Is status pronounced "stay-tus" or "stat-us"?
Mitch Poplack
ExitusActa wrote:
> I've always said "stat - us" and thought that was the
> All-American way to say it. I felt that "stay-tus" was
> a British affectation. But now I notice that most Americans
> say "stay-tus"--at least those on TV. Where does each
> pronounciation come from? And what is the most common
> pronounciation in England?
"Stat - us" comes from the Latin pronunciation. "Stay-tus" comes from
how it is written.
ExitusActa
A. Farrell
Mitch Poplack wrote:
> "Stat - us" comes from the Latin pronunciation. "Stay-tus" comes from
> how it is written.
May I modestly interpolate a respectful "ballocks!". First, no-one knows
how the various
versions of ancient Latin were pronounced. Second, to say as you do, that
stay-tus comes
from how it is written, is to say nothing, as is immediately obvious,
since the original
question was concerned with the pronunciation of the word, the spelling of
which is in
some dispute.
AF.
Mitch Poplack
"A. Farrell" wrote:
> Mitch Poplack wrote:
>
> > "Stat - us" comes from the Latin pronunciation. "Stay-tus" comes from
> > how it is written.
>
> May I modestly interpolate a respectful "ballocks!". First, no-one knows
> how the various
> versions of ancient Latin were pronounced. Second, to say as you do, that
> stay-tus comes
> from how it is written, is to say nothing, as is immediately obvious,
> since the original
> question was concerned with the pronunciation of the word, the spelling of
> which is in
> some dispute.
Bullocks to you too. There are generally accepted ways of pronouncing Latin.
The fact that the exact sound is in debate is not the issue here. A's are
pronoucned relatively consistently across Romance languages (usually somewhere
in the short-A to short-O range) as compared to English long-A. These
languages all derive from Latin to a much greater degree than English (which
gets most of its Latin via French). The vast majority of these languages and
also the accepted pronunciations of Latin all use short vowel sounds for 'a'.
(I want to say all, but I'm just covering my behind.) An English speaker
might be tempted to substitue a long vowel in "status" (long-A) but this is
obviously just from an application of English spelling rules to a Latin word.
You can see this lengthening effect in lots of Latin words because Latin
doesn't generally double consonants, and that's how spelling is in English:
verbatim
vena cava
bona fide <---- Are you also going to claim Romans said [fId] here?
etc.
I'm not saying that the original Latin pronunciation is known; I'm saying that
we can definitely conclude that some pronunications used by English speakers
are not from Latin. "Stay-tus" falls into this category, unless by some
strange fluke the actual pronunciation of A in Latin was the long-A of
English. If you believe that, you'll believe anything, because.the chances
are slim to none.
Mitch
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A. Farrell
Mitch Poplack wrote:
> > > "Stat - us" comes from the Latin pronunciation. "Stay-tus" comes from
> > > how it is written.
[...]
My absurd software constrains me to snip large amounts of other material
if I intend to make a short comment; a grave disadvantage to me from time to time.
I can do no more than point to what you wrote above and in your subsequent post,
and wonder. For instance, how is it that you can say that "Stay-tus comes from
how it is written"?
By the way, the word I used was "ballocks"; an ancient word, and an expletive
almost as useful as the members signified. Bullocks are useful as well of course,
but not in quite the same way for me.
AF.
cheshir...@my-dejanews.com
exitu...@aol.com (ExitusActa) wrote:
> I've always said "stat - us" and thought that was the
> All-American way to say it. I felt that "stay-tus" was
> a British affectation. But now I notice that most Americans
> say "stay-tus"--at least those on TV. Where does each
> pronounciation come from? And what is the most common
> pronounciation in England?
>
"Stay-tus" is the prefered way of pronounciation in Britain. New-Englanders
in America may also pronounce it this way, or those trying to be more
"educated", otherwise, the American pronounciation is "sta-tus".
You say "tomayto", I say "tomahto"...
Cheerz,
Cheshirecat
cheshirecat100(AT)hotmail(DOT)com
-----------== Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==----------
http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Discuss, or Start Your Own
Mitch Poplack
"A. Farrell" wrote:
> I can do no more than point to what you wrote above and in your subsequent post,
> and wonder. For instance, how is it that you can say that "Stay-tus comes from
> how it is written"?
You're annyoing me. I explained my argument. If you don't get it, that's your
problem, not mine.
