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Relationship: My daughter's mother-in-law
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Stan Brown
Nov 27, 2011, 6:54:51 PM11/27/11
to
I occasionally get questions about relationship terms, because I
maintain a Web page on that subject at
http://oakroadsystems.com/genl/relation.htm
Today I got a query about how to refer to one's daughter's husband's
mother (the mother-in-law of one's daughter). As far as I'm aware,
there isn't a term for that relationship. Does anyone know one, and
if so is it standard English or regional or dialect?
--
"The difference between the /almost right/ word and the /right/ word
is ... the difference between the lightning-bug and the lightning."
--Mark Twain
Stan Brown, Tompkins County, NY, USA http://OakRoadSystems.com
maintain a Web page on that subject at
http://oakroadsystems.com/genl/relation.htm
Today I got a query about how to refer to one's daughter's husband's
mother (the mother-in-law of one's daughter). As far as I'm aware,
there isn't a term for that relationship. Does anyone know one, and
if so is it standard English or regional or dialect?
--
"The difference between the /almost right/ word and the /right/ word
is ... the difference between the lightning-bug and the lightning."
--Mark Twain
Stan Brown, Tompkins County, NY, USA http://OakRoadSystems.com
Jerry Friedman
Nov 27, 2011, 7:16:26 PM11/27/11
to
On Nov 27, 4:54 pm, Stan Brown <the_stan_br...@fastmail.fm> wrote:
> I occasionally get questions about relationship terms, because I
> maintain a Web page on that subject at
>
> http://oakroadsystems.com/genl/relation.htm
>
> Today I got a query about how to refer to one's daughter's husband's
> mother (the mother-in-law of one's daughter). As far as I'm aware,
> there isn't a term for that relationship. Does anyone know one, and
> if so is it standard English or regional or dialect?
I don't know one in English. A search for the Spanish words,
> I occasionally get questions about relationship terms, because I
> maintain a Web page on that subject at
>
> http://oakroadsystems.com/genl/relation.htm
>
> Today I got a query about how to refer to one's daughter's husband's
> mother (the mother-in-law of one's daughter). As far as I'm aware,
> there isn't a term for that relationship. Does anyone know one, and
> if so is it standard English or regional or dialect?
"compadre" and "comadre", will probably turn up previous discussions
here. (The Yiddish words have been mentioned too, but they're harder
to search for because of variations in transliteration).
--
Jerry Friedman
Jerry Friedman
Nov 27, 2011, 8:02:39 PM11/27/11
to
On Nov 27, 5:16 pm, Jerry Friedman <jerry_fried...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> On Nov 27, 4:54 pm, Stan Brown <the_stan_br...@fastmail.fm> wrote:
>
> > I occasionally get questions about relationship terms, because I
> > maintain a Web page on that subject at
>
> >http://oakroadsystems.com/genl/relation.htm
>
> > Today I got a query about how to refer to one's daughter's husband's
> > mother (the mother-in-law of one's daughter). As far as I'm aware,
> > there isn't a term for that relationship. Does anyone know one, and
> > if so is it standard English or regional or dialect?
>
> I don't know one in English. A search for the Spanish words,
> "compadre" and "comadre", will probably turn up previous discussions
> here.
...
> On Nov 27, 4:54 pm, Stan Brown <the_stan_br...@fastmail.fm> wrote:
>
> > I occasionally get questions about relationship terms, because I
> > maintain a Web page on that subject at
>
> >http://oakroadsystems.com/genl/relation.htm
>
> > Today I got a query about how to refer to one's daughter's husband's
> > mother (the mother-in-law of one's daughter). As far as I'm aware,
> > there isn't a term for that relationship. Does anyone know one, and
> > if so is it standard English or regional or dialect?
>
> I don't know one in English. A search for the Spanish words,
> "compadre" and "comadre", will probably turn up previous discussions
> here.
Then again, maybe it won't.
--
Jerry Friedman
tony cooper
Nov 27, 2011, 8:06:58 PM11/27/11
to
On Sun, 27 Nov 2011 18:54:51 -0500, Stan Brown
<the_sta...@fastmail.fm> wrote:
>I occasionally get questions about relationship terms, because I
>maintain a Web page on that subject at
>
>http://oakroadsystems.com/genl/relation.htm
>
>Today I got a query about how to refer to one's daughter's husband's
>mother (the mother-in-law of one's daughter). As far as I'm aware,
>there isn't a term for that relationship. Does anyone know one, and
>if so is it standard English or regional or dialect?
In this house, the term is "Dave's mother" or "Pat".
<the_sta...@fastmail.fm> wrote:
>I occasionally get questions about relationship terms, because I
>maintain a Web page on that subject at
>
>http://oakroadsystems.com/genl/relation.htm
>
>Today I got a query about how to refer to one's daughter's husband's
>mother (the mother-in-law of one's daughter). As far as I'm aware,
>there isn't a term for that relationship. Does anyone know one, and
>if so is it standard English or regional or dialect?
--
Tony Cooper - Orlando, Florida
R H Draney
Nov 27, 2011, 10:11:24 PM11/27/11
to
tony cooper filted:
Related question for anyone who watched "The Dick Van Dyke Show": it was
oftened mentioned that producer Mel Cooley (played by Richard Deacon) was Alan
Brady's brother-in-law (Brady was the star of the fictitious show-within-a-show
that the lead character was a writer for)...was Mel married to Alan's sister or
was Alan married to Mel's?...r
--
Me? Sarcastic?
Yeah, right.
oftened mentioned that producer Mel Cooley (played by Richard Deacon) was Alan
Brady's brother-in-law (Brady was the star of the fictitious show-within-a-show
that the lead character was a writer for)...was Mel married to Alan's sister or
was Alan married to Mel's?...r
--
Me? Sarcastic?
Yeah, right.
Nasti J
Nov 28, 2011, 12:33:51 AM11/28/11
to
> Today I got a query about how to refer to one's daughter's husband's
> mother (the mother-in-law of one's daughter). As far as I'm aware,
> there isn't a term for that relationship. Does anyone know one, and
> if so is it standard English or regional or dialect?
The "Family Tree Maker" software program (which I depend on to tell me
> mother (the mother-in-law of one's daughter). As far as I'm aware,
> there isn't a term for that relationship. Does anyone know one, and
> if so is it standard English or regional or dialect?
the relationship between myself and assorted ancestors) has no word
for it - the Relationship Calculator just says 'no direct
relationship' when I ask it to define what I am to my daughter's
husband's mother. Since it is meticulous enough to calculate
relationships that are incredibly remote, such as "Thomas Smith
(1589-1675) husband of [my] half sixth cousin 10 times removed", I
feel sure that if there were a name or term for my son-in-law's
mother, it would tell me.
