To 'land with one's bum in the butter'

[Peter Brooks]

This isn't in the OED. A search of aue doesn't turn it up - which surprises me, I rather suspect google search.

Any idea of the origin?

[Horace LaBadie]

In article <c32bbe82-1fae-4010...@googlegroups.com>,

Emeril Lagasse?

[Mack A. Damia]

"land with (one's) bum in the butter—to experience good luck, fortune,
especially after a series of bad circumstances."

http://artistwd.com/joyzine/australia/strine/l-2.php#.VJ8L3BFfA

--

[Peter T. Daniels]

On Saturday, December 27, 2014 1:43:56 PM UTC-5, Peter Brooks wrote:

> This isn't in the OED. A search of aue doesn't turn it up - which surprises me, I rather suspect google search.
>
> Any idea of the origin?

??? How can there not be an entry for "This" in the OED? It's obviously
pure Germanic (cf. Ger. "dies"), but I don't know how it relates to
Indo-European.

[Peter Duncanson [BrE]]

Interesting. It loooks as thought it might not be widely known in
Austrlia, or it wasn't four years ago.
http://www.phrases.org.uk/bulletin_board/61/messages/936.html

Land with your bum in the butter
Posted by Leizl Mowbray on June 17, 2010 at 08:46

I would like to know the origin of the saying 'land with your bum in
the butter'. I grew up in South Africa, knowing this saying but when
mentioning it in New Zealand and Australia, it wasn't understood. I
am sure it is an English saying and would like to know it's meaning
(so I can explain it more succintly) and origin. Thank you.

--
Peter Duncanson, UK
(in alt.usage.english)

[Peter Duncanson [BrE]]

On Sat, 27 Dec 2014 10:43:54 -0800 (PST), Peter Brooks
<peter.h....@gmail.com> wrote:

>This isn't in the OED.

The OED entries for both "bum" and "butter" are marked "This entry has
not yet been fully updated (first published 1888)".

The saying may be more recent than that.

> A search of aue doesn't turn it up - which surprises me, I rather suspect google search.
>
>Any idea of the origin?

[Peter Moylan]

I had never heard of it. When I saw this thread, I initially thought
that "butter" was a typo for "gutter".

--
Peter Moylan http://www.pmoylan.org
Newcastle, NSW, Australia

[Mack A. Damia]

On Sun, 28 Dec 2014 10:20:26 +1100, Peter Moylan <pe...@pmoylan.org>
wrote:

I saw it in a cricket blog about Sri Lanka:

"To have one or two great players in a team is quite lucky as it
affords that team the chance for some unlikely victories here and
there. Having four or five in one side is, simply put, to land with
one's bum in the butter!"

http://www.supersport.com/cricket/blogs/mpumelelo-mbangwa/Sri_Lanka_will_be_mighty_tough

--

[Steve Hayes]

On Sat, 27 Dec 2014 22:51:48 +0000, "Peter Duncanson [BrE]"
<ma...@peterduncanson.net> wrote:

>On Sat, 27 Dec 2014 10:43:54 -0800 (PST), Peter Brooks
><peter.h....@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>This isn't in the OED.
>
>The OED entries for both "bum" and "butter" are marked "This entry has
>not yet been fully updated (first published 1888)".
>
>The saying may be more recent than that.
>
>> A search of aue doesn't turn it up - which surprises me, I rather suspect google search.
>>
>>Any idea of the origin?

I've known it since about 1960.

When I first heard it I thought it rather strange, because having one's bum
covered with butter sounds rather uncomfortable to me, but of course idioms
like that are not meant to be understood literally.

It is usually used of getting a good job, with good pay, pleasant working
conditions, and doing something you like to do.

Maybe it is purely, or predominantly SAfE.


--
Steve Hayes from Tshwane, South Africa
Web: http://www.khanya.org.za/stevesig.htm
Blog: http://khanya.wordpress.com
E-mail - see web page, or parse: shayes at dunelm full stop org full stop uk

[Peter Brooks]

On Sunday, 28 December 2014 04:55:29 UTC+2, Steve Hayes wrote:
>
> It is usually used of getting a good job, with good pay, pleasant working
> conditions, and doing something you like to do.
>

Often of a person envied for unusually good fortune - 'Oh, I'm not surprised to hear that, he always seems to land up with his bum in the butter.'

>
> Maybe it is purely, or predominantly SAfE.
>

Maybe. I'm pretty sure I've heard it being used in Pom, but I can't be certain.

A few trawls through ngrams didn't start up anything related.

