Primary, Secondary - then what
Hugh Hoskins
After "primary" & "secondary", what are the correct words/terms for
3-rd, 4-th, 5-th order/level?
How might these be derived?
Thanks,,, Hugh E-Mail preferred to htho...@earthlink.net
Albert Marshall
David Carson <david...@neosoft.com> wrote
>On Fri, 30 May 1997 20:31:30 -0700, Hugh Hoskins <htho...@earthlink.net>
>wrote:
>
>>After "primary" & "secondary", what are the correct words/terms for
>>3-rd, 4-th, 5-th order/level?
>>How might these be derived?
>
>4th - quaternary
>
I believe:
5th - quinquernary
6th - sexternary
7th - septernary
I *think* they follow the series of Latin ordinals, but I subscribe to
David's note as quoted below.
>Note to Greek and Latin scholars: I do not claim that these words are all
>derived consistently and logically from the same language. I do not claim that
>these are the best possible words from an etymological viewpoint.
--
Albert Marshall
Executive French
Language Training for Businesses in Kent
01634 400902
Bob Cunningham
david...@neosoft.com (David Carson) said:
>On Fri, 30 May 1997 20:31:30 -0700, Hugh Hoskins <htho...@earthlink.net>
>wrote:
>
>>After "primary" & "secondary", what are the correct words/terms for
>>3-rd, 4-th, 5-th order/level?
>>How might these be derived?
>
>3rd - tertiary
>4th - quaternary
>
>Note to Greek and Latin scholars: I do not claim that these words are all
>derived consistently and logically from the same language. I do not claim that
>these are the best possible words from an etymological viewpoint. I simply
>claim that they are known and accepted in English usage and are in the
>dictionary.
And are used by scientists to refer to periods of geological time. I've
sometimes idly wondered, though, given that "tertiary" is the period
starting 67 million years ago with the paleocene epoch, and "quaternary"
is the period starting two million years ago with the pleistocene epoch,
why do I never see references to primary or secondary periods?
I suppose Hugh Hoskins is still waiting to learn the word for the fifth
level. Me too.
Aaron J. Dinkin
In article <338F9B...@earthlink.net>, Hugh Hoskins
<htho...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>After "primary" & "secondary", what are the correct words/terms for
>3-rd, 4-th, 5-th order/level?
>How might these be derived?
Third is "tertiary", following the pattern of the Latin words "primus",
"secundus", "tertius", meaning "first", "second", and "third".
Unfortunately, the progession falls apart at number four, which is probably
"quaternary", and that comes from "quaterni", meaning "four at a time".
("Fourth" is "quartus", which ought to lead to "quartary".) I don't think
there is a fifth member of this series in common use. "Quinary"?
"Quintary"?
-Aaron J. Dinkin
Dr. Whom
Lars Eighner
In our last episode <adinkin-ya0231800...@news.usa1.com>,
the lovely and talented adi...@commschool.org (Aaron J. Dinkin)
broadcast on sci.lang,alt.usage.english:
I thought it was "quartic" and "quintic," but for the sixth and seventh
degree, I don't find a hint.
--
Lars Eighner= http://www.io.com/%7Eeighner = http://www.crl.com/%7Eeighner =
12550 Vista View #302 (210)979-7124 eig...@crl.com eig...@io.com ==
San Antonio TX 78231 alt.books.lars-eighner "At better ISPs everywhere"=
============================================================================
Paul Sampson
Lars Eighner wrote:
> In our last episode <adinkin-ya0231800...@news.usa1.com>,
> the lovely and talented adi...@commschool.org (Aaron J. Dinkin)
> broadcast on sci.lang,alt.usage.english:
> |In article <338F9B...@earthlink.net>, Hugh Hoskins
> |<htho...@earthlink.net> wrote:
> |>After "primary" & "secondary", what are the correct words/terms for
> |>3-rd, 4-th, 5-th order/level?
> |>How might these be derived?
> |Third is "tertiary", following the pattern of the Latin words "primus",
> |"secundus", "tertius", meaning "first", "second", and "third".
> |Unfortunately, the progession falls apart at number four, which is probably
> |"quaternary", and that comes from "quaterni", meaning "four at a time".
> |("Fourth" is "quartus", which ought to lead to "quartary".) I don't think
> |there is a fifth member of this series in common use. "Quinary"?
> |"Quintary"?
> I thought it was "quartic" and "quintic," but for the sixth and seventh
> degree, I don't find a hint.
That probably won't do - they'd go (analogously) with ?unic, ?secundic and
?treic.
