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Hyphenated Parenthood
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MC
Feb 14, 2012, 3:37:59 PM2/14/12
to
I notice that BrE newspapers routinely hyphenate such phrases as
"mother-of-five" and "father-of-two" not just in adjectival uses like
this:
"Mother-of-five Mary Jones was in the pub."
But also in sentences cast like this:
"Mary Jones is a mother-of-five."
My CdnE instinct would be NOT to hyphenate either, especially the
latter.
Any observations?
--
"If you can, tell me something happy."
- Marybones
"mother-of-five" and "father-of-two" not just in adjectival uses like
this:
"Mother-of-five Mary Jones was in the pub."
But also in sentences cast like this:
"Mary Jones is a mother-of-five."
My CdnE instinct would be NOT to hyphenate either, especially the
latter.
Any observations?
--
"If you can, tell me something happy."
- Marybones
James Hogg
Feb 14, 2012, 5:13:30 PM2/14/12
to
MC wrote:
> I notice that BrE newspapers routinely hyphenate such phrases as
> "mother-of-five" and "father-of-two" not just in adjectival uses like
> this:
>
> "Mother-of-five Mary Jones was in the pub."
>
> But also in sentences cast like this:
>
> "Mary Jones is a mother-of-five."
>
> My CdnE instinct would be NOT to hyphenate either, especially the
> latter.
>
> Any observations?
I would follow your instinct.
> I notice that BrE newspapers routinely hyphenate such phrases as
> "mother-of-five" and "father-of-two" not just in adjectival uses like
> this:
>
> "Mother-of-five Mary Jones was in the pub."
>
> But also in sentences cast like this:
>
> "Mary Jones is a mother-of-five."
>
> My CdnE instinct would be NOT to hyphenate either, especially the
> latter.
>
> Any observations?
--
James
Peter Moylan
Feb 14, 2012, 6:37:11 PM2/14/12
to
MC wrote:
> I notice that BrE newspapers routinely hyphenate such phrases as
> "mother-of-five" and "father-of-two" not just in adjectival uses like
> this:
>
> "Mother-of-five Mary Jones was in the pub."
>
> But also in sentences cast like this:
>
> "Mary Jones is a mother-of-five."
>
> My CdnE instinct would be NOT to hyphenate either, especially the
> latter.
>
> Any observations?
>
By me, it's normal to hyphenate when the hyphenated entity is being used
> I notice that BrE newspapers routinely hyphenate such phrases as
> "mother-of-five" and "father-of-two" not just in adjectival uses like
> this:
>
> "Mother-of-five Mary Jones was in the pub."
>
> But also in sentences cast like this:
>
> "Mary Jones is a mother-of-five."
>
> My CdnE instinct would be NOT to hyphenate either, especially the
> latter.
>
> Any observations?
>
as an adjective.
If I saw your second example, I'd be asking myself "a mother-of-five what?"
--
Peter Moylan, Newcastle, NSW, Australia. http://www.pmoylan.org
For an e-mail address, see my web page.
Adrian Bailey
Feb 14, 2012, 9:48:27 PM2/14/12
to
"MC" <cope...@mapca.inter.net> wrote in message
news:copespaz-F7934F...@news.eternal-september.org...
Adrian
news:copespaz-F7934F...@news.eternal-september.org...
>I notice that BrE newspapers routinely hyphenate such phrases as
> "mother-of-five" and "father-of-two" not just in adjectival uses like
> this:
>
> "Mother-of-five Mary Jones was in the pub."
>
> But also in sentences cast like this:
>
> "Mary Jones is a mother-of-five."
>
> My CdnE instinct would be NOT to hyphenate either, especially the
> latter.
>
> Any observations?
People make mistakes.
> "mother-of-five" and "father-of-two" not just in adjectival uses like
> this:
>
> "Mother-of-five Mary Jones was in the pub."
>
> But also in sentences cast like this:
>
> "Mary Jones is a mother-of-five."
>
> My CdnE instinct would be NOT to hyphenate either, especially the
> latter.
>
> Any observations?
Adrian
Jerry Friedman
Feb 15, 2012, 2:48:23 PM2/15/12
to
On Feb 14, 4:37 pm, Peter Moylan <inva...@peter.pmoylan.org.invalid>
wrote:
But is that how it's being used here? It looks to me like a noun
phrase--the dreaded "anarthrous nominal premodifier"--so I'd write
"Mother of five Mary Jones was in the pub." Only I'd really write
"Mary Jones, a mother of five, was in the pub."
--
Jerry Friedman
wrote:
> MC wrote:
> > I notice that BrE newspapers routinely hyphenate such phrases as
> > "mother-of-five" and "father-of-two" not just in adjectival uses like
> > this:
>
> > "Mother-of-five Mary Jones was in the pub."
>
> > But also in sentences cast like this:
>
> > "Mary Jones is a mother-of-five."
>
> > My CdnE instinct would be NOT to hyphenate either, especially the
> > latter.
>
> > Any observations?
>
> By me, it's normal to hyphenate when the hyphenated entity is being used
> as an adjective.
...
> > I notice that BrE newspapers routinely hyphenate such phrases as
> > "mother-of-five" and "father-of-two" not just in adjectival uses like
> > this:
>
> > "Mother-of-five Mary Jones was in the pub."
>
> > But also in sentences cast like this:
>
> > "Mary Jones is a mother-of-five."
>
> > My CdnE instinct would be NOT to hyphenate either, especially the
> > latter.
