Anhedonia

[David Kleinecke]

Anhedonia is a new word to me. The article I found about it
says:

People with musical anhedonia lack the typical emotional
responses that most people show when listening to Beyoncé
or The Beatles (or any other music, for that matter).

The article says it is rare - but I wonder.

I suspect I am relatively anhedonic - I don't have emotional
responses to music - not Beyoncé, The Beatles, Beethoven or
even Bach. I like rhythm and cheery tunes (and deplore almost
all contemporary music). I like old sentimental stuff (Just
Before the Battle, Mother and that ilk). But "emotional" I
don't get.

Maybe I don't understand the article's use of emotional.

[Harvey]

On Fri, 6 Jan 2017 12:05:12 -0800 (PST), David Kleinecke
<dklei...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Anhedonia is a new word to me. The article I found about it
> says:

> People with musical anhedonia lack the typical emotional
> responses that most people show when listening to Beyoncé
> or The Beatles (or any other music, for that matter).

> The article says it is rare - but I wonder.

I read some years ago that "Anhedonia" was Woody Allen's first choice
for the title of the movie "Annie Hall" , but that the studio felt
the reference was too obscure.

> I suspect I am relatively anhedonic - I don't have emotional
> responses to music - not Beyoncé, The Beatles, Beethoven or
> even Bach. I like rhythm and cheery tunes (and deplore almost
> all contemporary music). I like old sentimental stuff (Just
> Before the Battle, Mother and that ilk). But "emotional" I
> don't get.


> Maybe I don't understand the article's use of emotional.

--
Cheers, Harvey
CanE (30 years) & BrE (34 years), indiscriminately mixed

[Horace LaBadie]

In article <almarsoft.3966...@news.albasani.net>,

Harvey <use...@whhvs.co.uk> wrote:

> On Fri, 6 Jan 2017 12:05:12 -0800 (PST), David Kleinecke
> <dklei...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Anhedonia is a new word to me. The article I found about it
> > says:
>
> > People with musical anhedonia lack the typical emotional
> > responses that most people show when listening to Beyoncé
> > or The Beatles (or any other music, for that matter).
>
> > The article says it is rare - but I wonder.
>
> I read some years ago that "Anhedonia" was Woody Allen's first choice
> for the title of the movie "Annie Hall" , but that the studio felt
> the reference was too obscure.

I'm not sure how I feel about that.

[Horace LaBadie]

In article <715449c9-722e-4a47...@googlegroups.com>,

David Kleinecke <dklei...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Anhedonia is a new word to me. The article I found about it
> says:
>
> People with musical anhedonia lack the typical emotional
> responses that most people show when listening to Beyoncé
> or The Beatles (or any other music, for that matter).
>
> The article says it is rare - but I wonder.

Evidently, it is the opposite of synhedonia, which is also a thing.

[Jerry Friedman]

On 1/6/17 1:05 PM, David Kleinecke wrote:
> Anhedonia is a new word to me. The article I found about it
> says:
>
> People with musical anhedonia lack the typical emotional
> responses that most people show when listening to Beyoncé
> or The Beatles (or any other music, for that matter).

That's musical anhedonia. Anhedonia in general is an incapacity for
pleasure.

The sentence is poorly written. Pleasure is not the typical response to
the Beatles or Beyoncé--tastes vary--and the sentence seems to suggest
that people have typical emotional responses to /all/ music.

> The article says it is rare - but I wonder.
>
> I suspect I am relatively anhedonic - I don't have emotional
> responses to music - not Beyoncé, The Beatles, Beethoven or
> even Bach. I like rhythm and cheery tunes (and deplore almost
> all contemporary music). I like old sentimental stuff (Just
> Before the Battle, Mother and that ilk). But "emotional" I
> don't get.
>
> Maybe I don't understand the article's use of emotional.

It should say "People with musical anhedonia don't enjoy any kind of music."

--
Jerry Friedman

[Robert Bannister]

Perhaps I am that way too. I enjoy playing or singing music, but I don't
like listening to it for more than a few minutes, and those people who
can only work to a background of blaring sound completely baffle me.

--
Robert B. born England a long time ago;
Western Australia since 1972

[Richard Yates]

On Fri, 6 Jan 2017 12:05:12 -0800 (PST), David Kleinecke
<dklei...@gmail.com> wrote:

>Anhedonia is a new word to me. The article I found about it
>says:
>
> People with musical anhedonia lack the typical emotional
> responses that most people show when listening to Beyoncé
> or The Beatles (or any other music, for that matter).

That is probably right. (I think) you were one who heard/felt no
differences in the variety of harmonic cadences I put online a while
ago (http://www.yatesguitar.com/misc/cadences.mp3).

>
>The article says it is rare - but I wonder.
>
>I suspect I am relatively anhedonic - I don't have emotional
>responses to music - not Beyoncé, The Beatles, Beethoven or
>even Bach. I like rhythm and cheery tunes (and deplore almost
>all contemporary music). I like old sentimental stuff (Just
>Before the Battle, Mother and that ilk). But "emotional" I
>don't get.
>
>Maybe I don't understand the article's use of emotional.

