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Marius Hancu
Mar 23, 2014, 8:53:42 AM3/23/14
to
Hello:
~~~
[Men meeting in a pub]
I sit there, watching the old clock, up behind the bar. Thos. Slattery,
Clockmaker, Southwark. The bottles racked up like organ pipes.
Graham Swift, Last Orders
~~~
"Thos." : I guess this is "Thomas." Valid in both BrE and AmE?
--
Marius Hancu
~~~
[Men meeting in a pub]
I sit there, watching the old clock, up behind the bar. Thos. Slattery,
Clockmaker, Southwark. The bottles racked up like organ pipes.
Graham Swift, Last Orders
~~~
"Thos." : I guess this is "Thomas." Valid in both BrE and AmE?
--
Marius Hancu
Guy Barry
Mar 23, 2014, 9:00:03 AM3/23/14
to
"Marius Hancu" wrote in message news:lgmlgn$d4j$1...@speranza.aioe.org...
Very old-fashioned in BrE. You might see the abbreviation in the names of
some long-established companies, e.g.:
http://www.thosfurberandco.ltd.uk/
Not used now otherwise. There were other similar abbreviations of proper
names like "Wm." for "William".
--
Guy Barry
some long-established companies, e.g.:
http://www.thosfurberandco.ltd.uk/
Not used now otherwise. There were other similar abbreviations of proper
names like "Wm." for "William".
--
Guy Barry
Peter Young
Mar 23, 2014, 9:28:28 AM3/23/14
to
Peter.
--
Peter Young, (BrE, RP), Consultant Anaesthetist, 1975-2004.
(US equivalent: Certified Anesthesiologist) (AUE W)
Cheltenham and Gloucester, UK. Now happily retired.
http://pnyoung.orpheusweb.co.uk
Athel Cornish-Bowden
Mar 23, 2014, 10:05:28 AM3/23/14
to
On 2014-03-23 13:28:28 +0000, Peter Young said:
> On 23 Mar 2014 Marius Hancu <marius...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Hello:
>
>> ~~~
>> [Men meeting in a pub]
>
>> I sit there, watching the old clock, up behind the bar. Thos. Slattery,
>> Clockmaker, Southwark. The bottles racked up like organ pipes.
>
>> Graham Swift, Last Orders
>> ~~~
>
>> "Thos." : I guess this is "Thomas." Valid in both BrE and AmE?
>
> Rather archaic BrE.
Like Jno., Jas., Wm. and others. Even in P. G. Wodehouse's day it was
> On 23 Mar 2014 Marius Hancu <marius...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Hello:
>
>> ~~~
>> [Men meeting in a pub]
>
>> I sit there, watching the old clock, up behind the bar. Thos. Slattery,
>> Clockmaker, Southwark. The bottles racked up like organ pipes.
>
>> Graham Swift, Last Orders
>> ~~~
>
>> "Thos." : I guess this is "Thomas." Valid in both BrE and AmE?
>
> Rather archaic BrE.
regarded as old-fashioned and mainly used with signatures to business
letters (along with inst. and ult.) in the bodies of such letters).
--
athel
Peter T. Daniels
Mar 23, 2014, 10:21:58 AM3/23/14
to
On Sunday, March 23, 2014 8:53:42 AM UTC-4, Marius Hancu wrote:
> I sit there, watching the old clock, up behind the bar. Thos. Slattery,
> Clockmaker, Southwark. The bottles racked up like organ pipes.
> Graham Swift, Last Orders
> ~~~
> "Thos." : I guess this is "Thomas." Valid in both BrE and AmE?
What does "valid" mean? If it's Slattery's trademark, then it's what
> I sit there, watching the old clock, up behind the bar. Thos. Slattery,
> Clockmaker, Southwark. The bottles racked up like organ pipes.
> Graham Swift, Last Orders
> ~~~
> "Thos." : I guess this is "Thomas." Valid in both BrE and AmE?
appears on their clockfaces.
Guy Barry
Mar 23, 2014, 10:30:11 AM3/23/14
to
"Peter T. Daniels" wrote in message
news:c7439e6a-8c1e-4a24...@googlegroups.com...
I think Marius means "would companies in the US at one time have used
similar abbreviations in their trademarks?"
--
Guy Barry
news:c7439e6a-8c1e-4a24...@googlegroups.com...
similar abbreviations in their trademarks?"
--
Guy Barry
James Silverton
Mar 23, 2014, 11:17:46 AM3/23/14
to
to also include my wife's name, I was listed in the directory as Jas.
Silverton. Over the years, this seems to have become Jas without the
period. I still get junk mail addressed to "Jas Silverton". However,
this forewarns me that it is junk.
--
Jim Silverton (Potomac, MD)
Extraneous "not." in Reply To.
Horace LaBadie
Mar 23, 2014, 11:30:38 AM3/23/14
to
In article <lgmlgn$d4j$1...@speranza.aioe.org>,
Google automatically converts a search for Thos. Jefferson to Thomas
Jefferson.
And then there is this:
"Thos. Jefferson, Slavemaster"
<http://www.pbs.org/saf/1301/segments/1301-3.htm>
Speaking of clocks, Seth Thos. is still used to refer to Seth Thomas
clocks.
<http://www.liveauctioneers.com/item/1641511>
Jefferson.
And then there is this:
"Thos. Jefferson, Slavemaster"
<http://www.pbs.org/saf/1301/segments/1301-3.htm>
Speaking of clocks, Seth Thos. is still used to refer to Seth Thomas
clocks.
<http://www.liveauctioneers.com/item/1641511>
Guy Barry
Mar 23, 2014, 11:33:07 AM3/23/14
to
"James Silverton" wrote in message news:lgmtui$s0l$1...@dont-email.me...
only one letter shorter? (If you include the full stop, it's the same
length.)
http://hughw36.blogspot.co.uk/2006/03/what-is-jno-short-for.html
Many of them seem more trouble than they're worth, but I suppose space was
at a premium in those days.
--
Guy Barry
>
>On 3/23/2014 10:05 AM, Athel Cornish-Bowden wrote:
>> Like Jno., Jas., Wm. and others. Even in P. G. Wodehouse's day it was
>> regarded as old-fashioned and mainly used with signatures to business
>> letters (along with inst. and ult.) in the bodies of such letters).
