aye carumba
howard richler
there, or was it used previously?
Tony Cooper
"howard richler" <hric...@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
news:feb755de.02061...@posting.google.com...
> Did the expression "aye carumba" used on The Simpsons originate
> there, or was it used previously?
The phrase certainly didn't originate with the Simpsons. I remember an
animated cartoon when I was a kid with a character - a chicken, I
think - that used to say that. Senor something?
--
Tony Cooper aka: Tony_Co...@Yahoo.com
Provider of Jots & Tittles
Tony Cooper
"Tony Cooper" <tony_co...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:aeh7sd$71b6b$1...@ID-113505.news.dfncis.de...
>
> "howard richler" <hric...@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> news:feb755de.02061...@posting.google.com...
> > Did the expression "aye carumba" used on The Simpsons originate
> > there, or was it used previously?
>
> The phrase certainly didn't originate with the Simpsons. I remember
an
> animated cartoon when I was a kid with a character - a chicken, I
> think - that used to say that. Senor something?
Just thought of it....Speedy Gonzales, a mouse in a sombrero. Ay!
Caramba!
Maria Conlon
Tony Cooper wrote
>Tony Cooper wrote
>>howard richler wrote
>> > Did the expression "aye carumba" used on The Simpsons originate
>> > there, or was it used previously?
>> The phrase certainly didn't originate with the Simpsons. I remember
>an
>> animated cartoon when I was a kid with a character - a chicken, I
>> think - that used to say that. Senor something?
>Just thought of it....Speedy Gonzales, a mouse in a sombrero. Ay!
>Caramba!
I think I remember that, but didn't Ricky Ricardo say the same thing?
Maria
R H Draney
news:feb755de.02061...@posting.google.com:
> Did the expression "aye carumba" used on The Simpsons originate
> there, or was it used previously?
It should be spelled "，y caramba!", although the opening inverted
exclamation mark can be omitted if your typesetter objects...it's a
legitimate expression of dismay in Spanish and probably goes back to
the days of the Moorish occupation of Castile, if not farther...I
don't have a definite date for its appearance in English, but Carmen
Miranda might have helped to popularize it; it was certainly already
in use by the mid-1960s, long before "The Simpsons"...in fact, the
first time I heard Bart using it, I thought it sounded anachronistic,
like a rapper prefacing a statement with "by cracky" or "jumpin'
Jehoshaphat!"...r
Jitze Couperus
wrote:
>Did the expression "aye carumba" used on The Simpsons originate
>there, or was it used previously?
I well remember when I first heard this expression - it was around
1960 and was uttered by an American pilot of Cuban extraction
who was flying for Air America. (At the time I was unaware of
this outfit's provenance.) I was helping with visual navigation
from the co-seat of a DC3 looking for a local landing strip
where we were supposed to pick up some Belgian missionaries.
We hit a nasty air pocket at low altitude just as the port engine
started missing and blowing smoke.
What I remember vividly is that he alternated "Madre de Dios"
and "Ay Caramba!" in repetitive sequence while jockeying
various controls in a bravura performance. These things stick
with you a long time.
We made it down safely, but the engine and my underwear
both required unscheduled maintenance.
Jitze
Reinhold (Rey) Aman
[...]
> It should be spelled "，y caramba!", although the opening inverted
> exclamation mark can be omitted if your typesetter objects...it's a
> legitimate expression of dismay in Spanish
[...]
Few non-Spanish-speaking users of this exclamation know that "caramba"
is a euphemism for "carajo" ('prick,' 'cock'). Real Men like me
exclaim "，y carajo!"
--
Reinhold (Rey) Aman
*Palabrotista*
Raymond S. Wise
"Reinhold (Rey) Aman" <am...@sonic.net> wrote in message
news:3D0C4B4D...@sonic.net...
> R H Draney wrote:
>
> [...]
