-ola and shogun

[Quinn C]

In a recent Jeopardy round, two neighboring categories were titled
"-ola" and "He was a shogun". That caused a lot of chuckles. Can someone
explain the connection?

I was mildly bothered by the pronunciation of shogun as "show-gun".
Since I move in circles where a lot of people know Japanese and/or
Japanese culture, I usually here it pronounced with a /u/ in the second
syllable. At least one of the contestants also avoided the /V/ sound,
but used what sounded more like a schwa to me instead.

--
The country has its quota of fools and windbags; such people are
most prominent in politics, where their inherent weaknesses seem
less glaring and attract less ridicule than they would in other
walks of life. -- Robert Bothwell et.al.: Canada since 1945

[Tony Cooper]

On Fri, 1 Jul 2022 11:00:07 -0400, Quinn C
<lispa...@crommatograph.info> wrote:

>In a recent Jeopardy round, two neighboring categories were titled
>"-ola" and "He was a shogun". That caused a lot of chuckles. Can someone
>explain the connection?

I didn't watch it, but could it be "shogunola" as a pun for "Shinola"

A US (at least) saying is "He doesn't know shit from Shinola".

--

Tony Cooper - Orlando Florida

I read and post to this group as a form of entertainment.

[Mark Brader]

"Quinn":

>> In a recent Jeopardy round, two neighboring categories were titled
>> "-ola" and "He was a shogun". That caused a lot of chuckles. Can someone
>> explain the connection?

Alluding to the song lyrics "Her name was Lola, she was a showgirl."

Tony Cooper:

> I didn't watch it, but could it be "shogunola" as a pun for "Shinola"
>
> A US (at least) saying is "He doesn't know shit from Shinola".

One of the questions was in fact about Shinola: "This 21st century brand
of fine watches took the name of a 20th century brand of shoe polish".
I had not heard of the watch brand.
--
Mark Brader, Toronto | "Gadgetry abounded everywhere, almost all of which
m...@vex.net | he could justify." -- Robert Asprin

[Peter T. Daniels]

On Friday, July 1, 2022 at 11:00:14 AM UTC-4, Quinn C wrote:

> In a recent Jeopardy round, two neighboring categories were titled
> "-ola" and "He was a shogun". That caused a lot of chuckles.

In the fake audience. (Laugh-track machinery has become
quite versatile.)

> Can someone explain the connection?

That also bewildered me.

> I was mildly bothered by the pronunciation of shogun as "show-gun".

It's an English word. It's been familiar at least since the Richard
Chamberlain miniseries in ... looks it up ... 1980.

> Since I move in circles where a lot of people know Japanese and/or
> Japanese culture, I usually here it pronounced with a /u/ in the second
> syllable. At least one of the contestants also avoided the /V/ sound,
> but used what sounded more like a schwa to me instead.

That, I think, was also the day when all three of them thought
Byron lived until 1892.

I watched a good movie -- Henry Hathaway's *Fourteen Hours* --
instead of *J!* and *W* last evening.

[Jerry Friedman]

On Friday, July 1, 2022 at 10:03:13 AM UTC-6, Mark Brader wrote:
> "Quinn":
> >> In a recent Jeopardy round, two neighboring categories were titled
> >> "-ola" and "He was a shogun". That caused a lot of chuckles. Can someone
> >> explain the connection?

> Alluding to the song lyrics "Her name was Lola, she was a showgirl."

...

I remember "Copacabana", but I'd never have gotten that unless there were
hints.

--
Jerry Friedman

[Peter Moylan]

On 02/07/22 04:29, Peter T. Daniels wrote:
> On Friday, July 1, 2022 at 11:00:14 AM UTC-4, Quinn C wrote:

>> I was mildly bothered by the pronunciation of shogun as "show-gun".
>
> It's an English word. It's been familiar at least since the Richard
> Chamberlain miniseries in ... looks it up ... 1980.

Not to mention the James Clavell best-seller of 1975.

--
Peter Moylan Newcastle, NSW http://www.pmoylan.org

[Peter T. Daniels]

On Friday, July 1, 2022 at 10:22:27 PM UTC-4, Peter Moylan wrote:
> On 02/07/22 04:29, Peter T. Daniels wrote:
> > On Friday, July 1, 2022 at 11:00:14 AM UTC-4, Quinn C wrote:

> >> I was mildly bothered by the pronunciation of shogun as "show-gun".
> > It's an English word. It's been familiar at least since the Richard
> > Chamberlain miniseries in ... looks it up ... 1980.
>
> Not to mention the James Clavell best-seller of 1975.

A lot more people watched the TV series than read the
massive book it was based on.

