Edinburgh Fringe - AUE relevant best jokes (including food and linguistics)

[occam]

Every year around this time, the Edinburgh Fringe Festival hosts a large
number of stand-up comedy shows. Somehow, someone somewhere decides what
is the 'best' joke.

Source:
https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-scotland-edinburgh-east-fife-49389208

This year's winner:

(2019)

"I keep randomly shouting out 'Broccoli' and 'Cauliflower' - I think I
might have florets". (Olaf Falafel)

(also ran) "A thesaurus is great. There's no other word for it" (Ross
Smith)



(from 2018)

"What do colour blind people do when they are told to eat their greens?"
(Flo and Joan)

(from 2017)

"I've given up asking rhetorical questions. What's the point?" (Alexei
Sayle)

(2013)
"I heard a rumour that Cadbury is bringing out an oriental chocolate
bar. Could be a Chinese Wispa." (Rob Auton)

(2011)

"I needed a password eight characters long so I picked Snow White and
the Seven Dwarves." (Nick Helm)

Other worth ones...

(year?) "Let me tell you about myself - it's a reflexive pronoun meaning me"


(2014) "I've decided to sell my Hoover... well, it was just collecting
dust" (Tim Vine).

[HVS]

On Mon, 26 Aug 2019 19:04:06 +0200, occam <oc...@invalid.nix> wrote:

> Every year around this time, the Edinburgh Fringe Festival hosts a
large
> number of stand-up comedy shows. Somehow, someone somewhere decides
what
> is the 'best' joke.

> Source:
https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-scotland-edinburgh-east-fife-49389208

> This year's winner:
> (2019)

> "I keep randomly shouting out 'Broccoli' and 'Cauliflower' - I
think I
> might have florets". (Olaf Falafel)

There's been no end of complaints about that from the relevant
disability group.

(That begs for a one-liner response, but I ain't gonna make it......)

Cheers, Harvey

[Peter T. Daniels]

Is "floret" some sort of nickname or epithet for some sort of disability?
The stress pattern keeps it even from being a remembrance of "Tourette's"
(knowing that you insist on "fillet" instead of "filet" and "garridge"
for "garage").

If what Occam copied is typical of cutting-edge humor, then the Edinburgh
Fringe has certainly sunk far, far below the days of the greats of the 60s.

Just about all of those could have been Stephen Wright one-liners from,
when, 20 years ago? (Those that do not depend on purely local references,
such as "florets" and "Wispas.") I'm sure I've seen the "thesaurus" one
before.

[Peter Duncanson [BrE]]

A floret is part of the structure of certain types of vegetable
including 'Broccoli' and 'Cauliflower'. 'Florets' rhymes with
'Tourettes'. Tourettes syndrome involves verbal tics - "randomly
shouting out" as in the words of the joke.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tourette_syndrome

"Floret" is a botanical term.
From the American Heritage Dictionary:
https://www.ahdictionary.com/word/search.html?q=floret

flo·ret (flôr?it, -et)
n.
1. A small or reduced flower, especially one in a spikelet of a
grass or sedge or in a flower head of a plant of the composite
family.
2. Any of the tight, branched clusters of flower buds that together
form a head of cauliflower or broccoli.


--
Peter Duncanson, UK
(in alt.usage.english)

[snide...@gmail.com]

I don't think PTD was whooshed about that.

[re-ordered]

> Tourettes syndrome involves verbal tics - "randomly
> shouting out" as in the words of the joke.
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tourette_syndrome

Or about that.

> 'Florets' rhymes with
> 'Tourettes'.

That is a surprise to me,
whose florets rhymes with ore etts
and Tourettes rhymes with fleur etts.

I suspect PTD has a similar distinction.

> "Floret" is a botanical term.
> From the American Heritage Dictionary:
> https://www.ahdictionary.com/word/search.html?q=floret
>
> flo·ret (flôr?it, -et)
> n.
> 1. A small or reduced flower, especially one in a spikelet of a
> grass or sedge or in a flower head of a plant of the composite
> family.
> 2. Any of the tight, branched clusters of flower buds that together
> form a head of cauliflower or broccoli.

Hey, are you trying to beat me to OCD?

/dps

[Peter T. Daniels]

Not in AmE, it doesn't, and the spelling provides no warrant for such a
stress pattern. It isn't "florette."

> Tourettes syndrome involves verbal tics - "randomly
> shouting out" as in the words of the joke.
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tourette_syndrome
>
> "Floret" is a botanical term.
> From the American Heritage Dictionary:
> https://www.ahdictionary.com/word/search.html?q=floret

A culinary term. Frozen florets (either kind) are more expensive than packages
that have both florets and pieces of stalk.

[Jerry Friedman]

...

Does it? The OED and Lexico.com show "floret" with the accent on the
first syllable, and the OED shows "Tourette's" with the accent on the
second. (Lexico doesn't have "Tourette's".)

(Took a lot of planning to get those to line up.)

--
Jerry Friedman

[Quinn C]

* Peter Duncanson [BrE]:

> On Mon, 26 Aug 2019 10:57:55 -0700 (PDT), "Peter T. Daniels"
> <gram...@verizon.net> wrote:
>
>>On Monday, August 26, 2019 at 1:26:00 PM UTC-4, HVS wrote:
>>> On Mon, 26 Aug 2019 19:04:06 +0200, occam <oc...@invalid.nix> wrote:
>>
>>> > Every year around this time, the Edinburgh Fringe Festival hosts a
>>> large
>>> > number of stand-up comedy shows. Somehow, someone somewhere decides
>>> what
>>> > is the 'best' joke.
>>>
>>> > Source:
>>> https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-scotland-edinburgh-east-fife-49389208
>>>
>>> > This year's winner:
>>> > (2019)
>>>
>>> > "I keep randomly shouting out 'Broccoli' and 'Cauliflower' - I
>>> think I
>>> > might have florets". (Olaf Falafel)
>>>
>>> There's been no end of complaints about that from the relevant
>>> disability group.
>>>
>>> (That begs for a one-liner response, but I ain't gonna make it......)
>>
>>Is "floret" some sort of nickname or epithet for some sort of disability?
>>The stress pattern keeps it even from being a remembrance of "Tourette's"
>>(knowing that you insist on "fillet" instead of "filet" and "garridge"
>>for "garage").
>

> A floret is part of the structure of certain types of vegetable
> including 'Broccoli' and 'Cauliflower'. 'Florets' rhymes with
> 'Tourettes'.

Well, that's the issue. The joke suggests that "florets" is an
(imagined) disease, but it didn't sound disease-like to me, either in
general form or by similarity with an existing one. I didn't even think
of Tourette's.

Even in BrE, according to Collins, both the stress pattern and the
first vowel are different (FLAW-rets, too-RETS), so I guess it's no
more than "they both end in -rets".

Assignment: make a joke about gaskets and diskettes.

--
...an explanatory principle - like "gravity" or "instinct" -
really explains nothing. It’s a sort of conventional agreement
between scientists to stop trying to explain things at a
certain point. -- Gregory Bateson

[Sam Plusnet]

On 26-Aug-19 18:04, occam wrote:
> Every year around this time, the Edinburgh Fringe Festival hosts a large
> number of stand-up comedy shows. Somehow, someone somewhere decides what
> is the 'best' joke.
>

From a previous year, I quite liked

"I booked and went on a 'Holiday of a Lifetime'. Never again!"