>
> > exclamation mark can be omitted if your typesetter objects...it's a
> > legitimate expression of dismay in Spanish
>
> [...]
>
> Few non-Spanish-speaking users of this exclamation know that "caramba"
> is a euphemism for "carajo" ('prick,' 'cock'). Real Men like me
>
> --
> Reinhold (Rey) Aman
> *Palabrotista*
I researched it in late 2001 and posted the following to alt.usage.english:
[quote from Usenet post]
[A "caramba"] was an "ancient adornment
for women's hair," as it says in _Simon and Schuster's International
Dictionary, English/Spanish, Spanish/English. New York: Simon and
Schuster, (C) 1973.
I took a look at the _Diccionario de la Lengua Española,_ Madrid: Real
Academia Española, (C) 1984, that is, the dictionary of the Royal
Spanish Academy:
[quote]
*caramba1.* (De _Caramba,_ n. p.) f. Moña que llevaban las mujeres
sobre la cofia, a fines del siglo XVIII.
[end quote]
[my translation (using a Spanish-English dictionary, I don't speak
Spanish)]
*caramba1.* (From _Caramba,_ proper name) feminine noun. Ribbon worn
by women on top of their coif, at the end of the 18th century.
[end translation]
[end of quote from Usenet post]
A poster replying to my message checked the 1992 edition of the Royal
Spanish Acadamy's dictionary, and found that "caramba" had by then been
given a second entry for the interjection, which the dictionary acknowledged
as being a euphemism for "carajo."
I take it that it was a simple substitution of a taboo word with a non-taboo
word which shared some of the same pronunciation, like "shoot" for "shit."
--
Raymond S. Wise
Minneapolis, Minnesota USA
E-mail: mplsray @ yahoo . com
Kevin Plumley
I was given to understand that it originated in 'carambolas' which,
besides being a smooth, round edible fruit of tart flavour, is also a
billiards or snooker shot, which came from 'caram las bolas', if I
understood what that implied, with wagged eyebrows. Uh, sure.
Generally it is a very decent language of generally a very decent
people.
>
John Dean
> hric...@sympatico.ca (howard richler) wrote in
> news:feb755de.02061...@posting.google.com:
>
>> Did the expression "aye carumba" used on The Simpsons originate
>> there, or was it used previously?
>
> It should be spelled "，y caramba!", although the opening inverted
> exclamation mark can be omitted if your typesetter objects...it's a
> legitimate expression of dismay in Spanish and probably goes back to
> the days of the Moorish occupation of Castile, if not farther...
My Spanish-English Dic. says - caramba = gosh! (which engenders suspicion on
my part that there's rather more to it)
--
John Dean
Oxford
De-frag to reply
John Varela
wrote:
> Speedy Gonzales, a mouse in a sombrero.
And before he was a mouse, he was the protagonist of a series of dirty jokes
about "Speedy Gonzales, the fastest man in all Mexico" (pronounced in what
was supposed to be a Mexican accent). Sadly, I don't remember any of the
jokes, but I do recall being amazed when Speedy appeared as the hero of
children's cartoons.
--
John Varela
John Varela
> the
> first time I heard Bart using it, I thought it sounded anachronistic,
> like a rapper prefacing a statement with "by cracky" or "jumpin'
> Jehoshaphat!"
Indeed. Circa 1980 I made several dozen business trips to South and Central
America and Mexico, and in all those trips I heard the expression used
exactly once.
On the other hand, "Ay!" alone as an exclamation is more or less equivalent
to English "Ouch!"
--
John Varela
R J Valentine
} "Tony Cooper" <tony_co...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
} news:aeh7sd$71b6b$1...@ID-113505.news.dfncis.de...
}>
}> "howard richler" <hric...@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
}> news:feb755de.02061...@posting.google.com...
}> > Did the expression "aye carumba" used on The Simpsons originate
}> > there, or was it used previously?
