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Re: How do you call coffee with milk and sugar?
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Tony Cooper
May 4, 2021, 4:52:04 PM5/4/21
to
On 4 May 2021 20:05:25 GMT, r...@zedat.fu-berlin.de (Stefan Ram) wrote:
> In New York jargon, coffee with milk and sugar is called
> "regular coffee", but everywhere else a regular coffee
> is a coffee that is not decaffeinated.
>
Years ago, in Boston, I stopped in restaurant, sat at the counter, and
ordered a cup of coffee. The waitress asked "Regular?".
I replied, "No, I use cream and sugar and will add it myself".
She snorted "Don't be a wise ass".
True story. I guess, from that, is that "Regular" in Boston is with
cream and sugar. I was too intimidated to ask.
--
Tony Cooper Orlando Florida
> In New York jargon, coffee with milk and sugar is called
> "regular coffee", but everywhere else a regular coffee
> is a coffee that is not decaffeinated.
>
Years ago, in Boston, I stopped in restaurant, sat at the counter, and
ordered a cup of coffee. The waitress asked "Regular?".
I replied, "No, I use cream and sugar and will add it myself".
She snorted "Don't be a wise ass".
True story. I guess, from that, is that "Regular" in Boston is with
cream and sugar. I was too intimidated to ask.
--
Tony Cooper Orlando Florida
Quinn C
May 4, 2021, 6:00:51 PM5/4/21
to
* Stefan Ram:
> In New York jargon, coffee with milk and sugar is called
> "regular coffee", but everywhere else a regular coffee
> is a coffee that is not decaffeinated.
>
> Are there any other shorter expressions for "coffee with
> milk and sugar"?
In Canada, a "double double" is a coffee with two standard units each of
milk and sugar.
I guess I might be understood by analogy if I asked for a "single
single", but I don't think it's a conventionalized expression.
I usually drink my coffee black, unless there's a problem with the
taste. In the latter case, I'm more likely to use one unit of milk
and/or sugar to cover up some of the dissatisfactory taste.
> I read "American-style Coffee" for it.
> Maybe I can shorten this to just "American Coffee"?
> (Not to be confused with "Caffè Americano", though.)
>
> I suppose one cannot use "Latte" or "Cafe au Lait" as
> this would already include specific preparation methods.
>
> (To be specific, if this should matter: I refer to sugar and
> whole diary milk added to drip or instant coffee, so that
> the drink then consists of about 20 percent of whole diary
> milk - drunk hot or cold.)
I don't think any of the expressions mentioned above are restricted to
dairy milk*. They can be suffixed with extra instructions to specify a
substitute, e.g. "one Latte, almond milk".
*I'm sure that's what you meant.
--
Do not they speak false English ... that doth not speak thou to one,
and what ever he be, Father, Mother, King, or Judge, is he not a
Novice, and Unmannerly, and an Ideot, and a Fool, that speaks Your
to one, which is not to be spoken to a singular, but to many?
-- George Fox (1660)
> In New York jargon, coffee with milk and sugar is called
> "regular coffee", but everywhere else a regular coffee
> is a coffee that is not decaffeinated.
>
> milk and sugar"?
In Canada, a "double double" is a coffee with two standard units each of
milk and sugar.
I guess I might be understood by analogy if I asked for a "single
single", but I don't think it's a conventionalized expression.
I usually drink my coffee black, unless there's a problem with the
taste. In the latter case, I'm more likely to use one unit of milk
and/or sugar to cover up some of the dissatisfactory taste.
> I read "American-style Coffee" for it.
> Maybe I can shorten this to just "American Coffee"?
> (Not to be confused with "Caffè Americano", though.)
>
> I suppose one cannot use "Latte" or "Cafe au Lait" as
> this would already include specific preparation methods.
>
> (To be specific, if this should matter: I refer to sugar and
> whole diary milk added to drip or instant coffee, so that
> the drink then consists of about 20 percent of whole diary
> milk - drunk hot or cold.)
I don't think any of the expressions mentioned above are restricted to
dairy milk*. They can be suffixed with extra instructions to specify a
substitute, e.g. "one Latte, almond milk".
*I'm sure that's what you meant.
--
Do not they speak false English ... that doth not speak thou to one,
and what ever he be, Father, Mother, King, or Judge, is he not a
Novice, and Unmannerly, and an Ideot, and a Fool, that speaks Your
to one, which is not to be spoken to a singular, but to many?
-- George Fox (1660)
Sam Plusnet
May 4, 2021, 8:31:12 PM5/4/21
to
On 04-May-21 23:01, Quinn C wrote:
> In Canada, a "double double" is a coffee with two standard units each of
> milk and sugar.
>
<snip the rest>
> In Canada, a "double double" is a coffee with two standard units each of
> milk and sugar.
>
"standard units"?
--
Sam Plusnet
Wales, UK
Lewis
May 5, 2021, 7:13:17 AM5/5/21
to
In message <coffee-202...@ram.dialup.fu-berlin.de> Stefan Ram <r...@zedat.fu-berlin.de> wrote:
> In New York jargon, coffee with milk and sugar is called
> "regular coffee", but everywhere else a regular coffee
> is a coffee that is not decaffeinated.
Um.. nor necessarily.
> In New York jargon, coffee with milk and sugar is called
> "regular coffee", but everywhere else a regular coffee
> is a coffee that is not decaffeinated.
> Are there any other shorter expressions for "coffee with
> Maybe I can shorten this to just "American Coffee"?
Not at all. I suspect most Americans drink their coffee black, with no
milk or sugar. That is to say, when drinking coffee and not coffee laced
beverages from certain Seattle companies.
In many restaurants, you have to specifically ask for half-and-half for
your coffee, the assumption is you'll be drinking it without cream.
And there is not one common amount of sugar and cream people use, and
most people do not put milk in their coffee even if they do put
something in their coffee. Milk is for tea, and is not able to compete
with the coffee unless you mix it at about a 1:1 ratio.
> I suppose one cannot use "Latte" or "Cafe au Lait" as
> this would already include specific preparation methods.
cream and two sugar wants.
> (To be specific, if this should matter: I refer to sugar and
> whole diary milk added to drip or instant coffee, so that
> the drink then consists of about 20 percent of whole diary
> milk - drunk hot or cold.)
unavailable, and rarely then. In other countries, "half and half" will
have other names. In Canada it is "coffee cream" universally, even
though sometimes the packages specifically say "half and half".
20% "milk" is a very very high ratio. Normally a "cup" of coffee is 6oz
and a "cream" individual container is ... half an ounce? I don't have
any of those hand to check.
I generally have my coffee in a half litre mug that is almost all coffee
and has maybe 20ml of cream in it. Well, I say "generally" but that is
really past me, I drink far less coffee than I used to and tend to put
more "stuff" in it when I do.
--
At 20:43 the dome of St. Elvis Cathedral shattered... and the Devil
walked the earth again. He'd never really left.
J. J. Lodder
May 5, 2021, 9:21:16 AM5/5/21
to
Stefan Ram <r...@zedat.fu-berlin.de> wrote:
> In New York jargon, coffee with milk and sugar is called
> "regular coffee", but everywhere else a regular coffee
> is a coffee that is not decaffeinated.
>
> In New York jargon, coffee with milk and sugar is called
> "regular coffee", but everywhere else a regular coffee
> is a coffee that is not decaffeinated.
>
> Are there any other shorter expressions for "coffee with
> milk and sugar"? I read "American-style Coffee" for it.