How did "John" get shortened to "Jno."? More importantly, why when it's
>On 3/23/2014 10:05 AM, Athel Cornish-Bowden wrote:
>> Like Jno., Jas., Wm. and others. Even in P. G. Wodehouse's day it was
>> regarded as old-fashioned and mainly used with signatures to business
>> letters (along with inst. and ult.) in the bodies of such letters).
only one letter shorter? (If you include the full stop, it's the same
length.)
>
>Fifty years ago, I obtained a telephone in a new city. Because of space, to
>also include my wife's name, I was listed in the directory as Jas.
>Silverton. Over the years, this seems to have become Jas without the
>period. I still get junk mail addressed to "Jas Silverton". However, this
>forewarns me that it is junk.
Here's a list of some of the abbrevations that were commonly in use:
>Fifty years ago, I obtained a telephone in a new city. Because of space, to
>also include my wife's name, I was listed in the directory as Jas.
>Silverton. Over the years, this seems to have become Jas without the
>period. I still get junk mail addressed to "Jas Silverton". However, this
>forewarns me that it is junk.
http://hughw36.blogspot.co.uk/2006/03/what-is-jno-short-for.html
Many of them seem more trouble than they're worth, but I suppose space was
at a premium in those days.
--
Guy Barry
Marius Hancu
Mar 23, 2014, 3:03:13 PM3/23/14
to
--
Marius Hancu
Steve Hayes
Mar 23, 2014, 10:45:01 PM3/23/14
to
On Sun, 23 Mar 2014 08:53:42 -0400, Marius Hancu <marius...@gmail.com>
wrote:
In context, yes.
It clearly refers to the name of the clockmnaker who made that particular
clock and put his name on it thus.
But the practise of abbreviating names (as opposed to giving nicknames) seems
to have died out after the 19th century.
So if one were referring to the person, rather than to the name as it appeared
on the clock, one might say Thomas Slattery or Tom Slattery, but not Thos.
Slattery.
--
Steve Hayes from Tshwane, South Africa
Web: http://www.khanya.org.za/stevesig.htm
Blog: http://khanya.wordpress.com
E-mail - see web page, or parse: shayes at dunelm full stop org full stop uk
wrote:
It clearly refers to the name of the clockmnaker who made that particular
clock and put his name on it thus.
But the practise of abbreviating names (as opposed to giving nicknames) seems
to have died out after the 19th century.
So if one were referring to the person, rather than to the name as it appeared
on the clock, one might say Thomas Slattery or Tom Slattery, but not Thos.
Slattery.
--
Steve Hayes from Tshwane, South Africa
Web: http://www.khanya.org.za/stevesig.htm
Blog: http://khanya.wordpress.com
E-mail - see web page, or parse: shayes at dunelm full stop org full stop uk
Marius Hancu
Mar 23, 2014, 11:36:39 PM3/23/14
to
--
Marius Hancu
Peter T. Daniels
Mar 23, 2014, 11:55:42 PM3/23/14
to
On Sunday, March 23, 2014 10:45:01 PM UTC-4, Steve Hayes wrote:
> It clearly refers to the name of the clockmnaker who made that particular
> clock and put his name on it thus.
>
> But the practise of abbreviating names (as opposed to giving nicknames) seems
> to have died out after the 19th century.
>
> So if one were referring to the person, rather than to the name as it appeared
> on the clock, one might say Thomas Slattery or Tom Slattery, but not Thos.
> Slattery.
Except that some Charleses go by "Chas" or even "Chaz."
> It clearly refers to the name of the clockmnaker who made that particular
> clock and put his name on it thus.
>
> But the practise of abbreviating names (as opposed to giving nicknames) seems
> to have died out after the 19th century.
>
> So if one were referring to the person, rather than to the name as it appeared
> on the clock, one might say Thomas Slattery or Tom Slattery, but not Thos.
> Slattery.
charles
Mar 24, 2014, 12:52:19 AM3/24/14
to
In article <d95a2f78-9d8e-45db...@googlegroups.com>, Peter
I don't. It's "Charles"
--
From KT24
Using a RISC OS computer running v5.18
--
From KT24
Using a RISC OS computer running v5.18
Mark Brader
Mar 24, 2014, 1:45:19 AM3/24/14
to
Guy Barry:
> How did "John" get shortened to "Jno."? More importantly, why...?
--
Mark Brader, Toronto | "My pasta, what stop does it close down to?"
m...@vex.net | --Lee Ayrton
> How did "John" get shortened to "Jno."? More importantly, why...?
> (If you include the full stop, it's the same length.)
Not when you're writing it by hand, it isn't.
--
Mark Brader, Toronto | "My pasta, what stop does it close down to?"
m...@vex.net | --Lee Ayrton
Steve Hayes
Mar 24, 2014, 7:05:40 AM3/24/14
to
Peter Moylan
Mar 24, 2014, 7:25:57 AM3/24/14
to
On 24/03/14 02:33, Guy Barry wrote:
> "James Silverton" wrote in message news:lgmtui$s0l$1...@dont-email.me...
>>
>> On 3/23/2014 10:05 AM, Athel Cornish-Bowden wrote:
>
>>> Like Jno., Jas., Wm. and others. Even in P. G. Wodehouse's day it was
>>> regarded as old-fashioned and mainly used with signatures to business
>>> letters (along with inst. and ult.) in the bodies of such letters).
>
> How did "John" get shortened to "Jno."? More importantly, why when it's
> only one letter shorter? (If you include the full stop, it's the same
> length.)
As far as I know "Jno." is not an abbreviation for "John". It stands for
> "James Silverton" wrote in message news:lgmtui$s0l$1...@dont-email.me...
>>
>> On 3/23/2014 10:05 AM, Athel Cornish-Bowden wrote:
>
>>> Like Jno., Jas., Wm. and others. Even in P. G. Wodehouse's day it was
>>> regarded as old-fashioned and mainly used with signatures to business
>>> letters (along with inst. and ult.) in the bodies of such letters).
>
> How did "John" get shortened to "Jno."? More importantly, why when it's
> only one letter shorter? (If you include the full stop, it's the same
> length.)
"Jonathan".
--
Peter Moylan, Newcastle, NSW, Australia. http://www.pmoylan.org
For an e-mail address, see my web page.
Guy Barry
Mar 24, 2014, 8:32:46 AM3/24/14
to
"Peter Moylan" wrote in message news:53301645$1...@dnews.tpgi.com.au...