The clip I posted has four cadences of four chords each all cadences
using the same rhythm. Emotional labels that might be attached to each
of them (this is very, very simplistic) are:

1. Satisfying. Complete. Final.
2. Slight surprise at the final chord and expectation of continuation.
It is called a "false cadence" and ends on the submediant rather than
the tonic.
3. More surprise or even disorientation. It ends on a chord more
distantly related to the first three and is not at all expected.
4. Sad, depressed, resigned - it is a cadence in a minor key.

[David Kleinecke]

I wondered whether any one remembered that exchange. I admit
to being completely baffled by the idea that a cadence could be
"sad, depressed, resigned".

[Peter Moylan]

You must feel some pleasure when listening to the music that you like,
or there would be no point in listening to it. Maybe you have milder
reactions than the people who can be moved to tears by some music, but
you don't seem to be completely unmoved.

--
Peter Moylan http://www.pmoylan.org
Newcastle, NSW, Australia

[David Kleinecke]

I get pleasure - I don't get emotion. That's why I
suggested my usage of "emotion" may be more restrictive
than other people's. Pleasure is not an emotion to my
way of thinking. Music I don't like doesn't anger me or
otherwise bother me - I just avoid it or tune it out if
I must.

[Peter T. Daniels]

On Friday, January 6, 2017 at 9:27:33 PM UTC-5, Richard Yates wrote:

> The clip I posted has four cadences of four chords each all cadences
> using the same rhythm. Emotional labels that might be attached to each
> of them (this is very, very simplistic) are:
>
> 1. Satisfying. Complete. Final.
> 2. Slight surprise at the final chord and expectation of continuation.
> It is called a "false cadence" and ends on the submediant rather than
> the tonic.

Best "deceptive cadence" in all music: in the Brahms Piano Quintet, last movement.

> 3. More surprise or even disorientation. It ends on a chord more
> distantly related to the first three and is not at all expected.
> 4. Sad, depressed, resigned - it is a cadence in a minor key.

That doesn't seem to allow for a sudden major at the end of a long minor
stretch -- not merely the cliche'd Picardy Third, but e.g. the end of the
repeated chorale in War Requiem.

[Cheryl]

I like listening to music, especially when I am doing somewhat boring
and repetitive work. I very often play it at work when I am at the
compute, through earphones to protect my co-workers from my choices
which may not be theirs. I like listening to music at concerts. I like
singing (although I'm not particularly good) but I can't remember enough
of my long-ago piano lessons to know if I like playing.

I do have an emotional reaction to some music at some times. At other
times, I just use it as a pleasant background, and notice no emotional
component in my listening. And at yet other times, my emotional reaction
is extremely negative. I suppose most people have that kind of reaction
sometimes. I like a variety of music, but really don't like most popular
music since about 1970. Some of it grates on me more than others, but I
haven't been interested enough to identify the exact music genres that
do so.

--
Cheryl

[Don Phillipson]

"David Kleinecke" <dklei...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:715449c9-722e-4a47...@googlegroups.com...

> Anhedonia is a new word to me. The article I found about it
> says:
>
> People with musical anhedonia lack the typical emotional
> responses that most people show when listening to Beyoncé
> or The Beatles (or any other music, for that matter).
>
> The article says it is rare - but I wonder.

Beware: anhedonia (from Greek) simply means what the
Latins called accidie or melancholia (cf. Wikipedia) i.e.
inabilit to enjoy anything -- not just music. This is nowadays
usually called depression.

(Musical anhedonia may be an invention of that particular
author. If someone cannot enjoy music and cannot enjoy
anything else, we would call them melancholic or depressed.
If there are people who enjoy things normally, with the unique
exception of music, I see no reason to call them "musically
anhedonic" let alone presuppose they have a disorder called
anhedonia.)
--
Don Phillipson
Carlsbad Springs
(Ottawa, Canada)

[Don Phillipson]

"David Kleinecke" <dklei...@gmail.com> wrote in message

news:7c03c135-7ec7-4d2f...@googlegroups.com...

> I get pleasure - I don't get emotion. That's why I
> suggested my usage of "emotion" may be more restrictive
> than other people's. Pleasure is not an emotion to my

> way of thinking. . . .

This creates difficulties in dialogue, so far as many ancient
and modern people think pleasure an important emotion.

[David Kleinecke]

On Saturday, January 7, 2017 at 6:10:53 AM UTC-8, Don Phillipson wrote:
> "David Kleinecke" <dklei...@gmail.com> wrote in message
> news:7c03c135-7ec7-4d2f...@googlegroups.com...
>
> > I get pleasure - I don't get emotion. That's why I
> > suggested my usage of "emotion" may be more restrictive
> > than other people's. Pleasure is not an emotion to my
> > way of thinking. . . .
>
> This creates difficulties in dialogue, so far as many ancient
> and modern people think pleasure an important emotion.