--
Sam Plusnet

[Peter Duncanson [BrE]]

On Mon, 26 Aug 2019 13:02:19 -0700 (PDT), "Peter T. Daniels"

It might have been when the man was telling his joke.
I think it highly likely that he stressed "-rets" to rhyme with
"-rette's"

>
>> Tourettes syndrome involves verbal tics - "randomly
>> shouting out" as in the words of the joke.
>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tourette_syndrome
>>
>> "Floret" is a botanical term.
>> From the American Heritage Dictionary:
>> https://www.ahdictionary.com/word/search.html?q=floret
>
>A culinary term. Frozen florets (either kind) are more expensive than packages
>that have both florets and pieces of stalk.
>
>> flo·ret (flôr?it, -et)
>> n.
>> 1. A small or reduced flower, especially one in a spikelet of a
>> grass or sedge or in a flower head of a plant of the composite
>> family.
>> 2. Any of the tight, branched clusters of flower buds that together
>> form a head of cauliflower or broccoli.

[occam]

Yes, quite a few gems in the short-lists of previous Fringes.


"I took out a loan to pay for an exorcism. If I don't pay it back, I'm
going to get repossessed"

(2018, Olaf Falafel again)

[Jerry Friedman]

"...as the current joke goes, 'Did you hear about the man who did not
pay his debts to the exorcist and his soul was repossessed?'"

/Illinois Bar Journal/, 1973

https://books.google.com/books?id=aYWzAAAAIAAJ&q=repossessed+joke+Ervin

Later versions in joke books have "he was repossessed", like Olaf, which
is better than "his soul was repossessed".

--
Jerry Friedman

[Jerry Friedman]

On 8/26/19 11:04 AM, occam wrote:
> Every year around this time, the Edinburgh Fringe Festival hosts a large
> number of stand-up comedy shows. Somehow, someone somewhere decides what
> is the 'best' joke.
>
> Source:
> https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-scotland-edinburgh-east-fife-49389208
>
> This year's winner:
>
> (2019)
>
> "I keep randomly shouting out 'Broccoli' and 'Cauliflower' - I think I
> might have florets". (Olaf Falafel)
>
> (also ran) "A thesaurus is great. There's no other word for it" (Ross
> Smith)

I like that one.

> (from 2018)
>
> "What do colour blind people do when they are told to eat their greens?"
> (Flo and Joan)

See red.

> (from 2017)
>
> "I've given up asking rhetorical questions. What's the point?" (Alexei
> Sayle)
>
> (2013)
> "I heard a rumour that Cadbury is bringing out an oriental chocolate
> bar. Could be a Chinese Wispa." (Rob Auton)
>
> (2011)
>
> "I needed a password eight characters long so I picked Snow White and
> the Seven Dwarves." (Nick Helm)
>
> Other worth ones...
>
> (year?) "Let me tell you about myself - it's a reflexive pronoun meaning me"
>
>
> (2014) "I've decided to sell my Hoover... well, it was just collecting
> dust" (Tim Vine).

Those are good.

--
Jerry Friedman

[Mark Brader]

> "I keep randomly shouting out 'Broccoli' and 'Cauliflower' - I think I
> might have florets". (Olaf Falafel)

That doesn't work for me, because it would never occur to me to accent
"florets" on the second syllable. If it was pronounced that way it'd
be spelled "florettes", wouldn't it?
--
Mark Brader, Toronto "Don't be silly -- send it to Canada"
m...@vex.net -- British postal worker

[John Dunlop]

Mark Brader:

>> "I keep randomly shouting out 'Broccoli' and 'Cauliflower' - I think I
>> might have florets". (Olaf Falafel)
>
> That doesn't work for me, because it would never occur to me to accent
> "florets" on the second syllable. If it was pronounced that way it'd
> be spelled "florettes", wouldn't it?

But if "florets" was stressed on the second syllable -- which it was in
the telling of the joke -- would you not have identified it as
"florets", especially given the context of "broccoli" and "cauliflower"?

The joke worked for me, and I'd probably never heard "florets" stressed
on the second syllable before. I'm not sure the different stress pattern
even registered at the time.

--
John

[HVS]

On 26 Aug 2019, occam wrote

> Every year around this time, the Edinburgh Fringe Festival hosts a
> large number of stand-up comedy shows. Somehow, someone somewhere
> decides what is the 'best' joke.

The "best joke" title is misleading; it's invariably a "best one-
liner", and (obvs) not all jokes are one-liners.

My favourite Tim Vine joke is also not a one-liner:

Apparently one in five people in the world is Chinese.
There are five people in my family, so one of them must be Chinese.
So it’s either my mum or my dad, or my older brother, Colin, or my
younger brother, Ho-Chan-Chu.

I think it’s probably Colin.

--
Cheers, Harvey
CanEng (30 yrs) and BrEng (36 yrs),
indiscriminately mixed

[Paul Wolff]

On Tue, 27 Aug 2019, at 02:32:08, Mark Brader <m...@vex.net> posted:

>> "I keep randomly shouting out 'Broccoli' and 'Cauliflower' - I think I
>> might have florets". (Olaf Falafel)
>
>That doesn't work for me, because it would never occur to me to accent
>"florets" on the second syllable. If it was pronounced that way it'd
>be spelled "florettes", wouldn't it?

Like "cadets", for example?
--
Paul

[Katy Jennison]

Readers of aue will understand from this thread why, on my annual trip
to the Edinburgh Festival, during which I'm going from one to another
Festival venue all day for a week, I spend none of that time whatsoever
at any of the Fringe events.


--
Katy Jennison

[Athel Cornish-Bowden]

Good for you. If I went to the Festival d'Avignon (which I easily
could, as it's a lot nearer to me than Edinburgh is to you), I'd follow
the same principle and eschew the Off.


--
athel

[Peter Moylan]

On 27/08/19 05:12, Peter Duncanson [BrE] wrote:

> A floret is part of the structure of certain types of vegetable
> including 'Broccoli' and 'Cauliflower'. 'Florets' rhymes with
> 'Tourettes'.

Apropos of nothing, "Jean de Florette" is an excellent film.

--
Peter Moylan http://www.pmoylan.org
Newcastle, NSW, Australia

[charles]

In article <qk2u6u$ksr$1...@news.albasani.net>, Katy Jennison

having been part of the Fringe (in 1962) and Chairman of a drama group
which performed in 2014, I don't think it is necessary to avoid Fringe
events entirely. You just need to be selective. In 2014, we saw some very
good shows, but this required studying the brochure carefully. There's
also one's wallet to think about.

--
from KT24 in Surrey, England
"I'd rather die of exhaustion than die of boredom" Thomas Carlyle

[Katy Jennison]

This is quite true, and not all Fringe-designated events are stand-up
comedy, which is what I avoid. And I did, now I think about it, go this
year to the Fringe production 'Spliced', https://www.spliced.ie/, an
extraordinary performance about the Irish sport of hurling, and about
what it means for a boy growing up in Ireland.

The percentage of Fringe shows which are stand-up comics has been
increasing at an alarming rate, though.

--
Katy Jennison

[Peter T. Daniels]

On Tuesday, August 27, 2019 at 3:32:15 AM UTC-4, Mark Brader wrote:

> > "I keep randomly shouting out 'Broccoli' and 'Cauliflower' - I think I
> > might have florets". (Olaf Falafel)
>
> That doesn't work for me, because it would never occur to me to accent
> "florets" on the second syllable. If it was pronounced that way it'd
> be spelled "florettes", wouldn't it?

Once again, an entire thread is ignored.

