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Non-English US Proper Name Pronunciation: 'Boisfeuillet'!

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Halcombe

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May 28, 2006, 12:49:12 PM5/28/06
to
One Boisfeuillet Jones, Jr. is CEO of the Washington Post.

How in Jesu's name do you pronounce that Chrisian name?

If it were the name of a Frenchman, I'd have no difficulty in saying,
'bwa-foy-yay'.

Since he's American, I haven't a clue. 'Boys-fill-it'? 'Boze-fill-it'?
'Boze-fill-eh'?

No wonder he's got a nickname ('Bo')!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boisfeuillet_Jones%2C_Jr.

mb

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May 28, 2006, 1:33:00 PM5/28/06
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Halcombe wrote:
> One Boisfeuillet Jones, Jr. is CEO of the Washington Post.
>
> How in Jesu's name do you pronounce that Chrisian name?

Even if the guy had as much religion as a US politician, his last names
are not Christian names.

> If it were the name of a Frenchman, I'd have no difficulty in saying,
> 'bwa-foy-yay'.
> Since he's American, I haven't a clue. 'Boys-fill-it'? 'Boze-fill-it'?
> 'Boze-fill-eh'?

Seems that the general rule in the US is to pronounce last names as in
their original language unless the bearer of the name explicitly
instructs you otherwise, by voice or some spelling pronunciation. Ask
him.

Also, he's been very charitable in providing an alternative name,
Jones. Chances are that one doesn't start with a French [Z].

mb

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May 28, 2006, 2:52:27 PM5/28/06
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mb wrote:

some nonsense, assuming that it was a double-barrelled last name.

It is, as you already suggested, the guy's first name! Wow. Almost
worse than naming your daughter Kimberly or Mackenzie.

I'd say don't pronounce it. The subject doesn't expect it: He sensibly
provided the alternative, Bo.

CDB

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May 28, 2006, 3:24:40 PM5/28/06
to
Halcombe wrote:
> One Boisfeuillet Jones, Jr. is CEO of the Washington Post.
>
> How in Jesu's name do you pronounce that Chrisian name?
[...]

According to Google Emory University, where BJ Sr. was an alumnus,
says "BO-fill-lay". Of course, the NY Times says "bwah-fwee-YAY". I
would go with the first one, because the second one sounds silly.


Gene E. Bloch

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May 29, 2006, 9:13:32 PM5/29/06
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On 5/28/2006, CDB posted this:

And anyway, in French the middle syllable would sound more like fur
does in Boston, i.e., *without* the r; I'll notate it as fu(r). So we
get Bwah-fu(r)-YAY. (It would help if I had an IPA font here.)

Years ago, I went into a camera store and asked if they had a battery
for my Beaulieu camera; I said Boh-liU(R). "Never heard of it" was the
reply. Not being a complete dolt (I claim), I asked if they had a
battery for a Ba-LOO, and that they did have...

Some years later it might have worked; for a while, the Beaulieu
winery, which is not far from here, advertised their wine with lessons
on how to pronounce their name.

Gino

--
Gene E. Bloch (Gino)
letters617blochg3251
(replace the numbers by "at" and "dotcom")


CDB

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May 29, 2006, 11:17:22 PM5/29/06
to
Gene E. Bloch wrote:
> On 5/28/2006, CDB posted this:
>> Halcombe wrote:
>>> One Boisfeuillet Jones, Jr. is CEO of the Washington Post.
>>>
>>> How in Jesu's name do you pronounce that Chrisian name?
>> [...]
[boofly]

> Some years later it might have worked; for a while, the Beaulieu
> winery, which is not far from here, advertised their wine with
> lessons on how to pronounce their name.

Bewley?


Gene E. Bloch

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May 29, 2006, 11:46:09 PM5/29/06
to
On 5/29/2006, CDB posted this:

Truly.

The vintner did not really say boh-liUH, but BOH-liuh, or even had
nearly equal stress on the two syllables, IIRC.

I like boofly. It's the most fun thing so far in this thread, IMO.