[J. J. Lodder]

From Dutch perhaps?
'Met zijn neus in the boter vallen"
(lit. Fall with one's nose in the butter)
17th century, Brederoo, Klucht v.d. Molenaar, vs. 474:
Dat ick so ien reys mocht mit myn neus in 't vet raken
Origin unknown, various explanations
deriving from butter being for the rich only.

Given the alliteration, not possible in Dutch,
the transposition from 'neus' to 'bum' is plausible,

Jan

[Jerry Friedman]

On Saturday, December 27, 2014 9:55:29 PM UTC-5, Steve Hayes wrote:
> On Sat, 27 Dec 2014 22:51:48 +0000, "Peter Duncanson [BrE]"
> <ma...@peterduncanson.net> wrote:
>
> >On Sat, 27 Dec 2014 10:43:54 -0800 (PST), Peter Brooks
> ><peter.h....@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >>This isn't in the OED.
> >
> >The OED entries for both "bum" and "butter" are marked "This entry has
> >not yet been fully updated (first published 1888)".
> >
> >The saying may be more recent than that.
> >
> >> A search of aue doesn't turn it up - which surprises me, I rather suspect google search.
> >>
> >>Any idea of the origin?
>
> I've known it since about 1960.
>
> When I first heard it I thought it rather strange, because having one's bum
> covered with butter sounds rather uncomfortable to me,

Same with me.

> but of course idioms
> like that are not meant to be understood literally.
>
> It is usually used of getting a good job, with good pay, pleasant working
> conditions, and doing something you like to do.
>
> Maybe it is purely, or predominantly SAfE.

It could catch on in American English as "land with one's butt in the
butter". (Compare "butter-butt", birders' slang for the Yellow-rumped
Warbler.) However, I suspect the American meaning would be the opposite
of the South African one.

--
Jerry Friedman

[Jerry Friedman]

On Sunday, December 28, 2014 6:47:30 AM UTC-5, J. J. Lodder wrote:
> Peter Brooks <peter.h....@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > This isn't in the OED. A search of aue doesn't turn it up - which
> > surprises me, I rather suspect google search.
> >
> > Any idea of the origin?
>
> From Dutch perhaps?
> 'Met zijn neus in the boter vallen"

I think your "the" is the result of cross-linguistic contamination.

> (lit. Fall with one's nose in the butter)
> 17th century, Brederoo, Klucht v.d. Molenaar, vs. 474:
> Dat ick so ien reys mocht mit myn neus in 't vet raken
> Origin unknown, various explanations
> deriving from butter being for the rich only.

Interesting--I'd have guessed the butter also provided a soft landing.

> Given the alliteration, not possible in Dutch,

And the appeal of dysphemism.

> the transposition from 'neus' to 'bum' is plausible,

Yep.

--
Jerry Friedman

[J. J. Lodder]

Jerry Friedman <jerry_f...@yahoo.com> wrote:

> On Sunday, December 28, 2014 6:47:30 AM UTC-5, J. J. Lodder wrote:
> > Peter Brooks <peter.h....@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > > This isn't in the OED. A search of aue doesn't turn it up - which
> > > surprises me, I rather suspect google search.
> > >
> > > Any idea of the origin?
> >
> > From Dutch perhaps?
> > 'Met zijn neus in the boter vallen"
>
> I think your "the" is the result of cross-linguistic contamination.

No doubt, de boter of course.

> > (lit. Fall with one's nose in the butter)
> > 17th century, Brederoo, Klucht v.d. Molenaar, vs. 474:
> > Dat ick so ien reys mocht mit myn neus in 't vet raken
> > Origin unknown, various explanations
> > deriving from butter being for the rich only.
>
> Interesting--I'd have guessed the butter also provided a soft landing.

In the olden days butter came in barrels, (botervat)
and was sold by weight.
It must have been possible to fit with the bum
into a freshly opened barrel.
Perhaps also where 'scraping the bottom of the barrel'
came from.

Jan

[snide...@gmail.com]

On Sunday, December 28, 2014 3:09:00 PM UTC-8, J. J. Lodder wrote:
> Jerry Friedman <jerry_f...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > On Sunday, December 28, 2014 6:47:30 AM UTC-5, J. J. Lodder wrote:
> > > Peter Brooks <peter.h....@gmail.com> wrote:

> > > > This isn't in the OED. A search of aue doesn't turn it up - which
> > > > surprises me, I rather suspect google search.
> > > >
> > > > Any idea of the origin?
> > >
> > > From Dutch perhaps?
> > > 'Met zijn neus in the boter vallen"
> >
> > I think your "the" is the result of cross-linguistic contamination.
>
> No doubt, de boter of course.
>
> > > (lit. Fall with one's nose in the butter)
> > > 17th century, Brederoo, Klucht v.d. Molenaar, vs. 474:
> > > Dat ick so ien reys mocht mit myn neus in 't vet raken
> > > Origin unknown, various explanations
> > > deriving from butter being for the rich only.
> >
> > Interesting--I'd have guessed the butter also provided a soft landing.