Nasti J
Nov 28, 2011, 12:41:52 AM11/28/11
to
On Nov 27, 8:11 pm, R H Draney <dadoc...@spamcop.net> wrote:
> Related question for anyone who watched "The Dick Van Dyke Show": it was
> oftened mentioned that producer Mel Cooley (played by Richard Deacon) was Alan
> Brady's brother-in-law (Brady was the star of the fictitious show-within-a-show
> that the lead character was a writer for)...was Mel married to Alan's sister or
> was Alan married to Mel's?...r
According to this site:
> Related question for anyone who watched "The Dick Van Dyke Show": it was
> oftened mentioned that producer Mel Cooley (played by Richard Deacon) was Alan
> Brady's brother-in-law (Brady was the star of the fictitious show-within-a-show
> that the lead character was a writer for)...was Mel married to Alan's sister or
> was Alan married to Mel's?...r
http://sentimental-journeys.com/2011/03/22/alan-brady-show-expose---tv-producer-mel-cooley-is-a-possible-dirty-old-man.aspx?ref=rss
"Alan Brady married Mel's sister, and was forced by his wife to give
Mel a job. "
Nasti J
Nov 28, 2011, 1:16:24 AM11/28/11
to
On Nov 27, 4:54 pm, Stan Brown <the_stan_br...@fastmail.fm> wrote:
> I occasionally get questions about relationship terms, because I
> maintain a Web page on that subject at
>
> http://oakroadsystems.com/genl/relation.htm
I am curious as whether you have ever run across a specific name or
> maintain a Web page on that subject at
>
> http://oakroadsystems.com/genl/relation.htm
term for what I call "double first cousins"? My ex-husband's father
married his sister's husband's sister - that is, a brother and sister
married a brother and sister. So my ex and his sister shared both sets
of grandparents with their cousin, and they are identified as first
cousins, but genetically they more like brothers and sisters than most
first cousins.
Alan Curry
Nov 28, 2011, 3:04:01 AM11/28/11
to
In article <93642806-d3ba-4418...@f29g2000yqa.googlegroups.com>,
--
Alan Curry
Jerry Friedman <jerry_f...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>
>> I don't know one in English. A search for the Spanish words,
>> "compadre" and "comadre", will probably turn up previous discussions
>> here.
>...
>
>Then again, maybe it won't.
consuegro/consuegra might do better
>>
>> I don't know one in English. A search for the Spanish words,
>> "compadre" and "comadre", will probably turn up previous discussions
>> here.
>...
>
>Then again, maybe it won't.
--
Alan Curry
LFS
Nov 28, 2011, 6:05:43 AM11/28/11
to
On 27/11/2011 23:54, Stan Brown wrote:
> I occasionally get questions about relationship terms, because I
> maintain a Web page on that subject at
>
> http://oakroadsystems.com/genl/relation.htm
>
> Today I got a query about how to refer to one's daughter's husband's
> mother (the mother-in-law of one's daughter). As far as I'm aware,
> there isn't a term for that relationship. Does anyone know one, and
> if so is it standard English or regional or dialect?
>
>
In Yiddish, she's your mechutanista (her husband is your mechutan). I've
> I occasionally get questions about relationship terms, because I
> maintain a Web page on that subject at
>
> http://oakroadsystems.com/genl/relation.htm
>
> Today I got a query about how to refer to one's daughter's husband's
> mother (the mother-in-law of one's daughter). As far as I'm aware,
> there isn't a term for that relationship. Does anyone know one, and
> if so is it standard English or regional or dialect?
>
>
never heard of another language where there is a specific word for the
relationship. No doubt doctoral theses have been written on the topic.
In our house, she's Margot.
--
Laura
(emulate St. George for email)
Stan Brown
Nov 28, 2011, 7:25:23 AM11/28/11
to
On Sun, 27 Nov 2011 18:54:51 -0500, Stan Brown wrote:
>
> Today I got a query about how to refer to one's daughter's husband's
> mother (the mother-in-law of one's daughter). As far as I'm aware,
> there isn't a term for that relationship. Does anyone know one, and
> if so is it standard English or regional or dialect?
Thanks to those who responded. The consensus appears to be that
>
> Today I got a query about how to refer to one's daughter's husband's
> mother (the mother-in-law of one's daughter). As far as I'm aware,
> there isn't a term for that relationship. Does anyone know one, and
> if so is it standard English or regional or dialect?
English has no single word for that relationship, but Yiddish does
and Spanish may.
Stan Brown
Nov 28, 2011, 7:31:04 AM11/28/11
to
On Sun, 27 Nov 2011 22:16:24 -0800 (PST), Nasti J wrote:
> I am curious as whether you have ever run across a specific name or
> term for what I call "double first cousins"? My ex-husband's father
> married his sister's husband's sister - that is, a brother and sister
> married a brother and sister. So my ex and his sister shared both sets
> of grandparents with their cousin, and they are identified as first
> cousins, but genetically they more like brothers and sisters than most
> first cousins.
A little googling for "double first cousins" (in quotes) shows plenty
> I am curious as whether you have ever run across a specific name or
> term for what I call "double first cousins"? My ex-husband's father
> married his sister's husband's sister - that is, a brother and sister
> married a brother and sister. So my ex and his sister shared both sets
> of grandparents with their cousin, and they are identified as first
> cousins, but genetically they more like brothers and sisters than most
> first cousins.
of hits. I visited a few of those pages, and if any of them showed a
preferred term I missed it.
Steve Hayes
Nov 28, 2011, 11:54:30 AM11/28/11
to
On Mon, 28 Nov 2011 07:31:04 -0500, Stan Brown <the_sta...@fastmail.fm>
wrote:
>On Sun, 27 Nov 2011 22:16:24 -0800 (PST), Nasti J wrote:
>
>> I am curious as whether you have ever run across a specific name or
>> term for what I call "double first cousins"? My ex-husband's father
>> married his sister's husband's sister - that is, a brother and sister
>> married a brother and sister. So my ex and his sister shared both sets
>> of grandparents with their cousin, and they are identified as first
>> cousins, but genetically they more like brothers and sisters than most
>> first cousins.
>
>A little googling for "double first cousins" (in quotes) shows plenty
>of hits. I visited a few of those pages, and if any of them showed a
>preferred term I missed it.
I refer to them as "double first cousins" and even to "double second cousins"
where that is the relationship.
But if my daughter had a mother-in-law, well, she'd be my daughter's mother-
in-law.
--
Steve Hayes from Tshwane, South Africa
Web: http://hayesfam.bravehost.com/stevesig.htm
Blog: http://methodius.blogspot.com
E-mail - see web page, or parse: shayes at dunelm full stop org full stop uk
wrote:
>On Sun, 27 Nov 2011 22:16:24 -0800 (PST), Nasti J wrote:
>
>> I am curious as whether you have ever run across a specific name or
>> term for what I call "double first cousins"? My ex-husband's father
>> married his sister's husband's sister - that is, a brother and sister
>> married a brother and sister. So my ex and his sister shared both sets
>> of grandparents with their cousin, and they are identified as first
>> cousins, but genetically they more like brothers and sisters than most
>> first cousins.
