A video for Richard Heathfield

[Athel Cornish-Bowden]

Richard has expressed scepticism about Tucker Carlson's far-right
propaganda. He might want to look at this:

https://crooksandliars.com/2022/05/jim-acosta-calls-out-tucker-carlson-name

We had a candidate in the recent French election who was pushing the
Grand Remplacement theory in France. This was Éric Zemmour, who makes
Marine Le Pen look like soft-hearted liberal. Typically, for the far
right in France, he's more worried about Muslims from North Africa than
he is about black people from sub-Saharan Africa. (His own parents,
incidentally, were immigrants from Algeria.) Fortunately he did rather
badly in the election (just under 7%), but who knows what will happen
next time; he is young enough for there to be a next time.

Not as many people have guns and ammunition in France as in the USA.
The drug dealers have their Kalashnikovs, of course, but they're more
interested in shooting one another than they are in the Grand
Remplacement.

--
Athel -- French and British, living mainly in England until 1987.

[Adam Funk]

On 2022-05-16, Athel Cornish-Bowden wrote:

> Richard has expressed scepticism about Tucker Carlson's far-right
> propaganda. He might want to look at this:
>
> https://crooksandliars.com/2022/05/jim-acosta-calls-out-tucker-carlson-name
>
> We had a candidate in the recent French election who was pushing the
> Grand Remplacement theory in France. This was Éric Zemmour, who makes
> Marine Le Pen look like soft-hearted liberal. Typically, for the far
> right in France, he's more worried about Muslims from North Africa than
> he is about black people from sub-Saharan Africa. (His own parents,
> incidentally, were immigrants from Algeria.)

I see that they were Jewish & moved to France during the Algerian War
--- does that qualify them as "pieds-noirs"?

> Fortunately he did rather
> badly in the election (just under 7%), but who knows what will happen
> next time; he is young enough for there to be a next time.
>
> Not as many people have guns and ammunition in France as in the USA.
> The drug dealers have their Kalashnikovs, of course, but they're more
> interested in shooting one another than they are in the Grand
> Remplacement.
>

--

Unix is a user-friendly operating system. It's just very choosy about
its friends.

[Tony Cooper]

The "Replacement Theory" is getting a great deal of press in the US of
late. Today's online _Washington Post_ has an extensive article on
the subject. The article highlights Tucker Carlson's and Laura
Ingraham's and Jeanine Pirro's frequent Fox News refrains on the
subject. (All three are Fox News commentators)

I'll link to the article, but it may be paywall-blocked:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/media/2022/05/15/buffalo-suspect-great-replacement-theory-conservative-media/?utm_campaign=

I'll quote the first paragraphs, though:

"The suspect in Saturday’s killing of 10 people at a Buffalo
supermarket allegedly wrote a document endorsing “great replacement
theory,” a once-fringe racist idea that became a popular refrain among
media figures such as Tucker Carlson and Laura Ingraham of Fox News
and conservative writer Ann Coulter.

Before the shooting rampage that also left three wounded, the suspect,
Payton S. Gendron, 18, allegedly posted a lengthy document invoking
the idea that White Americans were at risk of being “replaced” by
people of color because of immigration and higher birthrates."

--

Tony Cooper - Orlando Florida

I read and post to this group as a form of entertainment.

[Peter T. Daniels]

On Monday, May 16, 2022 at 12:30:40 PM UTC-4, Athel Cornish-Bowden wrote:

> Richard has expressed scepticism about Tucker Carlson's far-right
> propaganda. He might want to look at this:
>
> https://crooksandliars.com/2022/05/jim-acosta-calls-out-tucker-carlson-name

But he's already said that he won't accept someone else's close
analysis of Carlson's broadcasts, he needs to hear it directly from him.

Would he take Putin's word for it, given that RT rebroadcasts some of
Carlson's statements?

[Richard Heathfield]

On 16/05/2022 5:30 pm, Athel Cornish-Bowden wrote:
> Richard has expressed scepticism about Tucker Carlson's far-right
> propaganda. He might want to look at this:
>
> https://crooksandliars.com/2022/05/jim-acosta-calls-out-tucker-carlson-name

I looked. I saw 48 seconds of this Carlson character. He said a
bunch of stuff about "replacement" that may or may not be true (I
have no opinion on whether it's true). I presume that those
calling him a racist will claim that his claims are not true, and
presumable he thinks that they are true. I don't see that this
evidence moves us forward much if at all until we can establish
whether the claims are true.

I am reminded to some extent of Enoch Powell.

--
Richard Heathfield
Email: rjh at cpax dot org dot uk
"Usenet is a strange place" - dmr 29 July 1999
Sig line 4 vacant - apply within

[J. J. Lodder]

Adam Funk <a24...@ducksburg.com> wrote:

> On 2022-05-16, Athel Cornish-Bowden wrote:
>
> > Richard has expressed scepticism about Tucker Carlson's far-right
> > propaganda. He might want to look at this:
> >
> > https://crooksandliars.com/2022/05/jim-acosta-calls-out-tucker-carlson-name
> >
> > We had a candidate in the recent French election who was pushing the
> > Grand Remplacement theory in France. This was Éric Zemmour, who makes
> > Marine Le Pen look like soft-hearted liberal. Typically, for the far
> > right in France, he's more worried about Muslims from North Africa than
> > he is about black people from sub-Saharan Africa. (His own parents,
> > incidentally, were immigrants from Algeria.)
>
> I see that they were Jewish & moved to France during the Algerian War
> --- does that qualify them as "pieds-noirs"?

Not by the usual definitions of 'pieds noirs'.
(which is limited to people of recent European descent)

AFAIK his ancestors were 'Berber Jews'
who lived there long before the French colonisation.
(often after being expelled from Spain/Portugal)

Jan

[Tony Cooper]

On Mon, 16 May 2022 21:35:18 +0100, Richard Heathfield
<r...@cpax.org.uk> wrote:

>On 16/05/2022 5:30 pm, Athel Cornish-Bowden wrote:
>> Richard has expressed scepticism about Tucker Carlson's far-right
>> propaganda. He might want to look at this:
>>
>> https://crooksandliars.com/2022/05/jim-acosta-calls-out-tucker-carlson-name
>
>I looked. I saw 48 seconds of this Carlson character. He said a
>bunch of stuff about "replacement" that may or may not be true (I
>have no opinion on whether it's true).

I think if you want to comment on something that you should at least
read or listen to what you are commenting on and have some
understanding of the subject.

The subject is the "The Great Replacement Theory".

This is fairly condensed explantion of what that is:

Begin quote: __________________________________________
WHAT IS THE ‘GREAT REPLACEMENT THEORY’?

Simply put, the conspiracy theory says there’s a plot to diminish the
influence of white people.

Believers say this goal is being achieved both through the immigration
of nonwhite people into societies that have largely been dominated by
white people, as well as through simple demographics, with white
people having lower birth rates than other populations.

The conspiracy theory’s more racist adherents believe Jews are behind
the so-called replacement plan: White nationalists marching at a
Charlottesville, Virginia, rally that turned deadly in 2017 chanted
“You will not replace us!” and “Jews will not replace us!”

A more mainstream view in the U.S. baselessly suggests Democrats are
encouraging immigration from Latin America so more like-minded
potential voters replace “traditional” Americans, says Mark Pitcavage,
senior research fellow at the Anti-Defamation League Center on
Extremism.

End quote: __________________________________________

The above is from a news article that is behind a paywall and cannot
be linked to.

If you watch the clips of Tucker Carlson, he says "That's what's
happening, actually. It's true." He goes on about "poor people with
limited education." The rest of his comments are replete with his
trademark facial gyrations and voice emphasis that are used to
buttress his spoken words and that the suggestion that this is a
problem is too ludicrous to consider

Yet, we know from Charlottesville, Pittsburgh, El Paso, and other
instances that people are buying on to the theory and reacting
violently. While there's no claim that the shooter in Buffalo who
killed ten people a few days ago watches Tucker Carlson, the shooter's
published "manifesto" shows that believing in the evil of The Great
Replacement Theory was a motivation to him. The shooter, Payton
Gendron, repeatedly referenced this in his "manifesto".

Carlson is echoing the positions taken in the "Daily Stormer" (a white
supremacist, neo-Nazi, and anti-semetic website) but crafting his
comments to avoid the actual "evidence" you want while communicating
it by generality and innuendo.

You say "Where's the evidence of racism?", but - to me - the better
question is "Does Carlson foment racism?". And, the answer to my
question is a clear "Yes".

>I am reminded to some extent of Enoch Powell.

You might want to look up Theodore G. Bilbo.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theodore_G._Bilbo

He's considered to be the Father of the Replacement Theory in the US..

The only difference between Bilbo and Carlson is that Bilbo didn't
have a television audience and wasn't restricted by Standards &
Practices as Carlson is. (Even though the S&P at Fox News for
commentators sets a very low bar)

[Peter Moylan]

On 17/05/22 06:35, Richard Heathfield wrote:
> On 16/05/2022 5:30 pm, Athel Cornish-Bowden wrote:
>> Richard has expressed scepticism about Tucker Carlson's far-right
>> propaganda. He might want to look at this:
>>
>> https://crooksandliars.com/2022/05/jim-acosta-calls-out-tucker-carlson-name
>>
>>
>
> I looked. I saw 48 seconds of this Carlson character. He said a bunch
> of stuff about "replacement" that may or may not be true (I have no
> opinion on whether it's true). I presume that those calling him a
> racist will claim that his claims are not true, and presumable he
> thinks that they are true. I don't see that this evidence moves us
> forward much if at all until we can establish whether the claims are
> true.
>
> I am reminded to some extent of Enoch Powell.

You've moved the goalposts. The question is not whether his claims are
true, but whether he made the claims.

Or are you suggesting that replacement theory is not racist because
white people have a legitimate fear of being replaced by blacks?

--
Peter Moylan Newcastle, NSW http://www.pmoylan.org

[Peter Moylan]

On 17/05/22 04:20, Tony Cooper wrote:

> I'll link to the article, but it may be paywall-blocked:
>
> https://www.washingtonpost.com/media/2022/05/15/buffalo-suspect-great-replacement-theory-conservative-media/?utm_campaign=
>
> I'll quote the first paragraphs, though:
>
> "The suspect in Saturday’s killing of 10 people at a Buffalo
> supermarket allegedly wrote a document endorsing “great replacement
> theory,” a once-fringe racist idea that became a popular refrain
> among media figures such as Tucker Carlson and Laura Ingraham of Fox
> News and conservative writer Ann Coulter.
>
> Before the shooting rampage that also left three wounded, the
> suspect, Payton S. Gendron, 18, allegedly posted a lengthy document
> invoking the idea that White Americans were at risk of being
> “replaced” by people of color because of immigration and higher
> birthrates."

