Lego
>*Oh, you wanted *information* . We're covered: Ontario and several
>other provinces are going to be producing the new licences soon:
>http://www.thestar.com/comment/article/277231 .
Interesting. Good to see some sanity emerging.
I did notice an interesting statement in the story. Is someone at the
Star unsure of the grammar, or am I missing something.
"Fewer than half of Canadians have passports, and less than a third of
Americans."
Nick Spalding
on Thu, 22 Nov 2007 20:12:45 GMT:
>
> Django Cat wrote:
> OK, but to put this thing in context, we hear this
> 'most Americans don't have a passport' thing a lot.
> It's supposed to suggest that USans have a parochial
> outlook and know nothing of how people see life
> in the rest of the world - or the consequences
> of US international policies.
>
>
> Not quite the same thing, but how many Europeans have
> traveled outside of Europe?
Judging from the travel agents' advertisements for Thailand, and other
places East of Suez, plenty.
--
Nick Spalding
the Omrud
> Richard Maurer said:
>
> >Not quite the same thing, but how many Europeans have
> >traveled outside of Europe?
>
> Not a lot, but that depends on where Europe is: it used to end at Berlin, unless you watched the
> Eurovision Song Contest, in which case it was Tel Aviv.
Eurovision is a club of TV companies (only one allowed per country)
whose common factor is that they belong to Eurovision. There's no
specific implication that the country is in Europe.
> I know it's confusing, but despite years of
> EU propaganda and 'ever-closer union' stuff - and I'm very pro-Europe - if I get on a boat and
> travel 20 miles to France, that's definitely abroad. Significantly.
I feel less and less abroad when in France and (to a lesser extent)
Germany. Madrid is still decidedly foreign though.
--
David
the Omrud
> Father Ignatius <FatherI...@ANTISPAMananzi.co.za> wrote:
>
> > Mr. Omrud is referring, with quietly understated British
> > humour, to a current news event that is big in the Yookay:
> > http://tinyurl.com/2ll3yl
>
> Big in the US, too. It was in my almost-local paper today:
> <http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/nationworld/2004029096_records22.
> html>
>
> I was struck by two things: that all that information fit on two CDs,
> and that having a kid gets you $38 a week from the government.
I know. Pathetic, ain't it. We should all have lived in France or
Spain where you get a proper amount of money from the state to spend
on booze to deaden the dreary life you have to live while you have
small children ...
--
David
Sara Lorimer
> que.sara....@gmail.com had it ...
>
> > I was struck by two things: that all that information fit on two CDs,
> > and that having a kid gets you $38 a week from the government.
>
> I know. Pathetic, ain't it. We should all have lived in France or
> Spain where you get a proper amount of money from the state to spend
> on booze to deaden the dreary life you have to live while you have
> small children ...
(packs bags)
--
SML
ĄHola!
Unknown
>> I know it's confusing, but despite years of
>> EU propaganda and 'ever-closer union' stuff - and I'm very pro-Europe - if I get on a boat and
>> travel 20 miles to France, that's definitely abroad. Significantly.
>
>I feel less and less abroad when in France and (to a lesser extent)
>Germany. Madrid is still decidedly foreign though.
>>
I know we've done this one before, but the most abroadist I've ever felt was in the USA.
DC
--
Roland Hutchinson
> Eurovision is a club of TV companies (only one allowed per country)
> whose common factor is that they belong to Eurovision. There's no
> specific implication that the country is in Europe.
Nor that they possess artistic vision of any kind.
--
Roland Hutchinson Will play viola da gamba for food.
NB mail to my.spamtrap [at] verizon.net is heavily filtered to
remove spam. If your message looks like spam I may not see it.
the Omrud
> the Omrud wrote:
>
> > Eurovision is a club of TV companies (only one allowed per country)
> > whose common factor is that they belong to Eurovision. There's no
> > specific implication that the country is in Europe.
>
> Nor that they possess artistic vision of any kind.
Actually, I think that's against the rules.
--
David
CDB
[recovering our equanimity]
> I did notice an interesting statement in the story. Is someone at
> the Star unsure of the grammar, or am I missing something.
