Accents

[Mack A. Damia]

Dr. Fiona Hill, former presidential advisor to donnie, is testifying
presently in the impeachment hearings, and she was born in County
Durham in Northeast England.

She has put a lot of effort into losing her northern English accent,
but the shades are still there.

In her opening statement, she said that her accent would have "kept
(her) back" in England during the 1980s and 1990s when she was a young
woman, and that's why she emigrated to the USA.

I did research into accepted modes of upward social mobility Contest
(U.S) versus Sponsored (UK). Most of the research came from the 1960s
when the concept of "egalitarianism" was popular.

"Several important differences between the American and English
systems of social control and of education reflect a divergence
between the folk norms governing modes of upward mobility in the two
countries. Under the American norm of contest mobility, elite status
is the prize in an open contest, with every effort made to keep
lagging contestants in the race until the climax. Sponsored mobility,
the English norm, involves controlled selection in which the elite or
their agents choose recruits early and carefully induct them into
elite status. Differences between the American secondary school and
the British system, in the value placed upon education, the content of
education, the system of examinations, the attitude toward students
working, the kind of financial subsidy available to university
students, and the relation of social class to clique formation may be
explained on the basis of this distinction."

https://www.jstor.org/stable/2089982?seq=1/subjects

The "Contest Mode" is fairly obvious. "Under the "Sponsored Mode",
elite recruits are chosen by the established elite or their agents,
and elite status is given on the basis of some criterion of supposed
merit and *cannot* be taken by any amount of effort or strategy.
Upward mobility in like entry into a private club where each candidate
must be "sponsored" by one or more of the members."

One of the salient characteristics of the "sponsored mode" is its
emphasis on accent and pronunciation. Credentials must be highly
visible. "The great importance of accent and of grammatical
excellence in the attainment of high status in England as contrasted
with the twangs and drawls and grammatical ineptitude among American
elites is the most striking example of the difference."

Question: Is this structure still prevalent in England?

[Spains Harden]

Yes. Soft Irish or Welsh - and certainly Scottish - accents can be an
advantage. Maybe you can get away with other soft accents, but you are
never going to get away with broad Geordie, Brum, Scouse or Estuary -
unless you are in the rock-music industries.

I don't recall too many Georgia rednecks making it into the high
corridors of American power? If you are black or Hispanic or have a
drawl, the rock-music industries are your only option there too
aren't they?

[Mack A. Damia]

Jimmy Carter, and listen to a lot of the senators and reps from the
southern states who are in the news now.

[Mack A. Damia]

This just appeared on my Facebook feed:

"Downward mobility 'becoming a reality for much of British youth'."

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2019/nov/21/downward-mobility-a-reality-for-many-british-youngsters-today

[Spains Harden]

The university in the town in which I live in is one of the worst
performing in the country - but it is in one of the most attractive
parts of London, so is enormously popular.

There is a huge local industry sucking students into the area - using
debts that they will never pay off to gain qualifications that
probably won't benefit them.

The Asian model of house-owning: in Asian families all generations live
together. The old look after the very young freeing up all adults of
working age to be out earning. Later on the young are around to look
after the old.

A return to the old days Mack :)

[Mack A. Damia]

Certainly, with the likes of trump on the world's stage, and he
considers himself an "elite". His total facade is one of glamour and
excess. I am curious to know the stats for social mobility in the
USA. I can imagine that they will mirror Britain's. I just sent this
article to my former advisor at Lehigh University where I studied
this.

[Peter T. Daniels]

On Thursday, November 21, 2019 at 11:19:04 AM UTC-5, Spains Harden wrote:

> I don't recall too many Georgia rednecks making it into the high
> corridors of American power?

Do the names Jimmy Carter and Sam Ervin ring a bell? (The latter has
been seen recently because of Watergate Hearings nostalgia.)

[Tony Cooper]

On Thu, 21 Nov 2019 10:57:37 -0800 (PST), Spains Harden
<spains...@yahoo.com> wrote:

>The university in the town in which I live in is one of the worst
>performing in the country - but it is in one of the most attractive
>parts of London, so is enormously popular.
>

I'm not at all sure what your mean by the "The university...is one of
the worst performing".

I would expect something like "The university...is one of the worst in
the area of...". "Area", in that context, is what it is that they are
the worst at. Academics? Graduation rates? Housing? Student
amenities?




--
Tony Cooper - Orlando, Florida

[Spains Harden]

This sort of thing:

<https://www.theguardian.com/education/ng-interactive/2019/jun/07/university-league-tables-2020>

...where I see my local University has struggled up to about midway.
None of those things you have listed matter do they? Whether graduation
rates are 80% or 20%, what really matters is what value an employer
will place on that graduation?

Housing and student amenities are outstanding. This is a huge local
industry drawing in thousands of young people - all trying to get a
foothold in London. The Halls of Residence are beyond comparison and
must be great fun to party in. Whether the three years and £60K*
is time and money well spent, who knows.