>
>A little googling for "double first cousins" (in quotes) shows plenty
>of hits. I visited a few of those pages, and if any of them showed a
>preferred term I missed it.
where that is the relationship.
But if my daughter had a mother-in-law, well, she'd be my daughter's mother-
in-law.
--
Steve Hayes from Tshwane, South Africa
Web: http://hayesfam.bravehost.com/stevesig.htm
Blog: http://methodius.blogspot.com
E-mail - see web page, or parse: shayes at dunelm full stop org full stop uk
Don Phillipson
Nov 28, 2011, 11:10:53 AM11/28/11
to
"Stan Brown" <the_sta...@fastmail.fm> wrote in message
news:MPG.293c97d7a...@news.individual.net...
> http://oakroadsystems.com/genl/relation.htm
>
> Today I got a query about how to refer to one's daughter's husband's
> mother (the mother-in-law of one's daughter). As far as I'm aware,
> there isn't a term for that relationship.
We must distinguish two different functions:
-- The descriptive "term for that relationship"
-- The form of address: how person A addresses person B directly.
Only "cousin" seems to combine both functions, but it is nowadays
almost obsolete. As used in Shakespeare's plays, "cousin" betokens almost
any
kinship less close than sisters or parents, including relatives by marriage
but
not restricted to these in-laws (except as "cousin german."). Shakespeare
uses
cousin both as a description of (non-specified) kinship and an address, as
Cousin Jack or Cos. (It may be used more by men and of men, but only a
statistical count would substantiate this.)
--
Don Phillipson
Carlsbad Springs
(Ottawa, Canada)
news:MPG.293c97d7a...@news.individual.net...
> http://oakroadsystems.com/genl/relation.htm
>
> Today I got a query about how to refer to one's daughter's husband's
> mother (the mother-in-law of one's daughter). As far as I'm aware,
> there isn't a term for that relationship.
-- The descriptive "term for that relationship"
-- The form of address: how person A addresses person B directly.
Only "cousin" seems to combine both functions, but it is nowadays
almost obsolete. As used in Shakespeare's plays, "cousin" betokens almost
any
kinship less close than sisters or parents, including relatives by marriage
but
not restricted to these in-laws (except as "cousin german."). Shakespeare
uses
cousin both as a description of (non-specified) kinship and an address, as
Cousin Jack or Cos. (It may be used more by men and of men, but only a
statistical count would substantiate this.)
--
Don Phillipson
Carlsbad Springs
(Ottawa, Canada)
Jerry Friedman
Nov 28, 2011, 12:34:12 PM11/28/11
to
On Nov 28, 1:04 am, pac...@kosh.dhis.org (Alan Curry) wrote:
> In article <93642806-d3ba-4418-993e-041525c0f...@f29g2000yqa.googlegroups.com>,
the normal word for this relationship as well as the relationship of
parents to godparents. Apparently that's not true elsewhere, though
there are occasional examples.
"La última palabra que dijo la señora, que la culpa lo tiene su
compadre (su consuegro) porque le odia mucho (a) su yerno..."
http://books.google.com/books?id=20YNjRAHghkC&pg=PA244
(That's from Valladolid in the Yucatan.)
--
Jerry Friedman
> In article <93642806-d3ba-4418-993e-041525c0f...@f29g2000yqa.googlegroups.com>,
> Jerry Friedman <jerry_fried...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> >> I don't know one in English. A search for the Spanish words,
> >> "compadre" and "comadre", will probably turn up previous discussions
> >> here.
> >...
>
> >Then again, maybe it won't.
>
> consuegro/consuegra might do better
You're probably right. I think that here in New Mexico, "compadre" is
>
>
>
> >> I don't know one in English. A search for the Spanish words,
> >> "compadre" and "comadre", will probably turn up previous discussions
> >> here.
> >...
>
> >Then again, maybe it won't.
>
> consuegro/consuegra might do better
the normal word for this relationship as well as the relationship of
parents to godparents. Apparently that's not true elsewhere, though
there are occasional examples.
"La última palabra que dijo la señora, que la culpa lo tiene su
compadre (su consuegro) porque le odia mucho (a) su yerno..."
http://books.google.com/books?id=20YNjRAHghkC&pg=PA244
(That's from Valladolid in the Yucatan.)
--
Jerry Friedman
Steve Hayes
Nov 28, 2011, 12:49:47 PM11/28/11
to
On Mon, 28 Nov 2011 11:10:53 -0500, "Don Phillipson" <e9...@SPAMBLOCK.ncf.ca>
wrote:
One of my cousins (5th, once removed) once referred to a "shirt-tail cousin",
and I was never sure what she meant by that.
wrote:
and I was never sure what she meant by that.
Peter Duncanson (BrE)
Nov 28, 2011, 2:11:22 PM11/28/11
to
On Mon, 28 Nov 2011 19:49:47 +0200, Steve Hayes <haye...@telkomsa.net>
wrote:
>On Mon, 28 Nov 2011 11:10:53 -0500, "Don Phillipson" <e9...@SPAMBLOCK.ncf.ca>
>wrote:
>
>>"Stan Brown" <the_sta...@fastmail.fm> wrote in message
>>news:MPG.293c97d7a...@news.individual.net...
>>
>>> http://oakroadsystems.com/genl/relation.htm
>>>
>>> Today I got a query about how to refer to one's daughter's husband's
>>> mother (the mother-in-law of one's daughter). As far as I'm aware,
>>> there isn't a term for that relationship.
>>
>>We must distinguish two different functions:
>> -- The descriptive "term for that relationship"
>> -- The form of address: how person A addresses person B directly.
>>Only "cousin" seems to combine both functions, but it is nowadays
>>almost obsolete. As used in Shakespeare's plays, "cousin" betokens almost
>>any
>>kinship less close than sisters or parents, including relatives by marriage
>>but
>>not restricted to these in-laws (except as "cousin german."). Shakespeare
>>uses
>>cousin both as a description of (non-specified) kinship and an address, as
>>Cousin Jack or Cos. (It may be used more by men and of men, but only a
>>statistical count would substantiate this.)
>
>One of my cousins (5th, once removed) once referred to a "shirt-tail cousin",
>and I was never sure what she meant by that.
Michael Quinion was asked that question:
http://www.worldwidewords.org/qa/qa-shi5.htm
SHIRTTAIL RELATIVE
Q From Charles F Weishar: I attempted to find the source of
shirttail relative and similar expressions in Hendrickson's
encyclopedia and your site but have found nothing. I hear the phrase
used to describe a person who is close but not actually related by
blood.
A That's roughly the meaning given in the dictionaries. It’s usually
said to refer to somebody who is a relative by marriage or is only
distantly related, such as a fourth cousin, or is a family friend
with honorary status as a relative. It's fairly common in the USA
and has been since the 1950s or thereabouts.