This is reminiscent of the 1951 short story "The Marching Morons". It's
based on the idea that highly intelligent people don't have as many
children as those of low intelligence. The result, in the story set in
the future, is that the average IQ has dropped to 45 and the burden of
keeping the world running has fallen on the small handful of people
whose IQ is 100 or more.

[Lewis]

Only smart people have smart children and stupid people only have stupid
children. Everyone knows that. Albert Einstein came from a long-line of
super geniuses and was a direct descendant of Fermat and Newton, right?

Right?

Oh, wait.

--
How can you trust a man that wears both a belt and suspenders? Man can't even
trust his own pants.

[Richard Heathfield]

On 17/05/2022 1:36 am, Tony Cooper wrote:
> On Mon, 16 May 2022 21:35:18 +0100, Richard Heathfield
> <r...@cpax.org.uk> wrote:
>
>> On 16/05/2022 5:30 pm, Athel Cornish-Bowden wrote:
>>> Richard has expressed scepticism about Tucker Carlson's far-right
>>> propaganda. He might want to look at this:
>>>
>>> https://crooksandliars.com/2022/05/jim-acosta-calls-out-tucker-carlson-name
>>
>> I looked. I saw 48 seconds of this Carlson character. He said a
>> bunch of stuff about "replacement" that may or may not be true (I
>> have no opinion on whether it's true).
>
> I think if you want to comment on something that you should at least
> read or listen to what you are commenting on and have some
> understanding of the subject.

The "something" on which I have been commenting is racism, and
whether evidence can be produced to show that Tucker Carlson is a
racist.

> The subject is the "The Great Replacement Theory".

No, it isn't. The subject was whether Tucker Carlson was racist,
and I asked for evidence supporting that view. Athel, by
directing this video to me by name, implied that it furthers the
debate in which I was participating. In my view, it doesn't.

> This is fairly condensed explantion of what that is:
>
> Begin quote: __________________________________________
> WHAT IS THE ‘GREAT REPLACEMENT THEORY’?
>
> Simply put, the conspiracy theory says there’s a plot to diminish the
> influence of white people.

By careful use of the term "conspiracy theory" you indicate (a)
that you don't subscribe to the theory, and that (b) people who
do are nuts. Hardly a neutral position, then.

>
> Believers

So it's not even a theory. It's a religion. Don't Americans have
freedom of religion yet?

> If you watch the clips of Tucker Carlson, he says "That's what's
> happening, actually. It's true."

I watched the 48 seconds Athel pointed to. Yes he did say "that's
true", so presumably he believes it. Are you in a position to
demonstrate that it's not true? And this is where I came in.

> He goes on about "poor people with
> limited education."

Most people are poor with limited education. If one is not
allowed to talk about such people, one is forbidden from talking
about most of one's own species.

> The rest of his comments are replete with his
> trademark facial gyrations and voice emphasis that are used to
> buttress his spoken words and that the suggestion that this is a
> problem is too ludicrous to consider

This non-verbal communication has been raised before, but I don't
see it. Maybe it's a culture thing?

> Yet, we know from Charlottesville, Pittsburgh, El Paso, and other
> instances that people are buying on to the theory and reacting
> violently.

These would be poor people with limited education, right? So now
we're allowed to talk about them? Or are we only allowed to talk
about them if we're far left?

(I use "far left" to mean "further left than me", a trick I
learned from the far left, although of course my usage is a
mirror image of theirs.)

[Richard Heathfield]

On 17/05/2022 2:29 am, Peter Moylan wrote:
> On 17/05/22 06:35, Richard Heathfield wrote:
>> On 16/05/2022 5:30 pm, Athel Cornish-Bowden wrote:
>>> Richard has expressed scepticism about Tucker Carlson's far-right
>>> propaganda. He might want to look at this:
>>>
>>> https://crooksandliars.com/2022/05/jim-acosta-calls-out-tucker-carlson-name
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>> I looked. I saw 48 seconds of this Carlson character. He said a
>> bunch
>> of stuff about "replacement" that may or may not be true (I
>> have no
>> opinion on whether it's true). I presume that those calling him a
>> racist will claim that his claims are not true, and presumable he
>> thinks that they are true. I don't see that this evidence moves us
>> forward much if at all until we can establish whether the
>> claims are
>> true.
>>
>> I am reminded to some extent of Enoch Powell.
>
> You've moved the goalposts. The question is not whether his
> claims are
> true, but whether he made the claims.

I don't mean to move the goalposts, but I was under the
impression that the question was whether Tucker Carlson is a racist.

> Or are you suggesting that replacement theory is not racist because
> white people have a legitimate fear of being replaced by blacks?

That's a very packed question. Is such a fear legitimate? Or is
it racist? Would it be a legitimate fear, or a racist fear, when
expressed by native Americans in the 18th century --- i.e. a fear
of being replaced by colonials? I see a lot of question-begging
going on in this thread.

[Richard Heathfield]

On 17/05/2022 2:32 am, Peter Moylan wrote:
> On 17/05/22 04:20, Tony Cooper wrote:
>
>> I'll link to the article, but it may be paywall-blocked:
>>
>> https://www.washingtonpost.com/media/2022/05/15/buffalo-suspect-great-replacement-theory-conservative-media/?utm_campaign=
>>
>>
>>  I'll quote the first paragraphs, though:
>>
>> "The suspect in Saturday’s killing of 10 people at a Buffalo
>> supermarket allegedly wrote a document endorsing “great
>> replacement
>> theory,” a once-fringe racist idea that became a popular refrain
>> among media figures such as Tucker Carlson and Laura Ingraham
>> of Fox
>> News and conservative writer Ann Coulter.
>>
>> Before the shooting rampage that also left three wounded, the
>> suspect, Payton S. Gendron, 18, allegedly posted a lengthy
>> document
>> invoking the idea that White Americans were at risk of being
>> “replaced” by people of color because of immigration and higher
>> birthrates."
>
> This is reminiscent of the 1951 short story "The Marching
> Morons". It's
> based on the idea that highly intelligent people don't have as many
> children as those of low intelligence. The result, in the story
> set in
> the future, is that the average IQ has dropped to 45

In which case, it's been redefined.

> and the
> burden of
> keeping the world running has fallen on the small handful of people
> whose IQ is 100 or more.

Solution: scrap the redefinition. Then you'll have half the
population to fall back on.

I, too, am reminded of a short story, one in which a young black
man is on his way to A Big City to show the Powers That Be a
Wonderful New Invention that will Change The World. On the way to
the railway station, he is attacked by a Bunch of Racist
Arseholes and battered to death. The Wonderful New Invention lies
trampled underfoot and unregarded.

[occam]

On 16/05/2022 22:35, Richard Heathfield wrote:
> I looked. I saw 48 seconds of this Carlson character. He said a bunch of
> stuff about "replacement" that may or may not be true (I have no opinion
> on whether it's true). I presume that those calling him a racist will
> claim that his claims are not true, and presumable he thinks that they
> are true. I don't see that this evidence moves us forward much if at all
> until we can establish whether the claims are true.
>
> I am reminded to some extent of Enoch Powell.

Heh! If I recall well, Enoch was in favour of forced expulsion
('repatriation') of immigrants from the UK, for the sake of cleansing
Britain of non-Brits.

The current policy of Britain to outsource asylum seekers (a euphemism
for 'pushing away') to Rwanda must be seen as a step towards his 50-year
old dream.

Are you saying he was not a racist? Was his becoming an outcast not
merited? Remember, not only did the Conservative party disown him, but
his career as a politician rapidly degenerated into nothingness.


Source:
<https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/apr/14/enoch-powell-rivers-blood-legacy-wolverhampton>

[Adam Funk]

Fair point. He nonetheless seems to have picked up the bad attitudes
that a lot of them had.


--
I've had a few myself, he said,
but I never quit when I'm ahead

[Adam Funk]

I just looked that up & found this:

Barlow derives a solution based on his experience in scamming
people into buying worthless land and knowledge of lemmings' mass
migration into the sea

<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Marching_Morons>

I wonder if the author knew that lemmings don't really do that & it
was part of the gag.


--
Dear Ann [Landers]: if there's an enormous rash of necrophilia that
happens in the next year because of this song, please let me know.
99.9% of the rest of us know it's a funny song! ---Alice Cooper

[Adam Funk]

Whether he was or not, his notorious speech favoured pandering to
racist constituents for political gain.


--
I never met a people who were better at not getting to the
point than the Brits. ---Rich Hall

[Richard Heathfield]

On 17/05/2022 9:58 am, occam wrote:
>
> On 16/05/2022 22:35, Richard Heathfield wrote:
>> I looked. I saw 48 seconds of this Carlson character. He said a bunch of
>> stuff about "replacement" that may or may not be true (I have no opinion
>> on whether it's true). I presume that those calling him a racist will
>> claim that his claims are not true, and presumable he thinks that they
>> are true. I don't see that this evidence moves us forward much if at all
>> until we can establish whether the claims are true.
>>
>> I am reminded to some extent of Enoch Powell.
>
> Heh! If I recall well, Enoch was in favour of forced expulsion

Ah, then you know more about him than I do. What I recall was his
warning that integration isn't as simple as the naive believe,
and that it is folly to sweep the matter under the carpet by
calling 'racist' anyone who dares to discuss the matter.

"Above all, people are disposed to mistake predicting troubles
for causing troubles and even for desiring troubles: "If only,"
they love to think, "if only people wouldn't talk about it, it
probably wouldn't happen.""

> Are you saying [Powell] was not a racist? Was his becoming an outcast not

> merited? Remember, not only did the Conservative party disown him, but
> his career as a politician rapidly degenerated into nothingness.

He dared to discuss uncontrolled immigration. That is more than
enough for many people to condemn him as a racist.

[Peter Moylan]

On 17/05/22 17:27, Richard Heathfield wrote:

> I, too, am reminded of a short story, one in which a young black man
> is on his way to A Big City to show the Powers That Be a Wonderful
> New Invention that will Change The World. On the way to the railway
> station, he is attacked by a Bunch of Racist Arseholes and battered
> to death. The Wonderful New Invention lies trampled underfoot and
> unregarded.

I'm having trouble googling it, but I believe the story is "Mute Milton"
by Harry Harrison. The black man's "nigger radio" was in fact an Arindam
perpetual motion machine, getting its energy from the gravitational
gradient. The invention was lost when he was shot by a cop.

Slight correction, from memory: he was on his way to the bus station,
not the railway station. But such a memory lapse is understandable from
someone in a country where railway stations are much more common than
bus stations.

