Mnemonic to remember the 10 English houses in order?

[Haruto Tanaka]

As a naturalized American, the 10 houses of English confuse me, so I'm just
seeking a mnemonic to remember them by.

Since the need is universal, does such a mnemonic already exist?

1. Normans (William I,II; Henry I; Stephen)
2. Angevins (Henry II; Richard I, John)
3. Plantagenets (Henry III, Edward I,II, III; Richard II)
4. Lancaster (Henry IV,V,VI)
5. York (Edward IV, Richard III)
6. Tudors HHenry VII,VIII; Edward VI, Mary I, Elizabeth I)
7. Stuarts (James I, Charles I,II; James II, William III & Mary II, Anne)
8. Hanover (George I,II,III,IV; William IV, Victoria)
9. Saxe-Coburg-Gotha (Edward VII)
10. Windsor (George V, Edward VIII, George VI, Elizabeth II)

I can't imagine that I'm on my own, but, if I were, my first attempt would
be to put the first letter into a word.

Naplytshsw

The first half isn't too bad: NAPLY.
The second half is tougher. TSHSW (chew?)

Naply Chew?

[David Kleinecke]

You left out Edward V. I disagree with the classification
but so what. Who cares?

[Haruto Tanaka]

On Sat, 11 Feb 2017 19:45:39 -0800 (PST), David Kleinecke observed:

> You left out Edward V.

I took the list, verbatim, from "The lives of the kings and queens of
England", which I have in my very hands.

Double checking, there is no Edward V in the TOC.
Edward IV 1461-83 page 149
Richard III 1483-5 page 155
Henry VII 1485-1509 page 168
Edward VI 1547-53 page 189

The index lists for Edward V pages 155, 161,162, 169.

The last line of page 155 says simply that the crown passed to Prince
Edward who was 12 at the time, so Richard of Gloucester was his Protector.
Richard III ended the Plantagenet line at Bosworth Field shortly
thereafter.

On page 161 is mentioned that Richard "bastardized" Edward's children
within six months of Edward IV's death. On page 169 it implies that Richard
had arranged the murder of Edward V.

So it appears that Edward V was a "bastard" who was never crowned (although
there was a lot of politics involved).

> I disagree with the classification

It's taken verbatim from the book in my hands, copyright 1975 by Weidenfeld
and Nicolson, ISBM 0-394-49557-4, First American Edition. Library of
Congress Catalog Card Number 74-29035, Edited by Andonia Fraser.

> but so what. Who cares?

I'm taking the AP Euro test in May.

They care.
Schools care.
Teachers care.
Therefore, I care.

[Brett Dunbar]

In message <o7ohor$1qid$1...@adenine.netfront.net>, Haruto Tanaka
<Tanaka...@asahi.net> writes

>As a naturalized American, the 10 houses of English confuse me, so I'm just
>seeking a mnemonic to remember them by.
>
>Since the need is universal, does such a mnemonic already exist?
>
>1. Normans (William I,II; Henry I; Stephen)
>2. Angevins (Henry II; Richard I, John)
>3. Plantagenets (Henry III, Edward I,II, III; Richard II)
>4. Lancaster (Henry IV,V,VI)
>5. York (Edward IV, Richard III)
>6. Tudors HHenry VII,VIII; Edward VI, Mary I, Elizabeth I)
>7. Stuarts (James I, Charles I,II; James II, William III & Mary II, Anne)
>8. Hanover (George I,II,III,IV; William IV, Victoria)
>9. Saxe-Coburg-Gotha (Edward VII)
>10. Windsor (George V, Edward VIII, George VI, Elizabeth II)

As far as I know we don't really bother. I cannot recall learning one or
indeed hearing one.

Also your list is wrong. Stephen was House of Blois and William III was
House of Orange. You also left out the pre-Norman Kings of the houses of
Wessex (House of Cerdic (Cerdicingas in Old English) and Denmark (House
of Knıtlinga).
--
Great Internet Mersenne Prime Search http://www.mersenne.org/prime.htm
Livejournal http://brett-dunbar.livejournal.com/
Brett Dunbar

[semir...@my-deja.com]

Better to say the Royal Houses. A list of the English houses might start with cottage, contain semi-detached and end up with palace...

If you want to remember the list you have provided then try this:-

Nearly any piece of land in York, the Stuarts have seized willingly.

It has the inbuilt bonus of containing 20 percent of your list.

Silly mnemonics are sometimes the best.

[GordonD]

On 12/02/2017 02:37, Haruto Tanaka wrote:
> As a naturalized American, the 10 houses of English confuse me, so I'm just
> seeking a mnemonic to remember them by.
>
> Since the need is universal, does such a mnemonic already exist?
>
> 1. Normans (William I,II; Henry I; Stephen)
> 2. Angevins (Henry II; Richard I, John)
> 3. Plantagenets (Henry III, Edward I,II, III; Richard II)
> 4. Lancaster (Henry IV,V,VI)
> 5. York (Edward IV, Richard III)
> 6. Tudors HHenry VII,VIII; Edward VI, Mary I, Elizabeth I)

> 7. Stuarts (James I, Charles I,II; James II)
7a Orange (William III & Mary II, Anne)

> 8. Hanover (George I,II,III,IV; William IV, Victoria)
> 9. Saxe-Coburg-Gotha (Edward VII)
> 10. Windsor (George V, Edward VIII, George VI, Elizabeth II)

Off the top of my head

Never Answer Phones Like You'd Tell Someone Off. Have Some Wisdom!

I'm sure someone can improve on that.
--
Gordon Davie
Edinburgh, Scotland

[Peter Moylan]

On 2017-Feb-12 17:23, Brett Dunbar wrote:
> In message <o7ohor$1qid$1...@adenine.netfront.net>, Haruto Tanaka
> <Tanaka...@asahi.net> writes
>> As a naturalized American, the 10 houses of English confuse me, so
>> I'm just seeking a mnemonic to remember them by.
>>
>> Since the need is universal, does such a mnemonic already exist?
>>
>> 1. Normans (William I,II; Henry I; Stephen)
>> 2. Angevins (Henry II; Richard I, John)
>> 3. Plantagenets (Henry III, Edward I,II, III; Richard II)
>> 4. Lancaster (Henry IV,V,VI)
>> 5. York (Edward IV, Richard III)
>> 6. Tudors HHenry VII,VIII; Edward VI, Mary I, Elizabeth I)
>> 7. Stuarts (James I, Charles I,II; James II, William III & Mary II, Anne)
>> 8. Hanover (George I,II,III,IV; William IV, Victoria)
>> 9. Saxe-Coburg-Gotha (Edward VII)
>> 10. Windsor (George V, Edward VIII, George VI, Elizabeth II)
>
> As far as I know we don't really bother. I cannot recall learning one or
> indeed hearing one.