[two more, longer, paragraphs about origins and regional uses)
--
Peter Duncanson, UK
(in alt.usage.english)
wrote:
>On Mon, 28 Nov 2011 11:10:53 -0500, "Don Phillipson" <e9...@SPAMBLOCK.ncf.ca>
>wrote:
>
>>"Stan Brown" <the_sta...@fastmail.fm> wrote in message
>>news:MPG.293c97d7a...@news.individual.net...
>>
>>> http://oakroadsystems.com/genl/relation.htm
>>>
>>> Today I got a query about how to refer to one's daughter's husband's
>>> mother (the mother-in-law of one's daughter). As far as I'm aware,
>>> there isn't a term for that relationship.
>>
>>We must distinguish two different functions:
>> -- The descriptive "term for that relationship"
>> -- The form of address: how person A addresses person B directly.
>>Only "cousin" seems to combine both functions, but it is nowadays
>>almost obsolete. As used in Shakespeare's plays, "cousin" betokens almost
>>any
>>kinship less close than sisters or parents, including relatives by marriage
>>but
>>not restricted to these in-laws (except as "cousin german."). Shakespeare
>>uses
>>cousin both as a description of (non-specified) kinship and an address, as
>>Cousin Jack or Cos. (It may be used more by men and of men, but only a
>>statistical count would substantiate this.)
>
>One of my cousins (5th, once removed) once referred to a "shirt-tail cousin",
>and I was never sure what she meant by that.
http://www.worldwidewords.org/qa/qa-shi5.htm
SHIRTTAIL RELATIVE
Q From Charles F Weishar: I attempted to find the source of
shirttail relative and similar expressions in Hendrickson's
encyclopedia and your site but have found nothing. I hear the phrase
used to describe a person who is close but not actually related by
blood.
A That's roughly the meaning given in the dictionaries. It’s usually
said to refer to somebody who is a relative by marriage or is only
distantly related, such as a fourth cousin, or is a family friend
with honorary status as a relative. It's fairly common in the USA
and has been since the 1950s or thereabouts.
[two more, longer, paragraphs about origins and regional uses)
--
Peter Duncanson, UK
(in alt.usage.english)
Mark Brader
Nov 28, 2011, 3:33:01 PM11/28/11
to
Stan Brown:
Laura Spira:
> In Yiddish, she's your mechutanista (her husband is your mechutan)...
Okay, folks, it's time to watch "The In-Laws" (1979) again.
"He's going to be my in-law. His son is marrying my daughter."
The character speaking is apparently Jewish, so perhaps he knew the word
"mechutan" and was improvising an English translation.
--
Mark Brader, Toronto | The plural of "virus" is "ad nauseam".
m...@vex.net | --Fred Bambrough
> > Today I got a query about how to refer to one's daughter's husband's
> > mother (the mother-in-law of one's daughter)...
Laura Spira:
> In Yiddish, she's your mechutanista (her husband is your mechutan)...
Okay, folks, it's time to watch "The In-Laws" (1979) again.
"He's going to be my in-law. His son is marrying my daughter."
The character speaking is apparently Jewish, so perhaps he knew the word
"mechutan" and was improvising an English translation.
--
Mark Brader, Toronto | The plural of "virus" is "ad nauseam".
m...@vex.net | --Fred Bambrough
Steve Hayes
Nov 28, 2011, 4:08:19 PM11/28/11
to
On Mon, 28 Nov 2011 19:11:22 +0000, "Peter Duncanson (BrE)"
<ma...@peterduncanson.net> wrote:
>>One of my cousins (5th, once removed) once referred to a "shirt-tail cousin",
>>and I was never sure what she meant by that.
>
>Michael Quinion was asked that question:
>http://www.worldwidewords.org/qa/qa-shi5.htm
>
> SHIRTTAIL RELATIVE
>
> Q From Charles F Weishar: I attempted to find the source of
> shirttail relative and similar expressions in Hendrickson's
> encyclopedia and your site but have found nothing. I hear the phrase
> used to describe a person who is close but not actually related by
> blood.
>
> A That's roughly the meaning given in the dictionaries. It’s usually
> said to refer to somebody who is a relative by marriage or is only
> distantly related, such as a fourth cousin, or is a family friend
> with honorary status as a relative. It's fairly common in the USA
> and has been since the 1950s or thereabouts.
Thanks, that seems to cover it.
<ma...@peterduncanson.net> wrote:
>>One of my cousins (5th, once removed) once referred to a "shirt-tail cousin",
>>and I was never sure what she meant by that.
>
>Michael Quinion was asked that question:
>http://www.worldwidewords.org/qa/qa-shi5.htm
>
> SHIRTTAIL RELATIVE
>
> Q From Charles F Weishar: I attempted to find the source of
> shirttail relative and similar expressions in Hendrickson's
> encyclopedia and your site but have found nothing. I hear the phrase
> used to describe a person who is close but not actually related by
> blood.
>
> A That's roughly the meaning given in the dictionaries. It’s usually
> said to refer to somebody who is a relative by marriage or is only
> distantly related, such as a fourth cousin, or is a family friend
> with honorary status as a relative. It's fairly common in the USA
> and has been since the 1950s or thereabouts.
LFS
Nov 28, 2011, 4:55:29 PM11/28/11
to
while.
Leslie Danks
Nov 28, 2011, 5:03:38 PM11/28/11
to
with legislation to restrain in-breeding to an acceptable level?
--
Les
(BrE)
Peter Duncanson (BrE)
Nov 28, 2011, 6:43:27 PM11/28/11
to
On Mon, 28 Nov 2011 21:55:29 +0000, LFS
<la...@DRAGONspira.fsbusiness.co.uk> wrote:
>
>There's also the expression "kissing cousin" which I haven't heard for a
>while.
I don't think I've heard that for a very long time.
<la...@DRAGONspira.fsbusiness.co.uk> wrote:
>
>There's also the expression "kissing cousin" which I haven't heard for a
>while.
A few days ago I was seeing an optician (optometrist /
ophthalmic-optician) for a routine eye test. While checking my state of
health she asked whether diabetes ran in my family. I hesitated before
saying no. I then explained my hesitation: my late wife had diabetes but
that was not relevant to my health. The optometrist then told me about
her boyfriend's father. When asked about his blood relatives he had
apparently insisted that his wife was his closest blood relative. I was
very tempted to ask whether the man's wife was actually a close
relative, even his own sister, but I decided to restrain myself.
Peter Duncanson (BrE)
Nov 28, 2011, 6:49:04 PM11/28/11
to
On Mon, 28 Nov 2011 23:03:38 +0100, Leslie Danks <leslie...@aon.at>
wrote:
That's what I would have guessed -- that kissing cousins were cousins
outside the consanguity restrictions. However:
http://oxforddictionaries.com/definition/kissing+cousin
noun
a relative known well enough to be given a kiss in
greeting:
figurative: almonds and apricots are kissing cousins
The OED quotes:
1951 in H. Wentworth & S. B. Flexner Dict. Amer. Slang (1960)
306/2 You guys talk like kissing cousins.