> "Fewer than half of Canadians have passports, and less than a third
> of Americans."
Indeed. Inelegant variation, or just a huddled mass, perhaps.
Robert Bannister
> proving that you don't actually have to be in Europe to be in Europe.
That's nobody's business but the Turks'.
--
Rob Bannister
Robert Bannister
> Father Ignatius <FatherI...@ANTISPAMananzi.co.za> wrote:
>
>
>>Mr. Omrud is referring, with quietly understated British
>>humour, to a current news event that is big in the Yookay:
>>http://tinyurl.com/2ll3yl
>
>
> Big in the US, too. It was in my almost-local paper today:
> <http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/nationworld/2004029096_records22.
> html>
>
> I was struck by two things: that all that information fit on two CDs,
I heard some sort of English spokesman on the radio saying that it
could, in fact, be fitted onto something about the size of a wristwatch.
--
Rob Bannister
Peter Duncanson
Yes, a thin ladies wristwatch 3.2 x 2.5 x 0.2 centimeters (1 1/4
x 3/4 x 1/16 inches) in size.
Otherwise known as an SD Data Card for digital cameras and other
devices. Those with the largest capacity can store considerably
more than the contents of two CDs.
tony cooper
<pe...@DIESPAMMERSDIEpmoylan.org> wrote:
>>>> It may take rather a long time to search, but somebody posted me
>>>> a CD with 25 million names and addresses on it. She might be on
>>>> there somewhere ...
>>>>
>>> If you're into that sort of thing, I can sell you a genuine fake
>>> Rolex watch, with a special attachment on the wristband that will
>>> extend the length of your penis.
>>
>> Mr. Omrud is referring, with quietly understated British humour, to a
>> current news event that is big in the Yookay:
>> http://tinyurl.com/2ll3yl
>
>Ah! Correction accepted. Sorry.
I often read - and did in tonight's reading of posts in aue - that
American news ignores the world outside of the US borders. Yet, I
caught Mr Omrud's comment because I had read about the CD in my local
newspaper. There was no coverage in the _Orlando Sentinel_ on Reigate
Priory F.C.'s chances in the coming Surrey Senior Cup competition, but
we do get some news from beyond our borders.
--
Tony Cooper
Orlando, FL
Father Ignatius
"tony cooper" <tony_co...@earthlink.net> wrote in
message news:4ihck3haq33v8ob33...@4ax.com...
> I often read - and did in tonight's reading of posts in
> aue - that
> American news ignores the world outside of the US borders.
Yes, this seems to be true. Fex, my friend who recently
went to San Diego (which is near Mexico) reported just last
night many instances of being asked "Where do you come
from?" Replying "South Africa" led only to the follow-up
question "Yes, but which country?"
This engenders great confidence in us that the US will be
able to do The Right Thing if the question ever arises of SA
having WMD, say.
Note for students of irony: that wasn't irony; it was
sarcasm.
Roland Hutchinson
Tom Lehrer had some choice, if now thankfully obsolete, words on the
subject, I seem to recall.
> Note for students of irony: that wasn't irony; it was
> sarcasm.
Uh huh.
Father Ignatius
"Roland Hutchinson" <my.sp...@verizon.net> wrote in
message news:5qn3o5F...@mid.individual.net...
> Father Ignatius wrote:
>
>> "tony cooper" <tony_co...@earthlink.net> wrote in
>> message
>> news:4ihck3haq33v8ob33...@4ax.com...
>>
>>> I often read - and did in tonight's reading of posts in
>>> aue - that
>>> American news ignores the world outside of the US
>>> borders.
>>
>> Yes, this seems to be true. Fex, my friend who recently
>> went to San Diego (which is near Mexico) reported just
>> last
>> night many instances of being asked "Where do you come
>> from?" Replying "South Africa" led only to the follow-up
>> question "Yes, but which country?"
>>
>> This engenders great confidence in us that the US will be
>> able to do The Right Thing if the question ever arises of
>> SA
>> having WMD, say.
>
> Tom Lehrer had some choice, if now thankfully obsolete,
> words on the
Assumption^
Perhaps you should have trailed your coat by using the word
"hopefully" instead.