In a separate post, HT revealed why he wanted to know. I certainly don't
care, and I would strongly dispute the statement "the need is
universal". Most people don't care. But it appears that some
test-setters do care.

They were bullies, let's face it. Descendants of people who managed to
dominate everyone else. Remembering their names is about as pointless as
remembering the names of US presidents.

--
Peter Moylan http://www.pmoylan.org
Newcastle, NSW, Australia

[RH Draney]

On 2/12/2017 5:30 AM, Peter Moylan wrote:
> On 2017-Feb-12 17:23, Brett Dunbar wrote:
>> In message <o7ohor$1qid$1...@adenine.netfront.net>, Haruto Tanaka
>> <Tanaka...@asahi.net> writes
>>> As a naturalized American, the 10 houses of English confuse me, so
>>> I'm just seeking a mnemonic to remember them by.
>>

>> As far as I know we don't really bother. I cannot recall learning one or
>> indeed hearing one.
>
> In a separate post, HT revealed why he wanted to know. I certainly don't
> care, and I would strongly dispute the statement "the need is
> universal". Most people don't care. But it appears that some
> test-setters do care.
>
> They were bullies, let's face it. Descendants of people who managed to
> dominate everyone else. Remembering their names is about as pointless as
> remembering the names of US presidents.

You say that now, but suppose it comes up in a pub quiz?...r

[John Dunlop]

GordonD:

North Americans Piss Loudly. You’d Think Some Orangutan Had Sabotaged
Waterworks.

--
John

[musika]

On 12/02/2017 12:30, Peter Moylan wrote:
> On 2017-Feb-12 17:23, Brett Dunbar wrote:
>> In message <o7ohor$1qid$1...@adenine.netfront.net>, Haruto Tanaka
>> <Tanaka...@asahi.net> writes
>>> As a naturalized American, the 10 houses of English confuse me, so
>>> I'm just seeking a mnemonic to remember them by.
>>>
>>> Since the need is universal, does such a mnemonic already exist?
>>>
>>> 1. Normans (William I,II; Henry I; Stephen)
>>> 2. Angevins (Henry II; Richard I, John)
>>> 3. Plantagenets (Henry III, Edward I,II, III; Richard II)
>>> 4. Lancaster (Henry IV,V,VI)
>>> 5. York (Edward IV, Richard III)
>>> 6. Tudors HHenry VII,VIII; Edward VI, Mary I, Elizabeth I)
>>> 7. Stuarts (James I, Charles I,II; James II, William III & Mary II, Anne)
>>> 8. Hanover (George I,II,III,IV; William IV, Victoria)
>>> 9. Saxe-Coburg-Gotha (Edward VII)
>>> 10. Windsor (George V, Edward VIII, George VI, Elizabeth II)
>>
>> As far as I know we don't really bother. I cannot recall learning one or
>> indeed hearing one.
>
> In a separate post, HT revealed why he wanted to know. I certainly don't
> care, and I would strongly dispute the statement "the need is
> universal". Most people don't care. But it appears that some
> test-setters do care.
>

Sounds like an Algerian post.



--
Ray
UK

[Whiskers]

As I'm in a nit-picking mood, I'll also point out that these may have
been rulers of England but they mostly weren't English. The list also
ignores some very interesting details - not least, Matilda.

--
-- ^^^^^^^^^^
-- Whiskers
-- ~~~~~~~~~~

[Haruto Tanaka]

On Sun, 12 Feb 2017 12:48:27 +0000, John Dunlop observed:

> North Americans Piss Loudly. You?d Think Some Orangutan Had Sabotaged
> Waterworks.

This works also!
Thank you very much.
I will move forward now and not reply unless asked a specific question.

Thank you all very much so!

[Haruto Tanaka]

On Sun, 12 Feb 2017 23:30:19 +1100, Peter Moylan observed:

> In a separate post, HT revealed why he wanted to know. I certainly don't
> care, and I would strongly dispute the statement "the need is
> universal". Most people don't care. But it appears that some
> test-setters do care.
>
> They were bullies, let's face it. Descendants of people who managed to
> dominate everyone else. Remembering their names is about as pointless as
> remembering the names of US presidents.

Pointless may it be; however the problem is that there are a ton of
temporal tricky questions on the upcoming AP Euro exam.

Certainly it helps to have an idea of "order" in the myriad happenstances
of history, especially when purposefully tricky questions are posed.

If I can eliminate just one of the multiple-choice selections, that ups my
chance of a correct answer by 20% alone.

Remembering a dozen mnemonics is a small price to pay for a better test
score and therefore a better shot at a better university (and maybe even a
scholarship, if that is in the cards).

Still, I understand that you have not that need, which is perfectly fine.

[Haruto Tanaka]

On Sun, 12 Feb 2017 02:36:22 -0800 (PST), semir...@my-deja.com observed:

> Nearly any piece of land in York, the Stuarts have seized willingly.

That's perfect!
Did you make that up on your own?
It's great!
Nearly Any Piece of Land in York, The Stuarts Have Seized Willingly!

> It has the inbuilt bonus of containing 20 percent of your list.

Nearly any piece of land in York, the Stuarts have seized willingly!

> Silly mnemonics are sometimes the best.

I still remember the silly off-color one for the 8 bones of the wrist:
"Never Lower Tilly's Pants, Mother Might Come Home."

And, the original rather off-color one for the resistor color code:
"Black Boys Rape Our Young Girls, But Violet Gives Willingly".

I'm a bit rusty on my biology phylogeny mnemonic though as it's not off
color so it's much harder to remember without thinking about it.
King Philip Sailed Across the Stormy Seas ???????

Note that most mnemonics don't cover the sub phylum, which is critical so
the third word must start with an "s".

