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HVS
Jun 17, 2017, 12:00:45 PM6/17/17
to
It appears that Bill Cosby's trial has ended with a hung jury, which
has been reported as a "mistrial".
This caught my eye, as I thought a mistrial is when something legal
or technical happens - things like jury-nobbling, the death of a
critical witness, or one of the main lawyers.
Looking it up, the "hung jury" sense of the word is marked in at
least one dictionary as "US" (which might explain why it seemed odd
to me), but I've not been able to determine if that usage appears
elsewhere, and I've just not noticed it.
So: exclusively AmEng, or found elsewhere?
--
Cheers, Harvey
CanE (30 years) & BrE (34 years),
indiscriminately mixed
has been reported as a "mistrial".
This caught my eye, as I thought a mistrial is when something legal
or technical happens - things like jury-nobbling, the death of a
critical witness, or one of the main lawyers.
Looking it up, the "hung jury" sense of the word is marked in at
least one dictionary as "US" (which might explain why it seemed odd
to me), but I've not been able to determine if that usage appears
elsewhere, and I've just not noticed it.
So: exclusively AmEng, or found elsewhere?
--
Cheers, Harvey
CanE (30 years) & BrE (34 years),
indiscriminately mixed
Athel Cornish-Bowden
Jun 17, 2017, 12:16:05 PM6/17/17
to
On 2017-06-17 16:00:44 +0000, HVS said:
> It appears that Bill Cosby's trial has ended with a hung jury, which
> has been reported as a "mistrial".
> This caught my eye, as I thought a mistrial is when something legal or
> technical happens - things like jury-nobbling, the death of a critical
> witness, or one of the main lawyers.
> Looking it up, the "hung jury" sense of the word is marked in at least
> one dictionary as "US" (which might explain why it seemed odd to me),
> but I've not been able to determine if that usage appears elsewhere,
> and I've just not noticed it.
> So: exclusively AmEng, or found elsewhere?
It's a bit of a misle as well. Each time I see it I try to analyse it
> It appears that Bill Cosby's trial has ended with a hung jury, which
> has been reported as a "mistrial".
> This caught my eye, as I thought a mistrial is when something legal or
> technical happens - things like jury-nobbling, the death of a critical
> witness, or one of the main lawyers.
> Looking it up, the "hung jury" sense of the word is marked in at least
> one dictionary as "US" (which might explain why it seemed odd to me),
> but I've not been able to determine if that usage appears elsewhere,
> and I've just not noticed it.
> So: exclusively AmEng, or found elsewhere?
as ['mɪstrɪəl]. We were supposed to have a Mistral today, but it hasn't
arrived. Maybe tomorrow.
--
athel
Peter Moylan
Jun 17, 2017, 12:48:11 PM6/17/17
to
On 18/06/17 02:00, HVS wrote:
> It appears that Bill Cosby's trial has ended with a hung jury, which has
> been reported as a "mistrial".
> This caught my eye, as I thought a mistrial is when something legal or
> technical happens - things like jury-nobbling, the death of a critical
> witness, or one of the main lawyers.
> Looking it up, the "hung jury" sense of the word is marked in at least
> one dictionary as "US" (which might explain why it seemed odd to me),
> but I've not been able to determine if that usage appears elsewhere, and
> I've just not noticed it.
> So: exclusively AmEng, or found elsewhere?
I would certainly interpret it the way you do: the trial had to be
> It appears that Bill Cosby's trial has ended with a hung jury, which has
> been reported as a "mistrial".
> This caught my eye, as I thought a mistrial is when something legal or
> technical happens - things like jury-nobbling, the death of a critical
> witness, or one of the main lawyers.
> Looking it up, the "hung jury" sense of the word is marked in at least
> one dictionary as "US" (which might explain why it seemed odd to me),
> but I've not been able to determine if that usage appears elsewhere, and
> I've just not noticed it.
> So: exclusively AmEng, or found elsewhere?
aborted because of some technical fault, and a new trial had to be
scheduled with a new jury and probably a different judge.
--
Peter Moylan http://www.pmoylan.org
Newcastle, NSW, Australia
![Peter Duncanson [BrE]'s profile photo](http://lh3.googleusercontent.com/a-/ALV-UjU1GGYFBCZgBCNB-pRgkosMu-ej0qpnECw3jc8uGYOTiF8a=s40-c)
Peter Duncanson [BrE]
Jun 17, 2017, 1:56:57 PM6/17/17
to
On Sat, 17 Jun 2017 17:00:44 +0100, HVS <use...@REMOVETHISwhhvs.co.uk>
wrote:
>It appears that Bill Cosby's trial has ended with a hung jury, which
>has been reported as a "mistrial".
