On Dec 3, 5:22 pm, "
analys...@hotmail.com" <
analys...@hotmail.com>
wrote:
> On Dec 3, 12:27 pm, Christopher Ingham <
christophering...@comcast.net>
> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Dec 3, 11:28 am, johnk <
jhobartk...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > On Dec 3, 10:18 am, johnk <
jhobartk...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > > On Dec 2, 10:29 pm, Christopher Ingham <
christophering...@comcast.net>
> > > > wrote:
> > > > > > wrote:
>
> > > > > > > On Dec 2, 3:10 pm, Iain Archer <
m...@privacy.net> wrote:> Christopher Ingham wrote on Fri, 2 Dec 2011
>
> > > > > > > > >On Dec 2, 2:32 pm, Christopher Ingham <
christophering...@comcast.net>
> > > > > > > > >wrote:
> > > > > > > > >> CNN just now has presented this teaser for a forthcoming segment about
> > > > > > > > >> a hunter and his dog. Is “accidental” redundant in this case?
>
> > > > > > > > >Having just seen the newsclip, I can answer this myself in the
> > > > > > > > >affirmative. The shooting does not apppear to have been intentional.
>
> > > > > > > > Doesn't the fact that you have thus set about answering your question
> > > > > > > > demonstrate that it's not redundant? How would you have reacted to the
> > > > > > > > headline "Dog shoots man?"
>
> > > > > > > I initially assumed the action could only be accidental, but hadn’t
> > > > > > > yet heard the details of the story to learn whether it was somehow
> > > > > > > otherwise.
>
> > > > > > > By the way, is there a specific term for words that are contextually
> > > > > > > but not grammatically redundant, as in this case?
>
> > > > > > What would "grammatical redundancy" be? Marking number on both subject
> > > > > > and verb? Making adjectives agree with nouns in gender, number, and
> > > > > > case?
>
> > > > > > The word you want is "redundant."
>
> > > > > I mean by grammatical redundancy such things as pleonasms and
> > > > > tautologies.
>
> > > > > “Accidentally” is contextually redundant in “dog accidentally shoots
> > > > > man” because logically a dog can only shoot someone (or a cat, for
> > > > > that matter) accidentally. In the situation in which it is used the
> > > > > word provides more information than is necessary, whereas in, say,
> > > > > “man accidentally shoots dog” it doesn’t.
>
> > > > > Christopher Ingham
>
> > > > George Carlin's book, "Brain Droppings", has lists of these phrases.
> > > > He just calls them redundancies. I don't have the book here but I
> > > > remember some examples like 'free gift', ATM machine, PIN number,
> > > > etc. He said there seems to be one word too many in these phrases.
>
> > > > JohnK
>
> > > I found the book. Here are some of Carlin's redundancies:
> > > added bonus
> > > exactly right
> > > closed fist
> > > future potential
> > > inner core
> > > money-back refund
> > > subject matter
> > > honest truth
> > > join together
> > > general public
> > > harbinger of things to come
> > > new initiative
> > > audible gasp
> > > advance warning
> > > execution-style killing
> > > future plans
> > > gather together
> > > Jewish synagogue
> > > lag behind
> > > manual dexterity
> > > occasional irregularity
> > > outer rim
> > > plan ahead
> > > basic fundamentals
> > > first time ever
> > > personal friend
>
> > Some of the adjectives in the examples actually can add information,
> > depending on the circumstances to which the expressions apply.
>
> > exactly right / just about right
> > general public / the music-loving public
> > new initiative / previous initiative
> > advance warning / last-second warning
> > execution style killing / amateur killing
> > manual dexterity / verbal dexterity
> > occasional irregularity / chronic irregularity
> > outer rim / inner rim (of a multi-rimmed structure)
> > personal friend / casual acquaintance
>
> > Christopher Ingham- Hide quoted text -
>
> > - Show quoted text -
>
> how about "dumbing down"?
>
I don’t know how you see this as redundant. The two words separately
don’t have any obvious association. There is no single verb that has
equivalent meaning to the gerundial phrasal verb ... the verb stem of
which is actually is a noun....
Christopher Ingham