Cockney rhyming slang
Marc Alan Holloway
on the internet would be perfect, but the title of a good book would be
useful as well.
It seems like there are a number of words that have crept into
common usage from c-r-s, whose origins are more or less hidden.
For instance, you have 'loaf'=head (as in "Use your loaf!") which comes
from loaf of bread. Less obvious is one a friend pointed out recently:
bread = money. I thought that this probably came from the same source
as 'dough' = money but of course 'bread & honey' works. The same
goes for "Not on your nelly ", which I would never have guessed came
from Nelly Duff (Who was she?) Somehow the Duff transforms into 'life'
through one or two intermediate rhymes/corruptions. It convinced me
at the time, but I can't remember how it went.
--
Marc Holloway
holl...@leland.stanford.edu
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Michael Robinson
: Does anyone know of a comprehensive list of Cockney rhyming slang? A source
: on the internet would be perfect, but the title of a good book would be
: useful as well.
: It seems like there are a number of words that have crept into
: common usage from c-r-s, whose origins are more or less hidden.
In English use, "rabbiting on". ("Rabbit and pork" -> "talk")
Michael Robinson
Janet Sate
Marc Alan Holloway <holl...@leland.Stanford.EDU> wrote:
>Does anyone know of a comprehensive list of Cockney rhyming slang?
>
I don't know of a comprehensive list - there must be books of them -
but I can add a few of my favourite ones, some of them are more modern
than others.
This is my first posting so be gentle with me...!
Going for a Ruby = Ruby Murray = Going for a curry
Put on your titfer = Tit for Tat = hat
My old China = China Plate = mate
My brand new whistle = Whistle and Flute = suit
A bad case of Chalfonts = Chalfont St Giles (a town in Home Counties)
= Piles (ie haemorrhoids)
I'm cream crackered = Knackered!
The list is almost endless and grows all the time. There is also
Glaswegian rhyming slang which has to be said with the correct accent;
I can think of only one example at the moment...
Corned Beef = deaf.
One Cockney one which has always puzzled me is 'My old Dutch' meaning your
other half which I think comes from Dutch House = Spouse. Please correct
me if I'm wrong.
--
Janet Sate
Syntegra, Brighton The opinions voiced here are mine and mine alone
Larry Horn
sa...@btcs.bt.co.uk (Janet Sate) writes:
>
>In article <2olqns$a...@nntp2.stanford.edu>,
>Marc Alan Holloway <holl...@leland.Stanford.EDU> wrote:
>>Does anyone know of a comprehensive list of Cockney rhyming slang?
>>
>some stuff deleted
>
>I don't know of a comprehensive list - there must be books of them -
>but I can add a few of my favourite ones, some of them are more modern
>than others.
>
>This is my first posting so be gentle with me...!
>
>Going for a Ruby = Ruby Murray = Going for a curry
>Put on your titfer = Tit for Tat = hat
>My old China = China Plate = mate
>My brand new whistle = Whistle and Flute = suit
>A bad case of Chalfonts = Chalfont St Giles (a town in Home Counties)
>= Piles (ie haemorrhoids)
>
Try "A Dictionary of Rhyming Slang", compiled by Julian Franklyn. London:
Routledge & Kegan Paul, 1961.
>One Cockney one which has always puzzled me is 'My old Dutch' meaning your
>other half which I think comes from Dutch House = Spouse. Please correct
>me if I'm wrong.
>--
>Janet Sate
>Syntegra, Brighton The opinions voiced here are mine and mine alone
Slang and its Analogues (reprinted by Arno Press in 1970), lists well over a
dozen anti-Dutch slurs, dating back to the 17th century herring wars between
Holland and England. Among them are some still around (Dutch treat, Dutch
uncle), some that have disappeared (do a Dutch 'to desert'), and some that are
moribund (Dutch courage 'pot-valiancy'). Among the dead ones, mourned by
few, are "Dutch-wife" for a bolster, and "Dutch clock" for a bedpan OR a wife.
Farmer and Henley surmise that the two meanings are related, and they also
take the noun "Dutch" with the meaning 'wife' as a probable abbreviation of
"Dutch clock". "Dutch house" does not appear, although many other instances of
Cockney rhyming slang do. Oh, a Dutch widow was a prostitute. Wonder if a
comparable litany of anti-British slurs is found in 17th century Dutch.
