"Ph.D. candidate" on business card?
Dong
My title would be "graduate research assist". But since I am graduating
soon and am looking for jobs at the Ph.D. level, is it a good idea to
put "Ph.D. candidate" on the card?
If it is proper, does this looks right?
John Doe, Ph.D. Candidate
Graduate Research Assistant
Thanks.
Dong
Murray Arnow
It is an extremely bad idea to create such a business card. First,
"PhD Candidate" is not a typically recognized appellation. Second, ask
yourself what useful purpose is served by identifying yourself as
"Graduate Research Assistant"? Who would be interested in knowing that
your business is "Graduate Research Assistant"?
Michael J Hardy
> I wonder if it is proper to put "Ph.D. candidate" on my business card.
> My title would be "graduate research assist". But since I am graduating
> soon and am looking for jobs at the Ph.D. level, is it a good idea to
> put "Ph.D. candidate" on the card?
> If it is proper, does this looks right?
I've seen it done. I suppose that whether it is a good idea
may depend on what purpose you use these cards for. If you're giving
them to prospective employers it may be just what you need.
Mike Hardy
Richard Badger
Put it in your C.V. or resume.
Richard Fontana
It's dead wrong and totally improper.
First of all, "Ph.D. Candidate" is inherently misleading, since
American universities use "candidacy" in the context of PhD programs to
mean something more restrictive than just being a student in a PhD
program (though it sounds like you really are a "candidate" in this
restricted sense), yet in ordinary speech "[degree] candidate" can
legitimately mean "someone who expects to obtain a degree by finishing
the academic program he's currently enrolled in". So in a sense by
using "PhD Candidate" you're potentially misleading people into
thinking you're not as far along as you probably are.
Second of all, it's difficult to see what you gain by having this
information on a business card. Let's take the "Graduate Research
Assistant". This is nothing to be especially proud of; you're probably
a research assistant in return for some sort of financial support in
your academic program (that is, it's slightly different from (= TC
'than') a job in the conventional sense). In a certain sense, again,
you're sort of diminishing yourself by pointing out, in a business
card, that you're a "Graduate Research Assistant". All that really
says is "Yes, I'm going to repeat myself: I'm a Ph.D. student!".
Third, this sort of information is a bit too silly to put on a business
card. By all means, make up business cards containing your name and
contact information, *and* you can, I'd say, legitimately put your
university and department under your name, so long as you don't imply
that you actually *work* for the university (even though you're on the
payroll as a graduate research assistant).
Let me explain why this is so dead wrong (to the extent that you
haven't been convinced by my previous points). If you're applying for
jobs "on the Ph.D. level", then anyone you interview with for said job
is going to KNOW you're still a Ph.D. candidate if you haven't yet
gotten the degree, and they're going to have your CV (or, in less
legitimate cases I don't even want to think about, a resume) which will
or should make clear that you're finishing up the requirements for the
Ph.D. program. So what do you need this information on a business card
for? You don't. And it's *possible* (though, sadly, unlikely) that
someone you'll interview with will be annoyed with the fact that you're
violating tradition and convention and what some people here
misleadingly call "logic" by having such information on your business
card.
So, in sum, don't do it! Crack is wack!
M.J.Powell
<ldx...@yahoo.com> writes
Are you sure that you're going to graduate?
Why not wait until you're sure then produce the proper card?
Mike
--
M.J.Powell
Armond Perretta
"Dong" <ldx...@yahoo.com> wrote ...
>
> I wonder if it is proper to put "Ph.D. candidate" on my business card ...
> since I am graduating soon and am looking for jobs at the Ph.D. level,
> is it a good idea to put "Ph.D. candidate" on the card?
Sounds like a great idea. Put it right under "Eligible Bachelor" and next
to "Scintillating Conversationalist."
s/ATP, Ex-Ph.D. Candidate
--
Good luck and good sailing.
s/v Kerry Deare of Barnegat
http://kerrydeare.tripod.com
Michael J Hardy
> It's dead wrong and totally improper.
Richard, I don't think your objections are sufficient.
Suppose he's in a field in which people quoted in the media
as competent authorities are often practitioners with only
a master's degree, and he's going to give his card to a
journalist who may or may not want to ask him about the area
of his expertise later. Or perhaps to a customer who knows
little about his field. That's different from talking to a
potential academic employer to whom he'd give his CV. Is it
improper to inform them of his status on his business card?
Mike Hardy
Dong
>
> It's dead wrong and totally improper.
>
OK, I am convinced. I am going to get my degree real soon and
a friends suggest putting "Ph.D." on the card, which I consider
premature and improper, thus comes the weird "Ph.D. candidate".
> Second of all, it's difficult to see what you gain by having this
> information on a business card. Let's take the "Graduate Research
> Assistant". This is nothing to be especially proud of; you're probably
> a research assistant in return for some sort of financial support in
> your academic program (that is, it's slightly different from (= TC
> 'than') a job in the conventional sense). In a certain sense, again,
> you're sort of diminishing yourself by pointing out, in a business
> card, that you're a "Graduate Research Assistant". All that really
> says is "Yes, I'm going to repeat myself: I'm a Ph.D. student!".
>
> So, in sum, don't do it! Crack is wack!
>
So, are you for the plain name only with no title or job position?
I think I need to let the reader know that I am not a university
staff, but a last year graduate student in a Ph.D. program.
Dong
Harvey V
<rf...@sparky.cs.nyu.edu> wrote:
> On Wed, 17 Apr 2002, Dong wrote:
>
>> I wonder if it is proper to put "Ph.D. candidate" on my business
>> card.
-snip-
> It's dead wrong and totally improper.
-snip-
Wot 'e said.
--
Cheers,
Harvey
(Pondian translation: couldn't put it better myself; very elegantly
put.)
Arcadian Rises
>Suppose he's in a field in which people quoted in the media
>as competent authorities are often practitioners with only
>a master's degree, and he's going to give his card to a
>journalist who may or may not want to ask him about the area
>of his expertise later. Or perhaps to a customer who knows
>little about his field. That's different from talking to a
>potential academic employer to whom he'd give his CV. Is it
>improper to inform them of his status on his business card?
>
[sorry to barge in without reading the whole thread]
It is not improper to give the status _quo_ on your business card. That's the
main purpose of a business card, to inform your new acquintances about your
profession or trade.
But to inform them about your _ambitions_, IMO is in poor taste.
As for the example given, to inform a journalist about your area of expertise
by writing "PhD candidate" on your business card, I find it
- at best irrelevant, since there is no guarantee that you'd ever get your PhD,
or your application for a PhD was not frivolous
- at worst, misleading, since "candidate" is small print.
Dong
>
> As for the example given, to inform a journalist about your area of expertise
> by writing "PhD candidate" on your business card, I find it
> - at best irrelevant, since there is no guarantee that you'd ever get your PhD, > or your application for a PhD was not frivolous
>
preliminary exam.
Dong
Arcadian Rises
>Ph.D. candidate usually has passed all the qualification and
>preliminary exam.
>
Technically, you're right.
But "candidate" means also aspirant and there are some aspirants who are not as
candid as others.
Murray Arnow
Not always. The act of entering a graduate program means that you are
a candidate for a graduate degree. There is nothing distinguishing
about being a candidate. Lar "America First" Daly was a perennial
candidate for nearly all elected offices.
Cognitus
"Dong" <ldx...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:W5iv8.41833$tg4.4...@vixen.cso.uiuc.edu...
I would say no; if you're applying for a job, they are inspecting
your credentials and they will know your status.
Michael J Hardy
> It is not improper to give the status _quo_ on your business card.
> That's the main purpose of a business card, to inform your new
> acquintances about your profession or trade.
>
> But to inform them about your _ambitions_, IMO is in poor taste.
>
> As for the example given, to inform a journalist about your area of
> expertise by writing "PhD candidate" on your business card, I find it
> - at best irrelevant, since there is no guarantee that you'd ever get
> your PhD, or your application for a PhD was not frivolous
I think you misunderstand. "PhD candidate" is not an ambition;
it's an official status in a graduate program. The title can be used
honestly only if he's been admitted to the PhD program and to candidacy
for that degree. -- Mike Hardy
GrapeApe
>>My title would be "graduate research assist". But since I am graduating
>>soon and am looking for jobs at the Ph.D. level, is it a good idea to
>>put "Ph.D. candidate" on the card?
>>If it is proper, does this looks right?
>>
>> John Doe, Ph.D. Candidate
>> Graduate Research Assistant
bad idea.
If you have a good educational background, your resume should speak for itself.
You may get a high paying job and decide against ever finishing your doctorate.
That being said, if you are a paid research assistant on the graduate level,
sometimes those schools have an actual business card (and proper job
description thereupon) you can use.
GrapeApe
>So, are you for the plain name only with no title or job position?
>I think I need to let the reader know that I am not a university
>staff, but a last year graduate student in a Ph.D. program.
