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Mathematics, reading skills in unprecedented decline in teenagers
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useapen
Dec 7, 2023, 1:34:52 AM12/7/23
to
PARIS, Dec 5 (Reuters) - Teenagers' mathematics and reading skills are in
an unprecedented decline across dozens of countries and COVID school
closures are only partly to be blamed, the OECD said on Tuesday in its
latest survey of global learning standards.
The Paris-based Organisation for Economic Cooperation and Development said
it had seen some of the steepest drops in performance since 2000 when it
began its usually triennial tests of 15-year-olds reading, maths and
science skills.
Nearly 700,000 youths took the two-hour test last year in the OECD's 38
mostly developed country members and 44-non members for the latest study,
closely watched by policymakers as the largest international comparison of
education performance.
Compared to when the tests were last conducted in 2018, reading
performance fell by 10 points on average in OECD countries, and by 15
points in mathematics, a loss equivalent to three-quarters of a year's
worth of learning.
Reuters Graphics
While more than half of the 81 countries surveyed saw declines, Germany,
Iceland, the Netherlands, Norway and Poland saw particularly sharp drops
in mathematics scores, the OECD said.
On average across the OECD, one out of four 15-year-olds tested as a low
performer in maths, reading and science, which means they could not use
basic algorithms or interpret simple texts, the study found.
"COVID probably played some role but I would not overrate it," OECD
director of education Andreas Schleicher told a news conference.
"There are underlying structural factors and they are much more likely to
be permanent features of our education systems that policymakers should
really take seriously."
Countries that provided extra teacher support during COVID school closures
scored better and results were generally better in places where easy
teacher access for special help was high.
Poorer results tended to be associated with higher rates of mobile phone
use for leisure and where schools reported teacher shortages.
The OECD said the decline was not inevitable, pointing to Singapore, where
students scored the highest in maths, reading and science, with results
that suggested they were on average three to five years ahead of their
OECD peers.
After Singapore, Macau, Taiwan, Hong Kong, Japan and South Korea also
outperformed in maths and science, where Estonia and Canada also scored
well.
In reading, Ireland, Japan, South Korea and Taiwan earned top marks, and
was all the more notable in Ireland and Japan because their spending per
student was no higher than the OECD average.
https://www.reuters.com/world/mathematics-reading-skills-unprecedented-
decline-teenagers-oecd-survey-2023-12-05/
an unprecedented decline across dozens of countries and COVID school
closures are only partly to be blamed, the OECD said on Tuesday in its
latest survey of global learning standards.
The Paris-based Organisation for Economic Cooperation and Development said
it had seen some of the steepest drops in performance since 2000 when it
began its usually triennial tests of 15-year-olds reading, maths and
science skills.
Nearly 700,000 youths took the two-hour test last year in the OECD's 38
mostly developed country members and 44-non members for the latest study,
closely watched by policymakers as the largest international comparison of
education performance.
Compared to when the tests were last conducted in 2018, reading
performance fell by 10 points on average in OECD countries, and by 15
points in mathematics, a loss equivalent to three-quarters of a year's
worth of learning.
Reuters Graphics
While more than half of the 81 countries surveyed saw declines, Germany,
Iceland, the Netherlands, Norway and Poland saw particularly sharp drops
in mathematics scores, the OECD said.
On average across the OECD, one out of four 15-year-olds tested as a low
performer in maths, reading and science, which means they could not use
basic algorithms or interpret simple texts, the study found.
"COVID probably played some role but I would not overrate it," OECD
director of education Andreas Schleicher told a news conference.
"There are underlying structural factors and they are much more likely to
be permanent features of our education systems that policymakers should
really take seriously."
Countries that provided extra teacher support during COVID school closures
scored better and results were generally better in places where easy
teacher access for special help was high.
Poorer results tended to be associated with higher rates of mobile phone
use for leisure and where schools reported teacher shortages.
The OECD said the decline was not inevitable, pointing to Singapore, where
students scored the highest in maths, reading and science, with results
that suggested they were on average three to five years ahead of their
OECD peers.
After Singapore, Macau, Taiwan, Hong Kong, Japan and South Korea also
outperformed in maths and science, where Estonia and Canada also scored
well.
In reading, Ireland, Japan, South Korea and Taiwan earned top marks, and
was all the more notable in Ireland and Japan because their spending per
student was no higher than the OECD average.
https://www.reuters.com/world/mathematics-reading-skills-unprecedented-
decline-teenagers-oecd-survey-2023-12-05/
Peter Moylan
Dec 7, 2023, 3:15:06 AM12/7/23
to
On 07/12/23 17:31, useapen wrote:
> PARIS, Dec 5 (Reuters) - Teenagers' mathematics and reading skills
> are in an unprecedented decline across dozens of countries and COVID
> school closures are only partly to be blamed, the OECD said on
> Tuesday in its latest survey of global learning standards.
>
> The Paris-based Organisation for Economic Cooperation and
> Development said it had seen some of the steepest drops in
> performance since 2000 when it began its usually triennial tests of
> 15-year-olds reading, maths and science skills.
Here, this was reported as that Australia was back in the top 10. Then it
> PARIS, Dec 5 (Reuters) - Teenagers' mathematics and reading skills
> are in an unprecedented decline across dozens of countries and COVID
> school closures are only partly to be blamed, the OECD said on
> Tuesday in its latest survey of global learning standards.
>
> The Paris-based Organisation for Economic Cooperation and
> Development said it had seen some of the steepest drops in
> performance since 2000 when it began its usually triennial tests of
> 15-year-olds reading, maths and science skills.
was admitted that this was not because Australian results improved, but
because so many other countries had gone even further backwards.
See, you can turn any news into good news if you find the right angle.
--
Peter Moylan http://www.pmoylan.org
Newcastle, NSW
occam
Dec 7, 2023, 3:45:25 AM12/7/23
to
https://www.oecd.org/publication/pisa-2022-results#pisa2022results
I cannot find Australia on the league table.
Luxembourg, despite its very highly paid state teachers, is also missing
from the list. (We historically appear at the lower end of the table.)
D. Ray
Dec 7, 2023, 4:14:26 AM12/7/23
to
useapen <your...@outlook.com> wrote:
> "There are underlying structural factors and they are much more likely to
> be permanent features of our education systems that policymakers should
> really take seriously."
The factor is that since 2000 we got much more niggers and shitskins in our
> "There are underlying structural factors and they are much more likely to
> be permanent features of our education systems that policymakers should
> really take seriously."
public schools, and their quantity is only growing. Like it or not, there’s
direct link between demographics and education/crime/quality of life/etc.
It is “permanent feature” only according to those who want to make it a
permanent feature.
Hibou
Dec 7, 2023, 4:38:12 AM12/7/23
to
I hope they don't want to test my writing skills - which on an Android
keyboard are rubbish, since my thumbs - like most people's - cover
several keys, and it's hard to find their electrical centre.
But then, a five or six inch screen - bah! - that's keyhole surgery.
Give me a desktop PC.
Or a fountain pen. Refillable, green, easy to push over the paper (no
ball to roll)... and, with the light in the right direction, it's
pleasing to watch the ink changing from shiny wet to matt black....
Hibou
Dec 7, 2023, 4:41:35 AM12/7/23
to
Le 07/12/2023 à 09:09, D. Ray a écrit :
> useapen <your...@outlook.com> wrote:
>>
>> "There are underlying structural factors and they are much more likely to
>> be permanent features of our education systems that policymakers should
>> really take seriously."
>
> The factor is that since 2000 we got much more niggers and shitskins in our
> public schools, and their quantity is only growing. Like it or not, there’s
> direct link between demographics and education/crime/quality of life/etc.
... education, crime, quality of life, etc..
> useapen <your...@outlook.com> wrote:
>>
>> "There are underlying structural factors and they are much more likely to
>> be permanent features of our education systems that policymakers should
>> really take seriously."
>
> The factor is that since 2000 we got much more niggers and shitskins in our
> public schools, and their quantity is only growing. Like it or not, there’s
> direct link between demographics and education/crime/quality of life/etc.
Peeler
Dec 7, 2023, 5:10:13 AM12/7/23
to
On Thu, 07 Dec 23 09:09:22 UTC, Loose Sphincter, the unhappily married gay
neo-nazitard, now FORGING as D. Ray, whined again:
>> "There are underlying structural factors and they are much more likely to
>> be permanent features of our education systems that policymakers should
>> really take seriously."
>
> The factor is that since 2000 we got much more niggers and shitskins in our
> public schools, and their quantity is only growing. Like it or not, there’s
> direct link between demographics and education/crime/quality of life/etc.
There's no "our" for you, Loose Sphincter. NOBODY identifies with retarded
neo-nazi scum like you, either in school or out of school, you abysmally
stupid gay neo-nazi whore!
--
Anti-virus firm AVG <a...@avg.com> addressing Loose Sphincter on Usenet:
"Hello from AVG.
Please stop advertising us. We don't want to be associated with neo-Nazi
scum like you and RichA, no matter whether you use our product or not.
And fix your fucking sig separator!
Sincerely, AVG."
--
jdyoung about Loose Sphincter:
"Nary does a day pass that Nazi nutcase "Loose Cannon" isn't fantasizing
about bestiality. THIS is how his brain operates. ROFL!"
MID: <d071f20a-21f0-4826...@googlegroups.com>
neo-nazitard, now FORGING as D. Ray, whined again:
>> "There are underlying structural factors and they are much more likely to
>> be permanent features of our education systems that policymakers should
>> really take seriously."
>
> The factor is that since 2000 we got much more niggers and shitskins in our
> public schools, and their quantity is only growing. Like it or not, there’s
> direct link between demographics and education/crime/quality of life/etc.
neo-nazi scum like you, either in school or out of school, you abysmally
stupid gay neo-nazi whore!
--
Anti-virus firm AVG <a...@avg.com> addressing Loose Sphincter on Usenet:
"Hello from AVG.
Please stop advertising us. We don't want to be associated with neo-Nazi
scum like you and RichA, no matter whether you use our product or not.
And fix your fucking sig separator!
Sincerely, AVG."
--
jdyoung about Loose Sphincter:
"Nary does a day pass that Nazi nutcase "Loose Cannon" isn't fantasizing
about bestiality. THIS is how his brain operates. ROFL!"
MID: <d071f20a-21f0-4826...@googlegroups.com>
Peeler
Dec 7, 2023, 5:26:32 AM12/7/23
to
On Thu, 7 Dec 2023 09:37:33 +0000, Hibou wrote:
> Le 07/12/2023 à 09:09, D. Ray a écrit :
>> useapen <your...@outlook.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> "There are underlying structural factors and they are much more likely to
>>> be permanent features of our education systems that policymakers should
>>> really take seriously."
>>
>> The factor is that since 2000 we got much more niggers and shitskins in our
>> public schools, and their quantity is only growing. Like it or not, there’s
>> direct link between demographics and education/crime/quality of life/etc.
>
> ... education, crime, quality of life, etc..
LOL He's not the smartest among Usenet's notorious nazitards.
> Le 07/12/2023 à 09:09, D. Ray a écrit :
>> useapen <your...@outlook.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> "There are underlying structural factors and they are much more likely to
>>> be permanent features of our education systems that policymakers should
>>> really take seriously."
>>
>> The factor is that since 2000 we got much more niggers and shitskins in our
>> public schools, and their quantity is only growing. Like it or not, there’s
>> direct link between demographics and education/crime/quality of life/etc.
>
> ... education, crime, quality of life, etc..
J. J. Lodder
Dec 7, 2023, 12:33:38 PM12/7/23
to
useapen <your...@outlook.com> wrote:
[malicious cross-posting removed]
> PARIS, Dec 5 (Reuters) - Teenagers' mathematics and reading skills are in
> an unprecedented decline across dozens of countries and COVID school
> closures are only partly to be blamed, the OECD said on Tuesday in its
> latest survey of global learning standards.
>
> The Paris-based Organisation for Economic Cooperation and Development said
> it had seen some of the steepest drops in performance since 2000 when it
> began its usually triennial tests of 15-year-olds reading, maths and
> science skills.
>
> Nearly 700,000 youths took the two-hour test last year in the OECD's 38
> mostly developed country members and 44-non members for the latest study,
> closely watched by policymakers as the largest international comparison of
> education performance.
>
> Compared to when the tests were last conducted in 2018, reading
> performance fell by 10 points on average in OECD countries, and by 15
> points in mathematics, a loss equivalent to three-quarters of a year's
> worth of learning.
Yes, ironic, isn't?
Fifty years ago progressive mathematicians felt that all those abstract
mathematics problems were far too difficult for the kiddies.
They should be taught math problems like simple sums
packaged in common language, about shopping lists or fuel gauges.
Now they find that even packaged math problems have become to difficult,
because the kiddies lack the comprehensive reading skills
to understand the common language packaged problems...
Jan
[malicious cross-posting removed]
> PARIS, Dec 5 (Reuters) - Teenagers' mathematics and reading skills are in
> an unprecedented decline across dozens of countries and COVID school
> closures are only partly to be blamed, the OECD said on Tuesday in its
> latest survey of global learning standards.
>
> The Paris-based Organisation for Economic Cooperation and Development said
> it had seen some of the steepest drops in performance since 2000 when it
> began its usually triennial tests of 15-year-olds reading, maths and
> science skills.
>
> Nearly 700,000 youths took the two-hour test last year in the OECD's 38
> mostly developed country members and 44-non members for the latest study,
> closely watched by policymakers as the largest international comparison of
> education performance.
>
> Compared to when the tests were last conducted in 2018, reading
> performance fell by 10 points on average in OECD countries, and by 15
> points in mathematics, a loss equivalent to three-quarters of a year's
> worth of learning.
Fifty years ago progressive mathematicians felt that all those abstract
mathematics problems were far too difficult for the kiddies.
They should be taught math problems like simple sums
packaged in common language, about shopping lists or fuel gauges.
Now they find that even packaged math problems have become to difficult,
because the kiddies lack the comprehensive reading skills
to understand the common language packaged problems...
Jan
Athel Cornish-Bowden
Dec 7, 2023, 1:22:55 PM12/7/23
to
distinguished reviewer, Keith Dalziel, in Nature, I think, wrote that
it was OK, but far too elementary for his students. 17 years later I
made a proposal for a 2nd edition. The publisher (Oxford University
Press) asked four referees to have a look at the 1st edition. With one
voice they said that it was OK, but far too advanced for the students
starting biochemistry courses. I asked one or two people myself, one
them a lecturer at Oxford: he said that one wouldn't believe how low
was the basic mathematics level of students being admitted to science
courses at Oxford were; for example, he said, most of them had no idea
what fractions were. As a result I included a chapter on fractions to
the 2nd edition. I also asked my daughter, then 16, what she thought of
the result. She said that the book seemed very simple. That was in
1999, and I doubt whether matters have improved much since. At that
time mathematics teaching in France was much more serious than in the
UK (both, of course, far more advanced than what passes for teaching in
the USA). However, as the article referred to above mentions, the
standard in France has fallen dramatically. That is very sad, as there
was a time, not all that long ago, when France and the USSR were the
go-to places for learning mathematics. We have a Chilean colleague, a
professional mathematician, who studied in France because it was the
best place to go. My daughter spent a period in the mathematics
department of the University of Chile, hoping that talking every day in
Spanish with people other than her mother would be good for her
conversational Spanish. Unfortunately, however, everyone in the
department had studied in France, and thought that she provided an
opportunity to practise their French.
--
Athel -- French and British, living in Marseilles for 36 years; mainly
in England until 1987.
D. Ray
Dec 7, 2023, 1:25:59 PM12/7/23
to
Hibou <vpaereru-u...@yahoo.com.invalid> wrote:
> Le 07/12/2023 à 09:09, D. Ray a écrit :
>> useapen <your...@outlook.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> "There are underlying structural factors and they are much more likely to
>>> be permanent features of our education systems that policymakers should
>>> really take seriously."
>>
>> The factor is that since 2000 we got much more niggers and shitskins in our
>> public schools, and their quantity is only growing. Like it or not, there’s
>> direct link between demographics and education/crime/quality of life/etc.
>
> ... education, crime, quality of life, etc..
As far as I know, using slash is acceptable to indicate the word “or” in
> Le 07/12/2023 à 09:09, D. Ray a écrit :
>> useapen <your...@outlook.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> "There are underlying structural factors and they are much more likely to
>>> be permanent features of our education systems that policymakers should
>>> really take seriously."
>>
>> The factor is that since 2000 we got much more niggers and shitskins in our
>> public schools, and their quantity is only growing. Like it or not, there’s
>> direct link between demographics and education/crime/quality of life/etc.
>
> ... education, crime, quality of life, etc..
informal writing.
If that’s your only objection, let’s leave it at that.
Peeler
Dec 7, 2023, 1:49:15 PM12/7/23
to
On Thu, 07 Dec 23 18:25:54 UTC, Loose Sphincter, the unhappily married gay
neo-nazi head, Loose Sphincter?
> If that’s your only objection, let’s leave it at that.
Too late, Loose Sphincter, you already left an "impression"! LOL
neo-nazitard, now FORGING as D. Ray, whined again:
>>> The factor is that since 2000 we got much more niggers and shitskins in our
>>> public schools, and their quantity is only growing. Like it or not, there’s
>>> direct link between demographics and education/crime/quality of life/etc.
>>
>> ... education, crime, quality of life, etc..
>
> As far as I know, using slash is acceptable to indicate the word “or” in
> informal writing.
What DO you "know" other than the sick neo-nazi crap inside your sick
>>> public schools, and their quantity is only growing. Like it or not, there’s
>>> direct link between demographics and education/crime/quality of life/etc.
>>
>> ... education, crime, quality of life, etc..