[Lewis]

I've only ever heard of the Edinburgh Festival in reference to the
Fringe events. In fact, until this post, I thought it was the Edinburgh
Fringe Festival and know it as a comedy related showcase sort of event.

Eddie Izzard, Jo Brand, Greg Proops, Alan Davies, Bill Bailey, Rich
Hall, Graham Norton, The League of Gentlemen, Jimmy Carr, Flight of the
Conchords, Josie Long, Seann Walsh, James Acaster...

Probably quite a lot others.



--
"Why, you stuck-up, half-witted, scruffy-looking... NERFHERDER!"
"Who's Scruffy looking?"

[charles]

In article <slrnqmafdt....@darth.lan>, Lewis

The (Proper) Festival started in 1947 and, even then, there were eight
societies who tagged on to the avaiabilty of audiences,. It didn't
officially become the Fringe until 1959. Many of the events were late
night reviews and were highly entertaining. The main Festival hit back with
late night shows, too: Anna Russell, 'At The Drop of a Kilt' and 'Beyond
the Fringe' were ones I remember seeing.

My one claim to fame is that I persuaded the Cambridge University drama
societies to combine forces and take a production (it turned in two) to The
Fringe in 1962. The play was reviewed in The Times (by Kenneth Tynan) whose
phrase "opens new Frontiers of Drama" was quickly added to the posters. The
end of the sentence " .. by moving the venue from the kitchen sink to the
chamber pot" was quietly ignored.
I was involved with the cabaret group (CU Footlights) which was in a venue
just down the hill from the castle with the aim of catching peop[le as they
came out from the Tattoo. I can now only remember two of the performers:
Ian Lang (now Baron Lang of Monkton) who went into politics (Sec of State
for Scotland 1990-1995) and Len Pearcey who carried on singing and
eventually became a BBC Radio 2 presenter - he died last year.

At our end of Fringe party we had various vistors. One trio was the folk
singers: Robin Hall, Jimmy McGregor and Steve Benbow. The 3 got onto our
tiny stage and the outer two held their guitars in the playing position,
letting go of number 3 who announced "Ah'm too pished to play" and sank in
a heap on the floor. It was around 3am and they'd obviously been to afew
events before coming on to us.
Our venue wnet on to become The Traverse Theatre which is now quite a
respectable outfit - but at a different site.

Oh and yes, a lot more performers than you mention.

[Athel Cornish-Bowden]

On 2019-08-27 10:26:07 +0000, Peter Moylan said:

> On 27/08/19 05:12, Peter Duncanson [BrE] wrote:
>
>> A floret is part of the structure of certain types of vegetable
>> including 'Broccoli' and 'Cauliflower'. 'Florets' rhymes with
>> 'Tourettes'.
>
> Apropos of nothing, "Jean de Florette" is an excellent film.

As is "Manon des Sources", which has scenes of Emanuelle Béart in her
birthday suit near the beginning.


--
athel

[Lewis]

That doesn't sound like Tynan.

> phrase "opens new Frontiers of Drama" was quickly added to the posters. The
> end of the sentence " .. by moving the venue from the kitchen sink to the
> chamber pot" was quietly ignored.

Ah, there it is, that does sound like Tynan.

(My father and step-mother had a collection of his reviews and we
enjoyed reading through it, even for productions of plays we'd never
heard of.

I believe it was this book, but an earlier edition:

<https://www.amazon.com/Theatre-Writings-Kenneth-Tynan-2007-09-28/dp/B01FJ00E2Y/>


--
'Ah... I see that the new traffic division is having the desired
effect.' He indicated a large pile of paper. 'I am getting any amount of
complaints from the Carters' and Drovers' Guild. Well done. Do pass on
my thanks to Sergeant Colon and his team.' 'I will, sir.' 'I see in one
day they clamped seventeen carts, ten horses, eighteen oxen and one
duck.' 'It was parked illegally, sir.'

[Sam Plusnet]

On 27-Aug-19 12:05, Katy Jennison wrote:

>
> The percentage of Fringe shows which are stand-up comics has been
> increasing at an alarming rate, though.
>

I suspect the great majority of Fringe events lose money, and one person
with a microphone and a spotlight will lose money at a slower rate than
almost any other production.


--
Sam Plusnet

[Peter Moylan]

I recognise some of those names. Never been to the Edinburgh Festival,
but a sampling of the comedy part - from there and various other places
- ends up on TV.

Long ago I liked TV shows like The Two Ronnies, Dave Allen, Benny Hill,
and so on. That sort of comedy has largely disappeared, so I like
watching stand-up comedy as the next best thing.

[Peter Moylan]

I had completely forgotten about the birthday suit. I'll have to watch
both films, in the correct sequence, the next time they come back here.

[Adam Funk]

On 2019-08-27, Mark Brader wrote:

>> "I keep randomly shouting out 'Broccoli' and 'Cauliflower' - I think I
>> might have florets". (Olaf Falafel)
>
> That doesn't work for me, because it would never occur to me to accent
> "florets" on the second syllable. If it was pronounced that way it'd
> be spelled "florettes", wouldn't it?

I'm not sure about the relative frequency, but I've definitely seen
"pipet" & "buret" (for "pipette" & "burette"). I think the shorter
forms were in AmE books, & I'd expect the pronunciations to be the
same.


--
Mandrake, have you never wondered why I drink only distilled water,
or rain water, and only pure grain alcohol? ---General Ripper

[Adam Funk]

While Marcel Pagnol is salient, I'd like to ask if you can recall a
quote from one of his books where someone says something like "you
have not only conquered the land of stupidity but are now trying to
move the boundaries to expand your kingdom"? (I think the original
ends with "repousser les bornes pour agrandir ton royaume".)


--
Apparently I lack some particular perversion which today's
employer is seeking. ---Ignatius J Reilly

[Peter T. Daniels]

On Wednesday, August 28, 2019 at 11:30:28 AM UTC-4, Adam Funk wrote:
> On 2019-08-27, Mark Brader wrote:

[no, he didn't]

> >> "I keep randomly shouting out 'Broccoli' and 'Cauliflower' - I think I
> >> might have florets". (Olaf Falafel)
> > That doesn't work for me, because it would never occur to me to accent
> > "florets" on the second syllable. If it was pronounced that way it'd
> > be spelled "florettes", wouldn't it?
>
> I'm not sure about the relative frequency, but I've definitely seen
> "pipet" & "buret" (for "pipette" & "burette"). I think the shorter
> forms were in AmE books, & I'd expect the pronunciations to be the
> same.

Could they have been very old books, when part of the country was under
a Simplified Spelling spell? TRoosevelt ordered the Government Printing
Office to follow some reforms, and Taft rescinded that the moment he
assumed office.

[Cheryl]

I've seen "pipet" and "buret" well after the Taft administration. I
always assumed they were American spellings.

--
Cheryl

[Jerry Friedman]

On Wednesday, August 28, 2019 at 9:30:28 AM UTC-6, Adam Funk wrote:
> On 2019-08-27, Mark Brader wrote:
>
> >> "I keep randomly shouting out 'Broccoli' and 'Cauliflower' - I think I
> >> might have florets". (Olaf Falafel)
> >
> > That doesn't work for me, because it would never occur to me to accent
> > "florets" on the second syllable. If it was pronounced that way it'd
> > be spelled "florettes", wouldn't it?
>
> I'm not sure about the relative frequency, but I've definitely seen
> "pipet" & "buret" (for "pipette" & "burette"). I think the shorter
> forms were in AmE books, & I'd expect the pronunciations to be the
> same.