I think the best you can hope for is a card noting the department for which you
worked for, if you were being paid. They will often give these to paid
students working towards a graduate degree, especially if they have to answer
phones Otherwise, treat the business card as for contact info only. Name.
Address. Phone. Fax.
If you're going into the academic world, your C.V. will suffice to introduce
the working world to your abilities.
Garry J. Vass
news:a9kj7n$gbo$1...@slb2.atl.mindspring.net...
>
> "Dong" <ldx...@yahoo.com> wrote ...
> >
> > I wonder if it is proper to put "Ph.D. candidate" on my business card
...
> > since I am graduating soon and am looking for jobs at the Ph.D. level,
> > is it a good idea to put "Ph.D. candidate" on the card?
>
> Sounds like a great idea. Put it right under "Eligible Bachelor" and next
> to "Scintillating Conversationalist."
>
HAR! Great snappy comeback!
I'm amazed so many aue civilians have opinions about this absolutely *weird*
idea.
I never had anything about PhD anywhere. In fact, still don't. It's pants.
What matters in the real-world is the "mean-green", otherwise what's the
point in getting out of bed? IMHO.
IMHO, of course, I realise that there's a fair number of folks out there who
work for the so-called "glow from within", and more power to them, I
certainly don't mean to offend.
But I like the "Eligible Bachelor" bit! That along with a paltalk handle,
and who knows where things might go?
Kind regards,
GJV
ASL=40+MUK
Murray Arnow
>
> I think you misunderstand. "PhD candidate" is not an ambition;
>it's an official status in a graduate program. The title can be used
>honestly only if he's been admitted to the PhD program and to candidacy
>for that degree. -- Mike Hardy
>
But not on a business card. I don't know why this chap requires a
business card. I don't know why his fellow students require business
cards. I haven't seen any justification, or maybe this is fad like
body piercing.
Richard Fontana
Yes.
Richard Fontana
If you were university staff you'd have an *official* business card (if
you were entitled to get such business cards) from the university. It
should be obvious from the appearance of your card that it's not an
official university card.
I can't emphasize more strongly that it would be ridiculous to put
"Graduate Research Assistant" on the card. Do you think that Alice on
_The Brady Bunch_ had "slave" on her business card?
Students can have business cards, but they should only give contact
information. It's not a bad idea to have something like a nice cartoon
character on the card, like the Tasmanian Devil for example.
Harvey V
-snip-
> OK, I am convinced. I am going to get my degree real soon and
> a friends suggest putting "Ph.D." on the card, which I consider
> premature and improper, thus comes the weird "Ph.D. candidate".
Your desire to be precise and honest about your current status is
admirable. The problem, I think, lies with the different implications
of "candidate" in academic and non-academic circles.
I think it's clear from the thread that you're entirely correctly using
"candidate" in the technical sense of a recognised academic status, and
within academic circles this may well be entirely clear. Outside those
circles, though, "candidate" means little more than just that you're
being considered for, or have ambitions to, a position, and looks a bit
foolish.
There seems to me to be a couple of solutions:
1. Print them with "Ph.D.", but don't use them until the degree comes
through. (I agree that using them before the degree is granted is
fraudulent.)
2. Print them with your earlier degrees, and leave the explanation of
your candidate status for the C.V.
3. Print two versions, one with "Ph.D. candidate" for academic
situations, and one either with your earlier degrees or with "Ph.D.
(pending)" for non-academic situations.
4. For the interim period, when you need to leave a card scribble your
name down on a napkin and mumble something about "the printer screwed
up my cards". (Just kidding. But it works.....)
--
Cheers,
Harvey
Evan Kirshenbaum
As someone who works in industrial research and therefore often has
meetings with delegations from universities, I can attest that
business cards are useful, both to remind me the names of the people I
met with and as a place to jot down what I promised to send them.[1]
They are similarly useful at conferences when you meet someone and
want them to get in touch with you (or want to get in touch with them)
when you both get back home.
As to what to put on the card, I'd just put your name, department, and
university. (Plus contact info, of course.) If it doesn't say
"professor" (or imply some non-academic position), I'll assume that
you're a student, and I'll probably assume you're working toward your
Ph.D., although I really won't care one way or another.
[1] As an aside, this is a good reason to *not* have a translation of
your business card into Japanese on the back. The blank space is
nearly as important as the information on the front. (By all
means have some with translations if you need them, but you'll be
more likely to get what people promise to send you if the back is
blank.)
--
Evan Kirshenbaum +------------------------------------
HP Laboratories |Feeling good about government is like
1501 Page Mill Road, 1U, MS 1141 |looking on the bright side of any
Palo Alto, CA 94304 |catastrophe. When you quit looking
|on the bright side, the catastrophe
kirsh...@hpl.hp.com |is still there.
(650)857-7572 | P.J. O'Rourke
CyberCypher
news:ihlv8.41927$tg4.4...@vixen.cso.uiuc.edu:
Then you can give yourself the letters "AbD" {All but the dissertation}
after your name.
--
Franke
Michael J Hardy
OK, let's try again: I agree that he should not give such
a business card to those to whom he's applying for professional
positions: they have his CV, and his CV is the proper way of informing
them of his qualifications. That was your main argument, or so I
thought. But you recall that I said I'd seen it done. I've seen
it done only once. The circumstances were that the head of a local
chapter of the American Statistical Association was a PhD candidate.
Some of the professionals in the field had only masters degrees and
some had PhDs. Her position in the association meant she might be
inviting speakers and arranging meetings. I don't think she was
giving her card to prospective employers. She may have given it to
people she talked to abouting speaking at meetings. Mentioning her
status may have obviated misunderstanding and prevented people from
looking for her name on a list of faculty members at the university
she was affiliated with. Your objection that she should not give
it to prospective employers does not apply to that situation.
Mike Hardy
Michael J Hardy
> I can't emphasize more strongly that it would be ridiculous to put
> "Graduate Research Assistant" on the card. Do you think that Alice
> on _The Brady Bunch_ had "slave" on her business card?
Graduate assistants may be *paid* like slaves, but one may
hope such a person would be learning something that would be useful
professionally and would bring some professional ethics to the job.
> Students can have business cards, but they should only give contact
> information.
So they shouldn't say at what institution the student studies?
Why not? Suppose the person is just a student and has no assistantship.
Surely you don't fear that a card that says "John Smith, Student,
University of Somewhere" would cause people to mistakenly attribute
the student's opinions to the university? -- Mike Hardy
Pat Durkin
"Murray Arnow" <ar...@iname.com> wrote in message
news:a9kvlf$70h$1...@bob.news.rcn.net...
Handing out calling or business cards is very much a part of some cultures.
I just wonder that something that will be very shortlived would require
acknowledgement. (He said he expects to receive his degree very soon. Of
course, he wants to have cards ready to hand out during his job search, and
doesn't want to claim the Ph.D. before earning it.)
I would say he should claim the Ph.D. candidacy, but not mention the
Graduate Assistant position. Most people are not going to cavil at the
specific meaning of candidacy, and if he gets his interview he can explain
just how far he is from getting the degree. And, he should immediately
have his next card printed up Ph.D. in............ or else be prepared to
cross out the candidacy.
CyberCypher
news:ubs7mvr...@corp.supernews.com:
>
> "Murray Arnow" <ar...@iname.com> wrote in message
> news:a9kvlf$70h$1...@bob.news.rcn.net...
>> mjh...@mit.edu (Michael J Hardy) wrote:
>> >
>> > I think you misunderstand. "PhD candidate" is not an
>> > ambition;
>> >it's an official status in a graduate program. The title can be
>> >used honestly only if he's been admitted to the PhD program and
>> >to candidacy for that degree. -- Mike Hardy
>> >
>>
>> But not on a business card. I don't know why this chap requires a
>> business card. I don't know why his fellow students require
>> business cards. I haven't seen any justification, or maybe this
>> is fad like body piercing.
>
> Handing out calling or business cards is very much a part of some
> cultures.
Yes, it is, especially here in the Far East.
> I just wonder that something that will be very
> shortlived would require acknowledgement. (He said he expects to
> receive his degree very soon. Of course, he wants to have cards
> ready to hand out during his job search, and doesn't want to claim
> the Ph.D. before earning it.)
>
> I would say he should claim the Ph.D. candidacy,
And it might be nice to add "Expected: [month] 2002" after that info.
--
Franke
Pat Durkin
"CyberCypher" <fra...@seed.net.tw> wrote in message
news:Xns91F45FCD6...@130.133.1.4...
Great. You have some experience with how it is "done". My niece's husband
did graphic designs for calling cards (as a day job. He was in a rock band
at nights), in Nagoya. Somewhat like flower arranging, the well-designed
card is a very important statement of grace and sensitivity.
Murray Arnow
>
>"Murray Arnow" <ar...@iname.com> wrote in message
>news:a9kvlf$70h$1...@bob.news.rcn.net...
