Google Groups no longer supports new Usenet posts or subscriptions. Historical content remains viewable.
Dismiss
Pronunciation of 'valet'
424 views
Skip to first unread message
Ramapriya D
May 15, 2015, 6:41:56 AM5/15/15
to
I've never heard anyone but Stephen Fry in 'Jeeves and Wooster' pronounce 'valet' with the 't'. Since Fry is awfully erudite and since it doesn't get any more English than J&W, is it that the rest of us are doing it wrongly, pronouncing the word as if it was 'vale' with an accent atop 'e'?
Comments welcome.
Ramapriya
Comments welcome.
Ramapriya
Ross
May 15, 2015, 6:49:00 AM5/15/15
to
English Pronouncing Dictionary (1919), sir. Rhymes with
'mallet', I believe.
charles
May 15, 2015, 6:56:11 AM5/15/15
to
In article <7092efb2-088f-4aaa...@googlegroups.com>,
when taking part in an historical re-creation some yearss ago, I was told
that the Edwardian pronunciation was "val-et". The other version is the
French way, so it sould "posher".
--
From KT24 in Surrey
Using a RISC OS computer running v5.18
that the Edwardian pronunciation was "val-et". The other version is the
French way, so it sould "posher".
--
From KT24 in Surrey
Using a RISC OS computer running v5.18
Guy Barry
May 15, 2015, 7:00:40 AM5/15/15
to
"Ramapriya D" wrote in message
news:7092efb2-088f-4aaa...@googlegroups.com...
experience, but I think in "car valeting" it's usual to pronounce the "t"
(although I've never been sure).
--
Guy Barry
news:7092efb2-088f-4aaa...@googlegroups.com...
>
>I've never heard anyone but Stephen Fry in 'Jeeves and Wooster' pronounce
>'valet' with the 't'. Since Fry is awfully erudite and since it doesn't get
>any more English than J&W, is it that the rest of us are doing it wrongly,
>pronouncing the word as if it was 'vale' with an accent atop 'e'?
The term for a male servant is generally pronounced "VAL-ay" in my
>I've never heard anyone but Stephen Fry in 'Jeeves and Wooster' pronounce
>'valet' with the 't'. Since Fry is awfully erudite and since it doesn't get
>any more English than J&W, is it that the rest of us are doing it wrongly,
>pronouncing the word as if it was 'vale' with an accent atop 'e'?
experience, but I think in "car valeting" it's usual to pronounce the "t"
(although I've never been sure).
--
Guy Barry
Mike Barnes
May 15, 2015, 7:05:56 AM5/15/15
to
"VALL-iting".
--
Mike Barnes
Cheshire, England
![Peter Duncanson [BrE]'s profile photo](http://lh3.googleusercontent.com/a-/ALV-UjU1GGYFBCZgBCNB-pRgkosMu-ej0qpnECw3jc8uGYOTiF8a=s40-c)
Peter Duncanson [BrE]
May 15, 2015, 8:25:16 AM5/15/15
to
On Fri, 15 May 2015 03:48:58 -0700 (PDT), Ross <benl...@ihug.co.nz>
wrote:
That is the first pronunciation given in the OED. The second is "-lay".
The OED entry is marked "This entry has not yet been fully updated
(first published 1916)".
--
Peter Duncanson, UK
(in alt.usage.english)
wrote:
The OED entry is marked "This entry has not yet been fully updated
(first published 1916)".
--
Peter Duncanson, UK
(in alt.usage.english)
Peter T. Daniels
May 15, 2015, 8:57:43 AM5/15/15
to
-ing form of the qualifier. The Jeeves word is val-LAY.
I don't know what a car-cleaning service would be. When you go to the car wash
and pay a whole lot more for every crevice to be hand-cleansed, that's "detailing."
Richard Tobin
May 15, 2015, 10:10:03 AM5/15/15
to
In article <plk5x.456241$6l6.1...@fx17.am4>,
As I understand it, for people with servants the term became an
ordinary English word and was pronounced as if it were one, while to
modern readers it's obviously French and is often pronounced
accordingly.
-- Richard
Guy Barry <guy....@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:
>The term for a male servant is generally pronounced "VAL-ay" in my
>experience
But not by people who have one.
>The term for a male servant is generally pronounced "VAL-ay" in my
>experience
As I understand it, for people with servants the term became an
ordinary English word and was pronounced as if it were one, while to
modern readers it's obviously French and is often pronounced
accordingly.
-- Richard
Tony Cooper
May 15, 2015, 11:31:27 AM5/15/15
to
difference between this post and one of those posts that have been
resurrected from the past that people are complaining about?
This question has been posed, discussed, re-posed, re-discussed, and
recycled many times in this group in the last decade.
Ramapriya is a gmail user. Is that to blame?
--
Tony Cooper - Orlando FL
Katy Jennison
May 15, 2015, 12:02:44 PM5/15/15
to
and we came to the conclusion that British=made TV and movies go for
"vallett" in order to sell to the US market.
--
Katy Jennison
charles
May 15, 2015, 12:15:02 PM5/15/15
to
In article <mj55b2$k39$1...@news.albasani.net>,
I was told that "Vallett" was the correct pronunciation for Edwardian
England in the early 1990s - well before Downton Abbey was invented.-
England in the early 1990s - well before Downton Abbey was invented.-
Message has been deleted
Ramapriya D
May 15, 2015, 1:43:29 PM5/15/15
to
On Friday, May 15, 2015 at 7:31:27 PM UTC+4, Tony Cooper wrote:
> >
> No offense intended in Rampriya's direction, but what is the
> difference between this post and one of those posts that have been
> resurrected from the past that people are complaining about?
>
> This question has been posed, discussed, re-posed, re-discussed, and
> recycled many times in this group in the last decade.
>
> Ramapriya is a gmail user. Is that to blame?
> --
> Tony Cooper - Orlando FL
Sorry about that, Tony. I use the Google Groups web interface. Newsreaders aren't available where I am (UAE).
> >
> No offense intended in Rampriya's direction, but what is the
> difference between this post and one of those posts that have been
> resurrected from the past that people are complaining about?
>
> This question has been posed, discussed, re-posed, re-discussed, and
> recycled many times in this group in the last decade.
>
> Ramapriya is a gmail user. Is that to blame?
> --
> Tony Cooper - Orlando FL
Ramapriya
Message has been deleted
Katy Jennison
May 15, 2015, 3:57:57 PM5/15/15
to
On 15/05/2015 19:16, Lewis wrote:
> In message <54c41e81...@charleshope.demon.co.uk>
> I think valet with the t is still the pronunciation in BrE, no? The
> frenchified version is what is used in the US. But then again, people in
> the US pronounce forte as for-tay.
>
Until very recently, I've only ever heard it without the T in BrE. Not
that I've moved in the sort of circles where I'd have been likely to
hear it very often.
--
Katy Jennison
> In message <54c41e81...@charleshope.demon.co.uk>
> frenchified version is what is used in the US. But then again, people in
> the US pronounce forte as for-tay.
>
Until very recently, I've only ever heard it without the T in BrE. Not
that I've moved in the sort of circles where I'd have been likely to
hear it very often.
--
Katy Jennison
Charles Bishop
May 15, 2015, 4:18:15 PM5/15/15
to
In article <2027091a-e769-44a2...@googlegroups.com>,
No worries, there, I think. I think Tony is only using your post as an
example of something we've been discussing elsewhere in aue. Nothing
wrong with your post, or, presumably GG and gmail here.
--
charles
example of something we've been discussing elsewhere in aue. Nothing
wrong with your post, or, presumably GG and gmail here.
--
charles
Paul Wolff
May 15, 2015, 4:46:35 PM5/15/15
to
On Fri, 15 May 2015, Katy Jennison <ka...@spamtrap.kjennison.com> posted:
Have you not heard people offering to valet your car?
Present-participle-wise, that valetting surely has a pronounced double
't'.
ObMilligan: He had a pronounced limp, pronounced "Limp".
--
Paul
Present-participle-wise, that valetting surely has a pronounced double
't'.
ObMilligan: He had a pronounced limp, pronounced "Limp".
--
Paul
Peter T. Daniels
May 15, 2015, 5:00:55 PM5/15/15
to
On Friday, May 15, 2015 at 4:46:35 PM UTC-4, Paul Wolff wrote:
> On Fri, 15 May 2015, Katy Jennison <ka...@spamtrap.kjennison.com> posted:
> >On 15/05/2015 19:16, Lewis wrote:
> >> In message <54c41e81...@charleshope.demon.co.uk>
> >> charles <cha...@charleshope.demon.co.uk> wrote:
> >>> In article <7092efb2-088f-4aaa...@googlegroups.com>,
> >>> Ramapriya D <d.ram...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>>> I've never heard anyone but Stephen Fry in 'Jeeves and Wooster' pronounce
> >>>> 'valet' with the 't'. Since Fry is awfully erudite and since it doesn't
> >>>> get any more English than J&W, is it that the rest of us are doing it
> >>>> wrongly, pronouncing the word as if it was 'vale' with an accent atop 'e'?
> >>>> Comments welcome.
> >>> when taking part in an historical re-creation some yearss ago, I was told
> >>> that the Edwardian pronunciation was "val-et". The other version is the
> >>> French way, so it sould "posher".
> >> I think valet with the t is still the pronunciation in BrE, no? The
> >> frenchified version is what is used in the US. But then again, people in
> >> the US pronounce forte as for-tay.
> >Until very recently, I've only ever heard it without the T in BrE. Not
> >that I've moved in the sort of circles where I'd have been likely to
> >hear it very often.
> >
> Have you not heard people offering to valet your car?
Not as a verb in AmE.
> On Fri, 15 May 2015, Katy Jennison <ka...@spamtrap.kjennison.com> posted:
> >On 15/05/2015 19:16, Lewis wrote:
> >> In message <54c41e81...@charleshope.demon.co.uk>
> >> charles <cha...@charleshope.demon.co.uk> wrote:
> >>> In article <7092efb2-088f-4aaa...@googlegroups.com>,
> >>> Ramapriya D <d.ram...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>>> I've never heard anyone but Stephen Fry in 'Jeeves and Wooster' pronounce
> >>>> 'valet' with the 't'. Since Fry is awfully erudite and since it doesn't
> >>>> get any more English than J&W, is it that the rest of us are doing it
> >>>> wrongly, pronouncing the word as if it was 'vale' with an accent atop 'e'?
> >>>> Comments welcome.