}>
}> The phrase certainly didn't originate with the Simpsons. I remember an
}> animated cartoon when I was a kid with a character - a chicken, I
}> think - that used to say that. Senor something?
}
} Just thought of it....Speedy Gonzales, a mouse in a sombrero. Ay!
} Caramba!
Seems like it was used on _The Cisco Kid_ (between 1950 and 1956,
according to my trusty old _Complete Directory to Prime Time Network TV
Shows: 1946 - Present ["present" being 1981 in my copy]). I think it was
Cisco's sidekick Pancho who (TCE: "that") used it. I'm not saying that
that was the first use, but I suspect it was before Speedy Gonzales the
mouse was popular.
I don't know when the Spanish-like version of "A Visit from Saint
Nicholas" came out, but it started something like "'Twas the night before
Christmas and all through the casa Not a creature was stirring. Caramba!
Que Pasa!"
--
R. J. Valentine <mailto:r...@smart.net>
Bob Stahl
> Did the expression "aye carumba" used on The Simpsons
> originate there, or was it used previously?
Two or three Spaniards, who stood upon the beach looking
at us, wrapped their cloaks about them, shook their heads,
and muttered "Caramba!"
- Richard Henry Dana, Jr., Two Years before the Mast (1840)
"Ah, Caramba! What are you, little one?" Seeing that her
guest still looked puzzled, she continued,--"Ah! Mother
of God! Why are your friends so polite to you?
- Bret Harte, The Crusade of the Excelsior (1887)
Open-eyed, open-mouthed, she stared at the tide of foaming
steeds, like a maiden martyr gazing at the on-rushing
waves of ocean! "Caramba!" said Marmalada, "voila une
jeune fille pas trop bien gardee!" Giovanelli turned pale,
and, muttering Corpo di Bacco, quaffed a carafon of green
Chartreuse, holding at least a quart, which stood by him
in its native pewter. Young Ponto merely muttered, "Egad!"
I leaped through the open window and landed at her feet.
- Andrew Lang, Old Friends - Essays in Epistolary Parody
(1890)
"Caramba!" he said, "whom have we here? Senor Thomas
Wingfield I salute you. Look, my comrades, you see this
young man whom the sea has brought to us. He is no
Spaniard but an English spy."
- H. Rider Haggard, Montezuma's Daughter (1893)
(from Project Gutenberg etexts)
--
Bob Stahl
Tony Cooper
> }> The phrase certainly didn't originate with the Simpsons. I
remember an
> }> animated cartoon when I was a kid with a character - a chicken, I
> }> think - that used to say that. Senor something?
> }
> } Just thought of it....Speedy Gonzales, a mouse in a sombrero. Ay!
> } Caramba! (Cooper)
>
> Seems like it was used on _The Cisco Kid_ (between 1950 and 1956,
> according to my trusty old _Complete Directory to Prime Time Network
TV
> Shows: 1946 - Present ["present" being 1981 in my copy]). I think it
was
> Cisco's sidekick Pancho who (TCE: "that") used it. I'm not saying
that
> that was the first use, but I suspect it was before Speedy Gonzales
the
> mouse was popular.
I have no idea where the phrase originated. I just remember Speedy
Gonzales from the cartoons. Speedy debuted in 1953, by the way.
I never liked the Cisco Kid shows. I never really cared for any of the
Westerns. Gene Autry was the worst, though. The least-worst might have
been Lash LaRue. Funny, but "Lash LaRue" was such a great name then,
but now you'd expect a person with that name to be the headliner at a
S&M or Bondage review.
I once jumped from a fence onto a horse in imitation of the way cowboys
did it in the movies. Wow! Believe me, those stunts where they jump
off the balcony of the saloon onto a horse are filmed with foam rubber
horses or by guys wearing titanium underwear.
