Is it called "scat singing" because the lyrics are crap?
Ross Howard
Comments?
Ross Howard
N.Mitchum
-----
> ...in English usage?
>.....
Cute, but ... what lyrics? Like "badda weeyoo tat"?
----NM
Ross Howard
Ross Howard
wrote:
Beee-baddully BAP!
Bi-dooby?
Ross Howard
Leo Scanlon
wrote:
>...in English usage?
>
>Comments?
For anyone who doesn't know, Ross is referring to the wordless
vocalizing used mainly by jazz singers. The style was invented by
Louis Armstrong in the 1920s. Ella Fitzgerald is recognized as the
all-time best scat singer. Does anyone know why it's called "scat"?
Leo
Michael West
Leo Scanlon <lsca...@erols.com> wrote in message
news:3816e650...@news.erols.com...
Jelly Roll Morton claimed to have invented wordless jazz (scat) singing as
far back as 1906 -- although he was well known for his ambitious claims.
Louis Armstrong's vocal on 'Heebie Jeebies' (1926) is usually cited as the
earliest recorded example.
I believe the word 'scat' suggested the sort of nonsense syllables used by
its practitioners, and probably stuck for that reason.
--
Michael West
Melbourne, Australia
« Luxe, calme et volupté »
paul draper
Leo Scanlon <lsca...@erols.com> wrote in message
news:3816e650...@news.erols.com...
> On Tue, 26 Oct 1999 09:31:07 GMT, ro...@granada.net (Ross Howard)
> wrote:
>
> >...in English usage?
> >
> >Comments?
>
> For anyone who doesn't know, Ross is referring to the wordless
> vocalizing used mainly by jazz singers. The style was invented by
> Louis Armstrong in the 1920s.
Hmm, dunno about that. Mouth-music has been about for quite a while longer
than the 1920's. In Scotland and Ireland it's known as 'diddling' and in
Scotland it was used to teach bagpipe students melodies before they were
allowed to even touch the instrument. This was formalised and called
Canntaireachd and there were, apparently, several systems. Louis Armstrong
may have been the first to apply it to jazz but I wouldn't be surprised if
some one else hadn't already been doing it.
Paul Draper
SLHinton17
>.....Mouth-music has been about for quite a while longer
>than the 1920's. In Scotland and Ireland it's known as 'diddling' and in
>Scotland it was used to teach bagpipe students melodies before they were
>allowed to even touch the instrument. This was formalised and called
>Canntaireachd........
********************
I'm not certain of this, but my impression was that _canntaireachd_was not
exactly the same as "mouth music" (_puirt a beul_). The former consisted of
words and syllables that were not nonsense, but the formal names of the "cuts"
(mandatory formations of grace-notes), used for musical decoration and for
separation of contiguous notes on the same pitch. (Highland bagpipes sound
continuously, and can't play staccato.) Some of the syllables of
_canntaireachd_ have passed over into Hebridean (and probably other) mouth
music, where they mean nothing more than "tra la la."
The word "scat" is almost certainly echoic, representing some of the sounds
made by jazz musicians when singing an instrumental passage; it was certainly
done long before Louis Armstrong's day, and I don't know that he ever claimed
its invention. In my youth, the most famous scat singer was Cab Calloway.
Sam Hinton
La Jolla, CA
Sam Melton
>
>
>
> Hmm, dunno about that. Mouth-music has been about for quite a while
longer
> than the 1920's. In Scotland and Ireland it's known as 'diddling' and
in
How does "diddling" compare to "lilting"? I love to listen to Irish
lilters, but they seem to intersperse text with their nonsense
syllables a good deal.
> Scotland it was used to teach bagpipe students melodies before they
were
> allowed to even touch the instrument. This was formalised and called
> Canntaireachd and there were, apparently, several systems. Louis
Armstrong
> may have been the first to apply it to jazz but I wouldn't be
surprised if
> some one else hadn't already been doing it.
>
V/R
Sam Melton
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
paul draper
news:19991027095227...@ng-fs1.aol.com...> >.....Mouth-music has been about for quite a while longer
> >than the 1920's. In Scotland and Ireland it's known as 'diddling' and in
> >allowed to even touch the instrument. This was formalised and called
> ********************
> I'm not certain of this, but my impression was that _canntaireachd_was not
> exactly the same as "mouth music" (_puirt a beul_). The former consisted
of
> words and syllables that were not nonsense, but the formal names of the
"cuts"
> (mandatory formations of grace-notes), used for musical decoration and for
> separation of contiguous notes on the same pitch. (Highland bagpipes sound
> continuously, and can't play staccato.) Some of the syllables of
> _canntaireachd_ have passed over into Hebridean (and probably other)
mouth
> music, where they mean nothing more than "tra la la."