>> mjh...@mit.edu (Michael J Hardy) wrote:
>> >
>> > I think you misunderstand. "PhD candidate" is not an ambition;
>> >it's an official status in a graduate program. The title can be used
>> >honestly only if he's been admitted to the PhD program and to candidacy
>> >for that degree. -- Mike Hardy
>> >
>>
>> But not on a business card. I don't know why this chap requires a
>> business card. I don't know why his fellow students require business
>> cards. I haven't seen any justification, or maybe this is fad like
>> body piercing.
>
>Handing out calling or business cards is very much a part of some cultures.
>I just wonder that something that will be very shortlived would require
>acknowledgement. (He said he expects to receive his degree very soon. Of
>course, he wants to have cards ready to hand out during his job search, and
>doesn't want to claim the Ph.D. before earning it.)
>
A calling card is not a business card. I am getting the impression
that this premature business card is intended to be a mini-resume. A
business card is intended as a source of contact information. The
reason for contact is usually business related and filed accordingly.
I don't think there is much interest in filing "PhD Candidates" for
future business needs.
Evan mentioned that the cards are useful to keep track of people met
in large groups. I agree that the cards are helpful in this way, but
no one expects prospective degree candidates to have such cards
printed for this single function, particularly interviews where
resumes fulfill that need.
>I would say he should claim the Ph.D. candidacy, but not mention the
>Graduate Assistant position. Most people are not going to cavil at the
>specific meaning of candidacy, and if he gets his interview he can explain
>just how far he is from getting the degree. And, he should immediately
>have his next card printed up Ph.D. in............ or else be prepared to
>cross out the candidacy.
>
Most people won't cavil, but those in the know will wonder "what kind
of character am I dealing with"? At this point in a career, it is more
important to avoid wearing brown suites to interviews than to worry
about what to put on personal business cards.
Tony Cooper
I have no idea about the protocol involved. To play Devil's
Advocate, though, if Dong is from a foreign school perhaps
the custom is to use cards with titles in that society.
Is there a chance that the protocol is different there than
here? If Dong is intending to give the cards to Americans
or Brits, he may be off base because of our customs.
From my experience, the Japanese have a much different
attitude about business cards than we do. A Japanese
businessman is almost naked without his cards. JAL used to
(and maybe still do) print business cards on the flights
from the US to Japan so Americans would not be cardless.
One side was in English, and the other was in Japanese. For
all they knew, many American business travelers could have
been passing out cards that said "Really short guy with
cheap toupee that drank too much on the airplane and played
grab-ass with stewardess."
--
Tony Cooper aka: tony_co...@yahoo.com
Provider of Jots and Tittles
Tony Cooper
>
> Most people won't cavil, but those in the know will wonder "what kind
> of character am I dealing with"? At this point in a career, it is more
> important to avoid wearing brown suites to interviews than to worry
> about what to put on personal business cards.
This "brown shoes" (which is what I assume you meant)
reference has come up before. I think I may have owned a
pair or two of casual brown shoes, but my dress shoes have
always been black or cordovan. I have often worn cordovan
shoes with business dress.
My favorite casual business outfit was a camel's hair
jacket, blue oxford shirt, black slacks (trousers to some),
and cordovan shoes. I have a pair of cordovan cap-toed
Johnson & Murphy shoes that I will wear with grey or navy
suits. Highly polished cordovan is as dressy as black, and
very accepted in sartorial circles.
Black shoes - in and by themselves - is no indication of
stylishness. You might as well wear those blue and white
beach flip-flops as black shoes with molded foam rubber
soles or even those terrible glued on vinyl (or whatever
they are) soles. Proper dress shoes are made of smooth
leather uppers and sewn leather soles.
Hush Puppies and napped surfaced uppers outside of the home
are the mark of a research scientist. They are usually
accompanied by several pens and pencils in the top jacket
pocket and a Wembley tie that has a tag on the back that
says "Wear with navy or black". Sometimes a knitted Rooster
tie with a square end and a greasy knot.
If there is one firm and fast rule about business style
below-the-knee it is that skin should never show no matter
how high the trouser legs hike up. I have seen men on
interview shows with one leg crossed over the other causing
an unsightly display of shin skin. I avert my eyes. I
would never vote for a politician so crass, I'd sell my
stock in a company run by such a lout, and pay little
attention to a business or political analyst that gave so
little thought to important things.
R H Draney
<kirsh...@hpl.hp.com> wrote:
>[1] As an aside, this is a good reason to *not* have a translation of
> your business card into Japanese on the back. The blank space is
> nearly as important as the information on the front. (By all
> means have some with translations if you need them, but you'll be
> more likely to get what people promise to send you if the back is
> blank.)
Bear in mind that, if you're doing business in Japan, the side with
the Japanese version is not considered the "back"...(and there's that
two-handed ritual involved in presenting and receiving meishi, but
that's a *whole* nother area)....r
Theodore Heise
My previous employer private labeled products for a Japanese firm. We
were told it is bad form to write on a Japanese person's business card.
--
Ted Heise <the...@netins.net> West Lafayette, IN, USA
Richard Fontana
> Richard Fontana (rf...@sparky.cs.nyu.edu) wrote:
>
> > I can't emphasize more strongly that it would be ridiculous to put
> > "Graduate Research Assistant" on the card. Do you think that Alice
> > on _The Brady Bunch_ had "slave" on her business card?
>
>
> Graduate assistants may be *paid* like slaves, but one may
> hope such a person would be learning something that would be useful
> professionally and would bring some professional ethics to the job.
>
>
> > Students can have business cards, but they should only give contact
> > information.
>
>
> So they shouldn't say at what institution the student studies?
No, they should. I recommended that. I don't like the "Ph.D.
candidate" or "Graduate Research Assistant". That we can't accept.
Standards, Mike. Standards.
Richard Fontana
> Richard Fontana (rf...@sparky.cs.nyu.edu) wrote:
>
> > On 17 Apr 2002, Michael J Hardy wrote:
> >
> > > Richard Fontana (rf...@sparky.cs.nyu.edu) wrote:
> > >
> > > > It's dead wrong and totally improper.
> > >
> > > Richard, I don't think your objections are sufficient.
> > > Suppose he's in a field in which people quoted in the media
> > > as competent authorities are often practitioners with only
> > > a master's degree, and he's going to give his card to a
> > > journalist who may or may not want to ask him about the area
> > > of his expertise later. Or perhaps to a customer who knows
> > > little about his field. That's different from talking to a
> > > potential academic employer to whom he'd give his CV. Is it
> > > improper to inform them of his status on his business card?
> >
> > Yes.
>
>
> OK, let's try again: I agree that he should not give such
> a business card to those to whom he's applying for professional
> positions: they have his CV, and his CV is the proper way of informing
> them of his qualifications. That was your main argument, or so I
> thought.
Yes. I mean, I would guess that in general a Ph.D. student, even one
who is in the job market, isn't particularly expected to have business
cards, as useful as they might be.
> But you recall that I said I'd seen it done. I've seen
> it done only once. The circumstances were that the head of a local
> chapter of the American Statistical Association was a PhD candidate.
> Some of the professionals in the field had only masters degrees and
> some had PhDs. Her position in the association meant she might be
> inviting speakers and arranging meetings. I don't think she was
> giving her card to prospective employers. She may have given it to
> people she talked to abouting speaking at meetings. Mentioning her
> status may have obviated misunderstanding and prevented people from
> looking for her name on a list of faculty members at the university
> she was affiliated with. Your objection that she should not give
> it to prospective employers does not apply to that situation.
True. I still don't think it's appropriate to have "Ph.D. Candidate"
printed up on business cards just for that purpose.
Richard Fontana
> Murray Arnow wrote:
> >
> > Most people won't cavil, but those in the know will wonder "what kind
> > of character am I dealing with"? At this point in a career, it is more
> > important to avoid wearing brown suites to interviews than to worry
> > about what to put on personal business cards.
>
> This "brown shoes" (which is what I assume you meant)
> reference has come up before.
Coop, please, PLEEZE don't tell me you wear brown suits, which is
obviously what Murray meant. (Unless they're, like, Armani or
something. "Brown suit" usually calls to mind one of those late '70s
polyester atrocities, the sort your Xerox repair guy with the
short-sleeved dress shirt might wear if he had to wear a suit. Dr.
Arnow knows that of which he speaks.)
> I think I may have owned a
> pair or two of casual brown shoes, but my dress shoes have
> always been black or cordovan. I have often worn cordovan
> shoes with business dress.
That's entirely appropriate in particular contexts, Coop. Whether your
casual brown shoes are needed might depend on what sort of shoes you
have in mind.
> My favorite casual business outfit was a camel's hair
> jacket, blue oxford shirt,
100% cotton, I hope.
> black slacks (trousers to some),
> and cordovan shoes.
Hmm. Probably okay. I suppose you get Mrs. Coop to sign off on those
things.