Just to add to the confusion - polynomial degrees, counting backwards
from the above (a quintic equation involves a power of 5) you'd get
quintic, quartic, cubic (oh dear), quadratic (yow!), linear (oh sod it I
give up) equations.
> ...
Whoever said 'tertiary' (the quoting depth markings seem to have gone a
bit awry, so it may not have been Mr Hoskins) is correct.
--
paul.s...@onyx.net -- Vox(+44)1642-216-200 -- Fax(+44)1642-216-201
Onyx Internet -- Exchange Square -- Middlesbrough -- Cleveland -- TS1 1DE
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All Unsolicited Commercial Email is forwarded to appropriate authorities.
No business will be done with its transmitter for a minimum of six years.
Keith C. Ivey
Paul Sampson <paul.s...@onyx.net> wrote:
>Just to add to the confusion - polynomial degrees, counting backwards
>from the above (a quintic equation involves a power of 5) you'd get
>quintic, quartic, cubic (oh dear), quadratic (yow!), linear (oh sod it I
>give up) equations.
Don't forget unary, binary, ternary/trinary, quaternary,
quinary, sexenary, septenary, octonary, novenary (some of those
last I just made up), which come mostly from the Latin words for
"N at a time".
[followups set to alt.usage.english only]
Keith C. Ivey <kci...@cpcug.org> Washington, DC
Contributing Editor/Webmaster
The Editorial Eye <http://www.eeicom.com/eye/>
Earle Jones
>In our last episode <adinkin-ya0231800...@news.usa1.com>,
>the lovely and talented adi...@commschool.org (Aaron J. Dinkin)
>broadcast on sci.lang,alt.usage.english:
>|In article <338F9B...@earthlink.net>, Hugh Hoskins
>|<htho...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>|
>|>After "primary" & "secondary", what are the correct words/terms for
>|>3-rd, 4-th, 5-th order/level?
[.....]
>I thought it was "quartic" and "quintic," but for the sixth and seventh
>degree, I don't find a hint.
--
In mathematics, polynomials are:
linear (first degree)
quadratic (second degree)
cubic (etc.)
quartic
quintic
Sixth degree? I haven't the faintest. Hexic?
earle
--
__
__/\_\
/\_\/_/
\/_/\_\ earle
\/_/ jones
O.Det
Earle Jones wrote:
>
> In article <PLmkzAwZ...@crl.com>, eig...@crl.com (Lars Eighner) wrote:
>
> >In our last episode <adinkin-ya0231800...@news.usa1.com>,
> >the lovely and talented adi...@commschool.org (Aaron J. Dinkin)
> >broadcast on sci.lang,alt.usage.english:
> >|In article <338F9B...@earthlink.net>, Hugh Hoskins
> >|<htho...@earthlink.net> wrote:
> >|
> >|>After "primary" & "secondary", what are the correct words/terms for
> >|>3-rd, 4-th, 5-th order/level?
The only one I know is "tertiary" (sp?). After that, I sort-of
make-up variations on "quartiary, quintiary, sectiary", etc.
> >I thought it was "quartic" and "quintic," but for the sixth and seventh
> >degree, I don't find a hint.
>
> --
>
> In mathematics, polynomials are:
>
> linear (first degree)
> quadratic (second degree)
> cubic (etc.)
> quartic
> quintic
>
> Sixth degree? I haven't the faintest. Hexic?
This is different. "Linear" is the primary polynomial,
quadratic the secondary, cubic the tertiary, etc...
Earle Jones
In article <339C4A...@deletespam.netcom.com>, ol...@deletespam.netcom.com
wrote:
>Earle Jones wrote:
>>
>> In article <PLmkzAwZ...@crl.com>, eig...@crl.com (Lars Eighner) wrote:
>>
>> >In our last episode <adinkin-ya0231800...@news.usa1.com>,
>> >the lovely and talented adi...@commschool.org (Aaron J. Dinkin)
>> >broadcast on sci.lang,alt.usage.english:
>> >|In article <338F9B...@earthlink.net>, Hugh Hoskins
>> >|<htho...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>> >|
[.....]
--
Earle Jones wrote this:
>> In mathematics, polynomials are:
>>
>> linear (first degree)
>> quadratic (second degree)
>> cubic (etc.)
>> quartic
>> quintic
>>
>> Sixth degree? I haven't the faintest. Hexic?
Somebody else wrote this:
> This is different. "Linear" is the primary polynomial,
> quadratic the secondary, cubic the tertiary, etc...
Yes, yes, keep going!
In mathematics, a first-degree polynomial is called linear. I have never
in my mathematics teaching / engineering career heard such a polynomial
called a "primary polynomial".
