Fornication -- screwed-up etymology?
Roger Lustig
In article <1991Jun5.1...@zia.aoc.nrao.edu> rmi...@zia.aoc.nrao.edu (Ruth Milner) writes:
>In article <6...@lysator.liu.se> aron...@lysator.liu.se (Lars Aronsson) writes:
>>buck...@ucs.ubc.ca (Tony Buckland) writes:
>>>aron...@lysator.liu.se (Lars Aronsson) writes:
>>>>Of course we don't "categorically deny", but we "fornekar kategoriskt"
>>> I'd be fascinated to know whether the English verb "fornicate" has
>>> anything in common with Swedish denial,
>>English no/nay say no deny fornication
>>Swedish nej neka for- forneka otukt/hor
>>German nein ver- verneien(?)
>Although I don't know the roots, I suspect these are words English got from
>Latin rather than German, both "deny" and "fornicate". I'd suggest the latter
>perhaps is from the same place as the English "furnace" and Italian "forno"
>(meaning "oven") -> heat -> passion? I'll admit, it's a stretch, but there is
>some analogy there.
You're quite right about the source, but not about the meaning. The root
is the Latin _fornix_ meaning vault, i.e., basement. To fornicate was
to slip off to the basement (which was often vaulted) and, well, you
know. It meant "illicit sex," sex you didn't want anyone to know about,
so you hid it from everyone, including the servants.
Ovens and furnaces were also vaulted, and usually in basements -- one or
the other is the source for the transformation in meaning. Probably the
vaulted shape.
Besides, who says that fornication has to be passionate? 8-)
>Also, you can't put unrelated pieces of another language together and come up
>with an English root. It doesn't work like that. In general, if they're
>related, the meaning is at least similar.
Indeed. You can have lots of fun here: "fornix" as derived from "place
you take someone who isn;t your spouse either, i.e., you're getting it
for nix.
Laugh all you want -- I've heard worse derivations given with a straight
face.
Roger
"Nothin' says lovin' like something from the oven." --old Pillsbury
commercial found inscribed on the walls of Pompeii. 8-)
Murthy Yenamandra
>
>Indeed. You can have lots of fun here: "fornix" as derived from "place
>you take someone who isn;t your spouse either, i.e., you're getting it
>for nix.
>
>Laugh all you want -- I've heard worse derivations given with a straight
>face.
You must've seen the derivation given for
california - [from Latin "calore" meaning "heat" as in English "calorie" and
Spanish "caliendo" and "fornix", the root of "fornication"]
land of hot sex.
and
seminars - [from "semi"( half) and "arse"( you know :-))]
half-assed discussions.
Murthy
yena...@cs.umn.edu
--
"I'm guided by a signal in the heavens,
I'm guided by this birthmark on my skin;
I'm guided by the beauty of our weapons,
First, we take Manhattan; then we take Berlin..."
Jitze Couperus
>>Although I don't know the roots, I suspect these are words English got from
>>Latin rather than German, both "deny" and "fornicate". I'd suggest the latter
>>perhaps is from the same place as the English "furnace" and Italian "forno"
>>(meaning "oven") -> heat -> passion? I'll admit, it's a stretch, but there is
>>some analogy there.
>You're quite right about the source, but not about the meaning. The root
>is the Latin _fornix_ meaning vault, i.e., basement. To fornicate was
>to slip off to the basement (which was often vaulted) and, well, you
>know. It meant "illicit sex," sex you didn't want anyone to know about,
>so you hid it from everyone, including the servants.
>Ovens and furnaces were also vaulted, and usually in basements -- one or
>the other is the source for the transformation in meaning. Probably the
>vaulted shape.
The way I heard it was also the Latin _fornix_ but meaning an "arch" and
this was (take your pick)
a) A reference to the ladies of the night hanging out underneath
the arches (shades of Lili Marlene)
b) A reference (how to put this delicately?) to the arch formed by the
legs of aforementioned ladies as they paraded before their
clientele in skimpy attire
--
Jitze Couperus Control Data - Silicon Valley Operations
ji...@svl.cdc.com Voice (408) 496-4334 FAX (408) 496-4106
Jamez de Coilier
I could have sworn ji...@u02.svl.cdc.com (Jitze Couperus) managed to say:
>The way I heard it was also the Latin _fornix_ but meaning an "arch" and
>this was (take your pick)
>
> a) A reference to the ladies of the night hanging out underneath
> the arches (shades of Lili Marlene)
> b) A reference (how to put this delicately?) to the arch formed by the
> legs of aforementioned ladies as they paraded before their
> clientele in skimpy attire
>--
>Jitze Couperus Control Data - Silicon Valley Operations
>ji...@svl.cdc.com Voice (408) 496-4334 FAX (408) 496-4106
but I have seen pictures of old bordellos. The facias of some of these
buildings are quite explicit ..... legs, with the doors in the obvious place.
--
from the office of,
James Burton. Latrobe University, Melbourne, Australia.
Email bur...@latcs1.lat.oz.au
G Toal
>seminars - [from "semi"( half) and "arse"( you know :-))]
And my favourite (first heard from my Sergeant-Major many moons ago):
expert: from ex- meaning 'has-been' and spurt meaning 'a little drip
under pressure'.
Who says Sergeants-Major don't have a sense of humour?
G
(Not I!)