>
>This caught my eye, as I thought a mistrial is when something legal
>or technical happens - things like jury-nobbling, the death of a
>critical witness, or one of the main lawyers.
>
>Looking it up, the "hung jury" sense of the word is marked in at
>least one dictionary as "US" (which might explain why it seemed odd
>to me), but I've not been able to determine if that usage appears
>elsewhere, and I've just not noticed it.
>
>So: exclusively AmEng, or found elsewhere?
Wikip defines it without saying whether it is exclusively AmEng:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trial#Mistrials
A judge may declare a mistrial due to:
The court determining that it lacks jurisdiction over a case.
Evidence being admitted improperly.
Misconduct by a party, juror,[1] or an outside actor, if it
prevents due process.
A hung jury which cannot reach a verdict with the required
degree of unanimity. In a criminal trial, if the jury is able
to reach a verdict on some charges but not others, the
defendant may be retried on the charges that led to the
deadlock, at the discretion of the prosecution.
Disqualification of a juror after the jury is impaneled, if no
alternate juror is available and the litigants do not agree to
proceed with the remaining jurors.
Attempting to change a plea during an ongoing trial, which
normally is not allowed.[1]
A declaration of a mistrial generally means that a court must hold a
retrial on the same subject.
[1] A change of plea during a trial is permitted in my neck of the
woods. The one and only time I sat on a jury the trial was expected to
last a week or more. The first day the prosecution began the
presentation of their case, with evidence and witnesses. We came back
the next day expecting proceedings to continue, but the leading defence
lawyer announced that the accused wished to change her plea to guilty.
The judge confirmed that with the accused. We, the jury, were discharged
and the trial moved into the sentencing phase. One of the jurors went
into the public gallery to watch the rest of the proceedings. The rest
of us left, full of relief.
The relief was particularly because the case was expected to be
complicated. The charge was of "false accounting". Each juror was given
written evidence in the form of a book of documents that was 1.5 inches
thick.
I don't know what happens if the accused initially pleads "guilty" and
then wants to change that to "not guilty".
I've searched for "mistrial" in the context of criminal courts in
England but haven't found it except in media reports. There are examples
of "the judge discharged the jury". That would automatically bring the
trial to an end without reaching a verdict.
--
Peter Duncanson, UK
(in alt.usage.english)
wrote:
>It appears that Bill Cosby's trial has ended with a hung jury, which
>has been reported as a "mistrial".
>
>This caught my eye, as I thought a mistrial is when something legal
>or technical happens - things like jury-nobbling, the death of a
>critical witness, or one of the main lawyers.
>
>Looking it up, the "hung jury" sense of the word is marked in at
>least one dictionary as "US" (which might explain why it seemed odd
>to me), but I've not been able to determine if that usage appears
>elsewhere, and I've just not noticed it.
>
>So: exclusively AmEng, or found elsewhere?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trial#Mistrials
A judge may declare a mistrial due to:
The court determining that it lacks jurisdiction over a case.
Evidence being admitted improperly.
Misconduct by a party, juror,[1] or an outside actor, if it
prevents due process.
A hung jury which cannot reach a verdict with the required
degree of unanimity. In a criminal trial, if the jury is able
to reach a verdict on some charges but not others, the
defendant may be retried on the charges that led to the
deadlock, at the discretion of the prosecution.
Disqualification of a juror after the jury is impaneled, if no
alternate juror is available and the litigants do not agree to
proceed with the remaining jurors.
Attempting to change a plea during an ongoing trial, which
normally is not allowed.[1]
A declaration of a mistrial generally means that a court must hold a
retrial on the same subject.
[1] A change of plea during a trial is permitted in my neck of the
woods. The one and only time I sat on a jury the trial was expected to
last a week or more. The first day the prosecution began the
presentation of their case, with evidence and witnesses. We came back
the next day expecting proceedings to continue, but the leading defence
lawyer announced that the accused wished to change her plea to guilty.
The judge confirmed that with the accused. We, the jury, were discharged
and the trial moved into the sentencing phase. One of the jurors went
into the public gallery to watch the rest of the proceedings. The rest
of us left, full of relief.