To me there is a pleasure-pain axis and pain is not, to me
and I think most other people, an emotion. As I see it I
operate normally at about 90% of the way toward pleasure. I
get to 100% at something good and I try my damnedest to stay
way from the pain end of the axis. I see emotions as what
makes one do irrational things. Irrational things are not
always bad - more like half and half - for example, a rational
humanity would have stop reproducing a long time ago. And
all religious is emotionally based.

[Cheryl]

Pleasure and pain both make people do irrational things. Addiction is
rooted in pleasure, and sometimes in the avoidance of pain, and pain,
especially chronic pain, can alter the sufferer's mental state
considerably, sometimes right into clinical depression which in turn
affects rational thought.

And I don't really see why stopping reproduction could be seen as a
rational choice - not for everyone, certainly. Not unless having humans
on the planet at all is considered undesirable, and I think some people
believe that. But many people find that reproduction produces great
pleasure, and people who never reproduce gain pleasure from engaging
with the people others have produced, and depend on them to provide
necessary services.

--
Cheryl

[Robert Bannister]

I have tunes going through my head all the time. Often I can't say what
they are. To my horror, I find a goodly number are pop tunes from the
30s or 40s that I must have picked up from the radio when I was quite
small. All my life, I have been told off for whistling or humming, but
often when someone asks me "What was the tune you were whistling?" I am
baffled as I didn't realise I was whistling.

--
Robert B.
You may not be an angel, for angels are so few...

[Quinn C]

* Richard Yates:

I find it likely that most of what you describe in the above is
culturally learned, though.

--
If you kill one person, you go to jail; if you kill 20, you go
to an institution for the insane; if you kill 20,000, you get
political asylum. -- Reed Brody, special counsel
for prosecutions at Human Rights Watch

[Richard Yates]

That may be, but it is pervasive in Kleinecke's culture, and has been
all his life.

[Quinn C]

* Richard Yates:

So he's unlikely to learn any other associations, but I wonder,
maybe people somehow can just not learn them? E.g. if they rarely
ever share musical experiences with others, talk about it etc.

--
ASCII to ASCII, DOS to DOS

[Whiskers]

On 2017-01-08, Robert Bannister <rob...@clubtelco.com> wrote:

[...]

> I have tunes going through my head all the time. Often I can't say what
> they are. To my horror, I find a goodly number are pop tunes from the
> 30s or 40s that I must have picked up from the radio when I was quite
> small. All my life, I have been told off for whistling or humming, but
> often when someone asks me "What was the tune you were whistling?" I am
> baffled as I didn't realise I was whistling.

I too whistle a lot, usually when I'm alone.

--
-- ^^^^^^^^^^
-- Whiskers
-- ~~~~~~~~~~

[David Kleinecke]

Actually you don't know anything about my culture. I grant you
I have not changed all my life.

My formative years were spent in a rural situation or small towns.
The professional music I was exposed to was records and radio - I
saw very few movies. There were pianos around and people who played
them. The church had an old foot pedal organ that nobody knew how
to play. People did sing songs. I didn't hear any classical music
until I was a teen-ager. Or any pre-classical until I was in
college.

[Whiskers]

I'm pretty sure that those are learned, culturally influenced,
responses. People raised outside the 'European Classical' musical
tradition can experience similar responses to quite different sound
combinations, if audience responses at concerts are any guide. People
who 'rarely ... share musical experiences ...' simply have no cultural
references to guide their response.

[Whiskers]

On 2017-01-07, Don Phillipson <e9...@SPAMBLOCK.ncf.ca> wrote:
> "David Kleinecke" <dklei...@gmail.com> wrote in message
> news:7c03c135-7ec7-4d2f...@googlegroups.com...
>
>> I get pleasure - I don't get emotion. That's why I
>> suggested my usage of "emotion" may be more restrictive
>> than other people's. Pleasure is not an emotion to my
>> way of thinking. . . .
>
> This creates difficulties in dialogue, so far as many ancient
> and modern people think pleasure an important emotion.

Indeed, the main driving force in life. There's an entire nation out
there somewhere based on (inter alia) 'the pursuit of happiness', I
think.

[Whiskers]

I wouldn't put pain and pleasure as opposites on the same axis anyway;
pain can be pleasurable, and some pleasures can be painful. Anyone else
like chilli? Or a nice hot cuppa tea? Some people seem to like riding
on 'Roller-coasters'. I do recognise gradients or spectra of pain and
of pleasure, of course.

[Whiskers]

On 2017-01-07, Don Phillipson <e9...@SPAMBLOCK.ncf.ca> wrote:

That was my first reaction too. I encountered the term 'anhedonia' as a
symptom of 'Clinical Depression', and as an experience. Eventually it
passed, for which I am emotional (pleased happy glad relieved joyful
sorry miserable sad regretful guilty ...).

[Peter T. Daniels]

On Monday, January 9, 2017 at 12:41:27 PM UTC-5, Whiskers Catwheezel wrote:

> Indeed, the main driving force in life. There's an entire nation out
> there somewhere based on (inter alia) 'the pursuit of happiness', I
> think.