>
> > Any observations?
>
> By me, it's normal to hyphenate when the hyphenated entity is being used
> as an adjective.
But is that how it's being used here? It looks to me like a noun
phrase--the dreaded "anarthrous nominal premodifier"--so I'd write
"Mother of five Mary Jones was in the pub." Only I'd really write
"Mary Jones, a mother of five, was in the pub."
--
Jerry Friedman
MC
Feb 15, 2012, 2:53:37 PM2/15/12
to
In article
<3d29ea8d-1284-433f...@b23g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>,
They're hyphenating it.
> Only I'd really write "Mary Jones, a mother of five, was in the pub."
I might or might not, depending on context and flow...
<3d29ea8d-1284-433f...@b23g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>,
Jerry Friedman <jerry_f...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> On Feb 14, 4:37 pm, Peter Moylan <inva...@peter.pmoylan.org.invalid>
> wrote:
> > MC wrote:
> > > I notice that BrE newspapers routinely hyphenate such phrases as
> > > "mother-of-five" and "father-of-two" not just in adjectival uses like
> > > this:
> >
> > > "Mother-of-five Mary Jones was in the pub."
> >
> > > But also in sentences cast like this:
> >
> > > "Mary Jones is a mother-of-five."
> >
> > > My CdnE instinct would be NOT to hyphenate either, especially the
> > > latter.
> >
> > > Any observations?
> >
> > By me, it's normal to hyphenate when the hyphenated entity is being used
> > as an adjective.
> ...
>
> But is that how it's being used here? It looks to me like a noun
> phrase--the dreaded "anarthrous nominal premodifier"--so I'd write
> "Mother of five Mary Jones was in the pub."
So would I. But that's not what a *lot* of BrE news sources are doing.
> On Feb 14, 4:37 pm, Peter Moylan <inva...@peter.pmoylan.org.invalid>
> wrote:
> > MC wrote:
> > > I notice that BrE newspapers routinely hyphenate such phrases as
> > > "mother-of-five" and "father-of-two" not just in adjectival uses like
> > > this:
> >
> > > "Mother-of-five Mary Jones was in the pub."
> >
> > > But also in sentences cast like this:
> >
> > > "Mary Jones is a mother-of-five."
> >
> > > My CdnE instinct would be NOT to hyphenate either, especially the
> > > latter.
> >
> > > Any observations?
> >
> > By me, it's normal to hyphenate when the hyphenated entity is being used
> > as an adjective.
> ...
>
> But is that how it's being used here? It looks to me like a noun
> phrase--the dreaded "anarthrous nominal premodifier"--so I'd write
> "Mother of five Mary Jones was in the pub."
They're hyphenating it.
> Only I'd really write "Mary Jones, a mother of five, was in the pub."
Peter Duncanson (BrE)
Feb 15, 2012, 3:52:20 PM2/15/12
to
On Wed, 15 Feb 2012 11:48:23 -0800 (PST), Jerry Friedman
<jerry_f...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>"Mother of five Mary Jones was in the pub."
Not to be confused with:
<jerry_f...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>"Mother of five Mary Jones was in the pub."
"Mother of five Mary Joneses was in the pub."
--
Peter Duncanson, UK
(in alt.usage.english)
MC
Feb 15, 2012, 4:12:46 PM2/15/12
to
In article <en6oj7d9val6k3f35...@4ax.com>,
"Peter Duncanson (BrE)" <ma...@peterduncanson.net> wrote:
> On Wed, 15 Feb 2012 11:48:23 -0800 (PST), Jerry Friedman
> <jerry_f...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> >"Mother of five Mary Jones was in the pub."
>
> Not to be confused with:
>
> "Mother of five Mary Joneses was in the pub."
Indeed!
> On Wed, 15 Feb 2012 11:48:23 -0800 (PST), Jerry Friedman
> <jerry_f...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> >"Mother of five Mary Jones was in the pub."
>
> Not to be confused with:
>
> "Mother of five Mary Joneses was in the pub."
Mark Brader
Feb 15, 2012, 4:23:56 PM2/15/12
to
Jerry Friedman:
--
Mark Brader "Great things are not done by those
Toronto who sit down and count the cost
m...@vex.net of every thought and act." --Daniel Gooch
>>"Mother of five Mary Jones was in the pub."
Peter Duncanson:
> Not to be confused with:
> "Mother of five Mary Joneses was in the pub."
Mary A. Jone, Mary B. Jone, Mary C. Jone, Mary D. Jone, and Mary H. Jone?
> "Mother of five Mary Joneses was in the pub."
--
Mark Brader "Great things are not done by those
Toronto who sit down and count the cost
m...@vex.net of every thought and act." --Daniel Gooch
Mike Lyle
Feb 15, 2012, 5:39:25 PM2/15/12
to
used the tabu word "mother" instead of the now-standard "mum".
--
Mike.
jgharston
Feb 15, 2012, 8:08:47 PM2/15/12
to
Jerry Friedman wrote:
> so I'd write "Mother of five Mary Jones was in the pub."
No, that's saying there's some entity "five Mary Jones", of which
> so I'd write "Mother of five Mary Jones was in the pub."
there is a mother of, who is in the pub.
JGH
jgharston
Feb 15, 2012, 8:06:36 PM2/15/12
to
MC wrote:
> "Mother-of-five Mary Jones was in the pub."
> "Mother-of-five Mary Jones was in the pub."
> "Mary Jones is a mother-of-five."
> Any observations?