Also "briquet" (something like half or a third as common as "briquette"
in American English at Google ngrams), "cornet" in American English,
and "quartet" and its relatives.

--
Jerry Friedman

[Paul Wolff]

On Wed, 28 Aug 2019, at 09:05:00, Jerry Friedman
<jerry_f...@yahoo.com> posted:

Cadet, while we're at it.
--
Paul

[Anders D. Nygaard]

Den 27-08-2019 kl. 12:36 skrev charles:
> In article <qk2u6u$ksr$1...@news.albasani.net>, Katy Jennison
> <ka...@spamtrap.kjennison.com> wrote:

>> [...]

>> Readers of aue will understand from this thread why, on my annual trip
>> to the Edinburgh Festival, during which I'm going from one to another
>> Festival venue all day for a week, I spend none of that time whatsoever
>> at any of the Fringe events.
>
> having been part of the Fringe (in 1962) and Chairman of a drama group
> which performed in 2014, I don't think it is necessary to avoid Fringe
> events entirely. You just need to be selective. In 2014, we saw some very
> good shows, but this required studying the brochure carefully. There's
> also one's wallet to think about.

Many pick-pockets around?

/Anders, Denmark.

[RH Draney]

And the old standby, "cigaret"....r

[David Kleinecke]

"Birthday Suit" I remember from my long-ago youth. Delighted to
see it again. Is it really worldwide and still current?

[Kerr-Mudd,John]

Little Red Corvet.


--
Bah, and indeed, Humbug.

[bill van]

It's known to me in CanE, but no longer common. I don't know when
I last heard or read it, until the mention above.

bill

[Peter T. Daniels]

GPO rules don't apply to non-government printing ...

[Peter Moylan]

"Cigaret" also lasted a long time.

[Phil Hobbs]

It is in the US.

Cheers

Phil Hobbs

[Isabelle C.]

Le 28/08/2019 à 17:40, Adam Funk a écrit :
[...]

> While Marcel Pagnol is salient, I'd like to ask if you can recall a
> quote from one of his books where someone says something like "you
> have not only conquered the land of stupidity but are now trying to
> move the boundaries to expand your kingdom"? (I think the original
> ends with "repousser les bornes pour agrandir ton royaume".)

It's in _César_.

"Monsieur Escartefigue, lorsque vous dites des choses pareilles, vous
battez tous les records de stupidité ; c’est-à-dire que vous serrez sur
votre cœur les bornes du couillonisme, et que vous courez à toute
vitesse pour les transporter plus loin, afin d’agrandir votre domaine."


My attempt at a rather close translation:
"Mr Escartefigue, when you say such things, you beat all records for
stupidity; I mean, you're holding close to your breast the boundary
stones of daftness, and you're running as fast as you can to carry them
further along, so as to expand your own demesne."

The whole Pagnol trilogy has been translated/adapted into English by
Michael Johnston:

<http://www.akanos.co.uk/works-by-michael-johnston/plays-by-michael-johnston/marius-fanny-cesar-3-plays-translated-by-michael-johnston/>

Here is how he translated those lines:

"Monsieur Escartefigue, by saying that you have beaten all
your previous records and said the daftest things yet. You have ripped
up the protective hedge previously established around your stupidity and
replanted it a good hundred metres further out in order to spread your
feeble mind over a larger territory than I could have imagined possible."

The "bornes" = bounds, boundary stones, have become a hedge.
I think it's rather clever.


--
Isabelle

[Adam Funk]

I don't think I've ever seen "quartette" or "cornette".


--
Unix is a user-friendly operating system. It's just very choosy about
its friends.

[Ross]

"Quartette" is not uncommon at least on record labels from the past:

Kalama’s Quartette
and other Hawaiian groups
Lloyd Sly Quartette (NZ, 1950s)
Four Farthings Quartette (South Africa)
Southland Ladies Quartette (USA, 1930)
Old South Quartette (Polk Miller) (USA a1928)
Ladies Brass Quartette of Boston (1897)
Brilliant Quartette (1899)
Edison Male Quartette (1890s)
Standard Quartette (1894)
and many others from the 1890s.

[Peter Moylan]

Thank you for that "couillonisme" to add to my vocabulary. I'm sure
there must be a comparable English word, but for now I can't think of one.

[CDB]

On 8/29/2019 4:42 AM, Adam Funk wrote:
> Jerry Friedman wrote:

>> Adam Funk wrote:
>>> Mark Brader wrote:

>>>>> "I keep randomly shouting out 'Broccoli' and 'Cauliflower' -
>>>>> I think I might have florets". (Olaf Falafel)

>>>> That doesn't work for me, because it would never occur to me to
>>>> accent "florets" on the second syllable. If it was pronounced
>>>> that way it'd be spelled "florettes", wouldn't it?

>>> I'm not sure about the relative frequency, but I've definitely
>>> seen "pipet" & "buret" (for "pipette" & "burette"). I think the
>>> shorter forms were in AmE books, & I'd expect the pronunciations
>>> to be the same.

>> Also "briquet" (something like half or a third as common as
>> "briquette" in American English at Google ngrams), "cornet" in
>> American English, and "quartet" and its relatives.

> I don't think I've ever seen "quartette" or "cornette".

The first was in specialised use for a while as the name of a four-woman
singing group that included Sylvia Tyson.

I liked their version of Lightfoot's "Song for a Winter's Night",
especially the parts where individual voices escaped the main line and
accompanied it for a few notes. Is there a technical name for that?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hhlyyB_stuI

[Peter T. Daniels]

On Thursday, August 29, 2019 at 8:40:07 AM UTC-4, CDB wrote:
> On 8/29/2019 4:42 AM, Adam Funk wrote:

> > I don't think I've ever seen "quartette" or "cornette".
>
> The first was in specialised use for a while as the name of a four-woman
> singing group that included Sylvia Tyson.

They seem more recent than the 1890s.

> I liked their version of Lightfoot's "Song for a Winter's Night",
> especially the parts where individual voices escaped the main line and
> accompanied it for a few notes. Is there a technical name for that?
>
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hhlyyB_stuI

Harmony? Solo? Four minutes of incessant maracas means I never want to
hear any of it again.

[Athel Cornish-Bowden]

I would probably have translated it as "bollocks", which preserves the
image. However, Isabelle probably knows better than I do: her English
is as good as mine, and her French is much better.


--
athel

[Jerry Friedman]

Johnston's translation is? I like yours much better. Where do people
get the idea that they can change boundary stones to a protective hedge
or "plus loin" to "a good hundred metres further out"?

Apparently "les bornes de couillonisme" = ModAmE "the boundary markers
of dumbass".

--
Jerry Friedman

[Lanarcam]

Le 29/08/2019 à 16:12, Athel Cornish-Bowden a écrit :
> On 2019-08-29 11:26:08 +0000, Peter Moylan said:
>
>> On 29/08/19 18:27, Isabelle C. wrote:
>>>
>>> It's in _César_.
>>>
>>> "Monsieur Escartefigue, lorsque vous dites des choses pareilles, vous
>>> battez tous les records de stupidité ; c’est-à-dire que vous serrez sur
>>> votre cœur les bornes du couillonisme, et que vous courez à toute
>>> vitesse pour les transporter plus loin, afin d’agrandir votre domaine."
>>>
>>

>> Thank you for that "couillonisme" to add to my vocabulary. I'm sure
>> there must be a comparable English word, but for now I can't think of
>> one.
>
> I would probably have translated it as "bollocks", which preserves the
> image. However, Isabelle probably knows better than I do: her English is
> as good as mine, and her French is much better.
>

It is very difficult to translate. Bollocks would probably be
'couillonnades'.
'Couillonisme' is stupidity as a system. You find this in the TLFI:

"Rem. On rencontre ds la docum. le subst. masc. couillonisme.
Bêtise ou frayeur érigée en système. On ne meurt pas de chagrin,
sois-en sûr. Avoue plutôt que « tu n'oses pas ». Tu te payes à
toi-même, d'une bonne raison, ton couillonisme (Id., ibid.,
1855, p. 190)."