Some spoilsport somewhere recently claimed that "happiness" didn't mean to
Jefferson in 1776 what it means to us today.

[Quinn C]

* Whiskers:

"Pleasure" and "pain" may not be the optimal words for it, but I
think I recognize the distinction that David wants to make. I
would call the scale he mentions as "mood". This doesn't measure
specific emotions, although having certain emotions will often be
the reason for mood changes. David may be aware of his mood, but
not so much of the more specific underlying emotions. It's not
unusual, especially with men.

--
The country has its quota of fools and windbags; such people are
most prominent in politics, where their inherent weaknesses seem
less glaring and attract less ridicule than they would in other
walks of life. -- Robert Bothwell et.al.: Canada since 1945

[Whiskers]

A few decades ago, a TV advert would have had us believe that 'happiness
is a cigar ...'.

[Peter Moylan]

Happiness originally just meant luck. It wasn't an emotion, although it
might produce an emotion (blitheness) if happenstance gave you a good
outcome.

On that reasoning, "the pursuit of happiness" might mean buying lottery
tickets.

[Robert Bannister]

So you've met Madame Lash too.

[Whiskers]

On 2017-01-10, Robert Bannister <rob...@clubtelco.com> wrote:
> On 10/1/17 1:48 am, Whiskers wrote:
>> On 2017-01-07, Cheryl <cper...@mun.ca> wrote:
>>> On 2017-01-07 2:24 PM, David Kleinecke wrote:
>>>> On Saturday, January 7, 2017 at 6:10:53 AM UTC-8, Don Phillipson wrote:
>>>>> "David Kleinecke" <dklei...@gmail.com> wrote in message
>>>>> news:7c03c135-7ec7-4d2f...@googlegroups.com...

[...]

>> I wouldn't put pain and pleasure as opposites on the same axis anyway;
>> pain can be pleasurable, and some pleasures can be painful. Anyone else
>> like chilli? Or a nice hot cuppa tea? Some people seem to like riding
>> on 'Roller-coasters'. I do recognise gradients or spectra of pain and
>> of pleasure, of course.
>>
> So you've met Madame Lash too.

<brews Earl Grey>

[Richard Tobin]

In article <slrno7afaj.t...@ID-107770.user.individual.net>,

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_Grey,_6th_Earl_Grey#Legal_issues

-- Richard

[John Varela]

On Sat, 7 Jan 2017 03:08:10 UTC, David Kleinecke
<dklei...@gmail.com> wrote:

> On Friday, January 6, 2017 at 6:27:33 PM UTC-8, Richard Yates wrote:
> > On Fri, 6 Jan 2017 12:05:12 -0800 (PST), David Kleinecke
> > <dklei...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >

> > >Anhedonia is a new word to me. The article I found about it
> > >says:
> > >
> > > People with musical anhedonia lack the typical emotional
> > > responses that most people show when listening to Beyoncé
> > > or The Beatles (or any other music, for that matter).
> >

> > That is probably right. (I think) you were one who heard/felt no
> > differences in the variety of harmonic cadences I put online a while
> > ago (http://www.yatesguitar.com/misc/cadences.mp3).
> >
> > >

> > >The article says it is rare - but I wonder.
> > >

> > >I suspect I am relatively anhedonic - I don't have emotional
> > >responses to music - not Beyoncé, The Beatles, Beethoven or
> > >even Bach. I like rhythm and cheery tunes (and deplore almost
> > >all contemporary music). I like old sentimental stuff (Just
> > >Before the Battle, Mother and that ilk). But "emotional" I
> > >don't get.
> > >
> > >Maybe I don't understand the article's use of emotional.
> >
> > The clip I posted has four cadences of four chords each all cadences
> > using the same rhythm. Emotional labels that might be attached to each
> > of them (this is very, very simplistic) are:
> >
> > 1. Satisfying. Complete. Final.
> > 2. Slight surprise at the final chord and expectation of continuation.
> > It is called a "false cadence" and ends on the submediant rather than
> > the tonic.
> > 3. More surprise or even disorientation. It ends on a chord more
> > distantly related to the first three and is not at all expected.
> > 4. Sad, depressed, resigned - it is a cadence in a minor key.
>

> I wondered whether any one remembered that exchange. I admit
> to being completely baffled by the idea that a cadence could be
> "sad, depressed, resigned".

I definitely felt that the final note of that cadence was sad. Note
*I* was not sad; the note was sad.

--
John Varela

[David Kleinecke]

Now you are projecting emotions onto musical cadences?
This as weird to me as the idea that words have colors.

[Garrett Wollman]

In article <d7ee121f-c356-4a8a...@googlegroups.com>,

I have been very strongly pushing the "Commonweal" novels [1] of the
Canadian writer Graydon Saunders for the past six months or so. The
narrators of the first two books have magic-induced synesthesia, which
results in some interesting (and at times indecipherable)
descriptions. It's obliquely referred to [2] as a common but not
universal effect.

-GAWollman

[1] An egalitarian secondary-world fantasy series, m'lud, consisting
presently of /The March North/, /A Succession of Bad Days/, and
/Safely You Deliver/, with additional titles planned.