>
> As far as I know, using slash is acceptable to indicate the word “or” in
> informal writing.
neo-nazi head, Loose Sphincter?
> If that’s your only objection, let’s leave it at that.
lar3ryca
Dec 7, 2023, 1:58:46 PM12/7/23
to
On 2023-12-07 02:35, occam wrote:
> On 07/12/2023 09:11, Peter Moylan wrote:
>> On 07/12/23 17:31, useapen wrote:
>>
>>> PARIS, Dec 5 (Reuters) - Teenagers' mathematics and reading skills
>>> are in an unprecedented decline across dozens of countries and COVID
>>> school closures are only partly to be blamed, the OECD said on
>>> Tuesday in its latest survey of global learning standards.
>>>
>>> The Paris-based Organisation for Economic Cooperation and
>>> Development said it had seen some of the steepest drops in
>>> performance since 2000 when it began its usually triennial tests of
>>> 15-year-olds reading, maths and science skills.
>>
>> Here, this was reported as that Australia was back in the top 10. Then it
>> was admitted that this was not because Australian results improved, but
>> because so many other countries had gone even further backwards.
>>
>> See, you can turn any news into good news if you find the right angle.
>>
>
> The Reuters article is based on the PISA report 2022.
>
> https://www.oecd.org/publication/pisa-2022-results#pisa2022results
Interesting page. I did a little exploring, and some results were
> On 07/12/2023 09:11, Peter Moylan wrote:
>> On 07/12/23 17:31, useapen wrote:
>>
>>> PARIS, Dec 5 (Reuters) - Teenagers' mathematics and reading skills
>>> are in an unprecedented decline across dozens of countries and COVID
>>> school closures are only partly to be blamed, the OECD said on
>>> Tuesday in its latest survey of global learning standards.
>>>
>>> The Paris-based Organisation for Economic Cooperation and
>>> Development said it had seen some of the steepest drops in
>>> performance since 2000 when it began its usually triennial tests of
>>> 15-year-olds reading, maths and science skills.
>>
>> Here, this was reported as that Australia was back in the top 10. Then it
>> was admitted that this was not because Australian results improved, but
>> because so many other countries had gone even further backwards.
>>
>> See, you can turn any news into good news if you find the right angle.
>>
>
> The Reuters article is based on the PISA report 2022.
>
> https://www.oecd.org/publication/pisa-2022-results#pisa2022results
surprising.
> I cannot find Australia on the league table.
Australia is the third entry in the list on the left. It shows one of
the surprising results I mentioned; the two dips below the 23-country
average of the '15-year old tests'in the math section. What happened
between 2015 and 2019 (approximately)?
> Luxembourg, despite its very highly paid state teachers, is also missing
> from the list. (We historically appear at the lower end of the table.)
2009, in reading and math. What happened there at that time?
Others that are strange, with widely varying results are Norway, Poland,
Sweden, and more.
What, to me, was unsurprising, was Canada's ranking in the same tests.
One of the presenters on the morning news program on CTV is basically
semi-literate. He graduated from a Sports Journalism program at a
college in Toronto in 2020. This morning's performance included several
instances; "hap'birthday", "more sunnier" "as we make our way into Friday".
--
YY U R
YY U B
I C U R
YY 4 me
Jerry
Dec 7, 2023, 3:31:49 PM12/7/23
to
On 07 Dec 2023, occam <oc...@erewhon.nix> posted some
news:uks04o$16pru$1...@dont-email.me:
Some teachers teach, others preach social BS.
Because of teacher unions, American kids are some of the dumbest on the
planet. All they know how to do is play with smart phones and click
'like' on social media. Heaven forbid the lazy slugs should be able to
read and write well enough to to fill out a job application.
news:uks04o$16pru$1...@dont-email.me:
Because of teacher unions, American kids are some of the dumbest on the
planet. All they know how to do is play with smart phones and click
'like' on social media. Heaven forbid the lazy slugs should be able to
read and write well enough to to fill out a job application.
Jerry
Dec 7, 2023, 3:36:30 PM12/7/23
to
On 07 Dec 2023, Peter Moylan <pe...@pmoylan.org.invalid> posted some
news:ukrun2$16ing$1...@dont-email.me:
> On 07/12/23 17:31, useapen wrote:
>
>> PARIS, Dec 5 (Reuters) - Teenagers' mathematics and reading skills
>> are in an unprecedented decline across dozens of countries and COVID
>> school closures are only partly to be blamed, the OECD said on
>> Tuesday in its latest survey of global learning standards.
>>
>> The Paris-based Organisation for Economic Cooperation and
>> Development said it had seen some of the steepest drops in
>> performance since 2000 when it began its usually triennial tests of
>> 15-year-olds reading, maths and science skills.
>
> Here, this was reported as that Australia was back in the top 10. Then
> it was admitted that this was not because Australian results improved,
> but because so many other countries had gone even further backwards.
Liberalism is an infectious disease and needs to be eradicated.
> See, you can turn any news into good news if you find the right angle.
Indeed.
I work with a bunch of Aussies daily. Got to see Maxine on HGTV a couple
nights ago. Clever girl and good for the eyes too.
https://scontent-lax3-2.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.6435-
9/66624340_2476973845922516_5228997514648092672_n.jpg?_nc_cat=107&ccb=1-
7&_nc_sid=c2f564&_nc_ohc=hirFOXWQYwcAX_2DDBz&_nc_ht=scontent-lax3-
2.xx&oh=00_AfA93jyPdEiNPqzuKIWm4ANzhJpYM6dnZ09uE2Mm-VTcfQ&oe=6599960E
news:ukrun2$16ing$1...@dont-email.me:
> On 07/12/23 17:31, useapen wrote:
>
>> PARIS, Dec 5 (Reuters) - Teenagers' mathematics and reading skills
>> are in an unprecedented decline across dozens of countries and COVID
>> school closures are only partly to be blamed, the OECD said on
>> Tuesday in its latest survey of global learning standards.
>>
>> The Paris-based Organisation for Economic Cooperation and
>> Development said it had seen some of the steepest drops in
>> performance since 2000 when it began its usually triennial tests of
>> 15-year-olds reading, maths and science skills.
>
> Here, this was reported as that Australia was back in the top 10. Then
> it was admitted that this was not because Australian results improved,
> but because so many other countries had gone even further backwards.
> See, you can turn any news into good news if you find the right angle.
I work with a bunch of Aussies daily. Got to see Maxine on HGTV a couple
nights ago. Clever girl and good for the eyes too.
https://scontent-lax3-2.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.6435-
9/66624340_2476973845922516_5228997514648092672_n.jpg?_nc_cat=107&ccb=1-
7&_nc_sid=c2f564&_nc_ohc=hirFOXWQYwcAX_2DDBz&_nc_ht=scontent-lax3-
2.xx&oh=00_AfA93jyPdEiNPqzuKIWm4ANzhJpYM6dnZ09uE2Mm-VTcfQ&oe=6599960E
The Obama Disaster
Dec 7, 2023, 4:15:06 PM12/7/23
to
In article <fCkydykCAIksFxuI...@news.usenet.farm>
an individual should be considered unrecoverable and tossed into a
vat of molten steel.
> It is “permanent feature†only according to those who want to
because of his skin color. Had he been evaluated on his ethics and
principles, the door would have slammed shut on approach.
>
> useapen <your...@outlook.com> wrote:
>
>> "There are underlying structural factors and they are much more
likely to
>> be permanent features of our education systems that policymakers
should
>> really take seriously."
>
> useapen <your...@outlook.com> wrote:
>
>> "There are underlying structural factors and they are much more
likely to
>> be permanent features of our education systems that policymakers
should
>> really take seriously."
>
> The factor is that since 2000 we got much more niggers and
shitskins in our
> public schools, and their quantity is only growing. Like it or
not, there’s
shitskins in our
> public schools, and their quantity is only growing. Like it or
> direct link between demographics and education/crime/quality of
life/etc.
At the first utterance of woke, D.E.I. or social justice stupidity,
life/etc.
an individual should be considered unrecoverable and tossed into a
vat of molten steel.
> It is “permanent feature†only according to those who want to
make it a
> permanent feature.
It was set in motion the moment some morons elected Barack Obama
> permanent feature.
because of his skin color. Had he been evaluated on his ethics and
principles, the door would have slammed shut on approach.
Silvano
Dec 7, 2023, 4:40:18 PM12/7/23
to
Athel Cornish-Bowden hat am 07.12.2023 um 19:22 geschrieben:
> In 1982 I wrote a book called Basic Mathematics for Biochemists. A
> distinguished reviewer, Keith Dalziel, in Nature, I think, wrote that it
> was OK, but far too elementary for his students. 17 years later I made a
> proposal for a 2nd edition. The publisher (Oxford University Press)
> asked four referees to have a look at the 1st edition. With one voice
> they said that it was OK, but far too advanced for the students starting
> biochemistry courses. I asked one or two people myself, one them a
> lecturer at Oxford: he said that one wouldn't believe how low was the
> basic mathematics level of students being admitted to science courses at
> Oxford were; for example, he said, most of them had no idea what
> fractions were.
What??? Students entering a university who have no idea what fractions
are??? I learnt them at elementary school!
> In 1982 I wrote a book called Basic Mathematics for Biochemists. A
> distinguished reviewer, Keith Dalziel, in Nature, I think, wrote that it
> was OK, but far too elementary for his students. 17 years later I made a
> proposal for a 2nd edition. The publisher (Oxford University Press)
> asked four referees to have a look at the 1st edition. With one voice
> they said that it was OK, but far too advanced for the students starting
> biochemistry courses. I asked one or two people myself, one them a
> lecturer at Oxford: he said that one wouldn't believe how low was the
> basic mathematics level of students being admitted to science courses at
> Oxford were; for example, he said, most of them had no idea what
> fractions were.
are??? I learnt them at elementary school!
Peter Moylan
Dec 7, 2023, 6:20:18 PM12/7/23
to
On 08/12/23 05:22, Athel Cornish-Bowden wrote:
>
> In 1982 I wrote a book called Basic Mathematics for Biochemists. A
> distinguished reviewer, Keith Dalziel, in Nature, I think, wrote that
> it was OK, but far too elementary for his students. 17 years later I
> made a proposal for a 2nd edition. The publisher (Oxford University
> Press) asked four referees to have a look at the 1st edition. With
> one voice they said that it was OK, but far too advanced for the
> students starting biochemistry courses. I asked one or two people
> myself, one them a lecturer at Oxford: he said that one wouldn't
> believe how low was the basic mathematics level of students being
> admitted to science courses at Oxford were; for example, he said,
> most of them had no idea what fractions were. As a result I included
> a chapter on fractions to the 2nd edition. I also asked my daughter,
> then 16, what she thought of the result. She said that the book
> seemed very simple. That was in 1999, and I doubt whether matters
> have improved much since. At that time mathematics teaching in France
> was much more serious than in the UK (both, of course, far more
> advanced than what passes for teaching in the USA). However, as the
> article referred to above mentions, the standard in France has fallen
> dramatically. That is very sad, as there was a time, not all that
> long ago, when France and the USSR were the go-to places for learning
> mathematics. We have a Chilean colleague, a professional
> mathematician, who studied in France because it was the best place to
> go.
Over the course of my academic career I noticed that first-year
>
> In 1982 I wrote a book called Basic Mathematics for Biochemists. A
> distinguished reviewer, Keith Dalziel, in Nature, I think, wrote that
> it was OK, but far too elementary for his students. 17 years later I
> made a proposal for a 2nd edition. The publisher (Oxford University
> Press) asked four referees to have a look at the 1st edition. With
> one voice they said that it was OK, but far too advanced for the
> students starting biochemistry courses. I asked one or two people
> myself, one them a lecturer at Oxford: he said that one wouldn't
> believe how low was the basic mathematics level of students being
> admitted to science courses at Oxford were; for example, he said,
> most of them had no idea what fractions were. As a result I included
> a chapter on fractions to the 2nd edition. I also asked my daughter,
> then 16, what she thought of the result. She said that the book
> seemed very simple. That was in 1999, and I doubt whether matters
> have improved much since. At that time mathematics teaching in France
> was much more serious than in the UK (both, of course, far more
> advanced than what passes for teaching in the USA). However, as the
> article referred to above mentions, the standard in France has fallen
> dramatically. That is very sad, as there was a time, not all that
> long ago, when France and the USSR were the go-to places for learning
> mathematics. We have a Chilean colleague, a professional
> mathematician, who studied in France because it was the best place to
> go.
university subjects in mathematics, physics, and chemistry were being
dumbed down. It wasn't just my university, it seemed to be happening
everywhere. Nobody wanted to admit it, but because I had a large
collection of old faculty handbooks I could see the gradual change over
time of subject descriptions.
Part of this was inevitable. When I was at school, very few of us stayed
in school right to the final year. Thus, the last couple of years of
school subjects were aimed at those who hoped to go to university, or
something comparable like Teachers' College. Gradually this switched to
a system where even the kids who couldn't tie their shoe laces went all
the way to the final school year. The only way to cope with this was to
dumb down the school subjects.
Another problem was that the people who ran the teacher training
institutions engaged in empire building, and produced too many
graduates. The result was a lot of unemployed teachers, which meant that
teaching was unattractive as a career choice. For a while the teacher
trainees were the ones who couldn't get acceptance into anything else.
We had a couple of generations of teachers whose competence in the three
Rs was abysmal. There were some good teachers, but not enough of them.
> My daughter spent a period in the mathematics department of the
> University of Chile, hoping that talking every day in Spanish with
> people other than her mother would be good for her conversational
> Spanish. Unfortunately, however, everyone in the department had
> studied in France, and thought that she provided an opportunity to
> practise their French.
didn't. The people I was visiting were too fluent in English. Every time
I stumbled over a French word, everyone switched to English. What
finally improved my French was a short period in Paris, alone,
surrounded by people who knew little or no English.
You've reminded me that I should speak to my daughter about this. Her
bilingual upbringing means that her French is far better than mine, but
for some reason she never speaks French to her own children. That's a
real pity.
Elmo
Dec 7, 2023, 8:24:52 PM12/7/23
to
iggles
Dec 7, 2023, 9:54:34 PM12/7/23
to
albasani freedyne now es faggot <el...@protonmail.com> wrote in
news:uktr8v$1feck$1...@dont-email.me:
Good luck selling your shit sandwiches on street corners.
Academic proficiency plummeted in 2022 to among the lowest on record
following the coronavirus school shutdowns, and children in Democrat-run
states where teachers union demands led to extended school shutdowns
bore the brunt, data released Monday from a national test known as the
“nation’s report card” showed.
The National Assessment of Educational Progress (NAEP) is administered
to fourth and eighth graders every few years, allowing for a comparison
of reading and math proficiency by state between 2019 — just before the
pandemic — and 2022. The decline in math scores was the sharpest ever
since the test began in 1990, and the average math scores were the
lowest since 2005. The average eighth grade reading score was the lowest
since 1998.
news:uktr8v$1feck$1...@dont-email.me:
Academic proficiency plummeted in 2022 to among the lowest on record
following the coronavirus school shutdowns, and children in Democrat-run
states where teachers union demands led to extended school shutdowns
bore the brunt, data released Monday from a national test known as the
“nation’s report card” showed.
The National Assessment of Educational Progress (NAEP) is administered
to fourth and eighth graders every few years, allowing for a comparison
of reading and math proficiency by state between 2019 — just before the
pandemic — and 2022. The decline in math scores was the sharpest ever
since the test began in 1990, and the average math scores were the
lowest since 2005. The average eighth grade reading score was the lowest
since 1998.
D. Ray
Dec 7, 2023, 10:35:49 PM12/7/23
to
Peeler <trol...@valid.invalid> wrote:
> On Thu, 07 Dec 23 18:25:54 UTC, Loose Sphincter, the unhappily married gay
> neo-nazitard, now FORGING as D. Ray, whined again:
>
>>>> The factor is that since 2000 we got much more niggers and shitskins in our
>>>> public schools, and their quantity is only growing. Like it or not, there´s
>>>> direct link between demographics and education/crime/quality of life/etc.
>>>
>>> ... education, crime, quality of life, etc..
>>
>> As far as I know, using slash is acceptable to indicate the word “or” in
>> informal writing.
>
> What DO you "know" other than the sick neo-nazi crap inside your sick
> neo-nazi head, Loose Sphincter?
>
>> If that´s your only objection, let´s leave it at that.
>
> Too late, Loose Sphincter, you already left an "impression"! LOL
“Impression” is left by Jews who always pop up every time anyone mentions
> On Thu, 07 Dec 23 18:25:54 UTC, Loose Sphincter, the unhappily married gay
> neo-nazitard, now FORGING as D. Ray, whined again:
>
>>>> The factor is that since 2000 we got much more niggers and shitskins in our
>>>> public schools, and their quantity is only growing. Like it or not, there´s
>>>> direct link between demographics and education/crime/quality of life/etc.
>>>
>>> ... education, crime, quality of life, etc..
>>
>> As far as I know, using slash is acceptable to indicate the word “or” in
>> informal writing.
>
> What DO you "know" other than the sick neo-nazi crap inside your sick
> neo-nazi head, Loose Sphincter?
>
>> If that´s your only objection, let´s leave it at that.
>
> Too late, Loose Sphincter, you already left an "impression"! LOL
demographics. For some reason diversity is really important to them.
Any idea why?
Hibou
Dec 8, 2023, 1:11:08 AM12/8/23
to
Le 07/12/2023 à 18:25, D. Ray a écrit :
You ended your list with "etc.", /et/ cetera, which suggests you meant
'and' not 'or'. Far better, then, to write either 'or' or 'and' and be
clear.
> If that’s your only objection, let’s leave it at that.