<https://www.cnrtl.fr/definition/couillon>

[Adam Funk]

On 2019-08-29, Isabelle C. wrote:

> Le 28/08/2019 à 17:40, Adam Funk a écrit :
> [...]
>> While Marcel Pagnol is salient, I'd like to ask if you can recall a
>> quote from one of his books where someone says something like "you
>> have not only conquered the land of stupidity but are now trying to
>> move the boundaries to expand your kingdom"? (I think the original
>> ends with "repousser les bornes pour agrandir ton royaume".)
>
> It's in _César_.
>
> "Monsieur Escartefigue, lorsque vous dites des choses pareilles, vous
> battez tous les records de stupidité ; c’est-à-dire que vous serrez sur
> votre cœur les bornes du couillonisme, et que vous courez à toute
> vitesse pour les transporter plus loin, afin d’agrandir votre domaine."

That's it --- thanks! The misremembered words might explain why I
couldn't google it up, but I think I was doing well to remember
"bornes" & "agrandir" from reading it in the early 1980s.

> My attempt at a rather close translation:
> "Mr Escartefigue, when you say such things, you beat all records for
> stupidity; I mean, you're holding close to your breast the boundary
> stones of daftness, and you're running as fast as you can to carry them
> further along, so as to expand your own demesne."
>
> The whole Pagnol trilogy has been translated/adapted into English by
> Michael Johnston:
>
><http://www.akanos.co.uk/works-by-michael-johnston/plays-by-michael-johnston/marius-fanny-cesar-3-plays-translated-by-michael-johnston/>
>
> Here is how he translated those lines:
>
> "Monsieur Escartefigue, by saying that you have beaten all
> your previous records and said the daftest things yet. You have ripped
> up the protective hedge previously established around your stupidity and
> replanted it a good hundred metres further out in order to spread your
> feeble mind over a larger territory than I could have imagined possible."
>
> The "bornes" = bounds, boundary stones, have become a hedge.
> I think it's rather clever.
>
>

--

The human brain, weighing about three pounds, has the computing
power of nearly one billion laptops. The brain has been credited
with notable accomplishments such as the Magna Carta, Special
Relativity, and Hee Haw. [Science Museum of Virginia]

[Adam Funk]

I agree.

> Apparently "les bornes de couillonisme" = ModAmE "the boundary markers
> of dumbass".

I would expect dumbass to know no bounds.


--
Our function calls do not have parameters ---they have
arguments ---and they always win them.
---Klingon Programmer's Guide

[Adam Funk]

Interesting, thanks.


--
There is no Internet of Things. There are only many unpatched,
vulnerable, small computers on the Internet.
@netik

[Adam Funk]

Cf. BrE "he's talking bollocks".


--
With the breakdown of the medieval system, the gods of chaos, lunacy,
and bad taste gained ascendancy. ---Ignatius J Reilly

[CDB]

On 8/29/2019 8:50 AM, Peter T. Daniels wrote:

> CDB wrote:
>> Adam Funk wrote:

>>> I don't think I've ever seen "quartette" or "cornette".

>> The first was in specialised use for a while as the name of a
>> four-woman singing group that included Sylvia Tyson.

> They seem more recent than the 1890s.

>> I liked their version of Lightfoot's "Song for a Winter's Night",
>> especially the parts where individual voices escaped the main line
>> and accompanied it for a few notes. Is there a technical name for
>> that?

>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hhlyyB_stuI

> Harmony? Solo?

There are both of those in the first verse. I mean the parts that begin
at about the 1:26 mark.

> Four minutes of incessant maracas means I never want to hear any of
> it again.

I hear no maracas at all. I think you have either the wrong clip or the
wrong word. Unless it's tinnitus, or bees in your head.

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/maracas

Did you know that your posts are easily identifiable from their style? I
have made the experiment.

I suppose your protestations of contempt for much of what you encounter
must be intended to signal social and intellectual superiority. Do you
imagine crowds of lurkers silently admiring your wit and address?

[Peter T. Daniels]

On Thursday, August 29, 2019 at 11:17:23 AM UTC-4, CDB wrote:
> On 8/29/2019 8:50 AM, Peter T. Daniels wrote:
> > CDB wrote:
> >> Adam Funk wrote:

> >>> I don't think I've ever seen "quartette" or "cornette".
> >> The first was in specialised use for a while as the name of a
> >> four-woman singing group that included Sylvia Tyson.
> > They seem more recent than the 1890s.
> >> I liked their version of Lightfoot's "Song for a Winter's Night",
> >> especially the parts where individual voices escaped the main line
> >> and accompanied it for a few notes. Is there a technical name for
> >> that?
> >> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hhlyyB_stuI
> > Harmony? Solo?
>
> There are both of those in the first verse. I mean the parts that begin
> at about the 1:26 mark.

With the time mark, I can discover what you referred to. The solo line
simply departed from the backup singers -- perfectly ordinary, but perhaps
not so usual when it alternates with the previous close harmony. One song
doesn't usually combine the two arrangement techniques.

> > Four minutes of incessant maracas means I never want to hear any of
> > it again.
>
> I hear no maracas at all. I think you have either the wrong clip or the
> wrong word. Unless it's tinnitus, or bees in your head.

There is some sort of rattling on every beat. What instrument do you
think it is?

It is the main thing that makes all pop music unlistenable -- they have
this _need_ to hear an explicit beat from beginning to end of a work.

It's one of the principal differences between classical and pop music.

Years ago, Naxos published a disc of some European Lieder singer doing
numbers from the Great American Songbook -- with nothing but piano and
voice, exactly as printed in the sheet music -- no bass and drums, no
nothing -- no freedom in the rhythm, no bending of the pitch. It's just
as unlistenable.

Maybe that's why Bernstein was so bad at conducting his own Broadway
scores. He knew how to write them but not how to interpret them.

> https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/maracas
>
> Did you know that your posts are easily identifiable from their style? I
> have made the experiment.

Of course! It's what style is.

[Peter Moylan]

I forget to mention that "demesne" would was a particularly good
translation of "domaine", one that a native English speaker might not
have thought of. Somewhat archaic, but that's what was needed in this case.

[Jerry Friedman]

I left that out because an RR had already mentioned it.

--
Jerry Friedman

[RH Draney]

Google it now and most of the top hits are for a contraceptive drug....

The Raymond Scott Quintette, however, was a six-person ensemble best
known for the composition "Powerhouse", familiar to fans of classic
cartoons:

https://youtu.be/r3FLN0iQ9SQ

....r

[Ross]

On Friday, August 30, 2019 at 3:17:23 AM UTC+12, CDB wrote:
> On 8/29/2019 8:50 AM, Peter T. Daniels wrote:
> > CDB wrote:
> >> Adam Funk wrote:
>
> >>> I don't think I've ever seen "quartette" or "cornette".
>
> >> The first was in specialised use for a while as the name of a
> >> four-woman singing group that included Sylvia Tyson.
>
> > They seem more recent than the 1890s.
>
> >> I liked their version of Lightfoot's "Song for a Winter's Night",
> >> especially the parts where individual voices escaped the main line
> >> and accompanied it for a few notes. Is there a technical name for
> >> that?
>
> >> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hhlyyB_stuI
>
> > Harmony? Solo?
>
> There are both of those in the first verse. I mean the parts that begin
> at about the 1:26 mark.