[2] All Saunders' references are oblique. Except for the title of
book 3, which is explained in the front matter.
--
Garrett A. Wollman | What intellectual phenomenon can be older, or more oft
wol...@bimajority.org| repeated, than the story of a large research program
Opinions not shared by| that impaled itself upon a false central assumption
my employers. | accepted by all practitioners? - S.J. Gould, 1993

[John Varela]

On Wed, 11 Jan 2017 00:11:41 UTC, David Kleinecke

It's akin to saying that one read a book with an unhappy ending. The
ending is unhappy, but the reader might not be unhappy; on the other
hand, another reader might be reduced to tears.

--
John Varela

[Lewis]

In message <d7ee121f-c356-4a8a...@googlegroups.com>

Music certainly has emotion. Without emotion it's just sound.

--
'And I suppose you know what sound is made by one hand clapping, do
you?' said the holy man nastily. YES. CL. THE OTHER HAND MAKES THE AP.

[Richard Yates]

I think he was making the distinction between music having emotion and
music eliciting emotion.

[Whiskers]

Career choices can be so tricky ...

[Jerry Friedman]

Or if they can't tell a major chord from a minor chord. I can't do it
in a way that's useful in listening to music, and David apparently can't
do it at all.

> I'm pretty sure that those are learned, culturally influenced,
> responses. People raised outside the 'European Classical' musical
> tradition can experience similar responses to quite different sound
> combinations, if audience responses at concerts are any guide. People
> who 'rarely ... share musical experiences ...' simply have no cultural
> references to guide their response.

http://www.nme.com/blogs/nme-blogs/the-science-of-music-why-do-songs-in-a-minor-key-sound-sad-760215

Highlights: There are happy songs in minor keys, such as "Moondance" by
Van Morrison, and sad songs in major keys, such as "Dinner at Eight" by
Rufus Wainwright and "I Know it's Over" by the Smiths. However, those
are exceptions. However however, minor-key music seems to be getting
more popular, though people don't seem to be getting less happy.

"Moondance"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6lFxGBB4UGU

"Dinner at Eight"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jBr3Fh41H4c

"I Know it's Over"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iey0VOhxV2Y

The Mafa people of northern Cameroon were studied before they were
exposed to Western music and could distinguish between happy and sad
music, but much less well than Westerners.

(Of course, Westerners can disagree. A friend of mine thought
"Strawberry Fields Forever" was a happy song.)

By the way, people have been digitally changing music from major to
minor and vice-versa, and you can easily hear the results on line.
Somebody should try that with the Funeral March from Chopin's second
piano sonata.

--
Jerry Friedman

[Quinn C]

* Jerry Friedman:

> The Mafa people of northern Cameroon were studied before they were
> exposed to Western music and could distinguish between happy and sad
> music, but much less well than Westerners.
>
> (Of course, Westerners can disagree. A friend of mine thought
> "Strawberry Fields Forever" was a happy song.)

Pensive, but not sad, I'd say. Fortunately, I don't think about
the words much, they can heavily influence these judgments.

> By the way, people have been digitally changing music from major to
> minor and vice-versa, and you can easily hear the results on line.
> Somebody should try that with the Funeral March from Chopin's second
> piano sonata.

An old musical joke in German is to sing the beginning of Smetanas
Vltava (Die Moldau) and have the other person identify it. Then
sing the end, where the same motif appears, this time not in minor
(Moll), but major (Dur), and ask again. The correct answer is "Die
Durdau".

The names "Moll" and "Dur" stem from the Latin words for soft and
hard. Not sad and happy. "Allegro" means happy, but is also used
to just mean "fast". So the perception which aspects of music
contribute to it being happy or sad are a bit more complex than
the scale.

--
Microsoft designed a user-friendly car:
instead of the oil, alternator, gas and engine
warning lights it has just one: "General Car Fault"

[Snidely]

David Kleinecke speculated:

> Anhedonia is a new word to me. The article I found about it
> says:
>
> People with musical anhedonia lack the typical emotional
> responses that most people show when listening to Beyoncé
> or The Beatles (or any other music, for that matter).
>

> The article says it is rare - but I wonder.
>
> I suspect I am relatively anhedonic - I don't have emotional
> responses to music - not Beyoncé, The Beatles, Beethoven or
> even Bach. I like rhythm and cheery tunes (and deplore almost
> all contemporary music). I like old sentimental stuff (Just
> Before the Battle, Mother and that ilk). But "emotional" I
> don't get.
>
> Maybe I don't understand the article's use of emotional.

Anhedonia sounds like the typical one-name singer.
Pop rather than rap, I'd guess.

/dps

--
"I am not given to exaggeration, and when I say a thing I mean it"
_Roughing It_, Mark Twain

[Snidely]

David Kleinecke presented the following explanation :

> I suspect I am relatively anhedonic - I don't have emotional
> responses to music - not Beyoncé, The Beatles, Beethoven or
> even Bach.