--
Tony Cooper aka: Tony_Co...@Yahoo.com
Provider of Jots & Tittles
Raymond S. Wise
"Bob Stahl" <urbul...@pacbell.net> wrote in message
news:0MeP8.633$SN2.36...@newssvr13.news.prodigy.com...
> howard richler:
> > Did the expression "aye carumba" used on The Simpsons
> > originate there, or was it used previously?
>
> Two or three Spaniards, who stood upon the beach looking
> at us, wrapped their cloaks about them, shook their heads,
> and muttered "Caramba!"
> - Richard Henry Dana, Jr., Two Years before the Mast (1840)
>
[Other examples from Project Gutenberg etexts snipped]
A Google search turns up that Hergé had several Spanish-speaking characters
say "Caramba! in his Tintin adventures.
Donna Richoux
[snip multiple results like:]
>
> "Caramba!" he said, "whom have we here? Senor Thomas
> Wingfield I salute you. Look, my comrades, you see this
> young man whom the sea has brought to us. He is no
> Spaniard but an English spy."
> - H. Rider Haggard, Montezuma's Daughter (1893)
>
> (from Project Gutenberg etexts)
Cool! How did you do that? I didn't know a person could search across
all their material.
--
Best -- Donna Richoux
John Dean
> "R J Valentine" <r...@smart.net> wrote in message
>
>> }> The phrase certainly didn't originate with the Simpsons. I
>> remember an }> animated cartoon when I was a kid with a character -
>> a chicken, I }> think - that used to say that. Senor something?
>> }
>
> cowboys did it in the movies. Wow! Believe me, those stunts where
> they jump off the balcony of the saloon onto a horse are filmed with
> foam rubber horses or by guys wearing titanium underwear.
You often make me laugh, Tone, but this is the first time you've brought
tears to my eyes.
Lacking horses, my parents provided me with a push-bike. Being a keen
Western fan also being ten years old and dumb as dogshit, I thought I'd
imitate that neat Native American trick where they shoot from under the
horse's neck while hanging onto the saddle with one leg. I still have two
scars on my arm - one of twelve stitches where they went in to fix the break
and one of eight stitches where they went back in two years later to take
out the steel pin which had by then done its work in permitting the bone to
heal.
Ben Zimmer
Bob Stahl wrote:
>
> howard richler:
> > Did the expression "aye carumba" used on The Simpsons
> > originate there, or was it used previously?
>
> Two or three Spaniards, who stood upon the beach looking
> at us, wrapped their cloaks about them, shook their heads,
> and muttered "Caramba!"
> - Richard Henry Dana, Jr., Two Years before the Mast (1840)
> (from Project Gutenberg etexts)
OED has these citations:
-----------
1835 J. H. INGRAHAM South-West I. 139 ‘Sacré diable!’ ‘Carramba!’--fell
upon the ear.
1845 R. FORD Handbk. Trav. Spain I. i. 36 More becoming will it be to
the English gentleman to swear not at all; a reasonable indulgence in
Caramba is all that can be permitted.
1851 H. MELVILLE Moby Dick II. i. 2 Caramba! have done, shipmate, will
ye?
1906 Daily Chron. 3 Jan. 3/4 An obvious villain had snapped ‘caramba!’
at her.
-----------
As for US pop culture references (pre-Simpsons), Barry Manilow had a
musical number called "Ay Caramba" as part of his 1985 TV movie
"Copacabana" (later made into a stage musical).
--Ben
Joona I Palaste
> "Tony Cooper" <tony_co...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:aeh7sd$71b6b$1...@ID-113505.news.dfncis.de...
>> "howard richler" <hric...@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
>> news:feb755de.02061...@posting.google.com...
>> > Did the expression "aye carumba" used on The Simpsons originate
>> > there, or was it used previously?
>>
>> The phrase certainly didn't originate with the Simpsons. I remember
> an
>> animated cartoon when I was a kid with a character - a chicken, I
>> think - that used to say that. Senor something?