Finally had time to listen to it. Thanks.
The only percussion I hear is jazz brushes, throughout, but not obtrusive.
As for the vocal, it's just a nice arrangement (apparently by Gwen Swick,
one of the singers) that avoids monotony by alternating four-part with
two-part (I think) and lead/backing textures, with a little bit of
heterophony -- I think that would be the term for where everybody's
singing the same words, but not at exactly the same time.

[HVS]

On Thu, 29 Aug 2019 16:05:52 +0100, Adam Funk <a24...@ducksburg.com>
wrote:

> On 2019-08-29, Jerry Friedman wrote:

-snip -

> > Apparently "les bornes de couillonisme" = ModAmE "the boundary
markers
> > of dumbass".

> I would expect dumbass to know no bounds.

Is there an equivalent of Godwin's Law where an unspoken "Hitler" is
replaced with "Trump"?

--
Cheers, Harvey

[RH Draney]

That's what they call "a difference that makes no difference"....r

[GordonD]

On 27/08/2019 15:27, Lewis wrote:
> In message <qk2u6u$ksr$1...@news.albasani.net> Katy Jennison
> <ka...@spamtrap.kjennison.com> wrote:
>> On 26/08/2019 22:37, Quinn C wrote:
>>> * Peter Duncanson [BrE]:
>>>
>>>> On Mon, 26 Aug 2019 10:57:55 -0700 (PDT), "Peter T. Daniels"
>>>> <gram...@verizon.net> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On Monday, August 26, 2019 at 1:26:00 PM UTC-4, HVS wrote:
>>>>>> On Mon, 26 Aug 2019 19:04:06 +0200, occam
>>>>>> <oc...@invalid.nix> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>> Every year around this time, the Edinburgh Fringe
>>>>>>> Festival hosts a
>>>>>> large
>>>>>>> number of stand-up comedy shows. Somehow, someone
>>>>>>> somewhere decides
>>>>>> what
>>>>>>> is the 'best' joke.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Source:
>>>>>> https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-scotland-edinburgh-east-fife-49389208
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
This year's winner:
>>>>>>> (2019)

>>>>>>
>>>>>>> "I keep randomly shouting out 'Broccoli' and
>>>>>>> 'Cauliflower' - I
>>>>>> think I
>>>>>>> might have florets". (Olaf Falafel)
>>>>>>

>>>>>> There's been no end of complaints about that from the
>>>>>> relevant disability group.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> (That begs for a one-liner response, but I ain't gonna make
>>>>>> it......)
>>>>>
>>>>> Is "floret" some sort of nickname or epithet for some sort of
>>>>> disability? The stress pattern keeps it even from being a
>>>>> remembrance of "Tourette's" (knowing that you insist on
>>>>> "fillet" instead of "filet" and "garridge" for "garage").

>>>>
>>>> A floret is part of the structure of certain types of
>>>> vegetable including 'Broccoli' and 'Cauliflower'. 'Florets'
>>>> rhymes with 'Tourettes'.
>>>

>>> Well, that's the issue. The joke suggests that "florets" is an
>>> (imagined) disease, but it didn't sound disease-like to me,
>>> either in general form or by similarity with an existing one. I
>>> didn't even think of Tourette's.
>>>
>>> Even in BrE, according to Collins, both the stress pattern and
>>> the first vowel are different (FLAW-rets, too-RETS), so I guess
>>> it's no more than "they both end in -rets".
>>>
>
>> Readers of aue will understand from this thread why, on my annual
>> trip to the Edinburgh Festival, during which I'm going from one to
>> another Festival venue all day for a week, I spend none of that
>> time whatsoever at any of the Fringe events.
>
> I've only ever heard of the Edinburgh Festival in reference to the
> Fringe events. In fact, until this post, I thought it was the
> Edinburgh Fringe Festival and know it as a comedy related showcase
> sort of event.


That's because people call it by the wrong name. It's not the Edinburgh
Fringe Festival, it's the Edinburgh Festival Fringe and it started out
as events that were on the edge of the official bash. Eventually it
became much bigger than the 'real' thing but not nearly as highbrow.
Comedy is by far the most common genre but by no means all of it.

As an Edinburgh resident who tends to keep his head down until the thing
is over, the problem these days is in finding something worthwhile
attending. Ticket prices have of course increased and whereas ten or
fifteen years ago a show might cost a couple of quid these days the
minimum seems to be a tenner. Picking a show at random back then wasn't
a major gamble - if it was no good then you didn't mind wasting the
price of a pint but now you need to be a lot more careful. The only
guarantee of seeing a decent show is to pick one of the big names, and
those are the ones that sell out quickly because everybody else is
thinking the same thing.

--
Gordon Davie
Edinburgh, Scotland

[Peter T. Daniels]

The they that I know call it "a distinction without a difference."

[CDB]

On 8/29/2019 6:16 PM, Ross wrote:

Thanks to you and Peter for the explanations; and thanks for the word
"heterophony".

[Peter T. Daniels]

On Friday, August 30, 2019 at 10:12:23 AM UTC-4, CDB wrote:

> Thanks to you and Peter for the explanations; and thanks for the word
> "heterophony".

It's part of a set. Monophony is a single voice performing a single line.

Homophony is multiple voices performing in rhythmic unity (a hymn, for instance.)

Polyphony is multiple voices each performing their own line. (A fugue, for
instance. JSB perfected the by-then obsolete form of the fugue, and when he
was "rediscovered" late in the 18th century, counterpoint (polyphony) had a
great resurgence. Compare Handel's fugues, where the voices start out in
strict imitation but they soon degenerate into mostly homophonic texture.
(Two examples in the Hallelujah Chorus itself.))

[Jerry Friedman]

"Homophony" seems to have the sense that all the voices start and end
the syllables together, but I can't find any meaning for "heterophony"
other than two or more variations of a melody played at the same
time, as in some jazz, Asian music, etc.

--
Jerry Friedman

[Kerr-Mudd,John]

A couple of quid a pint back then?! Blimey!

these days the
> minimum seems to be a tenner. Picking a show at random back then wasn't
> a major gamble - if it was no good then you didn't mind wasting the
> price of a pint but now you need to be a lot more careful. The only
> guarantee of seeing a decent show is to pick one of the big names, and
> those are the ones that sell out quickly because everybody else is
> thinking the same thing.
>



--

Bah, and indeed, Humbug.

[Quinn C]

* GordonD:

> On 27/08/2019 15:27, Lewis wrote:
>>
>> I've only ever heard of the Edinburgh Festival in reference to the
>> Fringe events. In fact, until this post, I thought it was the
>> Edinburgh Fringe Festival and know it as a comedy related showcase
>> sort of event.
>
> That's because people call it by the wrong name. It's not the Edinburgh
> Fringe Festival, it's the Edinburgh Festival Fringe and it started out
> as events that were on the edge of the official bash. Eventually it
> became much bigger than the 'real' thing but not nearly as highbrow.
> Comedy is by far the most common genre but by no means all of it.