> By the way, the word I used was "ballocks"; an ancient word, and an expletive
> almost as useful as the members signified. Bullocks are useful as well of course,
> but not in quite the same way for me.
"Ballocks" isn't in my dictionary (figuratively or literally). I was doing you the
favour of ignoring your variant spelling, but if you say it's a different word, then I
humbly retract the "too" from my sentence "Bullocks to you too."
Mitch Poplack
"A. Farrell" wrote:
> I am sorry that I annoyed you, you poor love, but you did *not* deal with the question. I
> regret also that you have not a more adequate dictionary. AHD for instance, tells us that
> ballocks are "testicles, from Middle English balloks, from Old English beallucas" [i.e.
> small balls].
Firstly, I use MWCD10. Secondly, I did deal with one of the quesitons of the original post:
"Where does each pronounciation come from?" Lastly, I'm not even reading this thread anymore.
You are wasting my time. Trust me, a variety of "colourful metaphors" are coming to mind, but
I'm excercising extreme restraint. God I'd like to yell at you in person.
A. Farrell
Mitch Poplack wrote:
I am sorry that I annoyed you, you poor love, but you did *not* deal with the question. I
regret also that you have not a more adequate dictionary. AHD for instance, tells us that
ballocks are "testicles, from Middle English balloks, from Old English beallucas" [i.e.
small balls].
AF.
Blade Runner
wrote:
>"Stay-tus" is the prefered way of pronounciation in Britain. New-Englanders
>in America may also pronounce it this way, or those trying to be more
>"educated", otherwise, the American pronounciation is "sta-tus".
>
>
>You say "tomayto", I say "tomahto"...
...but we all say stat-istics?
--
Geoff (Blade Runner)
Newsgroups: alt.uk.virgin-net.oldbies, uk.local.north-staffs
North Staffs Oatcakes Homepage http://www.geocities.com/NapaValley/2333
You may have to put the cat out to reply via e-mail
Iskandar Baharuddin
Haven't done a proper survey, but I have the impression that most folks
hereabouts start off "status" with a "stat-" borrowed from "statue" or "statute".
How do you guys pronounce "statue"?
--
Salaam & Shalom
Izzy
"So I cheered up, and sure enough, things got worse..."
from "My Struggle", by Alfred E Neuman
Bertie Wooster
>If one were to say the word *as written*, for most it would come out
>as 'stat - us'. 'Cos that's how it's written.
Look, if we're going to argue about pronunciation, then at least choose a
more interesting word -- such as "flatus"
Bertie
Blade Runner
<bren...@highway1.com.au> wrote:
>Haven't done a proper survey, but I have the impression that most folks
>hereabouts start off "status" with a "stat-" borrowed from "statue" or "statute".
>
>How do you guys pronounce "statue"?
By 'you guys' I take it you mean Brits? We pronounce it the same way
as you, but that proves nothing.
How do you pronounce 'staple'?
Blade Runner
Baharuddin wrote:
>> >hereabouts start off "status" with a "stat-" borrowed from "statue" or "statute".
>> >
>> >How do you guys pronounce "statue"?
>>
>> By 'you guys' I take it you mean Brits? We pronounce it the same way
>> as you, but that proves nothing.
>
>Nah. I mean all you guys, LeftPondian or Right/
>
>>
>>
>> How do you pronounce 'staple'?
>
>Stay-ple. Is there another way?
No, just pointing out that you cannot use the pronunciation of one
word as a guide to 'proper' pronunciation of another. We pronounce
status with a "stat" borrowed from "staple". Or, more appropriately,
"state".
Iskandar Baharuddin
> On Thu, 08 Apr 1999 16:45:27 +0800, Iskandar Baharuddin
> <bren...@highway1.com.au> wrote:
>
> >Haven't done a proper survey, but I have the impression that most folks
> >hereabouts start off "status" with a "stat-" borrowed from "statue" or "statute".
> >
> >How do you guys pronounce "statue"?
>
> By 'you guys' I take it you mean Brits? We pronounce it the same way
> as you, but that proves nothing.
Nah. I mean all you guys, LeftPondian or Right/
>
>
> How do you pronounce 'staple'?
Stay-ple. Is there another way?
>
>
> --
> Geoff (Blade Runner)
> Newsgroups: alt.uk.virgin-net.oldbies, uk.local.north-staffs
> North Staffs Oatcakes Homepage http://www.geocities.com/NapaValley/2333
> You may have to put the cat out to reply via e-mail
Iskandar Baharuddin
> On Sat, 10 Apr 1999 06:09:02 +0800 in alt.usage.english, Iskandar
> Baharuddin wrote:
>
> >> >hereabouts start off "status" with a "stat-" borrowed from "statue" or "statute".