CDB

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May 30, 2006, 1:05:09 AM5/30/06
to
Gene E. Bloch wrote:
> On 5/29/2006, CDB posted this:
>> Gene E. Bloch wrote:
>>> On 5/28/2006, CDB posted this:
>>>> Halcombe wrote:
>>>>> One Boisfeuillet Jones, Jr. is CEO of the Washington Post.
>>>>>
>>>>> How in Jesu's name do you pronounce that Chrisian name?
>>>> [...]
>> [boofly]
>>> Some years later it might have worked; for a while, the Beaulieu
>>> winery, which is not far from here, advertised their wine with
>>> lessons on how to pronounce their name.
>>
>> Bewley?
>
> Truly.
>
> The vintner did not really say boh-liUH, but BOH-liuh, or even had
> nearly equal stress on the two syllables, IIRC.

I come from Ottawa ON, on the Quebec border. French words are
pronounced by local anglos more or less correctly but with English
stress patterns, as in your second example. Stress in French is
almost equally distributed, but the tone changes on the last syllable
of an utterance: I think this gives English speakers the idea that
it's stressed more strongly than it really is.


>
> I like boofly. It's the most fun thing so far in this thread, IMO.

It's like shoofly, except you throw a scare into the miserable little
invetebrates.


Oleg Lego

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May 30, 2006, 2:26:00 AM5/30/06
to
The Gene E. Bloch entity posted thusly:

>Years ago, I went into a camera store and asked if they had a battery
>for my Beaulieu camera; I said Boh-liU(R). "Never heard of it" was the
>reply. Not being a complete dolt (I claim), I asked if they had a
>battery for a Ba-LOO, and that they did have...

A few years ago, I went to an auction with a friend. He asked me if
I'd had a look at the "bel-air'-us", I was puzzled, and he finally
pointed it out to me. Turned out it was a tractor, brand name
"Belarus", which I had taken as having the same pronunciation as the
country ( bel-a-roos' ).

R H Draney

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May 30, 2006, 2:47:22 AM5/30/06
to
CDB filted:

>
>Gene E. Bloch wrote:
>>
>> Some years later it might have worked; for a while, the Beaulieu
>> winery, which is not far from here, advertised their wine with
>> lessons on how to pronounce their name.
>
>Bewley?

I seem to recall that Elvis Presley's widow, whose maiden name this was,
pronounces it just that way....r


--
It's the crack on the wall and the stain on the cup that gets to you
in the very end...every cat has its fall when it runs out of luck,
so you can do with a touch of zen...cause when you're screwed,
you're screwed...and when it's blue, it's blue.

CDB

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May 30, 2006, 9:18:39 AM5/30/06
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R H Draney wrote:
> CDB filted:
>>
>> Gene E. Bloch wrote:
>>>
>>> Some years later it might have worked; for a while, the Beaulieu
>>> winery, which is not far from here, advertised their wine with
>>> lessons on how to pronounce their name.
>>
>> Bewley?
>
> I seem to recall that Elvis Presley's widow, whose maiden name this
> was, pronounces it just that way....r

So do they in the Mother Country, I believe.


Mike Lyle

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May 30, 2006, 10:40:07 AM5/30/06
to

They do indeed. I'd probably expect a British Boisfeuillet, were I ever
to hear of one, to pronounce it "Bofflet".

--
Mike.

HVS

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May 30, 2006, 10:44:48 AM5/30/06
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On 30 May 2006, Mike Lyle wrote

Or perhaps even dropping the "l", and ending up with "Buffet".

--
Cheers, Harvey

Canadian and British English, indiscriminately mixed
For e-mail, change harvey.news to harvey.van

Mike Lyle

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May 30, 2006, 10:52:14 AM5/30/06
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HVS wrote:
> On 30 May 2006, Mike Lyle wrote
>
> >
> > CDB wrote:
> >> R H Draney wrote:
> >>> CDB filted:
> >>>>
> >>>> Gene E. Bloch wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Some years later it might have worked; for a while, the
> >>>>> Beaulieu winery, which is not far from here, advertised
> >>>>> their wine with lessons on how to pronounce their name.
> >>>>
> >>>> Bewley?
> >>>
> >>> I seem to recall that Elvis Presley's widow, whose maiden
> >>> name this was, pronounces it just that way....r
> >>
> >> So do they in the Mother Country, I believe.
> >
> > They do indeed. I'd probably expect a British Boisfeuillet,
> > were I ever to hear of one, to pronounce it "Bofflet".
>
> Or perhaps even dropping the "l", and ending up with "Buffet".
>
That was the cadet branch. Went to America and made pots of money in
trade, or something ghastly like that.

--
Mike.

