Does the symbol "@" have a name?
Jitze Couperus
In article <3277E8...@mail.idt.net>, mur...@mail.idt.net wrote:
> We all use @, but does it have a name? Where did it come from and what
> was its original usage?
It is technically known as an atgry. Derived from Heraldic English
"at gryphon" which accounts for its shape as well.
Jitze
Mike Murphy
Daan Sandee
In article <couperus-301...@jc.svl.cdc.com> coup...@cdc.com (Jitze Couperus) writes:
>In article <3277E8...@mail.idt.net>, mur...@mail.idt.net wrote:
>
>> was its original usage?
>
>"at gryphon" which accounts for its shape as well.
>
>Jitze
Actually, the shape is that of an orange being peeled, which is why
the German word for it is "Apfelsinenstrudel."
Daan Sandee
Burlington, MA san...@think.com
jerry thompson
Jitze Couperus wrote:
>
> In article <3277E8...@mail.idt.net>, mur...@mail.idt.net wrote:
>
> > We all use @, but does it have a name? Where did it come from and what
> > was its original usage?
>
> It is technically known as an atgry. Derived from Heraldic English
> "at gryphon" which accounts for its shape as well.
>
> Jitze
Now, that's nice to know! Thank you.
Admiral Jota
jerry thompson <jerev...@worldnet.att.net> writes:
>Jitze Couperus wrote:
>> In article <3277E8...@mail.idt.net>, mur...@mail.idt.net wrote:
>> > We all use @, but does it have a name? Where did it come from and what
>> > was its original usage?
>> It is technically known as an atgry. Derived from Heraldic English
>> "at gryphon" which accounts for its shape as well.
>Now, that's nice to know! Thank you.
Gimme a T! Gimme an R! Gimme an O! Gimme an L! Gimme an L!
Now what's that spell?
I can't hear you!
One more time!
--
/<-= -=-=- -= Admiral Jota =- -=-=- =->\
__/><-=- http://www.tiac.net/users/jota/ =-><\__
\><-= jo...@mv.mv.com -- Finger for PGP =-></
\<-=- -= -=- -= -==- =- -=- =- -=->/
Martin Cleaver
Hi Daan,
In a message of <Thu 31 Oct 96 11:24> to All (2:280/204.999), you wrote:
A>> We all use @, but does it have a name? Where did it come from and what
A>> was its original usage?
A>
A>It is technically known as an atgry. Derived from Heraldic English
A>"at gryphon" which accounts for its shape as well.
DS> Actually, the shape is that of an orange being peeled, which is why
DS> the German word for it is "Apfelsinenstrudel."
That must be why the Dutch call it an apestaartje (monkey's tail)...
DS> Daan Sandee
But then you probably know that. Are you Dutch yourself?
Greetings,
Martin Cleaver
(mcle...@artnet.xs4all.nl)
--
> Martin Cleaver MCTranslations/ArtNet Amsterdam <
> mcle...@xs4all.nl mcle...@artnet.xs4all.nl <
> phone: +31 20 6162224 phax: +31 20 6838188 <
> home page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~mcleaver <
Fredrick Rea O'Keefe
Simple -- I've never heard it called anything other than "at" or "at sign"
or "at symbol"? I've always (35 years) used it as a self devised shorthand
for "at."
Regards,
--
Rick O'Keefe, Tampa FL
fred...@gte.net
Truly Donovan
Fredrick Rea O'Keefe wrote:
>
> Simple -- I've never heard it called anything other than "at" or "at sign"
> or "at symbol"? I've always (35 years) used it as a self devised shorthand
> for "at."
Self-devised? Amazing that it should have arisen spontaneously in so
many places. . . .
--
Truly Donovan
"Industrial-strength SGML," Prentice Hall 1996
ISBN 0-13-216243-1
http://www.prenhall.com
Steve MacGregor
san...@think.com.nospam (Daan Sandee) wrote:
>Actually, the shape is that of an orange being peeled, which is why
>the German word for it is "Apfelsinenstrudel."