It isn't - but I doubt your capacity to understand the other one.
> Hibou wrote:
>> Le 07/12/2023 à 09:09, D. Ray a écrit :
>>> useapen <your...@outlook.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> "There are underlying structural factors and they are much more likely to
>>>> be permanent features of our education systems that policymakers should
>>>> really take seriously."
>>>
>>> The factor is that since 2000 we got much more niggers and shitskins in our
>>> public schools, and their quantity is only growing. Like it or not, there’s
>>> direct link between demographics and education/crime/quality of life/etc.
>>
>> ... education, crime, quality of life, etc..
>
> As far as I know, using slash is acceptable to indicate the word “or” in
> informal writing.
Acceptable to whom? Not to me.
>> Le 07/12/2023 à 09:09, D. Ray a écrit :
>>> useapen <your...@outlook.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> "There are underlying structural factors and they are much more likely to
>>>> be permanent features of our education systems that policymakers should
>>>> really take seriously."
>>>
>>> The factor is that since 2000 we got much more niggers and shitskins in our
>>> public schools, and their quantity is only growing. Like it or not, there’s
>>> direct link between demographics and education/crime/quality of life/etc.
>>
>> ... education, crime, quality of life, etc..
>
> As far as I know, using slash is acceptable to indicate the word “or” in
> informal writing.
You ended your list with "etc.", /et/ cetera, which suggests you meant
'and' not 'or'. Far better, then, to write either 'or' or 'and' and be
clear.
> If that’s your only objection, let’s leave it at that.
Hibou
Dec 8, 2023, 1:42:43 AM12/8/23
to
Governor Swill
Dec 8, 2023, 3:14:08 AM12/8/23
to
On Thu, 7 Dec 2023 20:31:44 -0000 (UTC), Jerry <jmc@_imt.biz> wrote:
>Some teachers teach, others preach social BS.
>
>Because of teacher unions, American kids are some of the dumbest on the
>planet. All they know how to do is play with smart phones and click
>'like' on social media. Heaven forbid the lazy slugs should be able to
>read and write well enough to to fill out a job application.
I take it your teachers were all in the Union?
>Some teachers teach, others preach social BS.
>
>Because of teacher unions, American kids are some of the dumbest on the
>planet. All they know how to do is play with smart phones and click
>'like' on social media. Heaven forbid the lazy slugs should be able to
>read and write well enough to to fill out a job application.
Swill
--
"I don't want everybody to vote. As a matter of fact, our leverage in
the elections quite candidly goes up as the voting populace goes down."
- Paul Weyrich, co founder of Heritage Foundation and Moral Majority
Not left, not right, https://www.forwardparty.com/
Heroyam slava! Glory to the Heroes!
Sláva Ukrajíni! Glory to Ukraine!
Putin tse prezervatyv! Putin is a condom!
Go here to donate to Ukrainian relief.
<https://www2.deloitte.com/ua/uk/pages/registration-forms/help-cities.html>
Governor Swill
Dec 8, 2023, 3:18:55 AM12/8/23
to
Hibou
Dec 8, 2023, 3:19:33 AM12/8/23
to
It would be reasonable to suggest that large waves of immigration could
affect pupils' collective results. If the immigrants don't speak the
local language, that would affect reading, writing, and comprehension,
and have a secondary effect on other subjects, such as mathematics.
There's also culture. I understand that education is highly prized in
parts of the Orient, for example, so Asians often outperform Whites.
This is about the programming of the brain, not about colour. With her
consent, any man could impregnate any woman, so under the skin we are
almost homogeneous. We are not a ring species, for example, genetically
compatible only with our near neighbours.
To know whether immigration is having this effect, deeper study is
necessary - to look under the bonnet of the figures, to see what is
going on under pupils' bonnets. (This petit jeu de mots does not
translate into AmE.)
Silvano
Dec 8, 2023, 3:33:24 AM12/8/23
to
Peter Moylan hat am 08.12.2023 um 00:20 geschrieben:
husband? Which is her husband's first language? How important is French
in her environment?
Living in Germany with a German wife, I spoke Italian to my children,
but by the time they were three they had found out that I can understand
German and started answering me only in German. I tried to resist, but
after a couple of years I had mostly switched to German. Now they can
manage in Italy, but their Italian is far below my German.
A female colleague of mine with a mirror experience had much better
results, but they spent six weeks a year in Italy with several relatives
whose children are more or less as old as her own. Much more inspiring
than three or four weeks a year talking Italian only to my old mother
and a few other children on the beach or the playing ground.
> You've reminded me that I should speak to my daughter about this. Her
> bilingual upbringing means that her French is far better than mine, but
> for some reason she never speaks French to her own children. That's a
> real pity.
Where does your daughter live? Which language does she speak with her
> bilingual upbringing means that her French is far better than mine, but
> for some reason she never speaks French to her own children. That's a
> real pity.
husband? Which is her husband's first language? How important is French
in her environment?
Living in Germany with a German wife, I spoke Italian to my children,
but by the time they were three they had found out that I can understand
German and started answering me only in German. I tried to resist, but
after a couple of years I had mostly switched to German. Now they can
manage in Italy, but their Italian is far below my German.
A female colleague of mine with a mirror experience had much better
results, but they spent six weeks a year in Italy with several relatives
whose children are more or less as old as her own. Much more inspiring
than three or four weeks a year talking Italian only to my old mother
and a few other children on the beach or the playing ground.
Peeler
Dec 8, 2023, 4:15:10 AM12/8/23
to
On Fri, 08 Dec 23 03:35:42 UTC, Loose Sphincter, the unhappily married gay
impression! My motto is, just let the thing talk, and the neo-nazi pig will
come to the fore ...inevitably! LOL
neo-nazitard, now FORGING as D. Ray, whined again:
>> What DO you "know" other than the sick neo-nazi crap inside your sick
>> neo-nazi head, Loose Sphincter?
>>
>>> If that´s your only objection, let´s leave it at that.
>>
>> Too late, Loose Sphincter, you already left an "impression"! LOL
>
> “Impression” is left by Jews who always pop up every time anyone mentions
> demographics. For some reason diversity is really important to them.
>
> Any idea why?
And you abysmally stupid gay neo-nazi shithead CONTINUE making a "certain"
>> neo-nazi head, Loose Sphincter?
>>
>>> If that´s your only objection, let´s leave it at that.
>>
>> Too late, Loose Sphincter, you already left an "impression"! LOL
>
> “Impression” is left by Jews who always pop up every time anyone mentions
> demographics. For some reason diversity is really important to them.
>
> Any idea why?
impression! My motto is, just let the thing talk, and the neo-nazi pig will
come to the fore ...inevitably! LOL
Kerr-Mudd, John
Dec 8, 2023, 4:24:18 AM12/8/23
to
--
Bah, and indeed Humbug.
Athel Cornish-Bowden
Dec 8, 2023, 4:25:59 AM12/8/23
to
In Chile, and doubtless in other countries, it is common practice when
buying a large item like a dishwasher, to give the shop three cheques,
each for one-third of the price, and dated today, plus one and two
months ahead. Once a friend was buying such an item and and had already
written the three cheques by the time the shop assistant had finished
fiddling with her calculator. The shop assistant was impressed that she
could do such a complex calculation in her head.
Athel Cornish-Bowden
Dec 8, 2023, 4:32:05 AM12/8/23
to
On 2023-12-07 23:20:08 +0000, Peter Moylan said:
[ … ]
(and when the need arises she can make a stab at German and
Portuguese), but her children, now aged eight, can only speak French.
[ … ]
>
> You've reminded me that I should speak to my daughter about this. Her
> bilingual upbringing means that her French is far better than mine, but
> for some reason she never speaks French to her own children. That's a
> real pity.
I know the story. My daughter is completely and effortlessly trilingual
> You've reminded me that I should speak to my daughter about this. Her
> bilingual upbringing means that her French is far better than mine, but
> for some reason she never speaks French to her own children. That's a
> real pity.
(and when the need arises she can make a stab at German and
Portuguese), but her children, now aged eight, can only speak French.
Hibou
Dec 8, 2023, 5:02:58 AM12/8/23
to
Le 08/12/2023 à 09:25, Athel Cornish-Bowden a écrit :
>
> In Chile, and doubtless in other countries, it is common practice when
> buying a large item like a dishwasher, to give the shop three cheques,
> each for one-third of the price, and dated today, plus one and two
> months ahead. Once a friend was buying such an item and and had already
> written the three cheques by the time the shop assistant had finished
> fiddling with her calculator. The shop assistant was impressed that she
> could do such a complex calculation in her head.
Calculators have not been good for mental arithmetic. Will 'AI' have a
>
> In Chile, and doubtless in other countries, it is common practice when
> buying a large item like a dishwasher, to give the shop three cheques,
> each for one-third of the price, and dated today, plus one and two
> months ahead. Once a friend was buying such an item and and had already
> written the three cheques by the time the shop assistant had finished
> fiddling with her calculator. The shop assistant was impressed that she
> could do such a complex calculation in her head.
similar effect on other mental skills?
Peter Moylan
Dec 8, 2023, 5:20:43 AM12/8/23
to
On 08/12/23 20:25, Athel Cornish-Bowden wrote:
>
> In Chile, and doubtless in other countries, it is common practice
> when buying a large item like a dishwasher, to give the shop three
> cheques, each for one-third of the price, and dated today, plus one
> and two months ahead. Once a friend was buying such an item and and
> had already written the three cheques by the time the shop assistant
> had finished fiddling with her calculator. The shop assistant was
> impressed that she could do such a complex calculation in her head.
In the 1990s, I think it was, my children's school had a fundraising
>
> In Chile, and doubtless in other countries, it is common practice
> when buying a large item like a dishwasher, to give the shop three
> cheques, each for one-third of the price, and dated today, plus one
> and two months ahead. Once a friend was buying such an item and and
> had already written the three cheques by the time the shop assistant
> had finished fiddling with her calculator. The shop assistant was
> impressed that she could do such a complex calculation in her head.
deal with McDonalds where it got a percentage of the take on one certain
day. I overcame my dislike of the food to help the school. My wife and I
and our two children bought several items. When it was time for us to
leave, we were told that we couldn't pay just yet because the cash
register was down, so they had no way to add up the half-dozen or so
numbers. The cashier had what we owed written on a piece of paper. I
leant over the the counter and read the numbers (upside down!) and told
the cashier the total. "But how do I know you're not making that up?", she
asked. Not wanting to hang around, I insisted on the manager being
called. The manager didn't know how to check my arithmetic either.
The problem was finally settled when one of the other customers turned
out to have a pocket calculator.
Peter Moylan
Dec 8, 2023, 5:33:08 AM12/8/23
to
On 08/12/23 19:28, Silvano wrote:
> Peter Moylan hat am 08.12.2023 um 00:20 geschrieben:
>> You've reminded me that I should speak to my daughter about this.
>> Her bilingual upbringing means that her French is far better than
>> mine, but for some reason she never speaks French to her own
>> children. That's a real pity.
>
> Where does your daughter live? Which language does she speak with
> her husband? Which is her husband's first language? How important is
> French in her environment?
She lives in a suburb of Newcastle, and her husband speaks only English.
> Peter Moylan hat am 08.12.2023 um 00:20 geschrieben:
>> You've reminded me that I should speak to my daughter about this.
>> Her bilingual upbringing means that her French is far better than
>> mine, but for some reason she never speaks French to her own
>> children. That's a real pity.
>
> Where does your daughter live? Which language does she speak with
> her husband? Which is her husband's first language? How important is
> French in her environment?
French is not particularly important in this area. Still, I feel that
having another language, no matter how useless, is a good exercise for
the brain.
(I'm currently learning Irish. My wife sees that as a useless exercise,
given that I'm unlikely ever to meet a native speaker of Irish. But my
life experience tells me that, in the long run, there is nothing so
practical as learning pursued for its own sake.)
> Living in Germany with a German wife, I spoke Italian to my
> children, but by the time they were three they had found out that I
> can understand German and started answering me only in German. I
> tried to resist, but after a couple of years I had mostly switched to
> German. Now they can manage in Italy, but their Italian is far below
> my German.
from their mother. When they went to school, in an all-English
environment, they switched to replying only in English. Still, they had
enough fluency by then in both languages, and their French was
reinforced by trips to Belgium.
Athel Cornish-Bowden
Dec 8, 2023, 5:55:52 AM12/8/23
to
in 1987 neither of us could speak French well enough to use it
systematically, so our daughter heard only English from me and only
Spanish from my wife. She started going to infant school immediately,
and picked up French very fast (much faster than I did). By the time we
could speak French well enough she had understood that being trilingual
had advantages, and she was effortlessly trilingual when she was five.
We took her to England and Chile often enough to realize that her
parents were not the only people in the world who spoke these weird
languages.
Silvano
Dec 8, 2023, 6:00:39 AM12/8/23
to
Athel Cornish-Bowden hat am 08.12.2023 um 10:25 geschrieben:
> In Chile, and doubtless in other countries, it is common practice when
> buying a large item like a dishwasher, to give the shop three cheques,
> each for one-third of the price, and dated today, plus one and two
> months ahead.
Not in Germany, if only because the last time I saw a cheque here was in
2008.
Cash, credit/debit cards, bank transfers, installment payments (with
interests, therefore unattractive).
> In Chile, and doubtless in other countries, it is common practice when
> buying a large item like a dishwasher, to give the shop three cheques,
> each for one-third of the price, and dated today, plus one and two
> months ahead.
2008.
Cash, credit/debit cards, bank transfers, installment payments (with
interests, therefore unattractive).
Silvano
Dec 8, 2023, 6:03:33 AM12/8/23
to
Peter Moylan hat am 08.12.2023 um 11:20 geschrieben:
> I think it was, my children's school had a fundraising
> deal with McDonalds where it got a percentage of the take on one certain
> day. I overcame my dislike of the food to help the school. My wife and I
> and our two children bought several items. When it was time for us to
> leave, we were told that we couldn't pay just yet because the cash
> register was down, so they had no way to add up the half-dozen or so
> numbers. The cashier had what we owed written on a piece of paper. I
> leant over the the counter and read the numbers (upside down!) and told
> the cashier the total. "But how do I know you're not making that up?", she
> asked. Not wanting to hang around, I insisted on the manager being
> called. The manager didn't know how to check my arithmetic either.
>
> The problem was finally settled when one of the other customers turned
> out to have a pocket calculator.
Now most customers, the cashier and the manager could use their
smartphones.
> On 08/12/23 20:25, Athel Cornish-Bowden wrote:
>>
>> In Chile, and doubtless in other countries, it is common practice
>> when buying a large item like a dishwasher, to give the shop three
>> cheques, each for one-third of the price, and dated today, plus one
>> and two months ahead. Once a friend was buying such an item and and
>> had already written the three cheques by the time the shop assistant
>> had finished fiddling with her calculator. The shop assistant was
>> impressed that she could do such a complex calculation in her head.
>
> In the 1990s,
Oh my God!
>>
>> In Chile, and doubtless in other countries, it is common practice
>> when buying a large item like a dishwasher, to give the shop three
>> cheques, each for one-third of the price, and dated today, plus one
>> and two months ahead. Once a friend was buying such an item and and
>> had already written the three cheques by the time the shop assistant
>> had finished fiddling with her calculator. The shop assistant was
>> impressed that she could do such a complex calculation in her head.
>
> In the 1990s,
> I think it was, my children's school had a fundraising
> deal with McDonalds where it got a percentage of the take on one certain
> day. I overcame my dislike of the food to help the school. My wife and I
> and our two children bought several items. When it was time for us to
> leave, we were told that we couldn't pay just yet because the cash
> register was down, so they had no way to add up the half-dozen or so
> numbers. The cashier had what we owed written on a piece of paper. I
> leant over the the counter and read the numbers (upside down!) and told
> the cashier the total. "But how do I know you're not making that up?", she
> asked. Not wanting to hang around, I insisted on the manager being
> called. The manager didn't know how to check my arithmetic either.
>
> The problem was finally settled when one of the other customers turned
> out to have a pocket calculator.
smartphones.
Silvano
Dec 8, 2023, 6:09:54 AM12/8/23
to
Peter Moylan hat am 08.12.2023 um 11:32 geschrieben:
English is her main language to express emotions. Things are probably
different for your wife, even after all those years in Australia.
Does your wife speak French to her grandchildren or has she been
actively discouraged from doing so? I could have to solve this question
for myself in a couple of years.
> On 08/12/23 19:28, Silvano wrote:
>> Peter Moylan hat am 08.12.2023 um 00:20 geschrieben:
>
>>> You've reminded me that I should speak to my daughter about this.
>>> Her bilingual upbringing means that her French is far better than
>>> mine, but for some reason she never speaks French to her own
>>> children. That's a real pity.
>>
>> Where does your daughter live? Which language does she speak with
>> her husband? Which is her husband's first language? How important is
>> French in her environment?
>
> She lives in a suburb of Newcastle, and her husband speaks only English.
> French is not particularly important in this area. Still, I feel that
> having another language, no matter how useless, is a good exercise for
> the brain.
I fully agree with you, but I guess that while she may be bilingual,
>> Peter Moylan hat am 08.12.2023 um 00:20 geschrieben:
>
>>> You've reminded me that I should speak to my daughter about this.
>>> Her bilingual upbringing means that her French is far better than
>>> mine, but for some reason she never speaks French to her own
>>> children. That's a real pity.
>>
>> Where does your daughter live? Which language does she speak with
>> her husband? Which is her husband's first language? How important is
>> French in her environment?
>
> She lives in a suburb of Newcastle, and her husband speaks only English.
> French is not particularly important in this area. Still, I feel that
> having another language, no matter how useless, is a good exercise for
> the brain.
