Tabs = Cigarettes?

[Tony Cooper]

For the second time, a television show I was watching used the word
"tabs" to mean "cigarettes". In an episode of "Inspector George
Gently" a character used "tabs" with this meaning. I forget what the
other show was, but the term stuck in my mind.

What is the connection with tabs and cigarettes?

If you don't like that question, how about the use of "Youse" as in
"Are you youse ready to leave?"? Gently's area is Northeast England,
Tyne and Wear.

I expect "youse" to be used by a Brooklynite (or is it the Bronx?) or
Tony Curtis playing the part of an English nobleman.
--
Tony Cooper - Orlando, Florida

[Bertel Lund Hansen]

Tony Cooper skrev:

> For the second time, a television show I was watching used the word
> "tabs" to mean "cigarettes". In an episode of "Inspector George
> Gently" a character used "tabs" with this meaning. I forget what the
> other show was, but the term stuck in my mind.
>
> What is the connection with tabs and cigarettes?

Found on the net (and I couldn't find it in Wiktionary):
wikitionary says...

Likey to have been formed by clipping the Geordie
pronunciation of the word tobacco (tabaco) or alternatively
from the brand name Ogden's Tabs.

thinking about this explanation, it seems more likely that

the brand would use 'tab' as a word already in general
currency, rather than inventing it - so I'd back the Geordie
dimimnutive suggestion.

--
Bertel, Kolt, Denmark

[Ross]

On Friday, October 16, 2015 at 7:58:22 AM UTC+13, Tony Cooper wrote:
> For the second time, a television show I was watching used the word
> "tabs" to mean "cigarettes". In an episode of "Inspector George
> Gently" a character used "tabs" with this meaning. I forget what the
> other show was, but the term stuck in my mind.
>
> What is the connection with tabs and cigarettes?

Green has a citation from 1934, and several more recent. He doesn't
specify a particular region, but suggests a dialect word tab "the
pointed end of anything".

> If you don't like that question, how about the use of "Youse" as in
> "Are you youse ready to leave?"? Gently's area is Northeast England,
> Tyne and Wear.
>
> I expect "youse" to be used by a Brooklynite (or is it the Bronx?) or
> Tony Curtis playing the part of an English nobleman.
> --
> Tony Cooper - Orlando, Florida

"Youse" is the most widespread of the folk-remedies for the defect
in the English pronoun system (lack of distinct second person
plural). It's well attested in Aus and NZ since the early 1900s.
Said to be of Irish origin, but I think could easily have been
invented more than once.

[Peter Duncanson [BrE]]

On Thu, 15 Oct 2015 14:17:35 -0700 (PDT), Ross <benl...@ihug.co.nz>
wrote:

>On Friday, October 16, 2015 at 7:58:22 AM UTC+13, Tony Cooper wrote:
>> For the second time, a television show I was watching used the word
>> "tabs" to mean "cigarettes". In an episode of "Inspector George
>> Gently" a character used "tabs" with this meaning. I forget what the
>> other show was, but the term stuck in my mind.
>>
>> What is the connection with tabs and cigarettes?
>
>Green has a citation from 1934, and several more recent. He doesn't
>specify a particular region, but suggests a dialect word tab "the
>pointed end of anything".
>

OED, with presumably the same earliest citation:

tab, n.1

8. A cigarette. north. dial. and slang.

1934 P. Allingham Cheapjack iii. 24 ‘'Ave you got a tab on yer?’
The only tabs I knew were connected with the theatre, but I
discovered later that ‘tab’ is a common name in the north for a
cigarette.

<4 other quotes snipped>

"north, dial." is "northern (England) dialect".

>
>> If you don't like that question, how about the use of "Youse" as in
>> "Are you youse ready to leave?"? Gently's area is Northeast England,
>> Tyne and Wear.
>>
>> I expect "youse" to be used by a Brooklynite (or is it the Bronx?) or
>> Tony Curtis playing the part of an English nobleman.
>> --
>> Tony Cooper - Orlando, Florida
>
>"Youse" is the most widespread of the folk-remedies for the defect
>in the English pronoun system (lack of distinct second person
>plural). It's well attested in Aus and NZ since the early 1900s.
>Said to be of Irish origin, but I think could easily have been
>invented more than once.