Then Victor Engel <St...@The-Light.com> wrote in article
<327dab9f...@news.onr.com>...
>Apfel is German for apple, not orange.
True, but irrelevant: "Apfelsine" is German for "orange", not for
some kind of apple.
--
=======================================================
Reunite Gondwanaland!
=======================================================
Keith C. Ivey
G Sumner Hayes <sum...@CMU.EDU> wrote:
>d...@crl.com (David A. Kaye) writes:
>> Jitze Couperus wrote the quoted material below:
>>
>> " It is technically known as an atgry. Derived from Heraldic English
>> " "at gryphon" which accounts for its shape as well.
>>
>> So, what you're saying is that there are really FOUR words that end in
>> "gry", one of the puzzles hanging over the heads of Usenetters for nearly
>> a year.
>>
>I've never heard the puzzle in question, but the plural of "atgry" is
>"atgrynge" which rhymes with "orange".
>In Nordic heraldry, the gryphon was often a steed for the troll.
I thought an atgrynge was the strip of grass between the street
and the walk.
Keith C. Ivey <kci...@cpcug.org> Washington, DC
Contributing Editor/Webmaster
The Editorial Eye <http://www.eeicom.com/eye/>
Daan Sandee
In article <327dab9f...@news.onr.com> St...@The-Light.com writes:
>san...@think.com.nospam (Daan Sandee) wrote:
>
>>Actually, the shape is that of an orange being peeled, which is why
>>the German word for it is "Apfelsinenstrudel."
>
You might try a dictionary. You know, a book with long words in it.
Words longer than two syllables, that is. The German language has
many of them, such as Apfelsine, or Dudelsackenpfeifenmachergesellschaft.
Daan Sandee
Burlington, MA Use this email address: san...@cmns.think.com
Fredrick Rea O'Keefe
Hmmm. The intention of the sentence is "self devised shorthand." Now why
ain't it clear?
Truly Donovan <tr...@lunemere.com> wrote in article
<327A4B...@lunemere.com>...
ds...@cameonet.cameo.com.tw
Keith C. Ivey (kci...@cpcug.org) quoted --
>> I've never heard the puzzle in question, but the plural of "atgry" is
>> "atgrynge" which rhymes with "orange".
>
>> In Nordic heraldry, the gryphon was often a steed for the troll.
and wrote --
> I thought an atgrynge was the strip of grass between the street
> and the walk.
Evidently you've spent some time in New York and have "atgrynge"
mixed up with "grunge."
Dan Strychalski ds...@cameonet.cameo.com.tw
A New Yorker in Taiwan, living on one of many streets with no sidewalk,
nor even a "walk".... Hoping to experience grass before passing on....
Victor Engel
"Steve MacGregor" <Stev...@GoodNet.Com> wrote:
> True, but irrelevant: "Apfelsine" is German for "orange", not for
>some kind of apple.
Thanks. I needed that.
-----------------------------------------------------------
Victor Engel Vector Angle
St...@The-Light.com lig...@onr.com
http://the-light.com http://www.onr.com/user/lights
The Chocolate Lady (Davida Chazan)
I say, wasn't that coup...@cdc.com (Jitze Couperus) who wrote:
>In article <3277E8...@mail.idt.net>, mur...@mail.idt.net wrote:
>> We all use @, but does it have a name? Where did it come from and what
>> was its original usage?
>It is technically known as an atgry. Derived from Heraldic English
>"at gryphon" which accounts for its shape as well.
Absolutely correct. And you should also know that when pronounced
correctly, it rhymes with 'orange' (assuming you are also pronouncing
orange correctly). The full definition of 'atgry' will answer the
question about if you should say 'an atgry' or 'a atgry' and if you
should spell more than one atgry as "atgry's" or "atgrys" or "atgrys'
".
Davida (@ the center of the aue universe) Chazan
"Violence gnaws away at the basis of democracy...
peace truely doesn't only exist in prayers."
Yitzhak Rabin z"l from his last speech on November 4, 1995
Truly Donovan
Fredrick Rea O'Keefe wrote:
>
> Hmmm. The intention of the sentence is "self devised shorthand." Now why
> ain't it clear?