English is her main language to express emotions. Things are probably
different for your wife, even after all those years in Australia.
Does your wife speak French to her grandchildren or has she been
actively discouraged from doing so? I could have to solve this question
for myself in a couple of years.
Dingbat
Dec 8, 2023, 7:32:53 AM12/8/23
to
On Thursday, December 7, 2023 at 12:04:52 PM UTC+5:30, useapen wrote:
> PARIS, Dec 5 (Reuters) - Teenagers' mathematics and reading skills are in
> an unprecedented decline across dozens of countries and COVID school
> closures are only partly to be blamed, the OECD said on Tuesday in its
> latest survey of global learning standards.
>
> The Paris-based Organisation for Economic Cooperation and Development said
> it had seen some of the steepest drops in performance since 2000 when it
> began its usually triennial tests of 15-year-olds reading, maths and
> science skills.
>
> The OECD said the decline was not inevitable, pointing to Singapore, where
> PARIS, Dec 5 (Reuters) - Teenagers' mathematics and reading skills are in
> an unprecedented decline across dozens of countries and COVID school
> closures are only partly to be blamed, the OECD said on Tuesday in its
> latest survey of global learning standards.
>
> The Paris-based Organisation for Economic Cooperation and Development said
> it had seen some of the steepest drops in performance since 2000 when it
> began its usually triennial tests of 15-year-olds reading, maths and
> science skills.
>
> students scored the highest in maths, reading and science, with results
> that suggested they were on average three to five years ahead of their
> OECD peers.
>
ON AVERAGE is difficult to interpret. Perhaps they mean that the median
SIngaporean is 3 to 5 years ahead of their median OECD peer. But 3 TO 5
YEARS AHEAD too is hard to interpret. Does it mean that the Singaporean
15-year-old is competitive with an 18 to 20-year-olds elsewhere? If so,
how do they know that without testing students in that age range?
> <https://www.reuters.com/world/mathematics-reading-skills-unprecedented-decline-teenagers-oecd-survey-2023-12-05/>
Jerry Friedman
Dec 8, 2023, 9:50:50 AM12/8/23
to
This is called the one-parent-one-language (OPOL) model, and I've
heard it's fairly successful for getting children to grow up bilingual.
But as noted here, it would take a /lot/ of willpower if both parents
speak the local language.
--
Jerry Friedman
D. Ray
Dec 8, 2023, 11:36:31 AM12/8/23
to
aligning with skin tone map?
<https://assets.ourworldindata.org/uploads/2015/07/ourworldindata_average-iq-by-country-v2.png>
<https://web.archive.org/web/20160301135953/http://ourworldindata.org/data/education-knowledge/intelligence/>
> With her
> consent, any man could impregnate any woman, so under the skin we are
> almost homogeneous. We are not a ring species, for example, genetically
> compatible only with our near neighbours.
species?
> To know whether immigration is having this effect, deeper study is
> necessary
assume that mass legal and illegal immigration from countries with lower IQ
to countries with higher IQ will decrease average IQ in the latter ones.
Same as you can safely assume that countries with big populations of
negroes will have lower average IQ.
Peeler
Dec 8, 2023, 12:13:10 PM12/8/23
to
On Fri, 08 Dec 23 16:36:24 UTC, Loose Sphincter, the unhappily married gay
you miserable gay neo-nazi whore? <VBG>
--
jdyoung about Loose Sphincter:
"Nary does a day pass that Nazi nutcase "Loose Cannon" isn't fantasizing
about bestiality. THIS is how his brain operates. ROFL!"
MID: <d071f20a-21f0-4826...@googlegroups.com>
neo-nazitard, now FORGING as D. Ray, whined again:
>> Still, let's have a go.
>>
>> It would be reasonable to suggest that large waves of immigration could
>> affect pupils' collective results. If the immigrants don't speak the
>> local language, that would affect reading, writing, and comprehension,
>> and have a secondary effect on other subjects, such as mathematics.
>> There's also culture. I understand that education is highly prized in
>> parts of the Orient, for example, so Asians often outperform Whites.
>>
>> This is about the programming of the brain, not about colour.
>
> If it’s not “about colour” how come average IQ map is almost perfectly
> aligning with skin tone map?
So, if you are white, Loose Sphincter, how come you are so abysmally stupid,
>>
>> It would be reasonable to suggest that large waves of immigration could
>> affect pupils' collective results. If the immigrants don't speak the
>> local language, that would affect reading, writing, and comprehension,
>> and have a secondary effect on other subjects, such as mathematics.
>> There's also culture. I understand that education is highly prized in
>> parts of the Orient, for example, so Asians often outperform Whites.
>>
>> This is about the programming of the brain, not about colour.
>
> If it’s not “about colour” how come average IQ map is almost perfectly
> aligning with skin tone map?
you miserable gay neo-nazi whore? <VBG>
--
jdyoung about Loose Sphincter:
"Nary does a day pass that Nazi nutcase "Loose Cannon" isn't fantasizing
about bestiality. THIS is how his brain operates. ROFL!"
MID: <d071f20a-21f0-4826...@googlegroups.com>
J. J. Lodder
Dec 8, 2023, 12:17:05 PM12/8/23
to
Would the cashier dare, or even think to check, that special, true
and obviously infallible calculator app on your Phone?
Jan
J. J. Lodder
Dec 8, 2023, 12:17:07 PM12/8/23
to
Jan
Athel Cornish-Bowden
Dec 8, 2023, 12:59:00 PM12/8/23
to
will recognize the inability of the weaker students (as well as some
who ought to know much better) to assess whether a result is believable
or not, such as reporting the concentration of a chemical as 137843
mol/L, saying "but that's what the calculator gave" when challenged.
Actually it's not just students who do this. A colleague of mine once
gave a result that was wrong by a factor of a million million (due to a
failure to understand that although there are a million micromoles in a
mole, there are a million reciprocal moles in a reciprocal micromole).
Sam Plusnet
Dec 8, 2023, 1:09:27 PM12/8/23
to
fraternities and sororities.
--
Sam Plusnet
Kerr-Mudd, John
Dec 8, 2023, 2:17:55 PM12/8/23
to
Deltas were a step above the Epsilons)
Silvano
Dec 8, 2023, 2:38:26 PM12/8/23
to
Kerr-Mudd, John hat am 08.12.2023 um 18:45 geschrieben:
I hope you're right, but when I read "No chance of integrating those
Deltas." I thought of delta in math and science and wondered about the
hidden meaning. Yours and Sam's suggestions are much better. But what
did the writer really mean?
Deltas." I thought of delta in math and science and wondered about the
hidden meaning. Yours and Sam's suggestions are much better. But what
did the writer really mean?
Jerry Friedman
Dec 8, 2023, 2:54:44 PM12/8/23
to
World/ were based on grades (marks?) in British schools or universities.
Not so?
--
Jerry Friedman
Janet
Dec 8, 2023, 2:56:20 PM12/8/23
to
In article <d28e0096-4b68-4254-90e0-
be99d2...@googlegroups.com>, jerry.friedman99
@gmail.com says...
I know a number of Scots and Welsh couples who spoke
only Welsh or Gaelic at home and with their pre-school
children, to embed it as the childrens' first language
before they started school and were exposed to English.
Janet
be99d2...@googlegroups.com>, jerry.friedman99
@gmail.com says...
only Welsh or Gaelic at home and with their pre-school
children, to embed it as the childrens' first language
before they started school and were exposed to English.
Janet
Jerry Friedman
Dec 8, 2023, 3:09:32 PM12/8/23
to
On Friday, December 8, 2023 at 12:56:20 PM UTC-7, Janet wrote:
> In article <d28e0096-4b68-4254-90e0-
> be99d2...@googlegroups.com>, jerry.friedman99
> @gmail.com says...
> >
> > On Friday, December 8, 2023 at 3:55:52 AM UTC-7, Athel Cornish-Bowden wrote:
> > > On 2023-12-08 10:32:48 +0000, Peter Moylan said:
...
> In article <d28e0096-4b68-4254-90e0-
> be99d2...@googlegroups.com>, jerry.friedman99
> @gmail.com says...
> >
> > On Friday, December 8, 2023 at 3:55:52 AM UTC-7, Athel Cornish-Bowden wrote:
> > > On 2023-12-08 10:32:48 +0000, Peter Moylan said:
> > > > My two youngest children heard only English from me, and only French
> > > > from their mother. When they went to school, in an all-English
> > > > environment, they switched to replying only in English. Still, they had
> > > > enough fluency by then in both languages, and their French was
> > > > reinforced by trips to Belgium.
>
> > > In a way my wife and I were fortunate, because when we moved to France
> > > in 1987 neither of us could speak French well enough to use it
> > > systematically, so our daughter heard only English from me and only
> > > Spanish from my wife. She started going to infant school immediately,
> > > and picked up French very fast (much faster than I did).
> > ...
> >
> > This is called the one-parent-one-language (OPOL) model, and I've
> > heard it's fairly successful for getting children to grow up bilingual.
> > But as noted here, it would take a /lot/ of willpower if both parents
> > speak the local language.
> I know a number of Scots and Welsh couples who spoke
> only Welsh or Gaelic at home and with their pre-school
> children, to embed it as the childrens' first language
> before they started school and were exposed to English.
I knew a Hispanic couple here who tried something like that to teach their
son Spanish, but when the father told me about it, he said his son (maybe
12ish at that point?) would only speak English.
The father, by the way, grew up in a Spanish-speaking household, but
at some point when he was in elementary school, a school official came
to his house and told his parents that they had to speak English at home,
because speaking Spanish was holding back their children's education.
They complied, at least for a time, and my friend ended up having to
study a lot of Spanish, including in Mexico, to be reasonably competent.
(Unfortunately, my friend and his wife have gone where there are no
problems with language, so I can't check any of this.)
--
Jerry Friedman
Silvano
Dec 8, 2023, 3:25:17 PM12/8/23
to
Jerry Friedman hat am 08.12.2023 um 20:54 geschrieben:
Unlikely, if my memory is correct and English school grades go from A to
F. But there are enough native Brits who will correct me or confirm my
statement. Then, of course, we should have a look at English school
grades when Brave New World was written.
F. But there are enough native Brits who will correct me or confirm my
statement. Then, of course, we should have a look at English school
grades when Brave New World was written.
J. J. Lodder
Dec 8, 2023, 3:47:20 PM12/8/23
to
Jerry Friedman <jerry.fr...@gmail.com> wrote:
They embody the British class system, as it was at the time.
They are created that way, with none of the inconveniences
of upward social mobility,
Jan
They are created that way, with none of the inconveniences
of upward social mobility,
Jan
Silvano
Dec 8, 2023, 3:50:57 PM12/8/23
to
Jerry Friedman hat am 08.12.2023 um 21:09 geschrieben:
better than the little English his parents probably managed. No insult
intended, but I'm pretty sure neither of them was a sworn interpreter
for English, even apart from the well known* fact that there's no such
thing in the US.
Neither am I, but I'm a sworn interpreter for my native Italian, German
being a necessary prerequisite here in Germany. My Italian degrees -
duly translated by a sworn translator - and a long talk in German with
the person in charge of accepting or refusing my request to become a
sworn interpreter were enough.
For (more or less) good English, that guy had a lot of people in his
class and every teacher there.
*Well known among translators from or into English in countries where a
few people are sworn translators and interpreters.
> The father, by the way, grew up in a Spanish-speaking household, but
> at some point when he was in elementary school, a school official came
> to his house and told his parents that they had to speak English at home,
> because speaking Spanish was holding back their children's education.
IMNSHO, that school official said BS on steroids. Good Spanish is much
> at some point when he was in elementary school, a school official came
> to his house and told his parents that they had to speak English at home,
> because speaking Spanish was holding back their children's education.
better than the little English his parents probably managed. No insult
intended, but I'm pretty sure neither of them was a sworn interpreter
for English, even apart from the well known* fact that there's no such
thing in the US.
Neither am I, but I'm a sworn interpreter for my native Italian, German
being a necessary prerequisite here in Germany. My Italian degrees -
duly translated by a sworn translator - and a long talk in German with
the person in charge of accepting or refusing my request to become a
sworn interpreter were enough.
For (more or less) good English, that guy had a lot of people in his
class and every teacher there.
*Well known among translators from or into English in countries where a
few people are sworn translators and interpreters.
TonyCooper
Dec 8, 2023, 3:57:21 PM12/8/23
to
sorority.
Delta is part of the names of several of both, but none are called
"the Deltas".
--
Tony Cooper - Orlando,Florida
Jerry Friedman
Dec 8, 2023, 4:20:25 PM12/8/23
to
> They are created that way, with none of the inconveniences
> of upward social mobility,
--
Jerry Friedman
Jerry Friedman
Dec 8, 2023, 4:45:52 PM12/8/23
to
On Friday, December 8, 2023 at 1:50:57 PM UTC-7, Silvano wrote:
> Jerry Friedman hat am 08.12.2023 um 21:09 geschrieben:
> > The father, by the way, grew up in a Spanish-speaking household, but
> > at some point when he was in elementary school, a school official came
> > to his house and told his parents that they had to speak English at home,
> > because speaking Spanish was holding back their children's education.
>
> IMNSHO, that school official said BS on steroids.
I agree, and so did Ramón, and so did his grandmother, who, he said,
> Jerry Friedman hat am 08.12.2023 um 21:09 geschrieben:
> > The father, by the way, grew up in a Spanish-speaking household, but
> > at some point when he was in elementary school, a school official came
> > to his house and told his parents that they had to speak English at home,
> > because speaking Spanish was holding back their children's education.
>
> IMNSHO, that school official said BS on steroids.
"tore my dad a new one".
> Good Spanish is much
> better than the little English his parents probably managed. No insult
> intended, but I'm pretty sure neither of them was a sworn interpreter
> for English, even apart from the well known* fact that there's no such
> thing in the US.
New Mexico, then a rather isolated area that had been largely Spanish-
speaking for a couple of centuries. Some people of their generation
would have been fluent in English (military veterans, at least).
The visit from the principal or whoever happened when his family was
living in Denver, though.
As for good Spanish, that depends on what you mean. The dialect here
was (it's disappearing) highly non-standard in all kinds of ways. Ramón
told me a story about the first time he was in Mexico in which he didn't
know a common American Spanish word for a car tire, "llanta". The word
he knew was "hule", which means rubber in standard Spanish.
There may be no degree or certificate in interpreting here, but we do
have the phrase "sworn interpreter" for someone who interprets in a
court case and swears to do so faithfully.
(I took a Spanish class here. As I've mentioned before, the teacher told
a story about interpreting pachuco Spanish for a Spanish-speaking
judge. Of course, interpreting Spanish to English was much more
common and still happens--but in my brief court appearances I've
heard judges speak Spanish once or twice.)
> Neither am I, but I'm a sworn interpreter for my native Italian, German
> being a necessary prerequisite here in Germany. My Italian degrees -
> duly translated by a sworn translator - and a long talk in German with
> the person in charge of accepting or refusing my request to become a
> sworn interpreter were enough.
>
> For (more or less) good English, that guy had a lot of people in his
> class and every teacher there.
> *Well known among translators from or into English in countries where a
> few people are sworn translators and interpreters.
Jerry Friedman
Mark Brader
Dec 8, 2023, 5:08:10 PM12/8/23
to
Athel Cornish-Bowden:
(I mean, the store doesn't know it'll still be good when cashed.)
"Silvano":
I'm sure Athel is right, or perhaps was right at one time, but I don't
believe I've ever heard of this being a "common practice" anywhere.
--
Mark Brader, Toronto | "Courtesy, hell. We're programmers not humans."
m...@vex.net | -- S. M. Ryan
My text in this article is in the public domain.
> > In Chile, and doubtless in other countries, it is common practice when
> > buying a large item like a dishwasher, to give the shop three cheques,
> > each for one-third of the price, and dated today, plus one and two
> > months ahead.
In effect, a postdated check is being used as a promissory note.
> > buying a large item like a dishwasher, to give the shop three cheques,
> > each for one-third of the price, and dated today, plus one and two
> > months ahead.
(I mean, the store doesn't know it'll still be good when cashed.)
"Silvano":
> Not in Germany, if only because the last time I saw a cheque here was in
> 2008...
I'm sure Athel is right, or perhaps was right at one time, but I don't
believe I've ever heard of this being a "common practice" anywhere.
--
Mark Brader, Toronto | "Courtesy, hell. We're programmers not humans."
m...@vex.net | -- S. M. Ryan
My text in this article is in the public domain.
TonyCooper
Dec 8, 2023, 5:09:44 PM12/8/23
to
On Fri, 8 Dec 2023 13:45:48 -0800 (PST), Jerry Friedman
<jerry.fr...@gmail.com> wrote:
>On Friday, December 8, 2023 at 1:50:57?PM UTC-7, Silvano wrote:
>> Jerry Friedman hat am 08.12.2023 um 21:09 geschrieben:
>> > The father, by the way, grew up in a Spanish-speaking household, but
>> > at some point when he was in elementary school, a school official came
>> > to his house and told his parents that they had to speak English at home,
>> > because speaking Spanish was holding back their children's education.
>>
>> IMNSHO, that school official said BS on steroids.
>
>I agree, and so did Ramón, and so did his grandmother, who, he said,
>"tore my dad a new one".
>
What is spoken at home, and what is spoken public can be regarded
differently by some Hispanics.
Two of my grandsons played on baseball teams from tee-ball through
high school. Every team had some players from Spanish-speaking
families.
Before and after the games, the parents and relatives often had
conversations with the players in group settings. Some of the
Hispanic players spoke Spanish with their parents and relatives, and
some pointedly responded in English. Some of the players were
obviously distressed that the parents and relatives spoke Spanish in
this setting.