1961 John o' London's 20 Apr. 436/3 Marianne Spottiswoode, who
is also a kissing cousin of the publishing Spottiswoodes.
1961 Economist 18 Nov. 676/2 The relationship will be more on
the order of 'kissing cousins'—the experience gained will be
valuable for later and more serious efforts.
1970 Guardian 31 Aug. 7/4 We resemble the Dutch more than we
resemble the people of any other country—we are truly kissing
cousins.
1973 Publishers Weekly 25 June 33/2 (advt.) From cream pies to
their kissing cousins, souffles.
wrote:
outside the consanguity restrictions. However:
http://oxforddictionaries.com/definition/kissing+cousin
noun
a relative known well enough to be given a kiss in
greeting:
figurative: almonds and apricots are kissing cousins
The OED quotes:
1951 in H. Wentworth & S. B. Flexner Dict. Amer. Slang (1960)
306/2 You guys talk like kissing cousins.
1961 John o' London's 20 Apr. 436/3 Marianne Spottiswoode, who
is also a kissing cousin of the publishing Spottiswoodes.
1961 Economist 18 Nov. 676/2 The relationship will be more on
the order of 'kissing cousins'—the experience gained will be
valuable for later and more serious efforts.
1970 Guardian 31 Aug. 7/4 We resemble the Dutch more than we
resemble the people of any other country—we are truly kissing
cousins.
1973 Publishers Weekly 25 June 33/2 (advt.) From cream pies to
their kissing cousins, souffles.
Stan Brown
Nov 28, 2011, 8:02:05 PM11/28/11
to
On Mon, 28 Nov 2011 11:10:53 -0500, Don Phillipson wrote:
> We must distinguish two different functions:
> -- The descriptive "term for that relationship"
> -- The form of address: how person A addresses person B directly.
> Only "cousin" seems to combine both functions, but it is nowadays
> almost obsolete.
What about Bro and Sis, short forms of address for brother and
> We must distinguish two different functions:
> -- The descriptive "term for that relationship"
> -- The form of address: how person A addresses person B directly.
> Only "cousin" seems to combine both functions, but it is nowadays
> almost obsolete.
sister?
Does anyone in the post-baby-boom generation(s) address his or her
mother as Mother, as I was trained to do?
Jeffrey Turner
Nov 28, 2011, 8:44:41 PM11/28/11
to
On 11/28/2011 11:54 AM, Steve Hayes wrote:
> On Mon, 28 Nov 2011 07:31:04 -0500, Stan Brown<the_sta...@fastmail.fm>
> wrote:
>
>> On Sun, 27 Nov 2011 22:16:24 -0800 (PST), Nasti J wrote:
>>
>>> I am curious as whether you have ever run across a specific name or
>>> term for what I call "double first cousins"? My ex-husband's father
>>> married his sister's husband's sister - that is, a brother and sister
>>> married a brother and sister. So my ex and his sister shared both sets
>>> of grandparents with their cousin, and they are identified as first
>>> cousins, but genetically they more like brothers and sisters than most
>>> first cousins.
>>
>> A little googling for "double first cousins" (in quotes) shows plenty
>> of hits. I visited a few of those pages, and if any of them showed a
>> preferred term I missed it.
>
> I refer to them as "double first cousins" and even to "double second cousins"
> where that is the relationship.
>
> But if my daughter had a mother-in-law, well, she'd be my daughter's mother-
> in-law.
I'm my own grandpa.
> On Mon, 28 Nov 2011 07:31:04 -0500, Stan Brown<the_sta...@fastmail.fm>
> wrote:
>
>> On Sun, 27 Nov 2011 22:16:24 -0800 (PST), Nasti J wrote:
>>
>>> I am curious as whether you have ever run across a specific name or
>>> term for what I call "double first cousins"? My ex-husband's father
>>> married his sister's husband's sister - that is, a brother and sister
>>> married a brother and sister. So my ex and his sister shared both sets
>>> of grandparents with their cousin, and they are identified as first
>>> cousins, but genetically they more like brothers and sisters than most
>>> first cousins.
>>
>> A little googling for "double first cousins" (in quotes) shows plenty
>> of hits. I visited a few of those pages, and if any of them showed a
>> preferred term I missed it.
>
> I refer to them as "double first cousins" and even to "double second cousins"
> where that is the relationship.
>
> But if my daughter had a mother-in-law, well, she'd be my daughter's mother-
> in-law.
--Jeff
Robert Bannister
Nov 28, 2011, 8:45:51 PM11/28/11
to
On 28/11/11 7:54 AM, Stan Brown wrote:
> I occasionally get questions about relationship terms, because I
> maintain a Web page on that subject at
>
> http://oakroadsystems.com/genl/relation.htm
>
> Today I got a query about how to refer to one's daughter's husband's
> mother (the mother-in-law of one's daughter). As far as I'm aware,
> there isn't a term for that relationship. Does anyone know one, and
> if so is it standard English or regional or dialect?
>
>
"prick relation"?
> I occasionally get questions about relationship terms, because I
> maintain a Web page on that subject at
>
> http://oakroadsystems.com/genl/relation.htm
>
> Today I got a query about how to refer to one's daughter's husband's
> mother (the mother-in-law of one's daughter). As far as I'm aware,
> there isn't a term for that relationship. Does anyone know one, and
> if so is it standard English or regional or dialect?
>
>
--
Robert Bannister
Nasti J
Nov 28, 2011, 11:40:47 PM11/28/11
to
On Nov 28, 9:54 am, Steve Hayes <hayes...@telkomsa.net> wrote:
> I refer to them as "double first cousins" and even to "double second cousins"
> where that is the relationship.
>
> But if my daughter had a mother-in-law, well, she'd be my daughter's mother-
> in-law.
What would constitute "double second cousins"?
> I refer to them as "double first cousins" and even to "double second cousins"
> where that is the relationship.
>
> But if my daughter had a mother-in-law, well, she'd be my daughter's mother-
> in-law.
Jerry Friedman
Nov 29, 2011, 12:18:10 AM11/29/11
to
On Nov 28, 6:02 pm, Stan Brown <the_stan_br...@fastmail.fm> wrote:
> On Mon, 28 Nov 2011 11:10:53 -0500, Don Phillipson wrote:
> > We must distinguish two different functions:
> > -- The descriptive "term for that relationship"
> > -- The form of address: how person A addresses person B directly.
> > Only "cousin" seems to combine both functions, but it is nowadays
> > almost obsolete.
>
> What about Bro and Sis, short forms of address for brother and
> sister?