HVS

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May 30, 2006, 11:28:04 AM5/30/06
to

That reminds me of the Earls of Cottenham, whose surname was
(is?) Pepys. It's specified in Burke's as being pronounced "pep-
pis" -- undoubtedly so that the senior branch of the family
wouldn't be overshadowed by the prevailing association with that
upstart grandson-of-a-5th-son of the line.

Gene E. Bloch

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May 30, 2006, 1:34:31 PM5/30/06
to

Oh, dear. I thought it was pronounced to rhyme with 'truly' or
'aloofly' ... My bad (but what the hell, it was fun).

I note you were careful to say "the last syllable of an *utterance*".
Yes.

In these parts (I'm not sure if I mean just California or the whole
US), most people accent any foreign word on the last syllable, often
with pretty strong stress, which grates enormously on my pedantic ear
(the left one).

So we have a classical disk jockey saying, for example, DohnanYI and
PachelBEL, and even a sportscaster whose name is shown on-screen as
Ibañez (sic - note the unaccented a) referring to a baseball player as
ChaVEZ.

OK, that's enough complaining for now :-)

Gene E. Bloch

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May 30, 2006, 1:37:31 PM5/30/06
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On 5/29/2006, Oleg Lego posted this:

Add to that the local newscaster (San Francisco area) who referred to
the county as Belaroo, accent on the roo...

Whatever.

Richard R. Hershberger

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May 30, 2006, 1:38:53 PM5/30/06
to

mb wrote:
> mb wrote:
>
> some nonsense, assuming that it was a double-barrelled last name.
>
> It is, as you already suggested, the guy's first name! Wow. Almost
> worse than naming your daughter Kimberly or Mackenzie.

Far worse. Yes, Kimberly and Mackenzie were not common girls' names a
hundred years ago. They are today. (Well, Kimberly is perfectly
standard. Mackenzie is unsurprising but a bit twee to my ear.)
Furthermore, for all that they are non-traditional, they fit within the
standard morphology of girls' names.

Richard R. Hershberger

Father Ignatius

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May 30, 2006, 3:05:12 PM5/30/06
to
"Gene E. Bloch" <spam...@nobody.invalid> wrote in message
news:mn.ecde7d65d...@nobody.invalid...

> On 5/29/2006, CDB posted this:
>> Gene E. Bloch wrote:
>>> On 5/28/2006, CDB posted this:
>>>> Halcombe wrote:
>>>>> One Boisfeuillet Jones, Jr. is CEO of the Washington Post.
>>>>>
>>>>> How in Jesu's name do you pronounce that Chrisian name?
>>>> [...]
>> [boofly]
>>> Some years later it might have worked; for a while, the Beaulieu
>>> winery, which is not far from here, advertised their wine with
>>> lessons on how to pronounce their name.
>>
>> Bewley?
>
> Truly.

"Now Israel may say, and that treaulieu..."

Gene E. Bloch

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May 30, 2006, 5:10:08 PM5/30/06
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On 5/30/2006, Father Ignatius posted this:

Looks like you're using my spell-checker.

No, I'm just trying to foulieu.

J. J. Lodder

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May 30, 2006, 5:29:02 PM5/30/06
to
CDB <belle...@sympatico.ca> wrote:

His fellow students called him Boo-folly?

Jan

Peter Moylan

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May 30, 2006, 8:09:14 PM5/30/06
to
HVS wrote:
> On 30 May 2006, Mike Lyle wrote
>
>> They do indeed. I'd probably expect a British Boisfeuillet,
>> were I ever to hear of one, to pronounce it "Bofflet".
>
> Or perhaps even dropping the "l", and ending up with "Buffet".
>
Within a few generations it might even turn into "Bucket".

--
Peter Moylan http://www.pmoylan.org

Please note the changed e-mail and web addresses. The domain
eepjm.newcastle.edu.au no longer exists, and I can no longer
reliably receive mail at my newcastle.edu.au addresses.
The optusnet address still has about 2 months of life left.

CDB

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May 30, 2006, 8:00:03 PM5/30/06
to

Only when he behaved radly.


ray o'hara

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May 30, 2006, 8:34:36 PM5/30/06
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"Gene E. Bloch" <spam...@nobody.invalid> wrote in message
news:mn.ec457d65b...@nobody.invalid...