<jerry.fr...@gmail.com> wrote:
>On Friday, December 8, 2023 at 1:50:57?PM UTC-7, Silvano wrote:
>> Jerry Friedman hat am 08.12.2023 um 21:09 geschrieben:
>> > The father, by the way, grew up in a Spanish-speaking household, but
>> > at some point when he was in elementary school, a school official came
>> > to his house and told his parents that they had to speak English at home,
>> > because speaking Spanish was holding back their children's education.
>>
>> IMNSHO, that school official said BS on steroids.
>
>I agree, and so did Ramón, and so did his grandmother, who, he said,
>"tore my dad a new one".
>
differently by some Hispanics.
Two of my grandsons played on baseball teams from tee-ball through
high school. Every team had some players from Spanish-speaking
families.
Before and after the games, the parents and relatives often had
conversations with the players in group settings. Some of the
Hispanic players spoke Spanish with their parents and relatives, and
some pointedly responded in English. Some of the players were
obviously distressed that the parents and relatives spoke Spanish in
this setting.
Peter Moylan
Dec 8, 2023, 5:30:05 PM12/8/23
to
On 09/12/23 04:58, Athel Cornish-Bowden wrote:
>
> Those of you who have tested modern students on scientific
> calculations will recognize the inability of the weaker students (as
> well as some who ought to know much better) to assess whether a
> result is believable or not, such as reporting the concentration of a
> chemical as 137843 mol/L, saying "but that's what the calculator
> gave" when challenged. Actually it's not just students who do this. A
> colleague of mine once gave a result that was wrong by a factor of a
> million million (due to a failure to understand that although there
> are a million micromoles in a mole, there are a million reciprocal
> moles in a reciprocal micromole).
Once, in a circuit theory tutorial, I tried to show the students how to
>
> Those of you who have tested modern students on scientific
> calculations will recognize the inability of the weaker students (as
> well as some who ought to know much better) to assess whether a
> result is believable or not, such as reporting the concentration of a
> chemical as 137843 mol/L, saying "but that's what the calculator
> gave" when challenged. Actually it's not just students who do this. A
> colleague of mine once gave a result that was wrong by a factor of a
> million million (due to a failure to understand that although there
> are a million micromoles in a mole, there are a million reciprocal
> moles in a reciprocal micromole).
get a rough approximation to a numerical solution without using a
calculator. (By using reasoning like "100 divided by 27 is about the
same as 100 divided by 25, so let's call it 4".) In the end my answer
was within 20%, or perhaps even closer, of the exact answer. The student
who followed along with his calculator was out by a factor of 10^12.
I failed to get across my main point, which is that it's a good idea to
ask yourself "Is this answer plausible?". In a circuit where the only
power source is a 1.5V dry cell, it's highly unlikely that the power
delivered to the load will be in the Gigawatt range. But somehow the
students were so fixed on the power of the calculator that they couldn't
see my point.
--
Peter Moylan http://www.pmoylan.org
Newcastle, NSW
Peter Moylan
Dec 8, 2023, 5:48:51 PM12/8/23
to
On 09/12/23 08:45, Jerry Friedman wrote:
> There may be no degree or certificate in interpreting here, but we
> do have the phrase "sworn interpreter" for someone who interprets in
> a court case and swears to do so faithfully.
My ex-wife got a job as a medical interpreter, something that is
> There may be no degree or certificate in interpreting here, but we
> do have the phrase "sworn interpreter" for someone who interprets in
> a court case and swears to do so faithfully.
much-needed in our hospital system. To get the certification I think she
had to pass exams in both French and English, together with a subject
called "medical terminology". The latter was easy for her because she
had taken Latin at school.
Of course, sometimes less qualified interpreters must be used because of
the range of languages that must be covered. That isn't helped by
ignorance of hospital staff about languages. ("I need someone who speaks
African".)
Peter Moylan
Dec 8, 2023, 5:55:44 PM12/8/23
to
French to the grandchildren. I doubt that she's making much of an
impression. For example, she wanted to be known as "Bonne-Mamy"
(=grandma), but the girls couldn't pronounce that, so now she is called
"Bommy".
Occasionally I'll tell the 7-year-old how to say something in French,
but I think it just goes in one ear and out the other.
Sam Plusnet
Dec 8, 2023, 6:34:08 PM12/8/23
to
to be little in the way of formal interpretation, but the hospital staff
were just as cosmopolitan as the patients, so things generally worked out.
--
Sam Plusnet
Silvano
Dec 9, 2023, 2:38:42 AM12/9/23
to
Peter Moylan hat am 08.12.2023 um 23:29 geschrieben:
> I failed to get across my main point, which is that it's a good idea to
> ask yourself "Is this answer plausible?". In a circuit where the only
> power source is a 1.5V dry cell, it's highly unlikely that the power
> delivered to the load will be in the Gigawatt range. But somehow the
> students were so fixed on the power of the calculator that they couldn't
> see my point.
I fear what's going to happen if AI is controlled by HS (human stupidity).
> Once, in a circuit theory tutorial, I tried to show the students how to
> get a rough approximation to a numerical solution without using a
> calculator. (By using reasoning like "100 divided by 27 is about the
> same as 100 divided by 25, so let's call it 4".) In the end my answer
> was within 20%, or perhaps even closer, of the exact answer. The student
> who followed along with his calculator was out by a factor of 10^12.
How did he manage that?
> get a rough approximation to a numerical solution without using a
> calculator. (By using reasoning like "100 divided by 27 is about the
> same as 100 divided by 25, so let's call it 4".) In the end my answer
> was within 20%, or perhaps even closer, of the exact answer. The student
> who followed along with his calculator was out by a factor of 10^12.
> I failed to get across my main point, which is that it's a good idea to
> ask yourself "Is this answer plausible?". In a circuit where the only
> power source is a 1.5V dry cell, it's highly unlikely that the power
> delivered to the load will be in the Gigawatt range. But somehow the
> students were so fixed on the power of the calculator that they couldn't
> see my point.
Hibou
Dec 9, 2023, 3:37:47 AM12/9/23
to
Le 08/12/2023 à 16:36, D. Ray a écrit :
> Hibou wrote:
>>
>> It would be reasonable to suggest that large waves of immigration could
>> affect pupils' collective results. If the immigrants don't speak the
>> local language, that would affect reading, writing, and comprehension,
>> and have a secondary effect on other subjects, such as mathematics.
>> There's also culture. I understand that education is highly prized in
>> parts of the Orient, for example, so Asians often outperform Whites.
>>
>> This is about the programming of the brain, not about colour.
>
> If it’s not “about colour” how come average IQ map is almost perfectly
> aligning with skin tone map?
>
> <https://assets.ourworldindata.org/uploads/2015/07/ourworldindata_average-iq-by-country-v2.png>
>
> <https://web.archive.org/web/20160301135953/http://ourworldindata.org/data/education-knowledge/intelligence/>
That map aligns with state of development, too - with nutrition, medical
> Hibou wrote:
>>
>> It would be reasonable to suggest that large waves of immigration could
>> affect pupils' collective results. If the immigrants don't speak the
>> local language, that would affect reading, writing, and comprehension,
>> and have a secondary effect on other subjects, such as mathematics.
>> There's also culture. I understand that education is highly prized in
>> parts of the Orient, for example, so Asians often outperform Whites.
>>
>> This is about the programming of the brain, not about colour.
>
> If it’s not “about colour” how come average IQ map is almost perfectly
> aligning with skin tone map?
>
> <https://assets.ourworldindata.org/uploads/2015/07/ourworldindata_average-iq-by-country-v2.png>
>
> <https://web.archive.org/web/20160301135953/http://ourworldindata.org/data/education-knowledge/intelligence/>
care, and education.
<https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/human-development-index>
How have you excluded those factors?
IQ scores in the USA (I assume you're American) rose by about 17 points
in half a century:
<https://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/624/mcs/media/images/81297000/gif/_81297297_iq_chart_1_624-01.gif>
During which period, the US population became markedly less White:
<https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/1/17/Complete_history_of_the_Racial_and_ethnic_demographics_of_the_United_States_in_percentage_of_the_population.svg/1280px-Complete_history_of_the_Racial_and_ethnic_demographics_of_the_United_States_in_percentage_of_the_population.svg.png>
What conclusion might you draw from that?
(NB: correlation is not causation.)
Athel Cornish-Bowden
Dec 9, 2023, 3:50:47 AM12/9/23
to
On 2023-12-08 22:09:41 +0000, TonyCooper said:
> On Fri, 8 Dec 2023 13:45:48 -0800 (PST), Jerry Friedman
> <jerry.fr...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> On Friday, December 8, 2023 at 1:50:57?PM UTC-7, Silvano wrote:
>>> Jerry Friedman hat am 08.12.2023 um 21:09 geschrieben:
>>>> The father, by the way, grew up in a Spanish-speaking household, but
>>>> at some point when he was in elementary school, a school official came
>>>> to his house and told his parents that they had to speak English at home,
>>>> because speaking Spanish was holding back their children's education.
>>>
>>> IMNSHO, that school official said BS on steroids.
>>
>> I agree, and so did Ramón, and so did his grandmother, who, he said,
>> "tore my dad a new one".
I agree. From simple observation I think that growing up in a household
> On Fri, 8 Dec 2023 13:45:48 -0800 (PST), Jerry Friedman
> <jerry.fr...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> On Friday, December 8, 2023 at 1:50:57?PM UTC-7, Silvano wrote:
>>> Jerry Friedman hat am 08.12.2023 um 21:09 geschrieben:
>>>> The father, by the way, grew up in a Spanish-speaking household, but
>>>> at some point when he was in elementary school, a school official came
>>>> to his house and told his parents that they had to speak English at home,
>>>> because speaking Spanish was holding back their children's education.
>>>
>>> IMNSHO, that school official said BS on steroids.
>>
>> I agree, and so did Ramón, and so did his grandmother, who, he said,
>> "tore my dad a new one".
where French was not spoken did my daughter no harm whatsoever. On the
contrary, her French was excellent, and for several years she was
ranked 1st in French in her class. Once we went to a parents' evening
at which a sample of a French exercise was displayed. Guess whose
exercise was chosen for this, supposedly at random.
>>
> What is spoken at home, and what is spoken public can be regarded
> differently by some Hispanics.
>
> Two of my grandsons played on baseball teams from tee-ball through
> high school. Every team had some players from Spanish-speaking
> families.
>
> Before and after the games, the parents and relatives often had
> conversations with the players in group settings. Some of the
> Hispanic players spoke Spanish with their parents and relatives, and
> some pointedly responded in English. Some of the players were
> obviously distressed that the parents and relatives spoke Spanish in
> this setting.
--
> What is spoken at home, and what is spoken public can be regarded
> differently by some Hispanics.
>
> Two of my grandsons played on baseball teams from tee-ball through
> high school. Every team had some players from Spanish-speaking
> families.
>
> Before and after the games, the parents and relatives often had
> conversations with the players in group settings. Some of the
> Hispanic players spoke Spanish with their parents and relatives, and
> some pointedly responded in English. Some of the players were
> obviously distressed that the parents and relatives spoke Spanish in
> this setting.
--
Janet
Dec 9, 2023, 5:11:35 AM12/9/23
to
In article <94af14bc-242b-4123-8662-
f03c5f...@googlegroups.com>, jerry.friedman99
No doubt they rapidly acquired perfect fluency in
English (just like immigrant children who arrive speaking
no English at all).
Speaking Welsh/ saving the language became a big
political issue there, and far more successful than saving
Gaelic has been. Learning Welsh is now a compulsory
subject throughout all Welsh schools; and an essential
qualification in some jobs.
Scotland has left it too late for Gaelic.
Janet
f03c5f...@googlegroups.com>, jerry.friedman99
English (just like immigrant children who arrive speaking
no English at all).
Speaking Welsh/ saving the language became a big
political issue there, and far more successful than saving
Gaelic has been. Learning Welsh is now a compulsory
subject throughout all Welsh schools; and an essential
qualification in some jobs.
Scotland has left it too late for Gaelic.
Janet
Janet
Dec 9, 2023, 5:20:24 AM12/9/23
to
>
> Jerry Friedman hat am 08.12.2023 um 20:54 geschrieben:
> Jerry Friedman hat am 08.12.2023 um 20:54 geschrieben:
> > All this time--well, most of it--I thought those categories in /Brave New
> > World/ were based on grades (marks?) in British schools or universities.
> > Not so?
Not so, then or now.
> > World/ were based on grades (marks?) in British schools or universities.
> > Not so?
Janet.
Kerr-Mudd, John
Dec 9, 2023, 5:31:40 AM12/9/23
to
gates at 3pm (if not earlier).
> Scotland has left it too late for Gaelic.
>
The Irish seem to have spent a lot, but without great results.
Athel Cornish-Bowden
Dec 9, 2023, 6:20:12 AM12/9/23
to
>
>>
> The Irish seem to have spent a lot, but without great results.
--
>>
> The Irish seem to have spent a lot, but without great results.
--
Peter Moylan
Dec 9, 2023, 7:01:00 AM12/9/23
to
On 09/12/23 18:38, Silvano wrote:
> Peter Moylan hat am 08.12.2023 um 23:29 geschrieben:
>> Once, in a circuit theory tutorial, I tried to show the students
>> how to get a rough approximation to a numerical solution without
>> using a calculator. (By using reasoning like "100 divided by 27 is
>> about the same as 100 divided by 25, so let's call it 4".) In the
>> end my answer was within 20%, or perhaps even closer, of the exact
>> answer. The student who followed along with his calculator was out
>> by a factor of 10^12.
>
> How did he manage that?
I have no idea. My guess is that you don't notice typos when using a
> Peter Moylan hat am 08.12.2023 um 23:29 geschrieben:
>> Once, in a circuit theory tutorial, I tried to show the students
>> how to get a rough approximation to a numerical solution without
>> using a calculator. (By using reasoning like "100 divided by 27 is
>> about the same as 100 divided by 25, so let's call it 4".) In the
>> end my answer was within 20%, or perhaps even closer, of the exact
>> answer. The student who followed along with his calculator was out
>> by a factor of 10^12.
>
> How did he manage that?
calculator, because (unless you record the steps on paper) the point of
error has been erased from the record by the time you realise that
something is wrong.
Errors by powers of 1000 are possible in circuit analysis if you fail to
see the difference between, for example, "kilohm" and "ohm" on the
circuit diagram. An experienced person will pick up that "that voltage
doesn't look plausible", but students don't seem to learn how to apply
plausibility checks.
>> I failed to get across my main point, which is that it's a good
>> idea to ask yourself "Is this answer plausible?". In a circuit
>> where the only power source is a 1.5V dry cell, it's highly
>> unlikely that the power delivered to the load will be in the
>> Gigawatt range. But somehow the students were so fixed on the power
>> of the calculator that they couldn't see my point.
>
> I fear what's going to happen if AI is controlled by HS (human
> stupidity).
Chris Elvidge
Dec 9, 2023, 7:43:31 AM12/9/23
to
answer - no decimal points.
We (they) seem to have lost the idea of approximation, perhaps linked to
lack of memorised multiplication tables.
--
Chris Elvidge, England
ALL WORK AND NO PLAY MAKES BART A DULL BOY ALL WORK AND NO PLAY
occam
Dec 9, 2023, 8:23:21 AM12/9/23
to
On 07/12/2023 19:58, lar3ryca wrote:
> On 2023-12-07 02:35, occam wrote:
>> On 07/12/2023 09:11, Peter Moylan wrote:
>>> On 07/12/23 17:31, useapen wrote:
>>>
>>>> PARIS, Dec 5 (Reuters) - Teenagers' mathematics and reading skills
>>>> are in an unprecedented decline across dozens of countries and COVID
>>>> school closures are only partly to be blamed, the OECD said on
>>>> Tuesday in its latest survey of global learning standards.
>>>>
>>>> The Paris-based Organisation for Economic Cooperation and
>>>> Development said it had seen some of the steepest drops in
>>>> performance since 2000 when it began its usually triennial tests of
>>>> 15-year-olds reading, maths and science skills.
>>>
>>> Here, this was reported as that Australia was back in the top 10.
>>> Then it
>>> was admitted that this was not because Australian results improved, but
>>> because so many other countries had gone even further backwards.
>>>
>>> See, you can turn any news into good news if you find the right angle.
>>>
>>
>> The Reuters article is based on the PISA report 2022.
>>
>> https://www.oecd.org/publication/pisa-2022-results#pisa2022results
>
> Interesting page. I did a little exploring, and some results were
> surprising.
>
>> I cannot find Australia on the league table.
>
> What do you mean by 'the league table'?
I am looking in Volume I section "How did countries do in PISA'. There
are three tables ranking various counties by performance in Mathematics
(table I.2.1), Reading (table I.2.2) and Science (table I.2.3)
<https://read.oecd-ilibrary.org/view/?ref=1235_1235421-gumq51fbgo&title=PISA-2022-Results-Volume-I>
> Australia is the third entry in the list on the left.
Which section are *you* looking in?
It shows one of
> the surprising results I mentioned; the two dips below the 23-country
> average of the '15-year old tests'in the math section. What happened
> between 2015 and 2019 (approximately)?
>
>> Luxembourg, despite its very highly paid state teachers, is also missing
>> from the list. (We historically appear at the lower end of the table.)
>
> Ireland was another surprise, with three dips, the worst being in about
> 2009, in reading and math. What happened there at that time?
>
> Others that are strange, with widely varying results are Norway, Poland,
> Sweden, and more.
>
> What, to me, was unsurprising, was Canada's ranking in the same tests.
> One of the presenters on the morning news program on CTV is basically
> semi-literate. He graduated from a Sports Journalism program at a
> college in Toronto in 2020. This morning's performance included several
> instances; "hap'birthday", "more sunnier" "as we make our way into Friday".