In ModColloqAmE, Mom and Dad have both roles, and "Son" is still
> On Mon, 28 Nov 2011 11:10:53 -0500, Don Phillipson wrote:
> > We must distinguish two different functions:
> > -- The descriptive "term for that relationship"
> > -- The form of address: how person A addresses person B directly.
> > Only "cousin" seems to combine both functions, but it is nowadays
> > almost obsolete.
>
> What about Bro and Sis, short forms of address for brother and
> sister?
around in the vocative.
But yes, my brother and I used to call each other "bro" (and still
might occasionally), and our mother would sometimes say, "Your bro".
> Does anyone in the post-baby-boom generation(s) address his or her
> mother as Mother, as I was trained to do?
in a parodic "Yes, Mother."
--
Jerry Friedman
Jerry Friedman
Nov 29, 2011, 12:23:34 AM11/29/11
to
On Nov 28, 5:25 am, Stan Brown <the_stan_br...@fastmail.fm> wrote:
> On Sun, 27 Nov 2011 18:54:51 -0500, Stan Brown wrote:
>
> > Today I got a query about how to refer to one's daughter's husband's
> > mother (the mother-in-law of one's daughter). As far as I'm aware,
> > there isn't a term for that relationship. Does anyone know one, and
> > if so is it standard English or regional or dialect?
>
> Thanks to those who responded. The consensus appears to be that
> English has no single word for that relationship, but Yiddish does
> and Spanish may.
Spanish definitely does: consuegro/a, as Alan Curry said. In some
> On Sun, 27 Nov 2011 18:54:51 -0500, Stan Brown wrote:
>
> > Today I got a query about how to refer to one's daughter's husband's
> > mother (the mother-in-law of one's daughter). As far as I'm aware,
> > there isn't a term for that relationship. Does anyone know one, and
> > if so is it standard English or regional or dialect?
>
> Thanks to those who responded. The consensus appears to be that
> English has no single word for that relationship, but Yiddish does
> and Spanish may.
probably small number of dialects "compadre" and "comadre" are used.
--
Jerry Friedman
Steve Hayes
Nov 29, 2011, 12:43:29 AM11/29/11
to
On Mon, 28 Nov 2011 20:44:41 -0500, Jeffrey Turner <jtu...@localnet.com>
wrote:
>I'm my own grandpa.
That is really, truly, most sincerely awesome!
What do you call yourself?
wrote:
>I'm my own grandpa.
What do you call yourself?
tony cooper
Nov 29, 2011, 1:18:25 AM11/29/11
to
On Tue, 29 Nov 2011 07:43:29 +0200, Steve Hayes
<haye...@telkomsa.net> wrote:
>On Mon, 28 Nov 2011 20:44:41 -0500, Jeffrey Turner <jtu...@localnet.com>
>wrote:
>
>>I'm my own grandpa.
>
>That is really, truly, most sincerely awesome!
>
>What do you call yourself?
That reference may not have made it to your part of the globe. It's a
<haye...@telkomsa.net> wrote:
>On Mon, 28 Nov 2011 20:44:41 -0500, Jeffrey Turner <jtu...@localnet.com>
>wrote:
>
>>I'm my own grandpa.
>
>That is really, truly, most sincerely awesome!
>
>What do you call yourself?
song:
Oh, many, many years ago
When I was twenty-three
I was married to a widow
Who was pretty as can be
This widow had a grown-up daughter
Who had hair of red
My father fell in love with her
And soon the two were wed
This made my dad my son-in-law
And changed my very life
For my daughter was my mother
'Cause she was my father's wife
To complicate the matter
Though it really brought me joy
I soon became the father
Of a bouncing baby boy
This little baby then became
A brother-in-law to Dad
And so became my uncle
Though it made me very sad
For if he was my uncle
Then that also made him brother
Of the widow's grown-up daughter
WHo of course is my step-mother
Chorus
I'm my own grandpa
I'm my own grandpa
It sounds funny I know
But it really is so
Oh, I'm my own grandpa
My father's wife then had a son
Who kept them on the run
And he became my grandchild
For he was my daughter's son
My wife is now my mother's mother
And it makes me blue
Because although she is my wife
She's my grandmother too
Now if my wife is my grandmother
Then I'm her grandchild
And every time I think of it
It nearly drives me wild
For now I have become
The strangest case you ever saw
As husband of my grandma
I am my own grandpa
[chorus]
--
Tony Cooper - Orlando, Florida
Steve Hayes
Nov 29, 2011, 1:34:31 AM11/29/11
to
Steve Hayes
Nov 29, 2011, 2:55:45 AM11/29/11
to
On Tue, 29 Nov 2011 01:18:25 -0500, tony cooper <tony.co...@gmail.com>
wrote:
>On Tue, 29 Nov 2011 07:43:29 +0200, Steve Hayes
><haye...@telkomsa.net> wrote:
>
>>On Mon, 28 Nov 2011 20:44:41 -0500, Jeffrey Turner <jtu...@localnet.com>
>>wrote:
>>
>>>I'm my own grandpa.
>>
>>That is really, truly, most sincerely awesome!
>>
>>What do you call yourself?
>
>That reference may not have made it to your part of the globe. It's a
>song:
>
> Oh, many, many years ago
> When I was twenty-three
> I was married to a widow
> Who was pretty as can be
> This widow had a grown-up daughter
> Who had hair of red
> My father fell in love with her
> And soon the two were wed
Oh yes, I knew that... just wondered what one called a person in that
relationship.
wrote:
>On Tue, 29 Nov 2011 07:43:29 +0200, Steve Hayes
><haye...@telkomsa.net> wrote:
>
>>On Mon, 28 Nov 2011 20:44:41 -0500, Jeffrey Turner <jtu...@localnet.com>
>>wrote:
>>
>>>I'm my own grandpa.
>>
>>That is really, truly, most sincerely awesome!
>>
>>What do you call yourself?
>
>That reference may not have made it to your part of the globe. It's a
>song:
>
> Oh, many, many years ago
> When I was twenty-three
> I was married to a widow
> Who was pretty as can be
> This widow had a grown-up daughter
> Who had hair of red
> My father fell in love with her
> And soon the two were wed
relationship.
R H Draney
Nov 29, 2011, 4:58:00 AM11/29/11
to
Stan Brown filted:
the man's given name...one wonders now if he did this with his actual biological
brothers....r
--
Me? Sarcastic?
Yeah, right.
>
>On Mon, 28 Nov 2011 11:10:53 -0500, Don Phillipson wrote:
>> We must distinguish two different functions:
>> -- The descriptive "term for that relationship"
>> -- The form of address: how person A addresses person B directly.
>> Only "cousin" seems to combine both functions, but it is nowadays
>> almost obsolete.
>
>What about Bro and Sis, short forms of address for brother and
>sister?
