"Contains strong language"

[occam]

I'm referring to the BBC warning before launching an iPlayer program
containing adult language - swear words, c--- words, f--- words and
other obscenities.

Since when has "strong language" been a euphemism for "obscene
language", or "adult language" or even "unsuitable language"?

"Strong language" conjures images of powerful use of language e.g.
Churchill's speeches, Martin Luther's "I have a Dream" speech etc.

[Jerry Friedman]

On 10/14/17 2:19 PM, occam wrote:
> I'm referring to the BBC warning before launching an iPlayer program
> containing adult language - swear words, c--- words, f--- words and
> other obscenities.
>
> Since when has "strong language" been a euphemism for "obscene
> language", or "adult language" or even "unsuitable language"?

Maybe since

a1910 ‘M. Twain’ Autobiography (1925) II. 88 She made a guarded
remark which censured strong language.

> "Strong language" conjures images of powerful use of language e.g.
> Churchill's speeches, Martin Luther's "I have a Dream" speech etc.

That too. But "adult language" conjures up images of, at least, a lack
of baby-talk.

(I've looked in vain for a cartoon I'm sure I once saw: an "adult
bookstore" selling such books as /War and Peace/ and /The Meaning of
Relativity/.)

--
Jerry Friedman

[Horace LaBadie]

According Google Ngram Viewer, "strong language" and "adult language"
almost converge circa 1980, so I am guessing since about then.

[Horace LaBadie]

In article <ortsil$m6j$1...@news.albasani.net>,

Not exactly the same, but:

<https://www.cartoonstock.com/directory/h/having_kids.asp>

[occam]

On 14/10/2017 22:41, Stefan Ram wrote:

> occam <oc...@127.0.0.1> writes:
>> "Strong language" conjures images of powerful use of language e.g.
>> Churchill's speeches, Martin Luther's "I have a Dream" speech etc.
>

> It used to mean (as far as I understand it) language that
> disapproves of something using clear words:


The examples that you give below are 'forthright' language. Not filthy
or smutty at all. The use of 'strong' on the BBC site definitely implies
blue language.



>
> "»I will acknowledge to you, Tony, that I don't think
> your manner on the present occasion is hospitable or
> quite gentlemanly.«
>
> »This is strong language, William Guppy,« returns
> Mr. Weevle.
>
> »Sir, it may be,« retorts Mr. William Guppy, »but I feel
> strongly when I use it.«"
>
> "Bleak House" - Charles Dickens
>
> "»Sir, I am a helpless orphan in a foreign land. Have
> pity on me. Don't ­ now don't inflict that most
> in-FERNAL old legend on me any more to-day!«
>
> There ­ I had used strong language, after promising I
> would never do so again; but the provocation was more
> than human nature could bear.
>
> If you had been bored so, when you had the noble
> panorama of Spain and Africa and the blue Mediterranean,
> spread abroad at your feet, and wanted to gaze, and
> enjoy, and surfeit yourself with its beauty in silence,
> you might have even burst into stronger language than I
> did."
>
> "The Innocents Abroad" - Mark Twain
>
> "»Assuredly,« said she, with gathering emphasis.
> »A young man for whom two such elders had devoted
> themselves would indeed be culpable if he threw himself
> away and made their sacrifices vain.«
>
> Fred wondered a little at this strong language, but only
> said, »I hope it will not be so with me, Mrs. Garth,
> since I have some encouragement to believe that I may
> win Mary.«"
>
> "Middlemarch. A Study of Provincial Life" - George Eliot
>

[Peter Duncanson [BrE]]

The OED's entry for "language" includes this:

2.
a. The form of words in which something is communicated; manner or
style of expression.
Frequently in "bad language": coarse or offensive expressions;
"strong language": forceful or offensive language, esp. used as
an expression of anger or strong feeling.


--
Peter Duncanson, UK
(in alt.usage.english)

[occam]

Not that one, but close:
https://www.pinterest.com/pin/132996995226332462/

[Peter Moylan]

On 15/10/17 07:41, Stefan Ram wrote:
> occam <oc...@127.0.0.1> writes:

>> "Strong language" conjures images of powerful use of language e.g.
>> Churchill's speeches, Martin Luther's "I have a Dream" speech etc.
>

> It used to mean (as far as I understand it) language that
> disapproves of something using clear words:

[snip examples from Dickens, Twain, Eliot]

In those examples it means what we would now call "blunt language". Not
quite the same as what Occam says the BBC is doing.

I'm trying to remember what our TV stations say when giving a similar
warning. I can remember "adult themes and sexual references", but I
think "coarse language" is sometimes also mentioned.

--
Peter Moylan http://www.pmoylan.org
Newcastle, NSW, Australia

[Lewis]

In message <ortrgn$e31$1...@dont-email.me> occam <oc...@127.0.0.1> wrote:
> I'm referring to the BBC warning before launching an iPlayer program
> containing adult language - swear words, c--- words, f--- words and
> other obscenities.

> Since when has "strong language" been a euphemism for "obscene
> language", or "adult language" or even "unsuitable language"?

My entire life.

> "Strong language" conjures images of powerful use of language e.g.
> Churchill's speeches, Martin Luther's "I have a Dream" speech etc.

No, none of those would be described as "Strong language".


--
I'll trade you 223 Wesley Crushers for your Captain Picard

[Will Parsons]

Martin Luther didn't give that speech. For "strong language" from Martin
Luther, the most famous is:

Hier stehe Ich. Ich kann nicht anders.