--Larry Horn
Christopher Norton
>
>Sorry; I think you're wrong. Farmer & Henley's 7 volume Victorian compendium,
>Slang and its Analogues (reprinted by Arno Press in 1970), lists well over a
>dozen anti-Dutch slurs, dating back to the 17th century herring wars between
>Holland and England. Among them are some still around (Dutch treat, Dutch
And most appropriately for this newsgroup, talking double-Dutch :-)
Chris Norton
Peter Flynn
>In article <2olqns$a...@nntp2.stanford.edu>,
>Marc Alan Holloway <holl...@leland.Stanford.EDU> wrote:
>>Does anyone know of a comprehensive list of Cockney rhyming slang?
>>
>some stuff deleted
>This is my first posting so be gentle with me...!
Heh. On Usenet?
>Going for a Ruby = Ruby Murray = Going for a curry
etc
The more amusing ones are [un?]fortunately obscene, like having a Peking
(or a Barclay's)...
///Peter
Mastersmith Encil
In Michael Frayn's _Noises Off_, Selsdon the burglar asks himself, "When
have I ever had to go off in the middle of a job to have a Jimmy Riddle?"
From the context, I always assumed this was rhyming slang--"Jimmy Riddle"
--> "piddle." (He steps into the WC immediately after this line.)
1) Is this correct?
2) Who _was_ Jimmy Riddle? Anyone, or just a good rhyme? :-)
--Lance
Adrian Pepper
in article <1994Apr19.1...@btcs.bt.co.uk>:
>
>One Cockney one which has always puzzled me is 'My old Dutch' meaning your
>other half which I think comes from Dutch House = Spouse. Please correct
>me if I'm wrong.
My inclination'ld be to say that a cockney would not use the word
spouse, and might not even know what one was. But, although _spouse_
feels like a modern word, is actually quite old, so I could be wrong.
Anyway, impertently presented, although mildly apropos:
M Y O L D D U T C H
Words by Music by
A.C. Ingle C. Albert Chevalier
I've got a pal,
A reg'lar out an' outer,
She's a dear good old gal,
I'll tell yer all about 'er;
It's many years since fust we met,
'Er 'air was then as black as jet,
It's whiter now, but she don't fret,
Not my old gal...
Chorus:
We've been together now for forty years,
An' it don't seem a day too much,
There ain't a lady living in the land,
As I'd swap for my dear old Dutch,
There ain't a lady living in the land,
As I'd swap for my dear old Dutch.
I calls 'er Sal,
'Er proper name is Sairer,
An' yer may find a gal
As you'd consider fairer.
She ain't a' angel--she can start
A-jawing' till it makes yer smart,
She's just a _woman_, bless er' 'eart,
Is my old gal!
Sweet fine old gal,
For worlds I wouldn't lose 'er,
She's a dear good old gal,
An' that's what made me choose 'er.
She's stuck to me through thich and thin,
When luck was out, when luck was in,
Ah! wot a wife to me she's been,
An' wot a _pal_!
I see yer Sal,
Yer pretty ribbons sportin'!
Many year now, old gal,
Since them young days of courtin'
I ain't a coward, still I trust
When we've to part, as part we must,
That Death may come and take me fust
To wait...my pal!
Copyright(C) 1893 Reynolds Music (London)
So I guess we can assume it's no longer under copyright.
From the OED2:
As. (conj.) 28. Introducing a noun sentence, after say, know, think,
etc. Sometimes expanded into as that. Obs. and replaced by that; but
still common in southern[*] dialect speech, where often expanded to as
how.
[*] that is southern England, of course; I think they mean to include
neither Alabama nor Australia.
I know I will still use this when speaking colloquially, especially to
my own family, but I can't say as I hear other people use it, with the
possible exception of that last phrase only. How widespread is it?
Adrian.
Adrian Pepper
in article <16F9DD4...@YaleVM.YCC.Yale.Edu>:
>In article <1994Apr19.1...@btcs.bt.co.uk>
>sa...@btcs.bt.co.uk (Janet Sate) writes:
>
>One Cockney one which has always puzzled me is 'My old Dutch' meaning your
>other half which I think comes from Dutch House = Spouse. Please correct
>me if I'm wrong.