Who said it ain't clear? I was simply commenting on the felicity of your
having devised this shorthand that was so commonly in use by the time you
devised it.
G Sumner Hayes
dav...@jdc.org.il (The Chocolate Lady (Davida Chazan)) writes:
>
> Absolutely correct. And you should also know that when pronounced
> correctly, it rhymes with 'orange' (assuming you are also pronouncing
> orange correctly). The full definition of 'atgry' will answer the
> question about if you should say 'an atgry' or 'a atgry' and if you
> should spell more than one atgry as "atgry's" or "atgrys" or "atgrys'
> ".
No, you're confused. "Atgry" doesn't rhyme with "orange". The
plural, though, is "atgrynge" which _does_ rhyme with "orange".
Sheesh.
Cordially,
Sumner
Please don't CC: postings to me, my mailbox is already full enough.
Keith C. Ivey
"Fredrick Rea O'Keefe" <fred...@gte.net> wrote:
>Hmmm. The intention of the sentence is "self devised shorthand." Now why
>ain't it clear?
>Truly Donovan <tr...@lunemere.com> wrote in article
><327A4B...@lunemere.com>...
>> Fredrick Rea O'Keefe wrote:
>>> I've always (35 years) used it as a self devised shorthand for "at."
>>
>> Self-devised? Amazing that it should have arisen spontaneously in so
>> many places. . . .
I suppose that, strictly speaking, "a self-devised shorthand"
means a shorthand that devised itself. To me, however, "a self-
devised shorthand" is a shorthand you devised yourself. So you
seem to be claiming that you invented the at sign (hence Truly's
skepticism). What does "self-devised" mean to you?
Gareth Williams
Thus spake G Sumner Hayes <sum...@CMU.EDU> :
+No, you're confused. "Atgry" doesn't rhyme with "orange". The
+plural, though, is "atgrynge" which _does_ rhyme with "orange".
+Sheesh.
+
No, I think it is you who is confused. Atgrynge is clearly an
intransitive verb derived from atgry with the meaning of 'to behave
like an atgry'. It describes dropping from a great height onto an
unsuspecting uae transgressor (rather like a fighter plane) calling
'atatatatatatatat'.
Related to calling someone a FAQing nuisance.
regards
Gareth Williams <g...@fmode.demon.co.uk>
doy...@aol.com
+No, you're confused. "Atgry" doesn't rhyme with "orange". The
+plural, though, is "atgrynge" which _does_ rhyme with "orange".
+Sheesh.
All of you are wrong! "Atgrynge" does not rhyme with "orange." The last
syllable of each rhyme, but the words do not. Both words are accented on
the first syllable, not the last. If those two words rhyme than "hermit"
rhymes with "rabbit" and "babble" with "giggle." Etc.
Orange does not have a true rhyme. If "atgrynge" rhymes with "orange"
then a more common word in English would be the answer to this age-old
question: "cringe."
Is "atgryne" accented on the first or last syllable? Either way my
argument holds.
Doyle60
G Sumner Hayes
You are obviously unfamiliar with the proper pronunciation of the word
atgrynge. It does indeed rhyme with orange; it is one of many English
words which are not pronounced as they are spelled. I don't know the
weird ASCII symbols, but I pronounce orange as "OHR ringe". Atgrynge
is pronounced "a TOHR grynge". (Think of it as adding a few letters
to the word orange: atorgrange. Accent on the second syllable.) The
spelling is a holdout from Chaucer.
Curiously enough, I've heard some people who speak a U.S.A. Gulf
dialect use atgrynge in the singular despite the fact that it is
obviously the plural of atgry. Of course, most people just use the
incorrect "atgries". Furrfu.
Just goes to show that you shouldn't adopt Norse monstrosities into
the English language.
Cordially,
Sumner Hayes
--
Respond by post or email, but please don't CC: postings to me; my mailbox
is already quite full.