> subject, I seem to recall.
"I say a bygone should be a bygone -
Let's make peace the way we did in Stanleyville and
Saigon."
tony cooper
<FatherI...@ANTISPAMananzi.co.za> wrote:
>
>"tony cooper" <tony_co...@earthlink.net> wrote in
>message news:4ihck3haq33v8ob33...@4ax.com...
>
>> I often read - and did in tonight's reading of posts in
>> aue - that
>> American news ignores the world outside of the US borders.
>
>Yes, this seems to be true. Fex, my friend who recently
>went to San Diego (which is near Mexico) reported just last
>night many instances of being asked "Where do you come
>from?" Replying "South Africa" led only to the follow-up
>question "Yes, but which country?"
Wouldn't that be a failing in knowledge of geography and not a failing
of news reporting? If a US news report stated that "They're rioting
in South Africa", the news report would be covering an
outside-of-our-borders news item, but the American who then wonders
"But in which country?" would be suffering from geographical knowledge
insufficiency.
I like your friend Fex. He has an ear for a good story. I hope he
was able to dine out in San Diego with tales of the tokoloshe.
tony cooper
<FatherI...@ANTISPAMananzi.co.za> wrote:
>
>"Roland Hutchinson" <my.sp...@verizon.net> wrote in
>message news:5qn3o5F...@mid.individual.net...
>> Father Ignatius wrote:
>>
>>> "tony cooper" <tony_co...@earthlink.net> wrote in
>>> message
>>> news:4ihck3haq33v8ob33...@4ax.com...
>>>
>>>> I often read - and did in tonight's reading of posts in
>>>> aue - that
>>>> American news ignores the world outside of the US
>>>> borders.
>>>
>>> Yes, this seems to be true. Fex, my friend who recently
>>> went to San Diego (which is near Mexico) reported just
>>> last
>>> night many instances of being asked "Where do you come
>>> from?" Replying "South Africa" led only to the follow-up
>>> question "Yes, but which country?"
>>>
>>> This engenders great confidence in us that the US will be
>>> able to do The Right Thing if the question ever arises of
>>> SA
>>> having WMD, say.
>>
>> Tom Lehrer had some choice, if now thankfully obsolete,
>> words on the
Or, MacColl and Seeger in "White Wind, Black Tide".
> Assumption^
>
>Perhaps you should have trailed your coat by using the word
>"hopefully" instead.
>
>> subject, I seem to recall.
>
> "I say a bygone should be a bygone -
> Let's make peace the way we did in Stanleyville and
>Saigon."
Or,
Father Ignatius
> On Fri, 23 Nov 2007 06:22:39 +0200, "Father Ignatius"
> <FatherI...@ANTISPAMananzi.co.za> wrote:
>
>>
>>"tony cooper" <tony_co...@earthlink.net> wrote in
>>message news:4ihck3haq33v8ob33...@4ax.com...
>>
>>> I often read - and did in tonight's reading of posts in
>>> aue - that
>>> American news ignores the world outside of the US
>>> borders.
>>
>>Yes, this seems to be true. Fex, my friend who recently
>>went to San Diego (which is near Mexico) reported just
>>last
>>night many instances of being asked "Where do you come
>>from?" Replying "South Africa" led only to the follow-up
>>question "Yes, but which country?"
>
> Wouldn't that be a failing in knowledge of geography and
> not a failing
> of news reporting?
Are these not, at least to some extent, two sides of the
same coin? This side of the pond, the news reporting
informs one's knowledge of geography. For example, I never
heard of Darfur at school.
> If a US news report stated that "They're rioting
> in South Africa", the news report would be covering an
> outside-of-our-borders news item, but the American who
> then wonders
> "But in which country?" would be suffering from
> geographical knowledge
> insufficiency.
Yes, sure - geographical knowledge insufficiency induced, in
part, by news reporting insufficiency. Is there some
unstated assumption here that geography is what you learn at
school?
> I like your friend Fex. He has an ear for a good story.
> I hope he
> was able to dine out in San Diego with tales of the
> tokoloshe.
Sssssh: don't spoil it - the idea was (this being
California) to parlay the tokoloshe into a new religion and
get rich quick on the tax breaks.
