ial v al - how are they suffixed for different words?
Fullbe
be used as suffix, and also ian and an.
For example, political, commercial, substantial.
Also, politicians and not politicans.
Are there links explaining this?
Athel Cornish-Bowden
> I have trouble remembering when ial should be used and when al should
> be used as suffix, and also ian and an.
>
> For example, political, commercial, substantial.
As a quick rule of thumb (there may be exceptions), use -ial if the
noun ends in -ce; otherwise use -al.
>
> Also, politicians and not politicans.
Same idea.
>
> Are there links explaining this?
--
athel
Dominic Bojarski
The English spelling generally reflects the Latin spelling. Without a
firm basis in Latin declensions, conjugations and phonetics, you are
highly unlikely to make sense of any rules. Try this page for an
EXTENSIVE explanation of how Latininate words are spelled in English :
http://spellingbeemaster.com/LanguageSamples/Latin.htm
On top of that, many of these words were passed into English through
French, and their spelling was affected by medieval Norman French
orthographical practices. The English spelling sometimes does not
conform with what you would expect based on the Latin roots.
Sorry, but the easiest way to learn the spelling of these words is to
learn them one by one, and to rely on how the words are pronounced in
this case. This is what native speakers do, and they practically never
have the same problem you do. "Politican", "politicial" and
"commercal" are extremely rare orthographical mistakes among native
speakers, and the corresponding pronunciations are seldom, if ever,
heard. If you see them mispelled, they are almost certainly
typographical mistakes, not orthographical ones.
I'm presuming that you are not a native speaker, and have no knowledge
of Latin and French. English orthography and pronunciation are very
complicated, and consists of FOUR separate systems, each with its own
rules: one for native Anglo-Saxon words, a second for assimilated
Norman French words, a third for assimilated Latin words, and a fourth
for assimilated Greek words. Recognizing the origin of a word helps a
lot with pronunciation and spelling.
Dominic
Fullbe
wrote:
I am a "native speaker" but I find this hard still and a Google search
shows 118,000 references to "politicial" eg
http://www.allvoices.com/contributed-news/7899053-politicial-unrest-in-tunisia-will-it-spread-to-other-arab-countries.
It is demeaning when people know so little about their own
compatriots.
Dominic Bojarski
>
> It is demeaning when people know so little about their own
> compatriots.
If you're a native speaker, then it's really easy. You spell it
according to how you pronounce it (assuming that your pronunciation
does not radically diverge from the overwhelming majority).
1) If after b, d, f, h, l, m, n, p and qu, you say "ee-ul" as in
"real" or "ee-un" as in "wee 'un", you spell it -ial or -ian (labial,
radial, menial, cranial).
2) If you pronounce it as just "ul" or "un", without the "ee" sound,
then it's -al or -an (pedal, amimal, penal, equal).
3) If a proceeding c is pronounced "soft" like "s" or "sh", "s" is
pronounced like "sh" or like the "s" in pleasure, "t" is pronounced
like "sh" or "ch", or "g" is pronounced like "j" as in "jelly, the
ending is spelled -ial or -ian (commercial, politician, martial,
Christian, Norwegian). Note: Some people pronounce some of these
words with an "ee" sound, in which case the first rule would apply,
and "c" would be pronounced like "s".
4) If c, s, t, or g are prononounced hard like in cow, sow, tow or
gown, (and with no "ee" sound"), or s is pronounced like "z", then
it's -al or -an. (Political, American, basal, nasal, marital, vegan).
In other words, if there is no "ee" sound, and "c" is pronouced as in
cow, "s" is pronounced as in "sow" or "zone", "t" is pronounced as in
town, and "g" is pronounced as in "gown", there is no "i" in the
ending.
By the way, I checked the first fifty google hits for "politician",
and 44 were definitely typographical mistakes, not orthographical ones
(if you read the rest of the articles, you will find that the word is
consistantly spelled "political" throughout. Five were indeterminate
because they were too short, and the only two examples I could find of
genuine orthographical mistakes were by an Arab and a Rumanian. Like I
said, it's a very rare orthographical mistake among native speakers,
except among the few, like you, who haven't figured out that the
spelling depends on the pronunciation.
Last of all, never rely on Google hits. Nobody knows how they are
calculated, but they certainly don't reflect the number of web pages
containing a word. The numbers don't really mean anything at all, in
fact. They're completely bogus. I highly doubt that there are 118,000
web pages with the word "politicial" in them. Even as a typographical
error, "politicial" is not THAT common. If you page through the
118,000 supposed hits Google reports, you'll find that Google stops
showing hits after only 595 sites.
Dominic
John Varela
<dominic...@gmail.com> wrote:
> By the way, I checked the first fifty google hits for "politician",
Typo.
--
John Varela
Dominic Bojarski
> On Tue, 15 Feb 2011 16:17:55 UTC, Dominic Bojarski
>
> > By the way, I checked the first fifty google hits for "politician",
>
> Typo.
>
> --
> John Varela
Jeez Louise. I even checked for that. Of course I meant "politicial".
Thanks.
Dominic