That was my thought, too.

>
> In the olden days butter came in barrels, (botervat)
> and was sold by weight.
> It must have been possible to fit with the bum
> into a freshly opened barrel.
> Perhaps also where 'scraping the bottom of the barrel'
> came from.

It is so easy to forget how much packaging of products changed at the end of the 19th Century and continuing since then (metal foil toothpaste tubes, anyone?).

Thanks for the note.

/dps

[Charles Bishop]

In article <1902e69b-e35b-427b...@googlegroups.com>,

Just heard/read that the tubes for toothpaste (what did it come in
before, jars?) were an idea from the tubes used for artists' paint.
>
> Thanks for the note.

--
ctb

[Mike Barnes]

WIWAL we loaded our toothbrushes from powder blocks in shallow cans.
When we switched to toothpaste, it was in metal tubes.

The really clever bit was when they put striped toothpaste in tubes and
somehow arranged for it to always come out straight.

--
Mike Barnes
Cheshire, England

[Tony Cooper]

On Tue, 30 Dec 2014 19:19:43 +0000, Mike Barnes
<mikeba...@gmail.com> wrote:

>Charles Bishop wrote:
>> In article <1902e69b-e35b-427b...@googlegroups.com>,
>> snide...@gmail.com wrote:
>>
>>> On Sunday, December 28, 2014 3:09:00 PM UTC-8, J. J. Lodder wrote:
>>>> Jerry Friedman <jerry_f...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>> It is so easy to forget how much packaging of products changed at the end of
>>> the 19th Century and continuing since then (metal foil toothpaste tubes,
>>> anyone?).
>>
>> Just heard/read that the tubes for toothpaste (what did it come in
>> before, jars?) were an idea from the tubes used for artists' paint.
>
>WIWAL we loaded our toothbrushes from powder blocks in shallow cans.
>When we switched to toothpaste, it was in metal tubes.

Before toothpaste came in tubes, we bought tooth powder in a can:
http://galleryplus.ebayimg.com/ws/web/190957394241_1_0_1/500x500.jpg
You'd shake some powder onto the brush.


--
Tony Cooper - Orlando FL

[Peter T. Daniels]

On Tuesday, December 30, 2014 12:54:13 PM UTC-5, Charles Bishop wrote:

> Just heard/read that the tubes for toothpaste (what did it come in
> before, jars?) were an idea from the tubes used for artists' paint.

Before toothpaste there was "tooth powder." The brand we used in the 1950s
was Ammi-Dent. You shook a little into your palm, wet the toothbrush, and
dipped it in the little pile. It contained an abrasive and a flavoring, and
perhaps some sort of antiseptic.

[Peter T. Daniels]

On Tuesday, December 30, 2014 2:27:02 PM UTC-5, Mike Barnes wrote:

> WIWAL we loaded our toothbrushes from powder blocks in shallow cans.
> When we switched to toothpaste, it was in metal tubes.

Our powder was just loose in a tall metal can with a shallow oval cross
section. I think the screw-top on the spout (which was in the middle of
the top) was plastic.

> The really clever bit was when they put striped toothpaste in tubes and
> somehow arranged for it to always come out straight.

Surely at some point you dissected a tube, and found that the pigmented
bit was extruded from slots in the spout of the tube?

[Charles Bishop]

In article <7e3a47c6-96cb-46d1...@googlegroups.com>,

I remember that now.