--
Peter Duncanson, UK
(in alt.usage.english)

[Peter T. Daniels]

On Thursday, October 15, 2015 at 7:05:21 PM UTC-4, PeterWD wrote:
> On Thu, 15 Oct 2015 14:17:35 -0700 (PDT), Ross <benl...@ihug.co.nz>
> wrote:
> >On Friday, October 16, 2015 at 7:58:22 AM UTC+13, Tony Cooper wrote:

> >> For the second time, a television show I was watching used the word
> >> "tabs" to mean "cigarettes". In an episode of "Inspector George
> >> Gently" a character used "tabs" with this meaning. I forget what the
> >> other show was, but the term stuck in my mind.
> >> What is the connection with tabs and cigarettes?
> >Green has a citation from 1934, and several more recent. He doesn't
> >specify a particular region, but suggests a dialect word tab "the
> >pointed end of anything".
>
> OED, with presumably the same earliest citation:
>
> tab, n.1
>
> 8. A cigarette. north. dial. and slang.
>
> 1934 P. Allingham Cheapjack iii. 24 ''Ave you got a tab on yer?'
> The only tabs I knew were connected with the theatre, but I
> discovered later that 'tab' is a common name in the north for a
> cigarette.

What "tab" is "connected with the theatre"?

[Ross]

OED tab, n.4 (Theatr.slang) abbreviation for _tableau curtain_
(citations 1929-1983)

tableau curtain (either of) a pair of curtains drawn apart and upwards by cords fixed to the lower inner corners (citations 1830-1999)

[Tony Cooper]

The drapes that hang at the sides of the stage perpendicular to the
proscenium opening to mask the wings.

What's a scrim?

[LFS]

Used by window cleaners. What's a bucket?

--
Laura (emulate St George for email)

[Peter Duncanson [BrE]]

A brief scrimmage.

[Peter T. Daniels]

Which is different from what the OED said.

> What's a scrim?

A device overused by the designers at Lyric Opera of Chicago in
the 1970s and 1980s.

[charles]

In article <6e39c8be-a5f4-4346...@googlegroups.com>, Peter

Tabs are curtains. Often the main ones at the front of the stage.

> > What's a scrim?

> A device overused by the designers at Lyric Opera of Chicago in the
> 1970s and 1980s.

Scrim is open weave fabric - term often applied to gauze, used in
"transformation" scenes

--
Please note new email address:
cha...@CandEhope.me.uk

[musika]

As used by Shaw.

--
Ray
UK

[Robin Bignall]

A bunch of flowers given to you by a non-AUE-er. What's a sponge?
--
Robin Bignall
Herts, England (BrE)

[Charles Bishop]

In article <sfi22bhds7lqq14mk...@4ax.com>,

Robin Bignall <docr...@ntlworld.com> wrote:

> On Fri, 16 Oct 2015 08:46:44 +0100, LFS
> <la...@DRAGONspira.fsbusiness.co.uk> wrote:
>
> >On 16/10/2015 06:18, Tony Cooper wrote:

[snip]

> >>> What "tab" is "connected with the theatre"?
> >>
> >> The drapes that hang at the sides of the stage perpendicular to the
> >> proscenium opening to mask the wings.
> >>
> >> What's a scrim?
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >Used by window cleaners. What's a bucket?
>
> A bunch of flowers given to you by a non-AUE-er. What's a sponge?

I'm never quick enough to reply to these, but enjoy following them.
However, I thought the "rule" was to have

What is A?

followed by answering

Something that is obliquely A, called B, saying

"B", then asking What is C?

Where C is related to B, rather than A.

Of course, the rules may allow both, but my observation leads me to
think that C is more often related to B.

--
charles

[Tony Cooper]

What usually isn't in a sponge bag.

What's a styptic?

[Sneaky O. Possum]

Tony Cooper <tonyco...@gmail.com> wrote in
news:0lq22b9fjffkmohah...@4ax.com:

A stencil used to paint altarpieces. What's a strop?
--
S.O.P.

[Tony Cooper]

Where dyslexic ship captains dock.