[Athel Cornish-Bowden]

The mnemonics I invented for the transition metals make no sense as
words, but I've never had any difficulty remembering them:

Scantivancromanfeconicuzn (the last for letters pronounced like "cousin")
Yzirniomoltech, rurhodipalsicad

Likewise, I find ROYGBIV easier to remember than any mnemonic.

One (meaningful) one that I didn't invent (maybe it was Louis Fieser)
was "all altruists gladly make gum in gallon tanks". However, the only
ones that matter for most purposes are glucose, mannose and galactose,
and they're easy enough to remember without a mnemonic. I don't suppose
I'll ever need to know what talose is, but if I do the mnemonic will
help.


--
athel

[David Kleinecke]

On Sunday, February 12, 2017 at 8:21:24 AM UTC-8, Haruto Tanaka wrote:
> On Sun, 12 Feb 2017 02:36:22 -0800 (PST), semir...@my-deja.com observed:
>
> > Nearly any piece of land in York, the Stuarts have seized willingly.
>
> That's perfect!
> Did you make that up on your own?
> It's great!
> Nearly Any Piece of Land in York, The Stuarts Have Seized Willingly!
>
> > It has the inbuilt bonus of containing 20 percent of your list.
>
> Nearly any piece of land in York, the Stuarts have seized willingly!
>
> > Silly mnemonics are sometimes the best.
>
> I still remember the silly off-color one for the 8 bones of the wrist:
> "Never Lower Tilly's Pants, Mother Might Come Home."
>
> And, the original rather off-color one for the resistor color code:
> "Black Boys Rape Our Young Girls, But Violet Gives Willingly".

Careful with that one.

I learned it as:
"Bad Boys Rape Our Young Girls, But Violet Gives Willingly".

[David Kleinecke]

The "Little Princes in the Tower" and the villainy of Richard III
is a well-known romantic theme. Tudor propaganda directed against
Richard confused the matter completely. The episode has a vast
literature and doubtless will continue to be reconstructed again
and again for years to come.

OT: It appears they recently found Richard's body.

[Haruto Tanaka]

On Sun, 12 Feb 2017 10:52:08 -0800 (PST), David Kleinecke observed:

> I learned it as:
> "Bad Boys Rape Our Young Girls, But Violet Gives Willingly".

Black makes much more sense so why try to remember Bad when Black is far
better when colors are the only objective?

[occam]

On 12/02/2017 11:36, semir...@my-deja.com wrote:

>
> Silly mnemonics are sometimes the best.
>

My favourite is the Newtonian rainbow colour order:
"Virgins In Bed Give You Odd Reactions"

(Imparted to us by our Physics master way back in O Level days.)

[occam]

Political correctness? Except that when that mnemonic was invented, I
suspect PC was far from everyone's mind.

[Haruto Tanaka]

On Sun, 12 Feb 2017 20:16:27 +0100, occam observed:

> My favourite is the Newtonian rainbow colour order:
> "Virgins In Bed Give You Odd Reactions"
>
> (Imparted to us by our Physics master way back in O Level days.)

That's a good one.
I just remember it as the word Roy-G-Biv.

[Richard Tobin]

In article <c3b2242b-48d6-4a8e...@googlegroups.com>,

David Kleinecke <dklei...@gmail.com> wrote:

>> And, the original rather off-color one for the resistor color code:
>> "Black Boys Rape Our Young Girls, But Violet Gives Willingly".

>I learned it as:
>"Bad Boys Rape Our Young Girls, But Violet Gives Willingly".

Either is distasteful, to say the least. Black is used to remind you
that it's black-brown not brown-black.

I never learnt an acronym for it - they're just the rainbow colours
with some extras at each end.

-- Richard

[Sam Plusnet]

When I learnt it in the UK, that latter part was
"Beautiful Virgins Getting Worried"
Which isn't in any better taste than the first part really.


--
Sam Plusnet

[semir...@my-deja.com]

On Sunday, 12 February 2017 16:21:24 UTC, Haruto Tanaka wrote:
> On Sun, 12 Feb 2017 02:36:22 -0800 (PST), semiretired observed:

>>Nearly any piece of land in York, the Stuarts have seized willingly.

>That's perfect!
>Did you make that up on your own?
>It's great!
> Nearly Any Piece of Land in York, The Stuarts Have Seized Willingly!

>>It has the inbuilt bonus of containing 20 percent of your list.

>Nearly any piece of land in York, the Stuarts have seized willingly!

>>Silly mnemonics are sometimes the best.

Glad it helps. This group helped me with a mnemonic many years ago.

[Robert Bannister]

They had to do that because Henry VII's claim to the throne was
extremely shaky, and he was allegedly very sensitive about anyone
mentioning it.

The episode has a vast
> literature and doubtless will continue to be reconstructed again
> and again for years to come.
>
> OT: It appears they recently found Richard's body.
>
>

--
Robert B. born England a long time ago;
Western Australia since 1972

[Peter Moylan]

So do I. I also remember the name Mvem Jsunp, and it doesn't bother me
at all that it's almost unpronounceable.

[Mark Brader]

Haruto Tanaka:

> Pointless may it be; however the problem is that there are a ton of
> temporal tricky questions on the upcoming AP Euro exam.

Whatever that is.
--
Mark Brader, Toronto | "GUALITY IS FIRST"
m...@vex.net | --slogan of "Dongda electron CO.,LTD"

[Haruto Tanaka]

On Sun, 12 Feb 2017 22:32:48 -0600, Mark Brader observed:

> Whatever that is.

http://apcentral.collegeboard.com/apc/members/exam/exam_information/2085.html
Exam Day 2017
Fri, May 12, 12 noon

Exam Duration
3 hours, 15 minutes

Exam Overview

The AP European History Exam measures students' knowledge of European
history and their ability to think historically. Questions are based on key
and supporting concepts, course themes, and historical thinking skills
outlined in the course and exam description.