> Maybe I can shorten this to just "American Coffee"?
> milk and sugar"? I read "American-style Coffee" for it.
> Maybe I can shorten this to just "American Coffee"?
> (Not to be confused with "Caffè Americano", though.)
'Koffie verkeerd' (lit. coffee all wrong)
Jan
Peter T. Daniels
May 5, 2021, 9:49:25 AM5/5/21
to
saying something) as in this bizarre survey of what he thinks ordinary
American practice wrt ordinary coffee is.
Incidentally, the "standard measure" of sugar is what used to be
"one lump" -- a brick, subsequently individually paper-wrapped --
of sugar equal to one teaspoon (1/6 oz.) 0f granulated sugar,
and now one paper packet (same amount) of granulated sugar.
There's also a standard amount of milk (often still referred to
as "cream") when poured from a little pitcher, but I don't know
what it amounts to in cc.
Peter T. Daniels
May 5, 2021, 9:53:53 AM5/5/21
to
1986 -- at a luncheonette that claimed to be where the cheeseburger
was invented long ago. I heard everyone ordering "regular" or some
such and asked for "regular [or some such] no onions" and got an
argument from the counterman: "Which do you want? Regular [or
some such] or no onions?" (He didn't care that nowhere on the wall
menus was "regular [or some such]" defined. If you were a Yalie,
you just knew.)
Quinn C
May 5, 2021, 9:54:10 AM5/5/21
to
* Sam Plusnet:
> On 04-May-21 23:01, Quinn C wrote:
>
>> In Canada, a "double double" is a coffee with two standard units each of
>> milk and sugar.
>>
>
> <snip the rest>
>
> "standard units"?
Well, yeah. You can say "... with two milk and two sugar", so some kind
of standard unit is implied, and it's not the same unit for both milk
and sugar.
I never quite understood what it is. In gastronomical settings, it'd
often be one sachet of sugar (when I was a child: one cube of sugar) and
one little cup of milk (not around yet when I was a child), but how that
translates to anything I'd use at home, like spoons, I don't know.
--
There is, at a women's college, always some emancipating
encouragement for those with masculine tastes for such things
as mathematics, philosophy, and friendship.
-- Jane Rule, This Is Not For You, p.15
> On 04-May-21 23:01, Quinn C wrote:
>
>> In Canada, a "double double" is a coffee with two standard units each of
>> milk and sugar.
>>
>
> <snip the rest>
>
> "standard units"?
of standard unit is implied, and it's not the same unit for both milk
and sugar.
I never quite understood what it is. In gastronomical settings, it'd
often be one sachet of sugar (when I was a child: one cube of sugar) and
one little cup of milk (not around yet when I was a child), but how that
translates to anything I'd use at home, like spoons, I don't know.
--
There is, at a women's college, always some emancipating
encouragement for those with masculine tastes for such things
as mathematics, philosophy, and friendship.
-- Jane Rule, This Is Not For You, p.15
Quinn C
May 5, 2021, 9:57:03 AM5/5/21
to
* J. J. Lodder:
"Kaffee verkehrt" in the Vienna sense is akin to Latte macchiato, which
isn't what Stefan was asking about.
--
The country has its quota of fools and windbags; such people are
most prominent in politics, where their inherent weaknesses seem
less glaring and attract less ridicule than they would in other
walks of life. -- Robert Bothwell et.al.: Canada since 1945
isn't what Stefan was asking about.
--
The country has its quota of fools and windbags; such people are
most prominent in politics, where their inherent weaknesses seem
less glaring and attract less ridicule than they would in other
walks of life. -- Robert Bothwell et.al.: Canada since 1945
Bill Day
May 5, 2021, 9:58:47 AM5/5/21
to
On Wed, 5 May 2021 11:13:13 -0000 (UTC), Lewis
<g.k...@kreme.dont-email.me> wrote:
>In message <coffee-202...@ram.dialup.fu-berlin.de> Stefan Ram <r...@zedat.fu-berlin.de> wrote:
>> In New York jargon, coffee with milk and sugar is called
>> "regular coffee", but everywhere else a regular coffee
>> is a coffee that is not decaffeinated.
If I buy coffee in a reataurant, or form a vendor, my phrase would
<g.k...@kreme.dont-email.me> wrote:
>In message <coffee-202...@ram.dialup.fu-berlin.de> Stefan Ram <r...@zedat.fu-berlin.de> wrote:
>> In New York jargon, coffee with milk and sugar is called
>> "regular coffee", but everywhere else a regular coffee
>> is a coffee that is not decaffeinated.
be..
"coffee..plain, with one sugar". "Regular" can be construed too many
ways in different areas. If possible, I prefer to add MY amount of
sugar personally.
>
>Um.. nor necessarily.
>
>> Are there any other shorter expressions for "coffee with
>> milk and sugar"? I read "American-style Coffee" for it.
>> Maybe I can shorten this to just "American Coffee"?
>
>Not at all. I suspect most Americans drink their coffee black, with no
>milk or sugar. That is to say, when drinking coffee and not coffee laced
>beverages from certain Seattle companies.
>
Not in MY experience. Most people I have known do use milk. I do not.
>Um.. nor necessarily.
>
>> Are there any other shorter expressions for "coffee with
>> milk and sugar"? I read "American-style Coffee" for it.
>> Maybe I can shorten this to just "American Coffee"?
>
>Not at all. I suspect most Americans drink their coffee black, with no
>milk or sugar. That is to say, when drinking coffee and not coffee laced
>beverages from certain Seattle companies.
>
I use only a teaspoon of sugar... but in a mug larger than the
standard 'cup' measure.
>In many restaurants, you have to specifically ask for half-and-half for
>your coffee, the assumption is you'll be drinking it without cream.
>
>And there is not one common amount of sugar and cream people use, and
>most people do not put milk in their coffee even if they do put
>something in their coffee. Milk is for tea, and is not able to compete
>with the coffee unless you mix it at about a 1:1 ratio.
Very strange generalization. How can you know what most people, let
alone most Americans do?
And I have NEVER put milk in tea, and will never ruin a cup of tea
that way. I also never use a teabag... which I suspect is one reason
people choose to cut the taste with milk! Tea comes in a wide variety
of flavors if one bothers to use good, loose tea.... and milk would
totally disguise the distinctive flavor(s). I know that ease &
convenience are one of the main reasons for tea bags, but it is not
really difficult to steep Darjeeling, Kemun, Assam...etc. in a tea
ball. I have won bets that I could pick out a cup of tea made with a
bag from a group made with good, loose tea.
(Coffee also has a wide variety of styles, though they are not as
'sensitve' as tea to the addition of milk.)
>
>> I suppose one cannot use "Latte" or "Cafe au Lait" as
>> this would already include specific preparation methods.
>
>And have no relationship to what someone who wants a coffee with two
>cream and two sugar wants.
>
>> (To be specific, if this should matter: I refer to sugar and
>> whole diary milk added to drip or instant coffee, so that
>> the drink then consists of about 20 percent of whole diary
>> milk - drunk hot or cold.)
>
>I have only ever added milk to my coffee when "Half and Half" was
>unavailable, and rarely then. In other countries, "half and half" will
>have other names. In Canada it is "coffee cream" universally, even
>though sometimes the packages specifically say "half and half".
>
>20% "milk" is a very very high ratio. Normally a "cup" of coffee is 6oz
>and a "cream" individual container is ... half an ounce? I don't have
>any of those hand to check.
