Google Groups no longer supports new Usenet posts or subscriptions. Historical content remains viewable.
Dismiss
Superlative
214 views
Skip to first unread message
Bebercito
Jan 24, 2022, 1:51:35 PM1/24/22
to
It's just dawned on me that "superlative" is a word that both constitutes
the signifier for the concept of "having a very high degree of something
or quality" when it's a noun, and the signified of that concept when it's
an adjective meaning "excellent" or "great", thus creating some kind of
"mirror effect" between signifier and signified.
To make my point clearer with a prosaic example, that amounts to
calling someone a "lineage insult" instead of a "bastard".
That feature seems rather unique to me, but there may be other such
words. Can you think of any?
the signifier for the concept of "having a very high degree of something
or quality" when it's a noun, and the signified of that concept when it's
an adjective meaning "excellent" or "great", thus creating some kind of
"mirror effect" between signifier and signified.
To make my point clearer with a prosaic example, that amounts to
calling someone a "lineage insult" instead of a "bastard".
That feature seems rather unique to me, but there may be other such
words. Can you think of any?
Jerry Friedman
Jan 24, 2022, 3:48:44 PM1/24/22
to
On Monday, January 24, 2022 at 11:51:35 AM UTC-7, Bebercito wrote:
> It's just dawned on me that "superlative" is a word that both constitutes
> the signifier for the concept of "having a very high degree of something
> or quality" when it's a noun, and the signified of that concept when it's
> an adjective meaning "excellent" or "great", thus creating some kind of
> "mirror effect" between signifier and signified.
>
> To make my point clearer with a prosaic example, that amounts to
> calling someone a "lineage insult" instead of a "bastard".
Reminds me of the old days when "adjectival" and "qualified" were used
> It's just dawned on me that "superlative" is a word that both constitutes
> the signifier for the concept of "having a very high degree of something
> or quality" when it's a noun, and the signified of that concept when it's
> an adjective meaning "excellent" or "great", thus creating some kind of
> "mirror effect" between signifier and signified.
>
> To make my point clearer with a prosaic example, that amounts to
> calling someone a "lineage insult" instead of a "bastard".
as euphemisms for profanity. In the '70s in the U.S. one often heard
"My expletive deleted car won't start" and the like.
What the bleep?
> That feature seems rather unique to me, but there may be other such
> words. Can you think of any?
often means "That sentence has an acceptable structure under a
certain grammatical analysis." (It can also mean something like "That
sentence is acceptable to native speakers.")
--
Jerry Friedman
Bebercito
Jan 24, 2022, 4:30:55 PM1/24/22
to
Le lundi 24 janvier 2022 à 21:48:44 UTC+1, Jerry Friedman a écrit :
> On Monday, January 24, 2022 at 11:51:35 AM UTC-7, Bebercito wrote:
> > It's just dawned on me that "superlative" is a word that both constitutes
> > the signifier for the concept of "having a very high degree of something
> > or quality" when it's a noun, and the signified of that concept when it's
> > an adjective meaning "excellent" or "great", thus creating some kind of
> > "mirror effect" between signifier and signified.
> >
> > To make my point clearer with a prosaic example, that amounts to
> > calling someone a "lineage insult" instead of a "bastard".
> Reminds me of the old days when "adjectival" and "qualified" were used
> as euphemisms for profanity. In the '70s in the U.S. one often heard
> "My expletive deleted car won't start" and the like.
That's close indeed.
> On Monday, January 24, 2022 at 11:51:35 AM UTC-7, Bebercito wrote:
> > It's just dawned on me that "superlative" is a word that both constitutes
> > the signifier for the concept of "having a very high degree of something
> > or quality" when it's a noun, and the signified of that concept when it's
> > an adjective meaning "excellent" or "great", thus creating some kind of
> > "mirror effect" between signifier and signified.
> >
> > To make my point clearer with a prosaic example, that amounts to
> > calling someone a "lineage insult" instead of a "bastard".
> Reminds me of the old days when "adjectival" and "qualified" were used
> as euphemisms for profanity. In the '70s in the U.S. one often heard
> "My expletive deleted car won't start" and the like.
>
> What the bleep?
Good one, thanks, and complex too as it involves an association
(a metonymy whereby the word signalling the profanity becomes
the profanity itself). Only, I'm not sure if "bleep" is intended as an
actual noun here or as an anomatopoeia, which could be rendered
e.g. as "What the [bleep]?".
> > That feature seems rather unique to me, but there may be other such
> > words. Can you think of any?
> "Grammatical" is somewhat similar. "That sentence is grammatical"
> often means "That sentence has an acceptable structure under a
> certain grammatical analysis."
"transferred epithet".
lar3ryca
Jan 24, 2022, 5:20:24 PM1/24/22
to
On Monday, January 24, 2022 at 3:30:55 PM UTC-6, Bebercito wrote:
> Le lundi 24 janvier 2022 à 21:48:44 UTC+1, Jerry Friedman a écrit :
> > On Monday, January 24, 2022 at 11:51:35 AM UTC-7, Bebercito wrote:
> > > It's just dawned on me that "superlative" is a word that both constitutes
> > > the signifier for the concept of "having a very high degree of something
> > > or quality" when it's a noun, and the signified of that concept when it's
> > > an adjective meaning "excellent" or "great", thus creating some kind of
> > > "mirror effect" between signifier and signified.
> > >
> > > To make my point clearer with a prosaic example, that amounts to
> > > calling someone a "lineage insult" instead of a "bastard".
> > Reminds me of the old days when "adjectival" and "qualified" were used
> > as euphemisms for profanity. In the '70s in the U.S. one often heard
> > "My expletive deleted car won't start" and the like.
> That's close indeed.
>
> >
> > What the bleep?
A 'bleep' is a short, high pitched sound. though I have often heard it
> Le lundi 24 janvier 2022 à 21:48:44 UTC+1, Jerry Friedman a écrit :
> > On Monday, January 24, 2022 at 11:51:35 AM UTC-7, Bebercito wrote:
> > > It's just dawned on me that "superlative" is a word that both constitutes
> > > the signifier for the concept of "having a very high degree of something
> > > or quality" when it's a noun, and the signified of that concept when it's
> > > an adjective meaning "excellent" or "great", thus creating some kind of
> > > "mirror effect" between signifier and signified.
> > >
> > > To make my point clearer with a prosaic example, that amounts to
> > > calling someone a "lineage insult" instead of a "bastard".
> > Reminds me of the old days when "adjectival" and "qualified" were used
> > as euphemisms for profanity. In the '70s in the U.S. one often heard
> > "My expletive deleted car won't start" and the like.
> That's close indeed.
>
> >
> > What the bleep?
in what I would consider lower than 'high pitched'. If someone swears
on an audio track, it is sometimes overridden by a 'bleep'. A textual
'bleep' is onomatopoeic for that sound. And indeed, it does become the
swear itself, and in many cases, the swear it covers is easily
recognizable by context.
Another form is 'bleeping', as in "What a bleeping idiot!".
Jerry Friedman
Jan 25, 2022, 12:08:31 AM1/25/22
to
On Monday, January 24, 2022 at 2:30:55 PM UTC-7, Bebercito wrote:
> Le lundi 24 janvier 2022 à 21:48:44 UTC+1, Jerry Friedman a écrit :
> > On Monday, January 24, 2022 at 11:51:35 AM UTC-7, Bebercito wrote:
> > > It's just dawned on me that "superlative" is a word that both constitutes
> > > the signifier for the concept of "having a very high degree of something
> > > or quality" when it's a noun, and the signified of that concept when it's
> > > an adjective meaning "excellent" or "great", thus creating some kind of
> > > "mirror effect" between signifier and signified.
> > >
> > > To make my point clearer with a prosaic example, that amounts to
> > > calling someone a "lineage insult" instead of a "bastard".
> > Reminds me of the old days when "adjectival" and "qualified" were used
> > as euphemisms for profanity. In the '70s in the U.S. one often heard
> > "My expletive deleted car won't start" and the like.
> That's close indeed.
Greetings! (Or is that more performative or something?)
> Le lundi 24 janvier 2022 à 21:48:44 UTC+1, Jerry Friedman a écrit :
> > On Monday, January 24, 2022 at 11:51:35 AM UTC-7, Bebercito wrote:
> > > It's just dawned on me that "superlative" is a word that both constitutes
> > > the signifier for the concept of "having a very high degree of something
> > > or quality" when it's a noun, and the signified of that concept when it's
> > > an adjective meaning "excellent" or "great", thus creating some kind of
> > > "mirror effect" between signifier and signified.
> > >
> > > To make my point clearer with a prosaic example, that amounts to
> > > calling someone a "lineage insult" instead of a "bastard".
> > Reminds me of the old days when "adjectival" and "qualified" were used
> > as euphemisms for profanity. In the '70s in the U.S. one often heard
> > "My expletive deleted car won't start" and the like.
> That's close indeed.
The expletive deleted car brings us to Hemingway:
"Is it true about the bridge?"
"What about the bridge?"
"That we blow up an obscene bridge and then have to obscenely well obscenity
ourselves off out of these mountains?"
Maybe even closer: "unprintable", as in
"At the meeting of the American Foundrymen's Association in Milwaukee,
different stove manufacturers exhibited war munitions their plants were
occupied in making now that stove-making is curtailed to give more resources
and getting an early victory over the unprintable Hun."
/The Metal Worker/, Oct. 25, 1918
https://books.google.com/books?id=kTXc2tgpArgC&pg=PA487
> > What the bleep?
>
> Good one, thanks, and complex too as it involves an association
> (a metonymy whereby the word signalling the profanity becomes
> the profanity itself). Only, I'm not sure if "bleep" is intended as an
> actual noun here or as an anomatopoeia, which could be rendered
> e.g. as "What the [bleep]?".
imitating the sound.