Three students I know who have graduated in the past couple of years
are now assistant pharmacist, warehouse-person and supermarket worker
respectively.

*Interest rates at 5.4% make this an underestimate rather than an
overestimate.

[Athel Cornish-Bowden]

Come on Peter; this is 'Arrison you're asking.


--
athel

[Peter T. Daniels]

I had to say something as you hadn't weighed in yet. The 'Arrison Watch is
pretty much your bailiwick.

[Spains Harden]

Let's examine that massive list. Jimmy Carter (educated in
Maryland?) - his Acceptance Speech:

<https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ejZW9v4a9YQ>

Not much of a drawl there. I'm sure that when in Plains he slips back
into the old twang - but it is common sense that if you speak English
using an accent nobody can understand...erm...nobody will be able to
understand you.

<https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ejZW9v4a9YQ>

[Spains Harden]

On Thursday, November 21, 2019 at 9:17:22 PM UTC, Peter T. Daniels wrote:

Sam Ervin I'll give you. It is well known that every rule needs an
exception to prove it :)

[Peter T. Daniels]

On Sunday, November 24, 2019 at 7:32:08 AM UTC-5, Spains Harden wrote:
> On Thursday, November 21, 2019 at 9:17:22 PM UTC, Peter T. Daniels wrote:
> > On Thursday, November 21, 2019 at 11:19:04 AM UTC-5, Spains Harden wrote:
> >
> > > I don't recall too many Georgia rednecks making it into the high
> > > corridors of American power?
> >
> > Do the names Jimmy Carter and Sam Ervin ring a bell? (The latter has
> > been seen recently because of Watergate Hearings nostalgia.)
>
> Let's examine that massive list. Jimmy Carter (educated in
> Maryland?) - his Acceptance Speech:

One's accent gets set in one's middle teens or earlier, when one first
has the opportunity to choose one's own social group. Annapolis is not
far from Baltimore, and President Carter certainly exhibits no traces
of the distinctive Baltimore accent (or, even more so, the even more
distinctive accent of the fairly isolated territory east of Chesapeake
Bay).

> <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ejZW9v4a9YQ>
>
> Not much of a drawl there.

I see 'Arrison is incredibly dialect-deaf. The very first word is r-less,
"faw mahself." A moment later, "thank" has a centering off-glide on what
in most dialects is a short pure vowel.

> I'm sure that when in Plains he slips back
> into the old twang - but it is common sense that if you speak English
> using an accent nobody can understand...erm...nobody will be able to
> understand you.
>
> <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ejZW9v4a9YQ>

Why the same link twice?

[Mack A. Damia]

"Dang it! Politicians with Southern accents seen as less honest, less
intelligent, CofC study finds"

https://www.postandcourier.com/politics/dang-it-politicians-with-southern-accents-seen-as-less-honest/article_b34fd4a4-3ce9-11e8-8de0-cfc414f8e023.html

[Mack A. Damia]

On Sun, 24 Nov 2019 04:32:05 -0800 (PST), Spains Harden

Check out John Kennedy from Louisiana.

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/sen-john-kennedy-slams-pelosi-for-using-impeachment-as-a-routine-political-weapon

[Spains Harden]

Yup, that's a good, heavy, Southern drawl.

[Spains Harden]

Any Questions? Jonathan Dimbleby has gone and has been replaced by
Chris Mason - who claims to have a Yorkshire accent - and says (in
today's London Times P5) that his accent has been an advantage to
him at the BBC.

The first episode of Any Questions? had (to my ears) a proud and
distinctive Scottish accent, and no others that I could discern.
Mason also singles out West Country, Brummie and Geordie as accents
you *never* hear from news presenters. Whatever happened to Gus
Honeybun?

On a school break long ago I worked with a proper Yorkshireman
who'd say "Pass t'shuffle" - which I invite you to translate.

[Peter Young]

On 26 Nov 2019 Spains Harden <spains...@yahoo.com> wrote:

[snip]

> On a school break long ago I worked with a proper Yorkshireman
> who'd say "Pass t'shuffle" - which I invite you to translate.

Did he also say "put t'wood in t'ole" like some of my Yorkshire school
friends did?

Peter.

--
Peter Young, (BrE, RP), Consultant Anaesthetist, 1975-2004.
(US equivalent: Certified Anesthesiologist) (AUE Hg)
Cheltenham and Gloucester, UK. Now happily retired.
http://pnyoung.orpheusweb.co.uk

[Mack A. Damia]

On Tue, 26 Nov 2019 16:28:11 GMT, Peter Young <pny...@ormail.co.uk>
wrote:

>On 26 Nov 2019 Spains Harden <spains...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>[snip]
>
>> On a school break long ago I worked with a proper Yorkshireman
>> who'd say "Pass t'shuffle" - which I invite you to translate.
>
>Did he also say "put t'wood in t'ole" like some of my Yorkshire school
>friends did?

On Ilkley Moor baht 'at?