[Peter Moylan]

On 17/05/22 19:17, Adam Funk wrote:
> On 2022-05-17, Peter Moylan wrote:

>> This is reminiscent of the 1951 short story "The Marching Morons". It's
>> based on the idea that highly intelligent people don't have as many
>> children as those of low intelligence. The result, in the story set in
>> the future, is that the average IQ has dropped to 45 and the burden of
>> keeping the world running has fallen on the small handful of people
>> whose IQ is 100 or more.
>
> I just looked that up & found this:
>
> Barlow derives a solution based on his experience in scamming
> people into buying worthless land and knowledge of lemmings' mass
> migration into the sea
>
> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Marching_Morons>
>
> I wonder if the author knew that lemmings don't really do that & it
> was part of the gag.

We know more about lemmings now, but the image of lemmings throwing
themselves off cliffs is so embedded in the popular culture that we'll
never get rid of it.

[J. J. Lodder]

Kornbluth wasn't really a nice person. (more American fascism in SF)
And a second rate author too.
He needed Pohl as first author to produce something worthwhile.

> I wonder if the author knew that lemmings don't really do that & it
> was part of the gag.

But lemmings really do that, in Hollywoood science,
so in American reality,

Jan

[J. J. Lodder]

Yes, many of those 'colons' were a pampered lot,
used to having servants to order around to do the real work.
When back in France some of them were resentful
at having to do real work themselves, and they turned extreme right.
The South of France is the main power base of Madame Le Pen
with good reason.

Jan

[Richard Heathfield]

On 17/05/2022 11:23 am, Peter Moylan wrote:
> On 17/05/22 17:27, Richard Heathfield wrote:
>
>> I, too, am reminded of a short story, one in which a young
>> black man
>> is on his way to A Big City to show the Powers That Be a Wonderful
>> New Invention that will Change The World. On the way to the
>> railway
>> station, he is attacked by a Bunch of Racist Arseholes and
>> battered
>> to death. The Wonderful New Invention lies trampled underfoot and
>> unregarded.
>
> I'm having trouble googling it, but I believe the story is "Mute
> Milton"
> by Harry Harrison. The black man's "nigger radio" was in fact an
> Arindam
> perpetual motion machine, getting its energy from the gravitational
> gradient. The invention was lost when he was shot by a cop.

That all sounds in keeping with my somewhat faded memory of the
story, which I haven't read for half a century.

> Slight correction, from memory: he was on his way to the bus
> station,
> not the railway station. But such a memory lapse is
> understandable from
> someone in a country where railway stations are much more common
> than
> bus stations.

And where we use calendars, not timetables.

[J. J. Lodder]

Lewis <g.k...@kreme.dont-email.me> wrote:

> In message <t5utv0$232$1...@dont-email.me> Peter Moylan:

Well, we should be able to see that, by IQ inflation.
We are all in the Einstein super-genius class,
by our IQ scores.

Hadn't you noticed?

Jan

[Athel Cornish-Bowden]

On 2022-05-17 10:43:10 +0000, J. J. Lodder said:

> Adam Funk <a24...@ducksburg.com> wrote:
>
>>
>> [ … ]

>>
>> I wonder if the author knew that lemmings don't really do that & it
>> was part of the gag.
>
> But lemmings really do that, in Hollywoood science,
> so in American reality,

Real lemmings don't commit mass suicide, but they do migrate in vast
numbers, and that is probably the origin of the myth. A more
interesting thing about lemmings is their weird system of sex
chromosomes, leading to a population that is 75% female.

[Peter Moylan]

On 17/05/22 21:09, Athel Cornish-Bowden wrote:
> On 2022-05-17 10:43:10 +0000, J. J. Lodder said:
>
>> Adam Funk <a24...@ducksburg.com> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> [ … ]
>
>>>
>>> I wonder if the author knew that lemmings don't really do that &
>>> it was part of the gag.
>>
>> But lemmings really do that, in Hollywoood science, so in American
>> reality,
>
> Real lemmings don't commit mass suicide, but they do migrate in vast
> numbers, and that is probably the origin of the myth. A more
> interesting thing about lemmings is their weird system of sex
> chromosomes, leading to a population that is 75% female.

As I understand it, the migration in large numbers is the reason for the
popular myth. In such crowded conditions, if they run along the edge of
a cliff then some of them are going to fall off the edge, and I believe
that that is what has been observed.

Thanks for the information about the sex chromosomes. I didn't know
that. The first reference I found on the subject suggests that it's more
complicated than I would have guessed.

[J. J. Lodder]

Peter Moylan <pe...@pmoylan.org.invalid> wrote:

> On 17/05/22 21:09, Athel Cornish-Bowden wrote:
> > On 2022-05-17 10:43:10 +0000, J. J. Lodder said:
> >
> >> Adam Funk <a24...@ducksburg.com> wrote:
> >>
> >>>
> >>> [ … ]
> >
> >>>
> >>> I wonder if the author knew that lemmings don't really do that &
> >>> it was part of the gag.
> >>
> >> But lemmings really do that, in Hollywoood science, so in American
> >> reality,
> >
> > Real lemmings don't commit mass suicide, but they do migrate in vast
> > numbers, and that is probably the origin of the myth. A more
> > interesting thing about lemmings is their weird system of sex
> > chromosomes, leading to a population that is 75% female.
>
> As I understand it, the migration in large numbers is the reason for the
> popular myth. In such crowded conditions, if they run along the edge of
> a cliff then some of them are going to fall off the edge, and I believe
> that that is what has been observed.

The origin of the popular myth is a Disney movie.
Disney later admitted to having brought in the lemmings
in crates, and that Disney personel behind the camera
had been throwing the lemmings off some cliff.

When found out, much later, Disney apologised.
The resulting scandal was the cause of all those
'no real animanls were harmed...' disclaimers
on later movies.

What is true is that lemmings have mass migrations,
and that animals do die during them.
(but that is true of many other species)

Jan

[occam]

Richard, he did more than just 'discuss' uncontrolled immigration. He
advocated the forced resettlement of the immigrant population of the UK.
Fortunately the Conservatives were not in government at the time, and
his powerful rhetoric only led to his own demise.

[Richard Heathfield]

Clearly a racist, then, because discussion's quite bad enough. Of
course he suffered from the crippling weakness of being on the
political right. If you're on the left, you get a free pass
(Diane Abbott, Joe Biden etc).

[Tony Cooper]

On Tue, 17 May 2022 08:14:08 +0100, Richard Heathfield

<r...@cpax.org.uk> wrote:

>On 17/05/2022 1:36 am, Tony Cooper wrote:
>> On Mon, 16 May 2022 21:35:18 +0100, Richard Heathfield
>> <r...@cpax.org.uk> wrote:
>>
>>> On 16/05/2022 5:30 pm, Athel Cornish-Bowden wrote:
>>>> Richard has expressed scepticism about Tucker Carlson's far-right
>>>> propaganda. He might want to look at this:
>>>>
>>>> https://crooksandliars.com/2022/05/jim-acosta-calls-out-tucker-carlson-name
>>>
>>> I looked. I saw 48 seconds of this Carlson character. He said a
>>> bunch of stuff about "replacement" that may or may not be true (I
>>> have no opinion on whether it's true).
>>
>> I think if you want to comment on something that you should at least
>> read or listen to what you are commenting on and have some
>> understanding of the subject.
>
>The "something" on which I have been commenting is racism, and
>whether evidence can be produced to show that Tucker Carlson is a
>racist.
>
>> The subject is the "The Great Replacement Theory".
>
>No, it isn't. The subject was whether Tucker Carlson was racist,

That has been a subject, and the video was posted on that subject. The
subject of the Carlson clip in that video was his comments on The
Great Replacement Theory".

>and I asked for evidence supporting that view. Athel, by
>directing this video to me by name, implied that it furthers the
>debate in which I was participating. In my view, it doesn't.

Ah, well, isn't there something about directing a horse that will not
take in what it is directed to?

You are right, of course. Visual evidence that Carlson incites racism
in others with a "bunch of stuff about 'replacement'" isn't evidence
that Carlson himself is a racist. It's just the "looks like a duck",
"walks like a duck" and "quacks like a duck" parts and doesn't prove
the "must be a duck" conclusion.

>> This is fairly condensed explantion of what that is:
>>
>> Begin quote: __________________________________________
>> WHAT IS THE ‘GREAT REPLACEMENT THEORY’?
>>
>> Simply put, the conspiracy theory says there’s a plot to diminish the
>> influence of white people.
>
>By careful use of the term "conspiracy theory" you indicate (a)
>that you don't subscribe to the theory, and that (b) people who
>do are nuts. Hardly a neutral position, then.

What's this? You are taking the position that what I write or say
indicates what I am? Wouldn't want to appy that to Carlson, would
you?

>> Believers
>
>So it's not even a theory. It's a religion. Don't Americans have
>freedom of religion yet?

Though an atheist, I believe you don't know the meanings of "believe".

>
>> If you watch the clips of Tucker Carlson, he says "That's what's
>> happening, actually. It's true."
>

>> He goes on about "poor people with
>> limited education."
>
>Most people are poor with limited education. If one is not
>allowed to talk about such people, one is forbidden from talking
>about most of one's own species.

Oh, he's allowed just as I am allowed to talk about the English having
bad teeth. What some might object to, though, is that by using only
that aspect when discussing the English I could be suggesting that the
English are somehow less worthy because of this.

>
>> The rest of his comments are replete with his
>> trademark facial gyrations and voice emphasis that are used to
>> buttress his spoken words and that the suggestion that this is a
>> problem is too ludicrous to consider
>
>This non-verbal communication has been raised before, but I don't
>see it. Maybe it's a culture thing?

Is it? The bad teeth may be a culture thing, but is myopia also a
culture thing with the English?

[lar3ryca]

Yes, the story is "Mute Milton". It appears in the following collections:

Prime Number
The Best of Harry Harrison
Galactic Dreams
50 in 50

[Adam Funk]

One reason is that they try to migrate across too large a body of
water, then get exhausted & drown partway.

>> Thanks for the information about the sex chromosomes. I didn't know
>> that. The first reference I found on the subject suggests that it's more
>> complicated than I would have guessed.

I didn't know about that.

--
Unix is a user-friendly operating system. It's just very choosy about
its friends.

