List shoes
Marius Hancu
What are "list shoes?" Shoes made of cutout pieces, of strips, of some
stuff?
-----
The children in list shoes ran about there as if it were an enclosure
made for them.
Flaubert, Gustave - Madame Bovary, p. 145
Tr. Eleanor Marx-Aveling
http://www.classicallibrary.org/flaubert/bovary/15.htm
------
The original:
------
Les enfants en chaussons couraient lą comme sur un parquet fait pour
eux, et on entendait les éclats de leurs voix ą travers le bourdonnement
de la cloche.
------
I found:
-------
list
4 a chiefly Britain : a strip forming the edge of a woven fabric :
SELVAGE <pieces having tightly woven lists which curl badly should be
sewn together ... and dyed in tubular form -- C.M.Whittaker &
C.C.Wilcock> b archaic : a material resembling selvage <have had list
nailed round my doors, and stopping every crack -- Mary Delany>
M-W Unabridged
-------
Thanks.
Marius Hancu
the Omrud
> Hello:
>
> What are "list shoes?" Shoes made of cutout pieces, of strips, of some
> stuff?
>
> -----
> The children in list shoes ran about there as if it were an enclosure
> made for them.
>
> Flaubert, Gustave - Madame Bovary, p. 145
> Tr. Eleanor Marx-Aveling
> http://www.classicallibrary.org/flaubert/bovary/15.htm
> ------
>
> The original:
> ------
> eux, et on entendait les éclats de leurs voix à travers le bourdonnement
> ------
>
> I found:
> -------
> list
>
> 4 a chiefly Britain : a strip forming the edge of a woven fabric :
> SELVAGE <pieces having tightly woven lists which curl badly should be
> sewn together ... and dyed in tubular form -- C.M.Whittaker &
> C.C.Wilcock> b archaic : a material resembling selvage <have had list
> nailed round my doors, and stopping every crack -- Mary Delany>
I have no idea, but I find them in a letter from Jane Austen:
Your silence on the subject of our ball makes me
suppose your curiosity too great for words. We
were very well entertained, and could have stayed
longer but for the arrival of my list shoes to
convey me home, and I did not like to keep them
waiting in the cold.
Something you wear out-of-doors, I suppose.
--
David
HVS
> Marius Hancu wrote:
>> Hello:
>>
>> What are "list shoes?" Shoes made of cutout pieces, of strips,
>> of some stuff?
>>
>> -----
>> The children in list shoes ran about there as if it were an
>> enclosure made for them.
>>
>> Flaubert, Gustave - Madame Bovary, p. 145
>> Tr. Eleanor Marx-Aveling
>> http://www.classicallibrary.org/flaubert/bovary/15.htm
>> ------
>>
>> The original:
>> ------
>> Les enfants en chaussons couraient lą comme sur un parquet fait
>> pour eux, et on entendait les éclats de leurs voix ą travers le
>> bourdonnement de la cloche.
>> ------
>>
>> I found:
>> -------
>> list
>>
>> 4 a chiefly Britain : a strip forming the edge of a woven
>> fabric : SELVAGE <pieces having tightly woven lists which curl
>> badly should be sewn together ... and dyed in tubular form --
>> C.M.Whittaker & C.C.Wilcock> b archaic : a material resembling
>> selvage <have had list nailed round my doors, and stopping
>> every crack -- Mary Delany>
>
> I have no idea, but I find them in a letter from Jane Austen:
>
> Your silence on the subject of our ball makes me
> suppose your curiosity too great for words. We
> were very well entertained, and could have stayed
> longer but for the arrival of my list shoes to
> convey me home, and I did not like to keep them
> waiting in the cold.
>
> Something you wear out-of-doors, I suppose.
OED's only use of list as an adjective is an obsolete/dialict usage
meaning "ready, quick". The say it's usually used to describe
hearing (easily heard), but also have:
1823 GALT Gilhaize II. 130 When any of his disciples were not just
so list and brisk as they might have been.
Perhaps they're shoes for moving quickly in -- the equivalent of
modern-day running shoes/trainers/sports shoes?
--
Cheers, Harvey
CanEng and BrEng, indiscriminately mixed
Marius Hancu
> Perhaps they're shoes for moving quickly in -- the equivalent of
> modern-day running shoes/trainers/sports shoes?
Perhaps. In another context, they seem to be used as galoshes.
Thank you both.
Marius Hancu
Don Phillipson
news:SNP3k.102$78....@weber.videotron.net...
> Hello:
>
> What are "list shoes?" Shoes made of cutout pieces, of strips, of some
> stuff?
>
> -----
> The children in list shoes ran about there as if it were an enclosure
> made for them.