> > > That feature seems rather unique to me, but there may be other such
> > > words. Can you think of any?
> > "Grammatical" is somewhat similar. "That sentence is grammatical"
> > often means "That sentence has an acceptable structure under a
> > certain grammatical analysis."
> Maybe, but to me it's essentially an instance of hypallage or
> "transferred epithet".
Paul Carmichael
Jan 25, 2022, 9:09:27 AM1/25/22
to
El Mon, 24 Jan 2022 21:08:29 -0800, Jerry Friedman escribió:
> "At the meeting of the American Foundrymen's Association in Milwaukee,
> different stove manufacturers exhibited war munitions their plants were
> occupied in making now that stove-making is curtailed to give more
> resources and getting an early victory over the unprintable Hun."
<thread swerve>
> "At the meeting of the American Foundrymen's Association in Milwaukee,
> different stove manufacturers exhibited war munitions their plants were
> occupied in making now that stove-making is curtailed to give more
> resources and getting an early victory over the unprintable Hun."
Is that acceptable (normal) in AmE without the relative "that" after
"munitions"? I had to read it several times to understand it.
--
Paul.
https://paulc.es/elpatio
Richard Heathfield
Jan 25, 2022, 9:14:31 AM1/25/22
to
Subjects verbed objects that their plants were occupied in making.
Looks good to me, avec or sans 'that'.
--
Richard Heathfield
Email: rjh at cpax dot org dot uk
"Usenet is a strange place" - dmr 29 July 1999
Sig line 4 vacant - apply within
Athel Cornish-Bowden
Jan 25, 2022, 9:21:24 AM1/25/22
to
On 2022-01-25 14:14:26 +0000, Richard Heathfield said:
> On 25/01/2022 14:09, Paul Carmichael wrote:
>> El Mon, 24 Jan 2022 21:08:29 -0800, Jerry Friedman escribió:
>>
>>> "At the meeting of the American Foundrymen's Association in Milwaukee,
>>> different stove manufacturers exhibited war munitions their plants were
>>> occupied in making now that stove-making is curtailed to give more
>>> resources and getting an early victory over the unprintable Hun."
>>
>> <thread swerve>
>>
>> Is that acceptable (normal) in AmE without the relative "that" after
>> "munitions"? I had to read it several times to understand it.
>
> Subjects verbed objects their plants were occupied in making.
>
> Subjects verbed objects that their plants were occupied in making.
>
> Looks good to me, avec or sans 'that'.
Yes, but to me it's easier to read with the "that".
> On 25/01/2022 14:09, Paul Carmichael wrote:
>> El Mon, 24 Jan 2022 21:08:29 -0800, Jerry Friedman escribió:
>>
>>> "At the meeting of the American Foundrymen's Association in Milwaukee,
>>> different stove manufacturers exhibited war munitions their plants were
>>> occupied in making now that stove-making is curtailed to give more
>>> resources and getting an early victory over the unprintable Hun."
>>
>> <thread swerve>
>>
>> Is that acceptable (normal) in AmE without the relative "that" after
>> "munitions"? I had to read it several times to understand it.
>
> Subjects verbed objects their plants were occupied in making.
>
> Subjects verbed objects that their plants were occupied in making.
>
> Looks good to me, avec or sans 'that'.
--
Athel -- French and British, living mainly in England until 1987.
Mark Brader
Jan 25, 2022, 9:48:53 AM1/25/22
to
Jerry Friedman quoted:
> I had to read it several times to understand it.
Yes, it's a bad choice to omit it when writing such a complicated sentence.
In speech it'd be easier to follow.
--
Mark Brader "There are no prime numbers in Dream London...
Toronto Or there won't be in the future."
m...@vex.net --"Dream London", Tony Ballantyne
My text in this article is in the public domain.
>> "At the meeting of the American Foundrymen's Association in Milwaukee,
>> different stove manufacturers exhibited war munitions their plants were
>> occupied in making now that stove-making is curtailed to give more
>> resources and getting an early victory over the unprintable Hun."
Paul Carmichael asks:
>> different stove manufacturers exhibited war munitions their plants were
>> occupied in making now that stove-making is curtailed to give more
>> resources and getting an early victory over the unprintable Hun."
> Is that acceptable (normal) in AmE without the relative "that" after
> "munitions"?
Yes, it's standard.
> "munitions"?
> I had to read it several times to understand it.
In speech it'd be easier to follow.
--
Mark Brader "There are no prime numbers in Dream London...
Toronto Or there won't be in the future."
m...@vex.net --"Dream London", Tony Ballantyne
My text in this article is in the public domain.
Tak To
Jan 25, 2022, 9:52:08 AM1/25/22
to
-- what so special about it?
--
Tak
----------------------------------------------------------------+-----
Tak To ta...@alum.mit.eduxx
--------------------------------------------------------------------^^
[taode takto ~{LU5B~}] NB: trim the xx to get my real email addr
Jerry Friedman
Jan 25, 2022, 10:49:02 AM1/25/22
to
clearer. Even a comma after "in making" would help.
I had a bigger problem with "getting". I'd prefer "get".
--
Jerry Friedman
Jerry Friedman
Jan 25, 2022, 10:49:37 AM1/25/22
to
On Tuesday, January 25, 2022 at 7:52:08 AM UTC-7, Tak To wrote:
> On 1/24/2022 1:51 PM, Bebercito wrote:
> > It's just dawned on me that "superlative" is a word that both constitutes
> > the signifier for the concept of "having a very high degree of something
> > or quality" when it's a noun, and the signified of that concept when it's
> > an adjective meaning "excellent" or "great", thus creating some kind of
> > "mirror effect" between signifier and signified.
> >
> > To make my point clearer with a prosaic example, that amounts to
> > calling someone a "lineage insult" instead of a "bastard".
> >
> > That feature seems rather unique to me, but there may be other such
> > words. Can you think of any?
> A jargon term and its meaning in ordinary English are related
> -- what so special about it?
The particular kind of relation.
> On 1/24/2022 1:51 PM, Bebercito wrote:
> > It's just dawned on me that "superlative" is a word that both constitutes
> > the signifier for the concept of "having a very high degree of something
> > or quality" when it's a noun, and the signified of that concept when it's
> > an adjective meaning "excellent" or "great", thus creating some kind of
> > "mirror effect" between signifier and signified.
> >
> > To make my point clearer with a prosaic example, that amounts to
> > calling someone a "lineage insult" instead of a "bastard".
> >
> > That feature seems rather unique to me, but there may be other such
> > words. Can you think of any?
> A jargon term and its meaning in ordinary English are related
> -- what so special about it?
--
Jerry Friedman
Ken Blake
Jan 25, 2022, 11:05:11 AM1/25/22
to
"unprintable Hun." I never met a Hun who was unprintable. I would
write "[unprintable] Hun," or "[expletive deleted] Hun."
Adam Funk
Jan 25, 2022, 11:30:06 AM1/25/22
to
--
By filing this bug report, you have challenged my
my honor. Prepare to die!
---Klingon Programmer's Guide
Bebercito
Jan 25, 2022, 12:33:51 PM1/25/22
to
Le mardi 25 janvier 2022 à 06:08:31 UTC+1, Jerry Friedman a écrit :
> On Monday, January 24, 2022 at 2:30:55 PM UTC-7, Bebercito wrote:
> > Le lundi 24 janvier 2022 à 21:48:44 UTC+1, Jerry Friedman a écrit :
> > > On Monday, January 24, 2022 at 11:51:35 AM UTC-7, Bebercito wrote:
> > > > It's just dawned on me that "superlative" is a word that both constitutes
> > > > the signifier for the concept of "having a very high degree of something
> > > > or quality" when it's a noun, and the signified of that concept when it's
> > > > an adjective meaning "excellent" or "great", thus creating some kind of
> > > > "mirror effect" between signifier and signified.
> > > >
> > > > To make my point clearer with a prosaic example, that amounts to
> > > > calling someone a "lineage insult" instead of a "bastard".
>
> > > Reminds me of the old days when "adjectival" and "qualified" were used
> > > as euphemisms for profanity. In the '70s in the U.S. one often heard
> > > "My expletive deleted car won't start" and the like.
>
> > That's close indeed.
> Greetings!
Yes.
> On Monday, January 24, 2022 at 2:30:55 PM UTC-7, Bebercito wrote:
> > Le lundi 24 janvier 2022 à 21:48:44 UTC+1, Jerry Friedman a écrit :
> > > On Monday, January 24, 2022 at 11:51:35 AM UTC-7, Bebercito wrote:
> > > > It's just dawned on me that "superlative" is a word that both constitutes
> > > > the signifier for the concept of "having a very high degree of something
> > > > or quality" when it's a noun, and the signified of that concept when it's
> > > > an adjective meaning "excellent" or "great", thus creating some kind of
> > > > "mirror effect" between signifier and signified.
> > > >
> > > > To make my point clearer with a prosaic example, that amounts to
> > > > calling someone a "lineage insult" instead of a "bastard".
>
> > > Reminds me of the old days when "adjectival" and "qualified" were used
> > > as euphemisms for profanity. In the '70s in the U.S. one often heard
> > > "My expletive deleted car won't start" and the like.
>
> > That's close indeed.
> Greetings!
> (Or is that more performative or something?)
>
> The expletive deleted car brings us to Hemingway:
>
> "Is it true about the bridge?"
>
> "What about the bridge?"
>
> "That we blow up an obscene bridge and then have to obscenely well obscenity
> ourselves off out of these mountains?"
accordance with the adjectival and adverbial forms that precede.
>
> Maybe even closer: "unprintable", as in
>
> "At the meeting of the American Foundrymen's Association in Milwaukee,
> different stove manufacturers exhibited war munitions their plants were
> occupied in making now that stove-making is curtailed to give more resources
> and getting an early victory over the unprintable Hun."