In mathematics, a second-degree polynomial is called quadratic. I have
never in my mathematics teaching / engineering career heard such a
polynomial called a "secondary polynomial".
In mathematics, a third-degree polynomial is called cubic. I have never in
my mathematics teaching / engineering career heard such a polynomial called
a "tertiary polynomial".
I think you get the drift.
Anyway, to get back to the thread, what are the next members of the series:
primary
secondary
tertiary
quaternary (?)
??
??
??
Jonathan Potter
In article <5ni2e0$i...@agate.berkeley.edu>, co...@euler.Berkeley.EDU (Coby (Jacob) Lubliner) wrote:
>These go back to Latin. The next term should be octary, but
>some 20th-century mathematician, without the benefit of classics,
>coined "octal" instead.
In that case wouldn't it be "binary" instead of "secondary"?
Jon
Jonathan Potter
Left Side Software
Remove ? from email address to reply to this message.
Stuart Robinson
Aren't there three series?
first
second
third
etc.
primary
secondary
tertiary
quaternary
unitary
binary
?
In article <5nila2$2...@kosh.fl.net.au>, jpotter@?lss.com.au (Jonathan
Potter) wrote:
> In article <5ni2e0$i...@agate.berkeley.edu>, co...@euler.Berkeley.EDU
(Coby (Jacob) Lubliner) wrote:
> >These go back to Latin. The next term should be octary, but
> >some 20th-century mathematician, without the benefit of classics,
> >coined "octal" instead.
>
> In that case wouldn't it be "binary" instead of "secondary"?
--
Stuart Robinson <Stuart....@anu.edu.au>
The Australian National University
Curtis Cameron
My sister, who works in the marketing department for a major hospital
chain, was writing something for her work and asked me for another
word for "tertiary". I suggested, "How about 'third', 'third-degree',
or 'third-level'?" She looked at me as if I had lost my mind.
We finally figured out that in the hospital world, "tertiary" means
a specific kind of medical care. They have "primary", "secondary",
and "tertiary" medical care, which I didn't really understand how
they're differentiated. My sister had been using this word without
any knowledge that "tertiary" follows "primary" and "secondary"; she
thought it was simply descriptive of the kind of care.
-Curtis Cameron
Anno Siegel
Paul J Kriha <kri...@actrix.gen.nz> wrote in alt.usage.english:
[...]
>unary, binary, trinary, ......, octal!
Isn't that ternary?
Anno
Paul J Kriha
In article <5ni2e0$i...@agate.berkeley.edu>, co...@euler.Berkeley.EDU (Coby (Jacob) Lubliner) wrote:
>Earle Jones <ejo...@hooked.net> wrote:
>
>>Anyway, to get back to the thread, what are the next members of the series:
>
>>primary
>>secondary
>>tertiary
>>quaternary (?)
>>??
>>??
>>??
>
> senary
> septenary
>
>These go back to Latin. The next term should be octary, but
>some 20th-century mathematician, without the benefit of classics,
>coined "octal" instead.
>
Octary is fine, it shouldn't be confused with octal.
unary, binary, trinary, ......, octal!
Paul JK.
--
Know what's weird? Day by day nothing seems to
change, but pretty soon everything is different.
Coby (Jacob) Lubliner
In article <5nlv80$11c...@actrix.gen.nz>,
Paul J Kriha <kri...@actrix.gen.nz> wrote:
>In article <5ni2e0$i...@agate.berkeley.edu>, co...@euler.Berkeley.EDU (Coby (Jacob) Lubliner) wrote:
>>In article <ejones-ya0235800...@206.15.64.37>,
>>Earle Jones <ejo...@hooked.net> wrote:
>>
>>>Anyway, to get back to the thread, what are the next members of the series:
>>
>>>primary
>>>secondary
>>>tertiary
>>>quaternary (?)
>> quinary
>> senary
>> septenary
>>These go back to Latin. The next term should be octary, but
>>some 20th-century mathematician, without the benefit of classics,
>>coined "octal" instead.
>
>Octary is fine, it shouldn't be confused with octal.
>unary, binary, trinary, ......, octal!
There is some confusion here that I helped generate by confusing
the primary, secondary ... series with the unary, binary.. one.
Anyway, in the latter the third term is, to my knowledge (and
MWCD10) bears me out), ternary not trinary, and the rest is as I
indicated it; there also seems to be an -al series: unal, binal,
trinal...