>
> Flaubert, Gustave - Madame Bovary, p. 145
> Tr. Eleanor Marx-Aveling
> http://www.classicallibrary.org/flaubert/bovary/15.htm
> ------
>
> The original:
> ------
> Les enfants en chaussons couraient lą comme sur un parquet fait pour
> eux, et on entendait les éclats de leurs voix ą travers le bourdonnement
> de la cloche.
French chaussons = slippers
as distinct from chaussures = footwear and
chaussettes = socks.
In English, list shoes = shoes made of fabric rather
than leather, i.e. cheap (indoor) shoes, i.e. slippers.
Flaubert wrote that children's voices could be heard
but mentioned no footsteps.
--
Don Phillipson
Carlsbad Springs
(Ottawa, Canada)
Marius Hancu
> In English, list shoes = shoes made of fabric rather
> than leather
Thanks for confirming that hunch I had:-)
Marius Hancu
John Dean
> Hello:
>
> What are "list shoes?" Shoes made of cutout pieces, of strips, of some
> stuff?
>
> -----
> The children in list shoes ran about there as if it were an enclosure
> made for them.
>
> Flaubert, Gustave - Madame Bovary, p. 145
> Tr. Eleanor Marx-Aveling
> http://www.classicallibrary.org/flaubert/bovary/15.htm
> ------
>
> The original:
> ------
> eux, et on entendait les éclats de leurs voix à travers le
> bourdonnement de la cloche.
> ------
>
> I found:
> -------
> list
>
> 4 a chiefly Britain : a strip forming the edge of a woven fabric :
> SELVAGE <pieces having tightly woven lists which curl badly should be
> sewn together ... and dyed in tubular form -- C.M.Whittaker &
> C.C.Wilcock> b archaic : a material resembling selvage <have had list
> nailed round my doors, and stopping every crack -- Mary Delany>
>
> M-W Unabridged
Yair. OED has them:
d. attrib. (quasi-adj.) = Made of list.
1661 Inuentarye in MS. Rawl. A. 182 lf. 311 On rugg, 2 Liste couerlids
[etc.]. 1809 Jane Austen Let. 24 Jan. (1952) 257 We+could have staid longer
but for the arrival of my List shoes to convey me home. 1847 C. Brontë J.
Eyre xvii. (1890) 171 Her quiet tread muffled in a list slipper. 1851
Illustr. Catal. Gt. Exhib. 1121 List carpet. 1856 Dickens Dorrit (1857) i.
xiii. 106 Mr. Casby rose up in his list shoes. 1866 Mrs. H. Wood St.
Martin's Eve xvii. (1874) 193, I have got on list shoes, ma'am. 1901 Q.
Rev. Apr. 485 List cushions were abandoned in favour of rubber. 1908 A.
Bennett Old Wives' Tale iv. iii. 480 Sophia wore list slippers in the
morning. It was a habit which she had formed in the Rue Lord Byron-by
accident rather than with an intention to utilize list slippers for the
effective supervision of servants.
'list' in this sense being:
2. a. spec. The selvage, border, or edge of a cloth, usually of different
material from the body of the cloth. ?Phrase, within the lists (usual in
statements of measurement). [So F. liste in Cotgr.]
and thence
c. In generalized use: Such selvages collectively; the material of which
the selvage of cloth consists.
NB, since the French has "sur un parquet" rather than "dans un parquet" I
wonder if the intended meaning is 'floor', 'path' or 'surface' rather than
"an enclosure"
--
John Dean
Oxford
Marius Hancu
> > list
>
> > 4 a chiefly Britain : a strip forming the edge of a woven fabric :
Which is harder than the main part of the fabric, I assume?
Thanks.
Marius Hancu
Richard Maurer
What are "list shoes?" Shoes made of cutout pieces,
of strips, of some stuff?
All of the literature examples give the idea that they
were quiet shoes. The following question and answer
are from a genealogy page.
Someone enquired about:
The arresting constable gives details of his clothing
and that he wore a "wide-awake hat". He also wore
"list shoes", which I asume by the description were
a soft slipper-like shoe.
Eve McLaughlin wrote:
yes, made of rough felted material, often cut from
the border of a larger cloth, so it would have a
selvage marking on it.
http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/read/LONDON/2005-10/1130173638
Peter Duncanson (BrE)
I went searching. The trail ended with a "Eureka" moment.
http://www.hrionline.ac.uk/oldbailey/html_units/1830s/t18310217-16.html
GEORGE LONSDALE, JOHN HOWELL, EDWARD MALLETT, WILLIAM ALLEN,
theft : housebreaking, 17th February, 1831.
The Proceedings of the Old Bailey Ref: t18310217-16
JAMES WHITAKER . I am a Police-constable. On the morning of
the 15th of February I was in Mecklenburgh-square, about a
quarter to three o'clock; I heard a rattle spring, went to
North-place, Gray's Inn-road and met Mr. Brown; my attention
was directed to the roofs of the houses, and I saw three men
moving; they were coming from Mr. Brown's house towards No.