> I have a pair of cordovan cap-toed
> Johnson & Murphy shoes
Coop, you wuz robbed! The legitimate brand, and a fine one it is, is
"Johnston & Murphy". Those Hibernians can really cobble!
> that I will wear with grey or navy
> suits.
> Highly polished cordovan is as dressy as black, and
> very accepted in sartorial circles.
You are correct sir. But you may be implying that black shoes
shouldn't be polished, and if so I disagree.
> Black shoes - in and by themselves - is no indication of
> stylishness.
True.
> You might as well wear those blue and white
> beach flip-flops
"Thongs" in my native dialect.
> as black shoes with molded foam rubber
> soles or even those terrible glued on vinyl (or whatever
> they are) soles. Proper dress shoes are made of smooth
> leather uppers and sewn leather soles.
Correct. Ideally one should get made-to-measure shoes, though I've
never done so.
> Hush Puppies and napped surfaced uppers outside of the home
> are the mark of a research scientist.
Correct. Why is that, anyway? I think this might go back to what I
was telling you about Dilbert.
> If there is one firm and fast rule about business style
> below-the-knee it is that skin should never show no matter
> how high the trouser legs hike up. I have seen men on
> interview shows with one leg crossed over the other causing
> an unsightly display of shin skin. I avert my eyes. I
> would never vote for a politician so crass, I'd sell my
> stock in a company run by such a lout, and pay little
> attention to a business or political analyst that gave so
> little thought to important things.
Correct. NTTAWWT, but I associate this look with famed American
dissident intellectual and leading twentieth century linguist, MIT's
Noam Chomsky, because I once saw a photo of him wearing a suit with his
legs crossed revealing a whole lot of lower leg skin.
GrapeApe
>> business card. I don't know why his fellow students require business
>> cards. I haven't seen any justification, or maybe this is fad like
>> body piercing.
>
>Handing out calling or business cards is very much a part of some cultures.
>I just wonder that something that will be very shortlived would require
>acknowledgement. (He said he expects to receive his degree very soon.
>Of
>course, he wants to have cards ready to hand out during his job search,
>and
>doesn't want to claim the Ph.D. before earning it.)
I have seen the business cards of doctoral candidates that have had business
cards. Nowhere have these cards indicated the holders were doctoral candidates.
They might have Name, innocuous title (such as research assistant),
Department, phone number at some office the bulk where the bulk of the students
work may be done, and will look like any other business card from that
institution.
If you are not provided one by working there, do not by any means go out and
make one. A calling card with contact info only will suffice. A business card
is not a susbstitute for a resume or C.V. (Better yet, discuss this "business
card" matter with faculty advisors, not a bunch of yahoos on usenet)
Many institutions, if the grad student is getting paid (or credit towards
tuition) will have departmental cards for these students; because many times it
is actually the students that are doing the lions share of contacting and grunt
work, and will be serving as a primary interface with the rest of the world.
Often they will be teaching assistants. If you don't have such a card, you
probably don't need one, and therefore, shouldn't have one. Plenty of people
enter the working world without business cards.
Dong
>
> If you were university staff you'd have an *official* business card (if
> you were entitled to get such business cards) from the university. It
> should be obvious from the appearance of your card that it's not an
> official university card.
>
otherwise the university would allow graduate employee union and other
stuff they don't want.
I am getting official business card with the university logo on it.
My title from the univ is "graduate research assistant". I just
need to fill in the info and the university printing service will
print the cards for me. I can even charge the cost to our research
group's account. By default, most graduate students in the College
of Engineering would have "graduate research assistant" on their
cards. Some have "teaching assistant". Fewer have other titles.
I don't understand what you have against "grad res assistant".
After all, 90% of the actual reseach work is done by them.
Without them, the acadamic research in US universities would
collaps. Would "Cheaply paid research scientist" be a better
description? Unfortunately, it is take by the postdocs already :(
No I don't think RA is a bad title. I do research, but my status don't
allow me to be the PI of the project and get funding under my name.
So I am a reseach assitant to the project leader.
Dong
Pat Durkin
"Dong" <ldx...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:dVrv8.42159$tg4.5...@vixen.cso.uiuc.edu...
> On Wed, 17 Apr 2002 20:10:41 -0400, Richard Fontana wrote:
> >
> > If you were university staff you'd have an *official* business card (if
> > you were entitled to get such business cards) from the university. It
> > should be obvious from the appearance of your card that it's not an
> > official university card.
> >
> That's the vague part. I have a staff card but was treated as student,
> otherwise the university would allow graduate employee union and other
> stuff they don't want.
>
> I am getting official business card with the university logo on it.
> My title from the univ is "graduate research assistant". I just
> need to fill in the info and the university printing service will
> print the cards for me. I can even charge the cost to our research
> group's account. By default, most graduate students in the College
> of Engineering would have "graduate research assistant" on their
> cards. Some have "teaching assistant". Fewer have other titles.
OK, Dong.
And Good luck in getting the benefits you are working for.
David Squire
> On 17 Apr 2002 20:32:48 GMT, Arcadian Rises <arcadi...@aol.com> wrote:
> >
> > As for the example given, to inform a journalist about your area of expertise
> > by writing "PhD candidate" on your business card, I find it
> > - at best irrelevant, since there is no guarantee that you'd ever get your PhD, > or your application for a PhD was not frivolous
> >
> Ph.D. candidate usually has passed all the qualification and
> preliminary exam.
In the U.S. system that may be so. In many other countries anyone enrolled in a PhD is a PhD candidate - and there may be no exams
whatsoever.
Regards,
D.
Laura F Spira
[..]
> >
>
> Most people won't cavil, but those in the know will wonder "what kind
> of character am I dealing with"? At this point in a career, it is more
> important to avoid wearing brown suites to interviews than to worry
> about what to put on personal business cards.
One day brown suits will become fashionable, I expect, but it seems to
be taking a very long time. I can remember my father making derogatory
comments about a brown-suited individual more than forty years ago.
As for brown suites, my parents had one. It was covered in something
called "uncut moquette" which always struck me as a very odd name.
Presumably there is also a fabric called "cut moquette".
--
Laura
(emulate St. George for email)
Simon R. Hughes
> ar...@iname.com (Murray Arnow) writes:
>
> > mjh...@mit.edu (Michael J Hardy) wrote:
> >
> > > I think you misunderstand. "PhD candidate" is not an ambition;
> > >it's an official status in a graduate program. The title can be
> > >used honestly only if he's been admitted to the PhD program and to
> > >candidacy for that degree. -- Mike Hardy
> > >
> >
> > But not on a business card. I don't know why this chap requires a
> > business card. I don't know why his fellow students require business
> > cards. I haven't seen any justification, or maybe this is fad like
> > body piercing.
>
> As someone who works in industrial research and therefore often has
> meetings with delegations from universities, I can attest that
> business cards are useful, both to remind me the names of the people I
> met with and as a place to jot down what I promised to send them.[1]
> They are similarly useful at conferences when you meet someone and
> want them to get in touch with you (or want to get in touch with them)
> when you both get back home.
[...]
Haven't you heard of Palm's IR transfer? What's the point of being a
techie, if you don't use some techie stuff?
> [1] As an aside, this is a good reason to *not* have a translation of
> your business card into Japanese on the back. The blank space is
> nearly as important as the information on the front. (By all
> means have some with translations if you need them, but you'll be
> more likely to get what people promise to send you if the back is
> blank.)
--
Simon R. Hughes
Murray Arnow
>That's the vague part. I have a staff card but was treated as student,
>otherwise the university would allow graduate employee union and other
>stuff they don't want.
>
>I am getting official business card with the university logo on it.
>My title from the univ is "graduate research assistant". I just
>need to fill in the info and the university printing service will
>print the cards for me. I can even charge the cost to our research
>group's account. By default, most graduate students in the College
>of Engineering would have "graduate research assistant" on their
>cards. Some have "teaching assistant". Fewer have other titles.
>
This is where I do an about-face. You didn't say that this card was a
university business-card. I was under the impression that this was a
personal business-card. A company provided card with whatever title
you have is always acceptable.
Murray Arnow
>Murray Arnow wrote:
>
>[..]
>
>As for brown suites, my parents had one. It was covered in something
>called "uncut moquette" which always struck me as a very odd name.
>Presumably there is also a fabric called "cut moquette".
>
It is fortunate that your parents wore the same size.
Frances Kemmish
> Murray Arnow wrote:
>
> [..]
>
>
>>Most people won't cavil, but those in the know will wonder "what kind
>>of character am I dealing with"? At this point in a career, it is more
>>important to avoid wearing brown suites to interviews than to worry
>>about what to put on personal business cards.
>>
>
> One day brown suits will become fashionable, I expect, but it seems to
> be taking a very long time. I can remember my father making derogatory
> comments about a brown-suited individual more than forty years ago.
>
According to my friend Georgia, who used to be a buyer for Saks
Fifth Ave, only losers wear brown.