Yes: Argh!!!! It's "she is a mother<SPACE>of<SPACE>five", etc.
Who allows these bloddy illiterates anywhere near any
publications, etc. etc.
A prepostional adjectival phrases need to be hypenated to
cause it to be an adjective rather than a string of words.
In the postpositional position it's not an adjective, it's
a description.
Mother-of-five Mary is twenty years old.
Twenty-year-old Mary is a mother of five.
I've noticed similar increases in five-feet object
instead of five-foot object. Adjectives are singular,
not plural.
JGH
Jerry Friedman
Feb 15, 2012, 10:11:41 PM2/15/12
to
though, was that I don't like anarthrous nominal premodifiers, as in
"legendary bluesman B. B. King".)
--
Jerry Friedman
Evan Kirshenbaum
Feb 16, 2012, 2:04:02 AM2/16/12
to
--
Evan Kirshenbaum +------------------------------------
Still with HP Labs |It is one thing to be mistaken; it is
SF Bay Area (1982-) |quite another to be willfully
Chicago (1964-1982) |ignorant
| Cecil Adams
evan.kir...@gmail.com
http://www.kirshenbaum.net/
Stan Brown
Feb 16, 2012, 2:08:28 AM2/16/12
to
On Tue, 14 Feb 2012 15:37:59 -0500, MC wrote:
>
> I notice that BrE newspapers routinely hyphenate such phrases as
> "mother-of-five" and "father-of-two" not just in adjectival uses like
> this:
>
> "Mother-of-five Mary Jones was in the pub."
>
> But also in sentences cast like this:
>
> "Mary Jones is a mother-of-five."
>
> My CdnE instinct would be NOT to hyphenate either, especially the
> latter.
>
> Any observations?
The hyphens are definitely wrong in your second example.
>
> I notice that BrE newspapers routinely hyphenate such phrases as
> "mother-of-five" and "father-of-two" not just in adjectival uses like
> this:
>
> "Mother-of-five Mary Jones was in the pub."
>
> But also in sentences cast like this:
>
> "Mary Jones is a mother-of-five."
>
> My CdnE instinct would be NOT to hyphenate either, especially the
> latter.
>
> Any observations?
In the first ("mother-of-five" used as an adjective), the hyphens are
right for a multi-word adjective, but the adjective itself is
hideous. Would it really take up too much space in the newspaper to
write "Mary Jones, mother of five, was in the pub"?
--
"The difference between the /almost right/ word and the /right/ word
is ... the difference between the lightning-bug and the lightning."
--Mark Twain
Stan Brown, Tompkins County, NY, USA http://OakRoadSystems.com
R H Draney
Feb 16, 2012, 3:10:11 AM2/16/12
to
Stan Brown filted:
--
Me? Sarcastic?
Yeah, right.
>
>In the first ("mother-of-five" used as an adjective), the hyphens are
>right for a multi-word adjective, but the adjective itself is
>hideous. Would it really take up too much space in the newspaper to
>write "Mary Jones, mother of five, was in the pub"?
Just how many mother of fives do you know?...r
>In the first ("mother-of-five" used as an adjective), the hyphens are
>right for a multi-word adjective, but the adjective itself is
>hideous. Would it really take up too much space in the newspaper to
>write "Mary Jones, mother of five, was in the pub"?
--
Me? Sarcastic?
Yeah, right.
Iain Archer
Feb 16, 2012, 4:55:31 AM2/16/12
to
jgharston wrote on Wed, 15 Feb 2012
Some of us just call her Mary Mary Mary Mary Mary.
--
Iain Archer
--
Iain Archer
Peter Moylan
Feb 16, 2012, 6:02:33 AM2/16/12
to
_was_ being used as an adjective, to make it clear which of the many
Mary Joneses we were talking about. On reflection, I can see that the
writer probably did intend it to be read as a noun phrase.
That brings up another point, though. Whenever I read something like
that in a newspaper article, I am left wondering what relevance her
children, and the number of them, has to the story. The usual conclusion
is "none".
I'd love to see a follow-up sentence along the lines of "She was
accompanied by Sally Brown, a mere mother of four."
Peter Moylan
Feb 16, 2012, 6:03:22 AM2/16/12
to
MC
Feb 16, 2012, 9:48:17 AM2/16/12
to
In article <Yf-dnRGlHsXRf6HS...@westnet.com.au>,
say "36" - which is impossible if you know what I look like.
Peter Moylan <inv...@peter.pmoylan.org.invalid> wrote:
> That brings up another point, though. Whenever I read something like
> that in a newspaper article, I am left wondering what relevance her
> children, and the number of them, has to the story. The usual conclusion
> is "none".
Similarly, their ages... Whenever I'm asked for my aged by a reporter I
> That brings up another point, though. Whenever I read something like
> that in a newspaper article, I am left wondering what relevance her
> children, and the number of them, has to the story. The usual conclusion
> is "none".
say "36" - which is impossible if you know what I look like.
MC
Feb 16, 2012, 9:52:28 AM2/16/12
to
In article <copespaz-4DDAC2...@news.eternal-september.org>,
with beards? "Bearded" is automatic, "mustachioed" and "clean-shaven"
never get a look-in.
MC <cope...@mapca.inter.net> wrote:
> In article <Yf-dnRGlHsXRf6HS...@westnet.com.au>,
> Peter Moylan <inv...@peter.pmoylan.org.invalid> wrote:
>
> > That brings up another point, though. Whenever I read something like
> > that in a newspaper article, I am left wondering what relevance her
> > children, and the number of them, has to the story. The usual conclusion
> > is "none".