I wouldn't be surprised

--
Trust, but verify.

[Snidely]

Snidely blurted out:

at a non-emotional response to Bach. That Bach felt deep emotion about
his music does show, but many listeners respond (favorably or
otherwise) to the mathematical side of his work, even though that was
only a tool from his point of view.

Beethoven, of course, is all about emotion ... but mostly about Grand
Emotion, describing the Struggles of Humanity. (/Rage Over A Lost
Penny/ is an exception.)

Since I don't listen to Beyoncé, I can't comment too perceptively about
her music, though I seem to remember that a video report about the
video that accompanied one of her releases hinted at Sturm Und Drang
about relationships. (Said video was set outside, on a street, perhaps
bordering a park. FWIW.)

I'm susceptible to schmaltz, mostly in films, but also in music,
especially some of the [surviving] "old songs" ... contemporaries of
/You're The Cream In My Coffee/, although that one isn't schmaltzy.
But is that a particularly emotional reaction, or just a shallow
response?

My tastes may not be typical of my age group; not a Beatles fan, but I
enjoyed covers of their songs. My collection of non-classical, built
mainly during my high school days, includes The Sandpipers, Tiajuana
Brass, Brazil 66 (77, etc), and in recent years I've been adding more
jazz (Brubeck reissues, John Pizzarelli); I'm a long time fan of Piano
Jazz, even though that was reruns even before McPartland's death.

I get involved with some music, like rocking out to the Hiawatha theme
in the /New World Symphony/, or using my forefingers as drumsticks
during /Finlandia/, but I listen mainly for enjoyment, and not for
emotional impact.

/dps

--
"I'm glad unicorns don't ever need upgrades."
"We are as up as it is possible to get graded!"
_Phoebe and Her Unicorn_, 2016.05.15

[Snidely]

Snidely suggested that ...

> Snidely blurted out:
>> David Kleinecke presented the following explanation :
>>
>>> I suspect I am relatively anhedonic - I don't have emotional
>>> responses to music - not Beyoncé, The Beatles, Beethoven or
>>> even Bach.
>>
>> I wouldn't be surprised
>
> at a non-emotional response to Bach. That Bach felt deep emotion about his
> music does show, but many listeners respond (favorably or otherwise) to the
> mathematical side of his work, even though that was only a tool from his
> point of view.

Mind was racing, not all thought transcribed ...

Bach's emotion is directed mainly at Heaven, although some of it was
directed at coffee.

> Beethoven, of course, is all about emotion ... but mostly about Grand
> Emotion, describing the Struggles of Humanity. (/Rage Over A Lost Penny/ is
> an exception.)

And of course, things went to hell in a handbasket from there, as with
Berlioz' /Symphonie Fantastique/, which is all about the ups and downs
of falling in love.

> Since I don't listen to Beyoncé, I can't comment too perceptively about her
> music, though I seem to remember that a video report about the video that
> accompanied one of her releases hinted at Sturm Und Drang about
> relationships. (Said video was set outside, on a street, perhaps bordering a
> park. FWIW.)
>
> I'm susceptible to schmaltz, mostly in films, but also in music, especially
> some of the [surviving] "old songs" ... contemporaries of /You're The Cream
> In My Coffee/, although that one isn't schmaltzy. But is that a particularly
> emotional reaction, or just a shallow response?
>
> My tastes may not be typical of my age group; not a Beatles fan, but I
> enjoyed covers of their songs. My collection of non-classical, built mainly
> during my high school days, includes The Sandpipers, Tiajuana Brass, Brazil
> 66 (77, etc), and in recent years I've been adding more jazz (Brubeck
> reissues, John Pizzarelli); I'm a long time fan of Piano Jazz, even though
> that was reruns even before McPartland's death.
>
> I get involved with some music, like rocking out to the Hiawatha theme in the
> /New World Symphony/, or using my forefingers as drumsticks during
> /Finlandia/, but I listen mainly for enjoyment, and not for emotional impact.
>
> /dps

--

"This is all very fine, but let us not be carried away be excitement,
but ask calmly, how does this person feel about in in his cooler
moments next day, with six or seven thousand feet of snow and stuff on
top of him?"
_Roughing It_, Mark Twain.

[Snidely]

I don't have anything to add just yet, but I figured, what-the-hey, why
not 4 posts in a series?

/dps

--
But happiness cannot be pursued; it must ensue. One must have a reason
to 'be happy.'"
Viktor Frankl

[Charles Bishop]

In article <mn.6d887e1184d7a8a1.127094@snitoo>,

Snidely <snide...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Snidely blurted out:
> > David Kleinecke presented the following explanation :
> >
> >> I suspect I am relatively anhedonic - I don't have emotional
> >> responses to music - not Beyoncé, The Beatles, Beethoven or
> >> even Bach.
> >

[snip-hopefully not too much]

>
> I get involved with some music, like rocking out to the Hiawatha theme
> in the /New World Symphony/, or using my forefingers as drumsticks
> during /Finlandia/, but I listen mainly for enjoyment, and not for
> emotional impact.