>
>I generally have my coffee in a half litre mug that is almost all coffee
>and has maybe 20ml of cream in it. Well, I say "generally" but that is
>really past me, I drink far less coffee than I used to and tend to put
>more "stuff" in it when I do.
--
remove nonsense for reply
>> I suppose one cannot use "Latte" or "Cafe au Lait" as
>> this would already include specific preparation methods.
>
>And have no relationship to what someone who wants a coffee with two
>cream and two sugar wants.
>
>> (To be specific, if this should matter: I refer to sugar and
>> whole diary milk added to drip or instant coffee, so that
>> the drink then consists of about 20 percent of whole diary
>> milk - drunk hot or cold.)
>
>I have only ever added milk to my coffee when "Half and Half" was
>unavailable, and rarely then. In other countries, "half and half" will
>have other names. In Canada it is "coffee cream" universally, even
>though sometimes the packages specifically say "half and half".
>
>20% "milk" is a very very high ratio. Normally a "cup" of coffee is 6oz
>and a "cream" individual container is ... half an ounce? I don't have
>any of those hand to check.
>
>I generally have my coffee in a half litre mug that is almost all coffee
>and has maybe 20ml of cream in it. Well, I say "generally" but that is
>really past me, I drink far less coffee than I used to and tend to put
>more "stuff" in it when I do.
--
Bill Day
May 5, 2021, 10:22:29 AM5/5/21
to
stopped in a small shop and asked for a BBQ sandwiich. The guy behind
the counter dipped some cheap BBQ onto a bun... then slapped a dipper
of cole slaw on top of it! I gasped and objected. He said "That's the
way it comes." I said, "Where I come from, one gets a choice whether
to have it 'on the side' or not at all."
Since then, I have learned to be very careful ordering things like
burgers and cold sandwiches, as I do NOT like onion on them... and
some places slap onion on everything if one does not watch carefully.
One place I went to regularly, the guy who several times had to
remove onion from my order finally said one day.."Oh, I remember. You
want a slice of red onion between two slices of white onion!"... and
proceeded to make it like I wanted.
Mack A. Damia
May 5, 2021, 10:33:44 AM5/5/21
to
Jerry Friedman
May 5, 2021, 11:18:00 AM5/5/21
to
On Wednesday, May 5, 2021 at 5:13:17 AM UTC-6, Lewis wrote:
> In message <coffee-202...@ram.dialup.fu-berlin.de> Stefan Ram <r...@zedat.fu-berlin.de> wrote:
> > In New York jargon, coffee with milk and sugar is called
> > "regular coffee", but everywhere else a regular coffee
> > is a coffee that is not decaffeinated.
> Um.. nor necessarily.
> > Are there any other shorter expressions for "coffee with
> > milk and sugar"? I read "American-style Coffee" for it.
> > Maybe I can shorten this to just "American Coffee"?
> Not at all. I suspect most Americans drink their coffee black, with no
> milk or sugar. That is to say, when drinking coffee and not coffee laced
> beverages from certain Seattle companies.
...
> In message <coffee-202...@ram.dialup.fu-berlin.de> Stefan Ram <r...@zedat.fu-berlin.de> wrote:
> > In New York jargon, coffee with milk and sugar is called
> > "regular coffee", but everywhere else a regular coffee
> > is a coffee that is not decaffeinated.
> Um.. nor necessarily.
> > Are there any other shorter expressions for "coffee with
> > milk and sugar"? I read "American-style Coffee" for it.
> > Maybe I can shorten this to just "American Coffee"?
> Not at all. I suspect most Americans drink their coffee black, with no
> milk or sugar. That is to say, when drinking coffee and not coffee laced
> beverages from certain Seattle companies.
"About 35% of coffee consumers usually drink black coffee." They're
talking about Americans and using "black" in the same sense as you,
but I don't know whether they're counting coffee-laced beverages from
those Seattle companies.
https://disturbmenot.co/coffee-statistics/
(The parenthetical "E-Imports", which looks like a source, isn't
clickable.)
--
Jerry Friedman
Ken Blake
May 5, 2021, 11:18:54 AM5/5/21
to
On 5/5/2021 4:13 AM, Lewis wrote:
> In message <coffee-202...@ram.dialup.fu-berlin.de> Stefan Ram <r...@zedat.fu-berlin.de> wrote:
>> In New York jargon, coffee with milk and sugar is called
>> "regular coffee", but everywhere else a regular coffee
>> is a coffee that is not decaffeinated.
>
> Um.. nor necessarily.
>
>> Are there any other shorter expressions for "coffee with
>> milk and sugar"? I read "American-style Coffee" for it.
>> Maybe I can shorten this to just "American Coffee"?
>
> Not at all. I suspect most Americans drink their coffee black, with no
> milk or sugar.
Although I drink my coffee black, with no milk or sugar, I think that's
> In message <coffee-202...@ram.dialup.fu-berlin.de> Stefan Ram <r...@zedat.fu-berlin.de> wrote:
>> In New York jargon, coffee with milk and sugar is called
>> "regular coffee", but everywhere else a regular coffee
>> is a coffee that is not decaffeinated.
>
> Um.. nor necessarily.
>
>> Are there any other shorter expressions for "coffee with
>> milk and sugar"? I read "American-style Coffee" for it.
>> Maybe I can shorten this to just "American Coffee"?
>
> Not at all. I suspect most Americans drink their coffee black, with no
> milk or sugar.
exactly backwards. I think that by far, most Americans drink their
coffee with milk and sugar (or an artificial sweeter such as saccherine).
--
Ken
Ken Blake
May 5, 2021, 11:24:40 AM5/5/21
to
On 5/5/2021 6:54 AM, Quinn C wrote:
> * Sam Plusnet:
>
>> On 04-May-21 23:01, Quinn C wrote:
>>
>>> In Canada, a "double double" is a coffee with two standard units each of
>>> milk and sugar.
>>>
>>
>> <snip the rest>
>>
>> "standard units"?
>
> Well, yeah. You can say "... with two milk and two sugar", so some kind
> of standard unit is implied, and it's not the same unit for both milk
> and sugar.
I had no idea what you meant by "standard units." There are no "standard
> * Sam Plusnet:
>
>> On 04-May-21 23:01, Quinn C wrote:
>>
>>> In Canada, a "double double" is a coffee with two standard units each of
>>> milk and sugar.
>>>
>>
>> <snip the rest>
>>
>> "standard units"?
>
> Well, yeah. You can say "... with two milk and two sugar", so some kind
> of standard unit is implied, and it's not the same unit for both milk
> and sugar.
units" as far as I'm concerned.
I think "two sugars" would be widely understood to mean two cubes or two
teaspoonsful, but I wouldn't understand what "two milk" meant, and I
don't think most other people would either.
--
Ken
Ken Blake
May 5, 2021, 11:28:21 AM5/5/21
to
be. Moreover, I'm always suspicious of statistics like that; how can
they be so sure. They might be right, but maybe not.
--
Ken
charles
May 5, 2021, 11:46:15 AM5/5/21
to
In article <iffrlk...@mid.individual.net>,
In a lot of places where one buys coffee over here, milk comes in little
plastic containers; 12 millilites each, according to Amazon
--
from KT24 in Surrey, England
"I'd rather die of exhaustion than die of boredom" Thomas Carlyle
plastic containers; 12 millilites each, according to Amazon
--
from KT24 in Surrey, England
"I'd rather die of exhaustion than die of boredom" Thomas Carlyle
occam
May 5, 2021, 11:48:08 AM5/5/21
to
On 04/05/2021 22:05, Stefan Ram wrote:
> In New York jargon, coffee with milk and sugar is called
> "regular coffee", but everywhere else a regular coffee
> is a coffee that is not decaffeinated.