The relief was particularly because the case was expected to be
complicated. The charge was of "false accounting". Each juror was given
written evidence in the form of a book of documents that was 1.5 inches
thick.
I don't know what happens if the accused initially pleads "guilty" and
then wants to change that to "not guilty".
I've searched for "mistrial" in the context of criminal courts in
England but haven't found it except in media reports. There are examples
of "the judge discharged the jury". That would automatically bring the
trial to an end without reaching a verdict.
--
Peter Duncanson, UK
(in alt.usage.english)
Peter T. Daniels
Jun 17, 2017, 4:13:11 PM6/17/17
to
Mark Brader
Jun 17, 2017, 4:57:20 PM6/17/17
to
Harvey Van Sickle:
topic was raised in 2012; conveniently, all the links still work.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
David Dyer-Bennet:
>>>> where they [the jury] are unable to reach a verdict. .
"Skitt":
>>> That would result in a mistrial, and the prosecution would have the
>>> option of asking for a new trial.
Iain Archer:
>> I'm pretty sure that "mistrial" doesn't have that sense in English law.
>> I've not found any evidence to the contrary; the best I've so far found
>> in confirmation are dictionary definitions, such as this one from
>> Chambers, that include the additional sense in AmE.
>>
>> "mistrial noun, law 1 a trial not conducted properly according
>> to the law and declared invalid. 2 US an inconclusive trial."
That's interesting, because Canada tends to follow British rather than
American terminology and I was pretty sure I'd come across the #2 usage
in news reports in Canada. And I probably have -- here are three
news-media examples I was able to google up just now (in between
watching bits of the transit of Venus now in progress):
http://cnews.canoe.ca/CNEWS/Crime/2012/05/26/19803016.html
http://www.standard-freeholder.com/ArticleDisplay.aspx?e=3576141
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/story/2011/02/23/bc-vernon-teacher-sex-mistrial.html
Here's one on a criminal justice information/advocacy site:
http://www.chebucto.ns.ca/Recreation/notionalpest/mistrial.html
And look, here's one on the Parliament of Canada web site:
http://www.parl.gc.ca/About/Parliament/LegislativeSummaries/bills_ls.asp?ls=c53&source=library_prb&Parl=40&Ses=3&Language=E
But if I drill down to the actual Criminal Code and official government
web sites, I can't seem to find any examples. And at least some legal-
reference web sites provide definitions that agree with Chambers's #1
only.
I conclude that the American usage exists in Canada as in *informal*
usage, probably due to its familiarity from many American courtroom
dramas, not to mention news reports of American trials. (There might
even be some judges here who use it -- I found one or two examples
in Google search-result excerpts that seemed to be direct quotations
of judges using it -- but the news reports themselves no longer seemed
to be online, so I couldn't confirm they were Canadian.) But it seems
not to be official usage in Canada.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
--
Mark Brader "By this time I was feeling guilty. No, correction,
Toronto I was feeling that I *should* feel guilty ..."
m...@vex.net -- Jude Devereaux
My text in this article is in the public domain.
> It appears that Bill Cosby's trial has ended with a hung jury, which
> has been reported as a "mistrial".
>
> This caught my eye, as I thought a mistrial is when something legal
> or technical happens - things like jury-nobbling, the death of a
> critical witness, or one of the main lawyers.
>
> Looking it up, the "hung jury" sense of the word is marked in at
> least one dictionary as "US" (which might explain why it seemed odd
> to me), but I've not been able to determine if that usage appears
> elsewhere, and I've just not noticed it.
>
> So: exclusively AmEng, or found elsewhere?
Found to some extent in Canada. I posted the following here when the
> has been reported as a "mistrial".
>
> This caught my eye, as I thought a mistrial is when something legal
> or technical happens - things like jury-nobbling, the death of a
> critical witness, or one of the main lawyers.
>
> Looking it up, the "hung jury" sense of the word is marked in at
> least one dictionary as "US" (which might explain why it seemed odd
> to me), but I've not been able to determine if that usage appears
> elsewhere, and I've just not noticed it.
>
> So: exclusively AmEng, or found elsewhere?
topic was raised in 2012; conveniently, all the links still work.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
David Dyer-Bennet:
>>>> where they [the jury] are unable to reach a verdict. .
"Skitt":
>>> That would result in a mistrial, and the prosecution would have the
>>> option of asking for a new trial.