"Jonathan/Jonathon":
http://www.woodgate.org/FAQs/socgbrit.html#FAQ12
Also see the following , founded by one John Williams:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jno._Williams,_Inc.
--
Guy Barry
>
>On 24/03/14 02:33, Guy Barry wrote:
>> "James Silverton" wrote in message news:lgmtui$s0l$1...@dont-email.me...
>>>
>>> On 3/23/2014 10:05 AM, Athel Cornish-Bowden wrote:
>>
>>>> Like Jno., Jas., Wm. and others. Even in P. G. Wodehouse's day it was
>>>> regarded as old-fashioned and mainly used with signatures to business
>>>> letters (along with inst. and ult.) in the bodies of such letters).
>>
>> How did "John" get shortened to "Jno."? More importantly, why when it's
>> only one letter shorter? (If you include the full stop, it's the same
>> length.)
>
>As far as I know "Jno." is not an abbreviation for "John". It stands for
>"Jonathan".
The soc.genealogy.britain FAQ says "John", with "Jonth" for
>On 24/03/14 02:33, Guy Barry wrote:
>> "James Silverton" wrote in message news:lgmtui$s0l$1...@dont-email.me...
>>>
>>> On 3/23/2014 10:05 AM, Athel Cornish-Bowden wrote:
>>
>>>> Like Jno., Jas., Wm. and others. Even in P. G. Wodehouse's day it was
>>>> regarded as old-fashioned and mainly used with signatures to business
>>>> letters (along with inst. and ult.) in the bodies of such letters).
>>
>> How did "John" get shortened to "Jno."? More importantly, why when it's
>> only one letter shorter? (If you include the full stop, it's the same
>> length.)
>
>As far as I know "Jno." is not an abbreviation for "John". It stands for
>"Jonathan".
"Jonathan/Jonathon":
http://www.woodgate.org/FAQs/socgbrit.html#FAQ12
Also see the following , founded by one John Williams:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jno._Williams,_Inc.
--
Guy Barry
Peter T. Daniels
Mar 24, 2014, 8:46:20 AM3/24/14
to
X" from "there exists an X."
Peter T. Daniels
Mar 24, 2014, 8:47:59 AM3/24/14
to
On Monday, March 24, 2014 7:05:40 AM UTC-4, Steve Hayes wrote:
> On Sun, 23 Mar 2014 20:55:42 -0700 (PDT), "Peter T. Daniels"
> <gram...@verizon.net> wrote:
> >On Sunday, March 23, 2014 10:45:01 PM UTC-4, Steve Hayes wrote:
> >> So if one were referring to the person, rather than to the name as it
> >> appeared on the clock, one might say Thomas Slattery or Tom Slattery, but
> >> not Thos. Slattery.
> >Except that some Charleses go by "Chas" or even "Chaz."
> What happened to Chuck?
Doesn't look to me like an abbreviation.
> On Sun, 23 Mar 2014 20:55:42 -0700 (PDT), "Peter T. Daniels"
> <gram...@verizon.net> wrote:
> >On Sunday, March 23, 2014 10:45:01 PM UTC-4, Steve Hayes wrote:
> >> So if one were referring to the person, rather than to the name as it
> >> appeared on the clock, one might say Thomas Slattery or Tom Slattery, but
> >> not Thos. Slattery.
> >Except that some Charleses go by "Chas" or even "Chaz."
> What happened to Chuck?
Guy Barry
Mar 24, 2014, 8:56:33 AM3/24/14
to
"Peter T. Daniels" wrote in message
news:03a05f30-a0e9-405c...@googlegroups.com...
rest, the abbreviation "Chas." has come to serve as a nickname as well.
--
Guy Barry
spuorg...@gowanhill.com
Mar 24, 2014, 10:53:06 AM3/24/14
to
Steve Hayes wrote:
> But the practise of abbreviating names (as opposed to giving nicknames) seems
> to have died out after the 19th century.
A popular beat combo in the 1980s went by the name of Bros.
> But the practise of abbreviating names (as opposed to giving nicknames) seems
> to have died out after the 19th century.
Owain
James Hogg
Mar 24, 2014, 11:07:15 AM3/24/14
to
Peter Moylan wrote:
> On 24/03/14 02:33, Guy Barry wrote:
>> "James Silverton" wrote in message news:lgmtui$s0l$1...@dont-email.me...
>>> On 3/23/2014 10:05 AM, Athel Cornish-Bowden wrote:
>>>> Like Jno., Jas., Wm. and others. Even in P. G. Wodehouse's day it was
>>>> regarded as old-fashioned and mainly used with signatures to business
>>>> letters (along with inst. and ult.) in the bodies of such letters).
>> How did "John" get shortened to "Jno."? More importantly, why when it's
>> only one letter shorter? (If you include the full stop, it's the same
>> length.)
>
> As far as I know "Jno." is not an abbreviation for "John". It stands for
> "Jonathan".
It is (or was) John all right. Every genealogist has to learn this.
> On 24/03/14 02:33, Guy Barry wrote:
>> "James Silverton" wrote in message news:lgmtui$s0l$1...@dont-email.me...
>>> On 3/23/2014 10:05 AM, Athel Cornish-Bowden wrote:
>>>> Like Jno., Jas., Wm. and others. Even in P. G. Wodehouse's day it was
>>>> regarded as old-fashioned and mainly used with signatures to business
>>>> letters (along with inst. and ult.) in the bodies of such letters).
>> How did "John" get shortened to "Jno."? More importantly, why when it's
>> only one letter shorter? (If you include the full stop, it's the same
>> length.)
>
> As far as I know "Jno." is not an abbreviation for "John". It stands for
> "Jonathan".
--
James
Joe Fineman
Mar 24, 2014, 5:46:31 PM3/24/14
to
Steve Hayes <haye...@telkomsa.net> writes:
> On Sun, 23 Mar 2014 08:53:42 -0400, Marius Hancu
> <marius...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>"Thos." : I guess this is "Thomas." Valid in both BrE and AmE?
> On Sun, 23 Mar 2014 08:53:42 -0400, Marius Hancu
> <marius...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>"Thos." : I guess this is "Thomas." Valid in both BrE and AmE?
> But the practise of abbreviating names (as opposed to giving
> nicknames) seems to have died out after the 19th century.
Here is a 20th-century instance (referring, admittedly, to a
> nicknames) seems to have died out after the 19th century.
19th-century Thomas):
The Muses cried: 'To you we give
The crown of rhymsters' bay, Thos'.