To go back to the original question: The terms primary, secondary,
tertiary arise from Latin where -ari- (-us, -a, -um...) is added to
the stem of the ordinal: prim-, secund-, terti-, ... Grammatical
logic would therefore point to the subsequent terms being quartary,
quintary, sextary, septimary, octavary, nonary, decimary.
Coby
Stuart Robinson
So, there are in fact four series, no?
1. first, second, third, etc.
2. primary, secondary, tertiary, etc.
3. unary, binary, ternary, etc.
4. unal, binal, trinal, etc.
I think the meaning and use of series (1) through (3) are fairly clear,
but what about (4)? How is this series used?
Colin Fine
In article <Stuart.Robinson-...@asianstmg-221.anu.edu.au>,
Stuart Robinson <Stuart....@anu.edu.au> writes
>So, there are in fact four series, no?
>
>1. first, second, third, etc.
>2. primary, secondary, tertiary, etc.
>3. unary, binary, ternary, etc.
>4. unal, binal, trinal, etc.
>
"Ounce Dice Trice":
(from memory)
Ounce, Dice, Trice, Quartz, Quince, Sink, Sentiment, Oxygen, Nitrogen,
Denim;
Instant, Distant, Tryst, Catalyst, Quest, Sago, Serpent, Apron, Nunnery,
Density;
and a couple more.
--
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
| Colin Fine 66 High Ash, Shipley, W Yorks. BD18 1NE, UK |
| Tel: 01274 592696/0976 436109 e-mail: co...@kindness.demon.co.uk |
| "Please don't help me. I need to learn to walk by myself. |
| Only this - remind me when I won't." -K.B.Brown |
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Robert R. Koblish
Stuart Robinson wrote:
>
> Aren't there three series?
>
> first
> second
> third
> etc.
>
> primary
> secondary
> tertiary
> quaternary
>
> unitary
> binary
> ?
unary
binary
ternary
?
--
regards
-rrk
To reply, remove the leading X in my return address.
Paul J Kriha
In article <5nm4dp$5qm$1...@brachio.zrz.TU-Berlin.DE>, anno...@lublin.zrz.TU-Berlin.DE (Anno Siegel)
wrote:
>Paul J Kriha <kri...@actrix.gen.nz> wrote in alt.usage.english:
>
>[...]
>
>>unary, binary, trinary, ......, octal!
>
>
>Anno
If you mean trinary, yes, it is! As well.
CED: trinary adj. 1. made of three parts; ternary
2. going in threes
[C15 from Late Latin trinarius of three sort,
from Latin trini three each, from tres three]
Gwendolen
Tertiary comes third. Don't ask me what comes fourth.
Larry Preuss
In article <01bc79c0$a092fac0$3e4060ce@ramaro>, "Gwendolen"
<Gw...@Scooziepie.com> wrote:
> Tertiary comes third. Don't ask me what comes fourth.
Clearly, nothing else comes forth.
LP
--
Robin Parkinson
In message <01bc79c0$a092fac0$3e4060ce@ramaro>
"Gwendolen" <Gw...@Scooziepie.com> writes:
> Tertiary comes third. Don't ask me what comes fourth.
Quartenary, I think. However, I've never used anything higher than
that, so I can't tell you what's next.
- robin.
--
rob...@zetnet.co.uk --- Robin Parkinson --- rpark...@iclretail.icl.com
"I am playing the right notes - but not necessarily in the right order"
- Eric Morecambe
Geoffrey Atkin
The distinction is kind of fuzzy, and my perception is that it is
becoming more so (at least in the U.S.), but I'll take a stab at it.
A primary medical care provider is where you go when you get sick
or break your arm. If you have an ailment which is beyond your
primary provider's abilities to diagnose or treat, they might refer
you to a secondary provider, one which is larger, better equiped, or
specializes in your type of problem. If they can't help you, you
might ask, "ok, who are the best doctors in this field?"
Thus, a medical care provider can be loosely categorized as
primary, secondary, or tertiary based on the kinds of patients they
are equipped to see (or want to attact, since we're talking about
marketing.) "Tertiary" suggests a typical patient at your sister's
hospital has traveled a long way to get there, because that hospital
employs the best doctors in thier fields.
In this context, "tertiary" has a very different connotation than
"third-degree" or "third-level" have. Marketing folks care deeply
about connotation, which is why your sister acted like you'd lost
your mind. If she still wants a synonym, you might try "third-tier."
Geoff Atkin
--
The above "From:" address has been altered to reduce junk e-mail.
To recover my real e-mail address, delete "nospam." Opinions
expressed herein are mine, not my employer's.