--
Will

[Jerry Friedman]

On 10/14/17 2:58 PM, Horace LaBadie wrote:
> In article <ortsil$m6j$1...@news.albasani.net>,
> Jerry Friedman <jerry_f...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>> On 10/14/17 2:19 PM, occam wrote:
>>> I'm referring to the BBC warning before launching an iPlayer program
>>> containing adult language - swear words, c--- words, f--- words and
>>> other obscenities.
>>>
>>> Since when has "strong language" been a euphemism for "obscene
>>> language", or "adult language" or even "unsuitable language"?
>>
>> Maybe since
>>

>> a1910 ‘M. Twain’ Autobiography (1925) II. 88 She made a guarded

>> remark which censured strong language.
>>
>>> "Strong language" conjures images of powerful use of language e.g.
>>> Churchill's speeches, Martin Luther's "I have a Dream" speech etc.
>>
>> That too. But "adult language" conjures up images of, at least, a lack
>> of baby-talk.
>>
>> (I've looked in vain for a cartoon I'm sure I once saw: an "adult
>> bookstore" selling such books as /War and Peace/ and /The Meaning of
>> Relativity/.)
>
> Not exactly the same, but:
>
> <https://www.cartoonstock.com/directory/h/having_kids.asp>

Totally different, but I liked it.

--
Jerry Friedman

[Mark Brader]

> > Since when has "strong language" been a euphemism for "obscene
> > language", or "adult language" or even "unsuitable language"?

> ...But "adult language" conjures up images of, at least, a lack
> of baby-talk.

See signature quote.
--
Mark Brader | Our censorship system has one inexplicable anomaly.
Toronto | One of the rating codes is M for "mature", but there
m...@vex.net | isn't any corresponding "I" code... --Peter Moylan

[Jerry Friedman]

On 10/14/17 4:10 PM, occam wrote:
> On 14/10/2017 22:37, Jerry Friedman wrote:
>> On 10/14/17 2:19 PM, occam wrote:

...

>>> Since when has "strong language" been a euphemism for "obscene
>>> language", or "adult language" or even "unsuitable language"?

...

>>> "Strong language" conjures images of powerful use of language e.g.
>>> Churchill's speeches, Martin Luther's "I have a Dream" speech etc.
>>
>> That too.  But "adult language" conjures up images of, at least, a lack
>> of baby-talk.
>>
>> (I've looked in vain for a cartoon I'm sure I once saw: an "adult
>> bookstore" selling such books as /War and Peace/ and /The Meaning of
>> Relativity/.)
>>
>
> Not that one, but close:
> https://www.pinterest.com/pin/132996995226332462/

:-)

By the way, Nabokov said, "/War and Peace/, though a little too long, is
a rollicking historical novel written for that amorphic and limp
creature known as 'the general reader,' and more specifically for the
young."

Maybe the cartoonist didn't share that opinion.

--
Jerry Friedman

[Athel Cornish-Bowden]

As far as I recall our TV stations don't give any warning for language
at all, though if there is more than the usual amount of sex scenes or
violence they say that it's unsuitable for under 10.


--
athel

[occam]

Sorry, I left out the 'King'

[Mark Brader]

>>> "Strong language" conjures images of powerful use of language e.g.
>>> Churchill's speeches, Martin Luther's "I have a Dream" speech etc.

> Sorry, I left out the 'King'

King Churchill? King Martin Luther? :-)
--
Mark Brader | "In the land of truth, my friend,
Toronto | the man with one fact is king."
m...@vex.net | --"In the Loop", Jesse Armstrong et al.

[Peter Duncanson [BrE]]

On Sat, 14 Oct 2017 22:19:37 +0200, occam <oc...@127.0.0.1> wrote:

In the UK the phrase "strong language" is used officially by Ofcom, the
TV and radio broadcast regulator.

The phrase is used as a catch-all for various types of language that
some viewers will find offensive.

[Whiskers]

You might be young when you start.

--
-- ^^^^^^^^^^
-- Whiskers
-- ~~~~~~~~~~

[Horace LaBadie]

"It's good to be King."

[Tony Cooper]

TV "stations" in the US do not provide any notification of this sort,
but the program may contain the notification. I assume the network
requires the originator of the program to add the information, but I'm
not sure how it works.

Many programs start with a black screen and some or all of these
warnings:

D - Suggestive Dialogue
L - Coarse Language
S - Sexual Content
V - Violence

This is Turner Broadcasting's screen, and is typical.

https://www.onenewsnow.com/media/5635492/tv_ratings_ma_800x500.jpg

The "MA" is "Mature Audiences".

--
Tony Cooper - Orlando, Florida

[Peter T. Daniels]

On Sunday, October 15, 2017 at 9:49:03 AM UTC-4, Tony Cooper wrote:
> On Sun, 15 Oct 2017 07:17:06 +0200, Athel Cornish-Bowden
> <acor...@imm.cnrs.fr> wrote:
> >On 2017-10-14 23:35:08 +0000, Peter Moylan said:
> >> On 15/10/17 07:41, Stefan Ram wrote:
> >>> occam <oc...@127.0.0.1> writes:

> >>>> "Strong language" conjures images of powerful use of language e.g.
> >>>> Churchill's speeches, Martin Luther's "I have a Dream" speech etc.
> >>> It used to mean (as far as I understand it) language that
> >>> disapproves of something using clear words:
> >> [snip examples from Dickens, Twain, Eliot]
> >> In those examples it means what we would now call "blunt language". Not
> >> quite the same as what Occam says the BBC is doing.
> >> I'm trying to remember what our TV stations say when giving a similar
> >> warning. I can remember "adult themes and sexual references", but I
> >> think "coarse language" is sometimes also mentioned.
> >As far as I recall our TV stations don't give any warning for language
> >at all, though if there is more than the usual amount of sex scenes or
> >violence they say that it's unsuitable for under 10.
>
> TV "stations" in the US do not provide any notification of this sort,
> but the program may

are required to

(unless you're again confusing broadcast with non-broadcast media; but a "TV
station" is one that broadcasts)

> contain the notification. I assume the network
> requires the originator of the program to add the information, but I'm
> not sure how it works.

No, the FCC.