>
> In New York jargon, coffee with milk and sugar is called
> "regular coffee", but everywhere else a regular coffee
> is a coffee that is not decaffeinated.
>
> Are there any other shorter expressions for "coffee with
> milk and sugar"? I read "American-style Coffee" for it.
> Maybe I can shorten this to just "American Coffee"?
> milk and sugar"? I read "American-style Coffee" for it.
> Maybe I can shorten this to just "American Coffee"?
> (Not to be confused with "Caffè Americano", though.)
>
>
> I suppose one cannot use "Latte" or "Cafe au Lait" as
> this would already include specific preparation methods.
>
> this would already include specific preparation methods.
>
> (To be specific, if this should matter: I refer to sugar and
> whole diary milk added to drip or instant coffee, so that
> the drink then consists of about 20 percent of whole diary
> milk - drunk hot or cold.)
>
>
I propose 'builder's coffee' for the Brits. Although the expression does
> whole diary milk added to drip or instant coffee, so that
> the drink then consists of about 20 percent of whole diary
> milk - drunk hot or cold.)
>
>
not exist for coffee, 'builder's tea' is definitely a thing. It is white
tea with (lots of) sugar.
Tony Cooper
May 5, 2021, 11:48:35 AM5/5/21
to
On Wed, 5 May 2021 08:24:36 -0700, Ken Blake <k...@invalidemail.com>
wrote:
>On 5/5/2021 6:54 AM, Quinn C wrote:
>> * Sam Plusnet:
>>
>>> On 04-May-21 23:01, Quinn C wrote:
>>>
>>>> In Canada, a "double double" is a coffee with two standard units each of
>>>> milk and sugar.
>>>>
>>>
>>> <snip the rest>
>>>
>>> "standard units"?
>>
>> Well, yeah. You can say "... with two milk and two sugar", so some kind
>> of standard unit is implied, and it's not the same unit for both milk
>> and sugar.
>
>
>I had no idea what you meant by "standard units." There are no "standard
>units" as far as I'm concerned.
I take it to mean "What is standard to the person doing it". In my
case, one teaspoon of sugar is the standard unit that I add to coffee
at home. Two packets of sugar is the standard unit I add to coffee
where loose sugar is not available.
The "milk" standard unit is a splash.
If I were to ask my wife to bring me a cup of coffee, she knows my
standard units. I should point out, though, that unless I'm ill or
otherwise incapacitated, she'll say "Get it yourself".
wrote:
>On 5/5/2021 6:54 AM, Quinn C wrote:
>> * Sam Plusnet:
>>
>>> On 04-May-21 23:01, Quinn C wrote:
>>>
>>>> In Canada, a "double double" is a coffee with two standard units each of
>>>> milk and sugar.
>>>>
>>>
>>> <snip the rest>
>>>
>>> "standard units"?
>>
>> Well, yeah. You can say "... with two milk and two sugar", so some kind
>> of standard unit is implied, and it's not the same unit for both milk
>> and sugar.
>
>
>I had no idea what you meant by "standard units." There are no "standard
>units" as far as I'm concerned.
case, one teaspoon of sugar is the standard unit that I add to coffee
at home. Two packets of sugar is the standard unit I add to coffee
where loose sugar is not available.
The "milk" standard unit is a splash.
If I were to ask my wife to bring me a cup of coffee, she knows my
standard units. I should point out, though, that unless I'm ill or
otherwise incapacitated, she'll say "Get it yourself".
Jerry Friedman
May 5, 2021, 11:48:55 AM5/5/21
to
--
Jerry Friedman
Tony Cooper
May 5, 2021, 11:54:56 AM5/5/21
to
On Wed, 5 May 2021 08:17:56 -0700 (PDT), Jerry Friedman
<jerry_f...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>On Wednesday, May 5, 2021 at 5:13:17 AM UTC-6, Lewis wrote:
>> In message <coffee-202...@ram.dialup.fu-berlin.de> Stefan Ram <r...@zedat.fu-berlin.de> wrote:
>> > In New York jargon, coffee with milk and sugar is called
>> > "regular coffee", but everywhere else a regular coffee
>> > is a coffee that is not decaffeinated.
>
>> Um.. nor necessarily.
>
>
>> > Are there any other shorter expressions for "coffee with
>> > milk and sugar"? I read "American-style Coffee" for it.
>> > Maybe I can shorten this to just "American Coffee"?
>
>> Not at all. I suspect most Americans drink their coffee black, with no
>> milk or sugar. That is to say, when drinking coffee and not coffee laced
>> beverages from certain Seattle companies.
>...
>
>"About 35% of coffee consumers usually drink black coffee." They're
>talking about Americans and using "black" in the same sense as you,
>but I don't know whether they're counting coffee-laced beverages from
>those Seattle companies.
>
There must be a lot of coffee-with-milk drinkers. The area in the
<jerry_f...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>On Wednesday, May 5, 2021 at 5:13:17 AM UTC-6, Lewis wrote:
>> In message <coffee-202...@ram.dialup.fu-berlin.de> Stefan Ram <r...@zedat.fu-berlin.de> wrote:
>> > In New York jargon, coffee with milk and sugar is called
>> > "regular coffee", but everywhere else a regular coffee
>> > is a coffee that is not decaffeinated.
>
>> Um.. nor necessarily.
>
>
>> > Are there any other shorter expressions for "coffee with
>> > milk and sugar"? I read "American-style Coffee" for it.
>> > Maybe I can shorten this to just "American Coffee"?
>
>> Not at all. I suspect most Americans drink their coffee black, with no
>> milk or sugar. That is to say, when drinking coffee and not coffee laced
>> beverages from certain Seattle companies.
>...
>
>"About 35% of coffee consumers usually drink black coffee." They're
>talking about Americans and using "black" in the same sense as you,
>but I don't know whether they're counting coffee-laced beverages from
>those Seattle companies.
>
supermarket that sells artificial creamers has several shelf-feet of
choices.
We use Nestle Coffee mate. It is neither milk nor cream, but what we
offer if someone wants milk or cream in their coffee.
Lewis
May 5, 2021, 12:21:59 PM5/5/21
to
In message <5m759ghj4f06cc78r...@4ax.com> Bill Day <extreeN...@verizon.net> wrote:
> On Wed, 5 May 2021 11:13:13 -0000 (UTC), Lewis
> <g.k...@kreme.dont-email.me> wrote:
>>In message <coffee-202...@ram.dialup.fu-berlin.de> Stefan Ram <r...@zedat.fu-berlin.de> wrote:
>>I suspect most Americans drink their coffee black, with no milk or
>>sugar. That is to say, when drinking coffee and not coffee laced
>>beverages from certain Seattle companies.
>>
> Not in MY experience. Most people I have known do use milk. I do not.
I have often been at a table of 8 people drinking coffee and I am the
> On Wed, 5 May 2021 11:13:13 -0000 (UTC), Lewis
> <g.k...@kreme.dont-email.me> wrote:
>>In message <coffee-202...@ram.dialup.fu-berlin.de> Stefan Ram <r...@zedat.fu-berlin.de> wrote:
>>I suspect most Americans drink their coffee black, with no milk or
>>sugar. That is to say, when drinking coffee and not coffee laced
>>beverages from certain Seattle companies.