Thos mused and thought that it might pay
To ladle out the pay-thos. -- Martin Fagg, "Elegy on Thomas Hood"
--
--- Joe Fineman jo...@verizon.net
||: People on horses look better than they are. People in cars :||
||: look worse than they are. :||
Robert Bannister
Mar 24, 2014, 11:22:26 PM3/24/14
to
--
Robert Bannister - 1940-71 SE England
1972-now W Australia
Steve Hayes
Mar 25, 2014, 12:25:27 AM3/25/14
to
On Mon, 24 Mar 2014 22:25:57 +1100, Peter Moylan <pe...@pmoylan.org.invalid>
wrote:
>On 24/03/14 02:33, Guy Barry wrote:
>> "James Silverton" wrote in message news:lgmtui$s0l$1...@dont-email.me...
>>>
>>> On 3/23/2014 10:05 AM, Athel Cornish-Bowden wrote:
>>
>>>> Like Jno., Jas., Wm. and others. Even in P. G. Wodehouse's day it was
>>>> regarded as old-fashioned and mainly used with signatures to business
>>>> letters (along with inst. and ult.) in the bodies of such letters).
>>
>> How did "John" get shortened to "Jno."? More importantly, why when it's
>> only one letter shorter? (If you include the full stop, it's the same
>> length.)
>
>As far as I know "Jno." is not an abbreviation for "John". It stands for
>"Jonathan".
A surprisingly common misapprehension, but wrong, whong, wrongity wrong.
wrote:
>On 24/03/14 02:33, Guy Barry wrote:
>> "James Silverton" wrote in message news:lgmtui$s0l$1...@dont-email.me...
>>>
>>> On 3/23/2014 10:05 AM, Athel Cornish-Bowden wrote:
>>
>>>> Like Jno., Jas., Wm. and others. Even in P. G. Wodehouse's day it was
>>>> regarded as old-fashioned and mainly used with signatures to business
>>>> letters (along with inst. and ult.) in the bodies of such letters).
>>
>> How did "John" get shortened to "Jno."? More importantly, why when it's
>> only one letter shorter? (If you include the full stop, it's the same
>> length.)
>
>As far as I know "Jno." is not an abbreviation for "John". It stands for
>"Jonathan".
Steve Hayes
Mar 25, 2014, 12:27:54 AM3/25/14
to
On Mon, 24 Mar 2014 05:47:59 -0700 (PDT), "Peter T. Daniels"
He was last heard of somewhere in Ireland, and I believe the late Nick
Spalding may have had some contact with him.
<gram...@verizon.net> wrote:
>On Monday, March 24, 2014 7:05:40 AM UTC-4, Steve Hayes wrote:
>> On Sun, 23 Mar 2014 20:55:42 -0700 (PDT), "Peter T. Daniels"
>> <gram...@verizon.net> wrote:
>> >On Sunday, March 23, 2014 10:45:01 PM UTC-4, Steve Hayes wrote:
>
>> >> So if one were referring to the person, rather than to the name as it
>> >> appeared on the clock, one might say Thomas Slattery or Tom Slattery, but
>> >> not Thos. Slattery.
>> >Except that some Charleses go by "Chas" or even "Chaz."
>> What happened to Chuck?
>
>Doesn't look to me like an abbreviation.
No, it was a question prompted by the discussion.
>On Monday, March 24, 2014 7:05:40 AM UTC-4, Steve Hayes wrote:
>> On Sun, 23 Mar 2014 20:55:42 -0700 (PDT), "Peter T. Daniels"
>> <gram...@verizon.net> wrote:
>> >On Sunday, March 23, 2014 10:45:01 PM UTC-4, Steve Hayes wrote:
>
>> >> So if one were referring to the person, rather than to the name as it
>> >> appeared on the clock, one might say Thomas Slattery or Tom Slattery, but
>> >> not Thos. Slattery.
>> >Except that some Charleses go by "Chas" or even "Chaz."
>> What happened to Chuck?
>
>Doesn't look to me like an abbreviation.
He was last heard of somewhere in Ireland, and I believe the late Nick
Spalding may have had some contact with him.
![Peter Duncanson [BrE]'s profile photo](http://lh3.googleusercontent.com/a-/ALV-UjU1GGYFBCZgBCNB-pRgkosMu-ej0qpnECw3jc8uGYOTiF8a=s40-c)
Peter Duncanson [BrE]
Mar 25, 2014, 6:38:38 AM3/25/14
to
On Tue, 25 Mar 2014 06:27:54 +0200, Steve Hayes <haye...@telkomsa.net>
wrote:
>On Mon, 24 Mar 2014 05:47:59 -0700 (PDT), "Peter T. Daniels"
><gram...@verizon.net> wrote:
>
>>On Monday, March 24, 2014 7:05:40 AM UTC-4, Steve Hayes wrote:
>>> On Sun, 23 Mar 2014 20:55:42 -0700 (PDT), "Peter T. Daniels"
>>> <gram...@verizon.net> wrote:
>>> >On Sunday, March 23, 2014 10:45:01 PM UTC-4, Steve Hayes wrote:
>>
>>> >> So if one were referring to the person, rather than to the name as it
>>> >> appeared on the clock, one might say Thomas Slattery or Tom Slattery, but
>>> >> not Thos. Slattery.
>>> >Except that some Charleses go by "Chas" or even "Chaz."
>>> What happened to Chuck?
>>
>>Doesn't look to me like an abbreviation.
>
>No, it was a question prompted by the discussion.
>
>He was last heard of somewhere in Ireland, and I believe the late Nick
>Spalding may have had some contact with him.
There was a possible sighting of him in the US, somewhere in New
England, his home territory.
--
Peter Duncanson, UK
(in alt.usage.english)
wrote:
>On Mon, 24 Mar 2014 05:47:59 -0700 (PDT), "Peter T. Daniels"
><gram...@verizon.net> wrote:
>
>>On Monday, March 24, 2014 7:05:40 AM UTC-4, Steve Hayes wrote:
>>> On Sun, 23 Mar 2014 20:55:42 -0700 (PDT), "Peter T. Daniels"
>>> <gram...@verizon.net> wrote:
>>> >On Sunday, March 23, 2014 10:45:01 PM UTC-4, Steve Hayes wrote:
>>
>>> >> So if one were referring to the person, rather than to the name as it
>>> >> appeared on the clock, one might say Thomas Slattery or Tom Slattery, but
>>> >> not Thos. Slattery.