>
> Similarly, their ages... Whenever I'm asked for my aged by a reporter I
> say "36" - which is impossible if you know what I look like.
Also... Why do newspaper stories describe the facial hair only of men
> In article <Yf-dnRGlHsXRf6HS...@westnet.com.au>,
> Peter Moylan <inv...@peter.pmoylan.org.invalid> wrote:
>
> > That brings up another point, though. Whenever I read something like
> > that in a newspaper article, I am left wondering what relevance her
> > children, and the number of them, has to the story. The usual conclusion
> > is "none".
>
> Similarly, their ages... Whenever I'm asked for my aged by a reporter I
> say "36" - which is impossible if you know what I look like.
with beards? "Bearded" is automatic, "mustachioed" and "clean-shaven"
never get a look-in.
Jerry Friedman
Feb 16, 2012, 9:55:34 AM2/16/12
to
--
Jerry Friedman
Nick Spalding
Feb 16, 2012, 10:08:09 AM2/16/12
to
MC wrote, in
<copespaz-4DDAC2...@news.eternal-september.org>
on Thu, 16 Feb 2012 09:48:17 -0500:
>In article <Yf-dnRGlHsXRf6HS...@westnet.com.au>,
> Peter Moylan <inv...@peter.pmoylan.org.invalid> wrote:
>
>> That brings up another point, though. Whenever I read something like
>> that in a newspaper article, I am left wondering what relevance her
>> children, and the number of them, has to the story. The usual conclusion
>> is "none".
>
>Similarly, their ages... Whenever I'm asked for my aged by a reporter I
>say "36" - which is impossible if you know what I look like.
How often does that happen? I don't think I have ever been asked
anything by a reporter.
--
Nick Spalding
BrE/IrE
<copespaz-4DDAC2...@news.eternal-september.org>
on Thu, 16 Feb 2012 09:48:17 -0500:
>In article <Yf-dnRGlHsXRf6HS...@westnet.com.au>,
> Peter Moylan <inv...@peter.pmoylan.org.invalid> wrote:
>
>> That brings up another point, though. Whenever I read something like
>> that in a newspaper article, I am left wondering what relevance her
>> children, and the number of them, has to the story. The usual conclusion
>> is "none".
>
>Similarly, their ages... Whenever I'm asked for my aged by a reporter I
>say "36" - which is impossible if you know what I look like.
anything by a reporter.
--
Nick Spalding
BrE/IrE
Jerry Friedman
Feb 16, 2012, 9:54:10 AM2/16/12
to
On Feb 16, 7:48 am, MC <copes...@mapca.inter.net> wrote:
> In article <Yf-dnRGlHsXRf6HSnZ2dnUVZ8t2dn...@westnet.com.au>,
home mother".
> Similarly, their ages...
True, although I think the idea may be that a mere five characters
helps a lot in giving the reader a picture of the person.
> Whenever I'm asked for my aged by a reporter I
> say "36" - which is impossible if you know what I look like.
Whenever I'm asked for my age by a reporter, I... reporters interview
you? Must be nice.
--
Jerry Friedman
> In article <Yf-dnRGlHsXRf6HSnZ2dnUVZ8t2dn...@westnet.com.au>,
> Peter Moylan <inva...@peter.pmoylan.org.invalid> wrote:
>
> > That brings up another point, though. Whenever I read something like
> > that in a newspaper article, I am left wondering what relevance her
> > children, and the number of them, has to the story. The usual conclusion
> > is "none".
I have the same feeling, but I wonder whether it's a code for "stay-at-
>
> > That brings up another point, though. Whenever I read something like
> > that in a newspaper article, I am left wondering what relevance her
> > children, and the number of them, has to the story. The usual conclusion
> > is "none".
home mother".
> Similarly, their ages...
True, although I think the idea may be that a mere five characters
helps a lot in giving the reader a picture of the person.
> Whenever I'm asked for my aged by a reporter I
> say "36" - which is impossible if you know what I look like.
you? Must be nice.
--
Jerry Friedman
MC
Feb 16, 2012, 10:27:22 AM2/16/12
to
In article
<d54da674-e3e7-4bbd...@h6g2000yqk.googlegroups.com>,
Rarely. They always - without exception - misquote me or get some detail
wrong.
<d54da674-e3e7-4bbd...@h6g2000yqk.googlegroups.com>,
wrong.
MC
Feb 16, 2012, 10:28:02 AM2/16/12
to
In article <gt6qj750aptecmr41...@4ax.com>,
Nick Spalding <spal...@iol.ie> wrote:
> >Similarly, their ages... Whenever I'm asked for my aged by a reporter I
> >say "36" - which is impossible if you know what I look like.
>
> How often does that happen? I don't think I have ever been asked
> anything by a reporter.
These days not very often - about once or twice a year.
> >Similarly, their ages... Whenever I'm asked for my aged by a reporter I
> >say "36" - which is impossible if you know what I look like.
>
> How often does that happen? I don't think I have ever been asked
> anything by a reporter.
Skitt
Feb 16, 2012, 4:54:38 PM2/16/12
to
MC wrote:
> Jerry Friedman wrote:
--
Skitt (SF Bay Area)
http://come.to/skitt
> Jerry Friedman wrote:
>> MC wrote:
>>> Whenever I'm asked for my aged by a reporter I
>>> say "36" - which is impossible if you know what I look like.
