Morrison: broke as a haint
Marius Hancu
"Haint"
is this AAVE
for
"ghost, spirit"
or something else here
---
[Pilate works a lot at this time:]
I was broke as a haint because the place didn't carry no wages. Just
room and board.
Toni Morrison, Song of Solomon, p. 142
---
--
Thanks.
Marius Hancu
Peter Duncanson (BrE)
<marius...@gmail.com> wrote:
>Hello:
>
>"Haint"
>is this AAVE
>for
>"ghost, spirit"
>or something else here
>
The OED defines:
hain't, haint
vulgar contr. of have not.
A "have not" is a person who has nothing. The phrase is often used in
"haves and have nots", the rich and the poor.
"Haint" meaning a poor person seems to fit the sentence.
>---
>[Pilate works a lot at this time:]
>
>I was broke as a haint because the place didn't carry no wages. Just
>room and board.
>
>Toni Morrison, Song of Solomon, p. 142
>---
--
Peter Duncanson, UK
(in alt.usage.english)
Marius Hancu
wrote:
> >"Haint"
> >is this AAVE
> >for
> >"ghost, spirit"
> >or something else here
>
> The OED defines:
>
> hain't, haint
> vulgar contr. of have not.
>
> A "have not" is a person who has nothing. The phrase is often used in
> "haves and have nots", the rich and the poor.
>
> "Haint" meaning a poor person seems to fit the sentence.
>
> >---
> >[Pilate works a lot at this time:]
>
> >I was broke as a haint because the place didn't carry no wages. Just
> >room and board.
>
> >Toni Morrison, Song of Solomon, p. 142
> >---
That's a good possibility
--
Thanks.
Marius Hancu
Cheryl
I always thought 'haint' was a dialect word meaning 'ghost' or 'spirit'.
--
Cheryl
Wood Avens
That was my first thought, too -- a variant of "haunt". But as far as
I can see without knowing the book at all, Peter's suggestions seems
to fit the context better.
--
Katy Jennison
spamtrap: remove the first two letters after the @
Peter Duncanson (BrE)
This from the American Heritage Dictionary of the English Language via
Onelook.com and Yahoo!:
http://education.yahoo.com/reference/dictionary/entry/haint
haint
NOUN:
Chiefly Southern U.S.
Variant of haunt.
Pat Durkin
"Peter Duncanson (BrE)" <ma...@peterduncanson.net> wrote in message
news:el93l5h9ta4b41crs...@4ax.com...
> On Sat, 16 Jan 2010 03:09:22 -0800 (PST), Marius Hancu
> <marius...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>Hello:
>>
>>"Haint"
>>is this AAVE
>>for
>>"ghost, spirit"
>>or something else here
>>
> The OED defines:
>
> hain't, haint
> vulgar contr. of have not.
>
> A "have not" is a person who has nothing. The phrase is often used
> in
> "haves and have nots", the rich and the poor.
>
> "Haint" meaning a poor person seems to fit the sentence.
Keep in mind that "have (has) not" _as a verb_ is still in use. "He
haint got no money". "He haint going to the store."
But in this example, I think the "haint" is just as likely to be from
"haunt" or spirit.
Chuck Riggs
<marius...@gmail.com> wrote:
Definition 1 of haint, I would think, a ghost, apparition or lost
soul, which I pulled from the Urban Dictionary:
http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Haint
--
Regards,
Chuck Riggs,
An American who lives near Dublin, Ireland and usually spells in BrE
Donna Richoux
> "Haint" > is this AAVE for
> "ghost, spirit"
> or something else here
> ---
> I was broke as a haint because the place didn't carry no wages. Just
> room and board.
>
> Toni Morrison, Song of Solomon, p. 142
> ---
Contrary to speculation, I don't find any evidence that "haint" has been
used to mean "a have-not" or a person who has nothing (proposed
etymology by way of "hain't"). The evidence is all of the side of ghost,
haunt, with some extended meanings. Urban Dictionary:
Chiefly Southern U.S. var of haunt, originally, but
the meaning has since morphed to mean more than a
ghost. It can also mean a scary bitch or mean person,
usually a woman.
