To drag - drug - drug
Christian Weisgerber
attacking a diver) on US TV. Dictionaries agree that "drug" as
past tense of "to drag" is non-standard, either by explicitly
mentioning it as such or by not listing it at all. Still, I was
only semi-surprised at hearing it, so I probably encountered it
before, and the number of Google hits suggests that it is quite
common--the past participle "drug" less so.
Any comments? Is this irregular past tense an old survivor or a
new development?
--
Christian "naddy" Weisgerber na...@mips.inka.de
ray o'hara
"Christian Weisgerber" <na...@mips.inka.de> wrote in message
news:di6su3$18ou$1...@kemoauc.mips.inka.de...
It's hillbilly speak..
Raymond S. Wise
"Drug" as a past tense of "drag" is not mentioned in *The Century
Dictionary,* an American dictionary of 1895 at
www.century-dictionary.com , so it looks as if it isn't an old
survivor. However, James J. Kilpatrick, born in 1920, says the
following in a column entitled "Something the Cat Drug In" at
http://www.uexpress.com/coveringthecourts/?uc_full_date=20001224
"As a boy I used to tease my older sister by saying she looked like
something the cat drug in, but that was kid stuff."
I assume this use of "drug" was not an invention of his, but was a
repeat of a usage that he had heard others use.
--
Raymond S. Wise
Minneapolis, Minnesota USA
E-mail: mplsray @ yahoo . com
Joachim Pense
Could "drag" be cognate to German "tragen"? If so, the "drug" would fit to
tragen, trug, getragen.
Joachim
J. J. Lodder
Or Dutch: Dragen, droeg, gedragen.
But the meaning doesn't match:
'dragen/tragen' translates to 'to carry' not to 'to drag'.
Best,
Jan
John Lawler
>Joachim Pense <spam-co...@pense-online.de> writes:
>>Christian Weisgerber schreibt
>> > I recently came across a line like "it drug him down?" (of a monster
>> > attacking a diver) on US TV. Dictionaries agree that "drug" as
>> > past tense of "to drag" is non-standard, either by explicitly
>> > mentioning it as such or by not listing it at all. Still, I was
>> > only semi-surprised at hearing it, so I probably encountered it
>> > before, and the number of Google hits suggests that it is quite
>> > common--the past participle "drug" less so.
>> > Any comments? Is this irregular past tense an old survivor or a
>> > new development?
>> Could "drag" be cognate to German "tragen"? If so, the "drug" would fit to
>> tragen, trug, getragen.
>Or Dutch: Dragen, droeg, gedragen.
>But the meaning doesn't match:
>'dragen/tragen' translates to 'to carry' not to 'to drag'.
Meanings change. So do words.
Here's what the OED says:
[Not known before 15th c. A derivative of OE. dra{asg}an, or ON. draga (Sw.
draga, Da. drage) to DRAW. Perh. a special northern dialect-form in which
the g has been preserved instead of forming a diphthong with the prec. a, as
in English generally: cf. Jos. Wright, Dialect of Windhill 102. See also
DRUG v.1]
Under DRUG v.1 'To pull forcibly, to drag. (trans. and intr.)', it says:
[Common from c 1500 in Sc.; also in mod.Eng. dialects. Of uncertain origin.
In Sc. and Eng. dial. use, app. a variant of DRAG v.; but the two ME.
instances are earlier than any known examples of drag, and may have some
different origin. One or both may possibly belong to DRUDGE v., of which,
also, drugge was an early spelling.]
The two ME examples of DRUG v.1 are:
a1240 Lofsong in Cott. Hom. 207 Bi his owune rode, on his softe schuldres,
so herde druggunge.
c1386 CHAUCER Knt.'s T. 558 At the gate he profreth his seruyse
To drugge [Camb. MS. drogge] and drawe what so men wol deuyse.
Executive summary: "Drug" has been around *longer* than "drag".
Also, there's a *lot* of variation in English.
-John Lawler http://www.umich.edu/~jlawler
------------------------------------------------
"Ye knowe ek, that in forme of speche is chaunge
Withinne a thousand yer, and wordes tho
That hadden prys now wonder nyce and straunge
Us thenketh hem, and yet they spake hem so.
And spedde as wel in love as men now do."
-- Geoffrey Chaucer
Troylus and Criseyde II, 22-6
Holger Metzger
Not really much difference between German "tragen" and English "to
drag". The Old High German word is "dragan" or "tragan", which meant to
pull/to carry something (Latin is not far away: "trahere" means exactly
the same). It seems that modern German kept one meaning and English and
Scandinavian languages the other; narrowing of meaning is normal in any
language.