Iain Archer:
>> I'm pretty sure that "mistrial" doesn't have that sense in English law.
>> I've not found any evidence to the contrary; the best I've so far found
>> in confirmation are dictionary definitions, such as this one from
>> Chambers, that include the additional sense in AmE.
>>
>> "mistrial noun, law 1 a trial not conducted properly according
>> to the law and declared invalid. 2 US an inconclusive trial."
That's interesting, because Canada tends to follow British rather than
American terminology and I was pretty sure I'd come across the #2 usage
in news reports in Canada. And I probably have -- here are three
news-media examples I was able to google up just now (in between
watching bits of the transit of Venus now in progress):
http://cnews.canoe.ca/CNEWS/Crime/2012/05/26/19803016.html
http://www.standard-freeholder.com/ArticleDisplay.aspx?e=3576141
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/story/2011/02/23/bc-vernon-teacher-sex-mistrial.html
Here's one on a criminal justice information/advocacy site:
http://www.chebucto.ns.ca/Recreation/notionalpest/mistrial.html
And look, here's one on the Parliament of Canada web site:
http://www.parl.gc.ca/About/Parliament/LegislativeSummaries/bills_ls.asp?ls=c53&source=library_prb&Parl=40&Ses=3&Language=E
But if I drill down to the actual Criminal Code and official government
web sites, I can't seem to find any examples. And at least some legal-
reference web sites provide definitions that agree with Chambers's #1
only.
I conclude that the American usage exists in Canada as in *informal*
usage, probably due to its familiarity from many American courtroom
dramas, not to mention news reports of American trials. (There might
even be some judges here who use it -- I found one or two examples
in Google search-result excerpts that seemed to be direct quotations
of judges using it -- but the news reports themselves no longer seemed
to be online, so I couldn't confirm they were Canadian.) But it seems
not to be official usage in Canada.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
--
Mark Brader "By this time I was feeling guilty. No, correction,
Toronto I was feeling that I *should* feel guilty ..."
m...@vex.net -- Jude Devereaux
My text in this article is in the public domain.
Richard Tobin
Jun 17, 2017, 5:05:03 PM6/17/17
to
In article <db87187b-3167-49a8...@googlegroups.com>,
but the jury had differing opinions.
-- Richard
Peter T. Daniels <gram...@verizon.net> wrote:
>> I would certainly interpret it the way you do: the trial had to be
>> aborted because of some technical fault, and a new trial had to be
>> scheduled with a new jury and probably a different judge.
>Why shouldn't a hung jury count among all the other technical faults?
Because it isn't a technical fault? Everything was done correctly,
>> I would certainly interpret it the way you do: the trial had to be
>> aborted because of some technical fault, and a new trial had to be
>> scheduled with a new jury and probably a different judge.
>Why shouldn't a hung jury count among all the other technical faults?
but the jury had differing opinions.
-- Richard
Tak To
Jun 17, 2017, 5:27:54 PM6/17/17
to
or an unusual/unexpected application. Juries hang all the
time. It is to be expected.
Cf "technical foul" in US basketball, which means a foul
that does not involve physical contact between players
of opposing teams.
--
Tak
----------------------------------------------------------------+-----
Tak To ta...@alum.mit.eduxx
--------------------------------------------------------------------^^
[taode takto ~{LU5B~}] NB: trim the xx to get my real email addr
Peter T. Daniels
Jun 17, 2017, 11:11:57 PM6/17/17
to
On Saturday, June 17, 2017 at 5:27:54 PM UTC-4, Tak To wrote:
> On 6/17/2017 4:13 PM, Peter T. Daniels wrote:
> > On Saturday, June 17, 2017 at 12:48:11 PM UTC-4, Peter Moylan wrote:
> >> On 18/06/17 02:00, HVS wrote:
> >>> It appears that Bill Cosby's trial has ended with a hung jury, which has
> >>> been reported as a "mistrial".
> >>> This caught my eye, as I thought a mistrial is when something legal or
> >>> technical happens - things like jury-nobbling, the death of a critical
> >>> witness, or one of the main lawyers.
> >>> Looking it up, the "hung jury" sense of the word is marked in at least
> >>> one dictionary as "US" (which might explain why it seemed odd to me),
> >>> but I've not been able to determine if that usage appears elsewhere, and
> >>> I've just not noticed it.