The unsolved mystery is, why "broke as a haint"? Ghosts have lots of
properties, but are not usually thought of as needing or lacking money.
But there are plenty of hits for "broke as a haint," as well as others
such as:
lost as a haint
skinny as a haint
poor as a haint
wild as a haint
White as a haint
Mean as a haint
--
Best -- Donna Richoux
Evan Kirshenbaum
> Marius Hancu <marius...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> "Haint" > is this AAVE for
>> "ghost, spirit"
>> or something else here
>> ---
>> I was broke as a haint because the place didn't carry no
>> wages. Just room and board.
>>
>> Toni Morrison, Song of Solomon, p. 142
>> ---
> Contrary to speculation, I don't find any evidence that "haint" has
> been used to mean "a have-not" or a person who has nothing (proposed
> etymology by way of "hain't"). The evidence is all of the side of
> ghost, haunt, with some extended meanings. Urban Dictionary:
>
> Chiefly Southern U.S. var of haunt, originally, but
> the meaning has since morphed to mean more than a
> ghost. It can also mean a scary bitch or mean person,
> usually a woman.
A Google Books search for "as a haint" turns up a number of hits, all
apparently in this sense. As perhaps further evidence, I see one
(2000) hit for "broke as a ghost".
> The unsolved mystery is, why "broke as a haint"? Ghosts have lots of
> properties, but are not usually thought of as needing or lacking
> money.
But they are thought of as not having any. "You can't take it with
you," and all that.
--
Evan Kirshenbaum +------------------------------------
HP Laboratories |It is a popular delusion that the
1501 Page Mill Road, 1U, MS 1141 |government wastes vast amounts of
Palo Alto, CA 94304 |money through inefficiency and sloth.
|Enormous effort and elaborate
kirsh...@hpl.hp.com |planning are required to waste this
(650)857-7572 |much money
| P.J. O'Rourke
http://www.kirshenbaum.net/
Cheryl
I would have thought a ghost wouldn't need money, but also certainly
wouldn't have any money.
--
Cheryl
the Omrud
I have never heard this phrase, nor "haint". Is it familiar to other Brits?
--
David
Donna Richoux
Google Books has a fair number of dictionaries of the regional dialects
of England, and they only are aware of "haint" as "ain't". This sense
also shows up in varous parts of the US, such as New England in 1848,
and in Mark Twain's work.
For "haint" as ghost, the most detailed entry I find says that it came
from Gullah dialect, and that paint of the color "haint blue" was used
to discourage evil spirits.
http://books.google.com/books?id=V9hntB4BJzIC&pg=PA45&dq=haint+dialect&c
d=11#v=onepage&q=haint%20dialect&f=false
So I wouldn't expect Britons to be familiar with it.
There's also an incomplete snippet by a linguist (The English Language
in America, George Philip Krapp) explaining why the vowel in "haunt"
changed to "haint."
"Haint" as ghost shows up in several places in "To Kill a Mockingbird,"
such as "Ain't you scared of haints?"
Peter Bennett
wrote:
>
> For "haint" as ghost, the most detailed entry I find says that it came
>from Gullah dialect, and that paint of the color "haint blue" was used
>to discourage evil spirits.
>
>http://books.google.com/books?id=V9hntB4BJzIC&pg=PA45&dq=haint+dialect&c
>d=11#v=onepage&q=haint%20dialect&f=false
>
>So I wouldn't expect Britons to be familiar with it.
>
>There's also an incomplete snippet by a linguist (The English Language
>in America, George Philip Krapp) explaining why the vowel in "haunt"
>changed to "haint."
>
>"Haint" as ghost shows up in several places in "To Kill a Mockingbird,"
>such as "Ain't you scared of haints?"
There's an "old time stringband" called "The Haints"
(http://www.thehaints.com/band.html) - they say "The word "haint" is a
southern expression for a spirit or ghost."
--
Peter Bennett, VE7CEI
peterbb4 (at) interchange.ubc.ca
GPS and NMEA info: http://vancouver-webpages.com/peter
Vancouver Power Squadron: http://vancouver.powersquadron.ca
Wood Avens
To me, yes, which was why it was my first thought when Marius asked
the question. But goodness knows where I picked it up; the fact that
I know it doesn't mean that it's echt BrE. I'm wondering if it's in
Huckleberry Finn, for instance: that has the right sort of feel.