>>
>> Whenever I'm asked for my age by a reporter, I... reporters interview
>> you? Must be nice.
>
> Rarely. They always - without exception - misquote me or get some detail
> wrong.
>
That's their job -- to make things more interesting.
>>> Whenever I'm asked for my aged by a reporter I
>>> say "36" - which is impossible if you know what I look like.
>>
>> Whenever I'm asked for my age by a reporter, I... reporters interview
>> you? Must be nice.
>
> Rarely. They always - without exception - misquote me or get some detail
> wrong.
>
--
Skitt (SF Bay Area)
http://come.to/skitt
Jerry Friedman
Feb 16, 2012, 6:03:45 PM2/16/12
to
> <d54da674-e3e7-4bbd-a7d6-375249034...@h6g2000yqk.googlegroups.com>,
> > > Whenever I'm asked for my aged by a reporter I
> > > say "36" - which is impossible if you know what I look like.
>
> > Whenever I'm asked for my age by a reporter, I... reporters interview
> > you? Must be nice.
>
> Rarely. They always - without exception - misquote me or get some detail
> wrong.
I see you're a "media personality" as well as a writer.
I have to say that though my local weekly gets things wrong, the one
time they talked to me they did a fine job.
--
Jerry Friedman
> Jerry Friedman <jerry_fried...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > On Feb 16, 7:48 am, MC <copes...@mapca.inter.net> wrote:
...
> > On Feb 16, 7:48 am, MC <copes...@mapca.inter.net> wrote:
> > > Whenever I'm asked for my aged by a reporter I
> > > say "36" - which is impossible if you know what I look like.
>
> > Whenever I'm asked for my age by a reporter, I... reporters interview
> > you? Must be nice.
>
> Rarely. They always - without exception - misquote me or get some detail
> wrong.
I have to say that though my local weekly gets things wrong, the one
time they talked to me they did a fine job.
--
Jerry Friedman
Robert Bannister
Feb 16, 2012, 8:24:16 PM2/16/12
to
wrong with "A mother of five, Mary Jones, was in the pub". I am even
happy with "Mother of five" or "Legendary bluesman" without the article,
but the comma does matter.
--
Robert Bannister
Robert Bannister
Feb 16, 2012, 8:28:11 PM2/16/12
to
On 16/02/12 10:48 PM, MC wrote:
> In article<Yf-dnRGlHsXRf6HS...@westnet.com.au>,
> Peter Moylan<inv...@peter.pmoylan.org.invalid> wrote:
>
>> That brings up another point, though. Whenever I read something like
>> that in a newspaper article, I am left wondering what relevance her
>> children, and the number of them, has to the story. The usual conclusion
>> is "none".
>
> Similarly, their ages... Whenever I'm asked for my aged by a reporter I
> say "36" - which is impossible if you know what I look like.
>
Worse if you should happen to have a well-known parent, spouse or child
> In article<Yf-dnRGlHsXRf6HS...@westnet.com.au>,
> Peter Moylan<inv...@peter.pmoylan.org.invalid> wrote:
>
>> That brings up another point, though. Whenever I read something like
>> that in a newspaper article, I am left wondering what relevance her
>> children, and the number of them, has to the story. The usual conclusion
>> is "none".
>
> Similarly, their ages... Whenever I'm asked for my aged by a reporter I
> say "36" - which is impossible if you know what I look like.
>
- "Mugs Magwort, second cousin to famous rock star Hope Lesvoyce, was
arrested on a drugs charge yesterday". (I left out the "aged 64").
--
Robert Bannister
Steve Hayes
Feb 16, 2012, 9:13:29 PM2/16/12
to
On Fri, 17 Feb 2012 09:24:16 +0800, Robert Bannister <rob...@bigpond.com>
wrote:
>There is such a thing as a noun phrase in apposition. I see nothing
>wrong with "A mother of five, Mary Jones, was in the pub". I am even
>happy with "Mother of five" or "Legendary bluesman" without the article,
>but the comma does matter.
As in "Prime Minister, Edward Heath's father..."
--
Steve Hayes from Tshwane, South Africa
Blog: http://khanya.wordpress.com
E-mail - see web page, or parse: shayes at dunelm full stop org full stop uk
wrote:
>There is such a thing as a noun phrase in apposition. I see nothing
>wrong with "A mother of five, Mary Jones, was in the pub". I am even
>happy with "Mother of five" or "Legendary bluesman" without the article,
>but the comma does matter.
--
Steve Hayes from Tshwane, South Africa
Blog: http://khanya.wordpress.com
E-mail - see web page, or parse: shayes at dunelm full stop org full stop uk
R H Draney
Feb 16, 2012, 10:10:08 PM2/16/12
to
Robert Bannister filted:
>
>On 16/02/12 11:11 AM, Jerry Friedman wrote:
>> On Feb 15, 6:08 pm, jgharston<j...@arcade.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>>> Jerry Friedman wrote:
>>>> so I'd write "Mother of five Mary Jones was in the pub."
>>>
>>> No, that's saying there's some entity "five Mary Jones", of which
>>> there is a mother of, who is in the pub.
>>
>> Maybe that's one reason I wouldn't really write it. (The main reason,
>> though, was that I don't like anarthrous nominal premodifiers, as in
>> "legendary bluesman B. B. King".)
>
>On 16/02/12 11:11 AM, Jerry Friedman wrote:
>> On Feb 15, 6:08 pm, jgharston<j...@arcade.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>>> Jerry Friedman wrote:
>>>> so I'd write "Mother of five Mary Jones was in the pub."