> Just thought of it....Speedy Gonzales, a mouse in a sombrero. Ay!
> Caramba!
I remember Speedy Gonzales saying something like "Antane antane, arriba
arriba!" I know "arriba" is a real Spanish word meaning "up" or
something, but is "antane" real Spanish? Or do I misremember?
--
/-- Joona Palaste (pal...@cc.helsinki.fi) ---------------------------\
| Kingpriest of "The Flying Lemon Tree" G++ FR FW+ M- #108 D+ ADA N+++|
| http://www.helsinki.fi/~palaste W++ B OP+ |
\----------------------------------------- Finland rules! ------------/
"You have moved your mouse, for these changes to take effect you must shut down
and restart your computer. Do you want to restart your computer now?"
- Karri Kalpio
GrapeApe
>arriba!" I know "arriba" is a real Spanish word meaning "up" or
>something, but is "antane" real Spanish? Or do I misremember?
Andele Andele Arriba Arriba. Roughly "Onward and upward" Faster, better. Up
and At em. Hurry up, lets go. Whatever.
Arriba means 'above'
What throws the non spanish speaking sort off the trail, is that most web based
interpreting robots, don't have Andele in their vocabulary. Or Andale.
So someone is wrong. But Adele and andale seem to be the most common spellings
associated with this phrase.
Some have suggested Andare, perhaps a verb for walk. Others have suggested
some sort of pidgin spanish-english, on delez might mean 'no delay'. I have no
idea, I can't find an official Spanish-English translation of Andele.
Pat Durkin
"Joona I Palaste" <pal...@cc.helsinki.fi> wrote in message
news:aemojd$pm6$1...@oravannahka.helsinki.fi...
> Tony Cooper <tony_co...@yahoo.com> scribbled the following:
> > "Tony Cooper" <tony_co...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> > news:aeh7sd$71b6b$1...@ID-113505.news.dfncis.de...
> >> "howard richler" <hric...@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> >> news:feb755de.02061...@posting.google.com...
> >> > Did the expression "aye carumba" used on The Simpsons originate
> >> > there, or was it used previously?
> >>
> >> The phrase certainly didn't originate with the Simpsons. I
remember
> > an
> >> animated cartoon when I was a kid with a character - a chicken, I
> >> think - that used to say that. Senor something?
>
> > Just thought of it....Speedy Gonzales, a mouse in a sombrero. Ay!
> > Caramba!
>
> I remember Speedy Gonzales saying something like "Antane antane,
arriba
> arriba!" I know "arriba" is a real Spanish word meaning "up" or
> something, but is "antane" real Spanish? Or do I misremember?
ándale, ándale! (Diccionario.com says it is a Mexican expression). It
means Hurry, Hurry, or Get a move on! or Now! or Lets Go!
(Este carro no anda= "this car doesn't function", or run,or work, or
even walk). Anda in some usage is a synonym for camina.
Arriba means Up! ( up with (hooray for) our side. A cheer.) but also:
Alert! Wake up! Get up!
Pat Durkin
"Pat Durkin" <p...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:ugube9s...@corp.supernews.com...
>
> "Joona I Palaste" <pal...@cc.helsinki.fi> wrote in message
> news:aemojd$pm6$1...@oravannahka.helsinki.fi...
>
> ándale, ándale! (Diccionario.com says it is a Mexican expression).
Sorry, I have a link to the Diccionario on my browser, thanks to someone
here. The true link to obtain the diccionario button is :
http://www.rae.es/
la Real Academia Española
Still, the entire dictionary is in Spanish (not Spanish-English, etc.).
I don't have the diacritics for the accent marks, etc. so I had to type
in the verb "andar", rather than andale, because without the accent,
andale is not a word the dictionary recognizes.
GrapeApe
>means Hurry, Hurry, or Get a move on! or Now! or Lets Go!
>(Este carro no anda= "this car doesn't function", or run,or work, or
>even walk).