>
> /The Metal Worker/, Oct. 25, 1918
>
> https://books.google.com/books?id=kTXc2tgpArgC&pg=PA487
> > > What the bleep?
> >
> > Good one, thanks, and complex too as it involves an association
> > (a metonymy whereby the word signalling the profanity becomes
> > the profanity itself). Only, I'm not sure if "bleep" is intended as an
> > actual noun here or as an anomatopoeia, which could be rendered
> > e.g. as "What the [bleep]?".
> Well, some people say "bleep" that way in conversation, without
> imitating the sound.
case.
> > > > That feature seems rather unique to me, but there may be other such
> > > > words. Can you think of any?
>
> > > "Grammatical" is somewhat similar. "That sentence is grammatical"
> > > often means "That sentence has an acceptable structure under a
> > > certain grammatical analysis."
>
> > Maybe, but to me it's essentially an instance of hypallage or
> > "transferred epithet".
> And "superlative" isn't?
the noun and the adjective "superlative". A sentence
is not said to be "grammaticality" but "grammatical".
Bebercito
Jan 25, 2022, 12:42:11 PM1/25/22
to
Le mardi 25 janvier 2022 à 15:52:08 UTC+1, Tak To a écrit :
> On 1/24/2022 1:51 PM, Bebercito wrote:
> > It's just dawned on me that "superlative" is a word that both constitutes
> > the signifier for the concept of "having a very high degree of something
> > or quality" when it's a noun, and the signified of that concept when it's
> > an adjective meaning "excellent" or "great", thus creating some kind of
> > "mirror effect" between signifier and signified.
> >
> > To make my point clearer with a prosaic example, that amounts to
> > calling someone a "lineage insult" instead of a "bastard".
> >
> > That feature seems rather unique to me, but there may be other such
> > words. Can you think of any?
> A jargon term and its meaning in ordinary English are related
> -- what so special about it?
The concept itself is substituted for an instance of the
> On 1/24/2022 1:51 PM, Bebercito wrote:
> > It's just dawned on me that "superlative" is a word that both constitutes
> > the signifier for the concept of "having a very high degree of something
> > or quality" when it's a noun, and the signified of that concept when it's
> > an adjective meaning "excellent" or "great", thus creating some kind of
> > "mirror effect" between signifier and signified.
> >
> > To make my point clearer with a prosaic example, that amounts to
> > calling someone a "lineage insult" instead of a "bastard".
> >
> > That feature seems rather unique to me, but there may be other such
> > words. Can you think of any?
> A jargon term and its meaning in ordinary English are related
> -- what so special about it?
concept, as I tried to explain (not easy, I admit). If you
think that's common, please give other instances of it.
Sam Plusnet
Jan 25, 2022, 2:45:34 PM1/25/22
to
On 24-Jan-22 20:48, Jerry Friedman wrote:
> Reminds me of the old days when "adjectival" and "qualified" were used
> as euphemisms for profanity. In the '70s in the U.S. one often heard
> "My expletive deleted car won't start" and the like.
A Nixonian monologue?
> Reminds me of the old days when "adjectival" and "qualified" were used
> as euphemisms for profanity. In the '70s in the U.S. one often heard
> "My expletive deleted car won't start" and the like.
(Not sure how we can mention "Expletive deleted" without his name
cropping up.)
--
Sam Plusnet
Jerry Friedman
Jan 25, 2022, 3:31:01 PM1/25/22
to
--
Jerry Friedman
Stoat
Jan 25, 2022, 3:49:21 PM1/25/22
to
It seems not to have occurred to them that she is Attila the Nun.
--brian
--
Wellington
New Zealand
Mack A. Damia
Jan 25, 2022, 4:50:01 PM1/25/22
to
Me: Watch your attitude, hun.
Her: I am NOT your honey!
Me: No, that's H-U-N.
lar3ryca
Jan 25, 2022, 4:55:14 PM1/25/22
to
Same middle name.
Mack A. Damia
Jan 25, 2022, 5:15:35 PM1/25/22
to
Lewis
Jan 25, 2022, 6:45:21 PM1/25/22
to
In message <pan$29fd8$1b748cdb$5412abaf$7bff...@gmail.com> Paul Carmichael <wibble...@gmail.com> wrote:
> El Mon, 24 Jan 2022 21:08:29 -0800, Jerry Friedman escribió:
>> "At the meeting of the American Foundrymen's Association in Milwaukee,
>> different stove manufacturers exhibited war munitions their plants were
>> occupied in making now that stove-making is curtailed to give more
>> resources and getting an early victory over the unprintable Hun."
> <thread swerve>
> Is that acceptable (normal) in AmE without the relative "that" after
> "munitions"?
Yes.
> El Mon, 24 Jan 2022 21:08:29 -0800, Jerry Friedman escribió:
>> "At the meeting of the American Foundrymen's Association in Milwaukee,
>> different stove manufacturers exhibited war munitions their plants were
>> occupied in making now that stove-making is curtailed to give more
>> resources and getting an early victory over the unprintable Hun."
> <thread swerve>
> Is that acceptable (normal) in AmE without the relative "that" after
> "munitions"?
> I had to read it several times to understand it.
--
"Are you pondering what I'm pondering?"
"Whuh... I think so, Brain, but... but if Charlton Heston doesn't eat
Soylent Green, what will he eat?"
Peter Moylan
Jan 25, 2022, 7:40:57 PM1/25/22
to
--
Peter Moylan Newcastle, NSW http://www.pmoylan.org
Adam Funk
Jan 26, 2022, 4:30:07 AM1/26/22
to
AIUI, women used to pick new given names when becoming nuns, although
the only Saint Attila I'm aware of is the non-canonical one mentioned
in _Monty Python and the Holy Grail_.
--
You could tell by the way that he talked, though, that he had gone to
school a long time. That was probably what was wrong with him. George
had been wise enough to get out of school as soon as possible. He
didn't want to end up like that guy. [A Conf. of Dunces]
Tak To
Jan 26, 2022, 1:40:53 PM1/26/22
to
On 1/25/2022 12:42 PM, Bebercito wrote:
> Le mardi 25 janvier 2022 à 15:52:08 UTC+1, Tak To a écrit :
>> On 1/24/2022 1:51 PM, Bebercito wrote:
>>> It's just dawned on me that "superlative" is a word that both constitutes
>>> the signifier for the concept of "having a very high degree of something
>>> or quality" when it's a noun, and the signified of that concept when it's
>>> an adjective meaning "excellent" or "great", thus creating some kind of
>>> "mirror effect" between signifier and signified.
>>>
>>> To make my point clearer with a prosaic example, that amounts to
>>> calling someone a "lineage insult" instead of a "bastard".
>>>
>>> That feature seems rather unique to me, but there may be other such
>>> words. Can you think of any?
>> A jargon term and its meaning in ordinary English are related
>> -- what so special about it?
>
> The concept itself is substituted for an instance of the
> concept, as I tried to explain (not easy, I admit). If you
> think that's common, please give other instances of it.
Following the pattern of
> Le mardi 25 janvier 2022 à 15:52:08 UTC+1, Tak To a écrit :
>> On 1/24/2022 1:51 PM, Bebercito wrote:
>>> It's just dawned on me that "superlative" is a word that both constitutes
>>> the signifier for the concept of "having a very high degree of something
>>> or quality" when it's a noun, and the signified of that concept when it's
>>> an adjective meaning "excellent" or "great", thus creating some kind of
>>> "mirror effect" between signifier and signified.
>>>
>>> To make my point clearer with a prosaic example, that amounts to
>>> calling someone a "lineage insult" instead of a "bastard".
>>>
>>> That feature seems rather unique to me, but there may be other such
>>> words. Can you think of any?
>> A jargon term and its meaning in ordinary English are related
>> -- what so special about it?
>
> The concept itself is substituted for an instance of the
> concept, as I tried to explain (not easy, I admit). If you
> think that's common, please give other instances of it.
What is the superlative [form/degree] of "superlative"?
we can have
What is the language of "language"?
What is [grammatical] number of "number"?
What is the word count in "word count"?
What is adjectival form of "adjectival"?
What is the tense of "tense"?
What is the pronunciation of "pronunciation"?
What is the spelling of "spelling"?
etc
Moving from language to philosophy and other areas
What is the meaning of "meaning"?
What is a synonym of "synonym"?
What are the questions in "Questions?"
What is the Erdos number of Erdos?
What is the octane number of [pure] octane?
etc
Perhaps you have a more restrictive pattern in mind?
Bebercito
Jan 26, 2022, 4:25:15 PM1/26/22
to
of 'What is a synonym of "synonym"?', for instance, the
right analogy is that using "superlative" as a superlative
is like saying:
"Synonym" is a synonym for "nice".
Instead of
"Kind" is a synonym for "nice".
HTH. (I'll keep it at that.)
Stoat
Jan 27, 2022, 12:09:37 AM1/27/22
to
understand the joke. She did tell one or two.
It is originally a German Order, and most of the sisters live at HQ in
Germany. Many do not have fluent English. I wonder whether the name
"Attila the Hun" is familiar to them.
In that Order, they do not select their own names, and the names they
are given are not all saint's names, nor even normal women's first names
Try Sr. Humilita, or Sr. Diadema, for example.
-brian
--
Wellington
New Zealand
Adam Funk
Jan 27, 2022, 4:15:06 AM1/27/22
to
that he's just plain "Attila" in German.
> In that Order, they do not select their own names, and the names they
> are given are not all saint's names, nor even normal women's first names
> Try Sr. Humilita, or Sr. Diadema, for example.
--
Unix is a user-friendly operating system. It's just very choosy about
its friends.
Athel Cornish-Bowden
Jan 27, 2022, 6:13:19 AM1/27/22
to
not nuns), like Purificación and even Circoncisión. (Probably a
Crucifixión or two, as well, though I haven't come across examples.)