Yes, perhaps. I'm not a Gaelic or bagpipe scholar but I always assumed the
'words' in canntaireachd were chosen to imitate the sounds that they
described. 'Puirt a beul' (thank you, I couldn't remember the spelling)
would have been a lot less formalised but I think the same syllables would
tend to turn up in the same places simply because they were the most
appropriate. to the melody being described. I think that canntaireachd and
mouth-music are cut from the same cloth. Canntaireachd, though, has been
applied to facilitate the teaching of one instrument whereas mouth-music is
used to replace (or cover for the absence of) instruments in general for an
immediate purpose - dancing.
All of which leads to my pipe band joke:
Q:How many drums are there in a pipe band?
A: 5
A bass drum.
A tenor drum.
A side drum
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
..
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
A hedrum and a hodrum.
Aythengyow.
Paul Draper
Bun Mui
Comments?
Bun Mui
paul draper
news:7v76u0$3ci$1...@nnrp1.deja.com...
> Paul Draper wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> > Hmm, dunno about that. Mouth-music has been about for quite a while
> longer
> > than the 1920's. In Scotland and Ireland it's known as 'diddling' and
> in
>
> lilters, but they seem to intersperse text with their nonsense
> syllables a good deal.
>
Yes that's it. If there's real words you use them eg 'If I had a wife, the
bane of me life etc.' for the tune Dingle Regatta which _degenerates_ into
'Di, di, diddle de di etc'. As I said the voice is being used as a
substitute for an instrument, which is why it's not just called singing, so
you can use nonsense words. Of course those nonsense words might mean
something in another language, in this case Gaelic or Welsh or possibly
Romany.
--
Paul Draper
0171 369 2754
Truly Donovan
wrote:
>
>Leo Scanlon <lsca...@erols.com> wrote in message
>news:3816e650...@news.erols.com...
>> On Tue, 26 Oct 1999 09:31:07 GMT, ro...@granada.net (Ross Howard)
>> wrote:
>>
>> >...in English usage?
>> >
>> >Comments?
>>
>> For anyone who doesn't know, Ross is referring to the wordless
>> vocalizing used mainly by jazz singers. The style was invented by
>> Louis Armstrong in the 1920s. Ella Fitzgerald is recognized as the
>> all-time best scat singer. Does anyone know why it's called "scat"?
>
>
>Jelly Roll Morton claimed to have invented wordless jazz (scat) singing as
>far back as 1906 -- although he was well known for his ambitious claims.
>Louis Armstrong's vocal on 'Heebie Jeebies' (1926) is usually cited as the
>earliest recorded example.
>
>I believe the word 'scat' suggested the sort of nonsense syllables used by
>its practitioners, and probably stuck for that reason.
The late and lamented Mel Torme proved that white guys can do it, too.
--
Truly Donovan
tr...@lunemere.com
*Chandler's Daughter* [Write Way Publishing, Jan 2000]
N.Mitchum
------
> >Cute, but ... what lyrics? Like "badda weeyoo tat"?
>
> Beee-baddully BAP!
>
> Bi-dooby?
Reet!
----NM
Michael West
SLHinton17 <slhin...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:19991027095227...@ng-fs1.aol.com...
> On Wed, 27 October 1999, "paul draper" pdr...@baig.co.uk. wrote:
>
> >than the 1920's. In Scotland and Ireland it's known as 'diddling' and in
> >allowed to even touch the instrument. This was formalised and called
> >Canntaireachd........
> ********************
> I'm not certain of this, but my impression was that _canntaireachd_was not
> exactly the same as "mouth music" (_puirt a beul_). The former consisted
of
> words and syllables that were not nonsense, but the formal names of the
"cuts"
> (mandatory formations of grace-notes), used for musical decoration and for
> separation of contiguous notes on the same pitch. (Highland bagpipes sound
> continuously, and can't play staccato.) Some of the syllables of
> _canntaireachd_ have passed over into Hebridean (and probably other)
mouth
> music, where they mean nothing more than "tra la la."
>
sounds
> made by jazz musicians when singing an instrumental passage; it was
certainly
> done long before Louis Armstrong's day, and I don't know that he ever
claimed
> its invention. In my youth, the most famous scat singer was Cab Calloway.
> Sam Hinton
> La Jolla, CA
>
If you can cite a recorded example, by Cab Calloway or anyone else,
pre-dating Louis Armstrong's performances in 1926, then you can rewrite jazz
history. (Standing by for your answer ....)