Bob Cunningham
Geoff Butler <ge...@gbutler.demon.co.uk> said:
>In article <ImY4EQ600...@andrew.cmu.edu>, G Sumner Hayes
><sum...@CMU.EDU> writes
>>[snip]
>>Curiously enough, I've heard some people who speak a U.S.A. Gulf
>>dialect use atgrynge in the singular despite the fact that it is
>>obviously the plural of atgry. Of course, most people just use the
>>incorrect "atgries". Furrfu.
>
>No, you're definitely wrong there. I've always listened to all Gulf
>dialect speakers all the time, and they always don't use 'atgrynge' in
>the singular at all ever.
There is one exception to that, according to some speakers I've
conversed with: When they are addressing one of a pair of identical
twins and they're not sure which one it is, they use the plural
"atgrynge". This leads some people to think "atgrynge" is being used in
the singular, but what's really happening is that they're addressing
both twins, so that whichever one it is they are conversing with will be
sure to be included.
"Atgrynge" has special importance to those who concern themselves
with correct pronunciation. In order to pronounce it at all you have to
call "y" a vowel. Some days you can't pronounce it at all because, as
we all know from elementary school, "y" is only sometimes a vowel.
Geoff Butler
In article <ImY4EQ600...@andrew.cmu.edu>, G Sumner Hayes
<sum...@CMU.EDU> writes
>[snip]
>Curiously enough, I've heard some people who speak a U.S.A. Gulf
>dialect use atgrynge in the singular despite the fact that it is
>obviously the plural of atgry. Of course, most people just use the
>incorrect "atgries". Furrfu.
No, you're definitely wrong there. I've always listened to all Gulf
dialect speakers all the time, and they always don't use 'atgrynge' in
the singular at all ever.
-ler
Jitze Couperus
>
> You are obviously unfamiliar with the proper pronunciation of the word
> atgrynge. It does indeed rhyme with orange; it is one of many English
> words which are not pronounced as they are spelled. I don't know the
> weird ASCII symbols, but I pronounce orange as "OHR ringe". Atgrynge
> is pronounced "a TOHR grynge". (Think of it as adding a few letters
> to the word orange: atorgrange. Accent on the second syllable.) The
> spelling is a holdout from Chaucer.
>
> Curiously enough, I've heard some people who speak a U.S.A. Gulf
> dialect use atgrynge in the singular despite the fact that it is
> obviously the plural of atgry. Of course, most people just use the
> incorrect "atgries". Furrfu.
>
> Just goes to show that you shouldn't adopt Norse monstrosities into
> the English language.
>
> Cordially,
>
> Sumner Hayes
>
Piece of Trivia -
There is an interesting history to this word - The chap who wrote the
crossword puzzles for The Times (London) during World War II considered
it unusual enough that he included it in a crossword just before D day.
At the same time, Eisenhower chose it as a code word designating a beach
on Normandy for the same reason.
Then when the crossword was published, uproar ensued because the authorities
thought that this was too much of a coincidence - and that this was
probably a sneaky way of getting the information to the enemy.
As a result, the code word was changed to "Utah" and the rest is history.
JItze
00nzwi...@bsuvc.bsu.edu
In article <56qup1$c...@news3.digex.net>, kci...@cpcug.org (Keith C. Ivey) writes:
> G Sumner Hayes <sum...@CMU.EDU> wrote:
>
>>You are obviously unfamiliar with the proper pronunciation
>>of the word atgrynge. It does indeed rhyme with orange; it
>>is one of many English words which are not pronounced as
>>they are spelled. I don't know the weird ASCII symbols,
>>but I pronounce orange as "OHR ringe". Atgrynge is
>>pronounced "a TOHR grynge".
>
> rhyme with "orange", because of that pesky /g/ in the middle.
> Fortunately, the correct pronunciation of "atgrynge" is
> /@ 'tOr @ndZ/ ("uh TOR unj")--or /@ 'tA.r @ndZ/ in the UK.
> The first "g" is pronounced like an "o", following a spelling
> reform proposed by G. B. Shaw.