> On 5/28/2006, CDB posted this:
> > Halcombe wrote:
> >> One Boisfeuillet Jones, Jr. is CEO of the Washington Post.
> >>
> >> How in Jesu's name do you pronounce that Chrisian name?
> > [...]
> >
> > According to Google Emory University, where BJ Sr. was an alumnus, says
> > "BO-fill-lay". Of course, the NY Times says "bwah-fwee-YAY". I would
go
> > with the first one, because the second one sounds silly.
>
> And anyway, in French the middle syllable would sound more like fur
> does in Boston, i.e., *without* the r; I'll notate it as fu(r). So we
> get Bwah-fu(r)-YAY. (It would help if I had an IPA font here.)

Actually in Boston the R would be said in fur. It's after A that the R is
dropped. The A is broadened and the R dropped.


Roland Hutchinson

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May 31, 2006, 12:05:25 AM5/31/06
to
Peter Moylan wrote:

> HVS wrote:
>> On 30 May 2006, Mike Lyle wrote
>>
>>> They do indeed. I'd probably expect a British Boisfeuillet,
>>> were I ever to hear of one, to pronounce it "Bofflet".
>>
>> Or perhaps even dropping the "l", and ending up with "Buffet".
>>
> Within a few generations it might even turn into "Bucket".

It's "Bouquet".

--
Roland Hutchinson              Will play viola da gamba for food.

NB mail to my.spamtrap [at] verizon.net is heavily filtered to
remove spam.  If your message looks like spam I may not see it.

Gene E. Bloch

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May 31, 2006, 12:53:35 AM5/31/06
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On 5/30/2006, ray o'hara posted this:

OK, then the way Bostonians would say it if they *did* drop the r in
fur :-)

I should have just made up the right IPA symbol in ASCII art, I guess.

Here are three symbols from the Windows character map that might have
the right meaning, but unfortunately might appear incorrectly on many
screens:

Ö Ø Œ [1]

I think those are all close to what I wanted to convey.

[1] If they didn't print right for you, they are o-umlaut (German or
Hungarian), o with a slash through it (Scandinavian), and the o-e
ligature (French).

Further corrections are welcome.

I was not originally from Boston, and I left there in '66 or '67, so I
evidently have managed to forget some details about the accent - sorry.

OTOH, I remember that my ex-wife, a non-Bostonian, had taught math in a
suburban high school (I forget which one - it was before I met her),
and learned that if she pronounced 'four' and 'for' both as one
syllable, the students had trouble understanding her. If she pronounced
the number as /foh-er/ and the preposition as /fawr/, they *could*
understand her, even though she (unlike her pupils) did pronounce the
/r/ in both cases.

To me, the word 'modern' always sounded like /morden/ in the Boston
area.

CDB

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May 31, 2006, 1:17:42 AM5/31/06
to
Gene E. Bloch wrote:
> On 5/29/2006, CDB posted this:
>> Gene E. Bloch wrote:
[...]

>>> I like boofly. It's the most fun thing so far in this thread, IMO.
>>
>> It's like shoofly, except you throw a scare into the miserable
>> little invetebrates.
>
> Oh, dear. I thought it was pronounced to rhyme with 'truly' or
> 'aloofly' ... My bad (but what the hell, it was fun).

The bad was all mine. Pronunciation of imaginary words is optional,
but I would be willing to compromise on ['bU fli]: Man, what a geek.
Toadally boofly. (If you haven't looked at Evan Kirshenbaum's
adaptation of the IPA to usenet use, you'll find it on the website;
it's required for the decipherment of some posts.)

If you heard someone say "mi malo", would you think it was Spanish for
"my bad", Spanish with a slight speech impediment for "real bad", or
Latin for "it is for a bad thing to me"?


Salvatore Volatile

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May 31, 2006, 6:12:17 AM5/31/06
to
Gene E Bloch wrote:
> To me, the word 'modern' always sounded like /morden/ in the Boston
> area.

Not quite. It's "mwahden".