> Many

all

> programs start with a black

in my experience, never; the screen may be black for a moment before the first
image appears, but the rating notification appears in the upper left corner of
the image(s) for some predetermined number of seconds (maybe 10)

> screen and some or all of these
> warnings:

These are different from the Ratings (G, PG, TV14; there may be others), which
are what I describe above.

> D - Suggestive Dialogue
> L - Coarse Language
> S - Sexual Content
> V - Violence

Again, rarely on a plain black background.

[occam]

For under 10? Those French kids start a little early, don't they?

[occam]

So, "Contains offensive language"

[Janet]

In article <oru1bj$n3a$1...@dont-email.me>, oc...@127.0.0.1 says...

> The examples that you give below are 'forthright' language. Not filthy
> or smutty at all. The use of 'strong' on the BBC site definitely implies
> blue language.

No, it doesn't. It includes offensive/ derogatory terms about race,
religion, and physical amdn mental disability.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/editorialguidelines/guidance/strong-
language/guidance-full#heading-definition-of-strong-language

Janet.

[Mack A. Damia]

"Blue language" includes "profane" language by its definition.

Profane language is deeply offensive language showing a lack of
respect.

https://www.vocabulary.com/dictionary/profane

[Tony Cooper]

If my memory is correct, you and your cat receive and watch a limited
number of channels. I watch shows on the broadcast channels, but also
on HBO, Showtime, Netflix, and some other cable channels. What is
"rarely" for you is not "rarely" for me.

The indications that I listed are shown on the black screen that is
presented before the program. Similar to the one linked below.

>> This is Turner Broadcasting's screen, and is typical.
>>
>> https://www.onenewsnow.com/media/5635492/tv_ratings_ma_800x500.jpg
>>
>> The "MA" is "Mature Audiences".

[Peter Duncanson [BrE]]

We are talking about the use of the phrase "strong language" in a
particular context. It could be seen as legal jargon or a term of art.

Other definitions and uses of the phrase may exist in other contexts.

[Jack Campin]

> TV "stations" in the US do not provide any notification of this sort,
> but the program may contain the notification. I assume the network
> requires the originator of the program to add the information, but I'm
> not sure how it works.
>
> Many programs start with a black screen and some or all of these
> warnings:
>
> D - Suggestive Dialogue
> L - Coarse Language
> S - Sexual Content
> V - Violence

I prefer the BBC's in-house one:

"Jesus Christ!" said the Queen, "that one-legged nigger's a poof!"

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
e m a i l : j a c k @ c a m p i n . m e . u k
Jack Campin, 11 Third Street, Newtongrange, Midlothian EH22 4PU, Scotland
mobile 07895 860 060 <http://www.campin.me.uk> Twitter: JackCampin

[Mack A. Damia]

Occam wrote:

The use of 'strong' on the BBC site definitely implies
blue language.

What is the definition of "blue language"?

Janet wrote:

"No, it doesn't. It includes offensive/ derogatory terms about race,

religion, and physical (and) mental disability."

Important to define terms when we debate. The definition of "blue
language" includes "profane language" - deeply offensive language
showing a lack of respect. "Offensive/ derogatory terms about race,
religion, and physical (and) mental disability" are offensive and show
a lack of respect.

"Strong language" includes "profane language".

[GordonD]

Language can be strong without being offensive

I have seen DVD covers that warn the viewer that the film contains 'mild
language'.
--
Gordon Davie
Edinburgh, Scotland

[Janet]

In article <dc77uct6udvjb5i1d...@4ax.com>,
drstee...@yahoo.com says...

>
> Occam wrote:
>
> The use of 'strong' on the BBC site definitely implies
> blue language.

Occam did NOT write

>
> What is the definition of "blue language"?
>
> Janet wrote:
>
> "No, it doesn't. It includes offensive/ derogatory terms about race,
> religion, and physical (and) mental disability."
>
> Important to define terms when we debate.

That is why I included the BBC's definition of strong language, which
is what Occam was discussing.

You edited it out, so here it is again.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/editorialguidelines/guidance/strong-
language/guidance-full#heading-definition-of-strong-language


Janet.

[Peter Duncanson [BrE]]

On Sun, 15 Oct 2017 18:49:06 +0100, GordonD <g.d...@btinternet.com>
wrote:

Then there are warnings of "graphic images", a phrase that has an air of
tautology.

[RH Draney]

On 10/15/2017 10:08 AM, Jack Campin wrote:
>>
>> D - Suggestive Dialogue
>> L - Coarse Language
>> S - Sexual Content
>> V - Violence
>
> I prefer the BBC's in-house one:
>
> "Jesus Christ!" said the Queen, "that one-legged nigger's a poof!"

The version that made it onto "Laugh-In" involved a teacher asking her
students to give examples of religion, royalty, sex and mystery...Little
Johnny stood up and said "'Oh my God', said the Queen, 'I'm pregnant!
Who done it?'"...r

[Mack A. Damia]

On Sun, 15 Oct 2017 19:17:03 +0100, Janet <nob...@home.com> wrote:

>In article <dc77uct6udvjb5i1d...@4ax.com>,
>drstee...@yahoo.com says...
>>
>> Occam wrote:
>>
>> The use of 'strong' on the BBC site definitely implies
>> blue language.
>
> Occam did NOT write

From your post:

In article <oru1bj$n3a$1...@dont-email.me>, oc...@127.0.0.1 says...

> The examples that you give below are 'forthright' language. Not filthy

> or smutty at all. The use of 'strong' on the BBC site definitely implies
> blue language.

*******************

If you are going to trim, trim properly, Janet.

>> What is the definition of "blue language"?
>>
>> Janet wrote:
>>
>> "No, it doesn't. It includes offensive/ derogatory terms about race,
>> religion, and physical (and) mental disability."
>>
>> Important to define terms when we debate.
>
> That is why I included the BBC's definition of strong language, which
>is what Occam was discussing.
>
> You edited it out, so here it is again.