--
Holger
Christian Weisgerber
> Could "drag" be cognate to German "tragen"?
Apparently it is. At least etymonline.com--how well regarded are
they in this group?--says it's a loan from Old Norse or a dialectal
variant of Old English "dragan", which also gave "draw", and Duden
Vol. 7 lists "tragen" and "draw" as related.
> If so, the "drug" would fit to tragen, trug, getragen.
Indeed, but I don't know how significant this resemblance is.
Holger Metzger
> Apparently it is. At least etymonline.com--how well regarded are
> they in this group?--says it's a loan from Old Norse or a dialectal
> variant of Old English "dragan", which also gave "draw", and Duden
> Vol. 7 lists "tragen" and "draw" as related.
OED and Kluge ("Etymologisches Wörterbuch der deutschen Sprache")
suggest almost the same. Semantically , as I mentioned in an earlier
post, Latin "trahere" is also close.
--
Holger
Wayne Brown
> Could "drag" be cognate to German "tragen"? If so, the "drug" would
> fit to tragen, trug, getragen.
Probably. German etymologists point to the possibility, noting that the root
word meaning "carry," as in modern German, took on the meaning of "pull" in
English and northern Germanic languages. The Shorter Oxford English
Dictionary (SOED) also lists the verb "drug," giving the meaning as "pull,
drag" and saying "long obsolete" except in dialect. Another contributor has
mentioned the persistent "something the cat drug in" for the standard
"something the cat dragged in" (My God, what happened to you? You look like
something the cat drug in). In AmE dialects, "drug" hangs on, especially in
certain set phases (He was so tired he drug his feet all the way home).
This reminds me of verb forms that rhyme, namely hang and hung. Generations
of American schoolchildren learned in English classes that "the judge
ordered the murderer to be hung" was illiterate usage. Today,
Merriam-Webster Online says the usage is standard but "hanged is most
appropriate for official executions." English's close relative German
theoretically could have the same difficulties with "hängen," but for some
reason the problem didn't arise.
Regards, ----- WB.
Alan Jones
"John Lawler" <jla...@umich.edu> wrote in message
news:W%N1f.543$yb2...@news.itd.umich.edu...
If NSOED says the same as OED, bur more briefly, then this verb is a
distinct verb "to drug", not the past tense of "to drag". NSOED says the
two verbs _may_ be related. "Drug" instead of "dragged" in BrE is either
jocular or dialectal somewhere unknown to me; it isn't the UK equivalent of
"redneck" speech.
Alan Jones
Joachim Pense
Didn't it? We have "hängen, hängte, gehängt" (transitive), and "hängen,
hing, gehangen" (intransitive), the first being the causative to the
latter. In regional usage and in many examples from the literature, the
"hängen, hing, gehangen" version is used as transitive (causative) form as
well, but this usage is considered illiterate.
Joachim
Christian Weisgerber
> This reminds me of verb forms that rhyme, namely hang and hung. Generations
> of American schoolchildren learned in English classes that "the judge
> ordered the murderer to be hung" was illiterate usage. Today,
> Merriam-Webster Online says the usage is standard but "hanged is most
> appropriate for official executions." English's close relative German
> theoretically could have the same difficulties with "hängen," but for some
> reason the problem didn't arise.
Oh, but the same problem does appear in German. Intransitive
"hängen" is a strong verb (hing, gehangen), transitive "hängen" is
weak (hängte, gehängt). Probably these are two different verbs--the
transitive usage continuing an ancient causative formation--that
have partially collapsed. Both forms are increasingly confused as
evidenced by discussions on de.etc.sprache.deutsch.
For the execution method, there is also confusion between "hängen"
and "henken".
Chris Waigl
> Not really much difference between German "tragen" and English "to
> drag". The Old High German word is "dragan" or "tragan", which meant to
> pull/to carry something (Latin is not far away: "trahere" means exactly
> the same). It seems that modern German kept one meaning and English and
> Scandinavian languages the other; narrowing of meaning is normal in any
> language.
Grimm's Wörterbuch agrees:
<http://germazope.uni-trier.de/Projects/WBB/woerterbuecher/dwb/selectarticles?lemid=GT07310>
Chris Waigl
--
blog: http://serendipity.lascribe.net/
eggcorns: http://eggcorns.lascribe.net/
Robert Bannister
But German has 2 "hang" verbs. They both have the infinitive "hängen",
but the transitive past participle is "gehängt"; the intransitive
"gehangen". English only has 2 verbs for "sit/set" and "lie/lay". We
have to use "stand" and "hang" for both transitive and intransitive usage.
--
Rob Bannister