>>>
>>> No, that's saying there's some entity "five Mary Jones", of which
>>> there is a mother of, who is in the pub.
>>
>> Maybe that's one reason I wouldn't really write it. (The main reason,
>> though, was that I don't like anarthrous nominal premodifiers, as in
>> "legendary bluesman B. B. King".)
>
>There is such a thing as a noun phrase in apposition. I see nothing
>wrong with "A mother of five, Mary Jones, was in the pub". I am even
>happy with "Mother of five" or "Legendary bluesman" without the article,
>but the comma does matter.
Uncle of four R H Draney agrees....r
>wrong with "A mother of five, Mary Jones, was in the pub". I am even
>happy with "Mother of five" or "Legendary bluesman" without the article,
>but the comma does matter.
Steve Hayes
Feb 16, 2012, 11:20:35 PM2/16/12
to
On 16 Feb 2012 19:10:08 -0800, R H Draney <dado...@spamcop.net> wrote:
>Uncle of four R H Draney agrees....r
<Applause>
>Uncle of four R H Draney agrees....r
Evan Kirshenbaum
Feb 17, 2012, 1:13:20 AM2/17/12
to
MC <cope...@mapca.inter.net> writes:
> Also... Why do newspaper stories describe the facial hair only of
> men with beards? "Bearded" is automatic, "mustachioed" and
> "clean-shaven" never get a look-in.
Sure they do. The _NY Times_ archive, which goes through 2008, has 14
> Also... Why do newspaper stories describe the facial hair only of
> men with beards? "Bearded" is automatic, "mustachioed" and
> "clean-shaven" never get a look-in.
hits for "mustachioed" in 2008, ending with
Abu Safa al Tikriti, a mustachioed former officer in Saddam
Hussein's army and a member of the tribe that dominates the
dictator's hometown. [9/21/2008]
There are 21 hits in 2007, 26 in 2006, 29 in 2005, and so on.
Normally, I'd guess that as with "bearded", the facial hair has to be
somewhat significant (either large or unexpected for some reason) to
warrant being used. Somebody with a handlebar mustache, for example,
would probably get that description more often than not.
--
Evan Kirshenbaum +------------------------------------
Still with HP Labs |To express oneself
SF Bay Area (1982-) |In seventeen syllables
Chicago (1964-1982) |Is very diffic
| Tony Finch
evan.kir...@gmail.com
http://www.kirshenbaum.net/
ke...@cam.ac.uk
Feb 17, 2012, 5:05:53 AM2/17/12
to
>How often does that happen? I don't think I have ever been asked
>anything by a reporter.
I was interviewed on a train en route to King's Cross last summer by a
>anything by a reporter.
reporter who wanted to know whether I was looking forward to the changes
being made to KX. As I had very little clue what they were, I think I only
said that I supposed they were unlikely to make it worse.
They published an enthusiastic comment from me, along with a picture and my
age. Whilst it might have been marginally relevant to know whether I was 20 or
60, the picture was quite adequate evidence for that..........
Katy
MC
Feb 17, 2012, 11:00:27 AM2/17/12
to
In article <ty2qas...@gmail.com>,
Evan Kirshenbaum <evan.kir...@gmail.com> wrote:
> MC <cope...@mapca.inter.net> writes:
>
> > Also... Why do newspaper stories describe the facial hair only of
> > men with beards? "Bearded" is automatic, "mustachioed" and
> > "clean-shaven" never get a look-in.
>
> Sure they do. The _NY Times_ archive, which goes through 2008, has 14
> hits for "mustachioed" in 2008, ending with
>
> Abu Safa al Tikriti, a mustachioed former officer in Saddam
> Hussein's army and a member of the tribe that dominates the
> dictator's hometown. [9/21/2008]
>
> There are 21 hits in 2007, 26 in 2006, 29 in 2005, and so on.
>
> Normally, I'd guess that as with "bearded", the facial hair has to be
> somewhat significant (either large or unexpected for some reason) to
> warrant being used. Somebody with a handlebar mustache, for example,
> would probably get that description more often than not.
I stand (sit, really) corrected!
> MC <cope...@mapca.inter.net> writes:
>
> > Also... Why do newspaper stories describe the facial hair only of
> > men with beards? "Bearded" is automatic, "mustachioed" and
> > "clean-shaven" never get a look-in.
>
> Sure they do. The _NY Times_ archive, which goes through 2008, has 14
> hits for "mustachioed" in 2008, ending with
>
> Abu Safa al Tikriti, a mustachioed former officer in Saddam
> Hussein's army and a member of the tribe that dominates the
> dictator's hometown. [9/21/2008]
>
> There are 21 hits in 2007, 26 in 2006, 29 in 2005, and so on.
>
> Normally, I'd guess that as with "bearded", the facial hair has to be
> somewhat significant (either large or unexpected for some reason) to
> warrant being used. Somebody with a handlebar mustache, for example,
> would probably get that description more often than not.
Mike Lyle
Feb 17, 2012, 3:16:12 PM2/17/12
to
On Thu, 16 Feb 2012 09:52:28 -0500, MC <cope...@mapca.inter.net>
seems to be one of the words they reserve for foreigners or other
people they don't want you to take totally seriously. I've griped
about this pernicious habit of my fellow NUJ members here before, but
not with ref to facial hair. Cf "gun-toting", "shades", etc.