Review the Rubrics for AP Histories + Historical Thinking Skills
https://secure-media.collegeboard.org/digitalServices/pdf/ap/rubrics-ap-histories-historical-thinking-skills.pdf

https://apstudent.collegeboard.org/apcourse/ap-european-history/about-the-exam
The AP European History Exam is 3 hours and 15 minutes long and includes a
multiple-choice/short-answer section and a free-response section. Each
section is divided into two parts.
Section I: Part A Multiple Choice | 55 Questions | 55 minutes | 40% of Exam
Score
Questions appear in sets of 2 to 5.
You will analyze historical texts, interpretations, and evidence.
Primary and secondary sources, images, graphs, and maps are included.

Section I: Part B Short Answer | 4 Questions | 50 minutes | 20% of Exam
Score
Questions provide opportunities for you to demonstrate what you know best.
Some questions include texts, images, graphs, or maps.

Section II: Part A Document Based | 1 Question | 55 minutes (includes a
15-minute reading period) | 25% of Exam Score
Analyze and synthesize historical data.
Assess written, quantitative, or visual materials as historical evidence.

Section II: Part B Long Essay | 1 Question | 35 minutes | 15% of Exam Score
You will select one question among two.
Explain and analyze significant issues in European history.
Develop an argument supported by an analysis of historical evidence.

[Tony Cooper]

What is the result of passing or failing the exam? Who would take it
and why?

--
Tony Cooper - Orlando, Florida

[David Kleinecke]

From Google:

Advanced Placement (AP) is a program in the United States and
Canada created by the College Board which offers college-level
curricula and examinations to high school students. American
colleges and universities may grant placement and course
credit to students who obtain high scores on the examinations.

I hope they do not actually expect students to know the
gruesome details about English royalty.

[Don Phillipson]

> In message <o7ohor$1qid$1...@adenine.netfront.net>, Haruto Tanaka
> <Tanaka...@asahi.net> writes
>>As a naturalized American, the 10 houses of English confuse me, so I'm
>>just

>>seeking a mnemonic to remember them by. . . .

"Brett Dunbar" <br...@dimetrodon.me.uk> wrote in message
news:jAXMxLKj9$nYF...@dimetrodon.demon.co.uk...

> As far as I know we don't really bother. I cannot recall learning one or
> indeed hearing one.

Learning the names and dates of English kings (and their
queens too) since 1066 was a standard exercise and/or
punishment in fee-paying private schools in England as
late as the 1950s. Printers still sold tables and copy
books for this purpose. Pupil culture thus maintained a
rhythmical list of the names as a mnemonic, beginning
"Willie, Willie, Harry, Ste . . ."
--
Don Phillipson
Carlsbad Springs
(Ottawa, Canada)

[Jerry Friedman]

On Sunday, February 12, 2017 at 9:15:39 PM UTC-7, Peter Moylan wrote:
> On 2017-Feb-13 06:21, Haruto Tanaka wrote:
> > On Sun, 12 Feb 2017 20:16:27 +0100, occam observed:
> >
> >> My favourite is the Newtonian rainbow colour order:
> >> "Virgins In Bed Give You Odd Reactions"
> >>
> >> (Imparted to us by our Physics master way back in O Level days.)
> >
> > That's a good one.
> > I just remember it as the word Roy-G-Biv.
>
> So do I. I also remember the name Mvem Jsunp, and it doesn't bother me
> at all that it's almost unpronounceable.

It's more pronounceable without the p.

--
Jerry Friedman

[Don Phillipson]

"Don Phillipson" <e9...@SPAMBLOCK.ncf.ca> wrote in message
news:o7t338$ae0$1...@news.albasani.net...

> . . . [English schoolboys] thus maintained a

> rhythmical list of the names as a mnemonic, beginning
> "Willie, Willie, Harry, Ste . . ."

Can anyone supply the rest? Someone asked me at lunchtime
today but I could not help him.

[Peter Duncanson [BrE]]

On Mon, 13 Feb 2017 16:58:17 -0500, "Don Phillipson"
<e9...@SPAMBLOCK.ncf.ca> wrote:

>"Don Phillipson" <e9...@SPAMBLOCK.ncf.ca> wrote in message
>news:o7t338$ae0$1...@news.albasani.net...
>
>> . . . [English schoolboys] thus maintained a
>> rhythmical list of the names as a mnemonic, beginning
>> "Willie, Willie, Harry, Ste . . ."
>
>Can anyone supply the rest? Someone asked me at lunchtime
>today but I could not help him.

There are various versions here:
https://www.theguardian.com/notesandqueries/query/0,5753,-1999,00.html


--
Peter Duncanson, UK
(in alt.usage.english)

[Robert Bannister]

On 13/2/17 12:32 pm, Mark Brader wrote:
> Haruto Tanaka:
>> Pointless may it be; however the problem is that there are a ton of
>> temporal tricky questions on the upcoming AP Euro exam.
>
> Whatever that is.
>

Google gives lots of information about the exam and "AP European
History", but no word about what "AP" is - Agèd Persons?

[Robert Bannister]

On 14/2/17 1:19 am, Haruto Tanaka wrote:
> On Sun, 12 Feb 2017 22:32:48 -0600, Mark Brader observed:
>
>> Whatever that is.
>
> http://apcentral.collegeboard.com/apc/members/exam/exam_information/2085.html
>
> Exam Day 2017
> Fri, May 12, 12 noon
>
> Exam Duration
> 3 hours, 15 minutes
>
> Exam Overview
>
> The AP European History Exam measures students' knowledge of European
> history and their ability to think historically.

But why? And who is AP?

[Robert Bannister]

I thought this one was utterly brilliant, apart from the spelling or
"reins":

William the conqueror, long did reign William his son, by an arrow was
slain, Henry the first was a scholar bright, Stephen was king - but not
by right. Then Henry the second - Plantagenet's scion Richard the first
was as brave as a lion, John though a tyrant - the charter was signed
Henry the third had a weakly mind. Edward the first, conquered Cambria
Dales Edward the second was born - prince of Wales Edward the third
humbled France in her pride, Richard the second - in prison died. Henry
the fourth, for his own took the crown, Henry the fifth brought the
french king down, Henry the sixth lost his father's gains, Edward the
fourth took hold of the reigns, Edward the fifth died with his brother,
Richard the third soon made way for another! Henry the seventh was
frugal of means, Henry the eighth had a great many queens, Edward the
sixth reformation began, Cruel Queen Mary prevented the plan, Elizabeth
the first had a great many aims, England and Scotland were joined by
king James. Charles the first found his people a cruel correcter,
Cromwell was called Lord Protector. Charles the second hid in an oak,
James the second took the catholic yoke. William and Mary were offered
the crown, Anne was next - but reigned alone. George the first from
Hanover came, George the second continued the name, George the third was
loved in the land, George the fourth was polite and grand. William the
fourth had no heir of his own, So queen Victoria ascended the throne.
When good queen Victoria's reign was o'er. Edward the seventh, the
British crown wore. His son George the fifth ruled the empire amassed -
where the sun never set - it was so vast. Edward the eighth gave up his
crown for his wife, George the sixth ruled through world war two's
strife. Elizabeth the second reigns today - and God save the queen her
subjects hearts say!