No, I did not edit it out. Check again. Your original link did not
work. Just tried it again with a copy and paste - "Page not Found".
It seems to put extra characters in when I paste.

This one works.

> http://www.bbc.co.uk/editorialguidelines/guidance/strong-
>language/guidance-full#heading-definition-of-strong-language

I don't know what you are on about at this point. "Strong language"
covers ALL offensive language, and so does "blue language".

[Peter T. Daniels]

Then you should watch a wider variety of broadcast television. The only place
I regularly see that set of warnings (as opposed to the ratings) that I can
recall is on Fox, which puts them up before just about anything Gordon Ramsay
is in (but not Master Chef Junior). Possibly also Family Guy, maybe the (finally deceased?) New Girl. (I don't/didn't watch either of those.) They use
varied color backgrounds.

Clearly Hawaii Five-O should get a V, and L&O SVU should often get a D, but I
don't think either CBS or NBC uses those warnings.

[Peter T. Daniels]

On Sunday, October 15, 2017 at 9:05:29 AM UTC-4, Peter T. Daniels wrote:

> I don't know why I didn't think of this earlier:
>
> "Strong language or abuse
> I never, never use,
> Whatever the emergency.
>
> "Though 'bother it' I may
> Occasionally say,
> I never swear a big, big D."

It's "bad language." Withdrawn.

The question remains:

> (But what about the rhyme of "use" and "abuse [n.]"?)

[Peter Moylan]

You might even /feel/ young when you start.

--
Peter Moylan http://www.pmoylan.org
Newcastle, NSW, Australia

[Mark Brader]

Tony Cooper:
> Many programs [in the US] start with a black screen and some or all

> of these warnings:
>
> D - Suggestive Dialogue
> L - Coarse Language
> S - Sexual Content
> V - Violence
>
> This is Turner Broadcasting's screen, and is typical.
>
> https://www.onenewsnow.com/media/5635492/tv_ratings_ma_800x500.jpg

Action is a Canadian cable-TV channel, and their version of these
warnings is less typical: it's based on the periodic table of elements.
For example, the first movie I ever recorded from that channel had
these notices:

+------------+
| Violentium |
| |
| | +------------+
| | | Swearite |
| Vi | | |
| | | |
| | | |
| | | S* |
| 4 | | |
+------------| | |
VIOLENCE | |
| 34|
+------------+
COARSE LANGUAGE

(You are, of course, reading in a monospaced font for proper alignment.)

A large chunk of the "periodic table" was shown on the side, in smaller
type, and I could see that it included:

Ht - Helicopterite
In - Infernium
M - Monsterone
P - Punchium
Ro - Robotium
Sn - Sniperite
Wa - Warite

And my favorite of the list:

Hg - Handgrenadium

For more of them, see:
http://liberalchemistry.blogspot.ca/2011/04/action-elements-periodic-table.html

--
Mark Brader | "Earthmen learned how to send ships through space, and
m...@vex.net | so initiated human history, though I suppose there was
Toronto | previous history on Earth." -- Jack Vance, "Emphyrio"

My text in this article is in the public domain.

[Janet]

In article <83d7uclabkckvp0gp...@4ax.com>,
drstee...@yahoo.com says...

Strang language covers all offensive language, blue language does not.

OED definition of blue ( language) is "marked by cursing, swearing,
and blasphemy."

which can't be said of many of the offensive terms mentioned by the BBC

Janet.

[Jack Campin]

> Action is a Canadian cable-TV channel, and their version of these
> warnings is less typical: it's based on the periodic table of elements.

[...]

> And my favorite of the list:
> Hg - Handgrenadium
> For more of them, see:
> http://liberalchemistry.blogspot.ca/2011/04/action-elements-periodic-table.html

I rather like this re-use of the periodic table idea:

http://ptos.moderntoss.com/

[Ross]

Or even 'language' tout court:

Motion Picture Rating (MPAA)
Rated R for a scene of bloody violence, some strong sexual content/nudity,
and language | (from IMDB)

I remember NZ warnings from some years ago saying "Use of language may offend."

[Mack A. Damia]

Merriam-Webster: strong language - offensive words.

> Strang language covers all offensive language, blue language does not.
>
> OED definition of blue ( language) is "marked by cursing, swearing,
>and blasphemy."
>
> which can't be said of many of the offensive terms mentioned by the BBC

Oh, for heaven's sake. I am looking at the OED now and cannot find a
term for "blue language".

I can find:

blue

9. Colloq. Indecent, obscene.

****

All offensive language is "indecent". "Strong language" by its
definition is indecent and offensive.

[Peter Moylan]

On 16/10/17 10:11, Jack Campin wrote:
>> Action is a Canadian cable-TV channel, and their version of these
>> warnings is less typical: it's based on the periodic table of elements.
> [...]
>> And my favorite of the list:
>> Hg - Handgrenadium
>> For more of them, see:
>> http://liberalchemistry.blogspot.ca/2011/04/action-elements-periodic-table.html
>
> I rather like this re-use of the periodic table idea:
>
> http://ptos.moderntoss.com/

We have a fridge magnet that says

THE PERIODIC
TABLE OF ELEMENTS

101
Ha [in large type]
[209.774]

The element of
Sarcasm &/or
Quick Wit

Before a chemist comes along, I'd better say that I am aware of the
errors in the above.

[Lewis]

That is lovely.

--
Everything that was magical was just a way of describing the world in
words it couldn't ignore.

[Lewis]

In message <bogus-6FEC2C....@four.schnuerpel.eu> Jack Campin <bo...@purr.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>> Action is a Canadian cable-TV channel, and their version of these
>> warnings is less typical: it's based on the periodic table of elements.
> [...]
>> And my favorite of the list:
>> Hg - Handgrenadium
>> For more of them, see:
>> http://liberalchemistry.blogspot.ca/2011/04/action-elements-periodic-table.html

> I rather like this re-use of the periodic table idea:

> http://ptos.moderntoss.com/

Hah! I need to print that on poster board and put it on the wall by my
computer!