Fran
eleni
"Richard Fontana" <rf...@sparky.cs.nyu.edu> wrote in message
news:Pine.GSO.4.44.020417...@sparky.cs.nyu.edu...
> On Wed, 17 Apr 2002, Tony Cooper wrote:
> > You might as well wear those blue and white
> > beach flip-flops
>
> "Thongs" in my native dialect.
Not in *this* New Yorker's dialect. My thongs are worn on the other end
of the legs!
Matti Lamprhey
> "Richard Fontana" <rf...@sparky.cs.nyu.edu> wrote...
> > Tony Cooper wrote:
> > >
> > > You might as well wear those blue and white beach flip-flops
> >
> > "Thongs" in my native dialect.
>
> Not in *this* New Yorker's dialect. My thongs are worn on the other end
> of the legs!
Funny -- up there you wouldn't think they'd get much wear.
Matti
Richard Fontana
> On Wed, 17 Apr 2002 20:10:41 -0400, Richard Fontana wrote:
> >
> > If you were university staff you'd have an *official* business card (if
> > you were entitled to get such business cards) from the university. It
> > should be obvious from the appearance of your card that it's not an
> > official university card.
> >
> That's the vague part. I have a staff card but was treated as student,
> otherwise the university would allow graduate employee union and other
> stuff they don't want.
I'm not sure what you mean by "staff card" here. Just an ordinary
student ID card?
> I am getting official business card with the university logo on it.
> My title from the univ is "graduate research assistant". I just
> need to fill in the info and the university printing service will
> print the cards for me. I can even charge the cost to our research
> group's account. By default, most graduate students in the College
> of Engineering would have "graduate research assistant" on their
> cards. Some have "teaching assistant". Fewer have other titles.
Okay, that's quite interesting, and changes things slightly, but only
very slightly. I know something about these assistantship positions.
They're term-defined. For example, one isn't a "permanent" teaching
assistant -- those positions are defined by term or semester, even if
they're renewed as a matter of course. Okay, you might say that
doesn't matter, since anyone can get business cards in a conventional
job, say working for Tony Cooper, and then Tony Cooper can fire them
the next day (or the same day), and they'll still have all these
business cards. Well, Tony Cooper is out the money, anyway. So, yes,
this changes things somewhat. But see below.
> I don't understand what you have against "grad res assistant".
> After all, 90% of the actual reseach work is done by them.
> Without them, the acadamic research in US universities would
> collaps.
That's only true in certain fields, but I take your point.
> Would "Cheaply paid research scientist" be a better
> description? Unfortunately, it is take by the postdocs already :(
Actually yes, I think something like that would be better. If postdocs
are "Research Scientists", as they well might be, then give the
graduate student researchers a dignified title like "Assistant Research
Scientist" or (better) "Associate Research Scientist" or "Research
Associate". Some people here may laugh, but I think those things can
matter. "Graduate Research Assistant" is accurate, but it's silly. If
these positions were so worthy of getting a business card for then the
research assistants would get paid a lot more money (yes, I realize
they're technically getting a great amount of money in the form of
tuition, but I don't think that really counts -- after all, postdocs
don't have to pay tuition). Sure, PhD students are basically satisfied
with this state of affairs, because what they want is to get the PhD. But I
think there's some complacency and information failure that's typically
involved. For example, you seem not to understand how lowly-sounding
a title "Graduate Research Assistant" is.
> No I don't think RA is a bad title. I do research, but my status don't
> allow me to be the PI of the project and get funding under my name.
> So I am a reseach assitant to the project leader.
You're a "graduate student". My suggestion is that these business
cards are a pretty good idea, but they should say "Graduate Student".
Believe it or not, that's a more dignified title than "Graduate
Research Assistant", let alone "Teaching Assistant". Don't think so?
Ask yourself why you're there. It's because you want the academic
credential (and the experience it implies). You're not there because
you want to be a Graduate Research Assistant. Ask yourself this: If
the university or your department or some outside organization decided
to give you a condition-free scholarship to fund the remainder of your
doctoral studies, would you take it? Yes, because then you'd be free
of any specific obligations to be a "research assistant". In that
case, you aren't a "Graduate Research Assistant". You have independent
funding. But that's always a better state of affairs. The only reason
-- I think I may have said this already -- that these "assistant"
positions exist is that they have to find some way of getting funding
for these students, as scholarships are not plentiful. So, what I'm
saying is, these "assistantships" are second-best solutions. They're
not worth putting on a business card. The business card should say
"Graduate Student". If you don't like that because it doesn't
distinguish you from those lowly master's degree students, then you
could always list your received degrees on your card (e.g. "M.S."),
assuming you've received a post-baccalaureate degree.
Tony Cooper
>
> On Wed, 17 Apr 2002, Tony Cooper wrote:
>
> > This "brown shoes" (which is what I assume you meant)
> > reference has come up before.
>
> Coop, please, PLEEZE don't tell me you wear brown suits, which is
> obviously what Murray meant. (Unless they're, like, Armani or
> something. "Brown suit" usually calls to mind one of those late '70s
> polyester atrocities, the sort your Xerox repair guy with the
> short-sleeved dress shirt might wear if he had to wear a suit. Dr.
> Arnow knows that of which he speaks.)
I thought he meant shoes, not suits. I can't recall if I've
ever owned a brown suit, but I have worn several tan suits
in summer. Haspell (?), I think. With cordovan shoes.
> Hmm. Probably okay. I suppose you get Mrs. Coop to sign off on those
> things.
She doesn't shop with me for men's clothes. She is actually
a bit more conservative than I am in matching ties to
shirts. She is a hawk at noticing that I try to wear an
old-favorite tie that is now too wide or too narrow in
today's view. I don't wear a suit that often now, and I
hate to give up some of my old-favorite ties.
>
> Correct. Ideally one should get made-to-measure shoes, though I've
> never done so.
Nor have I. I did buy a couple of pair of Church's shoes in
London. Damn things never fit right, and they never wear
out. The fit was my error, not theirs. Translating sizes
caused the problem. They were just a bit too short for
these 10.5 D feet.
Tony Cooper
>
> As for brown suites, my parents had one. It was covered in something
> called "uncut moquette" which always struck me as a very odd name.
> Presumably there is also a fabric called "cut moquette".
Is "living room suite" - meaning a group of furniture for
that room - used over there? Pronounced "sweet"? It seems
there is another term used in Britain for a group of
furniture, but I can't think of it.
Tony Cooper
>
>
> Yes. I mean, I would guess that in general a Ph.D. student, even one
> who is in the job market, isn't particularly expected to have business
> cards, as useful as they might be.
>
weeks, and one always had hundreds left over when a new
title or phone number required more. Now, reasonably decent
cards can be printed on a computer. I can print a page of
six or so, and do it in minutes. Specialty cards for
special situations can be done.
Jonathan Miller
> My previous employer private labeled products for a Japanese firm. We
> were told it is bad form to write on a Japanese person's business card.
Good. That should keep you from getting into trouble.
Jon Miller
Evan Kirshenbaum
> Thus Spake Evan Kirshenbaum:
>
> > As someone who works in industrial research and therefore often
> > has meetings with delegations from universities, I can attest that
> > business cards are useful, both to remind me the names of the
> > people I met with and as a place to jot down what I promised to
> > send them.[1] They are similarly useful at conferences when you
> > meet someone and want them to get in touch with you (or want to
> > get in touch with them) when you both get back home.
>
> Haven't you heard of Palm's IR transfer? What's the point of being a
> techie, if you don't use some techie stuff?
For many years, I kept a spiral-bound notebook in my pocket, for
jotting down notes, phone numbers, and lists, and for writing
reminders to myself. Then I got a PDA (a Handspring Visor). I love
it. It keeps my calendar, holds all my phone numbers and addresses,
has a decent calculator[1], and plays a reasonable game of cribbage.
It also maintains a to-do list and allows me to write down notes and
lists.
After a few months, though, I found that when it came to notes and
lists, the PDA was a write-only file system. There was nothing that
made me go back and look at them. And with to-do lists, I was
forgetting things. I've now gone back to *also* carrying a notebook,
for jotting down lists and writing reminders. I tear the reminders
out and put them in another pocket, where I can't help tripping over
them, until I finally actually do what needs to be done. Business
cards are the same way. Sure, beaming the info will get it into my
address book. But it's unlikely to result in my sending you the copy
of the report I promised.
Also, when I read your comment, my first impression was of a meeting
starting with five people from each group sitting around a table and
trying to beam their info to each of the five people in the other
group. We'd have to add another 15 minutes onto every meeting.
Finally, I should mention the other use of business cards--laying them
out discreetly in front of you in an order corresponding to the
seating at the table, to remind yourself of which name and position
goes with which person. Somewhat hard to do with a PDA.
[1] Which, among other things is good at unit conversions. With the
experiments I run, I regularly have to convert between seconds and
hours or days to estimate running time.