> >> >
> >> >How do you guys pronounce "statue"?
> >>
> >> By 'you guys' I take it you mean Brits? We pronounce it the same way
> >> as you, but that proves nothing.
> >
> >Nah. I mean all you guys, LeftPondian or Right/
> >
> >>
> >>
> >> How do you pronounce 'staple'?
> >
> >Stay-ple. Is there another way?
>
> No, just pointing out that you cannot use the pronunciation of one
> word as a guide to 'proper' pronunciation of another. We pronounce
> status with a "stat" borrowed from "staple". Or, more appropriately,
> "state".
>
This sounds like a thickly veiled accusation of prescriptivism.
Perish the thought!
I was just too lazy to bring up my ASCII IPA crib sheet.
Anyhow, "state" follows the 87.6% effective rule that sticking an e after a consonant
after an a makes it long.
Unless the consonant is an r.
Or a w
Which, IINM, accounts for the 12.4%.
Blade Runner
Baharuddin wrote:
>> No, just pointing out that you cannot use the pronunciation of one
>> word as a guide to 'proper' pronunciation of another. We pronounce
>> status with a "stat" borrowed from "staple". Or, more appropriately,
>> "state".
>>
>
>This sounds like a thickly veiled accusation of prescriptivism.
Nah, just fooling around. However I am interested in how people use
and pronounce words, not rules. The differences may come about as a
result of dialect and may not always be universally adopted
For instance how about data? I've heard it pronounced 'day-ta' and
'da-ta' (well, more lake da-da' really) by Americans on television.
Favoured pronunciation in the UK is 'day-ta. So is there a 'right'
way to pronounce it?
JNugent
>For instance how about data? I've heard it pronounced 'day-ta' and
>'da-ta' (well, more lake da-da' really) by Americans on television.
>Favoured pronunciation in the UK is 'day-ta. So is there a 'right'
>way to pronounce it?
At school, I was taught that the Latin word "datum" was pronounced:
"day-tum".
"Data" is merely its plural: "day-ta".
I am aware that Latin pronunkiation is kontroverkial.
Evan Kirshenbaum
> For instance how about data? I've heard it pronounced 'day-ta' and
> 'da-ta' (well, more lake da-da' really) by Americans on television.
What you're hearing is /d&t@/ pronounced as [d&*@], with an alveolar
flap [*] replacing the /t/. One key difference between (many)
American and (many) British dialects is that Brits tend to use
aspiration to distinguish voiced and voiceless consonants, while
Americans use the length of the preceding vowel. For us, vowels are
lengthened when they precede voiced stops (and the stop itself is
shortened).
When this is combined with the American habit of replacing medial /t/
and /d/ by [*], it leads to Brits thinking that Americans are
replacing /t/ by /d/ (because [*] is unaspirated), while Americans
think (though less often) that Brits replace /d/ by /t/ (because they
don't lengthen the preceding vowel). In concrete terms, with a pair
like "writing" and "riding", cispondian speakers will be heard
correctly, but Brits will hear Americans saying both as "riding" while
Americans may hear Brits saying both as "writing". (I remember a
class at Stanford getting very confused hearing a British student
talking about his "writing instructor" until we finally figured out
that he was talking about a "riding instructor".)
--
Evan Kirshenbaum +------------------------------------
HP Laboratories |"The Dynamics of Interbeing and
1501 Page Mill Road, Building 1U |Monological Imperatives in 'Dick
Palo Alto, CA 94304 |and Jane' : A Study in Psychic
|Transrelational Modes."
kirsh...@hpl.hp.com | Calvin
(650)857-7572
geoff butler
>I've always said "stat - us" and thought that was the
>All-American way to say it. I felt that "stay-tus" was
>a British affectation. But now I notice that most Americans
>pronounciation in England?
I can't speak for the whole of England, but the common pronunciation in
Britain is with the long 'a', /'steItUs/, 'stay-tus'.
Furthermore, I'm offended that you consider the way I pronounce my own
language to be 'an affectation'.
-ler
geoff butler
>original post:
>"Where does each pronounciation come from?" Lastly, I'm not even reading this
>thread anymore.
>You are wasting my time. Trust me, a variety of "colourful metaphors" are
>coming to mind, but
>I'm excercising extreme restraint. God I'd like to yell at you in person.