>
> On 2023-12-07 02:35, occam wrote:
>> On 07/12/2023 09:11, Peter Moylan wrote:
>>> On 07/12/23 17:31, useapen wrote:
>>>
>>>> PARIS, Dec 5 (Reuters) - Teenagers' mathematics and reading skills
>>>> are in an unprecedented decline across dozens of countries and COVID
>>>> school closures are only partly to be blamed, the OECD said on
>>>> Tuesday in its latest survey of global learning standards.
>>>>
>>>> The Paris-based Organisation for Economic Cooperation and
>>>> Development said it had seen some of the steepest drops in
>>>> performance since 2000 when it began its usually triennial tests of
>>>> 15-year-olds reading, maths and science skills.
>>>
>>> Here, this was reported as that Australia was back in the top 10.
>>> Then it
>>> was admitted that this was not because Australian results improved, but
>>> because so many other countries had gone even further backwards.
>>>
>>> See, you can turn any news into good news if you find the right angle.
>>>
>>
>> The Reuters article is based on the PISA report 2022.
>>
>> https://www.oecd.org/publication/pisa-2022-results#pisa2022results
>
> Interesting page. I did a little exploring, and some results were
> surprising.
>
>> I cannot find Australia on the league table.
>
> What do you mean by 'the league table'?
I am looking in Volume I section "How did countries do in PISA'. There
are three tables ranking various counties by performance in Mathematics
(table I.2.1), Reading (table I.2.2) and Science (table I.2.3)
<https://read.oecd-ilibrary.org/view/?ref=1235_1235421-gumq51fbgo&title=PISA-2022-Results-Volume-I>
> Australia is the third entry in the list on the left.
Which section are *you* looking in?
It shows one of
> the surprising results I mentioned; the two dips below the 23-country
> average of the '15-year old tests'in the math section. What happened
> between 2015 and 2019 (approximately)?
>
>> Luxembourg, despite its very highly paid state teachers, is also missing
>> from the list. (We historically appear at the lower end of the table.)
>
> Ireland was another surprise, with three dips, the worst being in about
> 2009, in reading and math. What happened there at that time?
>
> Others that are strange, with widely varying results are Norway, Poland,
> Sweden, and more.
>
> What, to me, was unsurprising, was Canada's ranking in the same tests.
> One of the presenters on the morning news program on CTV is basically
> semi-literate. He graduated from a Sports Journalism program at a
> college in Toronto in 2020. This morning's performance included several
> instances; "hap'birthday", "more sunnier" "as we make our way into Friday".
>
J. J. Lodder
Dec 9, 2023, 8:25:55 AM12/9/23
to
Jan
Hibou
Dec 9, 2023, 8:32:51 AM12/9/23
to
Le 09/12/2023 à 12:00, Peter Moylan a écrit :
> On 09/12/23 18:38, Silvano wrote:
>> Peter Moylan hat am 08.12.2023 um 23:29 geschrieben:
>>>
>>> Once, in a circuit theory tutorial, I tried to show the students
>>> how to get a rough approximation to a numerical solution without
>>> using a calculator. (By using reasoning like "100 divided by 27 is
>>> about the same as 100 divided by 25, so let's call it 4".) In the
>>> end my answer was within 20%, or perhaps even closer, of the exact
>>> answer. The student who followed along with his calculator was out
>>> by a factor of 10^12.
>>
>> How did he manage that?
>
> I have no idea. My guess is that you don't notice typos when using a
> calculator, because (unless you record the steps on paper) the point of
> error has been erased from the record by the time you realise that
> something is wrong.
I seem to recall that such errors became more frequent, or different
> On 09/12/23 18:38, Silvano wrote:
>> Peter Moylan hat am 08.12.2023 um 23:29 geschrieben:
>>>
>>> Once, in a circuit theory tutorial, I tried to show the students
>>> how to get a rough approximation to a numerical solution without
>>> using a calculator. (By using reasoning like "100 divided by 27 is
>>> about the same as 100 divided by 25, so let's call it 4".) In the
>>> end my answer was within 20%, or perhaps even closer, of the exact
>>> answer. The student who followed along with his calculator was out
>>> by a factor of 10^12.
>>
>> How did he manage that?
>
> I have no idea. My guess is that you don't notice typos when using a
> calculator, because (unless you record the steps on paper) the point of
> error has been erased from the record by the time you realise that
> something is wrong.
anyway, when we switched from slide rules to calculators.
Jerry Friedman
Dec 9, 2023, 9:31:05 AM12/9/23
to
--
Jerry Friedman
lar3ryca
Dec 9, 2023, 3:00:59 PM12/9/23
to
What I did forget was that I had clicked on 'Country Notes', then in the
'hamburger' in a circle next to the Albania entry.
That brings up an alphabetical list of countries. Clicking on one of
those brings up graphs showing Trends in performance in reading, math,
and science, gathered by testing 15-year-old students.
> It shows one of
>> the surprising results I mentioned; the two dips below the 23-country
>> average of the '15-year old tests'in the math section. What happened
>> between 2015 and 2019 (approximately)?
>>
>>> Luxembourg, despite its very highly paid state teachers, is also missing
>>> from the list. (We historically appear at the lower end of the table.)
>>
>> Ireland was another surprise, with three dips, the worst being in about
>> 2009, in reading and math. What happened there at that time?
>>
>> Others that are strange, with widely varying results are Norway, Poland,
>> Sweden, and more.
>>
>> What, to me, was unsurprising, was Canada's ranking in the same tests.
>> One of the presenters on the morning news program on CTV is basically
>> semi-literate. He graduated from a Sports Journalism program at a
>> college in Toronto in 2020. This morning's performance included several
>> instances; "hap'birthday", "more sunnier" "as we make our way into Friday".
>>
>
Bustard (n.), a rude bus driver
lar3ryca
Dec 9, 2023, 3:04:09 PM12/9/23
to
--
I installed a skylight in my apartment...
The people who live above me are furious.
D. Ray
Dec 9, 2023, 9:04:01 PM12/9/23
to
Hibou <vpaereru-u...@yahoo.com.invalid> wrote:
> Le 08/12/2023 à 16:36, D. Ray a écrit :
>> Hibou wrote:
>>>
>>> It would be reasonable to suggest that large waves of immigration could
>>> affect pupils' collective results. If the immigrants don't speak the
>>> local language, that would affect reading, writing, and comprehension,
>>> and have a secondary effect on other subjects, such as mathematics.
>>> There's also culture. I understand that education is highly prized in
>>> parts of the Orient, for example, so Asians often outperform Whites.
>>>
>>> This is about the programming of the brain, not about colour.
>>
>> If it’s not “about colour” how come average IQ map is almost perfectly
>> aligning with skin tone map?
>>
>> <https://assets.ourworldindata.org/uploads/2015/07/ourworldindata_average-iq-by-country-v2.png>
>>
>> <https://web.archive.org/web/20160301135953/http://ourworldindata.org/data/education-knowledge/intelligence/>
>
> That map aligns with state of development, too - with nutrition, medical
> care, and education.
Yes, and for the same reason. You’re trying to imply that Africans have
> Le 08/12/2023 à 16:36, D. Ray a écrit :
>> Hibou wrote:
>>>
>>> It would be reasonable to suggest that large waves of immigration could
>>> affect pupils' collective results. If the immigrants don't speak the
>>> local language, that would affect reading, writing, and comprehension,
>>> and have a secondary effect on other subjects, such as mathematics.
>>> There's also culture. I understand that education is highly prized in
>>> parts of the Orient, for example, so Asians often outperform Whites.
>>>
>>> This is about the programming of the brain, not about colour.
>>
>> If it’s not “about colour” how come average IQ map is almost perfectly
>> aligning with skin tone map?
>>
>> <https://assets.ourworldindata.org/uploads/2015/07/ourworldindata_average-iq-by-country-v2.png>
>>
>> <https://web.archive.org/web/20160301135953/http://ourworldindata.org/data/education-knowledge/intelligence/>
>
> That map aligns with state of development, too - with nutrition, medical
> care, and education.
lower IQs because they live in undeveloped third world shitholes. However,
anyone with half a brain understand that those countries are undeveloped
third world shitholes specifically because they’re full of stupid violent
niggers.
Not that long ago pretty much whole Asia had issues with “nutrition,
medical care, and education.” Not a case anymore. I suspect it’s because
Asian countries are populated by Asians, not by niggers.
> <https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/human-development-index>
>
> How have you excluded those factors?
bad) brought there medical care, education, and everything else.
> IQ scores in the USA (I assume you're American) rose by about 17 points
> in half a century:
>
> <https://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/624/mcs/media/images/81297000/gif/_81297297_iq_chart_1_624-01.gif>
> During which period, the US population became markedly less White:
>
> <https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/1/17/Complete_history_of_the_Racial_and_ethnic_demographics_of_the_United_States_in_percentage_of_the_population.svg/1280px-Complete_history_of_the_Racial_and_ethnic_demographics_of_the_United_States_in_percentage_of_the_population.svg.png>
> What conclusion might you draw from that?
Seriously though, are you trying to say that race differences don’t exist?
Peter Moylan
Dec 9, 2023, 10:00:51 PM12/9/23
to
On 10/12/23 02:03, D. Ray wrote:
> Yes, and for the same reason. You’re trying to imply that Africans
> have lower IQs because they live in undeveloped third world
> shitholes. However, anyone with half a brain understand that those
> countries are undeveloped third world shitholes specifically because
> they’re full of stupid violent niggers.
[AUE only]
> Yes, and for the same reason. You’re trying to imply that Africans
> have lower IQs because they live in undeveloped third world
> shitholes. However, anyone with half a brain understand that those
> countries are undeveloped third world shitholes specifically because
> they’re full of stupid violent niggers.
AUE is doing pretty well in terms of politeness these days, but every so
often a cross-posting reminds us what a cesspit it is out there.
Athel Cornish-Bowden
Dec 10, 2023, 3:27:34 AM12/10/23
to
On 2023-12-10 03:00:44 +0000, Peter Moylan said:
> On 10/12/23 02:03, D. Ray wrote:
>
>> Yes, and for the same reason. You’re trying to imply that Africans
>> have lower IQs because they live in undeveloped third world
>> shitholes. However, anyone with half a brain understand that those
>> countries are undeveloped third world shitholes specifically because
>> they’re full of stupid violent niggers.
>
> [AUE only]
>
> AUE is doing pretty well in terms of politeness these days, but every so
> often a cross-posting reminds us what a cesspit it is out there.
I was fortunate enough to have missed the post you're commenting on.
> On 10/12/23 02:03, D. Ray wrote:
>
>> Yes, and for the same reason. You’re trying to imply that Africans
>> have lower IQs because they live in undeveloped third world
>> shitholes. However, anyone with half a brain understand that those
>> countries are undeveloped third world shitholes specifically because
>> they’re full of stupid violent niggers.
>
> [AUE only]
>
> AUE is doing pretty well in terms of politeness these days, but every so
> often a cross-posting reminds us what a cesspit it is out there.
Athel Cornish-Bowden
Dec 10, 2023, 3:50:44 AM12/10/23
to
On 2023-12-09 20:04:03 +0000, lar3ryca said:
> On 2023-12-09 01:38, Silvano wrote:
>> Peter Moylan hat am 08.12.2023 um 23:29 geschrieben:
>>> Once, in a circuit theory tutorial, I tried to show the students how to
>>> get a rough approximation to a numerical solution without using a
>>> calculator. (By using reasoning like "100 divided by 27 is about the
>>> same as 100 divided by 25, so let's call it 4".) In the end my answer
>>> was within 20%, or perhaps even closer, of the exact answer. The student
>>> who followed along with his calculator was out by a factor of 10^12.
>>
>> How did he manage that?
I follows the misconception that I mentioned: a million micromoles = 1
> On 2023-12-09 01:38, Silvano wrote:
>> Peter Moylan hat am 08.12.2023 um 23:29 geschrieben:
>>> Once, in a circuit theory tutorial, I tried to show the students how to
>>> get a rough approximation to a numerical solution without using a
>>> calculator. (By using reasoning like "100 divided by 27 is about the
>>> same as 100 divided by 25, so let's call it 4".) In the end my answer
>>> was within 20%, or perhaps even closer, of the exact answer. The student
>>> who followed along with his calculator was out by a factor of 10^12.
>>
>> How did he manage that?
mole, so, obviously, a million reciprocal micromoles = 1 reciprocal
mole.
The problem is that our minds haven't evolved to give us much intuition
about numbers bigger than about 1000 or smaller than about 0.01. An
example you might want to think about is as follows: suppose you spill
one millilitre of water on the floor and it evaporates at the rate of a
million million molecules per second, how long will it take before the
floor is dry? The answer may surprise you. (If chemistry is a distant
memory, the Avogadro constant is about 6 times 10 to the 23.)
>>
>>
>>> I failed to get across my main point, which is that it's a good idea to
>>> ask yourself "Is this answer plausible?". In a circuit where the only
>>> power source is a 1.5V dry cell, it's highly unlikely that the power
>>> delivered to the load will be in the Gigawatt range. But somehow the
>>> students were so fixed on the power of the calculator that they couldn't
>>> see my point.
>>
>> I fear what's going to happen if AI is controlled by HS (human stupidity).
>
> It's happening already, I think.
--
>>
>>> I failed to get across my main point, which is that it's a good idea to
>>> ask yourself "Is this answer plausible?". In a circuit where the only
>>> power source is a 1.5V dry cell, it's highly unlikely that the power
>>> delivered to the load will be in the Gigawatt range. But somehow the
>>> students were so fixed on the power of the calculator that they couldn't
>>> see my point.
>>
>> I fear what's going to happen if AI is controlled by HS (human stupidity).
>
> It's happening already, I think.
--
Hibou
Dec 10, 2023, 3:57:48 AM12/10/23
to
Le 10/12/2023 à 02:03, D. Ray a écrit :
> Hibou wrote:
>> Le 08/12/2023 à 16:36, D. Ray a écrit :
>>> Hibou wrote:
>>>>
>>>> It would be reasonable to suggest that large waves of immigration could
>>>> affect pupils' collective results. If the immigrants don't speak the
>>>> local language, that would affect reading, writing, and comprehension,
>>>> and have a secondary effect on other subjects, such as mathematics.
>>>> There's also culture. I understand that education is highly prized in
>>>> parts of the Orient, for example, so Asians often outperform Whites.
>>>>
>>>> This is about the programming of the brain, not about colour.
>>>
>>> If it’s not “about colour” how come average IQ map is almost perfectly
>>> aligning with skin tone map?
>>>
>>> <https://assets.ourworldindata.org/uploads/2015/07/ourworldindata_average-iq-by-country-v2.png>
>>>
>>> <https://web.archive.org/web/20160301135953/http://ourworldindata.org/data/education-knowledge/intelligence/>
>>
>> That map aligns with state of development, too - with nutrition, medical
>> care, and education.
>
> Yes, and for the same reason. You’re trying to imply that Africans have
> lower IQs because they live in undeveloped third world shitholes.
I think it's reasonable to suggest that people who are hungry, in poor
> Hibou wrote:
>> Le 08/12/2023 à 16:36, D. Ray a écrit :
>>> Hibou wrote:
>>>>
>>>> It would be reasonable to suggest that large waves of immigration could
>>>> affect pupils' collective results. If the immigrants don't speak the
>>>> local language, that would affect reading, writing, and comprehension,
>>>> and have a secondary effect on other subjects, such as mathematics.
>>>> There's also culture. I understand that education is highly prized in
>>>> parts of the Orient, for example, so Asians often outperform Whites.
>>>>
>>>> This is about the programming of the brain, not about colour.
>>>
>>> If it’s not “about colour” how come average IQ map is almost perfectly
>>> aligning with skin tone map?
>>>
>>> <https://assets.ourworldindata.org/uploads/2015/07/ourworldindata_average-iq-by-country-v2.png>
>>>
>>> <https://web.archive.org/web/20160301135953/http://ourworldindata.org/data/education-knowledge/intelligence/>
>>
>> That map aligns with state of development, too - with nutrition, medical
>> care, and education.
>
> Yes, and for the same reason. You’re trying to imply that Africans have
> lower IQs because they live in undeveloped third world shitholes.
health, and uneducated will perform poorly in IQ tests.
> However,
> anyone with half a brain understand that those countries are undeveloped
> third world shitholes specifically because they’re full of stupid violent
> niggers.
reasoning to support it?
> Not that long ago pretty much whole Asia had issues with “nutrition,
> medical care, and education.” Not a case anymore. I suspect it’s because
> Asian countries are populated by Asians, not by niggers.
>
>> <https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/human-development-index>
>>
>> How have you excluded those factors?
>
> Those “factors” were non-existing in Africa until Whites (for good or for
> bad) brought there medical care, education, and everything else.
flow.
I suppose development as we know it really took off with the Industrial
Revolution. I have sometimes wondered why the IR occurred in Britain -
manageable temperate climate, trading nation, the security and stability
of living on an island, availability of coal and ores...? The prevailing
spirit must have played its part, but it would never occur to me to moot
skin colour.
>> IQ scores in the USA (I assume you're American) rose by about 17 points
>> in half a century:
>>
>> <https://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/624/mcs/media/images/81297000/gif/_81297297_iq_chart_1_624-01.gif>
>
> Would be nice to see it broken down by race.
>
>> During which period, the US population became markedly less White:
>>
>> <https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/1/17/Complete_history_of_the_Racial_and_ethnic_demographics_of_the_United_States_in_percentage_of_the_population.svg/1280px-Complete_history_of_the_Racial_and_ethnic_demographics_of_the_United_States_in_percentage_of_the_population.svg.png>
>
> And, according to this very graph, it became less Black.
of Blacks rising from ~10% to ~12%.