>>> >Except that some Charleses go by "Chas" or even "Chaz."
>>> What happened to Chuck?
>>
>>Doesn't look to me like an abbreviation.
>
>No, it was a question prompted by the discussion.
>
>He was last heard of somewhere in Ireland, and I believe the late Nick
>Spalding may have had some contact with him.
England, his home territory.
--
Peter Duncanson, UK
(in alt.usage.english)
Peter T. Daniels
Mar 25, 2014, 9:46:24 AM3/25/14
to
Peter T. Daniels
Mar 25, 2014, 9:49:40 AM3/25/14
to
On Tuesday, March 25, 2014 12:27:54 AM UTC-4, Steve Hayes wrote:
> On Mon, 24 Mar 2014 05:47:59 -0700 (PDT), "Peter T. Daniels"
> <gram...@verizon.net> wrote:
> >On Monday, March 24, 2014 7:05:40 AM UTC-4, Steve Hayes wrote:
> >> What happened to Chuck?
> >Doesn't look to me like an abbreviation.
>
> No, it was a question prompted by the discussion.
> He was last heard of somewhere in Ireland, and I believe the late Nick
> Spalding may have had some contact with him.
Ah. If you're referring to past AUEers, what happened to John Briggs?
> On Mon, 24 Mar 2014 05:47:59 -0700 (PDT), "Peter T. Daniels"
> <gram...@verizon.net> wrote:
> >On Monday, March 24, 2014 7:05:40 AM UTC-4, Steve Hayes wrote:
> >> What happened to Chuck?
> >Doesn't look to me like an abbreviation.
>
> No, it was a question prompted by the discussion.
> He was last heard of somewhere in Ireland, and I believe the late Nick
> Spalding may have had some contact with him.
Jerry Friedman
Mar 25, 2014, 10:52:15 AM3/25/14
to
who have heard the band say which is more appropriate. In my country it
would rhyme with "those". In the '90s there was a much, much less
well-known band here in northern New Mexico called "the Bros" or "Los Bros".
(I'd write "the Beatles" but "Los Lonely Boys". Likewise "the Hague"
but "Los Angeles".)
--
Jerry Friedman
Guy Barry
Mar 25, 2014, 10:28:11 AM3/25/14
to
"Jerry Friedman" wrote in message news:lgs1n2$8un$1...@news.albasani.net...
long-established menswear firm in this country called "Moss Bros".
Generally speaking the abbreviation "Bros" would have been spoken aloud as
"Brothers", but for obvious reasons "Moss Bros" was always "Moss Bross" and
the pronunciation spread.
Also the names of the brothers in Bros were Matt and Luke Goss. There may
have been an implicit pun on "Goss Bros".
--
Guy Barry
>
>On 3/24/14 7:53 AM, spuorg...@gowanhill.com wrote:
>> Steve Hayes wrote:
>>> But the practise of abbreviating names (as opposed to giving nicknames)
>>> seems
>>> to have died out after the 19th century.
>>
>> A popular beat combo in the 1980s went by the name of Bros.
>
>Which Wikipedia tells me rhymes with "boss" or "toss"--I'll let those who
>have heard the band say which is more appropriate.
It does. I presume the pronunciation came about because of a
>On 3/24/14 7:53 AM, spuorg...@gowanhill.com wrote:
>> Steve Hayes wrote:
>>> But the practise of abbreviating names (as opposed to giving nicknames)
>>> seems
>>> to have died out after the 19th century.
>>
>> A popular beat combo in the 1980s went by the name of Bros.
>
>Which Wikipedia tells me rhymes with "boss" or "toss"--I'll let those who
>have heard the band say which is more appropriate.
long-established menswear firm in this country called "Moss Bros".
Generally speaking the abbreviation "Bros" would have been spoken aloud as
"Brothers", but for obvious reasons "Moss Bros" was always "Moss Bross" and
the pronunciation spread.
Also the names of the brothers in Bros were Matt and Luke Goss. There may
have been an implicit pun on "Goss Bros".
--
Guy Barry
Jack Campin
Mar 25, 2014, 11:07:40 AM3/25/14
to
>>> A popular beat combo in the 1980s went by the name of Bros.
>> Which Wikipedia tells me rhymes with "boss" or "toss"--I'll let
>> those who have heard the band say which is more appropriate.
> It does. I presume the pronunciation came about because of a
> long-established menswear firm in this country called "Moss Bros".
> Generally speaking the abbreviation "Bros" would have been spoken
> aloud as "Brothers", but for obvious reasons "Moss Bros" was always
> "Moss Bross" and the pronunciation spread.
It didn't spread to me. On the few occasions when I've mentioned
>> Which Wikipedia tells me rhymes with "boss" or "toss"--I'll let
>> those who have heard the band say which is more appropriate.
> It does. I presume the pronunciation came about because of a
> long-established menswear firm in this country called "Moss Bros".
> Generally speaking the abbreviation "Bros" would have been spoken
> aloud as "Brothers", but for obvious reasons "Moss Bros" was always
> "Moss Bross" and the pronunciation spread.
them it was as "Moss Brothers".
(I went inside one of their shops, once, when they had a sale on.
Even at 10% of the original price they didn't have a single thing
I'd have wanted to wear).
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
e m a i l : j a c k @ c a m p i n . m e . u k
Jack Campin, 11 Third Street, Newtongrange, Midlothian EH22 4PU, Scotland
mobile 07800 739 557 <http://www.campin.me.uk> Twitter: JackCampin
Guy Barry
Mar 25, 2014, 11:16:29 AM3/25/14
to
"Jack Campin" wrote in message
news:bogus-4921DA....@four.schnuerpel.eu...
German spy with otherwise faultless English was caught when heard referring
to "Moss Brothers".
--
Guy Barry
news:bogus-4921DA....@four.schnuerpel.eu...
>
> Guy Barry wrote:
>> Generally speaking the abbreviation "Bros" would have been spoken
>> aloud as "Brothers", but for obvious reasons "Moss Bros" was always
>> "Moss Bross" and the pronunciation spread.
>
>It didn't spread to me. On the few occasions when I've mentioned
>them it was as "Moss Brothers".
Really? I've heard a story (probably apocryphal) that during World War II a
> Guy Barry wrote:
>> Generally speaking the abbreviation "Bros" would have been spoken
>> aloud as "Brothers", but for obvious reasons "Moss Bros" was always
>> "Moss Bross" and the pronunciation spread.