> >>> when taking part in an historical re-creation some yearss ago, I was told
> >>> that the Edwardian pronunciation was "val-et". The other version is the
> >>> French way, so it sould "posher".
> >> I think valet with the t is still the pronunciation in BrE, no? The
> >> frenchified version is what is used in the US. But then again, people in
> >> the US pronounce forte as for-tay.
> >Until very recently, I've only ever heard it without the T in BrE. Not
> >that I've moved in the sort of circles where I'd have been likely to
> >hear it very often.
> >
> Have you not heard people offering to valet your car?
> Present-participle-wise, that valetting surely has a pronounced double
> 't'.
Tony Cooper
May 15, 2015, 7:22:13 PM5/15/15
to
restaurants, have a sign in front that says "Valet Parking".
It would not be normal to call the varlet who parks your car if you
opt for valet parking the "vall-et". He or she is a "val-lay" person.
Tony Cooper
May 15, 2015, 7:22:59 PM5/15/15
to
Robert Bannister
May 15, 2015, 9:21:02 PM5/15/15
to
On 16/05/2015 2:16 am, Lewis wrote:
> In message <54c41e81...@charleshope.demon.co.uk>
> charles <cha...@charleshope.demon.co.uk> wrote:
> In message <54c41e81...@charleshope.demon.co.uk>
> charles <cha...@charleshope.demon.co.uk> wrote:
> I think valet with the t is still the pronunciation in BrE, no? The
> frenchified version is what is used in the US. But then again, people in
> the US pronounce forte as for-tay.
>
I have only heard "valet" with a T in recent years and even then only
> frenchified version is what is used in the US. But then again, people in
> the US pronounce forte as for-tay.
>
with the verb as in "valeting". The T is early 1900s. The main
difference between American and Other English is "va-LAY" and "VA-lay".
--
Robert Bannister - 1940-71 SE England
1972-now W Australia
Robert Bannister
May 15, 2015, 9:23:52 PM5/15/15
to
sides or touching up scratched paintwork.
Peter Moylan
May 15, 2015, 9:24:14 PM5/15/15
to
Or does "valet your car" simply mean parking it?
--
Peter Moylan http://www.pmoylan.org
Newcastle, NSW, Australia
Peter Moylan
May 15, 2015, 9:24:57 PM5/15/15
to
On 16/05/15 04:16, Lewis wrote:
> I think valet with the t is still the pronunciation in BrE, no? The
> frenchified version is what is used in the US. But then again, people in
> the US pronounce forte as for-tay.
Not all USans. The ones in this group know the difference between forte
> I think valet with the t is still the pronunciation in BrE, no? The
> frenchified version is what is used in the US. But then again, people in
> the US pronounce forte as for-tay.
and forte.
Robert Bannister
May 15, 2015, 9:25:30 PM5/15/15
to
fingers were trying to say.
Robert Bannister
May 15, 2015, 9:26:52 PM5/15/15
to
On 16/05/2015 12:22 am, Stefan Ram wrote:
> similarity of the word with "chalet".
>
> A good dictionary gives /Sæ'leI/ and /'SæleI/ for <chalet>,
> but "/væ'leI/; /'væleI/ (formerly but now rarely:) /'vælIt/"
> for <valet> as AmE pronunciations.
>
> For the British, the same source gives: "/'vælIt/; /'væleI/".
>
> So, according to this source, the T is more British than
> American, and the specifically American pronunciation is
> /væ'leI/ with the stress on the second syllable.
>
Which would appear to demonstrate that dictionaries are almost a century
out of date.
> Katy Jennison <ka...@spamtrap.kjennison.com> writes:
>> I think we did this one some months ago, in relation to Downton Abbey,
>> and we came to the conclusion that British=made TV and movies go for
>> "vallett" in order to sell to the US market.
>
> I'd have omitted the T in my pronunciation because of the
>> I think we did this one some months ago, in relation to Downton Abbey,
>> and we came to the conclusion that British=made TV and movies go for
>> "vallett" in order to sell to the US market.
>
> similarity of the word with "chalet".
>
> A good dictionary gives /Sæ'leI/ and /'SæleI/ for <chalet>,
> but "/væ'leI/; /'væleI/ (formerly but now rarely:) /'vælIt/"
> for <valet> as AmE pronunciations.
>
> For the British, the same source gives: "/'vælIt/; /'væleI/".
>
> So, according to this source, the T is more British than
> American, and the specifically American pronunciation is
> /væ'leI/ with the stress on the second syllable.
>
Which would appear to demonstrate that dictionaries are almost a century
out of date.
Peter Moylan
May 15, 2015, 9:28:04 PM5/15/15
to
wonder whether anyone can be talked into implementing one.
Katy Jennison
May 15, 2015, 9:54:05 PM5/15/15
to
right places.
--
Katy Jennison
snide...@gmail.com
May 15, 2015, 10:44:11 PM5/15/15
to
On Friday, May 15, 2015 at 6:24:57 PM UTC-7, Peter Moylan wrote:
> On 16/05/15 04:16, Lewis wrote:
>
> > I think valet with the t is still the pronunciation in BrE, no? The
> > frenchified version is what is used in the US. But then again, people in
> > the US pronounce forte as for-tay.
>
> Not all USans. The ones in this group know the difference between forte
> and forte.
Even when my mouth is open?
> On 16/05/15 04:16, Lewis wrote:
>
> > I think valet with the t is still the pronunciation in BrE, no? The
> > frenchified version is what is used in the US. But then again, people in
> > the US pronounce forte as for-tay.
>
> Not all USans. The ones in this group know the difference between forte
> and forte.
/dps
snide...@gmail.com
May 15, 2015, 10:47:21 PM5/15/15
to
/dps "Dr Nick has other attributes, though"
R H Draney
May 16, 2015, 12:02:25 AM5/16/15
to
Lewis <g.k...@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> wrote in
news:slrnmlce1j....@amelia.local:
> But then again, people
> in the US pronounce forte as for-tay.
Say it loud, I'm Italian and proud!...r
news:slrnmlce1j....@amelia.local:
> But then again, people
> in the US pronounce forte as for-tay.
Charles Bishop
May 16, 2015, 1:06:49 AM5/16/15
to
In article <dtvcla1lt5l472609...@4ax.com>,
Sure, and I understood. It looked as if Ramapriya misudertood as there
was an apology.
--
charles, additional reassurance ya us
was an apology.
--
charles, additional reassurance ya us
Peter Moylan
May 16, 2015, 1:15:21 AM5/16/15
to
Steve Hayes
May 16, 2015, 2:58:49 AM5/16/15
to
On Fri, 15 May 2015 18:16:16 +0000 (UTC), Lewis
<g.k...@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> wrote:
>In message <54c41e81...@charleshope.demon.co.uk>
> charles <cha...@charleshope.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>> In article <7092efb2-088f-4aaa...@googlegroups.com>,
<g.k...@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> wrote:
>In message <54c41e81...@charleshope.demon.co.uk>
> charles <cha...@charleshope.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>> Ramapriya D <d.ram...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> I've never heard anyone but Stephen Fry in 'Jeeves and Wooster' pronounce
>>> 'valet' with the 't'. Since Fry is awfully erudite and since it doesn't
>>> get any more English than J&W, is it that the rest of us are doing it
>>> wrongly, pronouncing the word as if it was 'vale' with an accent atop 'e'?
>
>>> Comments welcome.
>
>>> I've never heard anyone but Stephen Fry in 'Jeeves and Wooster' pronounce
>>> 'valet' with the 't'. Since Fry is awfully erudite and since it doesn't
>>> get any more English than J&W, is it that the rest of us are doing it
>>> wrongly, pronouncing the word as if it was 'vale' with an accent atop 'e'?
>
>>> Comments welcome.
>
>> when taking part in an historical re-creation some yearss ago, I was told
>> that the Edwardian pronunciation was "val-et". The other version is the
>> French way, so it sould "posher".
>
>> that the Edwardian pronunciation was "val-et". The other version is the
>> French way, so it sould "posher".
>
>I think valet with the t is still the pronunciation in BrE, no? The
>frenchified version is what is used in the US. But then again, people in
>the US pronounce forte as for-tay.
So is that
AmE - pianofortay
BrE - pianfort?
--
Steve Hayes from Tshwane, South Africa
Web: http://www.khanya.org.za/stevesig.htm
Blog: http://khanya.wordpress.com
E-mail - see web page, or parse: shayes at dunelm full stop org full stop uk
Steve Hayes
May 16, 2015, 3:07:29 AM5/16/15
to
as "VA-lay", and to pronounce "nanny" as "NAN-ay".
"What will you do if you have more children?"
"I'll just get more nannays."
Presumably such people have lots of valets as well, but I'm not sure
how they pronounce them.
Steve Hayes
May 16, 2015, 3:10:15 AM5/16/15
to
Paul Wolff
May 16, 2015, 3:17:03 AM5/16/15
to
On Sat, 16 May 2015, Peter Moylan <pe...@pmoylan.org> posted:
Maybe it does, in some places, but not where I live, in central southern
England. Here it means clean thoroughly, inside and out, by human
agency. At least, that's what I think they mean.
--
Paul
England. Here it means clean thoroughly, inside and out, by human
agency. At least, that's what I think they mean.
--
Paul
Mike Barnes
May 16, 2015, 3:59:59 AM5/16/15
to
valet (VALL-ay), but a valeter (VALL-it-uh). Also valet (VALL-ay)
parking is carried out not by a valet (VALL-ay) but by a parking
attendant or doorman.
In BrE of course. https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=valeting+site%3Auk
--
Mike Barnes
Cheshire, England
Guy Barry
May 16, 2015, 4:27:31 AM5/16/15
to
"Paul Wolff" wrote in message news:CLztImHO...@wolff.co.uk...
"valetting", the stress would be on the second syllable.
--
Guy Barry
>>Until very recently, I've only ever heard it without the T in BrE. Not
>>that I've moved in the sort of circles where I'd have been likely to hear
>>it very often.
>>
>Have you not heard people offering to valet your car?
>Present-participle-wise, that valetting surely has a pronounced double 't'.
The "t" is pronounced, but I've only seen it spelt "valeting". If it were
>>that I've moved in the sort of circles where I'd have been likely to hear
>>it very often.
>>
>Have you not heard people offering to valet your car?
>Present-participle-wise, that valetting surely has a pronounced double 't'.
"valetting", the stress would be on the second syllable.
--
Guy Barry
Guy Barry
May 16, 2015, 4:31:53 AM5/16/15
to
"Katy Jennison" wrote in message news:mj67vr$6i8$1...@news.albasani.net...