[Ken Blake]

On Tue, 17 May 2022 11:32:13 +1000, Peter Moylan
<pe...@pmoylan.org.invalid> wrote:

>On 17/05/22 04:20, Tony Cooper wrote:
>
>> I'll link to the article, but it may be paywall-blocked:
>>
>> https://www.washingtonpost.com/media/2022/05/15/buffalo-suspect-great-replacement-theory-conservative-media/?utm_campaign=
>>
>> I'll quote the first paragraphs, though:
>>
>> "The suspect in Saturday’s killing of 10 people at a Buffalo
>> supermarket allegedly wrote a document endorsing “great replacement
>> theory,” a once-fringe racist idea that became a popular refrain
>> among media figures such as Tucker Carlson and Laura Ingraham of Fox
>> News and conservative writer Ann Coulter.
>>
>> Before the shooting rampage that also left three wounded, the
>> suspect, Payton S. Gendron, 18, allegedly posted a lengthy document
>> invoking the idea that White Americans were at risk of being
>> “replaced” by people of color because of immigration and higher
>> birthrates."
>
>This is reminiscent of the 1951 short story "The Marching Morons". It's
>based on the idea that highly intelligent people don't have as many
>children as those of low intelligence. The result, in the story set in
>the future, is that the average IQ has dropped to 45

Not possible. Since, by definition, "IQ" refers to the average, it has
to always be 100.

[Richard Heathfield]

On 17/05/2022 2:46 pm, Tony Cooper wrote:
> On Tue, 17 May 2022 08:14:08 +0100, Richard Heathfield
> <r...@cpax.org.uk> wrote:

<snip>

>> and I asked for evidence supporting that view. Athel, by
>> directing this video to me by name, implied that it furthers the
>> debate in which I was participating. In my view, it doesn't.
>
> Ah, well, isn't there something about directing a horse that will not
> take in what it is directed to?

More question-begging. Okay.

[CDB]

On 5/16/2022 2:20 PM, Tony Cooper wrote:

> Athel Cornish-Bowden <acor...@imm.cnrs.fr> wrote:


>> Richard has expressed scepticism about Tucker Carlson's far-right
>> propaganda. He might want to look at this:

>> https://crooksandliars.com/2022/05/jim-acosta-calls-out-tucker-carlson-name

>>
>>
>>

We had a candidate in the recent French election who was pushing the
>> Grand Remplacement theory in France. This was Éric Zemmour, who
>> makes Marine Le Pen look like soft-hearted liberal. Typically, for
>> the far right in France, he's more worried about Muslims from
>> North Africa than he is about black people from sub-Saharan Africa.
>> (His own parents, incidentally, were immigrants from Algeria.)

>> Fortunately he did rather badly in the election (just under 7%),
>> but who knows what will happen next time; he is young enough for
>> there to be a next time.

>> Not as many people have guns and ammunition in France as in the
>> USA. The drug dealers have their Kalashnikovs, of course, but
>> they're more interested in shooting one another than they are in
>> the Grand Remplacement.

> The "Replacement Theory" is getting a great deal of press in the US
> of late. Today's online _Washington Post_ has an extensive article
> on the subject. The article highlights Tucker Carlson's and Laura
> Ingraham's and Jeanine Pirro's frequent Fox News refrains on the
> subject. (All three are Fox News commentators)

> I'll link to the article, but it may be paywall-blocked:

> https://www.washingtonpost.com/media/2022/05/15/buffalo-suspect-great-replacement-theory-conservative-media/?utm_campaign=

>
>
>
I'll quote the first paragraphs, though:

> "The suspect in Saturday’s killing of 10 people at a Buffalo
> supermarket allegedly wrote a document endorsing “great replacement
> theory,” a once-fringe racist idea that became a popular refrain
> among media figures such as Tucker Carlson and Laura Ingraham of Fox
> News and conservative writer Ann Coulter.

> Before the shooting rampage that also left three wounded, the
> suspect, Payton S. Gendron, 18, allegedly posted a lengthy document
> invoking the idea that White Americans were at risk of being
> “replaced” by people of color because of immigration and higher
> birthrates."

It's understandable that Black spokesums* point to racial hatred and
Replacement fears as the cause of these crimes, but I think they're
wrong. The reason little Gendron committed his murders is that he is a
deranged asshole; others of his kind have attacked women, Hispanics,
East Asians (and Taiwanese specifically), South Asians, Christians,
Muslims,and Gay people: any pretext that appeals to the DA will do. I
hope he pronounces his name ['dZEndr@n].

ObPunctuation: I decided on the fly to give "gay" a capital letter,
because it looked right; but that would also be a good way of
disambiguating its use.
____________________________
* The suffixed "-person" as a replacement for "-man" seems awkward,, and
I have begun thinking about using "-hum" or "-um" instead. It is
"human" with most of the objectionable part removed, and is spelt "hum"
except when (as above) the "h" looks like a part of the preceding
element; but it is always pronounced [@m].

[Peter T. Daniels]

On Tuesday, May 17, 2022 at 3:20:24 AM UTC-4, Richard Heathfield wrote:

> I don't mean to move the goalposts, but I was under the
> impression that the question was whether Tucker Carlson is a racist.

STOP REPEATING THAT LIE, AND READ THE FUCKING HEADER OF THE
OTHER THREAD.

[CDB]

On 5/17/2022 9:46 AM, Tony Cooper wrote:
> Richard Heathfield <r...@cpax.org.uk> wrote:
>> Tony Cooper wrote:

[der ewige Carlson]

>>> He goes on about "poor people with limited education."

>> Most people are poor with limited education. If one is not allowed
>> to talk about such people, one is forbidden from talking about
>> most of one's own species.

> Oh, he's allowed just as I am allowed to talk about the English
> having bad teeth. What some might object to, though, is that by
> using only that aspect when discussing the English I could be
> suggesting that the English are somehow less worthy because of this.

>>> The rest of his comments are replete with his trademark facial
>>> gyrations and voice emphasis that are used to buttress his
>>> spoken words and that the suggestion that this is a problem is
>>> too ludicrous to consider

>> This non-verbal communication has been raised before, but I don't
>> see it. Maybe it's a culture thing?

> Is it? The bad teeth may be a culture thing,

Englishums or Kornbluths. WP says he never brushed. I say that that is
probably what gve him his fatal heart attack when he was in his thirties.

[Jerry Friedman]

On Tuesday, May 17, 2022 at 10:04:44 AM UTC-6, CDB wrote:
> On 5/16/2022 2:20 PM, Tony Cooper wrote:

...

> > The "Replacement Theory" is getting a great deal of press in the US
> > of late. Today's online _Washington Post_ has an extensive article
> > on the subject. The article highlights Tucker Carlson's and Laura
> > Ingraham's and Jeanine Pirro's frequent Fox News refrains on the
> > subject. (All three are Fox News commentators)
> > I'll link to the article, but it may be paywall-blocked:
>
> > https://www.washingtonpost.com/media/2022/05/15/buffalo-suspect-great-replacement-theory-conservative-media/?utm_campaign=
>
> >
> >
> >
> I'll quote the first paragraphs, though:
>
> > "The suspect in Saturday’s killing of 10 people at a Buffalo
> > supermarket allegedly wrote a document endorsing “great replacement
> > theory,” a once-fringe racist idea that became a popular refrain
> > among media figures such as Tucker Carlson and Laura Ingraham of Fox
> > News and conservative writer Ann Coulter.
>
> > Before the shooting rampage that also left three wounded, the
> > suspect, Payton S. Gendron, 18, allegedly posted a lengthy document
> > invoking the idea that White Americans were at risk of being
> > “replaced” by people of color because of immigration and higher
> > birthrates."

> It's understandable that Black spokesums* point to racial hatred and
> Replacement fears as the cause of these crimes, but I think they're
> wrong. The reason little Gendron committed his murders is that he is a
> deranged asshole;

I suggest rephrasing that as "The alleged reason he allegedly committed
the alleged murders is that he's allegedly an allegedly deranged alleged
asshole." Or something along those lines; I'm not fussy.

> others of his kind have attacked women, Hispanics,
> East Asians (and Taiwanese specifically), South Asians, Christians,
> Muslims,and Gay people: any pretext that appeals to the DA will do.

Most of those are examples of racial hatred.

I believe there are pretexts that are more often combined with gun-
nuttery and violent language in my country at present, which may well help
push derangement to this particular extreme.

> I hope he pronounces his name ['dZEndr@n].

OK, why? At least, though, if he does, you won't be misgendroning him.

> ObPunctuation: I decided on the fly to give "gay" a capital letter,
> because it looked right; but that would also be a good way of
> disambiguating its use.

Capital "Black" is back in style, so it could happen.

> ____________________________
> * The suffixed "-person" as a replacement for "-man" seems awkward,, and
> I have begun thinking about using "-hum" or "-um" instead. It is
> "human" with most of the objectionable part removed, and is spelt "hum"
> except when (as above) the "h" looks like a part of the preceding
> element; but it is always pronounced [@m].

The journalistic "spox" is probably a more likely candidate.

--
Jerry Friedman

[Tony Cooper]

On Tue, 17 May 2022 12:04:35 -0400, CDB <belle...@gmail.com> wrote:

>> Before the shooting rampage that also left three wounded, the
>> suspect, Payton S. Gendron, 18, allegedly posted a lengthy document
>> invoking the idea that White Americans were at risk of being
>> “replaced” by people of color because of immigration and higher
>> birthrates."
>
>It's understandable that Black spokesums* point to racial hatred and
>Replacement fears as the cause of these crimes, but I think they're
>wrong. The reason little Gendron committed his murders is that he is a
>deranged asshole;

Can't both be the reason? Can't it be said that he's a deranged
asshole who fixated on the Replacement Theory as the core of his
anger?

A deranged asshole without some theory of who the problem is, is just
a harmless deranged asshole. Once that deranged asshole figures out
who the problem is, then he becomes a deranged asshole that shoots
people.

This particular deranged asshole determined that the problem is Black
people, so he shot 11 people including 9 in his target group.

> others of his kind have attacked women, Hispanics,
>East Asians (and Taiwanese specifically), South Asians, Christians,
>Muslims,and Gay people: any pretext that appeals to the DA will do. I
>hope he pronounces his name ['dZEndr@n].
>

There are probably many other deranged assholes who are still
harmless, but on the brink of deciding who their target group will be.

[Tony Cooper]

On Tue, 17 May 2022 08:20:19 +0100, Richard Heathfield
<r...@cpax.org.uk> wrote:


>I don't mean to move the goalposts, but I was under the
>impression that the question was whether Tucker Carlson is a racist.
>

No, the question is whether or not there is "evidence" that Tucker
Carlson is a racist, and - more specifically - if the evidence is
sufficient to convince you.

[Rich Ulrich]

On Tue, 17 May 2022 08:20:19 +0100, Richard Heathfield
<r...@cpax.org.uk> wrote:

>On 17/05/2022 2:29 am, Peter Moylan wrote:
>> On 17/05/22 06:35, Richard Heathfield wrote:

>>> On 16/05/2022 5:30 pm, Athel Cornish-Bowden wrote:
>>>> Richard has expressed scepticism about Tucker Carlson's far-right
>>>> propaganda. He might want to look at this:
>>>>
>>>> https://crooksandliars.com/2022/05/jim-acosta-calls-out-tucker-carlson-name
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>

>>> I looked. I saw 48 seconds of this Carlson character. He said a
>>> bunch
>>> of stuff about "replacement" that may or may not be true (I
>>> have no

>>> opinion on whether it's true). I presume that those calling him a
>>> racist will claim that his claims are not true, and presumable he
>>> thinks that they are true. I don't see that this evidence moves us
>>> forward much if at all until we can establish whether the
>>> claims are
>>> true.
>>>
>>> I am reminded to some extent of Enoch Powell.
>>

>> You've moved the goalposts. The question is not whether his
>> claims are
>> true, but whether he made the claims.