We once knew someone called Patro, which turned out to be an
abbreviation of Patrocinio de Jesús.
Paul Carmichael
Jan 27, 2022, 8:05:34 AM1/27/22
to
El Thu, 27 Jan 2022 12:13:14 +0100, Athel Cornish-Bowden escribió:
> You can find some pretty strange names in Spain (for ordinary people,
> not nuns), like Purificación and even Circoncisión.
Yup, I know quite a few. "Inmaculada" is very popular. As is
> You can find some pretty strange names in Spain (for ordinary people,
> not nuns), like Purificación and even Circoncisión.
"Dolores" (Lola).
But most women are called María (often with a masculine second name).
--
Paul.
https://paulc.es/elpatio
Athel Cornish-Bowden
Jan 27, 2022, 9:38:32 AM1/27/22
to
On 2022-01-27 13:05:30 +0000, Paul Carmichael said:
> El Thu, 27 Jan 2022 12:13:14 +0100, Athel Cornish-Bowden escribió:
>
>> You can find some pretty strange names in Spain (for ordinary people,
>> not nuns), like Purificación and even Circoncisión.
>
> Yup, I know quite a few. "Inmaculada" is very popular.
Yes. I know an Inmaculada (Spanish, of course).
> El Thu, 27 Jan 2022 12:13:14 +0100, Athel Cornish-Bowden escribió:
>
>> You can find some pretty strange names in Spain (for ordinary people,
>> not nuns), like Purificación and even Circoncisión.
>
> Yup, I know quite a few. "Inmaculada" is very popular.
> As is
> "Dolores" (Lola).
Of all the names mentioned that's the only one with any currency in
Chile, though it's on its way out. On the other hand "Gladys" is
remarkably common -- probably more Gladyses in Chile than in Wales.
>
> But most women are called María (often with a masculine second name).
--
Quinn C
Jan 27, 2022, 10:07:34 AM1/27/22
to
* Ken Blake:
Ah, that's it! My first thought was of a specific Hun who shall not be
named. Similar to how many Americans now talk about the "former
president" or "Biden's predecessor" and the like.
--
"THIS IS IMPORTANT," one of the homunculi said to me. "THERE ARE
NO MEN AND NO WOMEN AND NOTHING ELSE."
-- Mieko Kawakami, Breast and Eggs
named. Similar to how many Americans now talk about the "former
president" or "Biden's predecessor" and the like.
--
"THIS IS IMPORTANT," one of the homunculi said to me. "THERE ARE
NO MEN AND NO WOMEN AND NOTHING ELSE."
-- Mieko Kawakami, Breast and Eggs
Bebercito
Jan 27, 2022, 11:04:57 AM1/27/22
to
Le jeudi 27 janvier 2022 à 14:05:34 UTC+1, Paul Carmichael a écrit :
> El Thu, 27 Jan 2022 12:13:14 +0100, Athel Cornish-Bowden escribió:
>
> > You can find some pretty strange names in Spain (for ordinary people,
> > not nuns), like Purificación and even Circoncisión.
> Yup, I know quite a few. "Inmaculada" is very popular.
And predictably, so is its sidekick "Concepción".
> El Thu, 27 Jan 2022 12:13:14 +0100, Athel Cornish-Bowden escribió:
>
> > You can find some pretty strange names in Spain (for ordinary people,
> > not nuns), like Purificación and even Circoncisión.
> Yup, I know quite a few. "Inmaculada" is very popular.
Jerry Friedman
Jan 27, 2022, 11:12:20 AM1/27/22
to
Swerving back, that's exactly my point. You've never seen work that
was superlative in the literal sense--something someone did that had
"most" before it or ended in "-est". But "superlative" came to be
applied to things that superlative words such as "best" applied to.
In exactly the same way, "unprintable" came to be applied to things
that unprintable words applied to. That's rare or nonexistent now,
but I think it is an example of what bebercito was looking for.
By the way, I remembered another similar example--a tennis
announcer saying the match was delayed because a player had
"gone into the euphemism".
--
Jerry Friedman
Paul Carmichael
Jan 27, 2022, 11:39:40 AM1/27/22
to
El Thu, 27 Jan 2022 08:04:54 -0800, Bebercito escribió:
> Le jeudi 27 janvier 2022 à 14:05:34 UTC+1, Paul Carmichael a écrit :
>> El Thu, 27 Jan 2022 12:13:14 +0100, Athel Cornish-Bowden escribió:
>>
>> > You can find some pretty strange names in Spain (for ordinary people,
>> > not nuns), like Purificación and even Circoncisión.
>> Yup, I know quite a few. "Inmaculada" is very popular.
>
> And predictably, so is its sidekick "Concepción".
Aka "Conchi".
> Le jeudi 27 janvier 2022 à 14:05:34 UTC+1, Paul Carmichael a écrit :
>> El Thu, 27 Jan 2022 12:13:14 +0100, Athel Cornish-Bowden escribió:
>>
>> > You can find some pretty strange names in Spain (for ordinary people,
>> > not nuns), like Purificación and even Circoncisión.
>> Yup, I know quite a few. "Inmaculada" is very popular.
>
> And predictably, so is its sidekick "Concepción".
--
Paul.
https://paulc.es/elpatio
Mack A. Damia
Jan 27, 2022, 11:42:50 AM1/27/22
to
On 27 Jan 2022 13:05:30 GMT, Paul Carmichael <wibble...@gmail.com>
wrote:
Be happy that you are not married to a woman named "Demetario" or
"Primitiva".
wrote:
"Primitiva".
Bebercito
Jan 27, 2022, 11:56:51 AM1/27/22
to
Le jeudi 27 janvier 2022 à 17:39:40 UTC+1, Paul Carmichael a écrit :
> El Thu, 27 Jan 2022 08:04:54 -0800, Bebercito escribió:
>
> > Le jeudi 27 janvier 2022 à 14:05:34 UTC+1, Paul Carmichael a écrit :
> >> El Thu, 27 Jan 2022 12:13:14 +0100, Athel Cornish-Bowden escribió:
> >>
> >> > You can find some pretty strange names in Spain (for ordinary people,
> >> > not nuns), like Purificación and even Circoncisión.
As an afterwit, wouldn't the Spanish surname "Cortado" be
> El Thu, 27 Jan 2022 08:04:54 -0800, Bebercito escribió:
>
> > Le jeudi 27 janvier 2022 à 14:05:34 UTC+1, Paul Carmichael a écrit :
> >> El Thu, 27 Jan 2022 12:13:14 +0100, Athel Cornish-Bowden escribió:
> >>
> >> > You can find some pretty strange names in Spain (for ordinary people,
> >> > not nuns), like Purificación and even Circoncisión.
fittingly associated with the latter?
> >> Yup, I know quite a few. "Inmaculada" is very popular.
> >
> > And predictably, so is its sidekick "Concepción".
> Aka "Conchi".
>
> --
> Paul.
>
> https://paulc.es/elpatio
Sam Plusnet
Jan 27, 2022, 2:07:53 PM1/27/22
to
On 27-Jan-22 14:38, Athel Cornish-Bowden wrote:
>
> Of all the names mentioned that's the only one with any currency in
> Chile, though it's on its way out. On the other hand "Gladys" is
> remarkably common -- probably more Gladyses in Chile than in Wales.
Almost certainly.
>
> Of all the names mentioned that's the only one with any currency in
> Chile, though it's on its way out. On the other hand "Gladys" is
> remarkably common -- probably more Gladyses in Chile than in Wales.
Any Gladyses to be found are probably advanced in years.
Also, a UK based baby name popularity website claimed that Gladys
ranked: 5493 out of 5493.
--
Sam Plusnet
Athel Cornish-Bowden
Jan 27, 2022, 2:34:18 PM1/27/22
to
well aware that the approved form in Wales is Gwladys, but in England
(and Chile), it's Gladys.
Athel Cornish-Bowden
Jan 27, 2022, 2:44:16 PM1/27/22
to
On 2022-01-24 18:51:33 +0000, Bebercito said:
> It's just dawned on me that "superlative" is a word that both constitutes
> the signifier for the concept of "having a very high degree of something
> or quality" when it's a noun, and the signified of that concept when it's
> an adjective meaning "excellent" or "great", thus creating some kind of
> "mirror effect" between signifier and signified.
>
> To make my point clearer with a prosaic example, that amounts to
> calling someone a "lineage insult" instead of a "bastard".
>
> That feature seems rather unique to me, but there may be other such
> words. Can you think of any?
Nothing to do with this thread, but I can't find the one were it
> It's just dawned on me that "superlative" is a word that both constitutes
> the signifier for the concept of "having a very high degree of something
> or quality" when it's a noun, and the signified of that concept when it's
> an adjective meaning "excellent" or "great", thus creating some kind of
> "mirror effect" between signifier and signified.
>
> To make my point clearer with a prosaic example, that amounts to
> calling someone a "lineage insult" instead of a "bastard".
>
> That feature seems rather unique to me, but there may be other such
> words. Can you think of any?
belongs, but you were correct that the expression is "Comment dirai-je
?", not, as I put it, "Que dirai-je ?". Since this came up I've been
listening for it and tonight a woman selling her house in Viager said
"Comment dirai-je ?".
That puts another question in my mind: is Viager purely French, or does
the system exist elsewhere? (There are lots of pages on the web that
explain it better than I could do.)
Bebercito
Jan 27, 2022, 3:40:32 PM1/27/22
to
Le jeudi 27 janvier 2022 à 20:44:16 UTC+1, Athel Cornish-Bowden a écrit :
> On 2022-01-24 18:51:33 +0000, Bebercito said:
>
> > It's just dawned on me that "superlative" is a word that both constitutes
> > the signifier for the concept of "having a very high degree of something
> > or quality" when it's a noun, and the signified of that concept when it's
> > an adjective meaning "excellent" or "great", thus creating some kind of
> > "mirror effect" between signifier and signified.