>
>It didn't spread to me. On the few occasions when I've mentioned
>them it was as "Moss Brothers".
German spy with otherwise faultless English was caught when heard referring
to "Moss Brothers".
--
Guy Barry
charles
Mar 25, 2014, 11:14:34 AM3/25/14
to
In article <bogus-4921DA....@four.schnuerpel.eu>,
anglicisation.
Jack Campin <bo...@purr.demon.co.uk> wrote:
> >>> A popular beat combo in the 1980s went by the name of Bros.
> >> Which Wikipedia tells me rhymes with "boss" or "toss"--I'll let
> >> those who have heard the band say which is more appropriate.
> > It does. I presume the pronunciation came about because of a
> > long-established menswear firm in this country called "Moss Bros".
> > Generally speaking the abbreviation "Bros" would have been spoken
> > aloud as "Brothers", but for obvious reasons "Moss Bros" was always
> > "Moss Bross" and the pronunciation spread.
> It didn't spread to me. On the few occasions when I've mentioned
> them it was as "Moss Brothers".
but, to be accurate is was "Moses Brothers" - 'Moss' was very much an
> >>> A popular beat combo in the 1980s went by the name of Bros.
> >> Which Wikipedia tells me rhymes with "boss" or "toss"--I'll let
> >> those who have heard the band say which is more appropriate.
> > It does. I presume the pronunciation came about because of a
> > long-established menswear firm in this country called "Moss Bros".
> > Generally speaking the abbreviation "Bros" would have been spoken
> > aloud as "Brothers", but for obvious reasons "Moss Bros" was always
> > "Moss Bross" and the pronunciation spread.
> It didn't spread to me. On the few occasions when I've mentioned
> them it was as "Moss Brothers".
anglicisation.
Guy Barry
Mar 25, 2014, 11:25:48 AM3/25/14
to
"charles" wrote in message
news:53edfae1...@charleshope.demon.co.uk...
Moss:
http://www.moss.co.uk/aboutus
In 1894 he died, leaving the business to his sons Alfred and George. They
were the "Moss brothers".
--
Guy Barry
--
Guy Barry
news:53edfae1...@charleshope.demon.co.uk...
>> Guy Barry wrote:
>> > It does. I presume the pronunciation came about because of a
>> > long-established menswear firm in this country called "Moss Bros".
>> > Generally speaking the abbreviation "Bros" would have been spoken
>> > aloud as "Brothers", but for obvious reasons "Moss Bros" was always
>> > "Moss Bross" and the pronunciation spread.
>
>> It didn't spread to me. On the few occasions when I've mentioned
>> them it was as "Moss Brothers".
>
>but, to be accurate is was "Moses Brothers" - 'Moss' was very much an
>anglicisation.
I'm afraid you're wrong there. The founder of the company was one Moses
>> > It does. I presume the pronunciation came about because of a
>> > long-established menswear firm in this country called "Moss Bros".
>> > Generally speaking the abbreviation "Bros" would have been spoken
>> > aloud as "Brothers", but for obvious reasons "Moss Bros" was always
>> > "Moss Bross" and the pronunciation spread.
>
>> It didn't spread to me. On the few occasions when I've mentioned
>> them it was as "Moss Brothers".
>
>but, to be accurate is was "Moses Brothers" - 'Moss' was very much an
>anglicisation.
Moss:
http://www.moss.co.uk/aboutus
In 1894 he died, leaving the business to his sons Alfred and George. They
were the "Moss brothers".
--
Guy Barry
--
Guy Barry
Peter Duncanson [BrE]
Mar 25, 2014, 11:35:06 AM3/25/14
to
that that his ancestral surname was Moses.
James Silverton
Mar 25, 2014, 12:03:42 PM3/25/14
to
general were ones where often companies were owned by Jewish people in
Britain.
--
Jim Silverton (Potomac, MD)
Extraneous "not." in Reply To.
Steve Hayes
Mar 25, 2014, 3:06:22 PM3/25/14
to
On Tue, 25 Mar 2014 06:49:40 -0700 (PDT), "Peter T. Daniels"
<gram...@verizon.net> wrote:
>On Tuesday, March 25, 2014 12:27:54 AM UTC-4, Steve Hayes wrote:
>> On Mon, 24 Mar 2014 05:47:59 -0700 (PDT), "Peter T. Daniels"
>> <gram...@verizon.net> wrote:
>> >On Monday, March 24, 2014 7:05:40 AM UTC-4, Steve Hayes wrote:
>
>> >> What happened to Chuck?
>> >Doesn't look to me like an abbreviation.
>>
>> No, it was a question prompted by the discussion.
>> He was last heard of somewhere in Ireland, and I believe the late Nick
>> Spalding may have had some contact with him.
>
>Ah. If you're referring to past AUEers, what happened to John Briggs?
Computer crash. He said he'd be back.
>On Tuesday, March 25, 2014 12:27:54 AM UTC-4, Steve Hayes wrote:
>> On Mon, 24 Mar 2014 05:47:59 -0700 (PDT), "Peter T. Daniels"
>> <gram...@verizon.net> wrote:
>> >On Monday, March 24, 2014 7:05:40 AM UTC-4, Steve Hayes wrote:
>
>> >> What happened to Chuck?
>> >Doesn't look to me like an abbreviation.
>>
>> No, it was a question prompted by the discussion.
>> He was last heard of somewhere in Ireland, and I believe the late Nick
>> Spalding may have had some contact with him.
>
>Ah. If you're referring to past AUEers, what happened to John Briggs?
Robert Bannister
Mar 25, 2014, 7:05:57 PM3/25/14
to
On 25/03/2014 12:25 pm, Steve Hayes wrote:
> On Mon, 24 Mar 2014 22:25:57 +1100, Peter Moylan <pe...@pmoylan.org.invalid>
> wrote:
>
>> On 24/03/14 02:33, Guy Barry wrote:
>>> "James Silverton" wrote in message news:lgmtui$s0l$1...@dont-email.me...
>>>>
>>>> On 3/23/2014 10:05 AM, Athel Cornish-Bowden wrote:
>>>
>>>>> Like Jno., Jas., Wm. and others. Even in P. G. Wodehouse's day it was
>>>>> regarded as old-fashioned and mainly used with signatures to business
>>>>> letters (along with inst. and ult.) in the bodies of such letters).