There's a car valeting centre not far from me:
https://www.facebook.com/BathsHandCarWashAndValeting
Since I don't have a car, I've never been sure exactly what they do.
--
Guy Barry
https://www.facebook.com/BathsHandCarWashAndValeting
Since I don't have a car, I've never been sure exactly what they do.
--
Guy Barry
Guy Barry
May 16, 2015, 4:35:15 AM5/16/15
to
"Peter Moylan" wrote in message news:mj6673$nfi$4...@dont-email.me...
musical term meaning "loud" exactly the same: FOR-tay. There's an older
pronunciation of the noun as "fort" but I rarely hear that now.
--
Guy Barry
>
>On 16/05/15 04:16, Lewis wrote:
>
>> I think valet with the t is still the pronunciation in BrE, no? The
>> frenchified version is what is used in the US. But then again, people in
>> the US pronounce forte as for-tay.
>
>Not all USans. The ones in this group know the difference between forte
>and forte.
What difference? I pronounce the noun meaning "strong point" and the
>On 16/05/15 04:16, Lewis wrote:
>
>> I think valet with the t is still the pronunciation in BrE, no? The
>> frenchified version is what is used in the US. But then again, people in
>> the US pronounce forte as for-tay.
>
>Not all USans. The ones in this group know the difference between forte
>and forte.
musical term meaning "loud" exactly the same: FOR-tay. There's an older
pronunciation of the noun as "fort" but I rarely hear that now.
--
Guy Barry
Guy Barry
May 16, 2015, 4:36:31 AM5/16/15
to
"Peter Moylan" wrote in message news:mj66cv$nfi$5...@dont-email.me...
>What we need is a search engine that can find old newsgroup articles. I
>wonder whether anyone can be talked into implementing one.
I think there's one, but it only works for gmail users.
--
Guy Barry
>What we need is a search engine that can find old newsgroup articles. I
>wonder whether anyone can be talked into implementing one.
--
Guy Barry
Guy Barry
May 16, 2015, 4:38:17 AM5/16/15
to
"Steve Hayes" wrote in message
news:ioqdlal9g8808e6ek...@4ax.com...
>So is that
>
>AmE - pianofortay
>BrE - pianfort?
It's pronounced "piano" where I am. Who says "pianoforte" any more?
--
Guy Barry
news:ioqdlal9g8808e6ek...@4ax.com...
>So is that
>
>AmE - pianofortay
>BrE - pianfort?
--
Guy Barry
Bertel Lund Hansen
May 16, 2015, 6:46:10 AM5/16/15
to
Peter Moylan skrev:
> What we need is a search engine that can find old newsgroup
> articles. I wonder whether anyone can be talked into
> implementing one.
Dialog has a nice search function that allows you to choose
either to search with GoogleGrups or to check the newsserver you
are using. But running two newsreaders (if you don't want to
change) wouldn't be userfriendly.
--
Bertel, Kolt, Denmark
> What we need is a search engine that can find old newsgroup
> articles. I wonder whether anyone can be talked into
> implementing one.
either to search with GoogleGrups or to check the newsserver you
are using. But running two newsreaders (if you don't want to
change) wouldn't be userfriendly.
--
Bertel, Kolt, Denmark
Peter Duncanson [BrE]
May 16, 2015, 6:56:13 AM5/16/15
to
week:
https://goo.gl/maps/qFCOA
I've been told, but can't confirm, that "Europa" in the name comes from
the business being owned and run by people from Eastern Europe.
(It uses a vacant lot where there used to be a building. If/When the
economy perks up the landowner might decide to erect a new building. In
the meantime the rent from the washers-and-valeters will be useful. I've
just noticed that there is a "For Sale" sign.)
--
Peter Duncanson, UK
(in alt.usage.english)
Peter Duncanson [BrE]
May 16, 2015, 7:16:21 AM5/16/15
to
On Sat, 16 May 2015 15:15:18 +1000, Peter Moylan <pe...@pmoylan.org>
wrote:
>On 16/05/15 11:23, Robert Bannister wrote:
>> On 15/05/2015 8:57 pm, Peter T. Daniels wrote:
>
>>> I don't know what a car-cleaning service would be. When you go to
>>> the car wash and pay a whole lot more for every crevice to be
>>> hand-cleansed, that's "detailing."
>>>
>> I think in OtherE "detailing" means painting go-faster lines down
>> the sides or touching up scratched paintwork.
>
>Except when a vet does it.
As in the surgery that converts a rabbit into a rabbi.
wrote:
>On 16/05/15 11:23, Robert Bannister wrote:
>> On 15/05/2015 8:57 pm, Peter T. Daniels wrote:
>
>>> I don't know what a car-cleaning service would be. When you go to
>>> the car wash and pay a whole lot more for every crevice to be
>>> hand-cleansed, that's "detailing."
>>>
>> I think in OtherE "detailing" means painting go-faster lines down
>> the sides or touching up scratched paintwork.
>
>Except when a vet does it.
Ramapriya D
May 16, 2015, 7:44:36 AM5/16/15
to
On Saturday, May 16, 2015 at 9:06:49 AM UTC+4, Charles Bishop wrote:
>
> > Exactly. That's why I opened with a "No offense intended".
>
> Sure, and I understood. It looked as if Ramapriya misudertood as there
> was an apology.
Tony's always polite, as is nearly everyone; regardless, I felt chagrined.
>
> > Exactly. That's why I opened with a "No offense intended".
>
> Sure, and I understood. It looked as if Ramapriya misudertood as there
> was an apology.
Ramapriya
John Holmes
May 16, 2015, 8:49:57 AM5/16/15
to
"Guy Barry" <guy....@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote in message
news:gkD5x.760068$dT.4...@fx35.am4...
--
Regards
John
for mail: my initials plus a u e
at tpg dot com dot au
Guy Barry
May 16, 2015, 9:02:05 AM5/16/15
to
"John Holmes" wrote in message news:55573ceb$1...@news.ausics.net...
about relevant ones.
--
Guy Barry
>
>
>"Guy Barry" <guy....@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote in message
>news:gkD5x.760068$dT.4...@fx35.am4...
>> "Peter Moylan" wrote in message news:mj66cv$nfi$5...@dont-email.me...
>>>What we need is a search engine that can find old newsgroup articles. I
>>>wonder whether anyone can be talked into implementing one.
>>
>> I think there's one, but it only works for gmail users.
>
>That's a meaning of "works" I haven't encountered before.
Oh, it works fine. It's found loads of them. Peter didn't say anything
>
>"Guy Barry" <guy....@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote in message
>news:gkD5x.760068$dT.4...@fx35.am4...
>> "Peter Moylan" wrote in message news:mj66cv$nfi$5...@dont-email.me...
>>>What we need is a search engine that can find old newsgroup articles. I
>>>wonder whether anyone can be talked into implementing one.
>>
>> I think there's one, but it only works for gmail users.
>
>That's a meaning of "works" I haven't encountered before.
about relevant ones.
--
Guy Barry
Peter Moylan
May 16, 2015, 9:14:08 AM5/16/15
to
those words comes from French and the other comes from Italian.
Peter T. Daniels
May 16, 2015, 9:17:36 AM5/16/15
to
On Saturday, May 16, 2015 at 1:15:21 AM UTC-4, Peter Moylan wrote:
> On 16/05/15 11:23, Robert Bannister wrote:
> > On 15/05/2015 8:57 pm, Peter T. Daniels wrote:
> >> I don't know what a car-cleaning service would be. When you go to
> >> the car wash and pay a whole lot more for every crevice to be
> >> hand-cleansed, that's "detailing."
> > I think in OtherE "detailing" means painting go-faster lines down
> > the sides or touching up scratched paintwork.
>
> Except when a vet does it.
? I don't see either veterinarians or veterans doing custom paint jobs.
> On 16/05/15 11:23, Robert Bannister wrote:
> > On 15/05/2015 8:57 pm, Peter T. Daniels wrote:
> >> I don't know what a car-cleaning service would be. When you go to
> >> the car wash and pay a whole lot more for every crevice to be
> >> hand-cleansed, that's "detailing."
> > I think in OtherE "detailing" means painting go-faster lines down
> > the sides or touching up scratched paintwork.
>
> Except when a vet does it.
Peter T. Daniels
May 16, 2015, 9:20:04 AM5/16/15
to
On Saturday, May 16, 2015 at 2:58:49 AM UTC-4, Steve Hayes wrote:
> On Fri, 15 May 2015 18:16:16 +0000 (UTC), Lewis
> <g.k...@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> wrote:
> >I think valet with the t is still the pronunciation in BrE, no? The
> >frenchified version is what is used in the US. But then again, people in
> >the US pronounce forte as for-tay.
>
> So is that
>
> AmE - pianofortay
We'd very rarely use the five-syllable name, but the replicas of Mozart pianos
> On Fri, 15 May 2015 18:16:16 +0000 (UTC), Lewis
> <g.k...@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> wrote:
> >I think valet with the t is still the pronunciation in BrE, no? The
> >frenchified version is what is used in the US. But then again, people in
> >the US pronounce forte as for-tay.
>
> So is that
>
> AmE - pianofortay
that began to be constructed and used in "historically informed performance"
ca. 1970 are five-syllable "fortepianos."
> BrE - pianfort?
Peter T. Daniels
May 16, 2015, 9:22:11 AM5/16/15
to
Guy Barry
May 16, 2015, 9:26:43 AM5/16/15
to
"Peter Moylan" wrote in message news:mj7foq$8st$4...@dont-email.me...
But the original French word was "fort", not "forte":
' 1640s, fort, from French fort "strong point (of a sword blade)," from
Middle French fort "fort, fortress" (see fort). Meaning "strong point of a
person, that in which one excels," is from 1680s. Final -e- added 18c. in
imitation of Italian forte "strong." '
http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?term=forte
Since the "e" was added in imitation of Italian, it seems reasonable to
pronounce it in the Italian fashion.
--
Guy Barry
' 1640s, fort, from French fort "strong point (of a sword blade)," from
Middle French fort "fort, fortress" (see fort). Meaning "strong point of a
person, that in which one excels," is from 1680s. Final -e- added 18c. in
imitation of Italian forte "strong." '
http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?term=forte
Since the "e" was added in imitation of Italian, it seems reasonable to
pronounce it in the Italian fashion.