--
"I think my [German] husband is a wee bit tired of me suggesting we
'kill us some Nazis' (with a Tennessee twang) anytime he's looking for a
plan to do something." ~Amy

[CDB]

On 10/15/2017 8:00 PM, Mack A. Damia wrote:

[skookum wawa]

> All offensive language is "indecent". "Strong language" by its
> definition is indecent and offensive.

"You are a poncing, wincing, blinking, diseased little nonentity, the
last sad grunting effort of a long line of degraded failures."

That was pretty offensive, no? Not really indecent, though.

[Athel Cornish-Bowden]

On 2017-10-15 23:11:05 +0000, Jack Campin said:

>>
>> Action is a Canadian cable-TV channel, and their version of these
>> warnings is less typical: it's based on the periodic table of elements.
> [...]
>> And my favorite of the list:
>> Hg - Handgrenadium
>> For more of them, see:
>> http://liberalchemistry.blogspot.ca/2011/04/action-elements-periodic-table.html
>
> I rather like this re-use of the periodic table idea:
>
> http://ptos.moderntoss.com/

A bit repetitive, though.

>
> -----------------------------------------------------------------------------
> e m a i l : j a c k @ c a m p i n . m e . u k
> Jack Campin, 11 Third Street, Newtongrange, Midlothian EH22 4PU, Scotland
> mobile 07895 860 060 <http://www.campin.me.uk> Twitter: JackCampin

--
athel

[Athel Cornish-Bowden]

On 2017-10-15 23:10:26 +0000, Janet said:

> In article <83d7uclabkckvp0gp...@4ax.com>,
> drstee...@yahoo.com says...
>>

>> [ ... ]

>> This one works.
>>
>>> http://www.bbc.co.uk/editorialguidelines/guidance/strong-
>>> language/guidance-full#heading-definition-of-strong-language
>>
>> I don't know what you are on about at this point. "Strong language"
>> covers ALL offensive language, and so does "blue language".
>
> Strang language covers all offensive language, blue language does not.
>
> OED definition of blue ( language) is "marked by cursing, swearing,
> and blasphemy."
>
> which can't be said of many of the offensive terms mentioned by the BBC

I saw (around 1967) the interview with Kenneth Tynan when he said that
he looked forward to a time when it would be acceptable to say “fuck“
on television. That time has now come, of course, but I'm embarrassed
to say that I didn't actually catch the moment when he said it. No
going back and playing it again in those days, of course, so I had to
take other people's word for it that he had said that.

--
athel

[occam]

On 16/10/2017 01:11, Jack Campin wrote:
>> Action is a Canadian cable-TV channel, and their version of these
>> warnings is less typical: it's based on the periodic table of elements.
> [...]
>> And my favorite of the list:
>> Hg - Handgrenadium
>> For more of them, see:
>> http://liberalchemistry.blogspot.ca/2011/04/action-elements-periodic-table.html
>
> I rather like this re-use of the periodic table idea:
>
> http://ptos.moderntoss.com/
>

Brilliant! All it's missing is the official endorsement of Rey Aman. (I
particularly like the sound track accompanying the periodic table.)

[occam]

On 16/10/2017 08:49, Athel Cornish-Bowden wrote:
> On 2017-10-15 23:11:05 +0000, Jack Campin said:
>
>>>
>>> Action is a Canadian cable-TV channel, and their version of these
>>> warnings is less typical: it's based on the periodic table of elements.
>> [...]
>>> And my favorite of the list:
>>> Hg - Handgrenadium
>>> For more of them, see:
>>> http://liberalchemistry.blogspot.ca/2011/04/action-elements-periodic-table.html
>>>
>>
>> I rather like this re-use of the periodic table idea:
>>
>> http://ptos.moderntoss.com/
>
> A bit repetitive, though.
>
>

That is why it is know as a 'periodic' table. Without repetition it
wouldn't be ...

[Janet]

In article <f4j33f...@mid.individual.net>, acor...@imm.cnrs.fr
says...

>
> On 2017-10-15 23:11:05 +0000, Jack Campin said:
>
> >>
> >> Action is a Canadian cable-TV channel, and their version of these
> >> warnings is less typical: it's based on the periodic table of elements.
> > [...]
> >> And my favorite of the list:
> >> Hg - Handgrenadium
> >> For more of them, see:
> >> http://liberalchemistry.blogspot.ca/2011/04/action-elements-periodic-table.html
> >
> > I rather like this re-use of the periodic table idea:
> >
> > http://ptos.moderntoss.com/
>
> A bit repetitive, though.

Excellent homework sheet for PTD, who lacks variety in his adhominems

Janet

[Mack A. Damia]

On Mon, 16 Oct 2017 02:21:55 -0400, CDB <belle...@gmail.com> wrote:

>On 10/15/2017 8:00 PM, Mack A. Damia wrote:
>
>[skookum wawa]
>
>> All offensive language is "indecent". "Strong language" by its
>> definition is indecent and offensive.
>
>"You are a poncing, wincing, blinking, diseased little nonentity, the
>last sad grunting effort of a long line of degraded failures."

Is this anything to do with Daniels?

>That was pretty offensive, no? Not really indecent, though.

Of course it is indecent. It certainly isn't "decent".

[Mack A. Damia]

On 16 Oct 2017 15:53:31 GMT, r...@zedat.fu-berlin.de (Stefan Ram)
wrote:

>Mack A. Damia <drstee...@yahoo.com> writes:
>>On Mon, 16 Oct 2017 02:21:55 -0400, CDB <belle...@gmail.com> wrote:

>>>"You are a poncing, wincing, blinking, diseased little nonentity, the
>>>last sad grunting effort of a long line of degraded failures."

>>Of course it is indecent. It certainly isn't "decent".
>

> I thing Mack meant to say that the individual words
> used are not indecent when read in isolation.