>>
> Not in MY experience. Most people I have known do use milk. I do not.
only one not drinking in black, but how common that is? I can't say.
But I don't recall every seeing anyone put milk in coffee voluntarily.
In some coffee related drinks, sure, but we are talking about drip-style
generic american joe here, not espresso drinks.
>>In many restaurants, you have to specifically ask for half-and-half for
>>your coffee, the assumption is you'll be drinking it without cream.
>>And there is not one common amount of sugar and cream people use, and
>>most people do not put milk in their coffee even if they do put
>>something in their coffee. Milk is for tea, and is not able to compete
>>with the coffee unless you mix it at about a 1:1 ratio.
> ????
> Very strange generalization. How can you know what most people, let
> alone most Americans do?
drip coffee when cream was available. Not once. I have never seen
a waiter or a restaurant offer milk to a coffee drinker. I have seen
people but a lot of terrible shit into coffee (a wide variety of
non-dairy oil-based products flavored with used socks and wet diapers),
but not milk.
> And I have NEVER put milk in tea, and will never ruin a cup of tea
certainly many.
<https://teahow.com/can-you-have-tea-without-milk-heres-when-to-have-milk/>
> that way. I also never use a teabag... which I suspect is one reason
> people choose to cut the taste with milk! Tea comes in a wide variety
> of flavors if one bothers to use good, loose tea.... and milk would
> totally disguise the distinctive flavor(s).
that is jut a fact. When you add the milk to the tea is a bone of
contention in the UK, with many loud arguments about it.
<https://www.worldteanews.com/issues-trends/british-survey-looks-brewing-tea-bags-non-dairy-milk-options>
But the assumption is that you will put milk in the tea.
--
"Are you pondering what I'm pondering?"
"Well, I think so -POIT- but where do you stick the feather and call
it macaroni?"
Lewis
May 5, 2021, 12:23:57 PM5/5/21
to
In message <8ec42e88-8fa3-4b1e...@googlegroups.com> Jerry Friedman <jerry_f...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> On Wednesday, May 5, 2021 at 5:13:17 AM UTC-6, Lewis wrote:
>> In message <coffee-202...@ram.dialup.fu-berlin.de> Stefan Ram <r...@zedat.fu-berlin.de> wrote:
>> > In New York jargon, coffee with milk and sugar is called
>> > "regular coffee", but everywhere else a regular coffee
>> > is a coffee that is not decaffeinated.
>> Um.. nor necessarily.
>> > Are there any other shorter expressions for "coffee with
>> > milk and sugar"? I read "American-style Coffee" for it.
>> > Maybe I can shorten this to just "American Coffee"?
>> Not at all. I suspect most Americans drink their coffee black, with no
>> milk or sugar. That is to say, when drinking coffee and not coffee laced
>> beverages from certain Seattle companies.
> ...
> "About 35% of coffee consumers usually drink black coffee." They're
> talking about Americans and using "black" in the same sense as you,
> but I don't know whether they're counting coffee-laced beverages from
> those Seattle companies.
That does seem lower than I expected as I am often the only person not
> On Wednesday, May 5, 2021 at 5:13:17 AM UTC-6, Lewis wrote:
>> In message <coffee-202...@ram.dialup.fu-berlin.de> Stefan Ram <r...@zedat.fu-berlin.de> wrote:
>> > In New York jargon, coffee with milk and sugar is called
>> > "regular coffee", but everywhere else a regular coffee
>> > is a coffee that is not decaffeinated.
>> Um.. nor necessarily.
>> > Are there any other shorter expressions for "coffee with
>> > milk and sugar"? I read "American-style Coffee" for it.
>> > Maybe I can shorten this to just "American Coffee"?
>> Not at all. I suspect most Americans drink their coffee black, with no
>> milk or sugar. That is to say, when drinking coffee and not coffee laced
>> beverages from certain Seattle companies.
> ...
> "About 35% of coffee consumers usually drink black coffee." They're
> talking about Americans and using "black" in the same sense as you,
> but I don't know whether they're counting coffee-laced beverages from
> those Seattle companies.
drinking it black. It would be interesting if they are including latte
drinkers though, because that would skew the number wildly.
--
I loved you when our love was blessed I love you now there's nothing
left But sorrow and a sense of overtime
musika
May 5, 2021, 12:47:41 PM5/5/21
to
--
Ray
UK
charles
May 5, 2021, 1:46:15 PM5/5/21
to
In article <ifft1l...@mid.individual.net>,
Tea, here, ranges from gnat's piss - strong enough for a gnat to skate on,
to Builder's Tea - strong enough for an elephant to skate on,.
to Builder's Tea - strong enough for an elephant to skate on,.
Jerry Friedman
May 5, 2021, 1:47:48 PM5/5/21
to
On Wednesday, May 5, 2021 at 10:23:57 AM UTC-6, Lewis wrote:
> In message <8ec42e88-8fa3-4b1e...@googlegroups.com> Jerry Friedman <jerry_f...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > On Wednesday, May 5, 2021 at 5:13:17 AM UTC-6, Lewis wrote:
> >> In message <coffee-202...@ram.dialup.fu-berlin.de> Stefan Ram <r...@zedat.fu-berlin.de> wrote:
...
> In message <8ec42e88-8fa3-4b1e...@googlegroups.com> Jerry Friedman <jerry_f...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > On Wednesday, May 5, 2021 at 5:13:17 AM UTC-6, Lewis wrote:
> >> In message <coffee-202...@ram.dialup.fu-berlin.de> Stefan Ram <r...@zedat.fu-berlin.de> wrote:
> >> > Are there any other shorter expressions for "coffee with
> >> > milk and sugar"? I read "American-style Coffee" for it.
> >> > Maybe I can shorten this to just "American Coffee"?
>
> >> Not at all. I suspect most Americans drink their coffee black, with no
> >> milk or sugar. That is to say, when drinking coffee and not coffee laced
> >> beverages from certain Seattle companies.
> > ...
>
> > "About 35% of coffee consumers usually drink black coffee." They're
> > talking about Americans and using "black" in the same sense as you,
> > but I don't know whether they're counting coffee-laced beverages from
> > those Seattle companies.
> That does seem lower than I expected as I am often the only person not
> drinking it black. It would be interesting if they are including latte
> drinkers though, because that would skew the number wildly.
--
Jerry Friedman
bruce bowser
May 5, 2021, 2:32:40 PM5/5/21
to
Coffee with a lot of milk is called café au lait in french. I bet that was what OP was looking for.
Graham
May 5, 2021, 2:51:19 PM5/5/21
to
get pretty strong.
At a B&B in the south of Western Australia, the owner prevented the tea
"stewing", i.e., extracting too much tannin, by adding a pinch of sodium
bicarbonate. I'd never encountered that before, and haven't since.
Lewis
May 5, 2021, 2:55:33 PM5/5/21
to
American style drip coffee. It's a different thing.
--
"Are you pondering what I'm pondering?"
Dance'?"
Lewis
May 5, 2021, 2:57:46 PM5/5/21
to
the sides.
--
Y is for YORRICK whose head was knocked in
Z is for ZILLAH who drank too much gin
Peter T. Daniels
May 5, 2021, 3:25:02 PM5/5/21
to
But Chicagoans have a fit if you put ketchup on a hot dog.
Go figure.
occam
May 5, 2021, 4:14:13 PM5/5/21
to
Jerry Friedman
May 5, 2021, 4:15:48 PM5/5/21
to
tried a quick look, though no doubt one could do better.)