What's a starboard?

[Robin Bignall]

A bloody miracle. What takes a spell?

[Derek Turner]

On Thu, 15 Oct 2015 14:58:17 -0400, Tony Cooper wrote:

> What is the connection with tabs and cigarettes?

It's Geordie dialect. They are "smerked".

[the Omrud]

On 15/10/2015 19:58, Tony Cooper wrote:
> For the second time, a television show I was watching used the word
> "tabs" to mean "cigarettes". In an episode of "Inspector George
> Gently" a character used "tabs" with this meaning. I forget what the
> other show was, but the term stuck in my mind.

I am reminded of Biffa Bacon (a Geordie character in Viz (an obscene
adult comic book (NOT= US Comic Boom))). His father told him to "Hoy us
wor tabs!".

--
David

[Janet]

In article <sfi22bhds7lqq14mk...@4ax.com>,
docr...@ntlworld.com says...

A soft mincer

Janet

[Snidely]

Judges panel on /X Got Talent/. What Zzyzx?

/dps

--
"I am not given to exaggeration, and when I say a thing I mean it"
_Roughing It_, Mark Twain

[Adam Funk]

The curious thing is that the 2nd person pronoun system is perceived
as defective, but it used to be complete & became defective --- what
was the perceived problem with thou/you that led to the abandonment of
"thou"?


--
There's nothing in Scripture that forbids letting our lawn
go wild. --- Garrison Keillor

[Bertel Lund Hansen]

Adam Funk skrev:

> The curious thing is that the 2nd person pronoun system is
> perceived as defective, but it used to be complete & became
> defective --- what was the perceived problem with thou/you
> that led to the abandonment of "thou"?

What was the plural of "you" and of "thou" when the system was
complete?

--
Bertel, Kolt, Denmark

[Adam Funk]

Originally, "thou" (accusative thee, posessive thy/thine) was singular
& "you" (your/yours) was plural.


--
Disagreeing with Donald Rumsfeld about bombing anybody who gets in our
way is not a crime in this country. It is a wise and honorable idea
that George Washington and Benjamin Franklin risked their lives for.
--- Hunter S Thompson

[Peter Moylan]

On 2015-Oct-19 21:05, Adam Funk wrote:
> On 2015-10-19, Bertel Lund Hansen wrote:
>
>> Adam Funk skrev:
>>
>>> The curious thing is that the 2nd person pronoun system is
>>> perceived as defective, but it used to be complete & became
>>> defective --- what was the perceived problem with thou/you
>>> that led to the abandonment of "thou"?

Excessive formality. The plural pronoun was also used as the "formal
polite" pronoun, and over time the "polite" use extended to more and
more situations.

English was not the only language where something like this happened,
but most other languages have managed to retain the original singular
for use between intimates. The polite form wasn't always the second
person plural. In German it's "they", and in Italian it's "she"
(feminine, not female).

>> What was the plural of "you" and of "thou" when the system was
>> complete?
>
> Originally, "thou" (accusative thee, posessive thy/thine) was singular
> & "you" (your/yours) was plural.

Minor correction: the plural was "ye" in the nominative, "you" in the
accusative. Somewhere along the line the two merged.

--
Peter Moylan http://www.pmoylan.org
Newcastle, NSW, Australia

[Peter T. Daniels]

Politeness. Happened all over Europe -- have you ever tried to read
*Woyzeck*? The Captain addresses the servant in the third person
exclusively, because
even "du" had become too "nice" to use of an inferior.

[Bertel Lund Hansen]

Peter Moylan skrev:

> English was not the only language where something like this
> happened, but most other languages have managed to retain the
> original singular for use between intimates. The polite form
> wasn't always the second person plural. In German it's "they",
> and in Italian it's "she" (feminine, not female).

In Danish the polite form is also the third person plural, but
spelled with capital ("De"). It has almost gone out of use today
except for adressing a royal person (and not all of them insist).

--
Bertel, Kolt, Denmark

[Adam Funk]

I should not have said "originally" but "previously"! Even more
previously, it was "ðu" singular, "git" dual, "ge" plural (plus the
inflected forms which I'm not looking up right now).