I do think that both Armstrong and Calloway (and others) were embellishing a
practice that nobody rally "invented". But when you are talking about the
history of jazz, you can't really go back "long before Louis Armstrong's
day" -- at most, one generation. Calloway was a few years younger than
Armstrong. (I've always thought of Calloway more as a vaudevillian than a
jazz musician-- although he always surrounded himself with the best jazz
players around.)
To my ear, Louis Armstrong did it (scatting) better than anyone, including
Ella Fitzgerald's hyped-up indulgences, which came much later. When he did
it, it was music, not an antic; it seemed a natural extension of a song, an
embellishment "around the edges" of the melody -- soft, sweet and pretty.
Listen to the way he used it on pretty ballads like Hoagy Carmichael's
'Georgia on My Mind' and 'Stardust.' Dreamy ....
Michael West
paul draper <pdr...@baig.co.uk> wrote in message
news:7v6pgc$9h0$1...@nclient7-gui.server.ntli.net...
>
>
> Leo Scanlon <lsca...@erols.com> wrote in message
> news:3816e650...@news.erols.com...
> > On Tue, 26 Oct 1999 09:31:07 GMT, ro...@granada.net (Ross Howard)
> > wrote:
> >
> > >...in English usage?
> > >
> > >Comments?
> >
> > For anyone who doesn't know, Ross is referring to the wordless
> > vocalizing used mainly by jazz singers. The style was invented by
> > Louis Armstrong in the 1920s.
>
> than the 1920's. In Scotland and Ireland it's known as 'diddling' and in
Sure, and 'fa-la-la-la-la's go way back too. But 'scat' singing is jazz
singing. Jazz draws on many sources, including Celtic traditions -- but it
is still a unique mix and a separate genre.
SLHinton17
On Wed, 27 October 1999, "Michael West" n...@home.com, wrote:
>If you can cite a recorded example, by Cab Calloway or anyone else,
>pre-dating Louis Armstrong's performances in 1926, then you can rewrite
>jazz
>history. (Standing by for your answer ....)
.......> But when you are talking about the
>history of jazz, you can't really go back "long before Louis Armstrong's
>day" -- at most, one generation.....
**********************
I thought we were talking not about the history of jazz, but the history of
scat singing, and my statement (with which you have agreed) was that it was
not invented by Louis Armstrong (whom I admire unreservedly!), and that as far
as I know, he never claimed that he did. There can be no doubt, however, that
in the light of our present knowledge, he was the first to record scat as such.
If scat singing is defined as using the voice as an instrument, with
otherwise-meaningless syllables, your limitation of one generation beyond Louis
Armstrong does not apply; if you define it as a particular technique in jazz,
then it can't be any older than jazz is, and your limitation makes some sense.
SLHinton17
>...... If there's real words you use them eg 'If I had a wife, the
>bane of me life etc.' for the tune Dingle Regatta which _degenerates_ into
>'Di, di, diddle de di etc. As I said the voice is being used as a
>substitute for an instrument, which is why it's not just called singing,
>so
>you can use nonsense words. Of course those nonsense words might mean
>something in another language, in this case Gaelic or Welsh or possibly
>Romany.
***********************
Years ago, when he was visiting here in California, Seamus Ennis told a story
about the "meaning" of a lilting phrase, mocking etymological accounts: He
said a man in Ireland was coming down with a cold, and his daughter recommended
that he take a hot glass of rum just before bedtime. The next morning she
asked him solicitously: "Did the rum do, Daddy?" and ever since, people have
been singing that question.
Einde O'Callaghan
>
> ...in English usage?
>
> Comments?
>
> Ross Howard
You are Bun Mui and I claim my 50 pounds.
eo'c
jonathan miller
> Jelly Roll Morton claimed to have invented wordless jazz (scat) singing as
> far back as 1906 -- although he was well known for his ambitious claims.
That's odd, it doesn't show up in any of his piano rolls from the 20s.
Jon "I wonder why" Miller
Larry Phillips
wrote:
> Does anyone know why it's called "scat"?
Because it's crap.
Bill Schnakenberg
>
> Larry Phillips <lar...@home.com> wrote in message
> news:38193b19...@news.rdc1.bc.wave.home.com...
Scat is not crap; Rap is C-rap.
--
Bill -
PSP Terrorist - D'Lanok de Caresk chapter - Anti-Troll Unit 235
--------------------------------------------------------------
The USS Salem, CA-139. The World's only preserved Heavy Cruiser,
Quincy, MASS. http://www.frontiernet.net/~willshak/salem/salem.html
--------------------------------------------------------------
Remove OutSpammedDot from my e-mail address when replying directly.
Any e-mail sent from @Hotmail.com is deleted without being read.