>> What conclusion might you draw from that?
>
> Less Black equals more IQ points?..
>
> Seriously though, are you trying to say that race differences don’t exist?
so on, and known internal differences, such as susceptibility to
sickle-cell disease. Perhaps there are mental differences too, but it's
impossible to tell, since, if they exist, they are masked by far more
important cultural differences. It's not only nations that differ, but
also our own ancestors. If the past is a foreign country, it's because
the people who lived in it were really quite foreign.
My own view is that the human brain is very plastic. People's beliefs
are extraordinarily varied, and - as Orwell remarked - even those who
would not score well in IQ tests are capable of exceptional mental feats
if their interest is engaged. In short, individual history is far more
important than 'race'.
Peeler
Dec 10, 2023, 4:13:46 AM12/10/23
to
On Sun, 10 Dec 23 02:03:53 UTC, Loose Sphincter, the unhappily married gay
neo-nazitard, now FORGING as D. Ray, whined again:
> Hibou <vpaereru-u...@yahoo.com.invalid> wrote:
>> Le 08/12/2023 à 16:36, D. Ray a écrit :
>>> Hibou wrote:
>>>>
>>>> It would be reasonable to suggest that large waves of immigration could
>>>> affect pupils' collective results. If the immigrants don't speak the
>>>> local language, that would affect reading, writing, and comprehension,
>>>> and have a secondary effect on other subjects, such as mathematics.
>>>> There's also culture. I understand that education is highly prized in
>>>> parts of the Orient, for example, so Asians often outperform Whites.
>>>>
>>>> This is about the programming of the brain, not about colour.
>>>
>>> If it’s not “about colour” how come average IQ map is almost perfectly
>>> aligning with skin tone map?
>>>
>>> <https://assets.ourworldindata.org/uploads/2015/07/ourworldindata_average-iq-by-country-v2.png>
>>>
>>> <https://web.archive.org/web/20160301135953/http://ourworldindata.org/data/education-knowledge/intelligence/>
>>
>> That map aligns with state of development, too - with nutrition, medical
>> care, and education.
>
> Yes, and for the same reason. You’re trying to imply that Africans have
> lower IQs because they live in undeveloped third world shitholes. However,
> anyone with half a brain understand that those countries are undeveloped
> third world shitholes specifically because they’re full of stupid violent
> niggers.
If ONLY you wouldn't constantly expose yourself as a TYPICAL, "stupid
violent", retarded neo-nazi, Loose Sphincter, you abysmally stupid gay
neo-nazi whore and LAUGHING STOCK! LOL
Why do you nazoids ALWAYS, without any exception, keep describing YOURSELVES
when you are ranting about your objects of hatred? WHY??? Why are you SO
retarded? WHY??? LMAO
--
Anti-virus firm AVG <a...@avg.com> addressing Loose Sphincter on Usenet:
"Hello from AVG.
Please stop advertising us. We don't want to be associated with neo-Nazi
scum like you and RichA, no matter whether you use our product or not.
And fix your fucking sig separator!
Sincerely, AVG."
neo-nazitard, now FORGING as D. Ray, whined again:
> Hibou <vpaereru-u...@yahoo.com.invalid> wrote:
>> Le 08/12/2023 à 16:36, D. Ray a écrit :
>>> Hibou wrote:
>>>>
>>>> It would be reasonable to suggest that large waves of immigration could
>>>> affect pupils' collective results. If the immigrants don't speak the
>>>> local language, that would affect reading, writing, and comprehension,
>>>> and have a secondary effect on other subjects, such as mathematics.
>>>> There's also culture. I understand that education is highly prized in
>>>> parts of the Orient, for example, so Asians often outperform Whites.
>>>>
>>>> This is about the programming of the brain, not about colour.
>>>
>>> If it’s not “about colour” how come average IQ map is almost perfectly
>>> aligning with skin tone map?
>>>
>>> <https://assets.ourworldindata.org/uploads/2015/07/ourworldindata_average-iq-by-country-v2.png>
>>>
>>> <https://web.archive.org/web/20160301135953/http://ourworldindata.org/data/education-knowledge/intelligence/>
>>
>> That map aligns with state of development, too - with nutrition, medical
>> care, and education.
>
> Yes, and for the same reason. You’re trying to imply that Africans have
> lower IQs because they live in undeveloped third world shitholes. However,
> anyone with half a brain understand that those countries are undeveloped
> third world shitholes specifically because they’re full of stupid violent
> niggers.
violent", retarded neo-nazi, Loose Sphincter, you abysmally stupid gay
neo-nazi whore and LAUGHING STOCK! LOL
Why do you nazoids ALWAYS, without any exception, keep describing YOURSELVES
when you are ranting about your objects of hatred? WHY??? Why are you SO
retarded? WHY??? LMAO
--
Anti-virus firm AVG <a...@avg.com> addressing Loose Sphincter on Usenet:
"Hello from AVG.
Please stop advertising us. We don't want to be associated with neo-Nazi
scum like you and RichA, no matter whether you use our product or not.
And fix your fucking sig separator!
Sincerely, AVG."
Chris M. Thomasson
Dec 10, 2023, 4:34:52 AM12/10/23
to
On 12/10/2023 12:41 AM, Hibou wrote:
> Le 10/12/2023 à 02:03, D. Ray a écrit :
>> Hibou wrote:
>>> Le 08/12/2023 à 16:36, D. Ray a écrit :
>>>> Hibou wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> It would be reasonable to suggest that large waves of immigration
>>>>> could
>>>>> affect pupils' collective results. If the immigrants don't speak the
>>>>> local language, that would affect reading, writing, and comprehension,
>>>>> and have a secondary effect on other subjects, such as mathematics.
>>>>> There's also culture. I understand that education is highly prized in
>>>>> parts of the Orient, for example, so Asians often outperform Whites.
>>>>>
>>>>> This is about the programming of the brain, not about colour.
>>>>
>>>> If it’s not “about colour” how come average IQ map is almost perfectly
>>>> aligning with skin tone map?
>>>>
>>>> <https://assets.ourworldindata.org/uploads/2015/07/ourworldindata_average-iq-by-country-v2.png>
>>>>
>>>> <https://web.archive.org/web/20160301135953/http://ourworldindata.org/data/education-knowledge/intelligence/>
>>>
>>> That map aligns with state of development, too - with nutrition, medical
>>> care, and education.
>>
>> Yes, and for the same reason. You’re trying to imply that Africans have
>> lower IQs because they live in undeveloped third world shitholes.
>
> I think it's reasonable to suggest that people who are hungry, in poor
> health, and uneducated will perform poorly in IQ tests.
Just take an educated person, and starve them for a while, then give
> Le 10/12/2023 à 02:03, D. Ray a écrit :
>> Hibou wrote:
>>> Le 08/12/2023 à 16:36, D. Ray a écrit :
>>>> Hibou wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> It would be reasonable to suggest that large waves of immigration
>>>>> could
>>>>> affect pupils' collective results. If the immigrants don't speak the
>>>>> local language, that would affect reading, writing, and comprehension,
>>>>> and have a secondary effect on other subjects, such as mathematics.
>>>>> There's also culture. I understand that education is highly prized in
>>>>> parts of the Orient, for example, so Asians often outperform Whites.
>>>>>
>>>>> This is about the programming of the brain, not about colour.
>>>>
>>>> If it’s not “about colour” how come average IQ map is almost perfectly
>>>> aligning with skin tone map?
>>>>
>>>> <https://assets.ourworldindata.org/uploads/2015/07/ourworldindata_average-iq-by-country-v2.png>
>>>>
>>>> <https://web.archive.org/web/20160301135953/http://ourworldindata.org/data/education-knowledge/intelligence/>
>>>
>>> That map aligns with state of development, too - with nutrition, medical
>>> care, and education.
>>
>> Yes, and for the same reason. You’re trying to imply that Africans have
>> lower IQs because they live in undeveloped third world shitholes.
>
> I think it's reasonable to suggest that people who are hungry, in poor
> health, and uneducated will perform poorly in IQ tests.
them an IQ test... They might not be up to par, so to speak...
[...]
J. J. Lodder
Dec 10, 2023, 4:49:09 AM12/10/23
to
Peter Moylan <pe...@pmoylan.org.invalid> wrote:
> On 10/12/23 02:03, D. Ray wrote:
>
> > Yes, and for the same reason. You're trying to imply that Africans
> > have lower IQs because they live in undeveloped third world
> > shitholes. However, anyone with half a brain understand that those
> > countries are undeveloped third world shitholes specifically because
> > they're full of stupid violent niggers.
>
> [AUE only]
>
> AUE is doing pretty well in terms of politeness these days, but every so
> often a cross-posting reminds us what a cesspit it is out there.
Indeed. But don't forget how vulnerable it is.
> On 10/12/23 02:03, D. Ray wrote:
>
> > Yes, and for the same reason. You're trying to imply that Africans
> > have lower IQs because they live in undeveloped third world
> > shitholes. However, anyone with half a brain understand that those
> > countries are undeveloped third world shitholes specifically because
> > they're full of stupid violent niggers.
>
> [AUE only]
>
> AUE is doing pretty well in terms of politeness these days, but every so
> often a cross-posting reminds us what a cesspit it is out there.
It could easily be swamped by bulk dumping of nonsense postings.
I've seen it happen recently, in another group.
(with about 100 000 automated junk postings/day.
Everybody had to use kill files.
Some survived, those who couldn't were lost.
Jan
Hollis
Dec 10, 2023, 5:00:10 AM12/10/23
to
On 10 Dec 2023, "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.t...@gmail.com>
posted some news:ul409s$2kjej$1...@dont-email.me:
"educated" in the modern sense means too stupid and antisocial to function
in a structured work environment.
Seriously.
posted some news:ul409s$2kjej$1...@dont-email.me:
in a structured work environment.
Seriously.
Governor Swill
Dec 10, 2023, 3:31:40 PM12/10/23
to
white students. Examples given included questions that wouldn't make sense to a poor,
black kid. Like, how many bathtubs in a house with three and a half baths? White kids
answered that correctly more often than black kids who much less often lived in or even
saw more than one bathroom in a home. Otoh is, "What is a hawk?" multiple choice offering
A a long sleeve sweater B a predatory bird C a car model D a cold wind.
Anybody answering D was scored as incorrect despite the fact that "hawk" was common urban
slang for a cold wind. The point being there were two correct answers.
Educators developed an IQ test geared towards black students and found their IQ scores
jumped while white kids' dropped.
https://tinyurl.com/5c8cascx
Swill
NP: Alex North - Main Title (Cleopatra extended Soundtrack)
--
"I don't want everybody to vote. As a matter of fact, our leverage in
the elections quite candidly goes up as the voting populace goes down."
- Paul Weyrich, co founder of Heritage Foundation and Moral Majority
Not left, not right, https://www.forwardparty.com/
Heroyam slava! Glory to the Heroes!
Sláva Ukrajíni! Glory to Ukraine!
Putin tse prezervatyv! Putin is a condom!
Go here to donate to Ukrainian relief.
<https://www2.deloitte.com/ua/uk/pages/registration-forms/help-cities.html>
Governor Swill
Dec 10, 2023, 3:34:13 PM12/10/23
to
On Sun, 10 Dec 2023 01:27:23 -0800, "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.t...@gmail.com>
wrote:
I'm sure the Jews in dray's death camps didn't score well either.
https://tinyurl.com/4m6t7uzp
Swill
NP: Alex North - The VIPs / King Ptolemy (Cleopatra extended Soundtrack)
wrote:
https://tinyurl.com/4m6t7uzp
Swill
NP: Alex North - The VIPs / King Ptolemy (Cleopatra extended Soundtrack)
D. Ray
Dec 11, 2023, 2:16:25 AM12/11/23
to
Hibou <vpaereru-u...@yahoo.com.invalid> wrote:
> Le 10/12/2023 à 02:03, D. Ray a écrit :
>> Hibou wrote:
>>> Le 08/12/2023 à 16:36, D. Ray a écrit :
>>>> Hibou wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> It would be reasonable to suggest that large waves of immigration could
>>>>> affect pupils' collective results. If the immigrants don't speak the
>>>>> local language, that would affect reading, writing, and comprehension,
>>>>> and have a secondary effect on other subjects, such as mathematics.
>>>>> There's also culture. I understand that education is highly prized in
>>>>> parts of the Orient, for example, so Asians often outperform Whites.
>>>>>
>>>>> This is about the programming of the brain, not about colour.
>>>>
>>>> If it’s not “about colour” how come average IQ map is almost perfectly
>>>> aligning with skin tone map?
>>>>
>>>> <https://assets.ourworldindata.org/uploads/2015/07/ourworldindata_average-iq-by-country-v2.png>
>>>>
>>>> <https://web.archive.org/web/20160301135953/http://ourworldindata.org/data/education-knowledge/intelligence/>
>>>
>>> That map aligns with state of development, too - with nutrition, medical
>>> care, and education.
>>
>> Yes, and for the same reason. You’re trying to imply that Africans have
>> lower IQs because they live in undeveloped third world shitholes.
>
> I think it's reasonable to suggest that people who are hungry, in poor
> health, and uneducated will perform poorly in IQ tests.
I politely disagree because I think it’s reasonable to suggest that people
> Le 10/12/2023 à 02:03, D. Ray a écrit :
>> Hibou wrote:
>>> Le 08/12/2023 à 16:36, D. Ray a écrit :
>>>> Hibou wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> It would be reasonable to suggest that large waves of immigration could
>>>>> affect pupils' collective results. If the immigrants don't speak the
>>>>> local language, that would affect reading, writing, and comprehension,
>>>>> and have a secondary effect on other subjects, such as mathematics.
>>>>> There's also culture. I understand that education is highly prized in
>>>>> parts of the Orient, for example, so Asians often outperform Whites.
>>>>>
>>>>> This is about the programming of the brain, not about colour.
>>>>
>>>> If it’s not “about colour” how come average IQ map is almost perfectly
>>>> aligning with skin tone map?
>>>>
>>>> <https://assets.ourworldindata.org/uploads/2015/07/ourworldindata_average-iq-by-country-v2.png>
>>>>
>>>> <https://web.archive.org/web/20160301135953/http://ourworldindata.org/data/education-knowledge/intelligence/>
>>>
>>> That map aligns with state of development, too - with nutrition, medical
>>> care, and education.
>>
>> Yes, and for the same reason. You’re trying to imply that Africans have
>> lower IQs because they live in undeveloped third world shitholes.
>
> I think it's reasonable to suggest that people who are hungry, in poor
> health, and uneducated will perform poorly in IQ tests.
with low IQ inevitably will be hungry, in poor health, and uneducated,
unless they live in a welfare state where those things are given to them by
the government.
>> However,
>> anyone with half a brain understand that those countries are undeveloped
>> third world shitholes specifically because they’re full of stupid violent
>> niggers.
>
> That's a bold statement. Do you have a solid chain of evidence and
> reasoning to support it?
Europe, Asia, and Africa, where they didn’t even invent a wheel. And no,
Ancient Egypt was not Black country.
One of the really good examples should be Liberia. Country was basically
created by Whites for freed American slaves, after that Whites left and
yesterday’s slaves became the ruling class. They should have been Africa’s
best country, basically, second United States, since they had education,
support in US, and even their constitution was based on US constitution…
right?
<https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liberia>
“The Americo-Liberian settlers did not relate well to the indigenous
peoples they encountered. Colonial settlements were raided by the Kru and
Grebo from their inland chiefdoms. Americo-Liberians formed into a small
elite that held disproportionate political power; indigenous Africans were
excluded from birthright citizenship in their own land until 1904.”
“In 1927, the country's elections again showed the power of the True Whig
Party, with electoral proceedings that have been called some of the most
rigged ever; the winning candidate was declared to have received votes
amounting to more than 15 times the number of eligible voters. (The loser
actually received around 60% of the eligible vote.)”
“Soon after, allegations of modern slavery in Liberia led the League of
Nations to establish the Christy Commission. Findings included government
involvement in widespread "Forced or compulsory labour". Minority ethnic
groups especially were exploited in a system that enriched well-connected
elites. As a result of the report, President Charles D. B. King and Vice
President Allen N. Yancy resigned.”
<https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Liberia>
“Emigrants to Liberia suffered the highest mortality rate of any country
since modern record-keeping began.”
“Between 1847 and 1980, the state of Liberia was dominated by the small
minority of African-American colonists and their descendants, known
collectively as Americo-Liberians. The Americo-Liberian minority, many of
whom were mixed-race African Americans, viewed the native majority as
"racially" inferior to themselves and treated them much the same as white
Americans had treated them. To avoid "racial" contamination, the
Americo-Liberians practiced endogamous marriage. For over a century the
indigenous population of the country was denied the right to vote or
participate significantly in the running of the country. The
Americo-Liberians consolidated power amongst themselves. They, but not the
natives, received financial support from supporters in the United States.
They established plantations and businesses, and were generally richer than
the indigenous people of Liberia, exercising overwhelming political power.”
Et cetera, et cetera. Basically, hilarious history of this country was
exactly what (((some people))) are saying about Whites. Predictably, they
ended up having two bloody civil wars, went bankrupt several times, had
absolutely African levels of corruption. I suspect they didn’t go to
cannibalism only because of foreign aid (most of which went to pockets of
“officials” anyway).
I recommend reading those Wiki articles, at least just for amusement. You
might disagree, but I think it was absolutely predictable that it became
what it is now (third world shithole).
>> Not that long ago pretty much whole Asia had issues with “nutrition,
>> medical care, and education.” Not a case anymore. I suspect it’s because
>> Asian countries are populated by Asians, not by niggers.