--
If hard data were the filtering criterion you could fit the entire
contents of the Internet on a floppy disk. --- Cecil Adams

[Adam Funk]

On 2015-10-19, Peter T. Daniels wrote:

> On Monday, October 19, 2015 at 5:15:07 AM UTC-4, Adam Funk wrote:
>> On 2015-10-15, Ross wrote:

>> > "Youse" is the most widespread of the folk-remedies for the defect
>> > in the English pronoun system (lack of distinct second person
>> > plural). It's well attested in Aus and NZ since the early 1900s.
>> > Said to be of Irish origin, but I think could easily have been
>> > invented more than once.
>>
>> The curious thing is that the 2nd person pronoun system is perceived
>> as defective, but it used to be complete & became defective --- what
>> was the perceived problem with thou/you that led to the abandonment of
>> "thou"?
>
> Politeness. Happened all over Europe -- have you ever tried to read

In different ways, though. The tu/vous distinction still exists in
French, for example.

> *Woyzeck*? The Captain addresses the servant in the third person
> exclusively, because
> even "du" had become too "nice" to use of an inferior.

Whereas in English you use the 3rd person if you want to give the
impression of serving: "Would the lady/gentleman care for ...?"


--
"Gonzo, is that the contract from the devil?"
"No, Kermit, it's worse than that. This is the bill from special
effects."

[Bertel Lund Hansen]

Lewis skrev:

> I don't think it ever became defective, it fell out of use because the
> formal/informal divide in the second person fell out of use.

I think "defective" means that there's no difference between
singular and plural. That is the reason that some people say
"youse" - which I heard only yesterday in the film "Layer Cake"
(from 2004).

--
Bertel, Kolt, Denmark

[RH Draney]

On 10/19/2015 8:19 AM, Adam Funk wrote:
> On 2015-10-19, Peter T. Daniels wrote:
>
>>
>> Politeness. Happened all over Europe -- have you ever tried to read
>
> In different ways, though. The tu/vous distinction still exists in
> French, for example.
>
>> *Woyzeck*? The Captain addresses the servant in the third person
>> exclusively, because
>> even "du" had become too "nice" to use of an inferior.
>
> Whereas in English you use the 3rd person if you want to give the
> impression of serving: "Would the lady/gentleman care for ...?"

Unless you're a nurse, in which case you use 1st person plural: "How are
we feeling? Did we use paper this morning?"...r

[Robert Bannister]

On 19/10/2015 5:00 PM, Adam Funk wrote:

> The curious thing is that the 2nd person pronoun system is perceived
> as defective, but it used to be complete & became defective --- what
> was the perceived problem with thou/you that led to the abandonment of
> "thou"?

The problem was that monarchs, believing themselves to be divinely
appointed if not gods themselves, wanted a better word than "thou". Why
they couldn't have been satisfied with "(Your) Majesty" or similar
followed by second or third person singular, beats me, although I
suppose this it the route that led to third person plural in German and
Italian.
--
Robert Bannister
Perth, Western Australia

[Robert Bannister]

On 19/10/2015 6:05 PM, Adam Funk wrote:
> On 2015-10-19, Bertel Lund Hansen wrote:
>
>> Adam Funk skrev:
>>
>>> The curious thing is that the 2nd person pronoun system is
>>> perceived as defective, but it used to be complete & became
>>> defective --- what was the perceived problem with thou/you
>>> that led to the abandonment of "thou"?
>>
>> What was the plural of "you" and of "thou" when the system was
>> complete?
>
> Originally, "thou" (accusative thee, posessive thy/thine) was singular
> & "you" (your/yours) was plural.
>
>

Wasn't it "Ye", Accusative: "you"?

[Robert Bannister]

Whoops! I stand corrected. I had never checked and somehow just guessed
that "lei" meant "they" instead of "she". In German, "she", "they" and
polite "you" sound exactly the same. The verb ending tells you if it's
"she"; a capital letter tells you it's "you" in writing so long as it's
not the beginning of a sentence. Confusion is possible, but rarely
happens in practice.

[RH Draney]

Accusative or "Objective"?...because it seems to me that the same form
was used for indirect and prepositional object situations as well....r

[Peter Moylan]

"I have some paper, but I really need a pencil."