Paul Hughett
In article <Stuart.Robinson-...@asianstmg-221.anu.edu.au>,
Stuart Robinson <Stuart....@anu.edu.au> writes
>So, there are in fact four series, no?
>1. first, second, third, etc.
>2. primary, secondary, tertiary, etc.
>3. unary, binary, ternary, etc.
>4. unal, binal, trinal, etc.
There is also a special series for counting feet:
unipod, biped, tripod, quadruped, pentapod, hexapod, ???, octopus, ???,
decepod, ..., centipede, ..., millipede.
Paul Hughett
John Nurick
On 19 Jun 1997 13:18:38 GMT, hug...@galton.psycha.upenn.edu (Paul
Hughett) wrote:
>There is also a special series for counting feet:
I only know "pentameter" and "hexameter". Any others?
John
I dislocated my e-mail address, and the doctor says it will be
six months before I can see a specialist.
Simon R. Hughes
On Sat, 21 Jun 1997 05:24:12 GMT, j.nu...@ialday.ipexpay.omcay (John
Nurick) scribbled:
> On 19 Jun 1997 13:18:38 GMT, hug...@galton.psycha.upenn.edu (Paul
> Hughett) wrote:
>
> >There is also a special series for counting feet:
>
> I only know "pentameter" and "hexameter". Any others?
>
"Bimeter"
"Trimeter"
"Tetrameter"
"Pentameter"
"Hexameter"
"Heptameter"
"Octameter"
"Nonameter"
"Decameter"
"Eh... is that one line or two?"
The most common are tetrameter and pentameter.
===
+ From the digits of Simon R. Hughes + mailto:shu...@sn.no +
+ Headers changed to prevent spamming. +
+ To reply, remove *spam-blok* from address line. +
+ http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Acropolis/1194/index.html +
Donna Richoux
John Nurick <j.nu...@ialday.ipexpay.omcay> wrote:
> On 19 Jun 1997 13:18:38 GMT, hug...@galton.psycha.upenn.edu (Paul
> Hughett) wrote:
>
> >There is also a special series for counting feet:
>
> I only know "pentameter" and "hexameter". Any others?
Dimeter, trimeter, tetrameter. (Were you really asking or was that part
of the joke?)
Best -- Donna Richoux
Albert Marshall
John Nurick <j.nu...@ialday.ipexpay.omcay> wrote
>On 19 Jun 1997 13:18:38 GMT, hug...@galton.psycha.upenn.edu (Paul
>Hughett) wrote:
>
>>There is also a special series for counting feet:
>
>I only know "pentameter" and "hexameter". Any others?
Yard?
Fathom?
Perch?
--
Albert Marshall
Executive French
Language Training for Businesses in Kent
01634 400902
John Nurick
On 21 Jun 1997 23:08:13 GMT, tr...@euronet.nl (Donna Richoux) wrote:
>John Nurick <j.nu...@ialday.ipexpay.omcay> wrote:
>> On 19 Jun 1997 13:18:38 GMT, hug...@galton.psycha.upenn.edu (Paul
>> Hughett) wrote:
>> >There is also a special series for counting feet:
>> I only know "pentameter" and "hexameter". Any others?
>Dimeter, trimeter, tetrameter. (Were you really asking or was that part
>of the joke?)
Two were enough for the joke, but I am curious whether the others are
needed in the field or are just there for completeness. For that
matter, is there any verse for which "heptameter" is needed because
"fourteener" will not do?
Getting back to the original query, there's primary medication, for
what ails you; secondary medication, to alleviate the side-effects of
the primary; and tertiary medication, to....
Paul Sampson
John Nurick wrote:
> tr...@euronet.nl (Donna Richoux) wrote:
> > John Nurick <j.nu...@ialday.ipexpay.omcay> wrote:
> > > hug...@galton.psycha.upenn.edu (Paul Hughett) wrote:
> > > > There is also a special series for counting feet:
> > > I only know "pentameter" and "hexameter". Any others?
Sesquipedalian?
> > Dimeter, trimeter, tetrameter. (Were you really asking or was that part
> > of the joke?)
> Two were enough for the joke, but I am curious whether the others are
> needed in the field or are just there for completeness. ...
Presumably monometer would be excluded on the grounds of rhythmic banality?
But to return to fractional issues, is there anything for n-and-a-half-ness
other than the aforementioned seqsui-? What would be a good example of, say,
a dactylic sesquimeter? (I volunteer "Coitus Inter-")
> ...
And - just to be *really* annoying - simplex, duplex, triplex ...
John Nurick
>And - just to be *really* annoying - simplex, duplex, triplex ...
Or for steam men: simple (a retronym), compound, triple expansion...