--
Salvatore Volatile

Gene E. Bloch

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May 31, 2006, 2:14:23 PM5/31/06
to
On 5/30/2006, CDB posted this:

> Gene E. Bloch wrote:
>> On 5/29/2006, CDB posted this:
>>> Gene E. Bloch wrote:
> [...]
>>>> I like boofly. It's the most fun thing so far in this thread, IMO.
>>>
>>> It's like shoofly, except you throw a scare into the miserable
>>> little invetebrates.
>>
>> Oh, dear. I thought it was pronounced to rhyme with 'truly' or
>> 'aloofly' ... My bad (but what the hell, it was fun).
>
> The bad was all mine. Pronunciation of imaginary words is optional, but I
> would be willing to compromise on ['bU fli]: Man, what a geek. Toadally
> boofly. (If you haven't looked at Evan Kirshenbaum's adaptation of the IPA
> to usenet use, you'll find it on the website; it's required for the
> decipherment of some posts.)

Thanks for the hint. It'll be bookmarked in a minute...

> If you heard someone say "mi malo", would you think it was Spanish for "my
> bad", Spanish with a slight speech impediment for "real bad", or Latin for
> "it is for a bad thing to me"?

The last would be "mihi malo", I think.

Correction: I *used* to think. A convenient book I have just checked in
informs me that the dative of ego is "mihi or mi" (long i).

CDB 1, Gino 0.

Gino

Gene E. Bloch

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May 31, 2006, 2:35:55 PM5/31/06
to
On 5/31/2006, Salvatore Volatile posted this:

> Gene E Bloch wrote:
>> To me, the word 'modern' always sounded like /morden/ in the Boston
>> area.
>
> Not quite. It's "mwahden".

Thanks for bringing me up-to-date :-)

OTOH, although I'm not from NYC, I try hard (just for fun) to refer to
my daily stimulant as cawfee. I have no idea how to notate exactly what
sound I mean, beyond having mentioned NYC :-)

I was also wondering if my thought above in the thread that Bostonians
say "fu(r)" without the r comes from my seven years or so in
Providence, where I think I recall that they drop or weaken the r in
that context.

I'll just have to go back and see (well, hear) - memory can fade. Of
course, accents change, as well.

Salvatore Volatile

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May 31, 2006, 9:34:21 PM5/31/06
to
Gene E Bloch wrote:
> I was also wondering if my thought above in the thread that Bostonians
> say "fu(r)" without the r comes from my seven years or so in
> Providence, where I think I recall that they drop or weaken the r in
> that context.

I think that ray o'hara speaks for some Bwahstonians but not all. Some of
them indeed have non-rhotic "fur", and I suspect that that was what was
traditional.

--
Salvatore Volatile

Gene E. Bloch

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Jun 1, 2006, 12:55:11 AM6/1/06
to
On 5/31/2006, Salvatore Volatile posted this:

Thanks - I'll be able to sleep better tonight. Nah, I really accepted
that I could have been wrong, but it's a bit nicer to be right, or at
least less (Fewer? Oh - wrong thread.) wrong.

Also thanks for the word 'non-rhotic'. I think I've seen it before (or
rhotic), but if so, it was lost in the mists. Now I'll have to find an
occasion to use it in conversation :-)

mb

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Jun 1, 2006, 4:03:53 AM6/1/06
to

Richard R. Hershberger wrote:
> mb wrote:

> > It is, as you already suggested, the guy's first name! Wow. Almost
> > worse than naming your daughter Kimberly or Mackenzie.
>
> Far worse. Yes, Kimberly and Mackenzie were not common girls' names a
> hundred years ago. They are today. (Well, Kimberly is perfectly
> standard. Mackenzie is unsurprising but a bit twee to my ear.)
> Furthermore, for all that they are non-traditional, they fit within the
> standard morphology of girls' names.

Nah. Knowing that the mental retardation of our species is the major
driving force of language change is one count, taking it lying down and
with a smile is another.

The only thing that, personally speaking, could grate worse with
Boisfeuillet is that the wood that once named a family (not the
Joneses) is in France, while the King's Lea was in England and the Mac
Kenzie clan ended up speaking Angliche. As for fitting within the
traditional morphology of girls' names, "Latrina", already reported by
Mencken, sounds a thousand times better.

kev0...@gmail.com

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May 23, 2016, 9:39:13 AM5/23/16
to
On Sunday, May 28, 2006 at 12:49:12 PM UTC-4, Halcombe wrote:
> One Boisfeuillet Jones, Jr. is CEO of the Washington Post.
>
> How in Jesu's name do you pronounce that Chrisian name?
>
> If it were the name of a Frenchman, I'd have no difficulty in saying,
> 'bwa-foy-yay'.
>
> Since he's American, I haven't a clue. 'Boys-fill-it'? 'Boze-fill-it'?
> 'Boze-fill-eh'?
>
> No wonder he's got a nickname ('Bo')!
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boisfeuillet_Jones%2C_Jr.