--
Jerry Friedman
Anders D. Nygaard
May 5, 2021, 4:40:34 PM5/5/21
to
Den 05-05-2021 kl. 18:21 skrev Lewis:
> But I don't recall every seeing anyone put milk in coffee voluntarily.
Then you have not seen my brother. Even when cream is available,
> But I don't recall every seeing anyone put milk in coffee voluntarily.
he prefers milk.
/Anders, Denmark
musika
May 5, 2021, 5:35:45 PM5/5/21
to
--
Ray
UK
Ken Blake
May 5, 2021, 5:49:06 PM5/5/21
to
stores. So yes, I suppose "two milks" would be understood in a restaurant.
--
Ken
Ken Blake
May 5, 2021, 5:52:30 PM5/5/21
to
On 5/5/2021 11:55 AM, Lewis wrote:
> In message <dec94afc-7e0c-4e32...@googlegroups.com> Jerry Friedman <jerry_f...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>> On Wednesday, May 5, 2021 at 10:23:57 AM UTC-6, Lewis wrote:
>>> In message <8ec42e88-8fa3-4b1e...@googlegroups.com> Jerry Friedman <jerry_f...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>> > On Wednesday, May 5, 2021 at 5:13:17 AM UTC-6, Lewis wrote:
>>> >> In message <coffee-202...@ram.dialup.fu-berlin.de> Stefan Ram <r...@zedat.fu-berlin.de> wrote:
>> ...
>
>>> >> > Are there any other shorter expressions for "coffee with
>>> >> > milk and sugar"? I read "American-style Coffee" for it.
>>> >> > Maybe I can shorten this to just "American Coffee"?
>>>
>>> >> Not at all. I suspect most Americans drink their coffee black, with no
>>> >> milk or sugar. That is to say, when drinking coffee and not coffee laced
>>> >> beverages from certain Seattle companies.
>>> > ...
>>>
>>> > "About 35% of coffee consumers usually drink black coffee." They're
>>> > talking about Americans and using "black" in the same sense as you,
>>> > but I don't know whether they're counting coffee-laced beverages from
>>> > those Seattle companies.
>
>>> That does seem lower than I expected as I am often the only person not
>>> drinking it black. It would be interesting if they are including latte
>>> drinkers though, because that would skew the number wildly.
>
>> Well, I'd say excluding latte would skew the number.
>
> A latte is an espresso drink.
Having posted about this before, I'll bite my tongue.
> In message <dec94afc-7e0c-4e32...@googlegroups.com> Jerry Friedman <jerry_f...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>> On Wednesday, May 5, 2021 at 10:23:57 AM UTC-6, Lewis wrote:
>>> In message <8ec42e88-8fa3-4b1e...@googlegroups.com> Jerry Friedman <jerry_f...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>> > On Wednesday, May 5, 2021 at 5:13:17 AM UTC-6, Lewis wrote:
>>> >> In message <coffee-202...@ram.dialup.fu-berlin.de> Stefan Ram <r...@zedat.fu-berlin.de> wrote:
>> ...
>
>>> >> > Are there any other shorter expressions for "coffee with
>>> >> > milk and sugar"? I read "American-style Coffee" for it.
>>> >> > Maybe I can shorten this to just "American Coffee"?
>>>
>>> >> Not at all. I suspect most Americans drink their coffee black, with no
>>> >> milk or sugar. That is to say, when drinking coffee and not coffee laced
>>> >> beverages from certain Seattle companies.
>>> > ...
>>>
>>> > "About 35% of coffee consumers usually drink black coffee." They're
>>> > talking about Americans and using "black" in the same sense as you,
>>> > but I don't know whether they're counting coffee-laced beverages from
>>> > those Seattle companies.
>
>>> That does seem lower than I expected as I am often the only person not
>>> drinking it black. It would be interesting if they are including latte
>>> drinkers though, because that would skew the number wildly.
>
>> Well, I'd say excluding latte would skew the number.
>
> A latte is an espresso drink.
--
Ken
Quinn C
May 5, 2021, 8:04:43 PM5/5/21
to
* Ken Blake:
The little containers are available in grocery stores, but I don't think
many people would buy them.
At home, it's rarely necessary to communicate one's preference in such
exact terms to another person. It the amount is important, one can
usually add it oneself.
--
They spend so much time fussing about my identity
that I really shouldn't have to bother with it
myself at all.
-- Margaret Atwood, The Edible Woman, p.223
many people would buy them.
At home, it's rarely necessary to communicate one's preference in such
exact terms to another person. It the amount is important, one can
usually add it oneself.
--
They spend so much time fussing about my identity
that I really shouldn't have to bother with it
myself at all.
-- Margaret Atwood, The Edible Woman, p.223
Bill Day
May 5, 2021, 8:48:05 PM5/5/21
to
On Wed, 5 May 2021 12:24:59 -0700 (PDT), "Peter T. Daniels"
Yuck, says I...
>Go figure.
It's 'what you grew up with'. It doesn't have to make sense.
--
remove nonsense for reply
>But Chicagoans have a fit if you put ketchup on a hot dog.
>
I'll hide it...
>
>Go figure.
It's 'what you grew up with'. It doesn't have to make sense.
--
remove nonsense for reply
Sam Plusnet
May 5, 2021, 9:27:06 PM5/5/21
to
--
Sam Plusnet
Wales, UK
Peter Moylan
May 5, 2021, 10:32:13 PM5/5/21
to
On 06/05/21 00:54, Quinn C wrote:
> * Sam Plusnet:
>
>> On 04-May-21 23:01, Quinn C wrote:
>>
>>> In Canada, a "double double" is a coffee with two standard units
>>> each of milk and sugar.
>>>
>>
>> <snip the rest>
>>
>> "standard units"?
>
> Well, yeah. You can say "... with two milk and two sugar", so some
> kind of standard unit is implied, and it's not the same unit for both
> milk and sugar.
>
> I never quite understood what it is. In gastronomical settings, it'd
> * Sam Plusnet:
>
>> On 04-May-21 23:01, Quinn C wrote:
>>
>>> In Canada, a "double double" is a coffee with two standard units
>>> each of milk and sugar.
>>>
>>
>> <snip the rest>
>>
>> "standard units"?
>
> Well, yeah. You can say "... with two milk and two sugar", so some
> kind of standard unit is implied, and it's not the same unit for both
> milk and sugar.
>
> often be one sachet of sugar (when I was a child: one cube of sugar)
> and one little cup of milk (not around yet when I was a child), but
> how that translates to anything I'd use at home, like spoons, I don't
> know.
When I first visited the USA, one of my biggest language problems was
how to order a meal in a breakfast place. All I wanted was fried eggs
with the white solid and the yolk liquid, plus some bacon, but the way
to say that seemed to vary all over the place.
--
Peter Moylan Newcastle, NSW http://www.pmoylan.org
Peter Moylan
May 5, 2021, 10:39:13 PM5/5/21
to
and added by the customer, not the server.
Some Australians will order coffee with "milk on the side". That means a
little pot of milk, from which the customer can pour exactly what they
want. That makes sense given the wide range of preferences from "just a
couple of drops of milk" to "very white".
Of course you don't get those choices in the less classy places that
serve coffee in disposable cups, but in those places you don't expect
good coffee anyway.
Peter Moylan
May 5, 2021, 10:48:00 PM5/5/21
to
the stuff that I call cream. Nobody in this country puts cream in coffee.