Paul J Kriha
In article <33b433a7...@news.dial.pipex.com>, j.nu...@ialday.ipexpay.omcay (John Nurick)
wrote:
>On Thu, 26 Jun 1997 13:12:24 +0100, Paul Sampson
><paul.s...@onyx.net> wrote:
>
>>And - just to be *really* annoying - simplex, duplex, triplex ...
>
>Or for steam men: simple (a retronym), compound, triple expansion...
>
How'bout: semester, trimester, ....
PJK
Simon R. Hughes
On Sun, 29 Jun 97 07:22:11 GMT, kri...@actrix.gen.nz (Paul J Kriha)
scribbled:
> In article <33b433a7...@news.dial.pipex.com>, j.nu...@ialday.ipexpay.omcay (John Nurick)
> wrote:
> >On Thu, 26 Jun 1997 13:12:24 +0100, Paul Sampson
> ><paul.s...@onyx.net> wrote:
> >
> >>And - just to be *really* annoying - simplex, duplex, triplex ...
> >
> >Or for steam men: simple (a retronym), compound, triple expansion...
> >
>
> How'bout: semester, trimester, ....
OK... what would you call ONE semester (one half of the school year)?
Paul J Kriha
In article <33b6d3bf...@news.sn.no>, shughes@sn*spam-blok*.no (Simon R. Hughes) wrote:
>On Sun, 29 Jun 97 07:22:11 GMT, kri...@actrix.gen.nz (Paul J Kriha)
>scribbled:
>
>> In article <33b433a7...@news.dial.pipex.com>, j.nu...@ialday.ipexpay.omcay (John Nurick)
>> wrote:
>> >On Thu, 26 Jun 1997 13:12:24 +0100, Paul Sampson
>> ><paul.s...@onyx.net> wrote:
>> >
>> >>And - just to be *really* annoying - simplex, duplex, triplex ...
>> >
>> >Or for steam men: simple (a retronym), compound, triple expansion...
>> >
>>
>> How'bout: semester, trimester, ....
>
>OK... what would you call ONE semester (one half of the school year)?
One semester is a semester, ie 1/2 of school year. :-)
Year = 1/1 year
Semester = 1/2 year
Trimester = 1/3 year
Robert Lieblich
Paul J Kriha wrote:
>
> In article <33b6d3bf...@news.sn.no>, shughes@sn*spam-blok*.no (Simon R. Hughes) wrote:
> >On Sun, 29 Jun 97 07:22:11 GMT, kri...@actrix.gen.nz (Paul J Kriha)
> >scribbled:
> >
> >> In article <33b433a7...@news.dial.pipex.com>, j.nu...@ialday.ipexpay.omcay (John Nurick)
> >> wrote:
> >> >On Thu, 26 Jun 1997 13:12:24 +0100, Paul Sampson
> >> ><paul.s...@onyx.net> wrote:
> >> >
> >> >>And - just to be *really* annoying - simplex, duplex, triplex ...
> >> >
> >> >Or for steam men: simple (a retronym), compound, triple expansion...
> >> >
> >>
> >> How'bout: semester, trimester, ....
> >
> >OK... what would you call ONE semester (one half of the school year)?
>
> One semester is a semester, ie 1/2 of school year. :-)
>
> Year = 1/1 year
> Semester = 1/2 year
> Trimester = 1/3 year
Sounds logical enough, and it's probably closest to the real-life
meaning of the words, but (in the case of "trimester") it isn't true to
the actual etymology. The "mester" in each is from the Latin "mensis" =
month. "Trimester" comes from Latin "trimestris," a compound of "tri"
for "three" and "mestris" somehow transmuted from "mensis," and it means
"three months." The "se" in "semester" is from Latin "sex" = English
"six." So a trimester, etymologically, is three months or 1/4 of a
year.
I suspect that many of those who haven't looked up the etymology take
the "sem" in "semester" as short for "semi" and figure that the "tri" in
"trimester" represents thirds. Hence a semester is taken to be half a
year rather than six months (functional if not etymological
equivalents), and trimester is thought to be a third of a year, which is
not the same thing as three months. I made that mistake myself until I
hit the dictionary (AH3 and RH1). And in real life, trimester probably
does represent a third of a year. Otherwise it would mean the same as
"quarter" - and it doesn't.
So it seems we have a word whose current meaning is based on what Fowler
called "folk etymolgy" rather than on its actual etymology.
So what else is new?
Bob Lieblich <lieb...@erols.com>
Keith C. Ivey
Robert Lieblich <lieb...@erols.com> wrote:
>And in real life, trimester probably
>does represent a third of a year. Otherwise it would mean the same as
>"quarter" - and it doesn't.