--
charles

[Mack A. Damia]

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1949-Ammident-Tooth-Powder-Ad-The-Kovel-Family-Jackson-Heights-Long-Island-NY-/301424801677?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item462e51778d

Lots of choices:

http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_odkw=vintage+tooth+powder&_from=R40%7CR40&_osacat=0&_from=R40&_trksid=p2045573.m570.l1313.TR0.TRC0.H0&_nkw=vintage+tooth+powder&_sacat=0

--

[Steve Hayes]

On Tue, 30 Dec 2014 19:19:43 +0000, Mike Barnes <mikeba...@gmail.com>
wrote:

>Charles Bishop wrote:
>> In article <1902e69b-e35b-427b...@googlegroups.com>,
>> snide...@gmail.com wrote:
>>
>>> On Sunday, December 28, 2014 3:09:00 PM UTC-8, J. J. Lodder wrote:
>>>> Jerry Friedman <jerry_f...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>> It is so easy to forget how much packaging of products changed at the end of
>>> the 19th Century and continuing since then (metal foil toothpaste tubes,
>>> anyone?).
>>
>> Just heard/read that the tubes for toothpaste (what did it come in
>> before, jars?) were an idea from the tubes used for artists' paint.
>
>WIWAL we loaded our toothbrushes from powder blocks in shallow cans.
>When we switched to toothpaste, it was in metal tubes.

I only knew of toothpaste in tubes until I went to a boarding school that
insisted that we must have Gibbs Dentifrice, which was one of those powder
blocks. I wonder if they paid the school for making that stipulation, or
whether it was because of a past incident in which small boys had a toothpaste
fight and smeared each other with toothpaste.

[perpa...@gmail.com]

On Sunday, 28 December 2014 06:50:18 UTC+8, PeterWD wrote:
> On Sat, 27 Dec 2014 11:44:42 -0800, Mack A. Damia
> <mybaco...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> >On Sat, 27 Dec 2014 10:43:54 -0800 (PST), Peter Brooks
> ><peter.h....@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >>This isn't in the OED. A search of aue doesn't turn it up - which surprises me, I rather suspect google search.
> >>
> >>Any idea of the origin?
> >

> >"land with (one's) bum in the butter--to experience good luck, fortune,

> >especially after a series of bad circumstances."
> >
> >http://artistwd.com/joyzine/australia/strine/l-2.php#.VJ8L3BFfA
>
> Interesting. It loooks as thought it might not be widely known in
> Austrlia, or it wasn't four years ago.
> http://www.phrases.org.uk/bulletin_board/61/messages/936.html
>
> Land with your bum in the butter
> Posted by Leizl Mowbray on June 17, 2010 at 08:46
>
> I would like to know the origin of the saying 'land with your bum in
> the butter'. I grew up in South Africa, knowing this saying but when
> mentioning it in New Zealand and Australia, it wasn't understood. I
> am sure it is an English saying and would like to know it's meaning
> (so I can explain it more succintly) and origin. Thank you.
>
> --
> Peter Duncanson, UK
> (in alt.usage.english)

It means to put yourself, without intent ,into a favourable position despite being in an austere environment economically.

[perpa...@gmail.com]

On Sunday, 28 December 2014 02:43:56 UTC+8, Peter Brooks wrote:
> This isn't in the OED. A search of aue doesn't turn it up - which surprises me, I rather suspect google search.
>
> Any idea of the origin?

It means the you find yourself,without intent,in a very favourable position ,within an austere economic environment

[perpa...@gmail.com]

On Sunday, 28 December 2014 06:50:18 UTC+8, PeterWD wrote:
> On Sat, 27 Dec 2014 11:44:42 -0800, Mack A. Damia
> <mybaco...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> >On Sat, 27 Dec 2014 10:43:54 -0800 (PST), Peter Brooks
> ><peter.h....@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >>This isn't in the OED. A search of aue doesn't turn it up - which surprises me, I rather suspect google search.
> >>
> >>Any idea of the origin?
> >

> >"land with (one's) bum in the butter--to experience good luck, fortune,

> >especially after a series of bad circumstances."
> >
> >http://artistwd.com/joyzine/australia/strine/l-2.php#.VJ8L3BFfA
>
> Interesting. It loooks as thought it might not be widely known in
> Austrlia, or it wasn't four years ago.
> http://www.phrases.org.uk/bulletin_board/61/messages/936.html
>
> Land with your bum in the butter
> Posted by Leizl Mowbray on June 17, 2010 at 08:46
>
> I would like to know the origin of the saying 'land with your bum in
> the butter'. I grew up in South Africa, knowing this saying but when
> mentioning it in New Zealand and Australia, it wasn't understood. I
> am sure it is an English saying and would like to know it's meaning
> (so I can explain it more succintly) and origin. Thank you.
>
> --
> Peter Duncanson, UK
> (in alt.usage.english)

It means that you find yourself ,without intent or design ,in a very favourable position ,despite being in an austere economical environment.

[Peter Moylan]

You can say that again.

[kim.h...@gmail.com]

It is a Flemish Dutch expression: "met uw gat in de boter vallen" - to fall in the butter with your bum.
It means getting very lucky or ending up in a very cushy situation.