> >
> > To make my point clearer with a prosaic example, that amounts to
> > calling someone a "lineage insult" instead of a "bastard".
> >
> > That feature seems rather unique to me, but there may be other such
> > words. Can you think of any?
> Nothing to do with this thread, but I can't find the one were it
> belongs, but you were correct that the expression is "Comment dirai-je
> ?", not, as I put it, "Que dirai-je ?". Since this came up I've been
> listening for it and tonight a woman selling her house in Viager said
> "Comment dirai-je ?".
Not to quibble, but I think the intended phrase is basically with the
> On 2022-01-24 18:51:33 +0000, Bebercito said:
>
> > It's just dawned on me that "superlative" is a word that both constitutes
> > the signifier for the concept of "having a very high degree of something
> > or quality" when it's a noun, and the signified of that concept when it's
> > an adjective meaning "excellent" or "great", thus creating some kind of
> > "mirror effect" between signifier and signified.
> >
> > To make my point clearer with a prosaic example, that amounts to
> > calling someone a "lineage insult" instead of a "bastard".
> >
> > That feature seems rather unique to me, but there may be other such
> > words. Can you think of any?
> Nothing to do with this thread, but I can't find the one were it
> belongs, but you were correct that the expression is "Comment dirai-je
> ?", not, as I put it, "Que dirai-je ?". Since this came up I've been
> listening for it and tonight a woman selling her house in Viager said
> "Comment dirai-je ?".
conditional, i.e. "Comment dirais-je ?"
>
> That puts another question in my mind: is Viager purely French, or does
> the system exist elsewhere? (There are lots of pages on the web that
> explain it better than I could do.)
in English, but the system pretty much seems to be limited to
France and Belgium:
---
PETIT TOUR DU MONDE DU VIAGER...
Le viager existe dans d'autres pays, notamment dans les pays où le Code
Napoléon a fait légion.
Mais les deux pays où cette vente particulière est répandue sont la France
et la Belgique. L'Italie connaît le principe sous la forme de la nue propriété.
La Suisse connaît également le système mais il est peu répandu. En Espagne,
ce système existe mais est l'apanage des compagnies d'assurance, seules
habilitées à le délivrer. Les pays Anglo-Saxons connaissent le viager sous
une forme apparentée dite "hypothèque inversée".
https://www.viagerlodel.fr/fr/le-viager#:~:text=Le%20viager%20existe%20dans%20d,la%20France%20et%20la%20Belgique.
---
"le Code Napoléon a fait légion" above must be a mistake for "le
Code Napoléon a fait florès" (= "has enjoyed great success"), as the
phrase doesn't make sense as is. (Incidentally, that's an instance of
- improperly - using what I've called "fig-leaf words" in another topic.)
Jerry Friedman
Jan 27, 2022, 5:15:34 PM1/27/22
to
On Thursday, January 27, 2022 at 1:40:32 PM UTC-7, Bebercito wrote:
> Le jeudi 27 janvier 2022 à 20:44:16 UTC+1, Athel Cornish-Bowden a écrit :
...
> Le jeudi 27 janvier 2022 à 20:44:16 UTC+1, Athel Cornish-Bowden a écrit :
> > That puts another question in my mind: is Viager purely French, or does
> > the system exist elsewhere? (There are lots of pages on the web that
> > explain it better than I could do.)
> I know "viager" does have an existing translation ("life annuity")
> in English, but the system pretty much seems to be limited to
> France and Belgium:
>
> ---
> PETIT TOUR DU MONDE DU VIAGER...
> Le viager existe dans d'autres pays, notamment dans les pays où le Code
> Napoléon a fait légion.
>
> Mais les deux pays où cette vente particulière est répandue sont la France
> et la Belgique. L'Italie connaît le principe sous la forme de la nue propriété.
> La Suisse connaît également le système mais il est peu répandu. En Espagne,
> ce système existe mais est l'apanage des compagnies d'assurance, seules
> habilitées à le délivrer. Les pays Anglo-Saxons connaissent le viager sous
> une forme apparentée dite "hypothèque inversée".
>
> https://www.viagerlodel.fr/fr/le-viager#:~:text=Le%20viager%20existe%20dans%20d,la%20France%20et%20la%20Belgique.
> ---
their houses that way to get retirement income. I don't have any numbers,
but since I know about it, it's probably pretty well known, maybe even
widespread. Anyway, its existence here suggests that the Code Napoléon
may not be all that relevant.
"What's the French word for entrepreneur?" is a joke, but "What's the French
word for mortgage?" is a perfectly sensible question.
> "le Code Napoléon a fait légion" above must be a mistake for "le
> Code Napoléon a fait florès" (= "has enjoyed great success"), as the
> phrase doesn't make sense as is. (Incidentally, that's an instance of
> - improperly - using what I've called "fig-leaf words" in another topic.)
"connaît le système", "ce système existe", "connaît le viager". That
may be more widely accepted in French than in English.
--
Jerry Friedman
Bebercito
Jan 27, 2022, 8:21:46 PM1/27/22
to
Le jeudi 27 janvier 2022 à 23:15:34 UTC+1, Jerry Friedman a écrit :
> On Thursday, January 27, 2022 at 1:40:32 PM UTC-7, Bebercito wrote:
> > Le jeudi 27 janvier 2022 à 20:44:16 UTC+1, Athel Cornish-Bowden a écrit :
> ...
> > > That puts another question in my mind: is Viager purely French, or does
> > > the system exist elsewhere? (There are lots of pages on the web that
> > > explain it better than I could do.)
>
> > I know "viager" does have an existing translation ("life annuity")
> > in English, but the system pretty much seems to be limited to
> > France and Belgium:
> >
> > ---
> > PETIT TOUR DU MONDE DU VIAGER...
> > Le viager existe dans d'autres pays, notamment dans les pays où le Code
> > Napoléon a fait légion.
> >
> > Mais les deux pays où cette vente particulière est répandue sont la France
> > et la Belgique. L'Italie connaît le principe sous la forme de la nue propriété.
> > La Suisse connaît également le système mais il est peu répandu. En Espagne,
> > ce système existe mais est l'apanage des compagnies d'assurance, seules
> > habilitées à le délivrer. Les pays Anglo-Saxons connaissent le viager sous
> > une forme apparentée dite "hypothèque inversée".
> >
> > https://www.viagerlodel.fr/fr/le-viager#:~:text=Le%20viager%20existe%20dans%20d,la%20France%20et%20la%20Belgique.
> > ---
> That's right, there is an Anglo-Saxon term "reverse mortgage". People sell
> their houses that way to get retirement income.
The following seems to indicate that they don't actually sell their
> On Thursday, January 27, 2022 at 1:40:32 PM UTC-7, Bebercito wrote:
> > Le jeudi 27 janvier 2022 à 20:44:16 UTC+1, Athel Cornish-Bowden a écrit :
> ...
> > > That puts another question in my mind: is Viager purely French, or does
> > > the system exist elsewhere? (There are lots of pages on the web that
> > > explain it better than I could do.)
>
> > I know "viager" does have an existing translation ("life annuity")
> > in English, but the system pretty much seems to be limited to
> > France and Belgium:
> >
> > ---
> > PETIT TOUR DU MONDE DU VIAGER...
> > Le viager existe dans d'autres pays, notamment dans les pays où le Code
> > Napoléon a fait légion.
> >
> > Mais les deux pays où cette vente particulière est répandue sont la France
> > et la Belgique. L'Italie connaît le principe sous la forme de la nue propriété.
> > La Suisse connaît également le système mais il est peu répandu. En Espagne,
> > ce système existe mais est l'apanage des compagnies d'assurance, seules
> > habilitées à le délivrer. Les pays Anglo-Saxons connaissent le viager sous
> > une forme apparentée dite "hypothèque inversée".
> >
> > https://www.viagerlodel.fr/fr/le-viager#:~:text=Le%20viager%20existe%20dans%20d,la%20France%20et%20la%20Belgique.
> > ---
> That's right, there is an Anglo-Saxon term "reverse mortgage". People sell
> their houses that way to get retirement income.
houses, as they would in the viager approach:
---
What Is a Reverse Mortgage?
In a word, a reverse mortgage is a loan. A homeowner who is 62 or older
and has considerable home equity can borrow against the value of their
home and receive funds as a lump sum, fixed monthly payment, or line
of credit. Unlike a forward mortgage—the type used to buy a
home—a reverse mortgage doesn’t require the homeowner to make
any loan payments.1
Instead, the entire loan balance becomes due and payable when the
borrower dies, moves away permanently, or sells the home. Federal
regulations require lenders to structure the transaction so that the
loan amount doesn’t exceed the home’s value and that the borrower
or borrower’s estate won’t be held responsible for paying the
difference if the loan balance does become larger than the home’s
value. One way that this could happen is through a drop in the home’s
market value; another is if the borrower lives for a long time.
https://www.investopedia.com/mortgage/reverse-mortgage/
---
> I don't have any numbers,
> but since I know about it, it's probably pretty well known, maybe even
> widespread. Anyway, its existence here suggests that the Code Napoléon
> may not be all that relevant.
>
> "What's the French word for entrepreneur?" is a joke, but "What's the French
> word for mortgage?" is a perfectly sensible question.
> > "le Code Napoléon a fait légion" above must be a mistake for "le
> > Code Napoléon a fait florès" (= "has enjoyed great success"), as the
> > phrase doesn't make sense as is. (Incidentally, that's an instance of
> > - improperly - using what I've called "fig-leaf words" in another topic.)
> And what about the "elegant variation"? "Connaît le principe",
> "connaît le système", "ce système existe", "connaît le viager". That
> may be more widely accepted in French than in English.
stylistics to avoid repetitions as much as possible, sometimes at the
expense of clarity.