--
Guy Barry
Guy Barry
May 16, 2015, 9:31:46 AM5/16/15
to
"Peter T. Daniels" wrote in message
news:b9527e96-6529-49c1...@googlegroups.com...
Why not? They've got the rule right as far as I can see: "words of this
class [i.e. more than one syllable] not stressed on the last syllable do not
double the last consonant on adding -ed, -ing, -er, -est or -y unless the
consonant is l or g".
--
Guy Barry
news:b9527e96-6529-49c1...@googlegroups.com...
class [i.e. more than one syllable] not stressed on the last syllable do not
double the last consonant on adding -ed, -ing, -er, -est or -y unless the
consonant is l or g".
--
Guy Barry
Paul Wolff
May 16, 2015, 10:37:24 AM5/16/15
to
On Sat, 16 May 2015, Guy Barry <guy....@blueyonder.co.uk> posted:
The Polish entrepreneurs in this village have a valeting operation on
the forecourt of our ex-petrol station, which still has pumps but they
have dispensed with the petrol, if you can follow me, and expanded into
cakes instead.
I took a look at their valeting signs this morning, so I could report
back. I could have a mini valet, a silver valet, an exterior valet, a
full valet, or a steam clean in the engine department. But I didn't try
to memorise the details, beyond that the mini valet didn't look like a
Mini valet.
--
Paul
the forecourt of our ex-petrol station, which still has pumps but they
have dispensed with the petrol, if you can follow me, and expanded into
cakes instead.
I took a look at their valeting signs this morning, so I could report
back. I could have a mini valet, a silver valet, an exterior valet, a
full valet, or a steam clean in the engine department. But I didn't try
to memorise the details, beyond that the mini valet didn't look like a
Mini valet.
--
Paul
Peter T. Daniels
May 16, 2015, 2:18:47 PM5/16/15
to
Guy Barry
May 16, 2015, 3:58:10 PM5/16/15
to
"Peter T. Daniels" wrote in message
news:6af795de-4f8a-42ae...@googlegroups.com...
could copy the whole thing out, but it would be rather tedious.
Can you really not buy a copy over there? I was alerted to the existence of
the new edition by a post from Jerry Friedman, so he must have got hold of
it somehow.
(But this particular article isn't significantly different from Burchfield's
version anyway, apart from the introduction of additional errors.)
--
Guy Barry
Richard Tobin
May 16, 2015, 4:30:03 PM5/16/15
to
In article <jjN5x.518191$pj.1...@fx16.am4>,
it allowed me to buy it (almost; I cancelled right at the end) without
any suggestion that it would not ship immediately, so perhaps they are
already selling it.
-- Richard
Guy Barry <guy....@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:
>Can you really not buy a copy over there? I was alerted to the existence of
>the new edition by a post from Jerry Friedman, so he must have got hold of
>it somehow.
According to Amazon, it is to be published in the US on June 1st. But
>Can you really not buy a copy over there? I was alerted to the existence of
>the new edition by a post from Jerry Friedman, so he must have got hold of
>it somehow.
it allowed me to buy it (almost; I cancelled right at the end) without
any suggestion that it would not ship immediately, so perhaps they are
already selling it.
-- Richard
Robert Bannister
May 16, 2015, 8:23:47 PM5/16/15
to
On 16/05/2015 9:24 am, Peter Moylan wrote:
> Does a valet clean cars? I thought that was the chauffeur's job.
>
> Does a valet clean cars? I thought that was the chauffeur's job.
>
> Or does "valet your car" simply mean parking it?
>
Two different jobs. The person who valets your car is not (to the best
>
of my knowledge) called a valet.
--
Robert Bannister - 1940-71 SE England
1972-now W Australia
Robert Bannister
May 16, 2015, 8:30:55 PM5/16/15
to
On 16/05/2015 1:15 pm, Peter Moylan wrote:
> On 16/05/15 11:23, Robert Bannister wrote:
>> On 15/05/2015 8:57 pm, Peter T. Daniels wrote:
>
>>> I don't know what a car-cleaning service would be. When you go to
>>> the car wash and pay a whole lot more for every crevice to be
>>> hand-cleansed, that's "detailing."
>>>
>> I think in OtherE "detailing" means painting go-faster lines down
>> the sides or touching up scratched paintwork.
>
> Except when a vet does it.
>
I thought that was docking except when the helmsman does it.
> On 16/05/15 11:23, Robert Bannister wrote:
>> On 15/05/2015 8:57 pm, Peter T. Daniels wrote:
>
>>> I don't know what a car-cleaning service would be. When you go to
>>> the car wash and pay a whole lot more for every crevice to be
>>> hand-cleansed, that's "detailing."
>>>
>> I think in OtherE "detailing" means painting go-faster lines down
>> the sides or touching up scratched paintwork.
>
> Except when a vet does it.
>
Jerry Friedman
May 16, 2015, 11:29:33 PM5/16/15
to
On 5/16/15 1:58 PM, Guy Barry wrote:
[new "Fowler"]
> Can you really not buy a copy over there? I was alerted to the
> existence of the new edition by a post from Jerry Friedman, so he must
> have got hold of it somehow.
...
I heard about it somewhere on the Net. I haven't seen it or tried to
get it.
--
Jerry Friedman
[new "Fowler"]
> Can you really not buy a copy over there? I was alerted to the
> existence of the new edition by a post from Jerry Friedman, so he must
> have got hold of it somehow.
I heard about it somewhere on the Net. I haven't seen it or tried to
get it.
--
Jerry Friedman
Peter T. Daniels
May 17, 2015, 2:30:32 AM5/17/15
to
amazon's "Look Inside!" rarely qualifies for a glance-through.
For instance, amazon doesn't tell me that the Fourth is a revision of the
Third, rather than a rejection of the Third.
Jack Campin
May 17, 2015, 6:11:00 AM5/17/15
to
Lewis <g.k...@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> wrote:
> charles <cha...@charleshope.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>> Ramapriya D <d.ram...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> I've never heard anyone but Stephen Fry in 'Jeeves and Wooster'
>>> pronounce 'valet' with the 't'.
>> when taking part in an historical re-creation some yearss ago,
>> I was told that the Edwardian pronunciation was "val-et".
pronounced.
The difference is in meaning - nobody in the UK would use the word
to describe a car park attendant.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
e m a i l : j a c k @ c a m p i n . m e . u k
Jack Campin, 11 Third Street, Newtongrange, Midlothian EH22 4PU, Scotland
mobile 07800 739 557 <http://www.campin.me.uk> Twitter: JackCampin
> charles <cha...@charleshope.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>> Ramapriya D <d.ram...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> I've never heard anyone but Stephen Fry in 'Jeeves and Wooster'
>>> pronounce 'valet' with the 't'.
>> when taking part in an historical re-creation some yearss ago,
>> I was told that the Edwardian pronunciation was "val-et".
> I think valet with the t is still the pronunciation in BrE,
> no? The frenchified version is what is used in the US.
I don't think there is any difference - I've never heard the "t"
> no? The frenchified version is what is used in the US.
pronounced.
The difference is in meaning - nobody in the UK would use the word
to describe a car park attendant.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
e m a i l : j a c k @ c a m p i n . m e . u k
Jack Campin, 11 Third Street, Newtongrange, Midlothian EH22 4PU, Scotland
mobile 07800 739 557 <http://www.campin.me.uk> Twitter: JackCampin
Guy Barry
May 17, 2015, 6:18:20 AM5/17/15
to
"Jack Campin" wrote in message
news:bogus-7B83CD....@four.schnuerpel.eu...
pronounced, to mean "to clean the inside of [a car]". (At least we do in
the south of England - I'm not sure whether the usage has reached Scotland
yet. It seems to be quite recent.)
--
Guy Barry
news:bogus-7B83CD....@four.schnuerpel.eu...
>
>Lewis <g.k...@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> wrote:
>> charles <cha...@charleshope.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>>> Ramapriya D <d.ram...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> I've never heard anyone but Stephen Fry in 'Jeeves and Wooster'
>>>> pronounce 'valet' with the 't'.
>>> when taking part in an historical re-creation some yearss ago,
>>> I was told that the Edwardian pronunciation was "val-et".
>> I think valet with the t is still the pronunciation in BrE,
>> no? The frenchified version is what is used in the US.
>
>I don't think there is any difference - I've never heard the "t"
>pronounced.
>
>The difference is in meaning - nobody in the UK would use the word
>to describe a car park attendant.
No, but as mentioned elsewhere we use "valet" as a verb, with the "t"
>Lewis <g.k...@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> wrote:
>> charles <cha...@charleshope.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>>> Ramapriya D <d.ram...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> I've never heard anyone but Stephen Fry in 'Jeeves and Wooster'
>>>> pronounce 'valet' with the 't'.
>>> when taking part in an historical re-creation some yearss ago,
>>> I was told that the Edwardian pronunciation was "val-et".
>> I think valet with the t is still the pronunciation in BrE,
>> no? The frenchified version is what is used in the US.
>
>I don't think there is any difference - I've never heard the "t"
>pronounced.
>
>The difference is in meaning - nobody in the UK would use the word
>to describe a car park attendant.
pronounced, to mean "to clean the inside of [a car]". (At least we do in
the south of England - I'm not sure whether the usage has reached Scotland
yet. It seems to be quite recent.)
--
Guy Barry
LFS
May 17, 2015, 6:23:08 AM5/17/15
to
On 17/05/2015 11:10, Jack Campin wrote:
> Lewis <g.k...@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> wrote:
>> charles <cha...@charleshope.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>>> Ramapriya D <d.ram...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> I've never heard anyone but Stephen Fry in 'Jeeves and Wooster'
>>>> pronounce 'valet' with the 't'.
>>> when taking part in an historical re-creation some yearss ago,
>>> I was told that the Edwardian pronunciation was "val-et".
>> I think valet with the t is still the pronunciation in BrE,
>> no? The frenchified version is what is used in the US.
>
> I don't think there is any difference - I've never heard the "t"
> pronounced.
>
> The difference is in meaning - nobody in the UK would use the word
> to describe a car park attendant.
>
Not strictly true. I have heard the expression used at a hotel in
> Lewis <g.k...@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> wrote:
>> charles <cha...@charleshope.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>>> Ramapriya D <d.ram...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> I've never heard anyone but Stephen Fry in 'Jeeves and Wooster'
>>>> pronounce 'valet' with the 't'.
>>> when taking part in an historical re-creation some yearss ago,
>>> I was told that the Edwardian pronunciation was "val-et".