>
>Slang and its Analogues (reprinted by Arno Press in 1970), lists well over a
>dozen anti-Dutch slurs, dating back to the 17th century herring wars between
>Holland and England.
>Among the dead ones, mourned by
>few, are "Dutch-wife" for a bolster, and "Dutch clock" for a bedpan OR a wife.
>Farmer and Henley surmise that the two meanings are related, and they also
>take the noun "Dutch" with the meaning 'wife' as a probable abbreviation of
>"Dutch clock". "Dutch house" does not appear, although many other instances of
>Cockney rhyming slang do. Oh, a Dutch widow was a prostitute. Wonder if a
>comparable litany of anti-British slurs is found in 17th century Dutch.
The OED2 unequivocably states that the "Dutch" in "Old Dutch" is an
abbreviation of "Duchess".
Let's stick to thinks what I can do proper, shall I?
Adrian.
Disclaimer: Don't let this post make you think I have formed an
opinion. Because, after all, "duchess" in this case could be an
expansion of "Dutch".
doug marshall
Subject: Re: Cockney rhyming slang
arpe...@math.uwaterloo.ca (Adrian Pepper) replied to
sa...@btcs.bt.co.uk (Janet Sate), who wrote:
>>One Cockney one which has always puzzled me is 'My old Dutch' meaning your
>>other half which I think comes from Dutch House = Spouse. Please correct
>>me if I'm wrong.
A>My inclination'ld be to say that a cockney would not use the word
>spouse, and might not even know what one was. But, although _spouse_
>feels like a modern word, is actually quite old, so I could be wrong.
A>Anyway, impertently presented, although mildly apropos:
A> M Y O L D D U T C H
A>Words by Music by
>A.C. Ingle C. Albert Chevalier
Many thanks for the complete lyrics to that great old song.
Chevalier (1861-1923, a.k.a. Charles the Good) was known as the
coster's laureate for his popular cockney music-halls songs.
However, "Dutch" in this instance has nothing to do with spouse
or Holland. It's simply short for Duchess, a cockney colloquial
term for wife. See Brewer and other authorities.
---
QMPro 1.52 Pulchra Omnia Supra, Toronto
RoseMail 2.50 : RoseNet<=>Usenet Gateway : Rose Media 416-733-2285
doug marshall
Doug Marshall, Toronto
Ian Peter Mitchell
>
>My inclination'ld be to say that a cockney would not use the word
>spouse, and might not even know what one was. But, although _spouse_
>feels like a modern word, is actually quite old, so I could be wrong.
I have heard that is comes from either "Duchess" or "my old Ducth
clock". Though why the latter, I can't imagine... rhyming slang
mebbe??
The expression is interesting from another viewpoint: it seems to
be one of the few (the only one?) in which the descriptor "Dutch"
is used in a not-too-disparaging fashion.
Ian
--
Ian P. Mitchell, Research Analyst
Faculty of Graduate Studies
University of Calgary, Calgary, Alberta, Canada, T2N 1N4
Simon Furey
arpe...@math.uwaterloo.ca (Adrian Pepper) wrote:
> >
> >One Cockney one which has always puzzled me is 'My old Dutch' meaning your
> >other half which I think comes from Dutch House = Spouse. Please correct
> >me if I'm wrong.
>
Wrong! I think...:-)
For once, it isn't rhyming slang but simply short for "duchess", a familiar
cockney term of endearment for the wife. Don't ask me why...
Simon
--
+--------------------------------------+
+ Reality is only one person's opinion +
+--------------------------------------+
ka...@ee.pitt.edu
Kari
Clive Currie-Smith
for what its worth, my grandfather who was a port of london docker from
bermondsey, when asked by me many years ago why he always called just about
everybody he met as "me old dutch" was that it was rhyming slang for dutch
plate ie "me old mate".
cheers
--
Clive Currie-Smith
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Bruce Munro
Clive Currie-Smith <Cl...@nomanal.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>for what its worth, my grandfather who was a port of london docker from
>bermondsey, when asked by me many years ago why he always called just about
>everybody he met as "me old dutch" was that it was rhyming slang for dutch
>plate ie "me old mate".