Uh?

Sorry, but your comment doesn't make sense to me.

[Quinn C]

* Will Parsons:

> occam wrote:
>> I'm referring to the BBC warning before launching an iPlayer program
>> containing adult language - swear words, c--- words, f--- words and
>> other obscenities.
>>
>> Since when has "strong language" been a euphemism for "obscene
>> language", or "adult language" or even "unsuitable language"?
>>
>> "Strong language" conjures images of powerful use of language e.g.
>> Churchill's speeches, Martin Luther's "I have a Dream" speech etc.
>

> Martin Luther didn't give that speech. For "strong language" from Martin
> Luther, the most famous is:
>
> Hier stehe Ich. Ich kann nicht anders.

Which is apocryphal, as with so many "famous words".

<http://www.luther.de/en/ws.html>

--
Woman is a pair of ovaries with a human being attached, whereas
man is a human being furnished with a pair of testes.
-- Rudolf Virchow

[CDB]

On 10/16/2017 11:32 AM, Mack A. Damia wrote:

> CDB <belle...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Mack A. Damia wrote:

>> [skookum wawa]

>>> All offensive language is "indecent". "Strong language" by its
>>> definition is indecent and offensive.

>> "You are a poncing, wincing, blinking, diseased little nonentity,
>> the last sad grunting effort of a long line of degraded failures."

> Is this anything to do with Daniels?

No, nor with anyone here. Some of it was once muttered to relieve my
feelings while Conrad Black was ruining _The Ottawa Citizen_. One of
his assaults came with the introduction of a po-faced, pussyfooting,
pumpkin-fleshed pretender to authority, David Warren by name, whom I
liked to characterise in various ways.

Here's a data-point. He was an ostentatious Anglican until the C of E
went soft on queers, at which point he became a chatty Catholic. God
knows what he's moved on to since Francis was installed.

>> That was pretty offensive, no? Not really indecent, though.

> Of course it is indecent. It certainly isn't "decent".

I think we may have found the crux of your disagreement with Janet.

[CDB]

On 10/16/2017 11:53 AM, Stefan Ram wrote:
> Mack A. Damia <drstee...@yahoo.com> writes:

>> CDB <belle...@gmail.com> wrote:

>>> "You are a poncing, wincing, blinking, diseased little nonentity,
>>> the last sad grunting effort of a long line of degraded
>>> failures."

>> Of course it is indecent. It certainly isn't "decent".

> I thing Mack meant to say that the individual words used are not
> indecent when read in isolation.

That isn't how I read it. Maybe he'll explain further. <Later> Ah, I
see he has already replied to you.

My claim of (relative) decency was based on taking "indecent" to mean
"scatological" or maybe "sacreligious". Mack seems to think it means
the same as the more general "offensive".

I confess to impying something a little naughty with my use of "grunting".

[Mack A. Damia]

On Mon, 16 Oct 2017 12:33:40 -0400, CDB <belle...@gmail.com> wrote:

>On 10/16/2017 11:32 AM, Mack A. Damia wrote:
>> CDB <belle...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Mack A. Damia wrote:
>
>>> [skookum wawa]
>
>>>> All offensive language is "indecent". "Strong language" by its
>>>> definition is indecent and offensive.
>
>>> "You are a poncing, wincing, blinking, diseased little nonentity,
>>> the last sad grunting effort of a long line of degraded failures."
>
>> Is this anything to do with Daniels?
>
>No, nor with anyone here. Some of it was once muttered to relieve my
>feelings while Conrad Black was ruining _The Ottawa Citizen_. One of
>his assaults came with the introduction of a po-faced, pussyfooting,
>pumpkin-fleshed pretender to authority, David Warren by name, whom I
>liked to characterise in various ways.

Aside from Mr. Draney's occasional witticisms, there isn't really a
good sense of humor in here, is there?

>Here's a data-point. He was an ostentatious Anglican until the C of E
>went soft on queers, at which point he became a chatty Catholic. God
>knows what he's moved on to since Francis was installed.
>
>>> That was pretty offensive, no? Not really indecent, though.
>
>> Of course it is indecent. It certainly isn't "decent".
>
>I think we may have found the crux of your disagreement with Janet.

I don't know at this point.

Somebody (occam according to the attributes) wrote:

"The use of 'strong' on the BBC site definitely implies
blue language."

Janet replied:

"No, it doesn't. It includes offensive/ derogatory terms about race,
religion, and physical (and) mental disability."

My position is that strong language by its definition in this context
includes offensive, indecent and blue language.

[Mack A. Damia]

On 16 Oct 2017 16:46:39 GMT, r...@zedat.fu-berlin.de (Stefan Ram)

wrote:

>Mack A. Damia <drstee...@yahoo.com> writes:
>>On 16 Oct 2017 15:53:31 GMT, r...@zedat.fu-berlin.de (Stefan Ram)

>>>>>"You are a poncing, wincing, blinking, diseased little nonentity, the
>>>>>last sad grunting effort of a long line of degraded failures."

>>Sorry, but your comment doesn't make sense to me.
>

> I meant, the f-word is indecent just by itself. Put it
> anywhere into a sentence, and the sentence is indecent.
> (Possibly, except when the word is quoted.)
>
> But a word such as "diseased" can be put in a sentence that
> is perfectly decent. »There stood a geranium, diseased with
> yellow blotches.«

Fuck.......fuck.......fuck!

(Monday morning blues)

[Athel Cornish-Bowden]

On 2017-10-16 16:33:40 +0000, CDB said:

> On 10/16/2017 11:32 AM, Mack A. Damia wrote:
>> CDB <belle...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Mack A. Damia wrote:
>
>>> [skookum wawa]
>
>>>> All offensive language is "indecent". "Strong language" by its
>>>> definition is indecent and offensive.
>
>>> "You are a poncing, wincing, blinking, diseased little nonentity,
>>> the last sad grunting effort of a long line of degraded failures."
>
>> Is this anything to do with Daniels?
>
> No, nor with anyone here.