>> I think valet with the t is still the pronunciation in BrE,
>> no? The frenchified version is what is used in the US.
>
> I don't think there is any difference - I've never heard the "t"
> pronounced.
>
> The difference is in meaning - nobody in the UK would use the word
> to describe a car park attendant.
>
Cambridge where there is no parking available and your car is taken away
somewhere by a valet.
--
Laura (emulate St George for email)
Peter T. Daniels
May 17, 2015, 10:27:50 AM5/17/15
to
On Sunday, May 17, 2015 at 6:11:00 AM UTC-4, Jack Campin wrote:
> Lewis <g.k...@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> wrote:
> > charles <cha...@charleshope.demon.co.uk> wrote:
> >> Ramapriya D <d.ram...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>> I've never heard anyone but Stephen Fry in 'Jeeves and Wooster'
> >>> pronounce 'valet' with the 't'.
> >> when taking part in an historical re-creation some yearss ago,
> >> I was told that the Edwardian pronunciation was "val-et".
> > I think valet with the t is still the pronunciation in BrE,
> > no? The frenchified version is what is used in the US.
>
> I don't think there is any difference - I've never heard the "t"
> pronounced.
>
> The difference is in meaning - nobody in the UK would use the word
> to describe a car park attendant.
Neither would anyone in the US. The high school boy who performs valet* parking
> Lewis <g.k...@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> wrote:
> > charles <cha...@charleshope.demon.co.uk> wrote:
> >> Ramapriya D <d.ram...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>> I've never heard anyone but Stephen Fry in 'Jeeves and Wooster'
> >>> pronounce 'valet' with the 't'.
> >> when taking part in an historical re-creation some yearss ago,
> >> I was told that the Edwardian pronunciation was "val-et".
> > I think valet with the t is still the pronunciation in BrE,
> > no? The frenchified version is what is used in the US.
>
> I don't think there is any difference - I've never heard the "t"
> pronounced.
>
> The difference is in meaning - nobody in the UK would use the word
> to describe a car park attendant.
is a "parking attendant."
* val-LAY
Janet
May 17, 2015, 10:38:54 AM5/17/15
to
In article <mj665p$nfi$3...@dont-email.me>, pe...@pmoylan.org says...
> >>> In message <54c41e81...@charleshope.demon.co.uk>
> >>> charles <cha...@charleshope.demon.co.uk> wrote:
> >>>> In article <7092efb2-088f-4aaa...@googlegroups.com>,
> >>>>> doesn't
> >>>>> get any more English than J&W, is it that the rest of us are doing it
> >>>>> wrongly, pronouncing the word as if it was 'vale' with an accent
> >>>>> atop 'e'?
> >>>
> >>>>> Comments welcome.
> >>>> the
> >>>> French way, so it sould "posher".
http://www.carvaletuk.co.uk/uk-car-valet-prices.php
Janet
>
> On 16/05/15 06:42, Paul Wolff wrote:
> > On Fri, 15 May 2015, Katy Jennison <ka...@spamtrap.kjennison.com> posted:
> >> On 15/05/2015 19:16, Lewis wrote:
> On 16/05/15 06:42, Paul Wolff wrote:
> > On Fri, 15 May 2015, Katy Jennison <ka...@spamtrap.kjennison.com> posted:
> >>> In message <54c41e81...@charleshope.demon.co.uk>
> >>> charles <cha...@charleshope.demon.co.uk> wrote:
> >>>> In article <7092efb2-088f-4aaa...@googlegroups.com>,
> >>>> Ramapriya D <d.ram...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>>>> I've never heard anyone but Stephen Fry in 'Jeeves and Wooster'
> >>>>> pronounce
> >>>>> 'valet' with the 't'. Since Fry is awfully erudite and since it
> >>>>> I've never heard anyone but Stephen Fry in 'Jeeves and Wooster'
> >>>>> pronounce
> >>>>> doesn't
> >>>>> get any more English than J&W, is it that the rest of us are doing it
> >>>>> wrongly, pronouncing the word as if it was 'vale' with an accent
> >>>>> atop 'e'?
> >>>
> >>>>> Comments welcome.
> >>>
> >>>> when taking part in an historical re-creation some yearss ago, I was
> >>>> told
> >>>> that the Edwardian pronunciation was "val-et". The other version is
> >>>> when taking part in an historical re-creation some yearss ago, I was
> >>>> told
> >>>> the
> >>>> French way, so it sould "posher".
> >>>
> >>> I think valet with the t is still the pronunciation in BrE, no? The
> >>> I think valet with the t is still the pronunciation in BrE, no? The
> >>> frenchified version is what is used in the US. But then again, people in
> >>> the US pronounce forte as for-tay.
> >>
> >>> the US pronounce forte as for-tay.
> >>
> >> Until very recently, I've only ever heard it without the T in BrE.
> >> Not that I've moved in the sort of circles where I'd have been likely
> >> to hear it very often.
> >>
> > Have you not heard people offering to valet your car?
> > Present-participle-wise, that valetting surely has a pronounced double 't'.
> >
> > ObMilligan: He had a pronounced limp, pronounced "Limp".
> >> Not that I've moved in the sort of circles where I'd have been likely
> >> to hear it very often.
> >>
> > Have you not heard people offering to valet your car?
> > Present-participle-wise, that valetting surely has a pronounced double 't'.
> >
>
> Does a valet clean cars? I thought that was the chauffeur's job.
>
> Or does "valet your car" simply mean parking it?
No.
> Does a valet clean cars? I thought that was the chauffeur's job.
>
> Or does "valet your car" simply mean parking it?
http://www.carvaletuk.co.uk/uk-car-valet-prices.php
Janet
Janet
May 17, 2015, 10:44:55 AM5/17/15
to
In article <mj67vr$6i8$1...@news.albasani.net>, ka...@spamtrap.kjennison.com
says...
to valet the car. In the same way dog kennels offer to bathe and groom
the dog before you collect it.
Many people would have their quality car valeted (:-)) before trying to
sell it.
Janet
says...
> No-one's offered to do that recently. Clearly I don't frequent the
> right places.
Most UK garages offering an annual service or MOT testing, also offer
> right places.
to valet the car. In the same way dog kennels offer to bathe and groom
the dog before you collect it.
Many people would have their quality car valeted (:-)) before trying to
sell it.
Janet
Tony Cooper
May 17, 2015, 11:23:21 AM5/17/15
to
"A valet is usually an employee of the establishment, or an employee
of a third party valet service. When there is a fee, it is usually
either a flat amount or a fee based on how long the car is parked. It
is customary in the United States to tip the valet who actually parks
the car."
Most of the parking valets in this area are older than high school
age. It's an attractive job for some because the income is derived
from tips, and W-2s are seldom filed.
Hospital parking valets work day hours, but restaurant valets work
late into the night. Not a job for a high schooler, but youth is a
plus. Most of them run to get the car and run back from parking the
car.
--
Tony Cooper - Orlando FL
Tony Cooper
May 17, 2015, 11:26:18 AM5/17/15
to
washed, vacuumed, and sometimes waxed. This local car wash offers
detailing at various prices and level of work:
http://www.billscarwash.com/bills-professional-detailing.php
Jack Campin
May 17, 2015, 1:12:11 PM5/17/15
to
>>>>> I've never heard anyone but Stephen Fry in 'Jeeves and Wooster'
>>>>> pronounce 'valet' with the 't'.
>>>>> pronounce 'valet' with the 't'.
>>>> I was told that the Edwardian pronunciation was "val-et".
>>> I think valet with the t is still the pronunciation in BrE,
>>> no? The frenchified version is what is used in the US.
>> I don't think there is any difference - I've never heard the "t"
>> pronounced.
>> The difference is in meaning - nobody in the UK would use the word
>> to describe a car park attendant.
> No, but as mentioned elsewhere we use "valet" as a verb, with the "t"
> pronounced, to mean "to clean the inside of [a car]". (At least we do in
> the south of England - I'm not sure whether the usage has reached Scotland
> yet. It seems to be quite recent.)
I haven't heard it, but then I don't have much to do with cars.
>>> I think valet with the t is still the pronunciation in BrE,
>>> no? The frenchified version is what is used in the US.
>> I don't think there is any difference - I've never heard the "t"
>> pronounced.
>> The difference is in meaning - nobody in the UK would use the word
>> to describe a car park attendant.
> No, but as mentioned elsewhere we use "valet" as a verb, with the "t"
> pronounced, to mean "to clean the inside of [a car]". (At least we do in
> the south of England - I'm not sure whether the usage has reached Scotland
> yet. It seems to be quite recent.)
Maybe Jeremy Clarkson imported it?
: I have heard the expression used at a hotel in Cambridge where
: there is no parking available and your car is taken away somewhere
: by a valet.
Hotel staff quite often speak to guests in Americanisms by default.
: by a valet.
Peter T. Daniels
May 17, 2015, 1:31:53 PM5/17/15
to
On Sunday, May 17, 2015 at 11:23:21 AM UTC-4, Tony Cooper wrote:
> On Sun, 17 May 2015 07:27:49 -0700 (PDT), "Peter T. Daniels"
> <gram...@verizon.net> wrote:
> >On Sunday, May 17, 2015 at 6:11:00 AM UTC-4, Jack Campin wrote:
> >> The difference is in meaning - nobody in the UK would use the word
> >> to describe a car park attendant.
> >Neither would anyone in the US. The high school boy who performs valet* parking
> >is a "parking attendant."
> >
> Quick, now, go correct Wiki where it says:
>
> "A valet is usually an employee of the establishment, or an employee
> of a third party valet service. When there is a fee, it is usually
> either a flat amount or a fee based on how long the car is parked. It
> is customary in the United States to tip the valet who actually parks
> the car."
Where's the footnote providing the source of that claim?
> On Sun, 17 May 2015 07:27:49 -0700 (PDT), "Peter T. Daniels"
> <gram...@verizon.net> wrote:
> >On Sunday, May 17, 2015 at 6:11:00 AM UTC-4, Jack Campin wrote:
> >> The difference is in meaning - nobody in the UK would use the word
> >> to describe a car park attendant.
> >Neither would anyone in the US. The high school boy who performs valet* parking
> >is a "parking attendant."
> >
> Quick, now, go correct Wiki where it says:
>
> "A valet is usually an employee of the establishment, or an employee
> of a third party valet service. When there is a fee, it is usually
> either a flat amount or a fee based on how long the car is parked. It
> is customary in the United States to tip the valet who actually parks
> the car."