[Peter Moylan]

The Italian "she" refers not directly to the person, but to some
abstract quantity like "your highness". I've heard that titles like
"highness", "majesty", and so on are all feminine in Italian.

[Bertel Lund Hansen]

Robert Bannister skrev:

> Whoops! I stand corrected. I had never checked and somehow just guessed
> that "lei" meant "they" instead of "she". In German, "she", "they" and
> polite "you" sound exactly the same. The verb ending tells you if it's
> "she"; a capital letter tells you it's "you" in writing so long as it's
> not the beginning of a sentence. Confusion is possible, but rarely
> happens in practice.

In Danish polite third person singular and third person plural
sound the same ("De", "de"), but the verb reveals nothing at all.
An adjective would often (-e added in plural), but I can't really
think of an example where the meaning wouldn't be obvious anyway.
Polite form is used when talking directly to the person, and
plural is used when talking about a group not present.

--
Bertel, Kolt, Denmark

[Adam Funk]

yes


--
A: Because it messes up the order in which people normally read text.
Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing?
A: Top-posting.
Q: What is the most annoying thing on usenet and in e-mail?

[GordonD]

Well if "highness" is feminine should the Prince of Wales be addressed
as "Your Royal Highn"? (Pronounced 'heinie', of course.)
--
Gordon Davie
Edinburgh, Scotland

[Oliver Cromm]

* Peter T. Daniels:

> On Monday, October 19, 2015 at 5:15:07 AM UTC-4, Adam Funk wrote:
>> On 2015-10-15, Ross wrote:
>>
>>> On Friday, October 16, 2015 at 7:58:22 AM UTC+13, Tony Cooper wrote:
>>
>>>> If you don't like that question, how about the use of "Youse" as in
>>>> "Are you youse ready to leave?"? Gently's area is Northeast England,
>>>> Tyne and Wear.
>>>>
>>>> I expect "youse" to be used by a Brooklynite (or is it the Bronx?) or
>>>> Tony Curtis playing the part of an English nobleman.
>>>

>>> "Youse" is the most widespread of the folk-remedies for the defect
>>> in the English pronoun system (lack of distinct second person
>>> plural). It's well attested in Aus and NZ since the early 1900s.
>>> Said to be of Irish origin, but I think could easily have been
>>> invented more than once.
>>
>> The curious thing is that the 2nd person pronoun system is perceived
>> as defective, but it used to be complete & became defective --- what
>> was the perceived problem with thou/you that led to the abandonment of
>> "thou"?
>
> Politeness. Happened all over Europe -- have you ever tried to read
> *Woyzeck*? The Captain addresses the servant in the third person
> exclusively, because
> even "du" had become too "nice" to use of an inferior.

I think the issue here is that "du" is too intimate. The level of
respect expressed by "du" and "er" has great overlap, but "er" is
distancing.

--
Q: What do computer engineers use for birth control?
A: Their personalities.

[Robert Bannister]

I'll give ye that.

[Robert Bannister]

But when (or rather why since we do know when) did "du" acquire this
intimacy? It used not to be that way, and is it now losing it? It is
noticeable these days how the change from "Sie" to "du" happens far more
quickly than fifty years ago, especially in the South.

[Robert Bannister]

I think confusion can only occur in reading, and even then not often.

[Eric Walker]

On Thu, 15 Oct 2015 14:17:35 -0700, Ross wrote:

[...]

> "Youse" is the most widespread of the folk-remedies for the defect in
> the English pronoun system (lack of distinct second person plural). It's
> well attested in Aus and NZ since the early 1900s. Said to be of Irish
> origin, but I think could easily have been invented more than once.

Inasmuch as a "Brooklyn accent" is (as best I recall) mostly Irish-
derived, the common use of "youse" in Brooklynese would make sense.

[Peter Moylan]

I have met some Australian speakers for whom "youse" is singular, and
the plural is "youses". Not educated speakers, of course.

[Ross]

I've heard "youses" here, but it's the possessive of "youse".

[Peter T. Daniels]

FSVO "Irish" that means 'Dutch'.