>>>
>>> How did "John" get shortened to "Jno."? More importantly, why when it's
>>> only one letter shorter? (If you include the full stop, it's the same
>>> length.)
>>
>> As far as I know "Jno." is not an abbreviation for "John". It stands for
>> "Jonathan".
>
> A surprisingly common misapprehension, but wrong, whong, wrongity wrong.
It is also wrong that Jack is a diminutive of John, but that is how it's
> On Mon, 24 Mar 2014 22:25:57 +1100, Peter Moylan <pe...@pmoylan.org.invalid>
> wrote:
>
>> On 24/03/14 02:33, Guy Barry wrote:
>>> "James Silverton" wrote in message news:lgmtui$s0l$1...@dont-email.me...
>>>>
>>>> On 3/23/2014 10:05 AM, Athel Cornish-Bowden wrote:
>>>
>>>>> Like Jno., Jas., Wm. and others. Even in P. G. Wodehouse's day it was
>>>>> regarded as old-fashioned and mainly used with signatures to business
>>>>> letters (along with inst. and ult.) in the bodies of such letters).
>>>
>>> How did "John" get shortened to "Jno."? More importantly, why when it's
>>> only one letter shorter? (If you include the full stop, it's the same
>>> length.)
>>
>> As far as I know "Jno." is not an abbreviation for "John". It stands for
>> "Jonathan".
>
> A surprisingly common misapprehension, but wrong, whong, wrongity wrong.
been used for centuries.
Robert Bannister
Mar 25, 2014, 7:07:39 PM3/25/14
to
rhyming name Moss Bros.
Steve Hayes
Mar 26, 2014, 1:03:11 AM3/26/14
to
On Wed, 26 Mar 2014 07:05:57 +0800, Robert Bannister <rob...@clubtelco.com>
wrote:
But Jno hasn't been used as an abbreviation for Jonathan for centuries, though
it was widely used as an abbreviation for John in the 19th century, and
earlier, when writing materials (eg parchment) were expensive.
I think it was mainly in the 19th century that people used such abbreviations
in their signatures. My great great grandfather used to sign his name Jno B.
Cottam, but his name was John, not Jonathan.
wrote:
it was widely used as an abbreviation for John in the 19th century, and
earlier, when writing materials (eg parchment) were expensive.
I think it was mainly in the 19th century that people used such abbreviations
in their signatures. My great great grandfather used to sign his name Jno B.
Cottam, but his name was John, not Jonathan.
James Hogg
Mar 26, 2014, 3:18:33 AM3/26/14
to
John (Jankin, Jackin, etc.) in "The Pedigree of Jack and of Various
Allied Names", 1892.
--
James
Guy Barry
Mar 26, 2014, 5:19:12 AM3/26/14
to
"Robert Bannister" wrote in message
news:bpeghr...@mid.individual.net...
>There is or was a well-known suit hire firm in London known by its rhyming
>name Moss Bros.
Still very much in existence (see my other posts on the subject). And it's
a national chain, not just London.
http://www.moss.co.uk/
--
Guy Barry
news:bpeghr...@mid.individual.net...
>There is or was a well-known suit hire firm in London known by its rhyming
>name Moss Bros.
a national chain, not just London.
http://www.moss.co.uk/
--
Guy Barry
CDB
Mar 26, 2014, 9:31:17 AM3/26/14
to
On 25/03/2014 9:46 AM, Peter T. Daniels wrote:
> Robert Bannister wrote:
like the Gaelic form "Tearlach".
> Robert Bannister wrote:
>> Peter T. Daniels wrote:
>>> Steve Hayes wrote:
>>>> But the practise of abbreviating names (as opposed to giving
>>>> nicknames) seems to have died out after the 19th century. So
>>>> if one were referring to the person, rather than to the name
>>>> as it appeared on the clock, one might say Thomas Slattery or
>>>> Tom Slattery, but not Thos. Slattery.
>>> Except that some Charleses go by "Chas" or even "Chaz."
>> And others go by the longer "Charley/Charlie".
> Again, not an abbreviation.
It looks like a diminutive, but I believe that it sounds a good deal
>>> Steve Hayes wrote:
>>>> But the practise of abbreviating names (as opposed to giving
>>>> nicknames) seems to have died out after the 19th century. So
>>>> if one were referring to the person, rather than to the name
>>>> as it appeared on the clock, one might say Thomas Slattery or
>>>> Tom Slattery, but not Thos. Slattery.
>>> Except that some Charleses go by "Chas" or even "Chaz."
>> And others go by the longer "Charley/Charlie".
> Again, not an abbreviation.
like the Gaelic form "Tearlach".
Robert Bannister
Mar 26, 2014, 7:45:48 PM3/26/14
to
war that encouraged them to spread out:
"With the outbreak of World War Two in September 1939, most of the Hire
Department went into storage, and once again the Military Department came
into its own. The priority was to set up provincial outlets. Following
branches
in Manchester, Edinburgh, York and Bristol in 1939, Moss Bros opened the
following year in Portsmouth with the naval business in mind."
As far as I can make out, major expansion didn't take place till the 1990s.
Guy Barry
Mar 27, 2014, 4:43:43 AM3/27/14
to
"Robert Bannister" wrote in message
news:bph75e...@mid.individual.net...
>
>On 26/03/2014 5:19 pm, Guy Barry wrote:
>> "Robert Bannister" wrote in message
>> news:bpeghr...@mid.individual.net...
>>
>>> There is or was a well-known suit hire firm in London known by its
>>> rhyming name Moss Bros.
>>
>> Still very much in existence (see my other posts on the subject). And
>> it's a national chain, not just London.
>>
>> http://www.moss.co.uk/
>>
>
>A recent development: they started in Covent Garden. Apparently, it was war
>that encouraged them to spread out:
>
>"With the outbreak of World War Two in September 1939 [...]"
>On 26/03/2014 5:19 pm, Guy Barry wrote:
>> "Robert Bannister" wrote in message
>> news:bpeghr...@mid.individual.net...
>>
>>> There is or was a well-known suit hire firm in London known by its
>>> rhyming name Moss Bros.
>>
>> Still very much in existence (see my other posts on the subject). And
>> it's a national chain, not just London.
>>
>> http://www.moss.co.uk/
>>
>
>A recent development: they started in Covent Garden. Apparently, it was war
>that encouraged them to spread out:
>
Even by the standards of this group you have a strange definition of
"recent".