I believe you, but it carried a strong suggestion of PTD.

> Some of it was once muttered to relieve my
> feelings while Conrad Black was ruining _The Ottawa Citizen_. One of
> his assaults came with the introduction of a po-faced, pussyfooting,
> pumpkin-fleshed pretender to authority, David Warren by name, whom I
> liked to characterise in various ways.
>
> Here's a data-point. He was an ostentatious Anglican until the C of E
> went soft on queers, at which point he became a chatty Catholic. God
> knows what he's moved on to since Francis was installed.
>
>>> That was pretty offensive, no? Not really indecent, though.
>
>> Of course it is indecent. It certainly isn't "decent".
>
> I think we may have found the crux of your disagreement with Janet.

--
athel

[Athel Cornish-Bowden]

Ah, thank you. Now I know what Stefan meant by “the f-word“.


>
> (Monday morning blues)


--
athel

[CDB]

On 10/16/2017 1:21 PM, Mack A. Damia wrote:
> CDB <belle...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Mack A. Damia wrote:
>>> CDB <belle...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> Mack A. Damia wrote:

>>>> [skookum wawa]

>>>>> All offensive language is "indecent". "Strong language" by
>>>>> its definition is indecent and offensive.

>>>> "You are a poncing, wincing, blinking, diseased little
>>>> nonentity, the last sad grunting effort of a long line of
>>>> degraded failures."

>>> Is this anything to do with Daniels?

>> No, nor with anyone here. Some of it was once muttered to relieve
>> my feelings while Conrad Black was ruining _The Ottawa Citizen_.
>> One of his assaults came with the introduction of a po-faced,
>> pussyfooting, pumpkin-fleshed pretender to authority, David Warren
>> by name, whom I liked to characterise in various ways.

> Aside from Mr. Draney's occasional witticisms, there isn't really a
> good sense of humor in here, is there?

I got a small chuckle out of attributing Dwarren's presence to someone's
"grunting effort". Exactly what constitutes a good sense of humour is
not likely to be agreed on here.

>> Here's a data-point. He was an ostentatious Anglican until the C
>> of E went soft on queers, at which point he became a chatty
>> Catholic. God knows what he's moved on to since Francis was
>> installed.

>>>> That was pretty offensive, no? Not really indecent, though.

>>> Of course it is indecent. It certainly isn't "decent".

>> I think we may have found the crux of your disagreement with
>> Janet.

> I don't know at this point.

> Somebody (occam according to the attributes) wrote:

> "The use of 'strong' on the BBC site definitely implies blue
> language."

Maybe it does. Certainly, it can. I was looking at the intersection of
"offensive" and "decent".

> Janet replied:

> "No, it doesn't. It includes offensive/ derogatory terms about
> race, religion, and physical (and) mental disability."

> My position is that strong language by its definition in this
> context includes offensive, indecent and blue language.

Did you know that "strong language" is "skookum wawa" in Chinook Jargon?
I think they had a friendlier attitude towards strength, though.

[David Kleinecke]

I feel like "strong" language is confused with effective
language. The effect of language depends almost entirely on
its context.

Foe example Marlowe has Mephistopheles say:
Why this is Hell - nor am I out of it.
Not particularly strong words - but, in context,
a bombshell.

Even Marlowe didn't dare follow that thought through.

[Peter T. Daniels]

On Monday, October 16, 2017 at 12:33:54 PM UTC-4, CDB wrote:

> My claim of (relative) decency was based on taking "indecent" to mean
> "scatological" or maybe "sacreligious". Mack seems to think it means
> the same as the more general "offensive".

Mnemonic: "sacrilegious" refers to sacrilege, not to religion.

[Peter T. Daniels]

On Monday, October 16, 2017 at 2:41:52 PM UTC-4, Athel Cornish-Bowden wrote:
> On 2017-10-16 16:33:40 +0000, CDB said:
> > On 10/16/2017 11:32 AM, Mack A. Damia wrote:
> >> CDB <belle...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>> Mack A. Damia wrote:

> >>>> All offensive language is "indecent". "Strong language" by its
> >>>> definition is indecent and offensive.
> >>> "You are a poncing, wincing, blinking, diseased little nonentity,
> >>> the last sad grunting effort of a long line of degraded failures."
> >> Is this anything to do with Daniels?
> > No, nor with anyone here.
>
> I believe you, but it carried a strong suggestion of PTD.

The fucking asshole senile liar is channeling the sociopath again.

[Peter T. Daniels]

"L'enfer, c'est les autres"?

[David Kleinecke]

A few centuries later.

Personally my position is that
Anything forever is Hell

[CDB]

On 10/16/2017 4:20 PM, David Kleinecke wrote:
> CDB wrote:

[how to wound friends and alienate people]

>> Did you know that "strong language" is "skookum wawa" in Chinook
>> Jargon? I think they had a friendlier attitude towards strength,
>> though.

> I feel like "strong" language is confused with effective language.
> The effect of language depends almost entirely on its context.

Maybe affected by the negative associations of "strong drink"? It leads
the user astray, the appetite for it grows with feeding, it may provoke
fisticuffs: to be kept away from women and children.

The implications seem to be positive for the CJ phrase. It was the name
chosen for a collection of writings from the Northwest:

https://global.oup.com/academic/product/skookum-wawa-9780195402452?cc=ca&lang=en&

> Foe example Marlowe has Mephistopheles say: Why this is Hell - nor
> am I out of it. Not particularly strong words - but, in context, a
> bombshell.

> Even Marlowe didn't dare follow that thought through.

It doesn't seem blasphemous to me. Hell as a state of mind.

[CDB]

On 10/16/2017 4:21 PM, Peter T. Daniels wrote:
> CDB wrote:

>> My claim of (relative) decency was based on taking "indecent" to
>> mean "scatological" or maybe "sacreligious". Mack seems to think
>> it means the same as the more general "offensive".