Kerry - Lee Griffiths, Stourbridge, West Midlands

[Tony Cooper]

On Tue, 14 Feb 2017 09:40:21 +0800, Robert Bannister
<rob...@clubtelco.com> wrote:

>On 13/2/17 12:32 pm, Mark Brader wrote:
>> Haruto Tanaka:
>>> Pointless may it be; however the problem is that there are a ton of
>>> temporal tricky questions on the upcoming AP Euro exam.
>>
>> Whatever that is.
>>
>Google gives lots of information about the exam and "AP European
>History", but no word about what "AP" is - Agèd Persons?

"AP", in the US when used in conjunction with a test, stands for
"Advanced Placement". Passing the test allows the student to be
placed in an advanced course.

Grandsons both took AP tests in math, passed them, and now take a math
course that is more difficult than the math course taken by others in
their grade who did not take and pass the test.

While there AP courses in other subjects, most of them are in the math
and science area.

[Mark Brader]

Mark Brader:
> > Whatever that is.

Haruto Tanaka (quoting collegeboard.com):

> The AP European History Exam measures students' knowledge of European

> history and their ability to think historically...

Ah. I had not previously seen "Euro" used as an abbreviation for
"European history".
--
Mark Brader | "You guys have your own pagan religion...
Toronto | Instead of sacrificing sheep, you sacrifice sleep."
m...@vex.net | -- John Cramer

[Peter Moylan]

P was still a planet when I was at school. It would be more trouble than
it's worth to unlearn the mnemonic. Mind you, by now I can recite the
planets' names in order without the need of any mnemonic.

In the majority of cases where I was taught a mnemonic, I have to use
the real information to re-derive the mnemonic. Reality, you might say,
is a mnemonic for the mnemonic.

God! I need a drink (alcoholic, of course) after all those lectures
involving radical equations.

[Peter Duncanson [BrE]]

On Tue, 14 Feb 2017 09:45:37 +0800, Robert Bannister
<rob...@clubtelco.com> wrote:

>On 14/2/17 6:28 am, Peter Duncanson [BrE] wrote:
>> On Mon, 13 Feb 2017 16:58:17 -0500, "Don Phillipson"
>> <e9...@SPAMBLOCK.ncf.ca> wrote:
>>
>>> "Don Phillipson" <e9...@SPAMBLOCK.ncf.ca> wrote in message
>>> news:o7t338$ae0$1...@news.albasani.net...
>>>
>>>> . . . [English schoolboys] thus maintained a
>>>> rhythmical list of the names as a mnemonic, beginning
>>>> "Willie, Willie, Harry, Ste . . ."
>>>
>>> Can anyone supply the rest? Someone asked me at lunchtime
>>> today but I could not help him.
>>
>> There are various versions here:
>> https://www.theguardian.com/notesandqueries/query/0,5753,-1999,00.html
>>
>>
>I thought this one was utterly brilliant, apart from the spelling or
>"reins":
>

That might be a deliberate pun. A reigning monarch "holds the reins" of
the country.

[RH Draney]

On 2/13/2017 11:52 PM, Peter Moylan wrote:
> On 2017-Feb-14 08:39, Jerry Friedman wrote:
>> On Sunday, February 12, 2017 at 9:15:39 PM UTC-7, Peter Moylan wrote:
>>>
>>> So do I. I also remember the name Mvem Jsunp, and it doesn't bother me
>>> at all that it's almost unpronounceable.
>>
>> It's more pronounceable without the p.
>
> P was still a planet when I was at school. It would be more trouble than
> it's worth to unlearn the mnemonic. Mind you, by now I can recite the
> planets' names in order without the need of any mnemonic.

I wonder if anyone's come up with an extended version that gives Sedna,
Ixion, Varuna and all that lot....

The one I learned for the zodiac was:

Ramble twins crab liverish,
Scaly scorpions are good water fish.

(I'm still trying to come up with a good one for the Chinese equivalent)....

> In the majority of cases where I was taught a mnemonic, I have to use
> the real information to re-derive the mnemonic. Reality, you might say,
> is a mnemonic for the mnemonic.

When I was little, some of the grownups in the family told me they could
remember our phone number by thinking of Pearl Harbor (after the prefix,
shared by every phone in town, the last four digits were 0741)...having
no experience of historical events at that young age, I used the phone
number to memorize the day that will live in infamy....r

[Richard Tobin]

In article <o7u9cm$cqn$1...@dont-email.me>,

Peter Moylan <pe...@pmoylan.org.invalid> wrote:

>God! I need a drink (alcoholic, of course) after all those lectures
>involving radical equations.

Now I, even I, would celebrate
in rhymes unapt the great immortal
Syracusan, rivaled nevermore,
who in his wondrous lore
passed on before
left men his guidance
how to circles mensurate.

-- Richard

[Jerry Friedman]

I feel sure Haruto Tanaka is talking about exams that high school
students take to get college credit (either to get into a more advanced
class, as the name says, or to avoid having to take a class required for
breadth). I had no idea there were exams called AP that kids your
grandson's age could take.

--
Jerry Friedman

[Tony Cooper]

Checking on whether or not middle school students can take AP tests, I
see that College Boards has registered "AP" as a trademark. Therefore,
I was wrong to say they took AP tests.

They did take tests, and the result of those tests were that they were
placed in an advanced class, but they were not "AP tests".

The site: http://www.collegeboard.com/html/apcourseaudit/faq.html says

"Can courses offered in middle school be labeled AP?