--
Guy Barry
Robert Bannister
Mar 27, 2014, 7:24:16 PM3/27/14
to
On 27/03/2014 4:43 pm, Guy Barry wrote:
> "Robert Bannister" wrote in message
> news:bph75e...@mid.individual.net...
>>
>> On 26/03/2014 5:19 pm, Guy Barry wrote:
>>> "Robert Bannister" wrote in message
>>> news:bpeghr...@mid.individual.net...
>>>
>>>> There is or was a well-known suit hire firm in London known by its
>>>> rhyming name Moss Bros.
>>>
>>> Still very much in existence (see my other posts on the subject). And
>>> it's a national chain, not just London.
>>>
>>> http://www.moss.co.uk/
>>>
>>
>> A recent development: they started in Covent Garden. Apparently, it
>> was war that encouraged them to spread out:
>>
>> "With the outbreak of World War Two in September 1939 [...]"
>
> Even by the standards of this group you have a strange definition of
> "recent".
>
You snipped: "As far as I can make out, major expansion didn't take
> "Robert Bannister" wrote in message
> news:bph75e...@mid.individual.net...
>>
>> On 26/03/2014 5:19 pm, Guy Barry wrote:
>>> "Robert Bannister" wrote in message
>>> news:bpeghr...@mid.individual.net...
>>>
>>>> There is or was a well-known suit hire firm in London known by its
>>>> rhyming name Moss Bros.
>>>
>>> Still very much in existence (see my other posts on the subject). And
>>> it's a national chain, not just London.
>>>
>>> http://www.moss.co.uk/
>>>
>>
>> A recent development: they started in Covent Garden. Apparently, it
>> was war that encouraged them to spread out:
>>
>> "With the outbreak of World War Two in September 1939 [...]"
>
> Even by the standards of this group you have a strange definition of
> "recent".
>
place till the 1990s."
I don't actually remember 1939, but I do remember the 90s, the decade
when music stopped temporarily.
R H Draney
Mar 27, 2014, 11:55:21 PM3/27/14
to
Robert Bannister filted:
--
Me? Sarcastic?
Yeah, right.
>
>I don't actually remember 1939, but I do remember the 90s, the decade
>when music stopped temporarily.
Temporarily?...cite?...r
>I don't actually remember 1939, but I do remember the 90s, the decade
>when music stopped temporarily.
--
Me? Sarcastic?
Yeah, right.
Robert Bannister
Mar 28, 2014, 3:13:09 AM3/28/14
to
On 28/03/2014 11:55 am, R H Draney wrote:
> Robert Bannister filted:
>>
>> I don't actually remember 1939, but I do remember the 90s, the decade
>> when music stopped temporarily.
>
> Temporarily?...cite?...r
>
>
I don't know the names of any 21s century songs, but I do know they seem
> Robert Bannister filted:
>>
>> I don't actually remember 1939, but I do remember the 90s, the decade
>> when music stopped temporarily.
>
> Temporarily?...cite?...r
>
>
to have melodies, something that was distinctly lacking through most of
the 90s.
Peter Moylan
Mar 28, 2014, 11:16:18 PM3/28/14
to
On 28/03/14 18:13, Robert Bannister wrote:
> On 28/03/2014 11:55 am, R H Draney wrote:
>> Robert Bannister filted:
>>>
>>> I don't actually remember 1939, but I do remember the 90s, the decade
>>> when music stopped temporarily.
>>
>> Temporarily?...cite?...r
>>
> I don't know the names of any 21s century songs, but I do know they seem
> to have melodies, something that was distinctly lacking through most of
> the 90s.
I've probably told this story before, anyway ...
> On 28/03/2014 11:55 am, R H Draney wrote:
>> Robert Bannister filted:
>>>
>>> I don't actually remember 1939, but I do remember the 90s, the decade
>>> when music stopped temporarily.
>>
>> Temporarily?...cite?...r
>>
> I don't know the names of any 21s century songs, but I do know they seem
> to have melodies, something that was distinctly lacking through most of
> the 90s.
Two of my children grew up in the 90s and 00s. One day they were
passengers in my car, and my daughter changed radio stations. Out came a
monotonous "thump ... thump ... thump" from the speakers, with no words
and no tune. While I was wondering why anyone could bear to listen to
such rubbish, my children started singing along with it. To my
amazement, it was a pleasant and catchy tune.
Apparently that song (and no doubt many others) was audible to young
ears but not to older ears. It was an era when popular bands had very
loud percussionists who tried to drown out everyone else. You needed
good hearing to find out what the tune was.
It's possible that today's drummers are again being told that their job
is to blend in with the band, not drown it out.
--
Peter Moylan, Newcastle, NSW, Australia. http://www.pmoylan.org
For an e-mail address, see my web page.
R H Draney
Mar 29, 2014, 3:16:07 AM3/29/14
to
Peter Moylan filted:
Would you want them to play this at your daughter's wedding?
http://youtu.be/_SaYBOZ0yqw
And "pleasant and catchy tune" or not, would you let your children sing along
with this?
http://youtu.be/JYuD5uuo8Jg
....r
http://youtu.be/_SaYBOZ0yqw
And "pleasant and catchy tune" or not, would you let your children sing along
with this?
http://youtu.be/JYuD5uuo8Jg
....r
Message has been deleted
Peter Young
Mar 29, 2014, 3:42:01 AM3/29/14
to
On 28 Mar 2014 R H Draney <dado...@spamcop.net> wrote:
> Robert Bannister filted:
>>
>>I don't actually remember 1939, but I do remember the 90s, the decade
>>when music stopped temporarily.
> Temporarily?...cite?...r
Getting back on topic briefly, a friend and I were walking in south
> Robert Bannister filted:
>>
>>I don't actually remember 1939, but I do remember the 90s, the decade
>>when music stopped temporarily.
> Temporarily?...cite?...r
Worcestershire yesterday, and visited a village church. In it there
was a memorial to villagers who were killed in the First World War.
There were about seven names, and all but one of the first names were
abbreviated, so the custom was still going strong circa 1920.
Peter.
--
Peter Young, (BrE, RP), Consultant Anaesthetist, 1975-2004.
(US equivalent: Certified Anesthesiologist) (AUE W)
Cheltenham and Gloucester, UK. Now happily retired.
http://pnyoung.orpheusweb.co.uk
Robert Bannister
Mar 29, 2014, 6:29:24 PM3/29/14
to
0 new messages