Since cream is just what is taken from the top of the milk, its
definition varies between countries. The cream that I've seen in US
restaurants is not a lot different from what I call milk. (But, for
coffee, it's still not as good as milk.) You can't properly define cream
unless you start specifying things like fat content.
Peter Moylan
May 5, 2021, 10:52:10 PM5/5/21
to
On 06/05/21 05:51, Graham wrote:
> In the 50s, transport cafes served it from gigantic teapots and it
> could get pretty strong. At a B&B in the south of Western Australia,
> the owner prevented the tea "stewing", i.e., extracting too much
> tannin, by adding a pinch of sodium bicarbonate. I'd never
> encountered that before, and haven't since.
Some people used to add eggshells to the pot, probably for the same
> In the 50s, transport cafes served it from gigantic teapots and it
> could get pretty strong. At a B&B in the south of Western Australia,
> the owner prevented the tea "stewing", i.e., extracting too much
> tannin, by adding a pinch of sodium bicarbonate. I'd never
> encountered that before, and haven't since.
reason. I don't know whether that's still done by anyone.
Jerry Friedman
May 5, 2021, 11:16:50 PM5/5/21
to
On Wednesday, May 5, 2021 at 8:48:00 PM UTC-6, Peter Moylan wrote:
> On 06/05/21 07:40, Anders D. Nygaard wrote:
> > Den 05-05-2021 kl. 18:21 skrev Lewis:
>
> >> But I don't recall every seeing anyone put milk in coffee
> >> voluntarily.
> >
> > Then you have not seen my brother. Even when cream is available, he
> > prefers milk.
> Cream in coffee makes the coffee taste disgusting. But that's when it's
> the stuff that I call cream. Nobody in this country puts cream in coffee.
>
> Since cream is just what is taken from the top of the milk, its
> definition varies between countries. The cream that I've seen in US
> restaurants is not a lot different from what I call milk.
Your cream is probably something like our whipping cream or
> On 06/05/21 07:40, Anders D. Nygaard wrote:
> > Den 05-05-2021 kl. 18:21 skrev Lewis:
>
> >> But I don't recall every seeing anyone put milk in coffee
> >> voluntarily.
> >
> > Then you have not seen my brother. Even when cream is available, he
> > prefers milk.
> Cream in coffee makes the coffee taste disgusting. But that's when it's
> the stuff that I call cream. Nobody in this country puts cream in coffee.
>
> Since cream is just what is taken from the top of the milk, its
> definition varies between countries. The cream that I've seen in US
> restaurants is not a lot different from what I call milk.
heavy cream, which is around 35% butterfat. Our coffee cream
has about half that butterfat content, as Lewis implied.
As I say every time this comes up, heavy cream is less dense than
light cream. Maybe it's named after its effect on you.
> (But, for
> coffee, it's still not as good as milk.) You can't properly define cream
> unless you start specifying things like fat content.
I believe there are finer gradations than I mentioned.
Is there a name for the 18-20% stuff in your country?
--
Jerry Friedman
Jerry Friedman
May 5, 2021, 11:27:40 PM5/5/21
to
Did you want the yolks as raw as possible or lightly cooked? The former,
is "sunny-side up" everywhere I've been, and "over light" and "over easy"
would be understood to be the latter everywhere I've been. If you wanted
hot fat spooned over them to cook the yolks lightly, that's kind of
regional, and you might not be able to get it everywhere. The term I
know for that is "basted".
We've discussed "bacon" repeatedly. If you wanted the stuff that's less
than half fat, I can imagine two terms: "Canadian bacon" and "back bacon",
and I can imagine there are others.
If you didn't get what you wanted, I wonder whether it was sometimes
due to some cause other than them misunderstanding you.
--
Jerry Friedman
Tony Cooper
May 6, 2021, 12:04:15 AM5/6/21
to
On Thu, 6 May 2021 12:39:06 +1100, Peter Moylan
<pe...@pmoylan.org.invalid> wrote:
>On 06/05/21 02:44, charles wrote:
>> In article <iffrlk...@mid.individual.net>, Ken Blake
>> <k...@invalidemail.com> wrote:
>
>>> I had no idea what you meant by "standard units." There are no
>>> "standard units" as far as I'm concerned.
>>
>>> I think "two sugars" would be widely understood to mean two cubes
>>> or two teaspoonsful, but I wouldn't understand what "two milk"
>>> meant, and I don't think most other people would either.
>>
>> In a lot of places where one buys coffee over here, milk comes in
>> little plastic containers; 12 millilites each, according to Amazon
>
>Sugar is not an issue in coffee places here. The sugar is on the table,
>and added by the customer, not the server.
>
I don't think I've ever been in restaurant of any kind where the cream
<pe...@pmoylan.org.invalid> wrote:
>On 06/05/21 02:44, charles wrote:
>> In article <iffrlk...@mid.individual.net>, Ken Blake
>> <k...@invalidemail.com> wrote:
>
>>> I had no idea what you meant by "standard units." There are no
>>> "standard units" as far as I'm concerned.
>>
>>> I think "two sugars" would be widely understood to mean two cubes
>>> or two teaspoonsful, but I wouldn't understand what "two milk"
>>> meant, and I don't think most other people would either.
>>
>> In a lot of places where one buys coffee over here, milk comes in
>> little plastic containers; 12 millilites each, according to Amazon
>
>Sugar is not an issue in coffee places here. The sugar is on the table,
>and added by the customer, not the server.
>
or sugar was added to the coffee by the waitperson who was serving me
when I was at a table or counter. Even in that Boston restaurant I
mention where the waitress asked if I wanted "regular", the purpose of
the question was to determine if she needed to put the sugar jar and
creamer on the counter near me.
Where cream and sugar are added by the staff is when coffee-to-go is
ordered. I ask for an empty cup, add the sugar and cream, and then
hand the cup back to be filled. I want my right "standard units".
"Cream", by the way, is used as a generic term for whatever white
liquid is available. Rarely is it a product of a cow.
>Some Australians will order coffee with "milk on the side". That means a
>little pot of milk, from which the customer can pour exactly what they
>want. That makes sense given the wide range of preferences from "just a
>couple of drops of milk" to "very white".
>
>Of course you don't get those choices in the less classy places that
>serve coffee in disposable cups, but in those places you don't expect
>good coffee anyway.
--
Tony Cooper Orlando Florida
Peter Moylan
May 6, 2021, 12:58:35 AM5/6/21
to
some requirements for milkfat concentration, taken from the web.
Milk minimum 32 g/kg
Skim milk maximum 1.5 g/kg
(I've omitted the parts of the rules that don't relate to fat.)
For cream, the legal requirement is "no less than 35% milk fat". There's
also something called "double cream" (48% or more) that's good for some
desserts. Clotted cream and sour cream and crème fraiche are all like
double cream in fat content, but each with its own different taste.
Thickened cream is 35% cream with added thickeners like gelatin.
There are 18% versions of sour cream and thickened cream. These are
called "light" or "reduced fat". I'm still searching for an 18% version
of ordinary cream.
Ah, here it is. Light cream may contain between 18% and 30% fat, but
most typically it is 20%. I've heard of people putting it in coffee, but
that's rare, and in my experience it tastes horrible in coffee. It's
marketed to people who think it will help them lose weight.