Well, it engendered a whole new genre of festival, so the confusion is
understandable. The Montreal Fringe Festival, like many similar ones,
is it's own thing and not on the fringe of another.

<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fringe_theatre>

--
If the aeroplane industry had advanced at the same rate as the
computer industry, today's planes could circumnavigate the world
in ten seconds, be two inches long, and crash twice a day.
Peter Moylan in alt.usage.english

[RH Draney]

Also, thw words "homophony" and "polyphony" are among the longest
English words (together with "homophyly", "polyphyly" and "nonillion")
touch-typed entirely with the right hand....

("On opium poppy, in my opinion, my milk hippo will unpin my pink nylon
kimono")....r

[Peter T. Daniels]

What's a milk hippo?

[RH Draney]

Two fifty, same as in town....r

[Quinn C]

* Peter T. Daniels:

What's a milk cow?

--
In the old days, the complaints about the passing of the
golden age were much more sophisticated.
-- James Hogg in alt.usage.english

[Tony Cooper]

One that interests you less than a milf hippo.
--
Tony Cooper - Orlando, Florida

[CDB]

On 8/30/2019 5:37 PM, Peter T. Daniels wrote:

> RH Draney wrote:
>> Peter T. Daniels wrote:

>>> CDB wrote:

>>>> Thanks to you and Peter for the explanations; and thanks for
>>>> the word "heterophony".
>>> It's part of a set. Monophony is a single voice performing a
>>> single line. Homophony is multiple voices performing in rhythmic
>>> unity (a hymn, for instance.) Polyphony is multiple voices each
>>> performing their own line. (A fugue, for instance. JSB perfected
>>> the by-then obsolete form of the fugue, and when he was
>>> "rediscovered" late in the 18th century, counterpoint (polyphony)
>>> had a great resurgence. Compare Handel's fugues, where the voices
>>> start out in strict imitation but they soon degenerate into
>>> mostly homophonic texture. (Two examples in the Hallelujah Chorus
>>> itself.))

I will have to listen carefully to them.

I have thought of another, somewhat similar, example from my youth (I
think my father had this album): "Where's My Bess?". I thought of
Porgy's voice, at the time, as a dark tree, and of the chorus as birds
fluttering from branch to branch.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F8IVxvV9Lu4

I'm starting to wonder if the term I'm looking for should include the
word "descant".

>> Also, thw words "homophony" and "polyphony" are among the longest
>> English words (together with "homophyly", "polyphyly" and
>> "nonillion") touch-typed entirely with the right hand....

>> ("On opium poppy, in my opinion, my milk hippo will unpin my pink
>> nylon kimono")....r

> What's a milk hippo?

An assymetric milch hippo.

[Peter T. Daniels]

On Friday, August 30, 2019 at 9:16:14 PM UTC-4, CDB wrote:
> On 8/30/2019 5:37 PM, Peter T. Daniels wrote:
> > RH Draney wrote:
> >> Peter T. Daniels wrote:
> >>> CDB wrote:
>
> >>>> Thanks to you and Peter for the explanations; and thanks for
> >>>> the word "heterophony".
> >>> It's part of a set. Monophony is a single voice performing a
> >>> single line. Homophony is multiple voices performing in rhythmic
> >>> unity (a hymn, for instance.) Polyphony is multiple voices each
> >>> performing their own line. (A fugue, for instance. JSB perfected
> >>> the by-then obsolete form of the fugue, and when he was
> >>> "rediscovered" late in the 18th century, counterpoint (polyphony)
> >>> had a great resurgence. Compare Handel's fugues, where the voices
> >>> start out in strict imitation but they soon degenerate into
> >>> mostly homophonic texture. (Two examples in the Hallelujah Chorus
> >>> itself.))
>
> I will have to listen carefully to them.
>
> I have thought of another, somewhat similar, example from my youth (I
> think my father had this album): "Where's My Bess?". I thought of
> Porgy's voice, at the time, as a dark tree, and of the chorus as birds
> fluttering from branch to branch.
>
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F8IVxvV9Lu4

"Video unavailable This video is not available"

I don't recall the aria; maybe it was an arrangement specific to that
album.

> I'm starting to wonder if the term I'm looking for should include the
> word "descant".

From your description I thought that was what it might be, but it wasn't
-- a descant is when the main singer(s) continue on the melody while a
soloist (or small group) adds a countermelody at a higher pitch that
"decorates" the tune, often using a shortened variant of the same text.

[Athel Cornish-Bowden]

Is that worth an Oy! ?


> milch hippo.


--
athel

[CDB]

I am puzzled. I tried the URL as printed above, and got through. I was
an American recording. I suspect most versions of the piece would have
a similar arrangement.

> I don't recall the aria; maybe it was an arrangement specific to that
> album.

>> I'm starting to wonder if the term I'm looking for should include
>> the word "descant".

> From your description I thought that was what it might be, but it
> wasn't -- a descant is when the main singer(s) continue on the
> melody while a soloist (or small group) adds a countermelody at a
> higher pitch that "decorates" the tune, often using a shortened
> variant of the same text.

Thanks for your patience. It looks as if I will have to make up my own
term, if ever I urgently need one.

[CDB]

On 8/31/2019 1:22 PM, Athel Cornish-Bowden wrote:

Because the beast has no tail? I admit that that version is less
common, but it does exist: "assymetric advantage", "assymetric warfare".

The war of the left hand against the right.

>> milch hippo.

[Peter T. Daniels]

Your squiggler should have squiggled "assymetric." It's not ad- with
assimilation, but merely a-.

Oddly, my squiggler squiggles "milch."

[Ross]

It's the second-last item, before "I"m on my way".

Here's another version:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U935x5FUKlY

I'd say this was actually contrapuntal. Porgy sings the first verse,
then the women join with another part (or two or three) with different
words, moving around the very slow male voice. The image of tree and
birds seems very apt.

[Peter T. Daniels]

That one worked. I wish the production were identified. The last time I
saw it, it was *The Gershwins' Porgy and Bess* on Broadway with Audra
McDonald.

This is a simplification of a standard way to end an act or especially
a whole opera, with the entire cast of principals singing their own
line and their own words, normally expressing a wide variety of emotions.
The technique was perfected by Mozart and Rossini; I don't think it
happens much in Verdi or Puccini. I say "simplification" because here
it's presented as Porgy's solo while everyone else does their own line
in a largely homophonic manner. But check out the closing scenes of
*Cosi fan tutte* (comedy) and *Marriage of Figaro* (ends in a _seria_
mood). Rossini's *Cenerentola*'s music turns out to be hilarious -- if
the director doesn't try to override it with comic business during the
finale.

[Paul Wolff]

On Thu, 29 Aug 2019, at 09:55:48, Jerry Friedman

<jerry_f...@yahoo.com> posted:
>On Wednesday, August 28, 2019 at 10:41:32 AM UTC-6, Paul Wolff wrote:
>> On Wed, 28 Aug 2019, at 09:05:00, Jerry Friedman
>> >On Wednesday, August 28, 2019 at 9:30:28 AM UTC-6, Adam Funk wrote:
>> >> On 2019-08-27, Mark Brader wrote:
>> >>
>> >> >> "I keep randomly shouting out 'Broccoli' and 'Cauliflower' - I think I
>> >> >> might have florets". (Olaf Falafel)
>> >> >
>> >> > That doesn't work for me, because it would never occur to me to accent
>> >> > "florets" on the second syllable. If it was pronounced that way it'd
>> >> > be spelled "florettes", wouldn't it?
>> >>
>> >> I'm not sure about the relative frequency, but I've definitely seen
>> >> "pipet" & "buret" (for "pipette" & "burette"). I think the shorter
>> >> forms were in AmE books, & I'd expect the pronunciations to be the
>> >> same.
>> >
>> >Also "briquet" (something like half or a third as common as "briquette"
>> >in American English at Google ngrams), "cornet" in American English,
>> >and "quartet" and its relatives.
>> >
>> Cadet, while we're at it.
>
>I left that out because an RR had already mentioned it.
>

Ah so, my suspicions are confirmed - one of me is my doppelgänger.
--
Paul

[Sam Plusnet]

Does that mean you are a BOGOF?