>>
>>> <https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/human-development-index>
>>>
>>> How have you excluded those factors?
>>
>> Those “factors” were non-existing in Africa until Whites (for good or for
>> bad) brought there medical care, education, and everything else.
>
> The most developed countries were White, which explains the direction of
> flow.
>
> I suppose development as we know it really took off with the Industrial
> Revolution. I have sometimes wondered why the IR occurred in Britain -
> manageable temperate climate, trading nation, the security and stability
> of living on an island, availability of coal and ores...?
civilization, dating back to Ancient Rome, Ancient Greece, and further to
Egyptians and Sumers. I think it played much bigger role than geographical
location and features of Britain.
> The prevailing
> spirit must have played its part, but it would never occur to me to moot
> skin colour.
>>> IQ scores in the USA (I assume you're American) rose by about 17 points
>>> in half a century:
>>>
>>> <https://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/624/mcs/media/images/81297000/gif/_81297297_iq_chart_1_624-01.gif>
>>
>> Would be nice to see it broken down by race.
>>
>>> During which period, the US population became markedly less White:
>>>
>>> <https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/1/17/Complete_history_of_the_Racial_and_ethnic_demographics_of_the_United_States_in_percentage_of_the_population.svg/1280px-Complete_history_of_the_Racial_and_ethnic_demographics_of_the_United_States_in_percentage_of_the_population.svg.png>
>>
>> And, according to this very graph, it became less Black.
>
> No, not from ~1947 to ~2004. Look again. The graph shows the percentage
> of Blacks rising from ~10% to ~12%.
further back, unless you think something very important happened in 1947,
right? I’m joking, of course, I do not think that Lynn Effect was as
dramatic as it portrayed, and even Lynn himself didn’t think so.
This is the article where that graph came from:
<https://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-31556802>
“If Americans today took the tests from a century ago, Flynn says, they
would have an extraordinarily high average IQ of 130. And if the Americans
of 100 years ago took today's tests, they would have an average IQ of 70 -
the recognised cut-off for people with intellectual disabilities. To put it
another way, IQ has been rising at roughly three points per decade.
This is a puzzle not just for the US, but for all countries demonstrating
the Flynn Effect. "Does it make sense," Flynn wrote in one paper, "to
assume that at one time almost 40% of Dutch men lacked the capacity to
understand soccer, their most favoured national sport?"”
His question is understandable. If you assume the data shown on the graph
is correct, it means that 100 years ago half of the Americans were retards,
and 200 years ago most of the people were basically imbeciles, barely able
to wipe their own ass. None of it is true, of course.
Anyway, it make sense to look at Lynn Effect graph in regards to our
conversation only if it showed data for different races. But it doesn’t.
>>> What conclusion might you draw from that?
>>
>> Less Black equals more IQ points?..
>>
>> Seriously though, are you trying to say that race differences don’t exist?
>
> Well, there are visible variations in colour, physiognomy, stature, and
> so on, and known internal differences, such as susceptibility to
> sickle-cell disease. Perhaps there are mental differences too, but it's
> impossible to tell, since, if they exist, they are masked by far more
> important cultural differences. It's not only nations that differ, but
> also our own ancestors. If the past is a foreign country, it's because
> the people who lived in it were really quite foreign.
>
> My own view is that the human brain is very plastic. People's beliefs
> are extraordinarily varied, and - as Orwell remarked - even those who
> would not score well in IQ tests are capable of exceptional mental feats
> if their interest is engaged. In short, individual history is far more
> important than 'race'.
D. Ray
Dec 11, 2023, 2:27:08 AM12/11/23
to
logical deductions, and using hypothesising and logical abstractions.
I didn’t know you are racist, Swill.
Peeler
Dec 11, 2023, 4:24:05 AM12/11/23
to
On Mon, 11 Dec 23 07:27:02 UTC, Loose Sphincter, the unhappily married gay
abysmally stupid gay neo-nazi whore!
> I didn’t know you are racist, Swill.
Well, everyone knows by now that YOU are, "neo-nazi scum"!
neo-nazitard, now FORGING as D. Ray, whined again:
> This is a perfect example illustrating inability of Black kids to make
> logical deductions, and using hypothesising and logical abstractions.
YOU just failed in the proper logical deduction of his example, you
> logical deductions, and using hypothesising and logical abstractions.
abysmally stupid gay neo-nazi whore!
> I didn’t know you are racist, Swill.
Peeler
Dec 11, 2023, 4:27:10 AM12/11/23
to
On Mon, 11 Dec 23 07:16:18 UTC, Loose Sphincter, the unhappily married gay
Ooops ...and nothing's left, as usual! LOL
--
jdyoung about Loose Sphincter:
"Nary does a day pass that Nazi nutcase "Loose Cannon" isn't fantasizing
about bestiality. THIS is how his brain operates. ROFL!"
MID: <d071f20a-21f0-4826...@googlegroups.com>
neo-nazitard, now FORGING as D. Ray, whined again:
<FLUSH the inevitable neo-nazi crap>
Ooops ...and nothing's left, as usual! LOL
--
jdyoung about Loose Sphincter:
"Nary does a day pass that Nazi nutcase "Loose Cannon" isn't fantasizing
about bestiality. THIS is how his brain operates. ROFL!"
MID: <d071f20a-21f0-4826...@googlegroups.com>
D. Ray
Dec 11, 2023, 3:57:05 PM12/11/23
to
Hibou <vpaereru-u...@yahoo.com.invalid> wrote:
>
> To know whether immigration is having this effect, deeper study is
> necessary - to look under the bonnet of the figures, to see what is
> going on under pupils' bonnets.
Looks like someone published an article today on this very topic.
“Fifteen-year-old students in several European countries have seen a
decline in reading and maths scores over the past year, partially due to
mass immigration, results from the PISA school test show.”
Not only they perform poorly, they make children of indigenous people of
Europe perform poorly:
“In France, around half of the students claimed that there was noise and
disorder in most or all of their classes while 39% said they had to wait
extended periods for teachers to begin or resume teaching due to
disruptions.”
<https://europeanconservative.com/articles/news/immigration-contributes-to-decline-in-school-aptitude-test-results/>
<https://archive.ph/sotpf>
>
> To know whether immigration is having this effect, deeper study is
> necessary - to look under the bonnet of the figures, to see what is
> going on under pupils' bonnets.
Looks like someone published an article today on this very topic.
“Fifteen-year-old students in several European countries have seen a
decline in reading and maths scores over the past year, partially due to
mass immigration, results from the PISA school test show.”
Not only they perform poorly, they make children of indigenous people of
Europe perform poorly:
“In France, around half of the students claimed that there was noise and
disorder in most or all of their classes while 39% said they had to wait
extended periods for teachers to begin or resume teaching due to
disruptions.”
<https://europeanconservative.com/articles/news/immigration-contributes-to-decline-in-school-aptitude-test-results/>
<https://archive.ph/sotpf>
Yak
Dec 11, 2023, 3:59:24 PM12/11/23
to
Peeler
Dec 11, 2023, 4:33:55 PM12/11/23
to
On Mon, 11 Dec 23 20:56:58 UTC, Loose Sphincter, the unhappily married gay
NOTHING of that confirms your "racial theory", Loose Sphincter, you
abysmally stupid gay neo-nazi scum!
neo-nazitard, now FORGING as D. Ray, whined again:
abysmally stupid gay neo-nazi scum!
Dingbat
Dec 11, 2023, 8:18:48 PM12/11/23
to
On Thursday, December 7, 2023 at 12:04:52 PM UTC+5:30, useapen wrote:
> PARIS, Dec 5 (Reuters) - Teenagers' mathematics and reading skills are in
> an unprecedented decline across dozens of countries and COVID school
> closures are only partly to be blamed, the OECD said on Tuesday in its
> latest survey of global learning standards.
> https://www.reuters.com/world/mathematics-reading-skills-unprecedented-
> PARIS, Dec 5 (Reuters) - Teenagers' mathematics and reading skills are in
> an unprecedented decline across dozens of countries and COVID school
> closures are only partly to be blamed, the OECD said on Tuesday in its
> latest survey of global learning standards.
> decline-teenagers-oecd-survey-2023-12-05/
In the 2006 movie Running Scared, police in mufti (plain clothes) are beset
by hoods. They identify themselves as police, brandish their guns and one asks
the other whether it's okay to waste the hoods. The hoods run away. One explains
to the other, "It starts in school. The new Math drives them crazy; it drives them
onto the streets."
unions suck
Dec 12, 2023, 3:18:42 AM12/12/23
to
Hibou <vpaereru-u...@yahoo.com.invalid> wrote in
news:ul190l$257fv$1...@dont-email.me:
> Le 08/12/2023 à 16:36, D. Ray a écrit :
>> Hibou wrote:
>>>
>>> It would be reasonable to suggest that large waves of immigration
>>> could affect pupils' collective results. If the immigrants don't
>>> speak the local language, that would affect reading, writing, and
>>> comprehension, and have a secondary effect on other subjects, such
>>> as mathematics. There's also culture. I understand that education is
>>> highly prized in parts of the Orient, for example, so Asians often
>>> outperform Whites.
>>>
>>> This is about the programming of the brain, not about colour.
>>
>> If it’s not “about colour” how come average IQ map is almost
>> perfectly aligning with skin tone map?
>>
>> <https://assets.ourworldindata.org/uploads/2015/07/ourworldindata_aver
>> age-iq-by-country-v2.png>
>>
>> <https://web.archive.org/web/20160301135953/http://ourworldindata.org/
>> data/education-knowledge/intelligence/>
>
> That map aligns with state of development, too - with nutrition,
> medical care, and education.
>
Cheating!
https://pricetheory.uchicago.edu/levitt/Papers/JacobLevitt2003.pdf
https://www.publicschoolreview.com/blog/when-teachers-cheat-the-
standardized-test-controversies
https://www.publicschoolreview.com/blog/cheating-in-atlanta-schools-cover-
up-now-investigated
news:ul190l$257fv$1...@dont-email.me:
> Le 08/12/2023 à 16:36, D. Ray a écrit :
>> Hibou wrote:
>>>
>>> It would be reasonable to suggest that large waves of immigration
>>> could affect pupils' collective results. If the immigrants don't
>>> speak the local language, that would affect reading, writing, and
>>> comprehension, and have a secondary effect on other subjects, such
>>> as mathematics. There's also culture. I understand that education is
>>> highly prized in parts of the Orient, for example, so Asians often
>>> outperform Whites.
>>>
>>> This is about the programming of the brain, not about colour.
>>
>> If it’s not “about colour” how come average IQ map is almost
>> perfectly aligning with skin tone map?
>>
>> <https://assets.ourworldindata.org/uploads/2015/07/ourworldindata_aver
>> age-iq-by-country-v2.png>
>>
>> <https://web.archive.org/web/20160301135953/http://ourworldindata.org/
>> data/education-knowledge/intelligence/>
>
> That map aligns with state of development, too - with nutrition,
> medical care, and education.
>
> <https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/human-development-index>
>
> How have you excluded those factors?
>
>
>
> How have you excluded those factors?
>
>
> IQ scores in the USA (I assume you're American) rose by about 17
> points in half a century:
>
> <https://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/624/mcs/media/images/81297000/gif/_81297
> 297_iq_chart_1_624-01.gif>
>
> points in half a century:
>
> <https://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/624/mcs/media/images/81297000/gif/_81297
> 297_iq_chart_1_624-01.gif>
>
> During which period, the US population became markedly less White:
>
> <https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/1/17/Complete_his
> tory_of_the_Racial_and_ethnic_demographics_of_the_United_States_in_perc
> entage_of_the_population.svg/1280px-Complete_history_of_the_Racial_and_
> ethnic_demographics_of_the_United_States_in_percentage_of_the_populatio
> n.svg.png>
>
>
> <https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/1/17/Complete_his
> tory_of_the_Racial_and_ethnic_demographics_of_the_United_States_in_perc
> entage_of_the_population.svg/1280px-Complete_history_of_the_Racial_and_
> ethnic_demographics_of_the_United_States_in_percentage_of_the_populatio
> n.svg.png>
>
> What conclusion might you draw from that?
>
> (NB: correlation is not causation.)
>
Cheating!
https://pricetheory.uchicago.edu/levitt/Papers/JacobLevitt2003.pdf
https://www.publicschoolreview.com/blog/when-teachers-cheat-the-
standardized-test-controversies
https://www.publicschoolreview.com/blog/cheating-in-atlanta-schools-cover-
up-now-investigated
Snidely
Dec 13, 2023, 4:15:13 AM12/13/23
to
Silvano is guilty of <ukvrbd$1rt5h$1...@dont-email.me> as of 12/8/2023
11:38:22 AM
> Kerr-Mudd, John hat am 08.12.2023 um 18:45 geschrieben:
>> On Fri, 8 Dec 2023 18:09:20 +0000
>> Sam Plusnet <n...@home.com> wrote:
>>
>>> On 08-Dec-23 9:20, Kerr-Mudd, John wrote:
>>>> On Fri, 8 Dec 2023 06:35:54 +0000
>>>> Hibou <vpaereru-u...@yahoo.com.invalid> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Le 07/12/2023 à 21:40, Silvano a écrit :
>>>>>> Athel Cornish-Bowden hat am 07.12.2023 um 19:22 geschrieben:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> In 1982 I wrote a book called Basic Mathematics for Biochemists. A
>>>>>>> distinguished reviewer, Keith Dalziel, in Nature, I think, wrote that
>>>>>>> it was OK, but far too elementary for his students. 17 years later I
>>>>>>> made a proposal for a 2nd edition. The publisher (Oxford University
>>>>>>> Press) asked four referees to have a look at the 1st edition. With one
>>>>>>> voice they said that it was OK, but far too advanced for the students
>>>>>>> starting biochemistry courses. I asked one or two people myself, one
>>>>>>> them a lecturer at Oxford: he said that one wouldn't believe how low
>>>>>>> was the basic mathematics level of students being admitted to science
>>>>>>> courses at Oxford were; for example, he said, most of them had no idea
>>>>>>> what fractions were.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> What??? Students entering a university who have no idea what fractions
>>>>>> are??? I learnt them at elementary school!
>>>>>
>>>>> Some still know, but it's a declining fraction.
>>>>>
>>>> No chance of integrating those Deltas.
>>>>
>>> I wonder if that's funnier in AmE than in BrE, since we don't have
>>> fraternities and sororities.
>>
>> I'd like to think most here would have read Brave New World. (OK the
>> Deltas were a step above the Epsilons)
>
>
> I hope you're right, but when I read "No chance of integrating those
> Deltas." I thought of delta in math and science and wondered about the
> hidden meaning. Yours and Sam's suggestions are much better. But what
> did the writer really mean?
You are replying to the writer, so perhaps ...?
My take is that the writer is playing on the mathematical joke of our
feathered friend, and at the same time bringing in a little classical
fiction.
/dps "I've read BNW, but many of the details have faded since 1985"
--
Maybe C282Y is simply one of the hangers-on, a groupie following a
future guitar god of the human genome: an allele with undiscovered
virtuosity, currently soloing in obscurity in Mom's garage.
Bradley Wertheim, theAtlantic.com, Jan 10 2013
11:38:22 AM
> Kerr-Mudd, John hat am 08.12.2023 um 18:45 geschrieben:
>> On Fri, 8 Dec 2023 18:09:20 +0000
>> Sam Plusnet <n...@home.com> wrote:
>>
>>> On 08-Dec-23 9:20, Kerr-Mudd, John wrote:
>>>> On Fri, 8 Dec 2023 06:35:54 +0000
>>>> Hibou <vpaereru-u...@yahoo.com.invalid> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Le 07/12/2023 à 21:40, Silvano a écrit :
>>>>>> Athel Cornish-Bowden hat am 07.12.2023 um 19:22 geschrieben:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> In 1982 I wrote a book called Basic Mathematics for Biochemists. A
>>>>>>> distinguished reviewer, Keith Dalziel, in Nature, I think, wrote that
>>>>>>> it was OK, but far too elementary for his students. 17 years later I
>>>>>>> made a proposal for a 2nd edition. The publisher (Oxford University
>>>>>>> Press) asked four referees to have a look at the 1st edition. With one
>>>>>>> voice they said that it was OK, but far too advanced for the students
>>>>>>> starting biochemistry courses. I asked one or two people myself, one
>>>>>>> them a lecturer at Oxford: he said that one wouldn't believe how low
>>>>>>> was the basic mathematics level of students being admitted to science
>>>>>>> courses at Oxford were; for example, he said, most of them had no idea
>>>>>>> what fractions were.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> What??? Students entering a university who have no idea what fractions
>>>>>> are??? I learnt them at elementary school!
>>>>>
>>>>> Some still know, but it's a declining fraction.
>>>>>
>>>> No chance of integrating those Deltas.
>>>>
>>> I wonder if that's funnier in AmE than in BrE, since we don't have
>>> fraternities and sororities.
>>
>> I'd like to think most here would have read Brave New World. (OK the
>> Deltas were a step above the Epsilons)
>
>
> I hope you're right, but when I read "No chance of integrating those
> Deltas." I thought of delta in math and science and wondered about the
> hidden meaning. Yours and Sam's suggestions are much better. But what
> did the writer really mean?
You are replying to the writer, so perhaps ...?
My take is that the writer is playing on the mathematical joke of our
feathered friend, and at the same time bringing in a little classical
fiction.
/dps "I've read BNW, but many of the details have faded since 1985"
--
Maybe C282Y is simply one of the hangers-on, a groupie following a
future guitar god of the human genome: an allele with undiscovered
virtuosity, currently soloing in obscurity in Mom's garage.
Bradley Wertheim, theAtlantic.com, Jan 10 2013
0 new messages