>
> Keith,
I don't know this word and cannot find it in my dictionaries. I have
no investment in the above discussion, but it is curious to me that
you insist the rhyme is not there because of the pesky G. How far
back from the end of a word must one begin to establish a rhyme? I
wouldn't even insist that the letter R appear in the word? I would
have thought that the final vowel and consonant would suffice.--
Nyal Z. Williams
00nzwi...@bsuvc.bsu.edu
Keith C. Ivey
G Sumner Hayes <sum...@CMU.EDU> wrote:
>You are obviously unfamiliar with the proper pronunciation
>of the word atgrynge. It does indeed rhyme with orange; it
>is one of many English words which are not pronounced as
>they are spelled. I don't know the weird ASCII symbols,
>but I pronounce orange as "OHR ringe". Atgrynge is
>pronounced "a TOHR grynge".
No, you still haven't quite gotten it; "a TOHR grynge" doesn't
rhyme with "orange", because of that pesky /g/ in the middle.
Fortunately, the correct pronunciation of "atgrynge" is
/@ 'tOr @ndZ/ ("uh TOR unj")--or /@ 'tA.r @ndZ/ in the UK.
The first "g" is pronounced like an "o", following a spelling
reform proposed by G. B. Shaw.
Keith C. Ivey <kci...@cpcug.org> Washington, DC
Mark Odegard
[Posted, e-mailed] On Mon, 18 Nov 1996 21:54:05 GMT,
exw...@ix.netcom.com (Bob Cunningham) in
<3294d634....@nntp.ix.netcom.com> wrote
>Geoff Butler <ge...@gbutler.demon.co.uk> said:
>
>>In article <ImY4EQ600...@andrew.cmu.edu>, G Sumner Hayes
>><sum...@CMU.EDU> writes
>>>[snip]
>>>Curiously enough, I've heard some people who speak a U.S.A. Gulf
>>>dialect use atgrynge in the singular despite the fact that it is
>>>obviously the plural of atgry. Of course, most people just use the
>>>incorrect "atgries". Furrfu.
>>
>>No, you're definitely wrong there. I've always listened to all Gulf
>>dialect speakers all the time, and they always don't use 'atgrynge' in
>>the singular at all ever.
>
> There is one exception to that, according to some speakers I've
>conversed with: When they are addressing one of a pair of identical
>twins and they're not sure which one it is, they use the plural
>"atgrynge". This leads some people to think "atgrynge" is being used in
>the singular, but what's really happening is that they're addressing
>both twins, so that whichever one it is they are conversing with will be
>sure to be included.
>
> "Atgrynge" has special importance to those who concern themselves
>with correct pronunciation. In order to pronounce it at all you have to
>call "y" a vowel. Some days you can't pronounce it at all because, as
>we all know from elementary school, "y" is only sometimes a vowel.
By my understanding, "gry" is the sole surviving dual in
English, and also the only example of English attempting to
create a triad (always presented in twos, searching for the
third). The strange morphology of the plural "atgrynge" is
explained as a "defective" dual (or, "incomplete" triad).
--
Mark Odegard ode...@ptel.net
[e-mailed copies of responses to my postings are welcomed]
The great orthographical contest has long subsisted between
etymology and pronunciation. It has been demanded, on one hand,
that men should write as they speak; but, as it has been shown
that this conformity never was attained in any language, and
that it is not more easy to persuade men to agree exactly in
speaking than in writing, it may be asked, with equal propriety,
why men do not rather speak as they write.
-- Samuel Johnson, "The Plan of an English Dictionary" (1747).
The Chocolate Lady (Davida Chazan)
I say, wasn't that kci...@cpcug.org (Keith C. Ivey) who wrote:
>No, you still haven't quite gotten it; "a TOHR grynge" doesn't
>rhyme with "orange", because of that pesky /g/ in the middle.
>Fortunately, the correct pronunciation of "atgrynge" is
>/@ 'tOr @ndZ/ ("uh TOR unj")--or /@ 'tA.r @ndZ/ in the UK.
>The first "g" is pronounced like an "o", following a spelling
>reform proposed by G. B. Shaw.