What about film scores that are supposed to set a mood or bring on an
emotion. Do these "reach" you as intended by the composer/director?

"director" may not be correct film school wise, but I couldn't think of
the person who would be in charge of the composer.

--
charles

[Snidely]

Charles Bishop speculated:

The Studio hires the composer, but the composer is usually working for
the director (who may have requested a specific composer, or just asked
for "one who can do X". I'm not sure if the composer looks at the
script at all; he usually is doing his work (often on a short schedule)
between early editing and the final cut, so he knows what has been
lensed and what it looks like. In many cases, when the composition is
being turned into audio tracks, the film is running on a screen behind
the musicians as the conductor (who may be the composer, as well, or it
could be Gustavo Dudamel) is leading the musicians.

Film composers are frequent visitors on KUSC: Randy Newman, Thomas
Newman, Howard Shore, Alexandre Desplat, Jóhann Jóhannsson, and some
refugee from the Boston Pops. Tributes to David Raxson and Jerry
Goldsmith have aired on the station, and the work of Elmer Berstein and
Erich Korngold is often featured and discussed.

From that exposure, I have cribbed the description above.

/dps

--
The presence of this syntax results from the fact that SQLite is really
a Tcl extension that has escaped into the wild.
<http://www.sqlite.org/lang_expr.html>

[Peter T. Daniels]

On Sunday, January 15, 2017 at 2:04:33 AM UTC-5, Snidely wrote:

> Film composers are frequent visitors on KUSC: Randy Newman, Thomas
> Newman, Howard Shore, Alexandre Desplat, Jóhann Jóhannsson, and some
> refugee from the Boston Pops.

Vice versa. He was yours before he infested the Pops. I used to think he
wrote two scores, *Jaws* and the other one, but then *Schindler's List*
was a third. (But it's been back to the other one ever since.)

> Tributes to David Raxson and Jerry
> Goldsmith have aired on the station, and the work of Elmer Berstein and
> Erich Korngold is often featured and discussed.

What's Bernard Herrmann, chopped liver?

[Snidely]

Peter T. Daniels noted that:

> On Sunday, January 15, 2017 at 2:04:33 AM UTC-5, Snidely wrote:
>
>> Film composers are frequent visitors on KUSC: Randy Newman, Thomas
>> Newman, Howard Shore, Alexandre Desplat, Jóhann Jóhannsson, and some
>> refugee from the Boston Pops.
>
> Vice versa. He was yours before he infested the Pops.

Yeah, but that's not as clever an identifying phrase. Poetic License
and all that.

> I used to think he
> wrote two scores, *Jaws* and the other one, but then *Schindler's List*
> was a third. (But it's been back to the other one ever since.)

ET 2, brute?

>> Tributes to David Raxson and Jerry
>> Goldsmith have aired on the station, and the work of Elmer Berstein and
>> Erich Korngold is often featured and discussed.
>
> What's Bernard Herrmann, chopped liver?

No, his music is often played, but he gets less discussion (except for
the statue count). The playlist includes some non-cinematic pieces.

/dps

--
Maybe C282Y is simply one of the hangers-on, a groupie following a
future guitar god of the human genome: an allele with undiscovered
virtuosity, currently soloing in obscurity in Mom's garage.
Bradley Wertheim, theAtlantic.com, Jan 10 2013

[Peter T. Daniels]

On Wednesday, January 25, 2017 at 3:26:49 AM UTC-5, Snidely wrote:
> Peter T. Daniels noted that:
> > On Sunday, January 15, 2017 at 2:04:33 AM UTC-5, Snidely wrote:
> >
> >> Film composers are frequent visitors on KUSC: Randy Newman, Thomas
> >> Newman, Howard Shore, Alexandre Desplat, Jóhann Jóhannsson, and some
> >> refugee from the Boston Pops.
> >
> > Vice versa. He was yours before he infested the Pops.
>
> Yeah, but that's not as clever an identifying phrase. Poetic License
> and all that.
>
> > I used to think he
> > wrote two scores, *Jaws* and the other one, but then *Schindler's List*
> > was a third. (But it's been back to the other one ever since.)
>
> ET 2, brute?

Would that be *Close Encounters*? I can't stand Richard Dreyfuss so when
it finally turned op on TV a few months ago and I gave it a try, I turned it
off at the first commercial break or sooner (so never heard the five-note "communication").

> >> Tributes to David Raxson and Jerry
> >> Goldsmith have aired on the station, and the work of Elmer Berstein and
> >> Erich Korngold is often featured and discussed.
> >
> > What's Bernard Herrmann, chopped liver?
>
> No, his music is often played, but he gets less discussion (except for
> the statue count). The playlist includes some non-cinematic pieces.

Speaking of which, a clue in a NYT crossword puzzle I did last night (either
a Monday or a Tuesday; I'm up to April in the 2017 Puzzle-a-Day Calendar; they
were originally published 3 1/2 years ago) is "Composer who arranged the theme
from *2001*." The
answer was DEODATO.

?