51, North-place - I went to No. 51 with the officers,
O'Donnell and Sheehey; I got the key from Mr. Morgan, who
lives next door, and went in with the two officers - I went
up to the third flight of stairs, and saw the prisoners
Lonsdale, Howell, and Mallett, and secured them there on the
third flight in that house - Mallett had neither hat nor
--> shoes on; Lonsdale had a pair of list shoes on - Mallett
said he had left his shoes and hat on the roof of the house
- I did not find them myself.
....
JAMES CARTER . I am a Police-constable. I searched the loft
of the house, No. 51, North-place, and found a pair of
shoes; ....
Cross-examined by MR. ADOLPHUS. Q. I suppose there is
nothing particular in the size of his feet? A. Not that I am
aware of - he did not own them in my presence; he had a pair
--> of list slippers on.
Charles Dickens, Little Dorrit:
http://www.charlesdickensonline.co.uk/littledorrit/chapter13.html
The figure of a man advanced in life, whose smooth grey
eyebrows seemed to move to the ticking as the fire-light
--> flickered on them, sat in an arm-chair, with his list shoes
on the rug, and his thumbs slowly revolving over one
another. This was old Christopher Casby--recognisable at a
glance--as unchanged in twenty years and upward as his own
solid furniture--as little touched by the influence of the
varying seasons as the old rose-leaves and old lavender in
his porcelain jars.
From the Correspondence of William Henry Fox Talbot:
http://foxtalbot.dmu.ac.uk/letters/transcriptDate.php?month=1&year=1830&pageNumber=1&pageTotal=10&referringPage=
or http://tinyurl.com/4fm5u8
Pray buy for me a pair of List Shoes ten inches long. They
must be all list as they are for walking on slippery ground
& not have leather soles but list. Likewise 2 prs of the
same an inch & half longer for yr sisters. I shd think
Franklins could execute these.
OED:
list, n.3
I. Border, edging, strip.
{dag}1. a. gen. A border, hem, bordering strip. Obs.
{dag}b. ...
2. a. spec. The selvage, border, or edge of a cloth, usually
of different material from the body of the cloth.
{dag}Phrase, within the lists (usual in statements of
measurement). [So F. liste in Cotgr.]
b. fig. and proverbial.
c. In generalized use: Such selvages collectively; the
--> material of which the selvage of cloth consists.
--> d. attrib. (quasi-adj.) = Made of list.
That seems to be it. "List" is a woven fabric.
--
Peter Duncanson, UK
(in alt.usage.english)
Mike Lyle
No, it's definitely the noun. OED isn't as clear as I'd like, but it has
a lot of examples of shoes and slippers made of whatever it is. I think
the salient characteristics may be cheapness and softness. Perhaps
Jane's were overshoes. /Chaussons/ simply means "slippers".
--
Mike.
** Posted from http://www.teranews.com **
jerry_f...@yahoo.com
> Marius Hancu wrote:
> > Hello:
>
> > What are "list shoes?" Shoes made of cutout pieces, of strips, of some
> > stuff?
>
> > -----
> > made for them.
>
> > Flaubert, Gustave - Madame Bovary, p. 145
> > Tr. Eleanor Marx-Aveling
> >http://www.classicallibrary.org/flaubert/bovary/15.htm
> > ------
>
> > The original:
> > ------
> > Les enfants en chaussons couraient là comme sur un parquet fait pour
> > eux, et on entendait les éclats de leurs voix à travers le
> > bourdonnement de la cloche.
> > ------
>
> > I found:
> > -------
> >list
>
> > 4 a chiefly Britain : a strip forming the edge of a woven fabric :
> > SELVAGE <pieces having tightly woven lists which curl badly should be
> > sewn together ... and dyed in tubular form -- C.M.Whittaker &
> > C.C.Wilcock> b archaic : a material resembling selvage <have had list
> > nailed round my doors, and stopping every crack -- Mary Delany>
>
> > M-W Unabridged
>
> Yair. OED has them:
>
> d. attrib. (quasi-adj.) = Made oflist.
> 1661 Inuentarye in MS. Rawl. A. 182 lf. 311 On rugg, 2 Liste couerlids
> [etc.]. 1809 Jane Austen Let. 24 Jan. (1952) 257 We+could have staid longer
> Eyre xvii. (1890) 171 Her quiet tread muffled in a list slipper. 1851
> Illustr. Catal. Gt. Exhib. 1121 List carpet. 1856 Dickens Dorrit (1857) i.
> xiii. 106 Mr. Casby rose up in his list shoes. 1866 Mrs. H. Wood St.
> Martin's Eve xvii. (1874) 193, I have got on list shoes, ma'am. 1901 Q.