> >>> So: exclusively AmEng, or found elsewhere?
> >> I would certainly interpret it the way you do: the trial had to be
> >> aborted because of some technical fault, and a new trial had to be
> >> scheduled with a new jury and probably a different judge.
> > Why shouldn't a hung jury count among all the other technical faults?
>
> Because "technical" typically implies a peripheral rule,
> or an unusual/unexpected application. Juries hang all the
> time.
Do you have some statistics on that?
> On 6/17/2017 4:13 PM, Peter T. Daniels wrote:
> > On Saturday, June 17, 2017 at 12:48:11 PM UTC-4, Peter Moylan wrote:
> >> On 18/06/17 02:00, HVS wrote:
> >>> It appears that Bill Cosby's trial has ended with a hung jury, which has
> >>> been reported as a "mistrial".
> >>> This caught my eye, as I thought a mistrial is when something legal or
> >>> technical happens - things like jury-nobbling, the death of a critical
> >>> witness, or one of the main lawyers.
> >>> Looking it up, the "hung jury" sense of the word is marked in at least
> >>> one dictionary as "US" (which might explain why it seemed odd to me),
> >>> but I've not been able to determine if that usage appears elsewhere, and
> >>> I've just not noticed it.
> >>> So: exclusively AmEng, or found elsewhere?
> >> I would certainly interpret it the way you do: the trial had to be
> >> aborted because of some technical fault, and a new trial had to be
> >> scheduled with a new jury and probably a different judge.
> > Why shouldn't a hung jury count among all the other technical faults?
>
> Because "technical" typically implies a peripheral rule,
> or an unusual/unexpected application. Juries hang all the
> time.
> It is to be expected.
Ordinarily if a convincing case can't be made, prosecution isn't attempted.
The vast majority of cases are pled out.
> Cf "technical foul" in US basketball, which means a foul
> that does not involve physical contact between players
> of opposing teams.
the Omrud
Jun 18, 2017, 8:22:57 AM6/18/17
to
On 17/06/2017 17:16, Athel Cornish-Bowden wrote:
> On 2017-06-17 16:00:44 +0000, HVS said:
>
>> It appears that Bill Cosby's trial has ended with a hung jury, which
>> has been reported as a "mistrial".
>> This caught my eye, as I thought a mistrial is when something legal or
>> technical happens - things like jury-nobbling, the death of a critical
>> witness, or one of the main lawyers.
>> Looking it up, the "hung jury" sense of the word is marked in at least
>> one dictionary as "US" (which might explain why it seemed odd to me),
>> but I've not been able to determine if that usage appears elsewhere,
>> and I've just not noticed it.
>> So: exclusively AmEng, or found elsewhere?
>
> It's a bit of a misle as well. Each time I see it I try to analyse it as
> ['mɪstrɪəl].
Me too. Even now, with the word being repeated in the press, I'm still
> On 2017-06-17 16:00:44 +0000, HVS said:
>
>> It appears that Bill Cosby's trial has ended with a hung jury, which
>> has been reported as a "mistrial".
>> This caught my eye, as I thought a mistrial is when something legal or
>> technical happens - things like jury-nobbling, the death of a critical
>> witness, or one of the main lawyers.
>> Looking it up, the "hung jury" sense of the word is marked in at least
>> one dictionary as "US" (which might explain why it seemed odd to me),
>> but I've not been able to determine if that usage appears elsewhere,
>> and I've just not noticed it.
>> So: exclusively AmEng, or found elsewhere?
>
> It's a bit of a misle as well. Each time I see it I try to analyse it as
> ['mɪstrɪəl].
not getting it right.
> We were supposed to have a Mistral today, but it hasn't
> arrived. Maybe tomorrow.
--
David
Peter T. Daniels
Jun 18, 2017, 9:39:59 AM6/18/17
to
the only other victim who was allowed to testify about "prior bad acts," mentioned that
Pennsylvania law prohibits revealing the nature of a jury deadlock, so officially
we'll never know exactly what went down.
Tak To
Jun 18, 2017, 2:13:02 PM6/18/17
to
On 6/17/2017 11:11 PM, Peter T. Daniels wrote:
> On Saturday, June 17, 2017 at 5:27:54 PM UTC-4, Tak To wrote:
>> On 6/17/2017 4:13 PM, Peter T. Daniels wrote:
>>> On Saturday, June 17, 2017 at 12:48:11 PM UTC-4, Peter Moylan wrote:
>>>> On 18/06/17 02:00, HVS wrote:
>
>>>>> It appears that Bill Cosby's trial has ended with a hung jury, which has
>>>>> been reported as a "mistrial".