The AP designation may only be applied to courses offered at or above
the 9th grade level which have received authorization through the
annual AP Course Audit process. The AP label cannot be affixed to
courses and transcripts prior to 9th grade. There is one exception to
this policy: AP world language courses. These courses focus on
linguistic proficiency and cultural competency, so in rare situations
these courses can be successfully offered earlier than 9th grade among
students who can already speak, read, and write the language with
fluency. In summary, the AP Course Audit will only renew or authorize
courses that are offered exclusively in grades 9–12, with the
exception of AP world language programs."

[Peter T. Daniels]

On Tuesday, February 14, 2017 at 9:07:50 AM UTC-5, RH Draney wrote:

[mnemonics]

> The one I learned for the zodiac was:
>

> [The} Ramble twins crab liverish,

> Scaly scorpions are good water fish.

That's from H. A. Rey's *The Stars: A New Way to See Them* (yes, the creator
of Curious George), and, along with a way to pronounce the symbols of the
first 20 element sthat was devised by my classmate Roger Van Damme, maybe for
grade-school Earth Science, is the only mnemonic I've ever used. H'He LiBeB
C'NOFNe, NaMgAl SiPS ClArKCa.

[Haruto Tanaka]

On Tue, 14 Feb 2017 00:39:44 -0600, Mark Brader observed:

> Ah. I had not previously seen "Euro" used as an abbreviation for
> "European history".

There's AP euro and AP us so that's the common abbreviation.
:)

[Tony Cooper]

As a mild pointer to convention, the word should be capitalized (Euro
and US) when in that type of context.

[Sam Plusnet]

If Schleswig-Holstein was the question, what was the answer?

--
Sam Plusnet

[Robert Bannister]

Thanks for the information, but what gain is there in passing the exam
apart from personal satisfaction?

[Robert Bannister]

What sort of Danish did Bismarck prefer? Sorry, that was the question.

[snide...@gmail.com]

If it isn't obvious, the gain is determined by the school/institution to which
the testee is applying.

I took the Calculus Advanced Placement test during my high school career
(senior year), and was able to proceed directly to vector calculus
during my college freshman year. The Math 200 instructor took the AP calc
score into consideration when allowing or not.

I'd have been better off not doing so,
because I was wholly unprepared for proving epsilon balls given delta balls,
and I'm still trying to sort out Green's and Stokes' theorems.
And the first year text was Spivak,
and I wasn't smart enough to buy it off another student at the end of year.
(PDF versions are no available, though.)

/dps

[Tony Cooper]

On Wed, 15 Feb 2017 09:45:09 +0800, Robert Bannister

<rob...@clubtelco.com> wrote:

>On 14/2/17 11:13 am, Tony Cooper wrote:
>> On Tue, 14 Feb 2017 09:40:21 +0800, Robert Bannister
>> <rob...@clubtelco.com> wrote:
>>
>>> On 13/2/17 12:32 pm, Mark Brader wrote:
>>>> Haruto Tanaka:
>>>>> Pointless may it be; however the problem is that there are a ton of
>>>>> temporal tricky questions on the upcoming AP Euro exam.
>>>>
>>>> Whatever that is.
>>>>
>>> Google gives lots of information about the exam and "AP European
>>> History", but no word about what "AP" is - Agèd Persons?
>>
>> "AP", in the US when used in conjunction with a test, stands for
>> "Advanced Placement". Passing the test allows the student to be
>> placed in an advanced course.
>>
>> Grandsons both took AP tests in math, passed them, and now take a math
>> course that is more difficult than the math course taken by others in
>> their grade who did not take and pass the test.
>>
>> While there AP courses in other subjects, most of them are in the math
>> and science area.
>>
>Thanks for the information, but what gain is there in passing the exam
>apart from personal satisfaction?

I thought that was explained above. The gain is being able to take a
higher level math class. The gain in that is to do better in math
courses and to be prepared for higher level math courses in the next
grade.

Otherwise, they are stuck taking a class that doesn't stretch them at
all because that class is geared to those who can't pass the test.

[Rich Ulrich]

If I'm not conflating 'AP courses' from later knowledge of the term --
I entered college with some folks who took in high school what were
called AP courses -- college level courses, I believe. I now suspect
that taking the AP exam might have been the "final exam" if that
were available at course-end.

One extra reason for taking the courses, for the super-competitive
students, was to raise their grade point average /above/ the nominal
maximum of 4.0. That is, making "all A's" earned a GPA of 4.0; if you
made an A in an AP course, however, it counted toward your average
as a 5.

Thus, the class valedictorian could have an average above 4.0.

Apparently, that mattered in some big high schools with many hundreds
of graduates each year. I may have learned that from the fellow who
typed up his calculus notes, and who had taught himself to type at
80 words per minute because a typing class could not help his GPA.

--
Rich Ulrich

[Cheryl]

It sounds like the exams in Tony's grandson's schools were to identify
those who can do advanced courses. AP exams (and, I think, the
International Baccalaureate exams) are used locally as part of a system
to provide more advanced than normal courses in certain subjects. If the
students taking these courses pass the associated external exams, they
not only cover the material, but may be excused from taking some
university-level courses in the same field since they will have already
done the material.

--
Cheryl

[Tony Cooper]

Please understand that the tests my grandsons took were not the
College Board AP tests. I don't know who prepared their test. The
test may have been designed by the math teachers, the county school
board, or the state.

Regardless, the result was the same: the boys were placed in an
advanced math class.

I wasn't aware that the College Boards had registered "AP" as a
trademark of a particular set of tests.

[Cheryl]

Oh, yes, I understood that.

--
Cheryl

[Don Phillipson]

"Haruto Tanaka" <Tanaka...@asahi.net> wrote in message
news:o7q222$1tba$3...@adenine.netfront.net...

> > Silly mnemonics are sometimes the best.
>
> I still remember the silly off-color one for the 8 bones of the wrist:
> "Never Lower Tilly's Pants, Mother Might Come Home."

RAF flight cadets in the postwar years learned "Cadets Don't
Meet Virgins Twice" = Compass, Deviation, Magnetic,
Variation, True. You had to get these in the right order
to navigate accurately via compass and Mercator map
(before radio navigation aids appeared, or if they failed.)