> Rev. Apr. 485 List cushions were abandoned in favour of rubber. 1908 A.
> Bennett Old Wives' Tale iv. iii. 480 Sophia wore list slippers in the
> morning. It was a habit which she had formed in the Rue Lord Byron-by
> accident rather than with an intention to utilize list slippers for the
> effective supervision of servants.
>
> 'list' in this sense being:
>
> 2. a. spec. The selvage, border, or edge of a cloth, usually of different
> material from the body of the cloth. ?Phrase, within the lists (usual in
> statements of measurement). [So F. liste in Cotgr.]
>
> and thence
>
> c. In generalized use: Such selvages collectively; the material of which
> the selvage of cloth consists.
>
> NB, since the French has "sur un parquet" rather than "dans un parquet" I
> wonder if the intended meaning is 'floor', 'path' or 'surface' rather than
> "an enclosure"
The Penguin Classic edition, translated by Geoffrey Wall and
searchable at Amazon, has
"The children ran around in their canvas shoes as though it had been a
playground..."
My Cassell's says /chausson/ can mean "gym shoe (for rackets, fencing,
etc.)" as well as slipper, baby's bootee, and turnover (pastry).
Rackets and fencing--I don't recall that that's what we wore our Red
Ball Jets or Converse All-Stars for.
I suspect it means, "The children in proto-gym-shoes ran around as if
it had been a proto-gym."
--
Jerry Friedman
Lanarcam
>>> eux, et on entendait les éclats de leurs voix ą travers le
>>> bourdonnement de la cloche.
>>> ------
>
> it had been a proto-gym."
>
I read it as: the children wearing slippers were running there
as on a wooden floor designed for them...
Chaussons could also mean ballet dancers shoes, I can't decide.
jerry_f...@yahoo.com
> >>> eux, et on entendait les éclats de leurs voix à travers le
> >>> bourdonnement de la cloche.
> >>> ------
>
> > I suspect it means, "The children in proto-gym-shoes ran around as if
> > it had been a proto-gym."
>
> I read it as: the children wearing slippers were running there
> as on a wooden floor designed for them...
>
> Chaussons could also mean ballet dancers shoes, I can't decide.
Marmur's translation, now that I can see it, says, "The children,
wearing soft shoes, were running around as if on a floor made
especially for them."
I suspect it's neither exactly carpet slippers, tennis shoes, nor
ballet shoes, but soft cloth shoes without laces that are ancestral
(or at least great-uncles) to all three.
--
Jerry Friedman
mb
...
> NB, since the French has "sur un parquet" rather than "dans un parquet" I
> wonder if the intended meaning is 'floor', 'path' or 'surface' rather than
> "an enclosure"
Only interpretation.
"Dans un parquet" could (conceivably only, not met) belong to a
movement of paperwork within some prosecutor's (or juge d'instruction)
office...
Robert Lieblich
>
> Hello:
>
> What are "list shoes?" Shoes made of cutout pieces, of strips, of some
> stuff?
>
> -----
> The children in list shoes ran about there as if it were an enclosure
> made for them.
Everyone else has it wrong. "List shoes" are made with one sole
thicker than the other. This makes the person wearing them list
slightly. They can be bought either-handed, so the wearer has a
choice of listing to port or to starboard.
Fortunately, I list naturally (to the right), so I don't need them.
--
Bob Lieblich
Some of those "list shoes" are very posh
Isabelle Cecchini
The definition of "list shoes" in the OED fits the definition of
"chaussons de lisière" in various French historical dictionaries.
"Chaussons de lisière" were made out of strips of cloth taken from the
"lisière" =list, selvage of old bedsheets. That job seems to have been
considered a fit occupation for people in jail, or for blind people in
institutions. Braille worked at making "chaussons de lisière" at one time.
A book entitled /Essai sur l'instruction des aveugles/, published in
1820 has an illustration showing a girl working at making those slippers,
http://books.google.fr/books?id=9wETAAAAIAAJ&pg=RA2-PA276&dq=%22chaussons+de+lisi%C3%A8re%22+aveugles#PRA2-PA235,M1
while another illustration, a few pages onward, shows us the same
principle applied to the making of carpets or rug rats, "tapis de
lisière". The second illustration makes it very clear that the strips of
cloth were woven together.
Those slippers had various uses --I suppose there would have been
several models available.
They could be worn indoors.
They could be worn outdoors, on their own, which would have been a sign
of great poverty, I think.
They could be worn inside clogs, a bit like socks.
They could be worn outside the shoes, in case of snow or cold weather,
in order both to protect the shoes, and to make it easier to walk on a
slippery ground. That last use, I think, takes care of the Jane Austen
quote, and also of at least another mention in /Madame Bovary/ of "list
shoes", "pantoufles de lisière" in the original French.
--
Isabelle Cecchini