>
> --
> Jerry Friedman
Paul Carmichael
Jan 28, 2022, 4:21:01 AM1/28/22
to
El Thu, 27 Jan 2022 08:56:47 -0800, Bebercito escribió:
> Le jeudi 27 janvier 2022 à 17:39:40 UTC+1, Paul Carmichael a écrit :
>> El Thu, 27 Jan 2022 08:04:54 -0800, Bebercito escribió:
>>
>> > Le jeudi 27 janvier 2022 à 14:05:34 UTC+1, Paul Carmichael a écrit :
>> >> El Thu, 27 Jan 2022 12:13:14 +0100, Athel Cornish-Bowden escribió:
>> >>
>> >> > You can find some pretty strange names in Spain (for ordinary
>> >> > people,
>> >> > not nuns), like Purificación and even Circoncisión.
https://dle.rae.es/circuncisi%C3%B3n
> Le jeudi 27 janvier 2022 à 17:39:40 UTC+1, Paul Carmichael a écrit :
>> El Thu, 27 Jan 2022 08:04:54 -0800, Bebercito escribió:
>>
>> > Le jeudi 27 janvier 2022 à 14:05:34 UTC+1, Paul Carmichael a écrit :
>> >> El Thu, 27 Jan 2022 12:13:14 +0100, Athel Cornish-Bowden escribió:
>> >>
>> >> > You can find some pretty strange names in Spain (for ordinary
>> >> > people,
>> >> > not nuns), like Purificación and even Circoncisión.
>
> As an afterwit, wouldn't the Spanish surname "Cortado" be fittingly
> associated with the latter?
>
>> >> Yup, I know quite a few. "Inmaculada" is very popular.
>> >
>> > And predictably, so is its sidekick "Concepción".
>> Aka "Conchi".
>
> Or even the more risqué "Concha", I believe.
--
Paul.
https://paulc.es/elpatio
Paul Carmichael
Jan 28, 2022, 4:25:18 AM1/28/22
to
without justification.
https://lindefisioterapia.com/
--
Paul.
https://paulc.es/elpatio
Adam Funk
Jan 28, 2022, 5:45:08 AM1/28/22
to
"sponsorship, patronage" for the first word.)
--
Morality is doing what's right regardless of what you're
told. Obedience is doing what you're told regardless of what is
right. (attributed to H.L. Mencken)
Paul Carmichael
Jan 28, 2022, 5:45:19 AM1/28/22
to
Snidely
Jan 28, 2022, 6:21:04 AM1/28/22
to
-d
--
Maybe C282Y is simply one of the hangers-on, a groupie following a
future guitar god of the human genome: an allele with undiscovered
virtuosity, currently soloing in obscurity in Mom's garage.
Bradley Wertheim, theAtlantic.com, Jan 10 2013
Paul Carmichael
Jan 28, 2022, 6:51:33 AM1/28/22
to
Or
-----------------------------------
Patrocinio de Nuestra Señora
1. m. Título de una fiesta de la Virgen María, que se celebra en una de
las domínicas de noviembre.
Patrocinio de San José
1. m. Título que se da a una fiesta del patriarca san José, celebrada en
la tercera domínica de la Pascua de Resurrección.
-----------------------------------
No mention of Jesús, I'm afraid.
--
Paul.
https://paulc.es/elpatio
Quinn C
Jan 28, 2022, 9:24:00 AM1/28/22
to
* Adam Funk:
> On 2022-01-25, Stoat wrote:
>
>> On 26/01/22 5:24 am, Adam Funk wrote:
>>> On 2022-01-25, Ken Blake wrote:
>>>
>>>> I agree with both of the above. But my biggest problem is with
>>>> "unprintable Hun." I never met a Hun who was unprintable. I would
>>>> write "[unprintable] Hun," or "[expletive deleted] Hun."
>>>
>>> I've heard of a poet/singer who goes by "Attila the Stockbroker".
>>>
>> The religious order to which my daughter belongs has a Sister Attila.
>> It seems not to have occurred to them that she is Attila the Nun.
>
> Or maybe they eventually stopped joking about it?
>
> AIUI, women used to pick new given names when becoming nuns, although
> the only Saint Attila I'm aware of is the non-canonical one mentioned
> in _Monty Python and the Holy Grail_.
For a while, we had a receptionist at our company, a woman named
Yemitsu, after the Japanese shogun who outlawed Catholicism (she was not
Japanese.) She claimed that she used to scare the nuns at her school by
pointing out that her namesake had thousands of Christians killed.
--
Young people aren't short of messages, but of a sense for
interconnections.
-- Helen Feng [my translation from German]
> On 2022-01-25, Stoat wrote:
>
>> On 26/01/22 5:24 am, Adam Funk wrote:
>>> On 2022-01-25, Ken Blake wrote:
>>>
>>>> I agree with both of the above. But my biggest problem is with
>>>> "unprintable Hun." I never met a Hun who was unprintable. I would
>>>> write "[unprintable] Hun," or "[expletive deleted] Hun."
>>>
>>> I've heard of a poet/singer who goes by "Attila the Stockbroker".
>>>
>> The religious order to which my daughter belongs has a Sister Attila.
>> It seems not to have occurred to them that she is Attila the Nun.
>
> Or maybe they eventually stopped joking about it?
>
> AIUI, women used to pick new given names when becoming nuns, although
> the only Saint Attila I'm aware of is the non-canonical one mentioned
> in _Monty Python and the Holy Grail_.
Yemitsu, after the Japanese shogun who outlawed Catholicism (she was not
Japanese.) She claimed that she used to scare the nuns at her school by
pointing out that her namesake had thousands of Christians killed.
--
Young people aren't short of messages, but of a sense for
interconnections.
-- Helen Feng [my translation from German]
Jerry Friedman
Jan 28, 2022, 9:51:01 AM1/28/22
to
to viager, as the article said. However, farther down in the investopedia
article you can see
"They [lenders] also must either allow any heirs several months to decide
whether they want to repay the reverse mortgage or allow the lender to sell
the home to pay off the loan.9"
So the lender usually ends up owning the home, and in practice it's a lot
like selling the house to the lender with the heirs having an option to buy
it back.
Another difference from viager appears to be that the lender or
quasi-buyer is always a financial institution, not an individual looking for
a place to retire to, and not all financial institutions offer reverse
mortgages.
> > I don't have any numbers,
> > but since I know about it, it's probably pretty well known, maybe even
> > widespread. Anyway, its existence here suggests that the Code Napoléon
> > may not be all that relevant.
> >
> > "What's the French word for entrepreneur?" is a joke, but "What's the French
> > word for mortgage?" is a perfectly sensible question.
> "Hypothèque" isn't that familiar a word even in France.
I see Collins translates "mortgage" as "emprunt immobilier", real-estate
loan.
> > And what about the "elegant variation"? "Connaît le principe",
> > "connaît le système", "ce système existe", "connaît le viager". That
> > may be more widely accepted in French than in English.
> Not only is it accepted in French, but it's also a golden rule of French
> stylistics to avoid repetitions as much as possible, sometimes at the
> expense of clarity.
connerie to repeat "connaît"?
--
Jerry Friedman
Quinn C
Jan 28, 2022, 10:23:57 AM1/28/22
to
* Adam Funk:
Of course we still say things like "Hunnenkönig Attila", but it's not
considered part of the name, so more like additional knowledge.
In the Nibelungenlied, he's called Etzel, but you'd have to be pretty
geeky to think of that when meeting an Edsel.
--
Some of the most horrific things ever done to humans
were done by the politest, best-dressed, most well-spoken
people from the very best homes and neighborhoods.
-- Jerry Springer
considered part of the name, so more like additional knowledge.
In the Nibelungenlied, he's called Etzel, but you'd have to be pretty
geeky to think of that when meeting an Edsel.
--
Some of the most horrific things ever done to humans
were done by the politest, best-dressed, most well-spoken
people from the very best homes and neighborhoods.
-- Jerry Springer
Adam Funk
Jan 28, 2022, 11:15:51 AM1/28/22
to
source of the car name) until checking Wikipedia: there are a few but
not many.
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edsel_(disambiguation)>
--
Consistently separating words by spaces became a general custom about
the tenth century A. D., and lasted until about 1957, when FORTRAN
abandoned the practice. ---Sun FORTRAN Reference Manual
Athel Cornish-Bowden
Jan 28, 2022, 12:10:08 PM1/28/22
to
On 2022-01-28 14:50:58 +0000, Jerry Friedman said:
> On Thursday, January 27, 2022 at 6:21:46 PM UTC-7, Bebercito wrote:
> [ … ]
> On Thursday, January 27, 2022 at 6:21:46 PM UTC-7, Bebercito wrote:
>
>> Not only is it accepted in French, but it's also a golden rule of
>> French> stylistics to avoid repetitions as much as possible, sometimes
>> at the> expense of clarity.
While you're there, Berbercito, can you clarify something else for me?
>> Not only is it accepted in French, but it's also a golden rule of
>> French> stylistics to avoid repetitions as much as possible, sometimes
>> at the> expense of clarity.
French word order sometimes seems weird to English speakers. The other
night there was a headline on the journal télévisé (France 5, I think)
that said "Un médecin syrien jugé pour crimes contre l'humanité en
Allemagne." To an English speaker that seems to say that the crimes
were committed in Germany, but both common sense and the panel
discussion indicate that they were committed in Syria. Ignoring common
sense, how would you interpret it?
> I thought everything that wasn't clear wasn't French. And was it a
> connerie to repeat "connaît"?
--
Sam Plusnet
Jan 28, 2022, 1:35:31 PM1/28/22
to
On 28-Jan-22 14:23, Quinn C wrote:
> For a while, we had a receptionist at our company, a woman named
> Yemitsu, after the Japanese shogun who outlawed Catholicism (she was not
> Japanese.) She claimed that she used to scare the nuns at her school by
> pointing out that her namesake had thousands of Christians killed.