Right. And if you believe this, I've got a $250 cookie recipe I could
send you - cheap!
****
De chocolate non est disputandum!
****
Truly Donovan
00nzwi...@bsuvc.bsu.edu wrote:
>
> In article <56qup1$c...@news3.digex.net>, kci...@cpcug.org (Keith C. Ivey) writes:
> >
> >>You are obviously unfamiliar with the proper pronunciation
> >>of the word atgrynge.
> > No, you still haven't quite gotten it; "a TOHR grynge" doesn't
> > rhyme with "orange", because of that pesky /g/ in the middle.
> > Fortunately, the correct pronunciation of "atgrynge" is
> > /@ 'tOr @ndZ/ ("uh TOR unj")--or /@ 'tA.r @ndZ/ in the UK.
> > The first "g" is pronounced like an "o", following a spelling
> > reform proposed by G. B. Shaw.
>
> I don't know this word and cannot find it in my dictionaries.
Uh-oh. Nyal's been napping. (You had to have been there, Nyal -- it
defies reconstruction.)
Stuart Leichter
In article <3294d634....@nntp.ix.netcom.com>, exw...@ix.netcom.com
(Bob Cunningham) wrote:
> Geoff Butler <ge...@gbutler.demon.co.uk> said:
>
> >In article <ImY4EQ600...@andrew.cmu.edu>, G Sumner Hayes
> ><sum...@CMU.EDU> writes
> >>[snip]
"atgries". Furrfu.
> >[snip]
"atgrynge".
[snip]
Some read this stuff with their telephony, so your secrets are probably up
in the Van Allen Belt for the whole universe to see. Finally, have you no
decency?
--
Stuart Leichter
00nzwi...@bsuvc.bsu.edu
In article <329213...@lunemere.com>, Truly Donovan <tr...@lunemere.com> writes:
> 00nzwi...@bsuvc.bsu.edu wrote:
>>
>> In article <56qup1$c...@news3.digex.net>, kci...@cpcug.org (Keith C. Ivey) writes:
>> > G Sumner Hayes <sum...@CMU.EDU> wrote:
>> >
>> >>You are obviously unfamiliar with the proper pronunciation
>> >>of the word atgrynge.
>
>> > No, you still haven't quite gotten it; "a TOHR grynge" doesn't
>> > rhyme with "orange", because of that pesky /g/ in the middle.
>> > Fortunately, the correct pronunciation of "atgrynge" is
>> > /@ 'tOr @ndZ/ ("uh TOR unj")--or /@ 'tA.r @ndZ/ in the UK.
>> > The first "g" is pronounced like an "o", following a spelling
>> > reform proposed by G. B. Shaw.
>>
>> I don't know this word and cannot find it in my dictionaries.
>
> Uh-oh. Nyal's been napping. (You had to have been there, Nyal -- it
> defies reconstruction.)
I thought as much; we went off to Maine for three weeks.
Howsomever, I still want an answer about the rhyming!
--
Nyal Z. Williams
00nzwi...@bsuvc.bsu.edu
Keith C. Ivey
>> No, you still haven't quite gotten it; "a TOHR grynge" doesn't
>> rhyme with "orange", because of that pesky /g/ in the middle.
>I don't know this word and cannot find it in my dictionaries.
That's because it's a joke (but don't tell anybody).
>I have no investment in the above discussion, but it is curious
>to me that you insist the rhyme is not there because of the
>pesky G. How far back from the end of a word must one begin to
>establish a rhyme?
From the last stressed syllable. To rhyme with "orange", a word
must end with "orange" (since "orange" doesn't have a consonant
phoneme at the beginning). There are other definitions of
rhyming (sight rhymes, for example, which would allow "orange"
to rhyme with "strange"), but under those definitions there's no
difficulty in finding a rhyme for "orange", so the puzzle is
pointless.
>I wouldn't even insist that the letter R appear in the word?
>I would have thought that the final vowel and consonant would
>suffice.--
So you would say that "butter" rhymes with "sir"? I'd say you
need something like "cutter" or "nutter".
[posted and mailed]