Here in Atlanta, we often referred to him as Unpronounceable Jones.

Don Phillipson

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May 23, 2016, 2:28:37 PM5/23/16
to
On Sunday, May 28, 2006 at 12:49:12 PM UTC-4, Halcombe wrote:

> One Boisfeuillet Jones, Jr. is CEO of the Washington Post.
>
> How in Jesu's name do you pronounce that Chrisian name?

Our convention is that the pronunciation of anyone's proper name
is that person's prerogative. The historical precedent is all those
British names with non-literal pronunciation (Mingis for Menzies,
Beecham for Beauchamp etc.) So Mr. Jones can say his name
sounds like Boflet and no one may say him nay.
--
Don Phillipson
Carlsbad Springs
(Ottawa, Canada)


ANMC...@alum.wpi.edu

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May 23, 2016, 2:36:52 PM5/23/16
to
Mingus is entirely literal. M-I-N-Yogh-I-E-S, schwa-ed out a little.

ANMcC

snide...@gmail.com

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May 23, 2016, 2:45:25 PM5/23/16
to
On Monday, May 23, 2016 at 11:28:37 AM UTC-7, Don Phillipson wrote:
> On Sunday, May 28, 2006 at 12:49:12 PM UTC-4, Halcombe wrote:
>
> > One Boisfeuillet Jones, Jr. is CEO of the Washington Post.
> >
> > How in Jesu's name do you pronounce that Chrisian name?
>
> Our convention is that the pronunciation of anyone's proper name
> is that person's prerogative. The historical precedent is all those
> British names with non-literal pronunciation (Mingis for Menzies,
> Beecham for Beauchamp etc.) So Mr. Jones can say his name
> sounds like Boflet and no one may say him nay.

You didn't offer that opinion in 2006, though.

CDB cited the alma mater of the subject as giving "BO-fill-ay"

/dps

Peter T. Daniels

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May 23, 2016, 4:15:33 PM5/23/16
to
He doesn't appear in the thread (unless under a different name), so maybe he
was one of the army of lurkers who offer their support in the email. Well,
back then probably e-mail.

Jack Campin

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May 23, 2016, 4:31:46 PM5/23/16
to
> One Boisfeuillet Jones, Jr. is CEO of the Washington Post.
> How in Jesu's name do you pronounce that Christian name?

Woodleaf.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
e m a i l : j a c k @ c a m p i n . m e . u k
Jack Campin, 11 Third Street, Newtongrange, Midlothian EH22 4PU, Scotland
mobile 07800 739 557 <http://www.campin.me.uk> Twitter: JackCampin

Dingbat

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May 24, 2016, 2:17:51 AM5/24/16
to
The German equivalent of french <eu> is close as a free vowel and open as a checked vowel. It seems the same in French: deux has a close vowel whereas neuf has an open one. Is that correct as a phonological rule?

Peter T. Daniels

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May 24, 2016, 9:09:46 AM5/24/16
to
In French the distinction is or used to be phonemic; the two vowels
/œː/ 'fleur' and /øː/ 'meule' could contrast -- but I don't think that's so in German.

Dingbat

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May 24, 2016, 10:09:38 AM5/24/16
to
If 'fleur' is non-rhotic, it could be analyzed as <eur> being a free vowel /œː/, making the distinction no longer phonemic, what?

Jerry Friedman

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May 24, 2016, 2:27:57 PM5/24/16
to
On 5/23/16 2:31 PM, Jack Campin wrote:
>> One Boisfeuillet Jones, Jr. is CEO of the Washington Post.
>> How in Jesu's name do you pronounce that Christian name?
>
> Woodleaf

let

> .

--
Jerry Friedman
"No Trump" bridge-themed political shirts: cafepress.com/jerrysdesigns
Bumper stickers ditto: cafepress/jerrysstickers

snide...@gmail.com

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May 24, 2016, 3:17:42 PM5/24/16
to
On Tuesday, May 24, 2016 at 11:27:57 AM UTC-7, Jerry Friedman wrote:
> On 5/23/16 2:31 PM, Jack Campin wrote:
> >> One Boisfeuillet Jones, Jr. is CEO of the Washington Post.
> >> How in Jesu's name do you pronounce that Christian name?
> >
> > Woodleaf
>
> let

Hasn't the Washington Post long since gone from leaflet to tabloid?
And on beyond that, maybe?