>
>I don't mean to move the goalposts, but I was under the
>impression that the question was whether Tucker Carlson is a racist.
>

>> Or are you suggesting that replacement theory is not racist because
>> white people have a legitimate fear of being replaced by blacks?
>
>That's a very packed question. Is such a fear legitimate? Or is
>it racist? Would it be a legitimate fear, or a racist fear, when
>expressed by native Americans in the 18th century --- i.e. a fear
>of being replaced by colonials? I see a lot of question-begging
>going on in this thread.

This seems very similar to what I resolved (to my own satisfaction)
when considering whether Donald Trump is racist.

A phrase he (and his son) have used is, "not a racist bone" in
his body. Essence. A Black icon, a Congressman who died
a couple of years ago, observed that Trump often had said and
done many racist things, all his life. Behaviors. I think that
literary theory talks about what is incidental or accidental to
a character as the contrast to what is essential.

I concluded that Trump is a solid, clinical case of narcissism,
probably rooted in a brain mis-wired from birth (the way
people discuss autism). His privileged, "entitled" upbringing
shielded him from the worst consequences -- his "incorrigible
delinquency" delivered him to a military academy at age 13,
not to an ordinary hell-hole for juvenile delilnquents.

He does not share a common moral universe with the rest of us.
He DOES honor his own checklist of behaviors that too many
other people have agreed are too blatant. He seldom modifies
that list.

His version of morality requires that he strike back viciously, in
words or otherwise, at anyone inferior who offends him; and
almost anyone who is not rich or a source of possible favors is
"inferior."

When he strikes back, he uses the resources available, verbal and
other. It often will happen that his words or actions will be racist
or sexist or other -ist, because those ways of being vicious are
what make up our common vocabulary.

So, he does not have a specific dislike, etc., for Blacks; he is
mean and nasty and vicious without regard to race, color or
creed, so long as it achieves something self-aggrandizing. He
is a genius at titrating insults and assaults. Praising racists
personally while condemning acts of violence seems to be a
successful stragety.


Tucker Carlson: In the clips I have seen in the last few days,
his target of hate is DEMOCRATS. The Dems are recruiting
11 million foreigners as "replacements" who will "obediently"
(he used that word in a half-dozen different clips) vote for
Democrats. This rant seems to ignore the 10 or 20 year waiting
period before most immigrants are apt to be eligible to vote,
or the privacy of the voting booth. But Donald Trump has
introduced that irrationality throughout his term as President,
as he flipped from one excuse after another to explain why
a "real" count would have showed that he did not lose
California by millions of votes in 2016.

So, from what I saw, it looked like Tucker Carlson is riding
a racist hobby-horse to make another point. I don't know
what it takes to show that a person is /essentially/ a racist ...
or if that is a "thing" can be demonstrated about someone
who disclaims it. I did see Trump's buddy, (pardoned felon)
Steve Bannon, in a clip at a Supremacist convention where
Bannon encouraged the crowd to reclaim the term, to brag
of being racist.

--
Rich Ulrich

[Richard Heathfield]

On 17/05/2022 5:40 pm, Tony Cooper wrote:
> On Tue, 17 May 2022 08:20:19 +0100, Richard Heathfield
> <r...@cpax.org.uk> wrote:
>
>
>> I don't mean to move the goalposts, but I was under the
>> impression that the question was whether Tucker Carlson is a racist.
>>
>
> No, the question is whether or not there is "evidence" that Tucker
> Carlson is a racist,

Clearly no doubt in your mind, then.

> more specifically - if the evidence is
> sufficient to convince you.

If ever it is, the question will be whether Tucker Carlson is a
racist and the answer will be 'yes', but until and unless we
reach that point, the answer is 'insufficient evidence has been
presented'.

The trouble is that we've reached the point where "look at the
way his eye twitches" is considered evidence that the man is a
racist, and that those who remain unconvinced by such "nonsense"
are considered to be indulging in sophistry, since it is clearly
self-evident that a white bloke in a sharp suit must be a racist
if he has a TV show and looks at the camera in a funny way.

It is truly pathetic.

[Richard Heathfield]

In my view your reply (cited in full above) is the most
intelligent contribution to this thread so far.

[bruce bowser]

On Tuesday, May 17, 2022 at 12:40:41 PM UTC-4, Tony Cooper wrote:
> On Tue, 17 May 2022 08:20:19 +0100, Richard Heathfield
> <r...@cpax.org.uk> wrote:
>
>
> >I don't mean to move the goalposts, but I was under the
> >impression that the question was whether Tucker Carlson is a racist.
> >
> No, the question is whether or not there is "evidence" that Tucker
> Carlson is a racist, and - more specifically - if the evidence is
> sufficient to convince you.

The point is, are his followers encouraged to be even more racist every time they hear him.

[Lewis]

In message <3r5clix...@news.ducksburg.com> Adam Funk <a24...@ducksburg.com> wrote:

> On 2022-05-17, Peter Moylan wrote:

>> On 17/05/22 04:20, Tony Cooper wrote:
>>

>>> I'll link to the article, but it may be paywall-blocked:
>>>
>>> https://www.washingtonpost.com/media/2022/05/15/buffalo-suspect-great-replacement-theory-conservative-media/?utm_campaign=
>>>
>>> I'll quote the first paragraphs, though:
>>>
>>> "The suspect in Saturday’s killing of 10 people at a Buffalo
>>> supermarket allegedly wrote a document endorsing “great replacement
>>> theory,” a once-fringe racist idea that became a popular refrain
>>> among media figures such as Tucker Carlson and Laura Ingraham of Fox
>>> News and conservative writer Ann Coulter.
>>>

>>> Before the shooting rampage that also left three wounded, the
>>> suspect, Payton S. Gendron, 18, allegedly posted a lengthy document
>>> invoking the idea that White Americans were at risk of being
>>> “replaced” by people of color because of immigration and higher
>>> birthrates."
>>

>> This is reminiscent of the 1951 short story "The Marching Morons". It's
>> based on the idea that highly intelligent people don't have as many
>> children as those of low intelligence. The result, in the story set in

>> the future, is that the average IQ has dropped to 45 and the burden of

>> keeping the world running has fallen on the small handful of people
>> whose IQ is 100 or more.

> I just looked that up & found this:

> Barlow derives a solution based on his experience in scamming
> people into buying worthless land and knowledge of lemmings' mass
> migration into the sea
>
> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Marching_Morons>

> I wonder if the author knew that lemmings don't really do that & it
> was part of the gag.

Part of the gag?

I think you need to look up the whole lemmings thing.

This is a start:

<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lemming#Misconceptions>

--
The reason that we don't have "bear-proof" garbage cans in the park
is that there is a significant overlap in intelligence between
the smartest bears and the dumbest humans.

[Lewis]

In message <3n678h9ovvb3bbilo...@4ax.com> Tony Cooper <tonyco...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Ah, well, isn't there something about directing a horse that will not
> take in what it is directed to?

He's going to defend the racists and the xenophobes every time.

> You are right, of course. Visual evidence that Carlson incites racism
> in others with a "bunch of stuff about 'replacement'" isn't evidence
> that Carlson himself is a racist. It's just the "looks like a duck",
> "walks like a duck" and "quacks like a duck" parts and doesn't prove
> the "must be a duck" conclusion.

This is how RH argues he himself is not a racists, despite espousing and
defending racist positions.

> What's this? You are taking the position that what I write or say
> indicates what I am? Wouldn't want to appy that to Carlson, would
> you?

Not to Fucker Carlson and not to himself either.

It it talks like a racist and defends racists and wants the 'freedom' to
be racist, it's a racists.

best plan is to walk away.

--
"Remember -- that which does not kill us can only make us stronger."
"And that which *does* kill us leaves us *dead*!"

[Lewis]

In message <88i78hhpi6tjvo9pj...@4ax.com> Tony Cooper <tonyco...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Tue, 17 May 2022 12:04:35 -0400, CDB <belle...@gmail.com> wrote:

>>> Before the shooting rampage that also left three wounded, the
>>> suspect, Payton S. Gendron, 18, allegedly posted a lengthy document
>>> invoking the idea that White Americans were at risk of being
>>> “replaced” by people of color because of immigration and higher
>>> birthrates."
>>
>>It's understandable that Black spokesums* point to racial hatred and
>>Replacement fears as the cause of these crimes, but I think they're
>>wrong. The reason little Gendron committed his murders is that he is a
>>deranged asshole;

> Can't both be the reason? Can't it be said that he's a deranged
> asshole who fixated on the Replacement Theory as the core of his
> anger?

That is certainly the case, and that fear and anger was reinforced over
and over by people like, and primarily in this case, Fucker Carlson
preaching racism and hatred, something he's been doing for a long time
along with the rest of the cast of Fox News, liars and grifters, one and
all.

> A deranged asshole without some theory of who the problem is, is just
> a harmless deranged asshole. Once that deranged asshole figures out
> who the problem is, then he becomes a deranged asshole that shoots
> people.

exactly.

> This particular deranged asshole determined that the problem is Black
> people, so he shot 11 people including 9 in his target group.

No no, he was told that the problem was the black people were on a
secret mission to replace all the white people with black people.

A theory so astonishingly stupid it really is a wonder that anyone is
stupid enough to believe it, but it is impossible to plumb the depths of
human stupidity when it comes to racism and hatred (and batshit crazy
conspiracy theories).

>> others of his kind have attacked women, Hispanics,
>>East Asians (and Taiwanese specifically), South Asians, Christians,
>>Muslims,and Gay people: any pretext that appeals to the DA will do. I
>>hope he pronounces his name ['dZEndr@n].

> There are probably many other deranged assholes who are still
> harmless, but on the brink of deciding who their target group will be.

There's a new mass shooting everyday, and the problem continues to get
worse and worse thanks to the Russian funded GOP and the Russian-funded
NRA. There were *FIVE* yesterday, and over 200 this year.

<https://www.gunviolencearchive.org/reports/mass-shooting>

Um.. day-before-yesterday,

--
To steal ideas from one person is plagiarism. To steal from many
is research.

[lar3ryca]

It sounds like you've been listening to CTV news from Canada. I don't
know if it's the entire national news team, or just the illiterates in
the Regina outlet that do it, but they have a habit of misusing alleged.