Plus, reading the book doesn't tell you how to pronounce the title.

[Quinn C]

* Mark Brader:

> "Quinn":
>>> In a recent Jeopardy round, two neighboring categories were titled
>>> "-ola" and "He was a shogun". That caused a lot of chuckles. Can someone
>>> explain the connection?
>
> Alluding to the song lyrics "Her name was Lola, she was a showgirl."
>
> Tony Cooper:
>> I didn't watch it, but could it be "shogunola" as a pun for "Shinola"
>>
>> A US (at least) saying is "He doesn't know shit from Shinola".
>
> One of the questions was in fact about Shinola: "This 21st century brand
> of fine watches took the name of a 20th century brand of shoe polish".
> I had not heard of the watch brand.

I had, but had forgotten about it again.

I was quite surprised that nobody knew "payola". Has it maybe been
driven out by "pay to play"?

--
Learning the rules that govern intelligible speech is an
inculcation into normalized language, where the price of not
conforming is the loss of intelligibility itself.
-- Judith Butler

[Quinn C]

* Peter T. Daniels:

> On Friday, July 1, 2022 at 11:00:14 AM UTC-4, Quinn C wrote:
>
>> In a recent Jeopardy round, two neighboring categories were titled
>> "-ola" and "He was a shogun". That caused a lot of chuckles.
>
> In the fake audience. (Laugh-track machinery has become
> quite versatile.)
>
>> Can someone explain the connection?
>
> That also bewildered me.
>
>> I was mildly bothered by the pronunciation of shogun as "show-gun".
>
> It's an English word. It's been familiar at least since the Richard
> Chamberlain miniseries in ... looks it up ... 1980.

I saw what I saw of that in German, so wasn't exposed to the English
pronunciation yet. Don't forget I lived in Japan before I lived in
Canada, before I even ever set foot in North America.

As for "it's an English word", it seems natural enough to make the
non-stressed syllable a schwa, instead of saying it like another
stressed syllable. It's not actually a compound of the word "gun", after
all.

>> Since I move in circles where a lot of people know Japanese and/or
>> Japanese culture, I usually here it pronounced with a /u/ in the second
>> syllable. At least one of the contestants also avoided the /V/ sound,
>> but used what sounded more like a schwa to me instead.
>
> That, I think, was also the day when all three of them thought
> Byron lived until 1892.

I got no further than "Byron ... but he was too early. Then who?" But
then, I didn't grow up with English poetry. I don't think I ever read
anything by Tennyson (the correct answer.)

Actually, my next thought was "and he was called 'Lord Byron', was he
really a baron?" That title stuff is confusing.

--
Quinn C
My pronouns are they/them
(or other gender-neutral ones)

[Peter T. Daniels]

On Saturday, July 2, 2022 at 10:08:07 AM UTC-4, Quinn C wrote:
> * Peter T. Daniels:
> > On Friday, July 1, 2022 at 11:00:14 AM UTC-4, Quinn C wrote:

> >> In a recent Jeopardy round, two neighboring categories were titled
> >> "-ola" and "He was a shogun". That caused a lot of chuckles.
> > In the fake audience. (Laugh-track machinery has become
> > quite versatile.)
> >> Can someone explain the connection?
> > That also bewildered me.
> >> I was mildly bothered by the pronunciation of shogun as "show-gun".
> > It's an English word. It's been familiar at least since the Richard
> > Chamberlain miniseries in ... looks it up ... 1980.
>
> I saw what I saw of that in German, so wasn't exposed to the English
> pronunciation yet. Don't forget I lived in Japan before I lived in
> Canada, before I even ever set foot in North America.
>
> As for "it's an English word", it seems natural enough to make the
> non-stressed syllable a schwa, instead of saying it like another
> stressed syllable. It's not actually a compound of the word "gun", after
> all.

Well, of course! Where have you heard it unreduced?

> >> Since I move in circles where a lot of people know Japanese and/or
> >> Japanese culture, I usually here it pronounced with a /u/ in the second
> >> syllable. At least one of the contestants also avoided the /V/ sound,
> >> but used what sounded more like a schwa to me instead.
> > That, I think, was also the day when all three of them thought
> > Byron lived until 1892.
>
> I got no further than "Byron ... but he was too early. Then who?" But
> then, I didn't grow up with English poetry. I don't think I ever read
> anything by Tennyson (the correct answer.)

You haven't missed much. No doubt some thought of him as
"the Laureate who will not die."

> Actually, my next thought was "and he was called 'Lord Byron', was he
> really a baron?" That title stuff is confusing.

Not our problem! (Might be yours, though. Isn't/wasn't Conrad
Black one of those?)