Nick Spalding
on Fri, 23 Nov 2007 10:22:15 +0200:
> Are these not, at least to some extent, two sides of the
> same coin? This side of the pond, the news reporting
> informs one's knowledge of geography. For example, I never
> heard of Darfur at school.
I doubt if many people outside Darfur, or at most the Sudan, had heard of
it either until the recent unpleasantness.
--
Nick Spalding
tony cooper
<FatherI...@ANTISPAMananzi.co.za> wrote:
>
>"tony cooper" <tony_co...@earthlink.net> wrote in
>message news:lbnck312f3g0mr5kr...@4ax.com...
>> On Fri, 23 Nov 2007 06:22:39 +0200, "Father Ignatius"
>> <FatherI...@ANTISPAMananzi.co.za> wrote:
>>
>Yes, sure - geographical knowledge insufficiency induced, in
>part, by news reporting insufficiency. Is there some
>unstated assumption here that geography is what you learn at
>school?
Oh, yes. I learned geography in school. I learned, and I continue to
learn about, the changes of place names in the news.
Wood Avens
(Sara Lorimer) wrote:
>Father Ignatius <FatherI...@ANTISPAMananzi.co.za> wrote:
>
>> Mr. Omrud is referring, with quietly understated British
>> humour, to a current news event that is big in the Yookay:
>> http://tinyurl.com/2ll3yl
>
>Big in the US, too. It was in my almost-local paper today:
><http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/nationworld/2004029096_records22.
>html>
>
> I was struck by two things: that all that information fit on two CDs,
>and that having a kid gets you $38 a week from the government.
>
I was struck by the fact that a list of these kids and their parents
adds up to 25 million people, in a country with a population of 60
million or so. I had to think about it for a while before it became
remotely plausible.
--
Katy Jennison
spamtrap: remove the first two letters after the @
John Kane
> Father Ignatius wrote, in <_Y-dndyTb-9ZENvanZ2dnUVZ8rGdn...@saix.net>
Nonsense, it was quite famous in the late 19th Century when the Mahdi
was rampaging about. I refer you to " Fire and sword in the Sudan; a
personal narrative of fighting and serving the dervishes. 1879-1895."
by Rudolf Slatin (1896).
People may have forgotten it since then of course.
John Kane, Kingston ON Canada
John Kane
wrote:
> Father Ignatius <FatherIgnat...@ANTISPAMananzi.co.za> wrote:
> > Mr. Omrud is referring, with quietly understated British
> > humour, to a current news event that is big in the Yookay:
> >http://tinyurl.com/2ll3yl
>
> Big in the US, too. It was in my almost-local paper today:
> <http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/nationworld/2004029096_records22.
> html>
>
> I was struck by two things: that all that information fit on two CDs,
> and that having a kid gets you $38 a week from the government.
I was a child in the 1950's. Anyone with a child under 16 got the
Child Allowence. I don't remember what it was, not a lot but it
would have been meaningful for low income families.
I believe it was given to all families on the ground that any kind of
means testing would be far more costly than useful
CDB
[these are your lives]
>> I was struck by two things: that all that information fit on two
>> CDs, and that having a kid gets you $38 a week from the government.
> I don't think we still do it in Canada but it was certainly true
> when I was a child in the 1950's. Anyone with a child under 16 got
> the Child Allowence. I don't remember what it was, not a lot but
> it would have been meaningful for low income families.
> I believe it was given to all families on the ground that any kind
> of means testing would be far more costly than useful.
Called the "Family Allowance". It still exists under other headings
in a taxably deductible kind of way, but has been much kicked about by
politicians. Here is a longer account than anyone may want to read:
http://64.233.167.104/search?q=cache:Jf3Q_EsrB_EJ:www.thecanadianencyclopedia.com/
index.cfm%3FPgNm%3DTCE%26Params%3DA1ARTA
0002718+%22Family+allowance%22&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd
=2&gl=ca ;
http://tinyurl.com/2rchxb .
One thing I didn't see mentioned, which gave the FA an important
social effect in its time, is that the payments were made directly to
mothers, at a time when many women didn't have much
discretionary-spending--power.