--
Evan Kirshenbaum +------------------------------------
HP Laboratories |The mystery of government is not how
1501 Page Mill Road, 1U, MS 1141 |Washington works, but how to make it
Palo Alto, CA 94304 |stop.
| P.J. O'Rourke
kirsh...@hpl.hp.com
(650)857-7572
Armond Perretta
> Theodore Heise wrote:
>
> > ... We were told it is bad form to write on a Japanese person's business
> > card.
Correct. The accepted procedure is to wait until the card has been given to
you. Only then is it yours to do with as you see fit.
--
Good luck and good sailing.
s/v Kerry Deare of Barnegat
http://kerrydeare.tripod.com
Laura F Spira
>
> Laura F Spira wrote:
> >
> > As for brown suites, my parents had one. It was covered in something
> > called "uncut moquette" which always struck me as a very odd name.
> > Presumably there is also a fabric called "cut moquette".
>
> Is "living room suite" - meaning a group of furniture for
> that room - used over there? Pronounced "sweet"? It seems
> there is another term used in Britain for a group of
> furniture, but I can't think of it.
>
>
there before) and two armchairs. In my youth, the posh people had a
matching pouffe.
Matti Lamprhey
> >
> Traditionally, a three piece suite - sofa (or couch - I think we've been
> there before) and two armchairs. In my youth, the posh people had a
> matching pouffe.
Award two Mischief Stars for adding that last sentence.
Matti
david56
It's only bad form in front of the owner. It's normal practice for
Japanese business people to write salient points on your card (front or
back) after meeting you, and then file it for later retrieval in case
they correspond with you or meet you again later. This enables them to
ask you if you've finished your PhD, or whatever.
The business card has fundamental importance in Japanese corporate
life. It indicates, by subtle codes, the status of the holder, how long
he has been employed, how old he is, and whether he went to a top
university. I say "he" because Japanese women, although receiving equal
education to age 22, rarely make it past 25 without getting married and
leaving paid work for ever.
--
David
I say what it occurs to me to say.
The address is valid today, but I will change it to keep ahead of the
spammers.
Mike Page
<la...@DRAGONspira.u-net.com> wrote:
>Murray Arnow wrote:
>
>[..]
>
>> >
>>
>> Most people won't cavil, but those in the know will wonder "what kind
>> of character am I dealing with"? At this point in a career, it is more
>> important to avoid wearing brown suites to interviews than to worry
>> about what to put on personal business cards.
>
>One day brown suits will become fashionable, I expect, but it seems to
>be taking a very long time. I can remember my father making derogatory
>comments about a brown-suited individual more than forty years ago.
Brown suits have always been permissible *in the country*.
Wearing them in town has been regarded as a solecism by some.
Generally by the same people who think it bad form to wear brown
shoes with a blue suit.
I had a difficult dilemma recently, when running a research
methods workshop in Leicester. Should I wear brown shoes with my
blue suit without comment, or should I reveal that I had managed
to bring one shoe from each of the two serviceable pairs of black
shoes that I possess. In the end I made no comment, deciding
that the kind of person who thinks that only bounders and
counter-jumpers wear brown shoes with a blue suit, has probably
no capacity for critical thought, and is thus fit only to become
a member of the armed services, a quality auditor or a traffic
warden.
>
>As for brown suites, my parents had one. It was covered in something
>called "uncut moquette" which always struck me as a very odd name.
>Presumably there is also a fabric called "cut moquette".
My parents, of the solid middle, middle classes, had a suite of
cut moquette. Bits of the fabric were shaved off to make a
pattern not unlike the flock wall paper in Indian restaurants.
The suite was uncomfortable, but forty years later we are still
using its (Dralon) replacement. It's probably time we got a new
one; Mrs Page is getting less forbearing of my forebear's choice.
Mike Page, BF(UU)
Let the ape escape for e-mail
Mike Page
<la...@DRAGONspira.u-net.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>Traditionally, a three piece suite - sofa (or couch - I think we've been
>there before) and two armchairs. In my youth, the posh people had a
>matching pouffe.
It's rumoured the Queen Mum had several. The story goes that one
day she rang down to the servants hall and said 'Would you old
queens down there stop arguing, the old Queen up here wants her
supper'.
Padraig Breathnach
>I had a difficult dilemma recently, when running a research
>methods workshop in Leicester. Should I wear brown shoes with my
>blue suit without comment, or should I reveal that I had managed
>to bring one shoe from each of the two serviceable pairs of black
>shoes that I possess. In the end I made no comment, deciding
>that the kind of person who thinks that only bounders and
>counter-jumpers wear brown shoes with a blue suit, has probably
>no capacity for critical thought, and is thus fit only to become
>a member of the armed services, a quality auditor or a traffic
>warden.
>
Life does present some tough challenges, doesn't it?
You did not consider other possibilities, like wearing one brown shoe,
and one black. You could have used it a metaphor for something.
You take a harsh view of members of the armed services and traffic
wardens: their shoes are co-ordinated with their uniforms. I saves
then from being distracted by difficult questions, and allows them to
focus on the more important matters with which their lives are
concerned.
You are probably right about quality auditors.
PB
R J Valentine
} Laura F Spira wrote:
}>
}> As for brown suites, my parents had one. It was covered in something
}> called "uncut moquette" which always struck me as a very odd name.
}> Presumably there is also a fabric called "cut moquette".
}
} Is "living room suite" - meaning a group of furniture for
} that room - used over there? Pronounced "sweet"?
Pronounced "suit" some places.
} It seems
} there is another term used in Britain for a group of
} furniture, but I can't think of it.
"Set" or "settee"?
ObTopic: Better to put "I haven't earned a Ph.D." on the business card.
ObBrE: Or is that "I didn't earn a Ph.D."?
ObOx: Or is that "I didn't earn a D.Phil."?
--
R. J. Valentine <mailto:r...@smart.net>
"I didn't earn a J.D."
Tony Cooper
>
> } It seems
> } there is another term used in Britain for a group of
> } furniture, but I can't think of it.
>
> "Set" or "settee"?
No, it'll come to me. Kind of a Bertie Wooster phrase.
Richard Fontana
> R J Valentine wrote:
> >
> > } It seems
> > } there is another term used in Britain for a group of
> > } furniture, but I can't think of it.
> >
> > "Set" or "settee"?
>
> No, it'll come to me. Kind of a Bertie Wooster phrase.
You're thinking of "en suite", Coop. Twas discussed on AUE a year or
three ago. Canadians seem to use it too.
Tony Cooper
I dunno about you, Richard, but the furniture I've sat on in
"en suite" locations was made of porcelain. That certainly
wasn't it.
Tony Cooper
>
> Richard Fontana wrote:
> >
> > On Fri, 19 Apr 2002, Tony Cooper wrote:
> >
> > > R J Valentine wrote:
> > > >
> > > > } It seems
> > > > } there is another term used in Britain for a group of
> > > > } furniture, but I can't think of it.
> > > >
> > > > "Set" or "settee"?
> > >
> > > No, it'll come to me. Kind of a Bertie Wooster phrase.
> >
> > You're thinking of "en suite", Coop. Twas discussed on AUE a year or
> > three ago. Canadians seem to use it too.
>
> I dunno about you, Richard, but the furniture I've sat on in
> "en suite" locations was made of porcelain. That certainly
> wasn't it.
I do see in M-W that "en suite" can mean a matched set.
I've always used to mean "I'd prefer a toilet facilities
connected to my room, and not down the hall and up the
stairs."
The term, though, that I was thinking of is "lounge set".
The only place I can verify this on the web is
http://www.grannie-annie.co.uk/Downstairs_Furniture.htm
which is dollhouse furniture.
Matti Lamprhey
>
> The term, though, that I was thinking of is "lounge set".
> The only place I can verify this on the web is
> http://www.grannie-annie.co.uk/Downstairs_Furniture.htm
> which is dollhouse furniture.
I've never heard "lounge set" in Britain -- it sounds more like something
Hyacinth might wear. As Laura said in her posting, the usual term is a
"three-piece suite". We would also say "dolls' house", never "dollhouse".
Did you mean to write "dosshouse", perhaps?
Matti
Laura F Spira
[..]
>
> I had a difficult dilemma
Obaue: isn't a dilemma inherently difficult?
recently, when running a research
> methods workshop in Leicester. Should I wear brown shoes with my
> blue suit without comment, or should I reveal that I had managed
> to bring one shoe from each of the two serviceable pairs of black
> shoes that I possess. In the end I made no comment, deciding
> that the kind of person who thinks that only bounders and
> counter-jumpers wear brown shoes with a blue suit, has probably
> no capacity for critical thought, and is thus fit only to become
> a member of the armed services, a quality auditor or a traffic
> warden.