>
>So it seems we have a word whose current meaning is based on what Fowler
>called "folk etymolgy" rather than on its actual etymology.
What makes you think that the current meaning of "trimester" is
a third of a year (four months)? In my experience, the word
comes up most often in discussions of abortion, and in that
context it definitely means three months.
Keith C. Ivey <kci...@cpcug.org> Washington, DC
Untangling the Web <http://www.eeicom.com/eye/utw/>
M. Kelley
On Tue, 1 Jul 1997, Keith C. Ivey wrote:
> Robert Lieblich <lieb...@erols.com> wrote:
>
> >And in real life, trimester probably
> >does represent a third of a year. Otherwise it would mean the same as
> >"quarter" - and it doesn't.
>
> What makes you think that the current meaning of "trimester" is
> a third of a year (four months)? In my experience, the word
> comes up most often in discussions of abortion, and in that
> context it definitely means three months.
Guess it depends what the "trimester" is of, doesn't it? AFAIK the
average pregnancy lasts 9 months. Divided in thirds, a trimester of a
pregnancy would be (and, incidentally, is) three months. What makes you
think "trimester" in the context you mention has anything to do with a
calendar year?
MLK
Robert Lieblich
If I may butt back in, I was responding to a post that surmised that a
trimester is a third of a year. Also, my understanding of the way the
word is used in those US universities on the "trimester" system is that
they divide the academic year into thirds and those "thirds" do not
correspond to the "quarters" of schools on the quarter system, quarters
being units of one-fourth of a year, i.e., three months.
Of course, I could be wrong. There's precedent.
Bob Lieblich <lieb...@erols.com>
Mrs Teacake
> >OK... what would you call ONE semester (one half of the school year)?
>
> One semester is a semester, ie 1/2 of school year. :-)
>
> Year = 1/1 year
> Semester = 1/2 year
> Trimester = 1/3 year
What about a quarter?
Keith C. Ivey
"M. Kelley" <mlke...@u.washington.edu> wrote:
>Guess it depends what the "trimester" is of, doesn't it? AFAIK the
>average pregnancy lasts 9 months. Divided in thirds, a trimester of a
>pregnancy would be (and, incidentally, is) three months. What makes you
>think "trimester" in the context you mention has anything to do with a
>calendar year?
"Trimester" comes from the Latin words for "three months", so
presumably three months was the original meaning. Until now,
I've never heard anyone claim it means anything else. Now you
seem to be saying it means "one third" to you. Does that mean a
trimester of a day is eight hours? Can you have a trimester of
a pie? Is a month of a day two hours? Is a week of a pack of
playing cards one card?
Giovanni Zezza
M. Kelley scriveva:
>Guess it depends what the "trimester" is of, doesn't it? AFAIK the
>average pregnancy lasts 9 months. Divided in thirds, a trimester of a
>pregnancy would be (and, incidentally, is) three months. What makes you
>think "trimester" in the context you mention has anything to do with a
>calendar year?
That "trimester" is, originally, "tri" - "mester", that is 3 months.
"Incidentally" this a third of an average pregnancy period, and a third of an
average school year (in most countries).
Of course, you can get what you want from your language, so you can get
"trimester" meaning "a third of a period", or an apple, or a hound, or whatever
you want. I'm not actually an English speaker so I can't stop you doing that.
Anyway, the original meaning of "trimester" is "3 months". And it's so in all
languages that have the same word, derived from Latin.
In my opinion, it wouldn't be a bad thing having the same meaning in English
too.
Ciao.
Donna Richoux
Robert Lieblich <lieb...@erols.com> wrote:
> M. Kelley wrote:
[snip]
> > Guess it depends what the "trimester" is of, doesn't it? AFAIK the
> > average pregnancy lasts 9 months. Divided in thirds, a trimester of a
> > pregnancy would be (and, incidentally, is) three months. What makes you
> > think "trimester" in the context you mention has anything to do with a
> > calendar year?
>
> If I may butt back in, I was responding to a post that surmised that a
> trimester is a third of a year. Also, my understanding of the way the
> word is used in those US universities on the "trimester" system is that
> they divide the academic year into thirds and those "thirds" do not
> correspond to the "quarters" of schools on the quarter system, quarters
> being units of one-fourth of a year, i.e., three months.
My dictionary (Thorndike Barnhart 1991) lists both meanings of the word,
a third of a calendar year or a third of an academic year.