Peter Duncanson
I've noticed noticably selective reporting in British
Rightpondia particularly on the subject of commercial aviation
problems: passenger planes being delayed for hours or days
because of the weather or other cause of congestion.
There was a time when this was happening (this year? last year?)
simultaneously in England, centered on London, Heathrow, and in
parts of the US.
British TV news featured the English problems -- heavily. This
included an industry figure complaining that "we will be the
laughing stock of the world". The US problems were not
mentioned.
In the US both ABC World News Tonight and CBS Evening News
mentioned the problems in England briefly but giving the
impression that they were of comparable severity to those in the
US.
Skitt
> Yes, sure - geographical knowledge insufficiency induced, in
> part, by news reporting insufficiency. Is there some
> unstated assumption here that geography is what you learn at
> school?
I did it in school.
--
Skitt
Nick Spalding
<1i7zdrv.d9awuhst0g7uN%que.sara....@gmail.com>
on Thu, 22 Nov 2007 13:10:30 -0800:
> Father Ignatius <FatherI...@ANTISPAMananzi.co.za> wrote:
>
> > Mr. Omrud is referring, with quietly understated British
> > humour, to a current news event that is big in the Yookay:
> > http://tinyurl.com/2ll3yl
>
> Big in the US, too. It was in my almost-local paper today:
> <http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/nationworld/2004029096_records22.
> html>
>
> I was struck by two things: that all that information fit on two CDs,
> and that having a kid gets you $38 a week from the government.
>
> ...but I'm really short on sleep and easily struck. Ouch.
Ireland is even more generous. I have just been talking to my elder
daughter who has two boys, 10 and 14, for which she gets EUR40 per week
apiece, about $60. A third or subsequent child yields more but she
doesn't know how much.
--
Nick Spalding
the Omrud
I've been worrying about that as well. Only one parent is named as
the collector of child benefit, and it's almost exclusively the
mother, so the database should contain:
Everybody - childless adults - parents/2
There is very roughly one million people per year of age. Take an
average of age 20 - 50 for when people have children under 20 and 80
for age of death.
60 - 30 - 30/2 = 15
It's not that close. I wonder if they are counting both parents on
the grounds that many of the bank accounts will be joint.
--
David
Robin Bignall
I've read that in families where there are children all members
of the family, including grandparents and adult siblings, are on
the system.
--
Robin
Herts, England
HVS
> wood...@askjennison.com had it ...
>
>> On Thu, 22 Nov 2007 13:10:30 -0800,
>> que.sara....@gmail.com (Sara Lorimer) wrote:
>>
>>> Father Ignatius <FatherI...@ANTISPAMananzi.co.za> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Mr. Omrud is referring, with quietly understated British
>>>> humour, to a current news event that is big in the Yookay:
>>>> http://tinyurl.com/2ll3yl
>>>
>>> Big in the US, too. It was in my almost-local paper today:
>>> <http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/nationworld/2004029096_r
>>> ecords22. html>
>>>
>>> I was struck by two things: that all that information fit on
>>> two CDs, and that having a kid gets you $38 a week from the
>>> government.
>>>
>>
>> I was struck by the fact that a list of these kids and their
>> parents adds up to 25 million people, in a country with a
>> population of 60 million or so. I had to think about it for a
>> while before it became remotely plausible.
>
> I've been worrying about that as well. Only one parent is named
> as the collector of child benefit, and it's almost exclusively
> the mother, so the database should contain:
>
> Everybody - childless adults - parents/2
>
> There is very roughly one million people per year of age. Take
> an average of age 20 - 50 for when people have children under 20
> and 80 for age of death.
>
> 60 - 30 - 30/2 = 15
>
> It's not that close. I wonder if they are counting both parents
> on the grounds that many of the bank accounts will be joint.
Unless I'm misunderstangin, though,, that calculation assumes that
the data base was listing only the person receiving the benefit.
(?)
As I understand it, it also included the names of all the children
-- so your figure for 15 million parents of potential CB-receiving
age needs only an average of .67 children each to generate 25
million names.
As a multiplier, that sounds not ridiculous.