[snide...@gmail.com]

Sadly, I had to learn "True virtue makes dull company".
And for dead reckoning calculations (and predicted log events)
the key form of address was "60 D STreet".

/dps

[GordonD]

On 13/02/2017 04:15, Peter Moylan wrote:
> On 2017-Feb-13 06:21, Haruto Tanaka wrote:
>> On Sun, 12 Feb 2017 20:16:27 +0100, occam observed:
>>
>>> My favourite is the Newtonian rainbow colour order: "Virgins In
>>> Bed Give You Odd Reactions"
>>>
>>> (Imparted to us by our Physics master way back in O Level days.)
>>
>> That's a good one. I just remember it as the word Roy-G-Biv.
>

> So do I. I also remember the name Mvem Jsunp, and it doesn't bother
> me at all that it's almost unpronounceable.
>

The Robert Heinlein juvenile novel 'Have Spacesuit - Will Travel'
includes the phrase "Mother Very Thoughtfully Made a Jelly Sandwich
Under No Protest". (The 'T' is for 'Terra' and the 'a' represents the
asteroid belt.)
--
Gordon Davie
Edinburgh, Scotland

[Robert Bannister]

On 15/2/17 11:27 am, snide...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Tuesday, February 14, 2017 at 5:45:15 PM UTC-8, Robert Bannister wrote:
>> On 14/2/17 11:13 am, Tony Cooper wrote:
>>> On Tue, 14 Feb 2017 09:40:21 +0800, Robert Bannister
>>> <rob...@clubtelco.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 13/2/17 12:32 pm, Mark Brader wrote:
>>>>> Haruto Tanaka:
>>>>>> Pointless may it be; however the problem is that there are a ton of
>>>>>> temporal tricky questions on the upcoming AP Euro exam.
>>>>>
>>>>> Whatever that is.
>>>>>
>>>> Google gives lots of information about the exam and "AP European
>>>> History", but no word about what "AP" is - Agèd Persons?
>>>
>>> "AP", in the US when used in conjunction with a test, stands for
>>> "Advanced Placement". Passing the test allows the student to be
>>> placed in an advanced course.
>>>
>>> Grandsons both took AP tests in math, passed them, and now take a math
>>> course that is more difficult than the math course taken by others in
>>> their grade who did not take and pass the test.
>>>
>>> While there AP courses in other subjects, most of them are in the math
>>> and science area.
>>>
>> Thanks for the information, but what gain is there in passing the exam
>> apart from personal satisfaction?
>
> If it isn't obvious, the gain is determined by the school/institution to which
> the testee is applying.

I am only used to institutions stipulating what qualifications they want
to see. I don't think I've come across any privately administered
qualifications being acceptable, but I have led a cloistered life.

>
> I took the Calculus Advanced Placement test during my high school career
> (senior year), and was able to proceed directly to vector calculus
> during my college freshman year. The Math 200 instructor took the AP calc
> score into consideration when allowing or not.
>
> I'd have been better off not doing so,
> because I was wholly unprepared for proving epsilon balls given delta balls,
> and I'm still trying to sort out Green's and Stokes' theorems.
> And the first year text was Spivak,
> and I wasn't smart enough to buy it off another student at the end of year.
> (PDF versions are no available, though.)
>
> /dps
>

[Robert Bannister]

Back then, not knowing the American meaning of "jelly" at that age, I
had a very wobbly perception of what "jelly sandwich" might mean.

[Snidely]

On Wednesday, Robert Bannister exclaimed wildly:

For shipboard purposes, perhaps naval jelly, but I wouldn't eat that
sandwich.

/dps "spaceship, that is"

--
Killing a mouse was hardly a Nobel Prize-worthy exercise, and Lawrence
went apopleptic when he learned a lousy rodent had peed away all his
precious heavy water.
_The Disappearing Spoon_, Sam Kean

[Snidely]

Snidely explained :

> On Wednesday, Robert Bannister exclaimed wildly:
>> On 16/2/17 5:59 am, GordonD wrote:
>>> On 13/02/2017 04:15, Peter Moylan wrote:
>>>> On 2017-Feb-13 06:21, Haruto Tanaka wrote:
>>>>> On Sun, 12 Feb 2017 20:16:27 +0100, occam observed:
>>>>>
>>>>>> My favourite is the Newtonian rainbow colour order: "Virgins In
>>>>>> Bed Give You Odd Reactions"
>>>>>>
>>>>>> (Imparted to us by our Physics master way back in O Level days.)
>>>>>
>>>>> That's a good one. I just remember it as the word Roy-G-Biv.
>>>>
>>>> So do I. I also remember the name Mvem Jsunp, and it doesn't bother
>>>> me at all that it's almost unpronounceable.
>>>>
>>>
>>> The Robert Heinlein juvenile novel 'Have Spacesuit - Will Travel'
>>> includes the phrase "Mother Very Thoughtfully Made a Jelly Sandwich
>>> Under No Protest". (The 'T' is for 'Terra' and the 'a' represents the
>>> asteroid belt.)
>>
>> Back then, not knowing the American meaning of "jelly" at that age, I had a
>> very wobbly perception of what "jelly sandwich" might mean.
>
> For shipboard purposes, perhaps naval jelly, but I wouldn't eat that
> sandwich.
>
> /dps "spaceship, that is"

Also, I'd consider _Have Spacesuit, Will Travel_ to be a Young Adult
rather than a Juvenile. It's for an older crowd than _Rocketship
Galileo_ is. I'd put it alongside _Door Into Summer_, but slightly
newer.

/dps

--
"What do you think of my cart, Miss Morland? A neat one, is not it?
Well hung: curricle-hung in fact. Come sit by me and we'll test the
springs."
(Speculative fiction by H.Lacedaemonian.)

[Snidely]

Remember when Robert Bannister bragged outrageously? That was
Wednesday:

Educational Testing Services is a private corporation (and for-profit,
IIRC), but it is the standard for college placement tests in the US.
The SAT is one of their products, the APs another, and various
grad-school entrance exams, as well. (LSAT for legals; curiously, I've
forgotten what the Physics Grad tests were called, even though I took
them. Not PSAT, as that was the "junior year" version of the SAT.)

Just about all accredited colleges and universities in the US require
that the scores be submitted, and many use the scores to narrow down
the candidates they consider.