How interesting! I found myself in a similar dilemma recently as to
whether it would be appropriate to comment on the get-up of a dear
friend who was, like you, wearing a blue suit with brown shoes (not even
high class brown shoes, of the kind that Tony and Richard have been
discussing). I decided to say nothing, although I resolved that, should
I overhear adverse comment from others who might have noticed, I would
defend my friend by pointing out that his intellectual eminence made
sartorial error only to be expected, entirely forgiveable and, indeed,
quite endearing. In the event, this proved unnecessary: there were more
interesting things to discuss.
However, an event next week will find me on a public platform with the
same dear friend where the audience may be more sophisticated and
fashion-conscious. How can I ensure that no such solecism reoccurs? Any
advice would be very welcome.
>
> >
> >As for brown suites, my parents had one. It was covered in something
> >called "uncut moquette" which always struck me as a very odd name.
> >Presumably there is also a fabric called "cut moquette".
>
> My parents, of the solid middle, middle classes, had a suite of
> cut moquette. Bits of the fabric were shaved off to make a
> pattern not unlike the flock wall paper in Indian restaurants.
> The suite was uncomfortable, but forty years later we are still
> using its (Dralon) replacement. It's probably time we got a new
> one; Mrs Page is getting less forbearing of my forebear's choice.
>
>
Ours had a pattern too. Perhaps I am confused and it was cut moquette. I
shall make enquiries.
Laura F Spira
Misbehaviour (where are you, Tootsie?)
Charles Riggs
<kirsh...@hpl.hp.com> wrote:
>For many years, I kept a spiral-bound notebook in my pocket, for
>jotting down notes, phone numbers, and lists, and for writing
>reminders to myself.
What I do now, along with a personal organizer, if that's what they're
called.
>Then I got a PDA (a Handspring Visor). I love
>it. It keeps my calendar, holds all my phone numbers and addresses,
>has a decent calculator[1], and plays a reasonable game of cribbage.
>It also maintains a to-do list and allows me to write down notes and
>lists.
Excuse my ignorance, but what does PDA stand for? I'm in the market
for what you describe, especially if the notes you mention can be a
hundred words long or more. I'm a big believer and user of to-do
lists, always keeping one in my wallet.
Does yours have a KB or a stylus thingie?
--
Charles Riggs
Matti Lamprhey
> > Laura wrote...
> > > >
> > > Traditionally, a three piece suite - sofa (or couch - I think we've
> > > been there before) and two armchairs. In my youth, the posh people
> > > had a matching pouffe.
> >
> > Award two Mischief Stars for adding that last sentence.
> >
> Thank you but bear in mind that I am a founder member of the Axis of
> Misbehaviour (where are you, Tootsie?)
I'm glad my subtle reminder was unnecessary after all, then.
Matti
-- hoping this is demonstrating the difference between mischief &
misbehaviour
david56
> Excuse my ignorance, but what does PDA stand for? I'm in the market
> for what you describe, especially if the notes you mention can be a
> hundred words long or more. I'm a big believer and user of to-do
> lists, always keeping one in my wallet.
Personal Digital Assistant.
Simon R. Hughes
>
> However, an event next week will find me on a public platform with the
> same dear friend where the audience may be more sophisticated and
> fashion-conscious.
I think you mean "petty".
> How can I ensure that no such solecism reoccurs? Any
> advice would be very welcome.
Let him wear what he wears. If anyone comments, defend him by
accusing the commentor of childish shallowness. Inform the commentor
that we no longer live in the school playground, and that you would
expect better manners from teenagers.
Or you could have some fun and make fun of the commentor for not
following the Paris fashion scene closely enough.
Or you could make disparaging remarks about his or her mother.
--
Simon R. Hughes
Tony Cooper
>
> "Tony Cooper" <tony_co...@yahoo.com> wrote...
> >
> > The term, though, that I was thinking of is "lounge set".
> > The only place I can verify this on the web is
> > http://www.grannie-annie.co.uk/Downstairs_Furniture.htm
> > which is dollhouse furniture.
>
> I've never heard "lounge set" in Britain -- it sounds more like something
> Hyacinth might wear.
As I said, it's an older term that I've come across in
reading. Probably from a book or books written in the 50s.
Maybe further back from the times that dosshouses were
about.
As Laura said in her posting, the usual term is a
> "three-piece suite". We would also say "dolls' house", never "dollhouse".
> Did you mean to write "dosshouse", perhaps?
I built a doll house for my daughter once. Other than that,
it's not a term I'd bandy about very often. I'm not sure if
it's proper to say "dollshouse" or "doll house", but I hear
the latter in my mind. I'm not sure if there's a space
between "doll" and "house", as there is static in the
transmission of signals from my mind unless I'm wearing my
aluminum hat. I am quite sure, though, that I wouldn't use
"dolls' house".
In looking up the term "lounge set", I did come across a
number of references to lingerie. "Lounge set" seems a
rather inappropriate term for filmy things. Do you people
often sit around in the lounge dressed in fancy but
revealing underwear? English houses can be so drafty, but
perhaps goose-bumps are a turn on to English men.
Tony Cooper
>
>
> However, an event next week will find me on a public platform with the
> same dear friend where the audience may be more sophisticated and
> fashion-conscious. How can I ensure that no such solecism reoccurs? Any
> advice would be very welcome.
I usually rely on the old anonymous third party ploy. As in
"I hope that one of those grouchy old pedants doesn't pick
apart my speech. You know, the ones that wear brown shoes
with blue suits." The thought is implanted with negative
connotations.
Richard Fontana
> Matti Lamprhey wrote:
> As Laura said in her posting, the usual term is a
> > "three-piece suite". We would also say "dolls' house", never "dollhouse".
>
> I built a doll house for my daughter once. Other than that,
> it's not a term I'd bandy about very often. I'm not sure if
> it's proper to say "dollshouse" or "doll house", but I hear
> the latter in my mind. I'm not sure if there's a space
> between "doll" and "house", as there is static in the
> transmission of signals from my mind unless I'm wearing my
> aluminum hat. I am quite sure, though, that I wouldn't use
> "dolls' house".
It's "dollhouse" in American English, Coop, unless you're talking
about Ibsen. In Hiberno-Britic it would appear to be otherwise.
david56
Definitely "dolls house" in UK English, but I don't know if there's an
apostrophe.
Matti Lamprhey
>
> It's "dollhouse" in American English, Coop, unless you're talking
> about Ibsen. In Hiberno-Britic it would appear to be otherwise.
I missed your justification for this fascinating "Hiberno-Britic" term,
Richard?
Matti
Matti Lamprhey
>
> In looking up the term "lounge set", I did come across a
> number of references to lingerie. "Lounge set" seems a
> rather inappropriate term for filmy things. Do you people
> often sit around in the lounge dressed in fancy but
> revealing underwear? English houses can be so drafty, but
> perhaps goose-bumps are a turn on to English men.
A lounge set sounds more buttoned-up to me; as for fancy and revealing
underwear -- that's what garden sheds are for, I think.
Here in Hiberno-Britic pondia it's only pub cellars that are drafty. And
goose-bumps are a turn-on FOR, not TO, English men. On the principle that
what's bumpy for the goose is saucy for the gander.
Always glad to be of help, especially on Fridays,
Matti
david56
>
> In looking up the term "lounge set", I did come across a
> number of references to lingerie. "Lounge set" seems a
> rather inappropriate term for filmy things. Do you people
> often sit around in the lounge dressed in fancy but
> revealing underwear? English houses can be so drafty, but
> perhaps goose-bumps are a turn on to English men.
We don't all live in Victorian semis, you know. It would be quite in
order to sit around in our living room (never "lounge" for me) in one's
underwear, even in the winter.
Matti Lamprhey
> Richard Fontana wrote:
> > Tony Cooper wrote:
> > > Matti Lamprhey wrote:
> >
> > > As Laura said in her posting, the usual term is a
> > > > "three-piece suite". We would also say "dolls' house", never
> > > > "dollhouse".
> > >
> > > I built a doll house for my daughter once. Other than that,
> > > it's not a term I'd bandy about very often. I'm not sure if
> > > it's proper to say "dollshouse" or "doll house", but I hear
> > > the latter in my mind. I'm not sure if there's a space
> > > between "doll" and "house", as there is static in the
> > > transmission of signals from my mind unless I'm wearing my
> > > aluminum hat. I am quite sure, though, that I wouldn't use
> > > "dolls' house".
> >
> > It's "dollhouse" in American English, Coop, unless you're talking
> > about Ibsen. In Hiberno-Britic it would appear to be otherwise.
>
> Definitely "dolls house" in UK English, but I don't know if there's an
> apostrophe.
NSOED gives "doll's house" rather than "dolls' house"; but then most of
these contain multiple dolls so I prefer my version. And "dollhouse" is
given as the Americo-Erratic version.
Matti
Tony Cooper
>
> Tony Cooper wrote:
> >
> > In looking up the term "lounge set", I did come across a
> > number of references to lingerie. "Lounge set" seems a
> > rather inappropriate term for filmy things. Do you people
> > often sit around in the lounge dressed in fancy but
> > revealing underwear? English houses can be so drafty, but
> > perhaps goose-bumps are a turn on to English men.