> Most of the parking valets in this area are older than high school
> age. It's an attractive job for some because the income is derived
> from tips, and W-2s are seldom filed.
> Hospital parking valets work day hours, but restaurant valets work
> late into the night. Not a job for a high schooler, but youth is a
> plus. Most of them run to get the car and run back from parking the
> car.
charles
May 17, 2015, 1:55:46 PM5/17/15
to
In article <bogus-E5AC34....@four.schnuerpel.eu>, Jack Campin
longer say "Good Morning" to guests in the dining room, they had to say "Hi
there, how y're doing?". Luckily a new manager put a stop to this.
--
From KT24 in Surrey
Using a RISC OS computer running v5.18
<bo...@purr.demon.co.uk> wrote:
> >>>>> I've never heard anyone but Stephen Fry in 'Jeeves and Wooster'
> >>>>> pronounce 'valet' with the 't'.
> >>>> I was told that the Edwardian pronunciation was "val-et".
> >>> I think valet with the t is still the pronunciation in BrE, no? The
> >>> frenchified version is what is used in the US.
> >> I don't think there is any difference - I've never heard the "t"
> >> pronounced. The difference is in meaning - nobody in the UK would use
> >> the word to describe a car park attendant.
> > No, but as mentioned elsewhere we use "valet" as a verb, with the "t"
> > pronounced, to mean "to clean the inside of [a car]". (At least we do
> > in the south of England - I'm not sure whether the usage has reached
> > Scotland yet. It seems to be quite recent.)
> I haven't heard it, but then I don't have much to do with cars. Maybe
> Jeremy Clarkson imported it?
> : I have heard the expression used at a hotel in Cambridge where there is
> : no parking available and your car is taken away somewhere by a valet.
> Hotel staff quite often speak to guests in Americanisms by default.
Indeed so. At a local hotel, the staff were instructed that they should no
> >>>>> I've never heard anyone but Stephen Fry in 'Jeeves and Wooster'
> >>>>> pronounce 'valet' with the 't'.
> >>>> I was told that the Edwardian pronunciation was "val-et".
> >>> I think valet with the t is still the pronunciation in BrE, no? The
> >>> frenchified version is what is used in the US.
> >> I don't think there is any difference - I've never heard the "t"
> >> pronounced. The difference is in meaning - nobody in the UK would use
> >> the word to describe a car park attendant.
> > No, but as mentioned elsewhere we use "valet" as a verb, with the "t"
> > pronounced, to mean "to clean the inside of [a car]". (At least we do
> > in the south of England - I'm not sure whether the usage has reached
> > Scotland yet. It seems to be quite recent.)
> I haven't heard it, but then I don't have much to do with cars. Maybe
> Jeremy Clarkson imported it?
> : I have heard the expression used at a hotel in Cambridge where there is
> : no parking available and your car is taken away somewhere by a valet.
> Hotel staff quite often speak to guests in Americanisms by default.
longer say "Good Morning" to guests in the dining room, they had to say "Hi
there, how y're doing?". Luckily a new manager put a stop to this.
--
From KT24 in Surrey
Using a RISC OS computer running v5.18
Paul Wolff
May 17, 2015, 2:58:18 PM5/17/15
to
On Sun, 17 May 2015, Peter T. Daniels <gram...@verizon.net> posted:
parking valet -- it makes no difference.
I didn't find that difficult. I was surprised a native speaker found the
question needed asking.
--
Paul
>On Sunday, May 17, 2015 at 11:23:21 AM UTC-4, Tony Cooper wrote:
>
>> Most of the parking valets in this area are older than high school
>> age. It's an attractive job for some because the income is derived
>> from tips, and W-2s are seldom filed.
>
>For some what?
Some parking valets, or some [people] who are attracted to the job of
>
>> Most of the parking valets in this area are older than high school
>> age. It's an attractive job for some because the income is derived
>> from tips, and W-2s are seldom filed.
>
>For some what?
parking valet -- it makes no difference.
I didn't find that difficult. I was surprised a native speaker found the
question needed asking.
--
Paul
LFS
May 17, 2015, 3:11:30 PM5/17/15
to
On 17/05/2015 18:12, Jack Campin wrote:
>>>>>> I've never heard anyone but Stephen Fry in 'Jeeves and Wooster'
>>>>>> pronounce 'valet' with the 't'.
>>>>> I was told that the Edwardian pronunciation was "val-et".
>>>> I think valet with the t is still the pronunciation in BrE,
>>>> no? The frenchified version is what is used in the US.
>>> I don't think there is any difference - I've never heard the "t"
>>> pronounced.
>>> The difference is in meaning - nobody in the UK would use the word
>>> to describe a car park attendant.
>> No, but as mentioned elsewhere we use "valet" as a verb, with the "t"
>> pronounced, to mean "to clean the inside of [a car]". (At least we do in
>> the south of England - I'm not sure whether the usage has reached Scotland
>> yet. It seems to be quite recent.)
>
> I haven't heard it, but then I don't have much to do with cars.
> Maybe Jeremy Clarkson imported it?
>
> : I have heard the expression used at a hotel in Cambridge where
> : there is no parking available and your car is taken away somewhere
> : by a valet.
>
> Hotel staff quite often speak to guests in Americanisms by default.
>
Not at this one, they were aggressively French.
>>>>>> I've never heard anyone but Stephen Fry in 'Jeeves and Wooster'
>>>>>> pronounce 'valet' with the 't'.
>>>>> I was told that the Edwardian pronunciation was "val-et".
>>>> I think valet with the t is still the pronunciation in BrE,
>>>> no? The frenchified version is what is used in the US.
>>> I don't think there is any difference - I've never heard the "t"
>>> pronounced.
>>> The difference is in meaning - nobody in the UK would use the word
>>> to describe a car park attendant.
>> No, but as mentioned elsewhere we use "valet" as a verb, with the "t"
>> pronounced, to mean "to clean the inside of [a car]". (At least we do in
>> the south of England - I'm not sure whether the usage has reached Scotland
>> yet. It seems to be quite recent.)
>
> I haven't heard it, but then I don't have much to do with cars.
> Maybe Jeremy Clarkson imported it?
>
> : I have heard the expression used at a hotel in Cambridge where
> : there is no parking available and your car is taken away somewhere
> : by a valet.
>
> Hotel staff quite often speak to guests in Americanisms by default.
>
Peter T. Daniels
May 17, 2015, 3:37:12 PM5/17/15
to
some parking valets because the income is [easily hidden].
He seems to have intended some population cohort other than high school boys,
since that was what he was objecting to. Retirees like himself? Minimum wage
fast food workers with a girlfriend and two children? I don't know who parks
cars at Disney World.
(But you removed the context.)
Peter T. Daniels
May 17, 2015, 3:39:51 PM5/17/15
to
vowel color, it's in the wrong place. The phrase "How ya doin'?" is short
for "How're ya doin'?" as is clear from Ed Koch (late former mayor of NYC)'s
catch phrase "How'm I doin'?"
Dr. HotSalt
May 17, 2015, 3:57:10 PM5/17/15
to
On Friday, May 15, 2015 at 10:43:29 AM UTC-7, Ramapriya D wrote:
> On Friday, May 15, 2015 at 7:31:27 PM UTC+4, Tony Cooper wrote:
> > >
> > No offense intended in Rampriya's direction, but what is the
> > difference between this post and one of those posts that have been
> > resurrected from the past that people are complaining about?
> >
> > This question has been posed, discussed, re-posed, re-discussed, and
> > recycled many times in this group in the last decade.
> >
> > Ramapriya is a gmail user. Is that to blame?
> aren't available where I am (UAE).
I don't understand why they aren't available. Can you not download e. g. Mozilla Thunderbird? It can be configured to work with Gmail addresses:
https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/kb/thunderbird-and-gmail
Is it due to political firewalling?
Dr. HotSalt
> On Friday, May 15, 2015 at 7:31:27 PM UTC+4, Tony Cooper wrote:
> > >
> > No offense intended in Rampriya's direction, but what is the
> > difference between this post and one of those posts that have been
> > resurrected from the past that people are complaining about?
> >
> > This question has been posed, discussed, re-posed, re-discussed, and
> > recycled many times in this group in the last decade.
> >
> > Ramapriya is a gmail user. Is that to blame?
> > --
> > Tony Cooper - Orlando FL
>
>
> Sorry about that, Tony. I use the Google Groups web interface. Newsreaders
> > Tony Cooper - Orlando FL
>
>
> aren't available where I am (UAE).
I don't understand why they aren't available. Can you not download e. g. Mozilla Thunderbird? It can be configured to work with Gmail addresses:
https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/kb/thunderbird-and-gmail
Is it due to political firewalling?
Dr. HotSalt
Paul Wolff
May 17, 2015, 3:58:22 PM5/17/15
to
--
Paul
charles
May 17, 2015, 4:20:09 PM5/17/15
to
In article <546dc801-b6ce-4c09...@googlegroups.com>, Peter
Thanks for getting the spelling sorted. I can't always spell American
Tony Cooper
May 17, 2015, 5:14:23 PM5/17/15
to
from tips and does not intend to declare that income to the IRS. It
can also be an attractive job because the valet parker is usually an
independent contractor, and that means no one can set that person's
hours or work schedule.
Most places that offer valet parking do not employ the valet parkers.
They either give or sell that function as a concession to someone
else, or treat the valet parkers as independent contractors. This
means the business does not have to get involved with payroll taxes,
workman's comp, withholding, and the other burdens that an employer
has when hiring employees. They also avoid insurance and liability
issues because the business is not responsible (absent gross
negligence*) for damage to the automobiles.
There are companies in the US that offer their services to businesses
(restaurants, in particular) and pay a flat fee or an estimated
percentage of the income to the business for the concession. These
companies then employ the parking valets as independent contractors or
simply run the valet parking business without any record keeping. The
concessionaire, if he's legit, will carry insurance.
A valet parking job is a different job than a parking attendant in a
parking lot or a parking garage. Parking attendants are usually
employees and paid an hourly wage, but they may supplement their
hourly wage with tips.
I happen to be acquainted with a person who was the concessionaire for
a busy restaurant in the Orlando area. He was the son of the owner of
the restaurant, but when he was attending Rollins College (here in
town) he had the valet parking concession.
When he graduated from Rollins, his father wanted him to become the
manager of the restaurant. He declined the job because his income was
higher doing the valet parking thing than it would have been as the
restaurant manager. He later sold that valet parking concession to
one of his valet parkers for what he said was a "five figure amount".
And, that was several years ago.