/dps

Peter T. Daniels

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May 24, 2016, 5:56:39 PM5/24/16
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Why would you even imagine such a thing?

> it could be analyzed as <eur> being a free vowel /œː/, making the distinction no longer phonemic, what?

For the _short_ rounded mid front vowels, the 50+-year-old pronunciation key
in the big Harrap dictionary shows the situation as you describe: free vowel
higher, checked vowel lower.

bill van

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May 24, 2016, 8:15:55 PM5/24/16
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In article <5b4d4385-2c3e-4aec...@googlegroups.com>,
My understanding is that the Post proper remains a broadsheet, but it
has several regular inserted sections in tabloid format, and it has
started up tabloid editions in several other cities.

Also, I don't think there is anything beyond tabloid, except perhaps the
fiery pit at the back of the stage in productions of Don Giovanni.
--
bill

Robert Bannister

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May 24, 2016, 8:43:00 PM5/24/16
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Petit Robert's examples are:
ø peu, deux
œ peur, meuble
which also agrees.

--
Robert B. born England a long time ago;
Western Australia since 1972

Peter T. Daniels

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May 24, 2016, 10:59:58 PM5/24/16
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Does it recognize long vs. short in its table? If so, the contrast might still
appear there. How recent is your table? Or better, what does it give as the
pronunciations of fleur vs. meule?

Dingbat

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May 24, 2016, 11:14:08 PM5/24/16
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On Wednesday, May 25, 2016 at 3:26:39 AM UTC+5:30, Peter T. Daniels wrote:
> On Tuesday, May 24, 2016 at 10:09:38 AM UTC-4, Dingbat wrote:
> > On Tuesday, May 24, 2016 at 6:39:46 PM UTC+5:30, Peter T. Daniels wrote:
> > > On Tuesday, May 24, 2016 at 2:17:51 AM UTC-4, Dingbat wrote:
> > > > On Monday, May 23, 2016 at 7:09:13 PM UTC+5:30, kev0...@gmail.com wrote:
> > > > > On Sunday, May 28, 2006 at 12:49:12 PM UTC-4, Halcombe wrote:
> > > > > > One Boisfeuillet Jones, Jr. is CEO of the Washington Post.
>
> > > > > > How in Jesu's name do you pronounce that Chrisian name?
> > > > > > If it were the name of a Frenchman, I'd have no difficulty in saying,
> > > > > > 'bwa-foy-yay'.
> > > > > > Since he's American, I haven't a clue. 'Boys-fill-it'? 'Boze-fill-it'?
> > > > > > 'Boze-fill-eh'?
> > > > > > No wonder he's got a nickname ('Bo')!
> > > > > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boisfeuillet_Jones%2C_Jr.
> > > > > Here in Atlanta, we often referred to him as Unpronounceable Jones.
> > > > The German equivalent of french <eu> is close as a free vowel and open as a checked vowel. It seems the same in French: deux has a close vowel whereas neuf has an open one. Is that correct as a phonological rule?
> > > In French the distinction is or used to be phonemic; the two vowels
> > > /œː/ 'fleur' and /øː/ 'meule' could contrast -- but I don't think that's so in German.
> >
> > If 'fleur' is non-rhotic,
>
> Why would you even imagine such a thing?
>
That's the way I seem to hear it:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rw9S_t--Jv8
http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x2cn2zs_fleur-flower-pronunciation-in-french_school
>
> > it could be analyzed as <eur> being a free vowel /œː/, making the distinction no longer phonemic, what?
>
> For the _short_ rounded mid front vowels, the 50+-year-old pronunciation key
> in the big Harrap dictionary shows the situation as you describe: free vowel
> higher, checked vowel lower.
.
Ah! Thanks.

Peter Moylan

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May 25, 2016, 1:46:05 AM5/25/16
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The French 'r' is a lot softer than an English 'r', but it doesn't
disappear entirely. To the best of my knowledge, there's no such thing
as a non-rhotic French dialect.

--
Peter Moylan http://www.pmoylan.org
Newcastle, NSW, Australia

Snidely

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May 25, 2016, 2:10:10 AM5/25/16
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