Just asking for the response:
> For a while, we had a receptionist at our company, a woman named
> Yemitsu, after the Japanese shogun who outlawed Catholicism (she was not
> Japanese.) She claimed that she used to scare the nuns at her school by
> pointing out that her namesake had thousands of Christians killed.
"Payback's a bitch!" - but a nun may phrase that another way.
--
Sam Plusnet
Bebercito
Jan 28, 2022, 1:38:37 PM1/28/22
to
the title to the house and can even sell it if they want to, which
makes a notable difference from viager.
>
> Another difference from viager appears to be that the lender or
> quasi-buyer is always a financial institution, not an individual looking for
> a place to retire to, and not all financial institutions offer reverse
> mortgages.
> > > I don't have any numbers,
> > > but since I know about it, it's probably pretty well known, maybe even
> > > widespread. Anyway, its existence here suggests that the Code Napoléon
> > > may not be all that relevant.
> > >
> > > "What's the French word for entrepreneur?" is a joke, but "What's the French
> > > word for mortgage?" is a perfectly sensible question.
>
> > "Hypothèque" isn't that familiar a word even in France.
> ...
>
> I see Collins translates "mortgage" as "emprunt immobilier", real-estate
> loan.
"mortgage", and the case discussed seems to be more about a pledged
asset or a security than about a loan, so that the translation IMO is
"hypothèque".
> > > And what about the "elegant variation"? "Connaît le principe",
> > > "connaît le système", "ce système existe", "connaît le viager". That
> > > may be more widely accepted in French than in English.
>
> > Not only is it accepted in French, but it's also a golden rule of French
> > stylistics to avoid repetitions as much as possible, sometimes at the
> > expense of clarity.
> I thought everything that wasn't clear wasn't French.
that with people sometimes using remote references to the
same thing to avoid repetitions, what they say or write can
easily become confusing.
> And was it a
> connerie to repeat "connaît"?
>
> --
> Jerry Friedman
Bebercito
Jan 28, 2022, 1:48:06 PM1/28/22
to
Le vendredi 28 janvier 2022 à 18:10:08 UTC+1, Athel Cornish-Bowden a écrit :
> On 2022-01-28 14:50:58 +0000, Jerry Friedman said:
>
> > On Thursday, January 27, 2022 at 6:21:46 PM UTC-7, Bebercito wrote:
> > [ … ]
> >
> >> Not only is it accepted in French, but it's also a golden rule of
> >> French> stylistics to avoid repetitions as much as possible, sometimes
> >> at the> expense of clarity.
> While you're there, Berbercito, can you clarify something else for me?
> French word order sometimes seems weird to English speakers. The other
> night there was a headline on the journal télévisé (France 5, I think)
> that said "Un médecin syrien jugé pour crimes contre l'humanité en
> Allemagne." To an English speaker that seems to say that the crimes
> were committed in Germany, but both common sense and the panel
> discussion indicate that they were committed in Syria. Ignoring common
> sense, how would you interpret it?
As if the crimes had been committed in Germany (my first reaction,
> On 2022-01-28 14:50:58 +0000, Jerry Friedman said:
>
> > On Thursday, January 27, 2022 at 6:21:46 PM UTC-7, Bebercito wrote:
> > [ … ]
> >
> >> Not only is it accepted in French, but it's also a golden rule of
> >> French> stylistics to avoid repetitions as much as possible, sometimes
> >> at the> expense of clarity.
> While you're there, Berbercito, can you clarify something else for me?
> French word order sometimes seems weird to English speakers. The other
> night there was a headline on the journal télévisé (France 5, I think)
> that said "Un médecin syrien jugé pour crimes contre l'humanité en
> Allemagne." To an English speaker that seems to say that the crimes
> were committed in Germany, but both common sense and the panel
> discussion indicate that they were committed in Syria. Ignoring common
> sense, how would you interpret it?
BTW) - the more so since the sentence could easily be clarified as
"Un médecin syrien jugé en Allemagne pour crimes contre l'humanité".
lar3ryca
Jan 28, 2022, 1:52:25 PM1/28/22
to
On Friday, January 28, 2022 at 5:21:04 AM UTC-6, snide...@gmail.com wrote:
> Paul Carmichael wrote on 1/28/2022 :
> > El Fri, 28 Jan 2022 09:20:57 +0000, Paul Carmichael escribió:
> >
> >> El Thu, 27 Jan 2022 08:56:47 -0800, Bebercito escribió:
> >>
> >>> Le jeudi 27 janvier 2022 à 17:39:40 UTC+1, Paul Carmichael a écrit :
> >>>> El Thu, 27 Jan 2022 08:04:54 -0800, Bebercito escribió:
> >>>>
> >>>>> Le jeudi 27 janvier 2022 à 14:05:34 UTC+1, Paul Carmichael a écrit :
> >>>>>> El Thu, 27 Jan 2022 12:13:14 +0100, Athel Cornish-Bowden escribió:
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>> You can find some pretty strange names in Spain (for ordinary
> >>>>>>> people,
> >>>>>>> not nuns), like Purificación and even Circoncisión.
> >>
> >> https://dle.rae.es/circuncisi%C3%B3n
> >>
> >>
> >>> As an afterwit, wouldn't the Spanish surname "Cortado" be fittingly
> >>> associated with the latter?
> >>>
> >>>>>> Yup, I know quite a few. "Inmaculada" is very popular.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> And predictably, so is its sidekick "Concepción".
> >>>> Aka "Conchi".
> >>>
> >>> Or even the more risqué "Concha", I believe.
> >>
> >> Shell we just leave it there?
> >
> > If I have to explain that I shall get crabby.
> We'll just clam up.
Aaah, baloney!
> Paul Carmichael wrote on 1/28/2022 :
> > El Fri, 28 Jan 2022 09:20:57 +0000, Paul Carmichael escribió:
> >
> >> El Thu, 27 Jan 2022 08:56:47 -0800, Bebercito escribió:
> >>
> >>> Le jeudi 27 janvier 2022 à 17:39:40 UTC+1, Paul Carmichael a écrit :
> >>>> El Thu, 27 Jan 2022 08:04:54 -0800, Bebercito escribió:
> >>>>
> >>>>> Le jeudi 27 janvier 2022 à 14:05:34 UTC+1, Paul Carmichael a écrit :
> >>>>>> El Thu, 27 Jan 2022 12:13:14 +0100, Athel Cornish-Bowden escribió:
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>> You can find some pretty strange names in Spain (for ordinary
> >>>>>>> people,
> >>>>>>> not nuns), like Purificación and even Circoncisión.
> >>
> >> https://dle.rae.es/circuncisi%C3%B3n
> >>
> >>
> >>> As an afterwit, wouldn't the Spanish surname "Cortado" be fittingly
> >>> associated with the latter?
> >>>
> >>>>>> Yup, I know quite a few. "Inmaculada" is very popular.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> And predictably, so is its sidekick "Concepción".
> >>>> Aka "Conchi".
> >>>
> >>> Or even the more risqué "Concha", I believe.
> >>
> >> Shell we just leave it there?
> >
> > If I have to explain that I shall get crabby.
> We'll just clam up.
You can't mussel me into that.
Athel Cornish-Bowden
Jan 28, 2022, 2:40:57 PM1/28/22
to
On 2022-01-28 18:48:03 +0000, Bebercito said:
> Le vendredi 28 janvier 2022 à 18:10:08 UTC+1, Athel Cornish-Bowden a écrit :
>> On 2022-01-28 14:50:58 +0000, Jerry Friedman said:>> > On Thursday,
>> January 27, 2022 at 6:21:46 PM UTC-7, Bebercito wrote:
>>> [ … ]
>>>
>>>> Not only is it accepted in French, but it's also a golden rule of> >>
>>>> French> stylistics to avoid repetitions as much as possible, sometimes>
>>>> >> at the> expense of clarity.
>> While you're there, Berbercito, can you clarify something else for me?>
>> French word order sometimes seems weird to English speakers. The other>
>> night there was a headline on the journal télévisé (France 5, I think)>
>> that said "Un médecin syrien jugé pour crimes contre l'humanité en>
>> Allemagne." To an English speaker that seems to say that the crimes>
>> were committed in Germany, but both common sense and the panel>
>> discussion indicate that they were committed in Syria. Ignoring common>
>> sense, how would you interpret it?
>
> As if the crimes had been committed in Germany (my first reaction,
> BTW) - the more so since the sentence could easily be clarified as
> "Un médecin syrien jugé en Allemagne pour crimes contre l'humanité".
Indeed. That's how I would have written it.
> Le vendredi 28 janvier 2022 à 18:10:08 UTC+1, Athel Cornish-Bowden a écrit :
>> On 2022-01-28 14:50:58 +0000, Jerry Friedman said:>> > On Thursday,
>> January 27, 2022 at 6:21:46 PM UTC-7, Bebercito wrote:
>>> [ … ]
>>>
>>>> Not only is it accepted in French, but it's also a golden rule of> >>
>>>> French> stylistics to avoid repetitions as much as possible, sometimes>
>>>> >> at the> expense of clarity.
>> While you're there, Berbercito, can you clarify something else for me?>
>> French word order sometimes seems weird to English speakers. The other>
>> night there was a headline on the journal télévisé (France 5, I think)>
>> that said "Un médecin syrien jugé pour crimes contre l'humanité en>
>> Allemagne." To an English speaker that seems to say that the crimes>
>> were committed in Germany, but both common sense and the panel>
>> discussion indicate that they were committed in Syria. Ignoring common>
>> sense, how would you interpret it?
>
> As if the crimes had been committed in Germany (my first reaction,
> BTW) - the more so since the sentence could easily be clarified as
> "Un médecin syrien jugé en Allemagne pour crimes contre l'humanité".