"The" theme from *2001* was by Richard Strauss, Johann Strauss, Ligeti,
Khatchaturian, and one or two others. Jerry Goldsmith wrote a score for it
but Kubrick liked the place-holding music that was supposed to be an interim
stopgap. Deodato??

[Peter Young]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eumir_Deodato

As eny fule kno, if he has access to Google.

Peter.

--
Peter Young, (BrE, RP), Consultant Anaesthetist, 1975-2004.
(US equivalent: Certified Anesthesiologist) (AUE Ir)
Cheltenham and Gloucester, UK. Now happily retired.
http://pnyoung.orpheusweb.co.uk

[Peter T. Daniels]

That's a pretty hubristic name. But part of my point was that there's no such
thing as "the theme from *2001*." Moreover, it says his arrangement of the
opening fanfare from *Also Sprach Zarathustra* is three or four times longer
than the original.

[Quinn C]

* Peter T. Daniels:

> On Wednesday, January 25, 2017 at 9:48:06 AM UTC-5, Peter Young wrote:
>> On 25 Jan 2017 "Peter T. Daniels" <gram...@verizon.net> wrote:
>
>>> Speaking of which, a clue in a NYT crossword puzzle I did last night (either
>>> a Monday or a Tuesday; I'm up to April in the 2017 Puzzle-a-Day
>>> Calendar; they
>>> were originally published 3 1/2 years ago) is "Composer who arranged
>>> the theme
>>> from *2001*." The
>>> answer was DEODATO.
>>
>>> ?
>>
>>> "The" theme from *2001* was by Richard Strauss, Johann Strauss, Ligeti,
>>> Khatchaturian, and one or two others. Jerry Goldsmith wrote a score for it
>>> but Kubrick liked the place-holding music that was supposed to be an interim
>>> stopgap. Deodato??
>>
>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eumir_Deodato
>>
>> As eny fule kno, if he has access to Google.
>
> That's a pretty hubristic name.

I can't find out what "Eumir" means. I hope you don't think it is
hubris when parents express their thankfulness to God for blessing
them with a child by naming it Deodato. Or Theodor, Nathaniel,
Amaris, Bogdan etc.

> But part of my point was that there's no such
> thing as "the theme from *2001*." Moreover, it says his arrangement of the
> opening fanfare from *Also Sprach Zarathustra* is three or four times longer
> than the original.

Of course. The opening fanfare from *Also Sprach Zarathustra* -
better known in the English-speaking world as "the theme from
2001" - is disappointingly short, and what comes after is too hard
to make into pop, so doesn't actually need a name.

--
Ice hockey is a form of disorderly conduct
in which the score is kept.
-- Doug Larson

[snide...@gmail.com]

On Wednesday, January 25, 2017 at 12:26:49 AM UTC-8, Snidely wrote:
> Peter T. Daniels noted that:
> > On Sunday, January 15, 2017 at 2:04:33 AM UTC-5, Snidely wrote:
> >
> >> Film composers are frequent visitors on KUSC: Randy Newman, Thomas
> >> Newman, Howard Shore, Alexandre Desplat, Jóhann Jóhannsson, and some
> >> refugee from the Boston Pops.
> >
> > Vice versa. He was yours before he infested the Pops.
>
> Yeah, but that's not as clever an identifying phrase. Poetic License
> and all that.
>
> > I used to think he
> > wrote two scores, *Jaws* and the other one, but then *Schindler's List*
> > was a third. (But it's been back to the other one ever since.)
>
> ET 2, brute?
>
> >> Tributes to David Raxson and Jerry
> >> Goldsmith have aired on the station, and the work of Elmer Berstein and
> >> Erich Korngold is often featured and discussed.
> >
> > What's Bernard Herrmann, chopped liver?
>
> No, his music is often played, but he gets less discussion (except for
> the statue count). The playlist includes some non-cinematic pieces.

I should have noted also Alan Mencken. He's still at eight Academy Awards,
so still trails Alfred Newman. I recently re-heard part of an interview
that occurred after _Enchanted_ was nominated, so early 2008 probably.

The station often interviews the current year's nominees for Best Score,
during the Season of Golden Runups. Podcasts of the 2016 interviews are at
<URL:http://kusc.org/series/kusc-interviews/page/2/>
(at the bottom; John Williams, 50th nomination)
and at <URL:http://kusc.org/series/kusc-interviews/page/3/>

/dps

[snide...@gmail.com]

This year's interviews began Monday with Justin Hurwitz (_LaLa Land_),
Tuesday brought in Nicholas Brtiell (_Moonlight_),
and tonight will have a mic for Thomas Newman (_Passengers_).
I'll have to update when Mica Levi (_Jackie_) and
Dustin O’Halloran and Hauschka (_Lion_) have had their turns.

The interviews will be available as podcasts in a week or two (I predict),
but you'll have to play your own copy of the soundtrack.

/dps

[snide...@gmail.com]

Dustin O'Halloran is due on Friday,
but Anne Akiko Meyers (merely Billboard's #1 Classical artist)
is taking the Thursday slot.

/dps