>
> We don't all live in Victorian semis, you know. It would be quite in
> order to sit around in our living room (never "lounge" for me) in one's
> underwear, even in the winter.
Fine, fine, but let's get into exactly how revealing the
underwear is. Who is "one's" ? Is it your underwear or
hers? Does she insist that you buy your own since you
stretch hers a bit?
rzed
"Matti Lamprhey" <matti-...@totally-official.com> wrote in message
news:a9pa9v$59pno$1...@ID-103223.news.dfncis.de...
[snippage]
> NSOED gives "doll's house" rather than "dolls' house"; but then most of
> these contain multiple dolls so I prefer my version. And "dollhouse" is
> given as the Americo-Erratic version.
>
"Americo-Erratic"? I kind of like it, but does it differ from
Americo-Erotic? I guess the meaning of "doll's house" would change....
david56
There's no discrimination in my house. All denizens are free to disport
themselves as they believe they must. I shall say no more.
(Except that I'm off to Florida on business for a week. I hope that my
trusty notebook will provide access to this august assembly while I'm
there.)
Michael J Hardy
> ObTopic: Better to put "I haven't earned a Ph.D." on the business card.
>
> ObBrE: Or is that "I didn't earn a Ph.D."?
"Haven't earned" could mean "haven't *yet* earned", but "didn't
earn" makes it sound as if you flunked out.
But any of those alternatives is lousy; it emphasizes the negative.
Mike Hardy
iwasaki
"david56" <bass.a...@ntlworld.com> wrote in message
news:3CBF2B8B...@ntlworld.com...
>
>[...] I say "he" because Japanese women, although receiving equal
> education to age 22, rarely make it past 25 without getting married and
> leaving paid work for ever.
That might be true until in the early '70s, but today
women's average age of marriage for the first time is 28,
and it's getting less and less to quit their jobs upon marriage.
More than half of the working women in Japan are married.
--
Nobuko Iwasaki
david56
It's entirely possible that my information is out of date. Are you
including all classes? I am only exposed to employees of the major
companies, and therefore graduates of the "best" universities. Are
things changing for this group as well?
Evan Kirshenbaum
> Excuse my ignorance, but what does PDA stand for?
Personal Digital Assistant.
> I'm in the market for what you describe, especially if the notes you
> mention can be a hundred words long or more.
Oh, yeah. It's pretty much just limited by the amount of memory you
put in the thing. I've just got a bare bones one, with two meg, but
even with that, notes of hundreds or even small numbers of thousand
words are no problem. I think that most these days come with at least
eight meg.
> I'm a big believer and user of to-do lists, always keeping one in my
> wallet.
The to-do lists are actually quite nice in that you can assign the
items to categories, so that you can see, for instance, only work
related tasks, and also in that you can attach arbitrarily large notes
behind the items.
> Does yours have a KB or a stylus thingie?
Mine has a stylus. You have to learn its way of writing, but it
actually took far less time than I would have thought to get used to
it. (The downside is that when writing with a pen I occasionally find
myself using the Palm strokes, actually writing spaces, or drawing an
uptick when I want a capital letter.) I'd recommend that over the
ones with keyboards as they're pathetically small keyboards anyway,
and the space can be better used for other things.
--
Evan Kirshenbaum +------------------------------------
HP Laboratories |Now and then an innocent man is sent
1501 Page Mill Road, 1U, MS 1141 |to the legislature.
Palo Alto, CA 94304 | Kim Hubbard
kirsh...@hpl.hp.com
(650)857-7572
Richard Fontana
You've been watching too many of those Australian soaps, methinks.
"Hiberno-Britic" basically means "the common features of Standard
Rightpondian English, reflecting, for the most part, the cultural
dominance of Southeastern England and other Traditional
Colonialist Oppressors of the Irish People". It's a term that is
mainly used in response to postings by Tony Cooper, for reasons I have
stated before, but recently I think the term has been used more generally.
Matti Lamprhey
> Matti Lamprhey wrote:
> > Richard Fontana wrote...
> > >
> > > It's "dollhouse" in American English, Coop, unless you're talking
> > > about Ibsen. In Hiberno-Britic it would appear to be otherwise.
> >
> > I missed your justification for this fascinating "Hiberno-Britic" term,
> > Richard?
>
> You've been watching too many of those Australian soaps, methinks.
>
> "Hiberno-Britic" basically means "the common features of Standard
> Rightpondian English, reflecting, for the most part, the cultural
> dominance of Southeastern England and other Traditional
> Colonialist Oppressors of the Irish People". It's a term that is
> mainly used in response to postings by Tony Cooper, for reasons I have
> stated before, but recently I think the term has been used more generally.
So why Hiberno, and how does this differ from RP? I neither wish to be
associated with Hibernia nor with those who supposedly oppress her.
Matti
Tony Cooper
It's a sub-set of Fontana-Cryptic which evolved from early
versions of Fontana-Hysteric.
Tony Cooper
>
> So why Hiberno, and how does this differ from RP? I neither wish to be
> associated with Hibernia nor with those who supposedly oppress her.
Which reminds of something I've always wondered...whence the
term "Emerald Island"? The association with green is clear,
but is there more to it?
Richard Fontana
> Matti Lamprhey wrote:
> >
> > So why Hiberno, and how does this differ from RP? I neither wish to be
> > associated with Hibernia nor with those who supposedly oppress her.
>
> Which reminds of something I've always wondered...whence the
> term "Emerald Island"? The association with green is clear,
> but is there more to it?
I've always assumed it referred to the particular sort of green you get
when it rains all the time, but I really don't know from Ireland.
Isn't it usually "Emerald *Isle*"?
Yes, says Google:
"emerald isle" 70100
"emerald island" 3960 (a non-trivial number of these refer to
Hawaii)
Coop, I see there's an "Emerald Island Resort" down your way -- maybe
that's influencing your choice of words.
Richard Fontana
It's quite different from RP. RP is an accent. Hiberno-Britic is
actually quite close to "Received Standard" and to what some here call
"International English", the lingua franca used by members of the
present or former British Commonwealth.
Ray Heindl
news:3cc23e12...@news.freeserve.net:
> I had a difficult dilemma recently, when running a research
> methods workshop in Leicester. Should I wear brown shoes with my
> blue suit without comment, or should I reveal that I had managed
> to bring one shoe from each of the two serviceable pairs of black
> shoes that I possess.
Years ago at work my supervisor showed up in mismatched shoes. Not
only did he have one brown and one black, which could be explained by
dressing in dim light, but one was a loafer and the other a laced
wingtip. That was a bit harder to explain.
--
Ray Heindl
Ray Heindl
news:3CBFA195...@yahoo.com:
>> I dunno about you, Richard, but the furniture I've sat on in
>> "en suite" locations was made of porcelain. That certainly
>> wasn't it.
>
> I do see in M-W that "en suite" can mean a matched set.
> I've always used to mean "I'd prefer a toilet facilities
> connected to my room, and not down the hall and up the
> stairs."
>
> The term, though, that I was thinking of is "lounge set".
> The only place I can verify this on the web is
> http://www.grannie-annie.co.uk/Downstairs_Furniture.htm
> which is dollhouse furniture.
Monty Python referred to a 'lounge suite' in one of their sketches
(<http://www.montypython.net/scripts/com-quiz.php>). Is that the
same thing?
--
Ray Heindl
david56
Yes. A sofa and two arm chairs. Not a very common term, but
comprehensible.
Simon R. Hughes
> Charles Riggs <chr...@gofree.indigo.ie> writes:
[...]
> > Does yours have a KB or a stylus thingie?
>
> Mine has a stylus. You have to learn its way of writing, but it
> actually took far less time than I would have thought to get used to
> it. (The downside is that when writing with a pen I occasionally find
> myself using the Palm strokes, actually writing spaces, or drawing an
> uptick when I want a capital letter.) I'd recommend that over the
> ones with keyboards as they're pathetically small keyboards anyway,
> and the space can be better used for other things.
I'll have you know that I have written documents of up to fifty
pages on my trusty Psion. It hurts after a while, but it's just as
quick typing on that as it is typing on a full-size keyboard.
It's a shame that Psion have pulled out of the market...
--
Simon R. Hughes
Simon R. Hughes
> On Fri, 19 Apr 2002, Matti Lamprhey wrote:
[...]
> > So why Hiberno, and how does this differ from RP? I neither wish to be
> > associated with Hibernia nor with those who supposedly oppress her.
>
> It's quite different from RP. RP is an accent. Hiberno-Britic is
> actually quite close to "Received Standard" and to what some here call
> "International English", the lingua franca used by members of the
> present or former British Commonwealth.
I think you mean "a load of bollocks that I thought up one morning
while in the shower".
--
Simon R. Hughes