Is an online dictionary a bit useless if it doesn't suggest a possible match?
The only reason I have never been able to find this word in an online
dictionary, or with translation sites, is that I have used andale rather than
ándale.
Luis Mona
Andale is a mexicanism and comes from the verb andar (to move, to
walk. to go)
andale means hurry up, lets go, go ahead, do it now, that's it,
but you only use it when you are talking to other or others persons,
so there are only 3 conjugations: Andale(2nd person), andele (2nd
person formal), andeles(2nd person plural), so you can say that it is
a conjugation without a verb.
There are other mexicanisms that also add "le", like orale, from
hora(hour),
Note that there is a famous song in the radio called "E.I" from Nelly?
in wich the main line says something like "andale, andale, mami, E.I,
E.I, uuuh ooohh"
Evan Kirshenbaum
> There are other mexicanisms that also add "le", like orale, from
> hora(hour),
Not from "orar"? The RAE Diccionario de la Lengua Española does't
give an etymology, but defines it as
órale.
1. interj. coloq. Méx. U. para exhortar.
(Interestingly, unlike "ándale", this one is searchable without the
accent. Go figure.) "Orar" is
orar. (Del lat. orare).
1. intr. Hacer oración a Dios, vocal o mentalmente.
2. intr. Hablar en público para persuadir y convencer a los
oyentes o mover su ánimo.
3. tr. Rogar, pedir, suplicar.
I'm not sure just what "órale" is supposed to exhort, but if it's on
the order of "Preach it!", then I'd have guessed that it comes from
"orar", sense 2.
--
Evan Kirshenbaum +------------------------------------
HP Laboratories |If all else fails, embarrass the
1501 Page Mill Road, 1U, MS 1141 |industry into doing the right
Palo Alto, CA 94304 |thing.
| Dean Thompson
kirsh...@hpl.hp.com
(650)857-7572
Luis Mona
> luis...@volcanomail.com (Luis Mona) writes:
>
> > There are other mexicanisms that also add "le", like orale, from
> > hora(hour),
>
> Not from "orar"? The RAE Diccionario de la Lengua Española does't
> give an etymology, but defines it as
>
> órale.
> 1. interj. coloq. Méx. U. para exhortar.
I'm not sure "orale" has anything to do with "orar"(to pray).
It may come from ahora(now) or hora(hour).
It's common to hear people say "ora" instead of "ahora"; instead of
saying "ahora es cuando"(now is the time) they say "ora es cuando".
You also hear "ora pues" or "orale pues"
Orale and andale have very similar meanings, both can mean "hurry up"
Evan Kirshenbaum
> Evan Kirshenbaum <kirsh...@hpl.hp.com> wrote in message
> > luis...@volcanomail.com (Luis Mona) writes:
> >
> > > There are other mexicanisms that also add "le", like orale, from
> > > hora(hour),
> >
> > Not from "orar"? The RAE Diccionario de la Lengua Española does't
> > give an etymology, but defines it as
> >
> > órale.
> > 1. interj. coloq. Méx. U. para exhortar.
>
> I'm not sure "orale" has anything to do with "orar"(to pray). It
> may come from ahora(now) or hora(hour). It's common to hear people
> say "ora" instead of "ahora"; instead of saying "ahora es
> cuando"(now is the time) they say "ora es cuando". You also hear
> "ora pues" or "orale pues" Orale and andale have very similar
> meanings, both can mean "hurry up"
Thanks. I wasn't familiar with the word, and I wasn't sure whether
what as being exhortado was action or speech. If the latter, sense 2
of "orar" seemed to be more "preach" than "pray", and there is an
phrase ("preach it") in English, but that is an exhoration to keep
speaking because the one using it agrees with you.
Even accepting the reduction of "ahora" to "ora", which seems
perfectly reasonable and likely, it seems strange (although I, of
course, lack native speaker intuitions) to see an adverb inflected as
a verb like that. Was there perhaps an intermediate "ahorar"? the
RAE Diccionario doesn't list one.