One of my college professors addressed every male acquaintance as "Brother" plus
>On Mon, 28 Nov 2011 11:10:53 -0500, Don Phillipson wrote:
>> We must distinguish two different functions:
>> -- The descriptive "term for that relationship"
>> -- The form of address: how person A addresses person B directly.
>> Only "cousin" seems to combine both functions, but it is nowadays
>> almost obsolete.
>
>What about Bro and Sis, short forms of address for brother and
>sister?
the man's given name...one wonders now if he did this with his actual biological
brothers....r
--
Me? Sarcastic?
Yeah, right.
Peter Duncanson (BrE)
Nov 29, 2011, 7:33:51 AM11/29/11
to
On Tue, 29 Nov 2011 09:55:45 +0200, Steve Hayes <haye...@telkomsa.net>
wrote:
>On Tue, 29 Nov 2011 01:18:25 -0500, tony cooper <tony.co...@gmail.com>
>wrote:
>
>>On Tue, 29 Nov 2011 07:43:29 +0200, Steve Hayes
>><haye...@telkomsa.net> wrote:
>>
>>>On Mon, 28 Nov 2011 20:44:41 -0500, Jeffrey Turner <jtu...@localnet.com>
>>>wrote:
>>>
>>>>I'm my own grandpa.
>>>
>>>That is really, truly, most sincerely awesome!
>>>
>>>What do you call yourself?
>>
>>That reference may not have made it to your part of the globe. It's a
>>song:
>>
>> Oh, many, many years ago
>> When I was twenty-three
>> I was married to a widow
>> Who was pretty as can be
>> This widow had a grown-up daughter
>> Who had hair of red
>> My father fell in love with her
>> And soon the two were wed
>
>Oh yes, I knew that... just wondered what one called a person in that
>relationship.
"Confused".
>On Tue, 29 Nov 2011 01:18:25 -0500, tony cooper <tony.co...@gmail.com>
>wrote:
>
>>On Tue, 29 Nov 2011 07:43:29 +0200, Steve Hayes
>><haye...@telkomsa.net> wrote:
>>
>>>On Mon, 28 Nov 2011 20:44:41 -0500, Jeffrey Turner <jtu...@localnet.com>
>>>wrote:
>>>
>>>>I'm my own grandpa.
>>>
>>>That is really, truly, most sincerely awesome!
>>>
>>>What do you call yourself?
>>
>>That reference may not have made it to your part of the globe. It's a
>>song:
>>
>> Oh, many, many years ago
>> When I was twenty-three
>> I was married to a widow
>> Who was pretty as can be
>> This widow had a grown-up daughter
>> Who had hair of red
>> My father fell in love with her
>> And soon the two were wed
>
>Oh yes, I knew that... just wondered what one called a person in that
>relationship.
Mark Brader
Nov 29, 2011, 5:59:15 PM11/29/11
to
Tony Cooper:
story "'--All You Zombies--'".
--
Mark Brader "Succeed, and you'll be remembered for a very long time.
Toronto Fail, and you'll be remembered even longer."
m...@vex.net -- Hel Faczel (John Barnes: ...the Martian King)
> That reference may not have made it to your part of the globe. It's a
> song...
> Now if my wife is my grandmother
> Then I'm her grandchild
> And every time I think of it
> It nearly drives me wild
> For now I have become
> The strangest case you ever saw
> As husband of my grandma
> I am my own grandpa
...which is, appropriately, played during Robert Heinlein's classic short
> Then I'm her grandchild
> And every time I think of it
> It nearly drives me wild
> For now I have become
> The strangest case you ever saw
> As husband of my grandma
> I am my own grandpa
story "'--All You Zombies--'".
--
Mark Brader "Succeed, and you'll be remembered for a very long time.
Toronto Fail, and you'll be remembered even longer."
m...@vex.net -- Hel Faczel (John Barnes: ...the Martian King)
Mark Brader
Nov 29, 2011, 6:26:17 PM11/29/11
to
Steve Hayes:
Double first cousins have two (both) sets in common.
Second cousins have one set of great-grandparents in common.
It could be argued that the term "double second cousins"
should logically be used for people who have *two* sets
of great-grandparents in common. "Double second cousins"
of the type that Steve describes, however, have all four sets
in common -- so by this logic they are better described as
*quadruple* second cousins. (And their children, in turn, as
octuple third cousins.)
If Peter and Laura have a child together, and Evan and Linz have
a child together, and Peter and Linz are brother and sister, and
Evan and Laura are also brother and sister, then the two children
are double first cousins, and their children in turn would be
double second cousins of the type Steve describes.
But if Mike and Donna have a child together, and Tony and Sara
have a child together, and Mike and Sara are first cousins, and
Tony and Donna are also first cousins, then the two children
would have only two sets of great-grandparents in common and
would be double second cousins of the type I'm talking about.
Having said that, I don't know if the term "double second cousin"
is actually in common use with either meaning, and I'm not going to
look it up.
--
Mark Brader | But I think we can do better next time. (Where the
Toronto | word "we" refers to [those] who do the hard work while
m...@vex.net | I sit back and complain...) -- Keith Thompson
My text in this article is in the public domain.
>>> I refer to them as "double first cousins" and even to "double second
>>> cousins" where that is the relationship.
"Gill":
>>> cousins" where that is the relationship.
>> What would constitute "double second cousins"?
Steve Hayes:
> The children of double first cousins.
First cousins have one set of grandparents in common.
Double first cousins have two (both) sets in common.
Second cousins have one set of great-grandparents in common.
It could be argued that the term "double second cousins"
should logically be used for people who have *two* sets
of great-grandparents in common. "Double second cousins"
of the type that Steve describes, however, have all four sets
in common -- so by this logic they are better described as
*quadruple* second cousins. (And their children, in turn, as
octuple third cousins.)
If Peter and Laura have a child together, and Evan and Linz have
a child together, and Peter and Linz are brother and sister, and
Evan and Laura are also brother and sister, then the two children
are double first cousins, and their children in turn would be
double second cousins of the type Steve describes.
But if Mike and Donna have a child together, and Tony and Sara
have a child together, and Mike and Sara are first cousins, and
Tony and Donna are also first cousins, then the two children
would have only two sets of great-grandparents in common and
would be double second cousins of the type I'm talking about.
Having said that, I don't know if the term "double second cousin"
is actually in common use with either meaning, and I'm not going to
look it up.
--
Mark Brader | But I think we can do better next time. (Where the
Toronto | word "we" refers to [those] who do the hard work while
m...@vex.net | I sit back and complain...) -- Keith Thompson
My text in this article is in the public domain.
R H Draney
Nov 29, 2011, 8:31:50 PM11/29/11
to
Mark Brader filted:
character finds himself unexpectedly on the set of one of those confrontational
talk shows and is asked to confess his horrible secret....r
>
>Tony Cooper:
>> That reference may not have made it to your part of the globe. It's a
>> song...