--
Sam Plusnet

[Peter Moylan]

To my great surprise, a web search for "assymetric -asymmetric" turned
up over a million results. I didn't check them all.

The search also turned up this interesting web site
http://www.dumbtionary.com/
which is effectively a dictionary for bad spellers.

--
Peter Moylan http://www.pmoylan.org
Newcastle, NSW, Australia

[CDB]

On 8/31/2019 5:03 PM, Peter T. Daniels wrote:
> CDB wrote:

>> Athel Cornish-Bowden wrote:
>>> CDB said:
>>>> Peter T. Daniels wrote:
>>>>> RH Draney wrote:

>>>>>> Also, thw words "homophony" and "polyphony" are among the
>>>>>> longest English words (together with "homophyly",
>>>>>> "polyphyly" and "nonillion") touch-typed entirely with the
>>>>>> right hand.... ("On opium poppy, in my opinion, my milk
>>>>>> hippo will unpin my pink nylon kimono")....r
>>>>> What's a milk hippo?
>>>> An assymetric
>>> Is that worth an Oy! ?

>> Because the beast has no tail? I admit that that version is less
>> common, but it does exist: "assymetric advantage", "assymetric
>> warfare".

>> The war of the left hand against the right.

>>>> milch hippo.

> Your squiggler should have squiggled "assymetric." It's not ad- with
> assimilation, but merely a-.

My, my. I don't often lose that kind of brain-cell. I suppose it was
because the "s" remains unvoiced.

Disconsolate thanks to you and Athel.

> Oddly, my squiggler squiggles "milch."

I do not keep a ssquiggler.

[CDB]

On 8/31/2019 8:35 PM, Peter Moylan wrote:

> CDB wrote:
>> Athel Cornish-Bowden wrote:
>>> CDB said:

>>>> An assymetric

>>> Is that worth an Oy! ?

>> Because the beast has no tail? I admit that that version is less
>> common, but it does exist: "assymetric advantage", "assymetric
>> warfare".

> To my great surprise, a web search for "assymetric -asymmetric"
> turned up over a million results. I didn't check them all.

> The search also turned up this interesting web site
> http://www.dumbtionary.com/ which is effectively a dictionary for bad
> spellers.

Bookmarked in silence.

[Peter T. Daniels]

I wish I could discover how to turn it off -- and how to stop _something_
from "correcting" my spelling.

[Jerry Friedman]

On 9/1/19 6:42 AM, CDB wrote:
> On 8/31/2019 5:03 PM, Peter T. Daniels wrote:

...

>> Oddly, my squiggler squiggles "milch."
>
> I do not keep a ssquiggler.

Why keep a squiggler when Usenet is so cheap?

--
Jerry Friedman

[bill van]

I've turned off spell-checking in some applications, including my current
newsreader. You'd have to check each app to see if that's possible.
If it is, it means that you can lose the stupid errors that a rogue
spillchucker
can make, but you have to live with your own dumb spelling mistakes, if any.

bill

[Sam Plusnet]

Doesn't google perform the same service?

--
Sam Plusnet

[Peter T. Daniels]

It might be Verizon Yahoo (because it does it to my email also), it might
be MSEdge, and it might be Google Groups because the others don't even
offer squiggles after you correct it back.

[Kerr-Mudd,John]

I find myself without such automagic corekshun (but wouldn't want it any
other way).

Correction, I meant to "correction".

[CDB]

On 9/1/2019 3:51 PM, Sam Plusnet wrote:

> CDB wrote:
>> Peter Moylan wrote:

>>> The search also turned up this interesting web site
>>> http://www.dumbtionary.com/ which is effectively a dictionary for
>>> bad spellers.

>> Bookmarked in silence.

> Doesn't google perform the same service?

Ommmmm.

[CDB]

On 9/1/2019 9:41 AM, Jerry Friedman wrote:

> CDB wrote:
>> Peter T. Daniels wrote:
> ...

>>> Oddly, my squiggler squiggles "milch."

>> I do not keep a ssquiggler.

> Why keep a squiggler when Usenet is so cheap?

Here there be dragons.

[Adam Funk]

On 2019-08-30, Peter T. Daniels wrote:

> On Friday, August 30, 2019 at 10:12:23 AM UTC-4, CDB wrote:
>
>> Thanks to you and Peter for the explanations; and thanks for the word
>> "heterophony".
>
> It's part of a set. Monophony is a single voice performing a single line.
>
> Homophony is multiple voices performing in rhythmic unity (a hymn, for instance.)
>
> Polyphony is multiple voices each performing their own line. (A fugue, for
> instance. JSB perfected the by-then obsolete form of the fugue, and when he
> was "rediscovered" late in the 18th century, counterpoint (polyphony) had a
> great resurgence. Compare Handel's fugues, where the voices start out in
> strict imitation but they soon degenerate into mostly homophonic texture.
> (Two examples in the Hallelujah Chorus itself.))

My son (who is quite musical) was telling me about something he'd been
working on, & I told him it sounded a bit like counterpoint, which I
briefly explained. Because I'm not musically talented, he asked how I
knew about such things. I told him I liked baroque music.

He said, "So you like *all three* kinds --- hard rock, prog rock, &
ba-roque!"


--
Cats don't have friends. They have co-conspirators.
http://www.gocomics.com/getfuzzy/2015/05/31

[Adam Funk]

On 2019-08-30, Peter T. Daniels wrote:

> On Friday, August 30, 2019 at 2:58:57 PM UTC-4, RH Draney wrote:

>> On 8/30/2019 8:27 AM, Peter T. Daniels wrote:
>> > On Friday, August 30, 2019 at 10:12:23 AM UTC-4, CDB wrote:
>
>> >> Thanks to you and Peter for the explanations; and thanks for the word
>> >> "heterophony".
>> > It's part of a set. Monophony is a single voice performing a single line.
>> > Homophony is multiple voices performing in rhythmic unity (a hymn, for instance.)
>> > Polyphony is multiple voices each performing their own line. (A fugue, for
>> > instance. JSB perfected the by-then obsolete form of the fugue, and when he
>> > was "rediscovered" late in the 18th century, counterpoint (polyphony) had a
>> > great resurgence. Compare Handel's fugues, where the voices start out in
>> > strict imitation but they soon degenerate into mostly homophonic texture.
>> > (Two examples in the Hallelujah Chorus itself.))
>>

>> Also, thw words "homophony" and "polyphony" are among the longest
>> English words (together with "homophyly", "polyphyly" and "nonillion")
>> touch-typed entirely with the right hand....
>>
>> ("On opium poppy, in my opinion, my milk hippo will unpin my pink nylon
>> kimono")....r
>
> What's a milk hippo?

Well, hippos are mammals, so it's theoretically possible --- but I
wouldn't like to try.


--
There's no money in poetry, but there's no poetry in
money either. ---Robert Graves