--
Cheers, Harvey
CanEng and BrEng, indiscriminately mixed
Peter Duncanson
One report I read, possibly on a US website, mentioned 7.25
million families rather than 25 million people.
How accurate are the figures anyway, as they came, presumably,
from HMR&C?
Father Ignatius
"the Omrud" <usenet...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:MPG.21b16ebfc...@news.ntlworld.com...
You forgot to add duplications, mistakes, obsolete data and
illegal phantom parasites.
Father Ignatius
"Robin Bignall" <docr...@ntlworld.com> wrote in message
news:3doek3l1a4qn39i6o...@4ax.com...
>I was struck by the fact that a list of these kids and
>their parents
>adds up to 25 million people, in a country with a
>population of 60
>million or so. I had to think about it for a while before
>it became
>remotely plausible.
I've read that in families where there are children all
members
of the family, including grandparents and adult siblings,
are on
the system.
-----
Ah-ha! All those "grandmother's maiden name" government
forms finally come home to roost.
Maria
> Maria wrote:
>
> [passports in America]
>
>> Um, when will the requirement for a passport to go to
>> Canada
>> become law?
>
>> Knowing I should already know this,
>> Maria
>> Resident of southeast Michigan, near Detroit.
>> Most recent crossing of the river into foreign territory:
>> Summer of 2007.
>
> By the end of next year for land travel, apparently. But
> the latest
> indications seem to be that the US is going to let you
> back in with
> some sort of security-enhanced driver's licence*.
Thanks, O.L. I hadn't heard about the new license thing.
> .....I don't think we'll
> be upping our own requirements in the near future: we've
> already
> agreed to let the customs agents pack heat, and that's
> scary enough
> for most of us.
>
> Could be worse: could be tasers.
"Don't tase me, bro." (From a news item of some weeks ago.)
> *Oh, you wanted *information* . We're covered: Ontario
> and several
> other provinces are going to be producing the new licences
> soon:
> http://www.thestar.com/comment/article/277231 .
>
> And so are some of the states. Michigan isn't mentioned
> in this
> article, but I imagine there'll be enough demand to
> justify the
> effort.
> http://canadianpress.google.com/article/ALeqM5gRxqi1Gz5grnCxGBTqGn-lPepGyA
> http://tinyurl.com/38afp8
I imagine Ontario and Michigan will get together on
back-and-forth travel, which both the province and state
generally welcome (with all the necessary exceptions). Ditto
for the other bordering provinces/states.
--
Maria
Maria
> CDB wrote:
>> Maria wrote:
>>
>> [passports in America]
>>
>>> Um, when will the requirement for a passport to go to
>>> Canada
>>> become law?
>>
>>> Knowing I should already know this,
>>> Maria
>>> Resident of southeast Michigan, near Detroit.
>>> Most recent crossing of the river into foreign
>>> territory:
>>> Summer of 2007.
>>
>> By the end of next year for land travel, apparently. But
>> the latest
>> indications seem to be that the US is going to let you
>> back in with
>> some sort of security-enhanced driver's licence*.
>
> Thanks, O.L.
For "O.L." please substitute "C.D."
Not thinking well, or maybe just not thinking,
Maria
the Omrud
That wasn't my intention - the children are included in "Everybody".
But I didn't think about it very carefully and I still haven't.
--
David
the Omrud
I can't believe that. Firstly, it would break the Data Protection
Principles, but I can't see how it could be achieved. What
government system connects Wife to her parents? Furthermore, when we
applied for family allowance, I don't think I was named on the form.
--
David
Peter Duncanson
<ma...@peterduncanson.net> wrote:
>
>One report I read, possibly on a US website, mentioned 7.25
>million families rather than 25 million people.
Last night a British TV news report mentioned 7.5 million.
HVS
> On Sat, 24 Nov 2007 00:13:34 +0000, Peter Duncanson
><ma...@peterduncanson.net> wrote:
>
>>
>> One report I read, possibly on a US website, mentioned 7.25
>> million families rather than 25 million people.
>
> Last night a British TV news report mentioned 7.5 million.
But that's in Imperial Millions, innit.