--
Mike.
wrote:
>In article <copespaz-4DDAC2...@news.eternal-september.org>,
> MC <cope...@mapca.inter.net> wrote:
>
>> In article <Yf-dnRGlHsXRf6HS...@westnet.com.au>,
>> Peter Moylan <inv...@peter.pmoylan.org.invalid> wrote:
>>
>> > That brings up another point, though. Whenever I read something like
>> > that in a newspaper article, I am left wondering what relevance her
>> > children, and the number of them, has to the story. The usual conclusion
>> > is "none".
>>
>> Similarly, their ages... Whenever I'm asked for my aged by a reporter I
>> say "36" - which is impossible if you know what I look like.
>
>Also... Why do newspaper stories describe the facial hair only of men
>with beards? "Bearded" is automatic, "mustachioed" and "clean-shaven"
>never get a look-in.
Actually, British journos do use "moustachioed" (variously spelt): it
>In article <copespaz-4DDAC2...@news.eternal-september.org>,
> MC <cope...@mapca.inter.net> wrote:
>
>> In article <Yf-dnRGlHsXRf6HS...@westnet.com.au>,
>> Peter Moylan <inv...@peter.pmoylan.org.invalid> wrote:
>>
>> > That brings up another point, though. Whenever I read something like
>> > that in a newspaper article, I am left wondering what relevance her
>> > children, and the number of them, has to the story. The usual conclusion
>> > is "none".
>>
>> Similarly, their ages... Whenever I'm asked for my aged by a reporter I
>> say "36" - which is impossible if you know what I look like.
>
>Also... Why do newspaper stories describe the facial hair only of men
>with beards? "Bearded" is automatic, "mustachioed" and "clean-shaven"
>never get a look-in.
seems to be one of the words they reserve for foreigners or other
people they don't want you to take totally seriously. I've griped
about this pernicious habit of my fellow NUJ members here before, but
not with ref to facial hair. Cf "gun-toting", "shades", etc.
--
Mike.
Robert Bannister
Feb 17, 2012, 6:02:53 PM2/17/12
to
On 17/02/12 2:13 PM, Evan Kirshenbaum wrote:
> MC<cope...@mapca.inter.net> writes:
>
>> Also... Why do newspaper stories describe the facial hair only of
>> men with beards? "Bearded" is automatic, "mustachioed" and
>> "clean-shaven" never get a look-in.
>
> Sure they do. The _NY Times_ archive, which goes through 2008, has 14
> hits for "mustachioed" in 2008, ending with
>
> Abu Safa al Tikriti, a mustachioed former officer in Saddam
> Hussein's army and a member of the tribe that dominates the
> dictator's hometown. [9/21/2008]
>
> There are 21 hits in 2007, 26 in 2006, 29 in 2005, and so on.
>
> Normally, I'd guess that as with "bearded", the facial hair has to be
> somewhat significant (either large or unexpected for some reason) to
> warrant being used. Somebody with a handlebar mustache, for example,
> would probably get that description more often than not.
>
But surely the point is that the writer assumes that "bearded" and
> MC<cope...@mapca.inter.net> writes:
>
>> Also... Why do newspaper stories describe the facial hair only of
>> men with beards? "Bearded" is automatic, "mustachioed" and
>> "clean-shaven" never get a look-in.
>
> Sure they do. The _NY Times_ archive, which goes through 2008, has 14
> hits for "mustachioed" in 2008, ending with
>
> Abu Safa al Tikriti, a mustachioed former officer in Saddam
> Hussein's army and a member of the tribe that dominates the
> dictator's hometown. [9/21/2008]
>
> There are 21 hits in 2007, 26 in 2006, 29 in 2005, and so on.
>
> Normally, I'd guess that as with "bearded", the facial hair has to be
> somewhat significant (either large or unexpected for some reason) to
> warrant being used. Somebody with a handlebar mustache, for example,
> would probably get that description more often than not.
>
"moustachioed" indicate "suspicious, tricky, sly, hippy, weird", while
"clean-shaven" means (to the writer) "wholesome, honest, clean-living,
trustworthy"?
--
Robert Bannister
MC
Feb 17, 2012, 6:26:29 PM2/17/12
to
In article <9q84l0...@mid.individual.net>,
Except it's rare that "clean-shaven" gets a mention - in fact I'd hazard
a guess you only see it when someone who is known to be bearded shaves
it off. Otherwise it's unremarkable and unremarked-upon.
a guess you only see it when someone who is known to be bearded shaves
it off. Otherwise it's unremarkable and unremarked-upon.
R H Draney
Feb 17, 2012, 10:52:27 PM2/17/12
to
Robert Bannister filted:
I wonder what the world makes of us sideburned fellows....r
Snidely
Feb 17, 2012, 11:20:04 PM2/17/12
to
R H Draney pretended :
Generals or cardsharps.
/dps
/dps
LFS
Feb 18, 2012, 2:26:51 AM2/18/12
to
of the discussion, I can't imagine an interview in which I would think
it appropriate to volunteer that information.
--
Laura
(emulate St. George for email)
tony cooper
Feb 18, 2012, 10:18:58 AM2/18/12
to
earlier this year. He asked my name and age, and I gave both. It
never occurred to me to withhold my age. I don't think it would occur
to most men. Women view the question differently.
My interview must have ended up on the cutting room floor because the
resulting article did not contain them. The interviewees were all
ordinary citizens stopped by the reporter at an event, and the issue
was a local one.