[bruce bowser]

On Friday, July 1, 2022 at 11:00:14 AM UTC-4, Quinn C wrote:

> In a recent Jeopardy round, two neighboring categories were titled
> "-ola" and "He was a shogun". That caused a lot of chuckles. Can someone
> explain the connection?
>
> I was mildly bothered by the pronunciation of shogun as "show-gun".
> Since I move in circles where a lot of people know Japanese and/or
> Japanese culture

Don't take it from a bunch of folk from here in the states: In Japan, here is a proper example of "shogun" pronunciation in native Japanese (00:08 second):
-- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nkAz4a0bLlI

[Quinn C]

* Peter T. Daniels:

> On Saturday, July 2, 2022 at 10:08:07 AM UTC-4, Quinn C wrote:
>> * Peter T. Daniels:
>>> On Friday, July 1, 2022 at 11:00:14 AM UTC-4, Quinn C wrote:
>
>>>> In a recent Jeopardy round, two neighboring categories were titled
>>>> "-ola" and "He was a shogun". That caused a lot of chuckles.
>>> In the fake audience. (Laugh-track machinery has become
>>> quite versatile.)
>>>> Can someone explain the connection?
>>> That also bewildered me.
>>>> I was mildly bothered by the pronunciation of shogun as "show-gun".
>>> It's an English word. It's been familiar at least since the Richard
>>> Chamberlain miniseries in ... looks it up ... 1980.
>>
>> I saw what I saw of that in German, so wasn't exposed to the English
>> pronunciation yet. Don't forget I lived in Japan before I lived in
>> Canada, before I even ever set foot in North America.
>>
>> As for "it's an English word", it seems natural enough to make the
>> non-stressed syllable a schwa, instead of saying it like another
>> stressed syllable. It's not actually a compound of the word "gun", after
>> all.
>
> Well, of course! Where have you heard it unreduced?

In the way Mayim pronounced it. That's why I brought it up.

Also, the only recorded pronunciation at Forvo
<https://forvo.com/search/shogun/en/> and the first pronunciation at
Oxford Dictionaries <https://www.lexico.com/definition/shogun>.

Contrary to that, M-W and AHD sound files have it with schwa, and
Collins with [u:].

[Peter T. Daniels]

On Saturday, July 2, 2022 at 4:00:23 PM UTC-4, Quinn C wrote:
> * Peter T. Daniels:
> > On Saturday, July 2, 2022 at 10:08:07 AM UTC-4, Quinn C wrote:
> >> * Peter T. Daniels:
> >>> On Friday, July 1, 2022 at 11:00:14 AM UTC-4, Quinn C wrote:

> >>>> In a recent Jeopardy round, two neighboring categories were titled
> >>>> "-ola" and "He was a shogun". That caused a lot of chuckles.
> >>> In the fake audience. (Laugh-track machinery has become
> >>> quite versatile.)
> >>>> Can someone explain the connection?
> >>> That also bewildered me.
> >>>> I was mildly bothered by the pronunciation of shogun as "show-gun".
> >>> It's an English word. It's been familiar at least since the Richard
> >>> Chamberlain miniseries in ... looks it up ... 1980.
> >> I saw what I saw of that in German, so wasn't exposed to the English
> >> pronunciation yet. Don't forget I lived in Japan before I lived in
> >> Canada, before I even ever set foot in North America.
> >> As for "it's an English word", it seems natural enough to make the
> >> non-stressed syllable a schwa, instead of saying it like another
> >> stressed syllable. It's not actually a compound of the word "gun", after
> >> all.
> > Well, of course! Where have you heard it unreduced?
>
> In the way Mayim pronounced it. That's why I brought it up.

Let her use it in a sentence.

The emcee only gets one chance to say the titles, and they
have to be perfectly clear the first time. I didn't notice anything
odd.

[Peter Moylan]

The book title, on the front cover, has a macron over the O, but no
accent mark on the u.

[Quinn C]

She had several more chances to say it in the clues, and I think she was
consistent.

One of the candidates used the same pronunciation (which may just
reflect the host's), but another one said it with a schwa.

>> Also, the only recorded pronunciation at Forvo
>> <https://forvo.com/search/shogun/en/> and the first pronunciation at
>> Oxford Dictionaries <https://www.lexico.com/definition/shogun>.
>>
>> Contrary to that, M-W and AHD sound files have it with schwa, and
>> Collins with [u:].

--
9/11 was pretty much the 9/11 of the falafel business.
-- Abed Nadir on Community

[Peter T. Daniels]

Yeah, like that means anything to your typical monolingual
Anglophone.

Is it carried through within the text?