>> Now if my wife is my grandmother
>> Then I'm her grandchild
>> And every time I think of it
>> It nearly drives me wild
>> For now I have become
>> The strangest case you ever saw
>> As husband of my grandma
>> I am my own grandpa
>
>...which is, appropriately, played during Robert Heinlein's classic short
>story "'--All You Zombies--'".
It's also performed by Tom Arnold in the movie "The Stupids", where the
>Tony Cooper:
>> That reference may not have made it to your part of the globe. It's a
>> song...
>> Now if my wife is my grandmother
>> Then I'm her grandchild
>> And every time I think of it
>> It nearly drives me wild
>> For now I have become
>> The strangest case you ever saw
>> As husband of my grandma
>> I am my own grandpa
>
>...which is, appropriately, played during Robert Heinlein's classic short
>story "'--All You Zombies--'".
character finds himself unexpectedly on the set of one of those confrontational
talk shows and is asked to confess his horrible secret....r
Evan Kirshenbaum
Nov 30, 2011, 3:45:58 PM11/30/11
to
LFS <la...@DRAGONspira.fsbusiness.co.uk> writes:
> On 27/11/2011 23:54, Stan Brown wrote:
>> I occasionally get questions about relationship terms, because I
>> maintain a Web page on that subject at
>>
>> http://oakroadsystems.com/genl/relation.htm
>>
out how to spell the word!) defines "mekhuteneste" as simply "in-
law's/daughter-in-law's mother; relative by marriage". He also gives
"mekutoneshaft" as "relation by marriage. "Mekuts" is "outside".
Google translate only defines it as "in law".
> I've never heard of another language where there is a specific word
> for the relationship. No doubt doctoral theses have been written on
> the topic.
In Hebrew, the word is "m'khuteneh" (male "m'khutan").
In Spanish, the woman is your "consuegra" (male "consuegro"), which my
Spanish/English dictionary defines as "joint mother-in-law". The OED
says that "sister" was once used for this relationship, but labels it
obsolete and only cites it to 1701.
Surprisingly, given that the concept appears both in Hebrew and in
Spanish, I don't see a term for it in my Ladino dictionary.
--
Evan Kirshenbaum +------------------------------------
Still with HP Labs |When you're ready to break a rule,
SF Bay Area (1982-) |you _know_ that you're ready; you
Chicago (1964-1982) |don't need anyone else to tell
|you. (If you're not that certain,
evan.kir...@gmail.com |then you're _not_ ready.)
| Tom Phoenix
http://www.kirshenbaum.net/
> On 27/11/2011 23:54, Stan Brown wrote:
>> I occasionally get questions about relationship terms, because I
>> maintain a Web page on that subject at
>>
>> http://oakroadsystems.com/genl/relation.htm
>>
>> Today I got a query about how to refer to one's daughter's husband's
>> mother (the mother-in-law of one's daughter). As far as I'm aware,
>> there isn't a term for that relationship. Does anyone know one, and
>> if so is it standard English or regional or dialect?
>
>> mother (the mother-in-law of one's daughter). As far as I'm aware,
>> there isn't a term for that relationship. Does anyone know one, and
>> if so is it standard English or regional or dialect?
>
> In Yiddish, she's your mechutanista (her husband is your
> mechutan).
And together, they're your "machatunim". Weinreich (once I figured
> mechutan).
out how to spell the word!) defines "mekhuteneste" as simply "in-
law's/daughter-in-law's mother; relative by marriage". He also gives
"mekutoneshaft" as "relation by marriage. "Mekuts" is "outside".
Google translate only defines it as "in law".
> I've never heard of another language where there is a specific word
> for the relationship. No doubt doctoral theses have been written on
> the topic.
In Hebrew, the word is "m'khuteneh" (male "m'khutan").
In Spanish, the woman is your "consuegra" (male "consuegro"), which my
Spanish/English dictionary defines as "joint mother-in-law". The OED
says that "sister" was once used for this relationship, but labels it
obsolete and only cites it to 1701.
Surprisingly, given that the concept appears both in Hebrew and in
Spanish, I don't see a term for it in my Ladino dictionary.
--
Evan Kirshenbaum +------------------------------------
Still with HP Labs |When you're ready to break a rule,
SF Bay Area (1982-) |you _know_ that you're ready; you
Chicago (1964-1982) |don't need anyone else to tell
|you. (If you're not that certain,
evan.kir...@gmail.com |then you're _not_ ready.)
| Tom Phoenix
http://www.kirshenbaum.net/
Evan Kirshenbaum
Dec 2, 2011, 3:15:10 PM12/2/11
to
Stan Brown <the_sta...@fastmail.fm> writes:
> On Sun, 27 Nov 2011 18:54:51 -0500, Stan Brown wrote:
>>
> On Sun, 27 Nov 2011 18:54:51 -0500, Stan Brown wrote:
>>
>> Today I got a query about how to refer to one's daughter's husband's
>> mother (the mother-in-law of one's daughter). As far as I'm aware,
>> there isn't a term for that relationship. Does anyone know one, and
>> if so is it standard English or regional or dialect?
>
>> mother (the mother-in-law of one's daughter). As far as I'm aware,
>> there isn't a term for that relationship. Does anyone know one, and
>> if so is it standard English or regional or dialect?
>
> Thanks to those who responded. The consensus appears to be that
> English has no single word for that relationship, but Yiddish does
> and Spanish may.
Yiddish, Hebrew, and Spanish certainly do. A search of Spanish
> English has no single word for that relationship, but Yiddish does
> and Spanish may.
"consuegra" turns up a Swedish page that lists translations as
Engelska co-mother-in-law, co-grandmother
Esperanto kunbopatrino
Italienska consuocera
Grekiska [sympethera]
Portugisiska consogra
Franska co-belle-mère
Turkiska dünür
http://gratis-ordbok.se/search.php?q=consuegra&l=4
For "consuegro" it lists
Engelska That is, co-father-in-law, co-grandfather, in-law
Esperanto kunbopatro
Italienska consuocero
Grekiska [sympatherou]
Latin consocer
Portugisiska consogro, parente consanguíneo, parentes consanguíneos
Franska co-beau-père
Tyska Mitschwiegervater
Turkiska dünür
I don't know how common any of those words are. My French, German,
and Italian dictionaries don't list them. "Consuocero" and
"kunbopatrino" have links in the Italian and Esperanto Wikipedias (in
lists of family terminology), and "consogro" shows up a few times in
the Portuguese Wikipedia. By contrast, "consuegro" shows up 308 times
in the Spanish Wikipedia. ("Consuegra" is more misleading to search
for, as it's a surname and the name of a city as well.)
--
Evan Kirshenbaum +------------------------------------
Still with HP Labs |People think it must be fun to be a
SF Bay Area (1982-) |super genius, but they don't
Chicago (1964-1982) |realize how hard it is to put up
|with all the idiots in the world.
evan.kir...@gmail.com | Calvin
http://www.kirshenbaum.net/
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