--
Tony Cooper - Orlando, Florida
micky
Feb 18, 2012, 1:58:47 PM2/18/12
to
On Tue, 14 Feb 2012 15:37:59 -0500, MC <cope...@mapca.inter.net>
wrote:
>I notice that BrE newspapers routinely hyphenate such phrases as
>"mother-of-five" and "father-of-two" not just in adjectival uses like
>this:
>
>"Mother-of-five Mary Jones was in the pub."
>
>But also in sentences cast like this:
>
>"Mary Jones is a mother-of-five."
This looks like a bunch-of-baloney.
>
>My CdnE instinct would be NOT to hyphenate either, especially the
>latter.
>
>Any observations?
wrote:
>I notice that BrE newspapers routinely hyphenate such phrases as
>"mother-of-five" and "father-of-two" not just in adjectival uses like
>this:
>
>"Mother-of-five Mary Jones was in the pub."
>
>But also in sentences cast like this:
>
>"Mary Jones is a mother-of-five."
This looks like a bunch-of-baloney.
>
>My CdnE instinct would be NOT to hyphenate either, especially the
>latter.
>
>Any observations?
MC
Feb 18, 2012, 3:01:16 PM2/18/12
to
In article <k6tvj71ev53gvsu36...@4ax.com>,
bunch of baloney?
Here are a couple of examples:
http://snipurl.com/229su4r [www_timesandstar_co_uk]
http://snipurl.com/229sugh [www_dailymail_co_uk]
micky <NONONO...@bigfoot.com> wrote:
> On Tue, 14 Feb 2012 15:37:59 -0500, MC <cope...@mapca.inter.net>
> wrote:
>
> >I notice that BrE newspapers routinely hyphenate such phrases as
> >"mother-of-five" and "father-of-two" not just in adjectival uses like
> >this:
> >
> >"Mother-of-five Mary Jones was in the pub."
> >
> >But also in sentences cast like this:
> >
> >"Mary Jones is a mother-of-five."
>
> This looks like a bunch-of-baloney.
The usage is a bunch of baloney, or the observation that they do it is a
> On Tue, 14 Feb 2012 15:37:59 -0500, MC <cope...@mapca.inter.net>
> wrote:
>
> >I notice that BrE newspapers routinely hyphenate such phrases as
> >"mother-of-five" and "father-of-two" not just in adjectival uses like
> >this:
> >
> >"Mother-of-five Mary Jones was in the pub."
> >
> >But also in sentences cast like this:
> >
> >"Mary Jones is a mother-of-five."
>
> This looks like a bunch-of-baloney.
bunch of baloney?
Here are a couple of examples:
http://snipurl.com/229su4r [www_timesandstar_co_uk]
http://snipurl.com/229sugh [www_dailymail_co_uk]
Steve Hayes
Feb 18, 2012, 11:35:08 PM2/18/12
to
On Sat, 18 Feb 2012 13:58:47 -0500, micky <NONONO...@bigfoot.com> wrote:
>On Tue, 14 Feb 2012 15:37:59 -0500, MC <cope...@mapca.inter.net>
>wrote:
>
>>I notice that BrE newspapers routinely hyphenate such phrases as
>>"mother-of-five" and "father-of-two" not just in adjectival uses like
>>this:
>>
>>"Mother-of-five Mary Jones was in the pub."
>>
>>But also in sentences cast like this:
>>
>>"Mary Jones is a mother-of-five."
>
>This looks like a bunch-of-baloney.
Doed baloney naturally grow in bunches, or does it have to be specially
>On Tue, 14 Feb 2012 15:37:59 -0500, MC <cope...@mapca.inter.net>
>wrote:
>
>>I notice that BrE newspapers routinely hyphenate such phrases as
>>"mother-of-five" and "father-of-two" not just in adjectival uses like
>>this:
>>
>>"Mother-of-five Mary Jones was in the pub."
>>
>>But also in sentences cast like this:
>>
>>"Mary Jones is a mother-of-five."
>
>This looks like a bunch-of-baloney.
packed?
R H Draney
Feb 18, 2012, 11:42:37 PM2/18/12
to
Steve Hayes filted:
"crock"....r
>
>On Sat, 18 Feb 2012 13:58:47 -0500, micky <NONONO...@bigfoot.com> wrote:
>>
>>This looks like a bunch-of-baloney.
>
>Doed baloney naturally grow in bunches, or does it have to be specially
>packed?
It's my understanding that the collective term of venery for baloney is
>On Sat, 18 Feb 2012 13:58:47 -0500, micky <NONONO...@bigfoot.com> wrote:
>>
>>This looks like a bunch-of-baloney.
>
>Doed baloney naturally grow in bunches, or does it have to be specially
>packed?
"crock"....r
LFS
Feb 19, 2012, 2:12:11 AM2/19/12
to
how it would be relevant to a press interview of that nature.
Peter Duncanson (BrE)
Feb 19, 2012, 9:23:56 AM2/19/12
to
On Sun, 19 Feb 2012 07:12:11 +0000, LFS
In the case of asking about a political issue, as Tony was, age might
have some relevance: "Of the people interviewed, the majority of those
under 30 said they agreed, the majority of those between 30 and 60
disagreed, and the over-60s were more evenly divided".
--
Peter Duncanson, UK
(in alt.usage.english)
have some relevance: "Of the people interviewed, the majority of those
under 30 said they agreed, the majority of those between 30 and 60
disagreed, and the over-60s were more evenly divided".
--
Peter Duncanson, UK
(in alt.usage.english)
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