Exercise some more, then: I too think you're wrong. I don't think that
you can say that *any* English word is pronounced the way it is because
that's the way it was pronounced in Latin.
You yourself pointed out that there are standard ways of pronouncing
Latin, which I do agree with, but the key there is the plural 'ways',
not just one way.
I think the best you can hope for is that 'status' is pronounced
/'st&tus/ in a probably misguided attempt to simulate the Latin
pronunciation, in the same way that many imported French words have a
certainly misguided attempt to simulate the French pronunciation. I
can't see that this origin deserves a 'because'.
-ler
aj.ho...@gmail.com
Lewis
> So what’s the status?
Both ˈsteɪdəs and ˈstædəs, are correct in AmE.
Did you check a dictionary?
--
I want a refund, I want a light, I want a reason for all this night
after night after night after night
bill van
bill
occam
first, and let the skin peel off as with boiled potatoes?
Athel Cornish-Bowden
> In message <be026307-3459-4120...@googlegroups.com>
> aj.ho...@gmail.com <aj.ho...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> So what’s the status?
>
> status | ˈsteɪdəs, ˈstædəs |
>
> Both ˈsteɪdəs and ˈstædəs, are correct in AmE.
British English speakers hear those words in American speech as [d].
> Did you check a dictionary?
--
bill van
unwilling to look it up. Nothing to which to reply.
bill
occam
I plead guilty on the first count. In my defence, I claim the idiom
implies cruelty to cats, uses mental imagery depicting cruelty to
animals, and is probably not condoned by the RSPCA.
Athel Cornish-Bowden
swing a cat".
--
athel
Kerr-Mudd,John
--
Bah, and indeed, Humbug.
Kerr-Mudd,John
charles
nine tales' - a rather nasty punishment device.
--
from KT24 in Surrey, England
"I'd rather die of exhaustion than die of boredom" Thomas Carlyle
Tony Cooper
cat. That is the arc that often encompasses his extent of knowledge
about what is common or done in the US.
--
Tony Cooper - Orlando, Florida
Athel Cornish-Bowden
> On Thu, 2 May 2019 13:29:12 +0200, Athel Cornish-Bowden
> <acor...@imm.cnrs.fr> wrote:
>
>> On 2019-05-02 10:06:24 +0000, occam said:
>>
>>> On 02/05/2019 10:10, bill van wrote:
>>>> On 2019-05-02 07:10:07 +0000, occam said:
>>>>
>>>>> On 02/05/2019 07:34, bill van wrote:
>>>>>> On 2019-05-01 22:23:45 +0000, aj.ho...@gmail.com said:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> So what’s the status?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Both, of course. More than one way to skin a cat.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Oh? What is the other way to skin a cat? Can do dip it in hot water
>>>>> first, and let the skin peel off as with boiled potatoes?
>>>>
>>>> Intentional misunderstanding. Pretending not to understand a common
>>>> idiom, or
>>>> unwilling to look it up. Nothing to which to reply.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Thanks for the reply. <smile>
>>>
>>> I plead guilty on the first count. In my defence, I claim the idiom
>>> implies cruelty to cats, uses mental imagery depicting cruelty to
>>> animals, and is probably not condoned by the RSPCA.
>>
>> Or by PTD, who has claimed to be offended by the phrase "no room to
>> swing a cat".
>
> Actually, what he objects to is any reference to the arc of his swung
> cat.
he objected to. You need to keep track of the goalposts when they move.
> That is the arc that often encompasses his extent of knowledge
> about what is common or done in the US.
--
David Kleinecke
> It's no good crying over spilt milk.
Kerr-Mudd,John
wrote:
> On Thursday, May 2, 2019 at 4:49:09 AM UTC-7, Kerr-Mudd,John wrote:
>
>> It's no good crying over spilt milk.
>
> No use crying over spilt milk. (California English)
>
Joseph C. Fineman
regular. Words ending in a single consonant plus -us taken straight
from Latin ordinarily have the preceding vowel long (in the English
sense): anus, Jesus, minus, onus, mucus. (Note that the length of the
vowel in Latin is irrelevant.)
--
--- Joe Fineman jo...@verizon.net
||: A New Yorker puts up with cockroaches in order to consort :||
||: with swine. :||
Peter T. Daniels
so consider the source.
Why all this fuss over a 20-year-old thread?
Peter T. Daniels
FMurtz
fan cowling.