My guess is that you were almost right in your earlier post. I think the
people who first divided their school years into three sections and
called them "trimesters" thought they were inventing a word, in parallel
to "semester," which, as you said, they assumed was related to "semi" or
"half." The facts that (a) the new word they coined, trimester, happened
to be the same as an older, existing word meaning "a third of a calendar
year," and (b) the se- in semester meant six, and mester meant month,
which Partridge confirms, would have been news to them, as it is to me.
Or, almost the same thing, they may have vaguely remembered the word
"trimesters" from hearing about other school systems, perhaps from older
times or other countries, but never grasped the precise meaning of the
word.
Best --- Donna Richoux
Donna Richoux
Oh, dang, I made the same mistake about "trimester" in my post that Bob
had warned about. I should have had the dictionary in front of me. I
cannot cancel posts with this newsreader (I'm not sure whether I could
by opening up a different news program) but would you please substitute
this one for the one I posted a few minutes ago.
Donna Richoux <tr...@euronet.nl> wrote:
> Robert Lieblich <lieb...@erols.com> wrote:
>
> > M. Kelley wrote:
> [snip]
> > > Guess it depends what the "trimester" is of, doesn't it? AFAIK the
> > > average pregnancy lasts 9 months. Divided in thirds, a trimester of a
> > > pregnancy would be (and, incidentally, is) three months. What makes you
> > > think "trimester" in the context you mention has anything to do with a
> > > calendar year?
> >
> > If I may butt back in, I was responding to a post that surmised that a
> > trimester is a third of a year. Also, my understanding of the way the
> > word is used in those US universities on the "trimester" system is that
> > they divide the academic year into thirds and those "thirds" do not
> > correspond to the "quarters" of schools on the quarter system, quarters
> > being units of one-fourth of a year, i.e., three months.
My dictionary (Thorndike Barnhart 1991) lists both meanings of the word,
(1) a three-month period or (2) a third of a school year.
My guess is that you were almost right in your earlier post. I think the
people who first divided their school years into three sections and
called them "trimesters" thought they were inventing a word, in parallel
to "semester," which, as you said, they assumed was related to "semi" or
"half." The facts that (a) the new word they coined, trimester, happened
to be the same as an older, existing word meaning "a three-month
period," and (b) the se- in semester meant six, and mester meant month,
which Partridge confirms, would have been news to them, as it is to me.
Or, almost the same thing, they may have vaguely remembered the word
"trimesters" from hearing about other school systems, perhaps from older
times or other countries, but never grasped the precise meaning of the
word.
> Best --- Donna Richoux
A third of twelve is four. A fourth of twelve is three.
A third of twelve...
Correction posted & emailed
Maarten
In article <1997070310...@p016.hlm.euronet.nl>, Donna Richoux
<tr...@euronet.nl> writes
>Robert Lieblich <lieb...@erols.com> wrote:
>
>> M. Kelley wrote:
>[snip]
>> > Guess it depends what the "trimester" is of, doesn't it? AFAIK the
>> > average pregnancy lasts 9 months. Divided in thirds, a trimester of a
>> > pregnancy would be (and, incidentally, is) three months. What makes you
>> > think "trimester" in the context you mention has anything to do with a
>> > calendar year?
>>
>> If I may butt back in, I was responding to a post that surmised that a
>> trimester is a third of a year. Also, my understanding of the way the
>> word is used in those US universities on the "trimester" system is that
>> they divide the academic year into thirds and those "thirds" do not
>> correspond to the "quarters" of schools on the quarter system, quarters
>> being units of one-fourth of a year, i.e., three months.
>
>My dictionary (Thorndike Barnhart 1991) lists both meanings of the word,
>
>My guess is that you were almost right in your earlier post. I think the
>people who first divided their school years into three sections and
>called them "trimesters" thought they were inventing a word, in parallel
>to "semester," which, as you said, they assumed was related to "semi" or
>"half." The facts that (a) the new word they coined, trimester, happened
>which Partridge confirms, would have been news to them, as it is to me.
>
>Or, almost the same thing, they may have vaguely remembered the word
>"trimesters" from hearing about other school systems, perhaps from older
>times or other countries, but never grasped the precise meaning of the
>word.
>
>Best --- Donna Richoux
traditionally been divided into four trimesters (The classics dominated
the curriculum). The fourth trimester is the summer holiday and was
considerably longer than today. Trimesters are quarters.
--
Dr Maarten de Bruijn mat...@POPULUS.net
19 Belmont Avenue
Macclesfield "Reality is an illusion caused by lack of alcohol."
Cheshire SK10 3JN, UK (W.C.Fields 1941)