Luis Mona
>
> Even accepting the reduction of "ahora" to "ora", which seems
> perfectly reasonable and likely, it seems strange (although I, of
> course, lack native speaker intuitions) to see an adverb inflected as
> a verb like that. Was there perhaps an intermediate "ahorar"? the
> RAE Diccionario doesn't list one.
>
But "orale" is not a verb, it is an "in between" word, most of the
time it just means "O.K" or "thats it" or even "hurry up".
Even more strange is "andale"(hurry up)
In Spanish you add "le" to verbs as a command
"dar"(to give), "dale"(give to him)
"pagar"(to pay), "pagale"(pay to him)
but with "andar"(to walk) and "andale" that doesn't work.
"andale", "orale", "hijole"(damn!) are strange "le" mexicanisms
Evan Kirshenbaum
> Evan Kirshenbaum <kirsh...@hpl.hp.com> wrote in message
>
> > Even accepting the reduction of "ahora" to "ora", which seems
> > perfectly reasonable and likely, it seems strange (although I, of
> > course, lack native speaker intuitions) to see an adverb inflected
> > as a verb like that. Was there perhaps an intermediate "ahorar"?
> > the RAE Diccionario doesn't list one.
>
> But "orale" is not a verb, it is an "in between" word, most of the
> time it just means "O.K" or "thats it" or even "hurry up".
>
> Even more strange is "andale"(hurry up)
> In Spanish you add "le" to verbs as a command
> "dar"(to give), "dale"(give to him)
> "pagar"(to pay), "pagale"(pay to him)
> but with "andar"(to walk) and "andale" that doesn't work.
>
> "andale", "orale", "hijole"(damn!) are strange "le" mexicanisms
Really? I had thought it was a reflexive "andarse", "move yourself".
It's been a while (my god, twenty years!) since I took Spanish, but I
thought that using the reflexive imperative was common in
constructions like this. My memory could be completely wrong, of
course.
--
Evan Kirshenbaum +------------------------------------
HP Laboratories |Society in every state is a blessing,
1501 Page Mill Road, 1U, MS 1141 |but government, even in its best
Palo Alto, CA 94304 |state is but a necessary evil; in its
|worst state, an intolerable one.
kirsh...@hpl.hp.com | Thomas Paine
(650)857-7572
Christopher Green
> luis...@volcanomail.com (Luis Mona) writes:
>
> > Evan Kirshenbaum <kirsh...@hpl.hp.com> wrote in message
> >
> > > Even accepting the reduction of "ahora" to "ora", which seems
> > > perfectly reasonable and likely, it seems strange (although I, of
> > > course, lack native speaker intuitions) to see an adverb inflected
> > > as a verb like that. Was there perhaps an intermediate "ahorar"?
> > > the RAE Diccionario doesn't list one.
> >
> > But "orale" is not a verb, it is an "in between" word, most of the
> > time it just means "O.K" or "thats it" or even "hurry up".
> >
> > Even more strange is "andale"(hurry up)
> > In Spanish you add "le" to verbs as a command
> > "dar"(to give), "dale"(give to him)
> > "pagar"(to pay), "pagale"(pay to him)
> > but with "andar"(to walk) and "andale" that doesn't work.
> >
> > "andale", "orale", "hijole"(damn!) are strange "le" mexicanisms
>
> Really? I had thought it was a reflexive "andarse", "move yourself".
> It's been a while (my god, twenty years!) since I took Spanish, but I
> thought that using the reflexive imperative was common in
> constructions like this. My memory could be completely wrong, of
> course.
The way I hear people say it, it's "andate"; "andale" is from Speedy
Gonzales cartoons. "Andale" could be second person formal, but it's so
peremptory that I wouldn't use it formally, I'd use "pasele".
--
Chris Green