> Mnemonic: "sacrilegious" refers to sacrilege, not to religion.

I don't follow your distinction. Do you mean stealing the communion
silver? Surely pleasing God is more precious to the faithful.

[CDB]

On 10/16/2017 2:43 PM, Athel Cornish-Bowden wrote:

> Mack A. Damia said:
>> r...@zedat.fu-berlin.de (Stefan Ram) wrote:
>>> Mack A. Damia <drstee...@yahoo.com> writes:
>>>> r...@zedat.fu-berlin.de (Stefan Ram):

>>>>>>> "You are a poncing, wincing, blinking, diseased little
>>>>>>> nonentity, the last sad grunting effort of a long line of
>>>>>>> degraded failures."
>>>> Sorry, but your comment doesn't make sense to me.

>>> I meant, the f-word is indecent just by itself. Put it anywhere
>>> into a sentence, and the sentence is indecent. (Possibly, except
>>> when the word is quoted.)

>>> But a word such as "diseased" can be put in a sentence that is
>>> perfectly decent. »There stood a geranium, diseased with yellow
>>> blotches.«

>> Fuck.......fuck.......fuck!

> Ah, thank you. Now I know what Stefan meant by “the f-word“.

Good to be sure. My first thought was "failures".

>> (Monday morning blues)

An insensitive character in _Doonesbury_ once explained the blues to
Clyde. "You know, that stuff you people sing when you're feeling sorry
for yourselves."

[Jerry Friedman]

He was correcting your spelling of "sacrilegious".

--
Jerry Friedman

[Peter T. Daniels]

<sacreligious> is not a word. Any more than <millenium> is.

[Mack A. Damia]

It was a play on "blue language" - "Monday morning blues"?

[Athel Cornish-Bowden]

I think he's showing his superiority by correcting your spelling.
Everyone else knew what "sacreligious" meant.


--
athel

[CDB]

On 10/17/2017 10:11 AM, Jerry Friedman wrote:

> CDB wrote:
>> Peter T. Daniels wrote:
>>> CDB wrote:

>>>> My claim of (relative) decency was based on taking "indecent"
>>>> to mean "scatological" or maybe "sacreligious". Mack seems to
>>>> think it means the same as the more general "offensive".

>>> Mnemonic: "sacrilegious" refers to sacrilege, not to religion.

>> I don't follow your distinction. Do you mean stealing the
>> communion silver? Surely pleasing God is more precious to the
>> faithful.

> He was correcting your spelling of "sacrilegious".

Didn't even notice. Still, the occasional lapse is worth it, to avoid
the attentions of a spellchecker.

[CDB]

On 10/17/2017 10:40 AM, Peter T. Daniels wrote:
> CDB wrote:
>> Peter T. Daniels wrote:
>>> CDB wrote:

>>>> My claim of (relative) decency was based on taking "indecent"
>>>> to mean "scatological" or maybe "sacreligious". Mack seems to
>>>> think it means the same as the more general "offensive".
>>> Mnemonic: "sacrilegious" refers to sacrilege, not to religion.

>> I don't follow your distinction. Do you mean stealing the
>> communion silver? Surely pleasing God is more precious to the
>> faithful.

> <sacreligious> is not a word. Any more than <millenium> is.

Rather less, I think. Still, in the end it's a typo, and I am
going to be watching with interest for similar mistakes. I usually
recognise them on sight; why not this one? The familiarity of
"religious" and "sacre"? I shall relax and enjoy the ride.

[RH Draney]

I still recall with delight asking the information clerk at Borders
where the comedy section was in their CD department and being told
"Comedy? It's just the other side of Blues"....r

[Peter T. Daniels]

And Asshole Moron-Bowden has never trumpeted spelling errors? OTOH, he's probably
never offered a mnemonic for remembering correct spellings.

[Kerr-Mudd,John]

Jack Campin <bo...@purr.demon.co.uk> wrote in
news:bogus-6FEC2C....@four.schnuerpel.eu:

>> Action is a Canadian cable-TV channel, and their version of these
>> warnings is less typical: it's based on the periodic table of
>> elements.
> [...]
>> And my favorite of the list:
>> Hg - Handgrenadium
>> For more of them, see:
>> http://liberalchemistry.blogspot.ca/2011/04/action-elements-periodic-t
>> able.html
>
> I rather like this re-use of the periodic table idea:
>
> http://ptos.moderntoss.com/
>
> -----------------------------------------------------------------------
> ------ e m a i l : j a c k @ c a m p i n . m
> e . u k Jack Campin, 11 Third Street, Newtongrange,
> Midlothian EH22 4PU, Scotland mobile 07895 860 060
> <http://www.campin.me.uk> Twitter: JackCampin
>

Btt

[Sam Plusnet]

On 19-Oct-17 11:17, Kerr-Mudd,John wrote:
> Jack Campin <bo...@purr.demon.co.uk> wrote in
> news:bogus-6FEC2C....@four.schnuerpel.eu:
>
>>> Action is a Canadian cable-TV channel, and their version of these
>>> warnings is less typical: it's based on the periodic table of
>>> elements.
>> [...]
>>> And my favorite of the list:
>>> Hg - Handgrenadium
>>> For more of them, see:
>>> http://liberalchemistry.blogspot.ca/2011/04/action-elements-periodic-t
>>> able.html
>>
>> I rather like this re-use of the periodic table idea:
>>
>> http://ptos.moderntoss.com/
>>
>

> Btt
>
Why is element 70 on the table?

"Blue Tit" simply isn't a swear word.

--
Sam Plusnet

[Athel Cornish-Bowden]

I think Private Eye once found a place in The Listener where an article
about A Pair of Great Tits was written as A Great Pair of Tits. I
expect that was a deliberate “error“ at the printers.

--
athel