Naah! That's "me old China", as in "china plate". Makes far more sense.
--
Bruce Munro. <B.O.C...@bnr.co.uk>
"The game is about glory. It is about doing things in style, with a
flourish, about going out and beating the other lot, not waiting for
them to die of boredom." - Danny Blanchflower
Mat Hall
Clive Currie-Smith <Cl...@nomanal.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>for what its worth, my grandfather who was a port of london docker from
>bermondsey, when asked by me many years ago why he always called just about
>everybody he met as "me old dutch" was that it was rhyming slang for dutch
>plate ie "me old mate".
If this is true, then I'm a Dutchman... It's "China plate", hence "Me
old China".
--
"Slack!"
Andrew Wong
>In article <768079...@nomanal.demon.co.uk>,
>Clive Currie-Smith <Cl...@nomanal.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>>everybody he met as "me old dutch" was that it was rhyming slang for dutch
>>plate ie "me old mate".
>
>Naah! That's "me old China", as in "china plate". Makes far more sense.
Is that the smell of a roaring fire I smell somewhere in the distance? :)
Andrew Wong "I like Chinese food...The waiters never are
-----x----- \ rude...Think of the many things they've
Compuserve: 72634, 2206 \ impress...There's Maosim, Taoism, I
Internet: ach...@bradford.ac.uk \ Ching and Chess." - Monty Python
Jackie Button
>Clive Currie-Smith <Cl...@nomanal.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>>everybody he met as "me old dutch" was that it was rhyming slang for dutch
>>plate ie "me old mate".
to which bocm...@bnr.co.uk (Bruce Munro) responds:
>Naah! That's "me old China", as in "china plate". Makes far more sense.
Am I missing something?
Rhyming slang makes SENSE?
C R Pennell
Jackie Button (jbu...@meddbs.med.miami.edu) wrote:
: Am I missing something?
: Rhyming slang makes SENSE?
This does seem unlikely. It doesn't always rhyme. My Singaporean Chinese
wife - but english-educated (i.e. educated in English, but in Singapore, these
distinctions matter here) tells me that the "rhyming slang" for Chinese
educated at her school was "helicopter". English-EDUCATED?
Richard Pennell History Nat University of Singapore
My opinions - not NUS's
Alan J Holmes
>Clive Currie-Smith <Cl...@nomanal.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>>for what its worth, my grandfather who was a port of london docker from
>>bermondsey, when asked by me many years ago why he always called just about
>>everybody he met as "me old dutch" was that it was rhyming slang for dutch
>>plate ie "me old mate".
>Naah! That's "me old China", as in "china plate". Makes far more sense.
I was under the impression that 'me old dutch' refered
specifically to a man's wife.
Regards
Alan Holmes
Mark Imisides
________________________________________________________________
In article <CpovD...@brunel.ac.uk>, Alan....@brunel.ac.uk (Alan J Holmes) wrote:
>
> I was under the impression that 'me old dutch' refered
> specifically to a man's wife.
>
No,no,no - "wife" is "cheese & kisses" (missus) or "trouble & strife."
Clive Currie-Smith
Alan....@brunel.ac.uk "Alan J Holmes" writes:
> Xref: demon alt.usage.english:5624 alt.fan.british-accent:2013
> soc.culture.british:12309
> Newsgroups: alt.usage.english,alt.fan.british-accent,soc.culture.british
> Path: nomanal.demon.co.uk!demon!bnr.co.uk!pipex!uknet!brunel!xxxxajh
> From: Alan....@brunel.ac.uk (Alan J Holmes)
> Subject: Re: Dutch (was Re: Cockney rhyming slang)
> Message-ID: <CpovD...@brunel.ac.uk>
> Organization: Brunel University, West London, UK
> References: <Apr25.064...@acs.ucalgary.ca> <
> 768079...@nomanal.demon.co.uk> <2qlriu$8...@bnsgd245.bnr.co.uk>
> Date: Thu, 12 May 1994 12:15:10 GMT
> Lines: 17
not as far as my grandfather was concerned, either he had it badly wrong, or,
everybody else has, fraid i dont know which
Farrow, Neil A.
I think the wife is "trouble and strife".
Neil
Christopher A. Lee
Duchess of Fife = wife