To anything I've said above...there may be exceptions. There always
are.
For those not familiar with "independent contractor":
http://www.irs.gov/Businesses/Small-Businesses-&-Self-Employed/Independent-Contractor-Defined
http://www.irs.gov/Businesses/Small-Businesses-&-Self-Employed/Independent-Contractor-Self-Employed-or-Employee
*The business may be responsible for theft from a vehicle because the
business has not provided a lighted parking area and the valet parkers
had insufficient ability to park cars in a secure location. This
would fall under gross negligence on the part of the business.
Charles Bishop
May 17, 2015, 6:20:02 PM5/17/15
to
In article <QkTZDyUC...@wolff.co.uk>,
It seems normal wording to me as well, and with the same assumed
references that you gave.
--
charles
references that you gave.
--
charles
CDB
May 17, 2015, 8:59:09 PM5/17/15
to
On 17/05/2015 1:31 PM, Peter T. Daniels wrote:
> Tony Cooper wrote:
[...]
>> Most of the parking valets in this area are older than high school
>> age. It's an attractive job for some because the income is derived
>> from tips, and W-2s are seldom filed.
> For some what?
People. A subset of "everyone". Some like it hot.
[...]
> Tony Cooper wrote:
[...]
>> Most of the parking valets in this area are older than high school
>> age. It's an attractive job for some because the income is derived
>> from tips, and W-2s are seldom filed.
> For some what?
[...]
Peter Moylan
May 17, 2015, 10:09:09 PM5/17/15
to
On 18/05/15 00:44, Janet wrote:
> Many people would have their quality car valeted (:-)) before trying to
> sell it.
That prompted me to try to find out whether anyone ever uses "valete"
> Many people would have their quality car valeted (:-)) before trying to
> sell it.
(in English) as a verb. To my great surprise, OneLook found only one
respectable dictionary that even listed the word, and that one (Collins)
marked it "obsolete".
Obsolete? I must be older than I thought. In my student days it marked a
celebratory dinner for those who were leaving at the end of the year.
Our pronunciation was [vAleIteI], by the way.
--
Peter Moylan http://www.pmoylan.org
Newcastle, NSW, Australia
Charles Bishop
May 18, 2015, 12:04:24 AM5/18/15
to
In article <mjchlat258f7qmk4e...@4ax.com>,
When I first came across it, it meant a superior form of cleaning a car.
They would clean in the cracks and crevices of the interior, removing
debris and washing surfaces. It was the same for the outside, but they
didn't clean surfaces that couldn't be "seen". I think comparable costs
would be $10 for a car wash with an interior vacuuming, and wiping
surfaces, vs $50 for a detailing.
Hard to remember the decade, no matter the year, but I think mid to late
70s.
It doesn't surprise me that there are levels of detailing now.
--
chrles
They would clean in the cracks and crevices of the interior, removing
debris and washing surfaces. It was the same for the outside, but they
didn't clean surfaces that couldn't be "seen". I think comparable costs
would be $10 for a car wash with an interior vacuuming, and wiping
surfaces, vs $50 for a detailing.
Hard to remember the decade, no matter the year, but I think mid to late
70s.
It doesn't surprise me that there are levels of detailing now.
--
chrles
charles
May 18, 2015, 12:33:21 AM5/18/15
to
In article <mjbhhv$9s3$1...@dont-email.me>,
> In my student days it marked a
> celebratory dinner for those who were leaving at the end of the year.
> Our pronunciation was [vAleIteI], by the way.
--
Peter Moylan <pe...@pmoylan.org> wrote:
> On 18/05/15 00:44, Janet wrote:
> > Many people would have their quality car valeted (:-)) before trying to
> > sell it.
> That prompted me to try to find out whether anyone ever uses "valete"
> (in English) as a verb. To my great surprise, OneLook found only one
> respectable dictionary that even listed the word, and that one (Collins)
> marked it "obsolete".
> Obsolete? I must be older than I thought.
It is a latin word - it means "farewell" or "Goodbye"
> On 18/05/15 00:44, Janet wrote:
> > Many people would have their quality car valeted (:-)) before trying to
> > sell it.
> That prompted me to try to find out whether anyone ever uses "valete"
> (in English) as a verb. To my great surprise, OneLook found only one
> respectable dictionary that even listed the word, and that one (Collins)
> marked it "obsolete".
> Obsolete? I must be older than I thought.
> In my student days it marked a
> celebratory dinner for those who were leaving at the end of the year.
> Our pronunciation was [vAleIteI], by the way.
--
Ian Noble
May 18, 2015, 11:31:01 AM5/18/15
to
On Fri, 15 May 2015 20:57:54 +0100, Katy Jennison
<ka...@spamtrap.kjennison.com> wrote:
>On 15/05/2015 19:16, Lewis wrote:
>> In message <54c41e81...@charleshope.demon.co.uk>
>> charles <cha...@charleshope.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>>> In article <7092efb2-088f-4aaa...@googlegroups.com>,
>>> Ramapriya D <d.ram...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> I've never heard anyone but Stephen Fry in 'Jeeves and Wooster' pronounce
>>>> 'valet' with the 't'. Since Fry is awfully erudite and since it doesn't
>>>> get any more English than J&W, is it that the rest of us are doing it
>>>> wrongly, pronouncing the word as if it was 'vale' with an accent atop 'e'?
>>
>>>> Comments welcome.
>>
>>> when taking part in an historical re-creation some yearss ago, I was told
>>> that the Edwardian pronunciation was "val-et". The other version is the
>>> French way, so it sould "posher".
>>
>> I think valet with the t is still the pronunciation in BrE, no? The
>> frenchified version is what is used in the US. But then again, people in
>> the US pronounce forte as for-tay.
>>
>
>Until very recently, I've only ever heard it without the T in BrE. Not
>that I've moved in the sort of circles where I'd have been likely to
>hear it very often.
Indeed. I think I heard it in the French pronunciation in the UK as
<ka...@spamtrap.kjennison.com> wrote:
>On 15/05/2015 19:16, Lewis wrote:
>> In message <54c41e81...@charleshope.demon.co.uk>
>> charles <cha...@charleshope.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>>> In article <7092efb2-088f-4aaa...@googlegroups.com>,
>>> Ramapriya D <d.ram...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> I've never heard anyone but Stephen Fry in 'Jeeves and Wooster' pronounce
>>>> 'valet' with the 't'. Since Fry is awfully erudite and since it doesn't
>>>> get any more English than J&W, is it that the rest of us are doing it
>>>> wrongly, pronouncing the word as if it was 'vale' with an accent atop 'e'?
>>
>>>> Comments welcome.
>>
>>> when taking part in an historical re-creation some yearss ago, I was told
>>> that the Edwardian pronunciation was "val-et". The other version is the
>>> French way, so it sould "posher".
>>
>> I think valet with the t is still the pronunciation in BrE, no? The
>> frenchified version is what is used in the US. But then again, people in
>> the US pronounce forte as for-tay.
>>
>
>Until very recently, I've only ever heard it without the T in BrE. Not
>that I've moved in the sort of circles where I'd have been likely to
>hear it very often.
far back as the early 60s, as one of the variants on the running
opening gag in the Kenneth Horne BBC Home Service radio comedy series
"Beyond our Ken".
The gag set-up was always the same: there would be two or three
sentences of hammed up dialogue setting a context, following by
Kenneth Williams declaiming "That was an exerpt from ((a pun on some
familiar title)), another in our series of 'Films Worth Remembering' -
which is more than can be said for the next half hour." "How Green was
my Valet?" was definitely one such.
The pun has been used in many contexts, I know, but "Beyond Our Ken"
aired from 1958-1964, though, which both puts a date on its use and
underlines that the BBC expected the pronunciation to be familiar to
its listeners. (I'm fairly sure that I have a copy of the episode in
question on CD somewhere, in fact - but I can't seem to lay my hands
on it right now, or I'd give precise air date.)
Going further back, in Gilbert & Sullivan's light operetta "The
Gondoliers", which opened in 1889, the word is rhymed (courtesy of
the stresses of the song in question) with "generAlly"
Cheers - Ian
(BrE: Yorks., Hants.)
---
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
http://www.avast.com
Ian Noble
May 18, 2015, 11:44:24 AM5/18/15
to
On Mon, 18 May 2015 16:30:58 +0100, Ian Noble
<ipn...@lose.sky.com.this> wrote:
>Going further back, in Gilbert & Sullivan's light operetta "The
>Gondoliers", which opened in 1889, the word is rhymed (courtesy of
>the stresses of the song in question) with "generAlly"
>
I should have added that the song in question is Giuseppe's patter
<ipn...@lose.sky.com.this> wrote:
>Going further back, in Gilbert & Sullivan's light operetta "The
>Gondoliers", which opened in 1889, the word is rhymed (courtesy of
>the stresses of the song in question) with "generAlly"
>
song, "Rising Early in the Morning" (a.k.a. "Philosophers may
sing..."), in Act 2:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aXv5NK1Au2o
The lines in question start at 1'19''
Robert Bannister
May 18, 2015, 7:40:57 PM5/18/15
to
On 18/05/2015 10:09 am, Peter Moylan wrote:
> On 18/05/15 00:44, Janet wrote:
>
>> Many people would have their quality car valeted (:-)) before trying to
>> sell it.
>
> That prompted me to try to find out whether anyone ever uses "valete"
> (in English) as a verb. To my great surprise, OneLook found only one
> respectable dictionary that even listed the word, and that one (Collins)
> marked it "obsolete".
>
> Obsolete? I must be older than I thought. In my student days it marked a
> celebratory dinner for those who were leaving at the end of the year.
> Our pronunciation was [vAleIteI], by the way.
>
I was quite surprised when I discovered that "valetudinarian" didn't
> On 18/05/15 00:44, Janet wrote:
>
>> Many people would have their quality car valeted (:-)) before trying to
>> sell it.
>
> That prompted me to try to find out whether anyone ever uses "valete"
> (in English) as a verb. To my great surprise, OneLook found only one
> respectable dictionary that even listed the word, and that one (Collins)
> marked it "obsolete".
>
> Obsolete? I must be older than I thought. In my student days it marked a
> celebratory dinner for those who were leaving at the end of the year.
> Our pronunciation was [vAleIteI], by the way.
>
means someone about to leave an institution or workplace, as in
school-leaver, new graduate, new retiree, etc.
--
Robert Bannister - 1940-71 SE England
1972-now W Australia
Guy Barry
May 19, 2015, 2:58:23 AM5/19/15
to
"Robert Bannister" wrote in message
news:crvbk6...@mid.individual.net...