"The robber fled the alleged crime scene in an alleged pickup truck."

Welcome back, Jerry.

--
The past tense of William Shakespeare is WouldIwas Shookspeared.

[bil...@shaw.ca]

On Tuesday, May 17, 2022 at 3:26:14 AM UTC-7, Peter Moylan wrote:

> On 17/05/22 19:17, Adam Funk wrote:
> > On 2022-05-17, Peter Moylan wrote:
>
> >> This is reminiscent of the 1951 short story "The Marching Morons". It's
> >> based on the idea that highly intelligent people don't have as many
> >> children as those of low intelligence. The result, in the story set in
> >> the future, is that the average IQ has dropped to 45 and the burden of
> >> keeping the world running has fallen on the small handful of people
> >> whose IQ is 100 or more.
> >
> > I just looked that up & found this:
> >
> > Barlow derives a solution based on his experience in scamming
> > people into buying worthless land and knowledge of lemmings' mass
> > migration into the sea
> >
> > <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Marching_Morons>
> >
> > I wonder if the author knew that lemmings don't really do that & it
> > was part of the gag.

> We know more about lemmings now, but the image of lemmings throwing
> themselves off cliffs is so embedded in the popular culture that we'll
> never get rid of it.

We're almost rid of it now, actually. Your mention in the above post was the first
I've encountered in at least a decade. And considering that the main thrust
behind the myth for the last half century or so was a staged scene -- i.e.,
it didn't actually happen -- in a 1958 Walt Disney movie, it has little or no traction
here in the 21st century.

bill, cow-tipping, anyone?

[J. J. Lodder]

Of course not. When a test is invented it has to be calibrated,
by setting the average -for a particular sample- to 100.

There is no guarantee that the average for other samples
must be 100 too, (and in fact it usually will not be)
If it drifts too far it may be recalibrated,
(see Flynn)

This is all part of the inherently unscientific aspect
of the whole thing.
What would you think of physicists who tell you
that they have to recalibrate the the speed of light every other year?

Jan

[Richard Heathfield]

On 17/05/2022 8:42 pm, lar3ryca wrote:
> "The robber fled the alleged crime scene in an alleged pickup truck."

Allegedly.

[J. J. Lodder]

You must have seen few Brexit cartoons,

Jan

[Jerry Friedman]

On Tuesday, May 17, 2022 at 1:42:16 PM UTC-6, lar3ryca wrote:
> On 2022-05-17 10:28, Jerry Friedman wrote:
> > On Tuesday, May 17, 2022 at 10:04:44 AM UTC-6, CDB wrote:

...

> >> It's understandable that Black spokesums* point to racial hatred and
> >> Replacement fears as the cause of these crimes, but I think they're
> >> wrong. The reason little Gendron committed his murders is that he is a
> >> deranged asshole;
> >
> > I suggest rephrasing that as "The alleged reason he allegedly committed
> > the alleged murders is that he's allegedly an allegedly deranged alleged
> > asshole." Or something along those lines; I'm not fussy.

> It sounds like you've been listening to CTV news from Canada. I don't
> know if it's the entire national news team, or just the illiterates in
> the Regina outlet that do it, but they have a habit of misusing alleged.
>
> "The robber fled the alleged crime scene in an alleged pickup truck."
>
> Welcome back, Jerry.

Thank you.

--
Jerry Friedman

[lar3ryca]

On 2022-05-17 11:28, Lewis wrote:
> In message <3n678h9ovvb3bbilo...@4ax.com> Tony Cooper <tonyco...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Ah, well, isn't there something about directing a horse that will not
>> take in what it is directed to?
>
> He's going to defend the racists and the xenophobes every time.
>
>> You are right, of course. Visual evidence that Carlson incites racism
>> in others with a "bunch of stuff about 'replacement'" isn't evidence
>> that Carlson himself is a racist. It's just the "looks like a duck",
>> "walks like a duck" and "quacks like a duck" parts and doesn't prove
>> the "must be a duck" conclusion.
>
> This is how RH argues he himself is not a racists, despite espousing and
> defending racist positions.

I would ask for evidence of that, but I figure it's pointless to ask
that of someone who sees racists everywhere he looks.

[Tony Cooper]

It's often part of an editorial cartoonist's output:

https://theweek.com/cartoons/938269/editorial-cartoon-covid-masks-lemmings-sheep
https://www.wctrib.com/opinion/cartoons/editorial-cartoon-for-april-20-2022
and one for the Canadians:
https://www.thestar.com/opinion/editorial_cartoon/2021/09/14/theo-moudakis-the-lemmings.html

--

Tony Cooper - Orlando Florida

I read and post to this group as a form of entertainment.

[Peter T. Daniels]

On Tuesday, May 17, 2022 at 12:40:41 PM UTC-4, Tony Cooper wrote:

> On Tue, 17 May 2022 08:20:19 +0100, Richard Heathfield
> <r...@cpax.org.uk> wrote:
>
>
> >I don't mean to move the goalposts, but I was under the
> >impression that the question was whether Tucker Carlson is a racist.
> >
> No, the question is whether or not there is "evidence" that Tucker
> Carlson is a racist, and - more specifically - if the evidence is
> sufficient to convince you.

I don't suppose Heathfield is open to listening to an account that
lasts seven and a half minutes (gasp!) that puts Carlson -- with
audio quotes -- in the context of the racist "replacement theory"
that T**** was espousing in mid 2016, but others here might find
it helpful.

https://www.npr.org/2022/05/17/1099587491/what-the-shooting-in-buffalo-has-to-do-with-fox-news-host-tucker-carlson

Probably they'll have a transcript up later on.

In particular -- the shooter's alleged manifesto (it may not have
been proven yet that he wrote it) does not mention Carlson.

[Richard Heathfield]

On 17/05/2022 9:18 pm, lar3ryca wrote:
> On 2022-05-17 11:28, Lewis wrote:
>> In message <3n678h9ovvb3bbilo...@4ax.com> Tony
>> Cooper <tonyco...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Ah, well, isn't there something about directing a horse that
>>> will not
>>> take in what it is directed to?
>>
>> He's going to defend the racists and the xenophobes every time.
>>
>>> You are right, of course.  Visual evidence that Carlson
>>> incites racism
>>> in others with a "bunch of stuff about 'replacement'" isn't
>>> evidence
>>> that Carlson himself is a racist.  It's just the "looks like a
>>> duck",
>>> "walks like a duck" and "quacks like a duck" parts and doesn't
>>> prove
>>> the "must be a duck" conclusion.
>>
>> This is how RH argues he himself is not a racists, despite
>> espousing and
>> defending racist positions.
>
> I would ask for evidence of that, but I figure it's pointless to
> ask that of someone who sees racists everywhere he looks.

It's classic wokeism. If you do not agree 100% with my world
view, you are by definition a racist, misogynist, thisphobe,
thatphobe and theotherphobe, and death is too good for you.

[Sam Plusnet]

On 17-May-22 20:45, bil...@shaw.ca wrote:

> bill, cow-tipping, anyone?

If you tip your waiter for a glass of milk, I'm not sure they share the
tips that widely.

--
Sam Plusnet

[Peter Moylan]

We have a federal election coming up this Saturday. I'm shocked to see
that there are three different anti-vaccination parties competing, one
of them being the best-financed party in our history.

--
Peter Moylan Newcastle, NSW http://www.pmoylan.org

[Peter Moylan]

On 18/05/22 01:26, Ken Blake wrote:
> On Tue, 17 May 2022 11:32:13 +1000, Peter Moylan

> <pe...@pmoylan.org.invalid> wrote:

>> This is reminiscent of the 1951 short story "The Marching Morons".
>> It's based on the idea that highly intelligent people don't have as
>> many children as those of low intelligence. The result, in the
>> story set in the future, is that the average IQ has dropped to 45
>

> Not possible. Since, by definition, "IQ" refers to the average, it
> has to always be 100.

That's the theory, but at best recalibration happens only when a new
test is invented.

[Arindam Banerjee]

On Tuesday, 17 May 2022 at 11:32:20 UTC+10, Peter Moylan wrote:
> On 17/05/22 04:20, Tony Cooper wrote:
>
> > I'll link to the article, but it may be paywall-blocked:
> >
> > https://www.washingtonpost.com/media/2022/05/15/buffalo-suspect-great-replacement-theory-conservative-media/?utm_campaign=
> >
> > I'll quote the first paragraphs, though:
> >
> > "The suspect in Saturday’s killing of 10 people at a Buffalo
> > supermarket allegedly wrote a document endorsing “great replacement
> > theory,” a once-fringe racist idea that became a popular refrain
> > among media figures such as Tucker Carlson and Laura Ingraham of Fox
> > News and conservative writer Ann Coulter.
> >
> > Before the shooting rampage that also left three wounded, the
> > suspect, Payton S. Gendron, 18, allegedly posted a lengthy document
> > invoking the idea that White Americans were at risk of being
> > “replaced” by people of color because of immigration and higher
> > birthrates."

> This is reminiscent of the 1951 short story "The Marching Morons". It's
> based on the idea that highly intelligent people don't have as many
> children as those of low intelligence. The result, in the story set in

> the future, is that the average IQ has dropped to 45 and the burden of
> keeping the world running has fallen on the small handful of people
> whose IQ is 100 or more.

Modern USA that, as we see, after 71 years.
Rest of the world is not far behind.

[Arindam Banerjee]

On Tuesday, 17 May 2022 at 20:23:15 UTC+10, Peter Moylan wrote:
> On 17/05/22 17:27, Richard Heathfield wrote:
>
> > I, too, am reminded of a short story, one in which a young black man
> > is on his way to A Big City to show the Powers That Be a Wonderful
> > New Invention that will Change The World. On the way to the railway
> > station, he is attacked by a Bunch of Racist Arseholes and battered
> > to death. The Wonderful New Invention lies trampled underfoot and
> > unregarded.
> I'm having trouble googling it, but I believe the story is "Mute Milton"
> by Harry Harrison. The black man's "nigger radio" was in fact an Arindam
> perpetual motion machine, getting its energy from the gravitational
> gradient. The invention was lost when he was shot by a cop.

No worries, mate, he was re-inventing the wheel of Bhaskaracharya.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=50Aag0J0Qe4&t=312s

Which even you can do with a bicycle wheel and soda bottles.
It does prove my new physics.

Incidentally you can buy free energy motors on Alibaba.
They use angled pms using Perendev simulation.