[Adam Funk]

On 2022-07-01, Mark Brader wrote:

> "Quinn":
>>> In a recent Jeopardy round, two neighboring categories were titled
>>> "-ola" and "He was a shogun". That caused a lot of chuckles. Can someone
>>> explain the connection?
>
> Alluding to the song lyrics "Her name was Lola, she was a showgirl."
>
> Tony Cooper:
>> I didn't watch it, but could it be "shogunola" as a pun for "Shinola"
>>
>> A US (at least) saying is "He doesn't know shit from Shinola".
>
> One of the questions was in fact about Shinola: "This 21st century brand
> of fine watches took the name of a 20th century brand of shoe polish".
> I had not heard of the watch brand.

Same here: I've heard the expression Tony mentioned, & was aware of
the shoe polish, but this is the first I've heard of the watch
brand. Does Shinola shoe polish still exist?


--
Each class preaches the importance of those virtues it need not
exercise. The rich harp on the value of thrift, the idle grow
eloquent over the dignity of labor. ---Oscar Wilde

[bruce bowser]

On Friday, July 1, 2022 at 10:22:27 PM UTC-4, Peter Moylan wrote:

> On 02/07/22 04:29, Peter T. Daniels wrote:
> > On Friday, July 1, 2022 at 11:00:14 AM UTC-4, Quinn C wrote:
>
> >> I was mildly bothered by the pronunciation of shogun as "show-gun".
> >
> > It's an English word. It's been familiar at least since the Richard
> > Chamberlain miniseries in ... looks it up ... 1980.
> Not to mention the James Clavell best-seller of 1975.

Other words ending in -ola are: canola crapola girandola areola gondola viola parabola granola hyperbola

[Tony Cooper]

On Mon, 04 Jul 2022 16:37:04 +0100, Adam Funk <a24...@ducksburg.com>
wrote:

>On 2022-07-01, Mark Brader wrote:
>
>> "Quinn":
>>>> In a recent Jeopardy round, two neighboring categories were titled
>>>> "-ola" and "He was a shogun". That caused a lot of chuckles. Can someone
>>>> explain the connection?
>>
>> Alluding to the song lyrics "Her name was Lola, she was a showgirl."
>>
>> Tony Cooper:
>>> I didn't watch it, but could it be "shogunola" as a pun for "Shinola"
>>>
>>> A US (at least) saying is "He doesn't know shit from Shinola".
>>
>> One of the questions was in fact about Shinola: "This 21st century brand
>> of fine watches took the name of a 20th century brand of shoe polish".
>> I had not heard of the watch brand.
>
>Same here: I've heard the expression Tony mentioned, & was aware of
>the shoe polish, but this is the first I've heard of the watch
>brand. Does Shinola shoe polish still exist?

Not since 1980.

The Shinola watches are sold by most department stores and fine
jewelers in this area. A very upscale Winter Park fine jeweler has
them in the window with the Rolex watches.

[Adam Funk]

On 2022-07-04, Tony Cooper wrote:

> On Mon, 04 Jul 2022 16:37:04 +0100, Adam Funk <a24...@ducksburg.com>
> wrote:
>
>>On 2022-07-01, Mark Brader wrote:
>>
>>> "Quinn":
>>>>> In a recent Jeopardy round, two neighboring categories were titled
>>>>> "-ola" and "He was a shogun". That caused a lot of chuckles. Can someone
>>>>> explain the connection?
>>>
>>> Alluding to the song lyrics "Her name was Lola, she was a showgirl."
>>>
>>> Tony Cooper:
>>>> I didn't watch it, but could it be "shogunola" as a pun for "Shinola"
>>>>
>>>> A US (at least) saying is "He doesn't know shit from Shinola".
>>>
>>> One of the questions was in fact about Shinola: "This 21st century brand
>>> of fine watches took the name of a 20th century brand of shoe polish".
>>> I had not heard of the watch brand.
>>
>>Same here: I've heard the expression Tony mentioned, & was aware of
>>the shoe polish, but this is the first I've heard of the watch
>>brand. Does Shinola shoe polish still exist?
>
> Not since 1980.

1960 according to
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shinola>

> The Shinola watches are sold by most department stores and fine
> jewelers in this area. A very upscale Winter Park fine jeweler has
> them in the window with the Rolex watches.

Wikipedia says the "lifestyle brand" is inspired by the saying quoted
earlier.

<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shinola_(retail_company)#History>


--
It's like a pair of eyes. You're looking at the umlaut, and it's
looking at you. ---David St. Hubbins

[Ken Blake]

I had never heard of them either. A Google search showed me some. They
don't look like Rolexes, but they're a lot less expensive (although
still not cheap).