>>>>> This caught my eye, as I thought a mistrial is when something legal or
>>>>> technical happens - things like jury-nobbling, the death of a critical
>>>>> witness, or one of the main lawyers.
>>>>> Looking it up, the "hung jury" sense of the word is marked in at least
>>>>> one dictionary as "US" (which might explain why it seemed odd to me),
>>>>> but I've not been able to determine if that usage appears elsewhere, and
>>>>> I've just not noticed it.
>>>>> So: exclusively AmEng, or found elsewhere?
>>>> I would certainly interpret it the way you do: the trial had to be
>>>> aborted because of some technical fault, and a new trial had to be
>>>> scheduled with a new jury and probably a different judge.
>>> Why shouldn't a hung jury count among all the other technical faults?
>>
>> Because "technical" typically implies a peripheral rule,
>> or an unusual/unexpected application. Juries hang all the
>> time.
>
> Do you have some statistics on that?
See here, for example
> On Saturday, June 17, 2017 at 5:27:54 PM UTC-4, Tak To wrote:
>> On 6/17/2017 4:13 PM, Peter T. Daniels wrote:
>>> On Saturday, June 17, 2017 at 12:48:11 PM UTC-4, Peter Moylan wrote:
>>>> On 18/06/17 02:00, HVS wrote:
>
>>>>> It appears that Bill Cosby's trial has ended with a hung jury, which has
>>>>> been reported as a "mistrial".
>>>>> This caught my eye, as I thought a mistrial is when something legal or
>>>>> technical happens - things like jury-nobbling, the death of a critical
>>>>> witness, or one of the main lawyers.
>>>>> Looking it up, the "hung jury" sense of the word is marked in at least
>>>>> one dictionary as "US" (which might explain why it seemed odd to me),
>>>>> but I've not been able to determine if that usage appears elsewhere, and
>>>>> I've just not noticed it.
>>>>> So: exclusively AmEng, or found elsewhere?
>>>> I would certainly interpret it the way you do: the trial had to be
>>>> aborted because of some technical fault, and a new trial had to be
>>>> scheduled with a new jury and probably a different judge.
>>> Why shouldn't a hung jury count among all the other technical faults?
>>
>> Because "technical" typically implies a peripheral rule,
>> or an unusual/unexpected application. Juries hang all the
>> time.
>
> Do you have some statistics on that?
http://www.ncsc-jurystudies.org/~/media/Microsites/Files/CJS/What%20We%20Do/caseload%20highlights%20hung%20juries.ashx
Cases of hung juries outnumber other mistrials by 3 to 2.
>> It is to be expected.
>
> No, it really isn't.
>
> Ordinarily if a convincing case can't be made, prosecution isn't attempted.
> The vast majority of cases are pled out.
mistrials.
>> Cf "technical foul" in US basketball, which means a foul
>> that does not involve physical contact between players
>> of opposing teams.
>
> And a TKO doesn't involve physical contact between boxers?
all sports?
Peter T. Daniels
Jun 18, 2017, 3:14:22 PM6/18/17
to
The relevant statistic is hung juries vs. jury verdicts.
> >> It is to be expected.
> > No, it really isn't.
> > Ordinarily if a convincing case can't be made, prosecution isn't attempted.
> > The vast majority of cases are pled out.
>
> Irrelevant. I was talking about cases that were declared
> mistrials.
> >> Cf "technical foul" in US basketball, which means a foul
> >> that does not involve physical contact between players
> >> of opposing teams.
> > And a TKO doesn't involve physical contact between boxers?
>
> Who said anything about "technical" meaning "non-contact" in
> all sports?
Richard Bollard
Jun 26, 2017, 8:29:00 PM6/26/17
to
randomly-selected citizens should be able to judge a case by the
standards that they hold in common, that is, their common sense if you
like. If they can't find common ground then the process has broken,
hence a mistrial.
This has all been distorted by removing the random factor to a large
degree and also by the desire to find out The Truth. A jury was not
meant to find The Truth but to give society's commonly-held opinion.
So a jury trial could well deliver completely different verdicts at
different times in history.
--
Richard Bollard
Canberra Australia
To email, I'm at AMT not spAMT.
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