>
> Slight correction, from memory: he was on his way to the bus station,
> not the railway station. But such a memory lapse is understandable from
> someone in a country where railway stations are much more common than
> bus stations.
> --

[Kerr-Mudd, John]

On Tue, 17 May 2022 20:40:45 -0700 (PDT)
Arindam Banerjee <banerjee...@gmail.com> wrote:

> On Tuesday, 17 May 2022 at 20:23:15 UTC+10, Peter Moylan wrote:
> > On 17/05/22 17:27, Richard Heathfield wrote:
> >
> > > I, too, am reminded of a short story, one in which a young black man
> > > is on his way to A Big City to show the Powers That Be a Wonderful
> > > New Invention that will Change The World. On the way to the railway
> > > station, he is attacked by a Bunch of Racist Arseholes and battered
> > > to death. The Wonderful New Invention lies trampled underfoot and
> > > unregarded.
> > I'm having trouble googling it, but I believe the story is "Mute Milton"
> > by Harry Harrison. The black man's "nigger radio" was in fact an Arindam
> > perpetual motion machine, getting its energy from the gravitational
> > gradient. The invention was lost when he was shot by a cop.
>
> No worries, mate, he was re-inventing the wheel of Bhaskaracharya.
>

I tried elsewhere:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bh%C4%81skara%27s_wheel
(long discredited)

> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=50Aag0J0Qe4&t=312s
>
> Which even you can do with a bicycle wheel and soda bottles.
> It does prove my new physics.
>
> Incidentally you can buy free energy motors on Alibaba.
> They use angled pms using Perendev simulation.
>

There must be about 2 born every minute by now.

> >
> > Slight correction, from memory: he was on his way to the bus station,
> > not the railway station. But such a memory lapse is understandable from
> > someone in a country where railway stations are much more common than
> > bus stations.
> > --
> > Peter Moylan Newcastle, NSW http://www.pmoylan.org

--
Bah, and indeed Humbug.

[Athel Cornish-Bowden]

Any theory that gives Donald J. Trump an IQ of 156 needs to be treated
with scepticism.

--
Athel -- French and British, living mainly in England until 1987.

[Arindam Banerjee]

On Wednesday, 18 May 2022 at 18:29:17 UTC+10, Kerr-Mudd, John wrote:
> On Tue, 17 May 2022 20:40:45 -0700 (PDT)
> Arindam Banerjee <banerjee...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > On Tuesday, 17 May 2022 at 20:23:15 UTC+10, Peter Moylan wrote:
> > > On 17/05/22 17:27, Richard Heathfield wrote:

> > > t

> > > > I, too, am reminded of a short story, one in which a young black man
> > > > is on his way to A Big City to show the Powers That Be a Wonderful
> > > > New Invention that will Change The World. On the way to the railway
> > > > station, he is attacked by a Bunch of Racist Arseholes and battered
> > > > to death. The Wonderful New Invention lies trampled underfoot and
> > > > unregarded.
> > > I'm having trouble googling it, but I believe the story is "Mute Milton"
> > > by Harry Harrison. The black man's "nigger radio" was in fact an Arindam
> > > perpetual motion machine, getting its energy from the gravitational
> > > gradient. The invention was lost when he was shot by a cop.
> >
> > No worries, mate, he was re-inventing the wheel of Bhaskaracharya.
> >
> I tried elsewhere:
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bh%C4%81skara%27s_wheel
> (long discredited)

Wow, a wiki worshipper, what a surprise.
> > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=50Aag0J0Qe4&t=312s
Facts do not concern the wiki quoting moron.
Wiki was created for small, lazy minds, what.

> >
> > Which even you can do with a bicycle wheel and soda bottles.
> > It does prove my new physics.
> >
> > Incidentally you can buy free energy motors on Alibaba.
> > They use angled pms using Perendev simulation.
> >
> There must be about 2 born every minute by now.

No fool like a deliberately blind fool.
The Chinese are practical.

[Arindam Banerjee]

There are those with just enough wits to be jealous.

[Adam Funk]

Fair point, mass migration into bodies of water does happen (as I
mentioned elsewhere), just not off a cliff.

> This is a start:
>
><https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lemming#Misconceptions>
>


--

We do not debug. Our software does not coddle the weak. Bugs
are good for building character in the user.
---Klingon Programmer's Guide

[Adam Funk]

Science says no.

<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cow_tipping#Scientific_study>

> It's often part of an editorial cartoonist's output:
>
> https://theweek.com/cartoons/938269/editorial-cartoon-covid-masks-lemmings-sheep
> https://www.wctrib.com/opinion/cartoons/editorial-cartoon-for-april-20-2022
> and one for the Canadians:
> https://www.thestar.com/opinion/editorial_cartoon/2021/09/14/theo-moudakis-the-lemmings.html

Those are all very good.

--
All crime is due to incorrect breathing.
---Sir Henry Rawlinson

[Lewis]

Just because TraitorTrump says he's smart does not mean anyone else says
so. There is zero chance he has an IQ of 120, much less higher.

--
I wish I was Keeley three of four times a day.

[CDB]

On 5/17/2022 12:28 PM, Jerry Friedman wrote:

> CDB wrote:
>> Tony Cooper wrote:
> ...

>>> The "Replacement Theory" is getting a great deal of press in the
>>> US of late. Today's online _Washington Post_ has an extensive
>>> article on the subject. The article highlights Tucker Carlson's
>>> and Laura Ingraham's and Jeanine Pirro's frequent Fox News
>>> refrains on the subject. (All three are Fox News commentators)

>>> I'll link to the article, but it may be paywall-blocked:

>>> https://www.washingtonpost.com/media/2022/05/15/buffalo-suspect-great-replacement-theory-conservative-media/?utm_campaign=

>>>
>>>
I'll quote the first paragraphs, though:

>>> "The suspect in Saturday’s killing of 10 people at a Buffalo
>>> supermarket allegedly wrote a document endorsing “great
>>> replacement theory,” a once-fringe racist idea that became a
>>> popular refrain among media figures such as Tucker Carlson and
>>> Laura Ingraham of Fox News and conservative writer Ann Coulter.

>>> Before the shooting rampage that also left three wounded, the
>>> suspect, Payton S. Gendron, 18, allegedly posted a lengthy
>>> document invoking the idea that White Americans were at risk of
>>> being “replaced” by people of color because of immigration and
>>> higher birthrates."

>> It's understandable that Black spokesums* point to racial hatred
>> and Replacement fears as the cause of these crimes, but I think
>> they're wrong. The reason little Gendron committed his murders is
>> that he is a deranged asshole;

> I suggest rephrasing that as "The alleged reason he allegedly
> committed the alleged murders is that he's allegedly an allegedly
> deranged alleged asshole." Or something along those lines; I'm not
> fussy.

"I allegedly think" too, why not.

>> others of his kind have attacked women, Hispanics, East Asians (and
>> Taiwanese specifically), South Asians, Christians, Muslims,and Gay
>> people: any pretext that appeals to the DA will do.

> Most of those are examples of racial hatred.

But with some notable exceptions. I think there is quite a lot of
racial dislike about, at a level insufficient to persuade non-DAs to
murder their fellows.

> I believe there are pretexts that are more often combined with gun-
> nuttery and violent language in my country at present, which may well
> help push derangement to this particular extreme.

>> I hope he pronounces his name ['dZEndr@n].

To distinguish him from the [ZA~dro~]s around here.

> OK, why? At least, though, if he does, you won't be misgendroning
> him.

How long before we get a mass murderer who does it with drones?

>> ObPunctuation: I decided on the fly to give "gay" a capital
>> letter, because it looked right; but that would also be a good way
>> of disambiguating its use.

> Capital "Black" is back in style, so it could happen.
>> ____________________________
>> * The suffixed "-person" as a replacement for "-man" seems
>> awkward,, and I have begun thinking about using "-hum" or "-um"
>> instead. It is "human" with most of the objectionable part removed,
>> and is spelt "hum" except when (as above) the "h" looks like a part
>> of the preceding element; but it is always pronounced [@m].
>
> The journalistic "spox" is probably a more likely candidate.

Not as versatile. The mailspox doesn't ring like the mailhum.

[CDB]

On 5/17/2022 12:35 PM, Tony Cooper wrote:

> CDB <belle...@gmail.com> wrote:

>>> Before the shooting rampage that also left three wounded, the
>>> suspect, Payton S. Gendron, 18, allegedly posted a lengthy
>>> document invoking the idea that White Americans were at risk of
>>> being “replaced” by people of color because of immigration and
>>> higher birthrates."

>> It's understandable that Black spokesums* point to racial hatred
>> and Replacement fears as the cause of these crimes, but I think
>> they're wrong. The reason little Gendron committed his murders is
>> that he is a deranged asshole;

> Can't both be the reason? Can't it be said that he's a deranged
> asshole who fixated on the Replacement Theory as the core of his
> anger?

> A deranged asshole without some theory of who the problem is, is
> just a harmless deranged asshole. Once that deranged asshole figures
> out who the problem is, then he becomes a deranged asshole that
> shoots people.

> This particular deranged asshole determined that the problem is
> Black people, so he shot 11 people including 9 in his target group.

>> others of his kind have attacked women, Hispanics, East Asians (and
>> Taiwanese specifically), South Asians, Christians, Muslims,and Gay

>> people: any pretext that appeals to the DA will do. I hope he

>> pronounces his name ['dZEndr@n].

> There are probably many other deranged assholes who are still
> harmless, but on the brink of deciding who their target group will
> be.

I fear there are many people who believe in the replacement conspiracy,
at least sometimes; they may or may not be assholes (I think of
assholery in terms of behaviour, not essence), but if they are not
deranged they will not kill people because of it.

[Ken Blake]

"Zero chance" might just possibly be an overstatement, but I doubt it.
You're probably right.

[Paul Wolff]

On Tue, 17 May 2022, at 21:54:02, J. J. Lodder posted:

>Ken Blake <K...@invalid.news.com> wrote:
>> On Tue, 17 May 2022 11:32:13 +1000, Peter Moylan

I'd think they had woken up to the finer detail now available from
atomic clocks, and had re-calibrated time itself. As if!
--
Paul

[Peter Moylan]

On 18/05/22 22:12, CDB wrote:
>
> How long before we get a mass murderer who does it with drones?

It's already started. OK, only one Iranian general so far, but there
will surely be more.

[Rich Ulrich]

On Tue, 17 May 2022 18:00:25 +0100, Richard Heathfield
<r...@cpax.org.uk> wrote:

>
>In my view your reply (cited in full above) is the most
>intelligent contribution to this thread so far.

Thank you.

--
Rich Ulrich

[J. J. Lodder]

'Time itself' is an obsolete concept.
(for over a hundred years by now)

Jan

--
"Everything is relative" (not A. Einstein)

[J. J. Lodder]

Peter Moylan <pe...@pmoylan.org.invalid> wrote:

> On 18/05/22 22:12, CDB wrote:
> >
> > How long before we get a mass murderer who does it with drones?
>
> It's already started. OK, only one Iranian general so far, but there
> will surely be more.