ETS also provides various standardized tests used in grades K-12, but
the use of those is far less universal.

Always have a bunch of No. 2 pencils ready when entering a test
session. Test sessions will be proctored, not necessarily by a
proctologist. Your scores will be available 3-6 weeks after the test
session. For the SAT, you can have the scores forwarded automatically
to two institutions. Submitting them to additional institutions may
involve additional fees.

/dps

[Rich Ulrich]

On Wed, 15 Feb 2017 22:27:35 -0800, Snidely <snide...@gmail.com>
wrote:

>
>Educational Testing Services is a private corporation (and for-profit,
>IIRC), but it is the standard for college placement tests in the US.
>The SAT is one of their products, the APs another, and various
>grad-school entrance exams, as well. (LSAT for legals; curiously, I've
>forgotten what the Physics Grad tests were called, even though I took
>them. Not PSAT, as that was the "junior year" version of the SAT.)
>
>Just about all accredited colleges and universities in the US require
>that the scores be submitted, and many use the scores to narrow down
>the candidates they consider.

The ACT is a competitor to the SAT. It used to be that the SAT
was required by the schools with national appeal whereas the ACT
was more popular with more regional appeal.

Narrowing down.
I have read in recent years that some universities have lessened
their reliance on standardized tests, and, as part of that, some
universities will accept either set of scores. When I matriculated
50+ years ago, the main criterion at Rice (an exclusive school) was
reportedly the class rank, especially for a large high school or a
school with a reputation. That being so, it took a particularly
high score to get admitted if you came a small, unknown school.

IIRC, scholarship atheletes at major universities do need to score
above a specific (and rather low) level, by rules of the NCAA
(National Collegiate Athletic Association). Any other cutoffs are
as high or low (or as firm) as the school decides. So-called
"legacy admissions" were criticized a few decades ago (bending
standards for alumni, especially big contributors). I expect that
they have not totally disappeared. For the most popular schools,
I expect that "legacy" is no assurance, these days.

--
Rich Ulrich

[Peter T. Daniels]

On Thursday, February 16, 2017 at 1:27:41 AM UTC-5, Snidely wrote:

> Educational Testing Services is a private corporation (and for-profit,
> IIRC), but it is the standard for college placement tests in the US.
> The SAT is one of their products, the APs another, and various
> grad-school entrance exams, as well. (LSAT for legals; curiously, I've
> forgotten what the Physics Grad tests were called, even though I took
> them. Not PSAT, as that was the "junior year" version of the SAT.)

GRE (Graduate Record Exam). Happily, there wasn't one for linguistics.

[GordonD]

I'm not sure if the term 'Young Adult' was around when the books were
written. They were marketed as 'Juveniles'.

[Snidely]

GordonD is guilty of <egp138...@mid.individual.net> as of 2/17/2017
11:26:33 AM

_HS,WT_ is a later book than _RG_, and definitely aimed at an older
crowd ... probably early high schoolers (15 yo), rather than 5th
graders (10 yo), even if librarians and book sellers weren't using the
"Young Adult" label yet.

Thicker book, a longer plot. _Farmer In The Sky_ is somewhere between.
_Starship Troopers_ is somewhere beyond. The short story "Coventry"
is intended for genuine adult nerds. The short stories "A Crooked
House" and "All You Apes" are for GANs, too, but are intended to be
enjoyed rather than chewed. _Waldo_ is probably Young Adult. _Magic,
Inc_ (often bound with _Waldo_) might be a light GAN book.

/dps

--
Trust, but verify.

[GordonD]

Starship Troopers wasn't marketed as a juvenile because Heinlein's
editor thought it was too adult. It was his first novel in years that
was treated as a "normal" book. After that we had the likes of Farnham's
Freehold, The Moon is a Harsh Mistress and <shudder> I Will Fear No
Evil, which are definitely *not* aimed at juveniles.

[Whiskers]

Is this about the Diet of Worms?

--
-- ^^^^^^^^^^
-- Whiskers
-- ~~~~~~~~~~

[Whiskers]

On 2017-02-12, Haruto Tanaka <Tanaka...@asahi.net> wrote:
> On Sun, 12 Feb 2017 20:16:27 +0100, occam observed:
>
>> My favourite is the Newtonian rainbow colour order:
>> "Virgins In Bed Give You Odd Reactions"
>>
>> (Imparted to us by our Physics master way back in O Level days.)
>
> That's a good one.
> I just remember it as the word Roy-G-Biv.

Reverting to the historical theme of this thread, 'Richard of York gave
battle in vain'.

[Tony Cooper]

On Fri, 17 Feb 2017 23:29:02 -0800, Snidely <snide...@gmail.com>
wrote:

I think the John R. Tunis books I checked out from the library when I
was in grade school were on the "Young Readers" shelf.

[Robert Bannister]

He started going wrong when he attempted to write for adults.

[Robert Bannister]

But with juvenile attitude towards sex.

[RH Draney]

On 2/18/2017 6:35 PM, Robert Bannister wrote:
> On 18/2/17 3:29 pm, Snidely wrote:
>> GordonD is guilty of <egp138...@mid.individual.net> as of 2/17/2017
>> 11:26:33 AM
>>>

>>> I'm not sure if the term 'Young Adult' was around when the books were
>>> written. They were marketed as 'Juveniles'.
>>
>> _HS,WT_ is a later book than _RG_, and definitely aimed at an older
>> crowd ... probably early high schoolers (15 yo), rather than 5th graders
>> (10 yo), even if librarians and book sellers weren't using the "Young
>> Adult" label yet.
>>
>> Thicker book, a longer plot. _Farmer In The Sky_ is somewhere between.
>> _Starship Troopers_ is somewhere beyond. The short story "Coventry" is
>> intended for genuine adult nerds. The short stories "A Crooked House"
>> and "All You Apes" are for GANs, too, but are intended to be enjoyed
>> rather than chewed. _Waldo_ is probably Young Adult. _Magic, Inc_
>> (often bound with _Waldo_) might be a light GAN book.
>
> He started going wrong when he attempted to write for adults.

Was that when Puddin' became Podkayne?...r

[GordonD]

That was the one my dad (a printer to trade) taught me. One I recall
from a children's TV show was "Very Important Big German Yacht On Rhine".