Tak To
Jan 28, 2022, 11:58:34 PM1/28/22
to
On 1/26/2022 4:25 PM, Bebercito wrote:
> Le mercredi 26 janvier 2022 à 19:40:53 UTC+1, Tak To a écrit :
>> On 1/25/2022 12:42 PM, Bebercito wrote:
>>> Le mardi 25 janvier 2022 à 15:52:08 UTC+1, Tak To a écrit :
>>>> -- what so special about it?
>>>
>>> The concept itself is substituted for an instance of the
>>> concept, as I tried to explain (not easy, I admit). If you
>>> think that's common, please give other instances of it.
>> Following the pattern of
>>
>> What is the superlative [form/degree] of "superlative"?
>>
>> we can have
>>
>> What is the language of "language"?
>> What is [grammatical] number of "number"?
>> What is the word count in "word count"?
>> What is adjectival form of "adjectival"?
>> What is the tense of "tense"?
>> What is the pronunciation of "pronunciation"?
>> What is the spelling of "spelling"?
>> etc
>>
>> Moving from language to philosophy and other areas
>>
>> What is the meaning of "meaning"?
>> What is a synonym of "synonym"?
>> What are the questions in "Questions?"
>> What is the Erdos number of Erdos?
>> What is the octane number of [pure] octane?
>> etc
>>
>> Perhaps you have a more restrictive pattern in mind?
>
> No, a totally different one. To take your above example
> of 'What is a synonym of "synonym"?', for instance, the
> right analogy is that using "superlative" as a superlative
> is like saying:
>
> "Synonym" is a synonym for "nice".
>
> Instead of
>
> "Kind" is a synonym for "nice".
>
> HTH. (I'll keep it at that.)
Sorry, didn't help. I don't understand your point at all,
just as I did not understand what your "mirror effect" was.
FWIW, the superlative [form] of "nice" is "nicest".
--
Tak
----------------------------------------------------------------+-----
Tak To ta...@alum.mit.eduxx
--------------------------------------------------------------------^^
[taode takto ~{LU5B~}] NB: trim the xx to get my real email addr
> Le mercredi 26 janvier 2022 à 19:40:53 UTC+1, Tak To a écrit :
>> On 1/25/2022 12:42 PM, Bebercito wrote:
>>> Le mardi 25 janvier 2022 à 15:52:08 UTC+1, Tak To a écrit :
>>>> On 1/24/2022 1:51 PM, Bebercito wrote:
>>>>> It's just dawned on me that "superlative" is a word that both constitutes
>>>>> the signifier for the concept of "having a very high degree of something
>>>>> or quality" when it's a noun, and the signified of that concept when it's
>>>>> an adjective meaning "excellent" or "great", thus creating some kind of
>>>>> "mirror effect" between signifier and signified.
>>>>>
>>>>> To make my point clearer with a prosaic example, that amounts to
>>>>> calling someone a "lineage insult" instead of a "bastard".
>>>>>
>>>>> That feature seems rather unique to me, but there may be other such
>>>>> words. Can you think of any?
>>>>
>>>> A jargon term and its meaning in ordinary English are related
>>>>> It's just dawned on me that "superlative" is a word that both constitutes
>>>>> the signifier for the concept of "having a very high degree of something
>>>>> or quality" when it's a noun, and the signified of that concept when it's
>>>>> an adjective meaning "excellent" or "great", thus creating some kind of
>>>>> "mirror effect" between signifier and signified.
>>>>>
>>>>> To make my point clearer with a prosaic example, that amounts to
>>>>> calling someone a "lineage insult" instead of a "bastard".
>>>>>
>>>>> That feature seems rather unique to me, but there may be other such
>>>>> words. Can you think of any?
>>>>
>>>> -- what so special about it?
>>>
>>> The concept itself is substituted for an instance of the
>>> concept, as I tried to explain (not easy, I admit). If you
>>> think that's common, please give other instances of it.
>> Following the pattern of
>>
>> What is the superlative [form/degree] of "superlative"?
>>
>> we can have
>>
>> What is the language of "language"?
>> What is [grammatical] number of "number"?
>> What is the word count in "word count"?
>> What is adjectival form of "adjectival"?
>> What is the tense of "tense"?
>> What is the pronunciation of "pronunciation"?
>> What is the spelling of "spelling"?
>> etc
>>
>> Moving from language to philosophy and other areas
>>
>> What is the meaning of "meaning"?
>> What is a synonym of "synonym"?
>> What are the questions in "Questions?"
>> What is the Erdos number of Erdos?
>> What is the octane number of [pure] octane?
>> etc
>>
>> Perhaps you have a more restrictive pattern in mind?
>
> No, a totally different one. To take your above example
> of 'What is a synonym of "synonym"?', for instance, the
> right analogy is that using "superlative" as a superlative
> is like saying:
>
> "Synonym" is a synonym for "nice".
>
> Instead of
>
> "Kind" is a synonym for "nice".
>
> HTH. (I'll keep it at that.)
Sorry, didn't help. I don't understand your point at all,
just as I did not understand what your "mirror effect" was.
FWIW, the superlative [form] of "nice" is "nicest".
--
Tak
----------------------------------------------------------------+-----
Tak To ta...@alum.mit.eduxx
--------------------------------------------------------------------^^
[taode takto ~{LU5B~}] NB: trim the xx to get my real email addr
Peter Moylan
Jan 29, 2022, 2:17:16 AM1/29/22
to
On 27/01/22 05:40, Tak To wrote:
> What is the Erdos number of Erdos?
Zero, by definition. That's not one of the deep unsolved questions.
> What is the Erdos number of Erdos?
--
Peter Moylan Newcastle, NSW http://www.pmoylan.org
Tak To
Jan 29, 2022, 9:07:04 AM1/29/22
to
On 1/29/2022 2:17 AM, Peter Moylan wrote:
> On 27/01/22 05:40, Tak To wrote:
>
>> What is the Erdos number of Erdos?
>
> Zero, by definition. That's not one of the deep unsolved questions.
None of the others questions are -- their only significance is
> On 27/01/22 05:40, Tak To wrote:
>
>> What is the Erdos number of Erdos?
>
> Zero, by definition. That's not one of the deep unsolved questions.
that these questions (using these words) are meaningful.
Jerry Friedman
Jan 30, 2022, 11:00:49 AM1/30/22
to
acquires it when the owner dies?
> > Another difference from viager appears to be that the lender or
> > quasi-buyer is always a financial institution, not an individual looking for
> > a place to retire to, and not all financial institutions offer reverse
> > mortgages.
> > > > I don't have any numbers,
> > > > but since I know about it, it's probably pretty well known, maybe even
> > > > widespread. Anyway, its existence here suggests that the Code Napoléon
> > > > may not be all that relevant.
> > > >
> > > > "What's the French word for entrepreneur?" is a joke, but "What's the French
> > > > word for mortgage?" is a perfectly sensible question.
> >
> > > "Hypothèque" isn't that familiar a word even in France.
> > ...
> >
> > I see Collins translates "mortgage" as "emprunt immobilier", real-estate
> > loan.
> Yes, but conversely, there's no other translation for "hypothèque" than
> "mortgage", and the case discussed seems to be more about a pledged
> asset or a security than about a loan, so that the translation IMO is
> "hypothèque".
> > > > And what about the "elegant variation"? "Connaît le principe",
> > > > "connaît le système", "ce système existe", "connaît le viager". That
> > > > may be more widely accepted in French than in English.
> >
> > > Not only is it accepted in French, but it's also a golden rule of French
> > > stylistics to avoid repetitions as much as possible, sometimes at the
> > > expense of clarity.
> > I thought everything that wasn't clear wasn't French.
> The French syntax is supposed to be very clear, but I meant
> that with people sometimes using remote references to the
> same thing to avoid repetitions, what they say or write can
> easily become confusing.
> > And was it a
> > connerie to repeat "connaît"?
> No (or is that a play on words?).
--
Jerry Friedman
Peter Moylan
Jan 30, 2022, 6:30:45 PM1/30/22
to
Adam Funk
Jan 31, 2022, 10:15:08 AM1/31/22
to
to be specific to a few Spanish-speaking countries!
--
You're a brave man. Go and break through the lines. And remember,
while you're out there risking your life and limb through shot and
shell, we'll be in be in here thinking what a sucker you are.
---President Rufus T Firefly
Bebercito
Jan 31, 2022, 1:24:54 PM1/31/22
to
explained (in French, unfortunately) here:
https://edito.seloger.com/conseils-d-experts/viager/peut-revendre-un-bien-achete-en-viager-avant-le-deces-du-credirentier-article-2545.html#toc-option-n-1-vendre-sans-transfert-de-l-obligation-de-verser-la-rente
Incidentally, to illustrate my point that using different wordings to refer
to the same thing can be confusing (below), here's a blatant example
from the article linked above:
---
"Le contrat de vente d'un bien immobilier en viager
Option n°1 : vendre sans transfert de l’obligation de verser la rente
Option n°2 : vendre avec transfert de la charge de verser les arrérages
Option n°3 : vendre avec transfert à un tiers de la charge de verser la rente"
---
In option 1 and 2, "transfert de l’obligation de verser la rente" and
"transfert de la charge de verser les arrérages" are actually one and
the same thing.
As the (legal) topic in itself is already pretty complex, I find using
different terms for the same notion a very ill-advised choice.
And yet, the process is common, even in French contracts.
>
> --
> Jerry Friedman
Jerry Friedman
Jan 31, 2022, 2:56:15 PM1/31/22
to
That's exactly why style writers in English deprecate the practice. Worse
yet, in this case, it looks as if the attempt failed. Surely even more
confusion could have been introduced with another phrasing for option
3, maybe something with "responsabilité".
OK, maybe it's more confusing the way it is, with the implication that
what's mentioned in 1 and 3 is different from what's mentioned in 2.
--
Jerry Friedman
0 new messages