One isn't a mass.
And 'there will be more' is a misstatement.
There have already been many more drone killings.
(starting under Obama, I think)

AFAIK individual killings by drone (if done by the USA)
are still a matter that requires presidential permission
in every individual case,

Jan

[bruce bowser]

On Thursday, May 19, 2022 at 5:26:30 AM UTC-4, J. J. Lodder wrote:
> Peter Moylan <pe...@pmoylan.org.invalid> wrote:
>
> > On 18/05/22 22:12, CDB wrote:
> > >
> > > How long before we get a mass murderer who does it with drones?
> >
> > It's already started. OK, only one Iranian general so far, but there
> > will surely be more.
> One isn't a mass.
> And 'there will be more' is a misstatement.
> There have already been many more drone killings.
> (starting under Obama, I think)

Voor. George W. Bush - Amerikaanse politiek voor Obama
Pakistan - June 2004
-- https://www.thebureauinvestigates.com/drone-war/data/the-bush-years-pakistan-strikes-2004-2009

[bil...@shaw.ca]

Who's financing them? The funeral directors?

[bil...@shaw.ca]

On Tuesday, May 17, 2022 at 1:09:36 PM UTC-7, Jerry Friedman wrote:
> On Tuesday, May 17, 2022 at 1:42:16 PM UTC-6, lar3ryca wrote:
> > On 2022-05-17 10:28, Jerry Friedman wrote:
> > > On Tuesday, May 17, 2022 at 10:04:44 AM UTC-6, CDB wrote:
> ...

> > >> It's understandable that Black spokesums* point to racial hatred and
> > >> Replacement fears as the cause of these crimes, but I think they're
> > >> wrong. The reason little Gendron committed his murders is that he is a
> > >> deranged asshole;
> > >

> > > I suggest rephrasing that as "The alleged reason he allegedly committed
> > > the alleged murders is that he's allegedly an allegedly deranged alleged
> > > asshole." Or something along those lines; I'm not fussy.
>

> > It sounds like you've been listening to CTV news from Canada. I don't
> > know if it's the entire national news team, or just the illiterates in
> > the Regina outlet that do it, but they have a habit of misusing alleged.

I spend a significant part of my free time -- and I'm retired, so that adds up --
correcting the content, grammar and other elements of the TV news,
local and national. Things are in sad shape, as usual. But the national
newscasts of both the CBC and CTV still have some quality to them,
and some of the news analysis shows, in which the journalists have time
and resources to dig a little deeper, are often quite good.

From across the border, CNN is quite good at spot news reporting and
MSNBC does a decent job of propping up the left end of the mainstream.
I know there are other worthwhile newscasts, but hours in the day and all that.

Also, I can get Al Jazeera on YouTube, and it's always a startling breath
of fresh air. That includes but is not limited to local weather forecasts for
the Middle East.
> >
> > "The robber fled the alleged crime scene in an alleged pickup truck."

An allegedly stolen pickup truck, I'll bet. Later allegedly found on fire on a rural road.
> >
> > Welcome back, Jerry.

> Thank you.
>
You're welcome, etc.

bill

[Peter Moylan]

In the case of the United Australia Party, one single billionaire called
Clive Palmer. He's really throwing the money around. The traditional
"rich" party, the Liberal Party, is spending about twenty million
dollars on advertising this election. Palmer is spending more like a
hundred million dollars.

In the last election, he likewise spent like a drunken sailor, and won
no seats. I don't think he expected to win any. His sole goal was to get
the Liberal Party re-elected, because he thought they would approve his
opening new coal mines. In other words, he had no policies other than
his own business interests.

This time around, his lead candidate is someone who already holds a
parliamentary seat, but who was expelled from the Liberal Party for his
outrageous anti-vaccination propaganda. So I think Palmer (who is the
financier but not a candidate) has inherited the anti-vax line by
picking up this idiot.

The other two anti-vaccination groups are not as well financed, although
one of them is likely to win seats by picking up the racist vote.

[Peter Moylan]

On 20/05/22 04:42, bil...@shaw.ca wrote:

> Also, I can get Al Jazeera on YouTube, and it's always a startling
> breath of fresh air. That includes but is not limited to local
> weather forecasts for the Middle East.

Yes, it's impressive how much Al Jazeera reports that is censored by the
bigger news media.

Australia used to have a good free press - far better than the USA, in
my experience - but Murdoch's increasing stranglehold has meant
increasing distortion of the news he allows us to hear. I'm half-tempted
to move to New Zealand.

One of our public TV broadcasters does give us world weather, for what
that's worth.

[Lewis]

I would not believe any test that put his IQ above 105, and I'd assume
it was someone who was forced/bribed, just like the doctors claiming he
was "amazingly healthy" when everyone could see he was fat and bloated
and wearing a diaper.

> You're probably right.


--
Silence filled the University in the same way that air fills a hole.
Night spread across the Disk like plum jam, or possibly
blackberry preserve. But there would be a morning. There would
always be another morning. --Sourcery

[Peter T. Daniels]

On Thursday, May 19, 2022 at 10:10:02 PM UTC-4, Peter Moylan wrote:
> On 20/05/22 04:27, bil...@shaw.ca wrote:
> > On Tuesday, May 17, 2022 at 7:19:12 PM UTC-7, Peter Moylan wrote:

> >> We have a federal election coming up this Saturday. I'm shocked to
> >> see that there are three different anti-vaccination parties
> >> competing, one of them being the best-financed party in our
> >> history.
> > Who's financing them? The funeral directors?
>
> In the case of the United Australia Party, one single billionaire called
> Clive Palmer. He's really throwing the money around. The traditional
> "rich" party, the Liberal Party, is spending about twenty million
> dollars on advertising this election. Palmer is spending more like a
> hundred million dollars.
>
> In the last election, he likewise spent like a drunken sailor, and won
> no seats. I don't think he expected to win any. His sole goal was to get
> the Liberal Party re-elected, because he thought they would approve his
> opening new coal mines. In other words, he had no policies other than
> his own business interests.

That was exactly T****'s intent. No one, including himself, expected
him to win, but major missteps by the Clinton campaign (assuming
that WI, PA, and a couple of other "swing states" were in the bag) and
sabotage by the FBI (announcing a "probe" days before the election)
made it happen.

[bil...@shaw.ca]

On Tuesday, May 17, 2022 at 1:08:57 PM UTC-7, J. J. Lodder wrote:

> bil...@shaw.ca <bil...@shaw.ca> wrote:
>
> > On Tuesday, May 17, 2022 at 3:26:14 AM UTC-7, Peter Moylan wrote:

> > > We know more about lemmings now, but the image of lemmings throwing
> > > themselves off cliffs is so embedded in the popular culture that we'll
> > > never get rid of it.
> >
> > We're almost rid of it now, actually. Your mention in the above post was
> > the first I've encountered in at least a decade. And considering that the
> > main thrust behind the myth for the last half century or so was a staged
> > scene -- i.e., it didn't actually happen -- in a 1958 Walt Disney movie,
> > it has little or no traction here in the 21st century.

> You must have seen few Brexit cartoons,
>
That is true. But they are relatively few here in Canada, and I don't recall
seeing any that used the lemmings-over-the-cliff theme. We're aware of
the Brexit business, but not very anxious about it. If Britain builds walls
between it and the European Community, it will have to trade more with
others, and Canada is a trading nation.

bill

[bil...@shaw.ca]

"Spox" -- for spokesman/woman/person/thingie was, I think, invented
by users of the UPI internal message wire, which was for message
traffic among UPI bureaus and head office, using a variation on teletype
machines.

Pox stood for police, lox for locals, reax for reaction, meaning comments
on the news by interested parties. There would have been others, but it has
been a while -- since before email, and for most people, that would put it
before about the mid-1990s. I worked for UPI's Canadian arm --
UPC -- for a few years in the late 1970s.

bill

[Ken Blake]

On Fri, 20 May 2022 14:59:39 -0700 (PDT), "bil...@shaw.ca"
<bil...@shaw.ca> wrote:

>On Wednesday, May 18, 2022 at 5:12:48 AM UTC-7, CDB wrote:
>> On 5/17/2022 12:28 PM, Jerry Friedman wrote:
>> > CDB wrote:
>
>> >> * The suffixed "-person" as a replacement for "-man" seems
>> >> awkward,, and I have begun thinking about using "-hum" or "-um"
>> >> instead. It is "human" with most of the objectionable part removed,
>> >> and is spelt "hum" except when (as above) the "h" looks like a part
>> >> of the preceding element; but it is always pronounced [@m].
>> >
>> > The journalistic "spox" is probably a more likely candidate.
>>
>> Not as versatile. The mailspox doesn't ring like the mailhum.
>
>"Spox" -- for spokesman/woman/person/thingie was, I think, invented
>by users of the UPI internal message wire, which was for message
>traffic among UPI bureaus and head office, using a variation on teletype
>machines.
>
>Pox stood for police, lox for locals, reax for reaction, meaning comments
>on the news by interested parties.

To me all such abbreviations are unnecessary and nothing but fux.

[bil...@shaw.ca]

Uhm, I'd like to read the post in question, but since you haven't
quoted any of it, and there are many posts by RH up above yours,
I really have no idea what you consider to be his finest hour.

bill

[Richard Heathfield]

I think you've got that backwards. I was complimenting Rich
Ulrich's article (which I quoted in full when so doing), not he mine.

But to find it, simply switch to threaded view, and it's obvious;
just follow up the tree towards the root.

If you can't switch to threaded view, consider switching to using
a newsreader for reading news.

--
Richard Heathfield
Email: rjh at cpax dot org dot uk
"Usenet is a strange place" - dmr 29 July 1999
Sig line 4 vacant - apply within

[Snidely]

Keep keying that in to your Morse key, while sharing a couple hundred
messages with your coworkers.

/dps

--
Rule #0: Don't be on fire.
In case of fire, exit the building before tweeting about it.
(Sighting reported by Adam F)

[CDB]

On 5/20/2022 5:59 PM, bil...@shaw.ca wrote:

Nix, tix, hix, and stix come to mind. Maybe not the UPI variety, though.

[Tony Cooper]

On Fri, 20 May 2022 23:59:50 -0700, Snidely <snide...@gmail.com>
wrote:

_Variety_, a US newspaper that primarily reports on show business, has
their own "slanguage" and offers a slanguage dictionary:

https://variety.com/static-pages/slanguage-dictionary/

The most well-known _Variety_ headline was "Sticks Nix Hick Pix".

--

Tony Cooper - Orlando Florida

I read and post to this group as a form of entertainment.

[bruce bowser]

Money grows on trees, now. Don't you know? No more begging billionaires.