Wood Avens
wrote:
>
>"Haint" as ghost shows up in several places in "To Kill a Mockingbird,"
>such as "Ain't you scared of haints?"
Ah, that's another reason for us Brits to know it. Haven't read it
for years, though, which is why it didn't come to mind.
the Omrud
> On Sun, 17 Jan 2010 02:39:34 +0100, tr...@euronet.nl (Donna Richoux)
> wrote:
>
>> "Haint" as ghost shows up in several places in "To Kill a Mockingbird,"
>> such as "Ain't you scared of haints?"
>
> Ah, that's another reason for us Brits to know it. Haven't read it
> for years, though, which is why it didn't come to mind.
One of those books I've never actually read, I fear. Wife did it for
O-level, so it often gets quoted in our house, but I don't recall her
mentioning any haints.
--
David
Amethyst Deceiver
<usenet...@gEXPUNGEmail.com> wrote:
I am familiar with it, but mainly, I think, from reading American
novels.
--
I can't control the kittens. Too many whiskers! Too many whiskers!
http://sleeptalkinman.blogspot.com/
Marius Hancu
> > "ghost, spirit"
> > or something else here
> > ---
> > I was broke as a haint because the place didn't carry no wages. Just
> > room and board.
>
> > Toni Morrison, Song of Solomon, p. 142
> > ---
>
> Contrary to speculation, I don't find any evidence that "haint" has been
> used to mean "a have-not" or a person who has nothing (proposed
> etymology by way of "hain't"). The evidence is all of the side of ghost,
> haunt, with some extended meanings. Urban Dictionary:
>
> Chiefly Southern U.S. var of haunt, originally, but
> the meaning has since morphed to mean more than a
> ghost. It can also mean a scary bitch or mean person,
> usually a woman.
OK, good reference here.
> The unsolved mystery is, why "broke as a haint"? Ghosts have lots of
> properties, but are not usually thought of as needing or lacking money.
> But there are plenty of hits for "broke as a haint," as well as others
> such as:
>
> lost as a haint
> skinny as a haint
> poor as a haint
> wild as a haint
> White as a haint
> Mean as a haint
Thank you, Donna.
Marius Hancu
John Holmes
>
> Google Books has a fair number of dictionaries of the regional
> dialects of England, and they only are aware of "haint" as "ain't".
> This sense also shows up in varous parts of the US, such as New
> England in 1848, and in Mark Twain's work.
>
> For "haint" as ghost, the most detailed entry I find says that it came
> from Gullah dialect, and that paint of the color "haint blue" was used
> to discourage evil spirits.
>
> http://books.google.com/books?id=V9hntB4BJzIC&pg=PA45&dq=haint+dialect&c
> d=11#v=onepage&q=haint%20dialect&f=false
>
> So I wouldn't expect Britons to be familiar with it.
Especially if it haint blue.
--
Regards
John
for mail: my initials plus a u e
at tpg dot com dot au
jbmcw...@gmail.com
Peter T. Daniels
> "Peter Duncanson (BrE)" <ma...@peterduncanson.net> wrote in message
> news:el93l5h9ta4b41crs...@4ax.com...
> > On Sat, 16 Jan 2010 03:09:22 -0800 (PST), Marius Hancu
> > <marius...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >>Hello:
> >>
> >>"Haint"
> >>is this AAVE
> >>for
> >>"ghost, spirit"
> >>or something else here
> >>
> > The OED defines:
> >
> > hain't, haint
> > vulgar contr. of have not.
> >
> > A "have not" is a person who has nothing. The phrase is often used
> > in
> > "haves and have nots", the rich and the poor.
> >
> > "Haint" meaning a poor person seems to fit the sentence.
>
> Keep in mind that "have (has) not" _as a verb_ is still in use. "He
> haint got no money". "He haint going to the store."
> But in this example, I think the "haint" is just as likely to be from
> "haunt" or spirit.
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