>I was quite surprised when I discovered that "valetudinarian" didn't means
>someone about to leave an institution or workplace, as in school-leaver,
>new graduate, new retiree, etc.
So was I. It occurred roughly thirty seconds ago when I read your post. I
see it actually means "a person who is or believes himself to be chronically
sick". Haven't we got the perfectly good word "hypochondriac" for that?
Why would a word derived from the Latin for "farewell" mean the same thing?
--
Guy Barry
news:crvbk6...@mid.individual.net...
>I was quite surprised when I discovered that "valetudinarian" didn't means
>someone about to leave an institution or workplace, as in school-leaver,
>new graduate, new retiree, etc.
see it actually means "a person who is or believes himself to be chronically
sick". Haven't we got the perfectly good word "hypochondriac" for that?
Why would a word derived from the Latin for "farewell" mean the same thing?
--
Guy Barry
Ramapriya D
May 19, 2015, 3:18:21 AM5/19/15
to
Ramapriya
James Hogg
May 19, 2015, 3:39:31 AM5/19/15
to
"valere" gives the noun "valetudo" meaning "state of health". In Latin
that could mean both good health and bad health. The latter sense
yielded the noun "valetudinarium" (infirmary) and the adjective/noun
"valetudinarius" (sickly, weak, infirm, invalid).
Now, why should a Greek word meaning "below the cartilage of the breast"
come to denote a malade imaginaire?
--
James
Guy Barry
May 19, 2015, 5:30:04 AM5/19/15
to
"James Hogg" wrote in message news:mjep9d$87v$2...@dont-email.me...
have been someone who thought he'd soon be saying farewell to this earth (or
something like that).
>Now, why should a Greek word meaning "below the cartilage of the breast"
>come to denote a malade imaginaire?
That's another question I hadn't considered until I encountered it in this
thread. Hmm. The Online Etymology Dictionary says "reflecting ancient
belief that the viscera of the hypochondria [i.e. the abdomen] were the seat
of melancholy and the source of the vapors that caused such feelings". You
live and learn...
--
Guy Barry
>
>Guy Barry wrote:
>> "Robert Bannister" wrote in message
>> news:crvbk6...@mid.individual.net...
>>
>>> I was quite surprised when I discovered that "valetudinarian"
>>> didn't means someone about to leave an institution or workplace, as
>>> in school-leaver, new graduate, new retiree, etc.
>>
>> So was I. It occurred roughly thirty seconds ago when I read your post.
>> I see it actually means "a person who is or believes himself
>> to be chronically sick". Haven't we got the perfectly good word
>> "hypochondriac" for that? Why would a word derived from the Latin for
>> "farewell" mean the same thing?
>
>The word for "farewell" actually means "be healthy", and that verb
>"valere" gives the noun "valetudo" meaning "state of health". In Latin
>that could mean both good health and bad health. The latter sense
>yielded the noun "valetudinarium" (infirmary) and the adjective/noun
>"valetudinarius" (sickly, weak, infirm, invalid).
Ah, thanks. I'd vaguely assumed that a "valetudinarian" must originally
>Guy Barry wrote:
>> "Robert Bannister" wrote in message
>> news:crvbk6...@mid.individual.net...
>>
>>> I was quite surprised when I discovered that "valetudinarian"
>>> didn't means someone about to leave an institution or workplace, as
>>> in school-leaver, new graduate, new retiree, etc.
>>
>> So was I. It occurred roughly thirty seconds ago when I read your post.
>> I see it actually means "a person who is or believes himself
>> to be chronically sick". Haven't we got the perfectly good word
>> "hypochondriac" for that? Why would a word derived from the Latin for
>> "farewell" mean the same thing?
>
>The word for "farewell" actually means "be healthy", and that verb
>"valere" gives the noun "valetudo" meaning "state of health". In Latin
>that could mean both good health and bad health. The latter sense
>yielded the noun "valetudinarium" (infirmary) and the adjective/noun
>"valetudinarius" (sickly, weak, infirm, invalid).
have been someone who thought he'd soon be saying farewell to this earth (or
something like that).
>Now, why should a Greek word meaning "below the cartilage of the breast"
>come to denote a malade imaginaire?
thread. Hmm. The Online Etymology Dictionary says "reflecting ancient
belief that the viscera of the hypochondria [i.e. the abdomen] were the seat
of melancholy and the source of the vapors that caused such feelings". You
live and learn...
--
Guy Barry
Tony Cooper
May 19, 2015, 11:41:38 AM5/19/15
to
On Tue, 19 May 2015 07:58:26 +0100, "Guy Barry"
<guy....@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:
>"Robert Bannister" wrote in message
>news:crvbk6...@mid.individual.net...
>
>>I was quite surprised when I discovered that "valetudinarian" didn't means
>>someone about to leave an institution or workplace, as in school-leaver,
>>new graduate, new retiree, etc.
>
>So was I. It occurred roughly thirty seconds ago when I read your post. I
>see it actually means "a person who is or believes himself to be chronically
>sick".
I wonder if Arthur could come up with some sentences moving the word
<guy....@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:
>"Robert Bannister" wrote in message
>news:crvbk6...@mid.individual.net...
>
>>I was quite surprised when I discovered that "valetudinarian" didn't means
>>someone about to leave an institution or workplace, as in school-leaver,
>>new graduate, new retiree, etc.
>
>So was I. It occurred roughly thirty seconds ago when I read your post. I
>see it actually means "a person who is or believes himself to be chronically
>sick".
"chronically" around and see which version works best.
Justin Thyme
May 20, 2015, 7:03:54 AM5/20/15
to
Ramapriya D wrote:
> I've never heard anyone but Stephen Fry in 'Jeeves and Wooster' pronounce 'valet' with the 't'.
I, on the other hand, have never heard the word pronounced without it.
> I've never heard anyone but Stephen Fry in 'Jeeves and Wooster' pronounce 'valet' with the 't'.
> Since Fry is awfully erudite
is a kind of granite, and that something growing at a rate of 5000 items
per year was growing exponentially.
> and since it doesn't get any more English than J&W, is it that the rest of us are doing it wrongly, pronouncing the word as if it was 'vale' with an accent atop 'e'?
>
> Comments welcome.
>
>
>
--
Shall we only threaten and be angry for an hour?
When the storm is ended shall we find
How softly but how swiftly they have sidled back to power
By the favour and contrivance of their kind?
From /Mesopotamia/ by Rudyard Kipling
Peter Moylan
May 20, 2015, 8:32:25 AM5/20/15
to
On 20/05/15 21:03, Justin Thyme wrote:
to remember that we all make mistakes outside the areas of our own
competence.
> Ramapriya D wrote:
>> Since Fry is awfully erudite
>
> I agree with the 'awfully'. I have heard him claim that Carrara marble
> is a kind of granite, and that something growing at a rate of 5000 items
> per year was growing exponentially.
It's always tempting to jump on the errors of a pompous git, but we need
>> Since Fry is awfully erudite
>
> I agree with the 'awfully'. I have heard him claim that Carrara marble
> is a kind of granite, and that something growing at a rate of 5000 items
> per year was growing exponentially.
to remember that we all make mistakes outside the areas of our own
competence.
Sneaky O. Possum
May 20, 2015, 11:22:46 AM5/20/15
to
Peter Moylan <pe...@pmoylan.org> wrote in
news:mjhuqi$fg3$1...@dont-email.me:
> On 20/05/15 21:03, Justin Thyme wrote:
>> Ramapriya D wrote:
>
>>> Since Fry is awfully erudite
>>
>> I agree with the 'awfully'. I have heard him claim that Carrara
>> marble is a kind of granite, and that something growing at a rate of
>> 5000 items per year was growing exponentially.
>
> It's always tempting to jump on the errors of a pompous git, but we
> need to remember that we all make mistakes outside the areas of our
> own competence.
That's true, be we haven't all been given the opportunity to host a TV
show (I suppose it should call it a television programme) dedicated to
showing how awfully erudite we are in comparison to the panel members.
The blunders Fry occasionally makes on 'QI' are presumably down to the
writers, but the viewer only sees Fry repeat their mistakes, so he gets
the blame - which is not entirely unjust.
--
S.O.P.
news:mjhuqi$fg3$1...@dont-email.me:
> On 20/05/15 21:03, Justin Thyme wrote:
>> Ramapriya D wrote:
>
>>> Since Fry is awfully erudite
>>
>> I agree with the 'awfully'. I have heard him claim that Carrara
>> marble is a kind of granite, and that something growing at a rate of
>> 5000 items per year was growing exponentially.
>
> It's always tempting to jump on the errors of a pompous git, but we
> need to remember that we all make mistakes outside the areas of our
> own competence.
show (I suppose it should call it a television programme) dedicated to
showing how awfully erudite we are in comparison to the panel members.
The blunders Fry occasionally makes on 'QI' are presumably down to the
writers, but the viewer only sees Fry repeat their mistakes, so he gets
the blame - which is not entirely unjust.
--
S.O.P.
Robert Bannister
May 20, 2015, 7:02:13 PM5/20/15
to
On 20/05/2015 7:03 pm, Justin Thyme wrote:
> Ramapriya D wrote:
>> I've never heard anyone but Stephen Fry in 'Jeeves and Wooster'
>> pronounce 'valet' with the 't'.
>
> I, on the other hand, have never heard the word pronounced without it.
>
>> Since Fry is awfully erudite
>
> I agree with the 'awfully'. I have heard him claim that Carrara marble
> is a kind of granite, and that something growing at a rate of 5000 items
> per year was growing exponentially.
It's all too easy to take what you're told on QI as gospel. Even when
> Ramapriya D wrote:
>> I've never heard anyone but Stephen Fry in 'Jeeves and Wooster'
>> pronounce 'valet' with the 't'.
>
> I, on the other hand, have never heard the word pronounced without it.
>
>> Since Fry is awfully erudite
>
> I agree with the 'awfully'. I have heard him claim that Carrara marble
> is a kind of granite, and that something growing at a rate of 5000 items
> per year was growing exponentially.
you discover errors, you wonder whether it really was a mistake or
whether you've been had.
Richard Bollard
May 21, 2015, 7:08:41 PM5/21/15
to
them. This is sometimes done on the show itself but I think there is a
web site or similar.
--
Richard Bollard
Canberra Australia
To email, I'm at AMT not spAMT.
It is loading more messages.
0 new messages