Athel Cornish-Bowden
May 6, 2021, 2:49:08 AM5/6/21
to
--
Athel -- British, living in France for 34 years
bruce bowser
May 6, 2021, 4:17:25 AM5/6/21
to
bruce bowser
May 6, 2021, 4:18:38 AM5/6/21
to
On Thursday, May 6, 2021 at 2:49:08 AM UTC-4, Athel Cornish-Bowden wrote:
> On 2021-05-06 01:27:01 +0000, Sam Plusnet said:
>
> > On 05-May-21 21:40, Anders D. Nygaard wrote:
> >> Den 05-05-2021 kl. 18:21 skrev Lewis:
> >>> But I don't recall every seeing anyone put milk in coffee voluntarily.
> >>
> >> Then you have not seen my brother. Even when cream is available,
> >> he prefers milk.
> >>
> >
> > I may not be your brother, but I share his tastes in this matter.
> So do most people outside North America.
Now. Is there any way you can REALLY know that for certain?
> On 2021-05-06 01:27:01 +0000, Sam Plusnet said:
>
> > On 05-May-21 21:40, Anders D. Nygaard wrote:
> >> Den 05-05-2021 kl. 18:21 skrev Lewis:
> >>> But I don't recall every seeing anyone put milk in coffee voluntarily.
> >>
> >> Then you have not seen my brother. Even when cream is available,
> >> he prefers milk.
> >>
> >
> > I may not be your brother, but I share his tastes in this matter.
> So do most people outside North America.
musika
May 6, 2021, 6:42:22 AM5/6/21
to
On 06/05/2021 04:16, Jerry Friedman wrote:
> Is there a name for the 18-20% stuff in your country?
>
Here the main designations are
> Is there a name for the 18-20% stuff in your country?
>
Single cream - c. 18%
Whipping cream - c. 36%
Double cream - c. 48%
--
Ray
UK
Lewis
May 6, 2021, 9:26:38 AM5/6/21
to
In message <r7q69g97ett22toag...@4ax.com> Tony Cooper <tonyco...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Thu, 6 May 2021 12:39:06 +1100, Peter Moylan
> <pe...@pmoylan.org.invalid> wrote:
>>On 06/05/21 02:44, charles wrote:
>>> In article <iffrlk...@mid.individual.net>, Ken Blake
>>> <k...@invalidemail.com> wrote:
>>
>>>> I had no idea what you meant by "standard units." There are no
>>>> "standard units" as far as I'm concerned.
>>>
>>>> I think "two sugars" would be widely understood to mean two cubes
>>>> or two teaspoonsful, but I wouldn't understand what "two milk"
>>>> meant, and I don't think most other people would either.
>>>
>>> In a lot of places where one buys coffee over here, milk comes in
>>> little plastic containers; 12 millilites each, according to Amazon
>>
>>Sugar is not an issue in coffee places here. The sugar is on the table,
>>and added by the customer, not the server.
>>
> I don't think I've ever been in restaurant of any kind where the cream
> or sugar was added to the coffee by the waitperson who was serving me
> when I was at a table or counter. Even in that Boston restaurant I
> mention where the waitress asked if I wanted "regular", the purpose of
> the question was to determine if she needed to put the sugar jar and
> creamer on the counter near me.
Except for Dunkin Donuts and Tim Horton;s, which add the cream and
> On Thu, 6 May 2021 12:39:06 +1100, Peter Moylan
> <pe...@pmoylan.org.invalid> wrote:
>>On 06/05/21 02:44, charles wrote:
>>> In article <iffrlk...@mid.individual.net>, Ken Blake
>>> <k...@invalidemail.com> wrote:
>>
>>>> I had no idea what you meant by "standard units." There are no
>>>> "standard units" as far as I'm concerned.
>>>
>>>> I think "two sugars" would be widely understood to mean two cubes
>>>> or two teaspoonsful, but I wouldn't understand what "two milk"
>>>> meant, and I don't think most other people would either.
>>>
>>> In a lot of places where one buys coffee over here, milk comes in
>>> little plastic containers; 12 millilites each, according to Amazon
>>
>>Sugar is not an issue in coffee places here. The sugar is on the table,
>>and added by the customer, not the server.
>>
> I don't think I've ever been in restaurant of any kind where the cream
> or sugar was added to the coffee by the waitperson who was serving me
> when I was at a table or counter. Even in that Boston restaurant I
> mention where the waitress asked if I wanted "regular", the purpose of
> the question was to determine if she needed to put the sugar jar and
> creamer on the counter near me.
sugar/sweetner for you.
> Where cream and sugar are added by the staff is when coffee-to-go is
> ordered.
with sugar and splenda and saccharine and cream for people to add their
own to the coffee. This is how nearly all of them work, even gas
station convenience stores and there are very few exceptions beyond the
two I mentioned.
Hmm.. Perhaps McDonald's does this as well. I know they do for the
drive-thru but they might also do it for dine-in customers. Most
drive-thrus though will give you two individual creams and two sugar
when you ask for "Coffee with two cream and two sugar". But it;s been a
good decade since i got coffee at a drive-thru.
> "Cream", by the way, is used as a generic term for whatever white
> liquid is available. Rarely is it a product of a cow.
sort of white oil non-dairy stuff. The exceptions will be places where
the coffee is being provided, but not sold (like say a PTA meeting).
>>Some Australians will order coffee with "milk on the side". That means a
>>little pot of milk, from which the customer can pour exactly what they
>>want. That makes sense given the wide range of preferences from "just a
>>couple of drops of milk" to "very white".
>>
>>Of course you don't get those choices in the less classy places that
>>serve coffee in disposable cups, but in those places you don't expect
>>good coffee anyway.
> Here, Dunkin Donuts serves very good coffee-to-go.
and been highly unimpressed. Maybe it really is a local thing.
Tim Horton's is a good cup of coffee if you're in Canada, and their
doughnuts are good too (I much prefer to them to Dunkin Donuts).
--
Hyman: Things on my head hurt.
Margo: Life is pain. Ovary up.
Hyman: I am not a hero. I am a man tethered to a machine for poop and
humiliation, and I abhor it. I said good day.
Tony Cooper
May 6, 2021, 9:37:22 AM5/6/21
to
they have both counter seating and counter service for to-go orders.
If you sit at the counter, the sugar/cream containers are on the
counter and you add your own. If you get coffee to-go, they will
either add those for you, or you can add them yourself using the
sugar/cream at a little station across from the counter.
Covid has changed things, though. Some Dunkin Donuts have suspended
the inside seating, and some that still have counter seating have
stopped serving coffee in china mugs and offer only styrofoam cups.
The counters remain in place, though, and I'm sure they haven't thrown
away the china mugs. One day we'll be back to normal.
We don't have Tim Horton's down here.
Lewis
May 6, 2021, 9:39:04 AM5/6/21
to
In message <s6vlcs$q24$1...@dont-email.me> Peter Moylan <pe...@pmoylan.org.invalid> wrote:
> On 06/05/21 07:40, Anders D. Nygaard wrote:
>> Den 05-05-2021 kl. 18:21 skrev Lewis:
>>> But I don't recall every seeing anyone put milk in coffee
>>> voluntarily.
>>
>> Then you have not seen my brother. Even when cream is available, he
>> prefers milk.
> Cream in coffee makes the coffee taste disgusting. But that's when it's
> the stuff that I call cream. Nobody in this country puts cream in coffee.
What is put in coffee is called "cream" only in relationship to coffee.
> On 06/05/21 07:40, Anders D. Nygaard wrote:
>> Den 05-05-2021 kl. 18:21 skrev Lewis:
>>> But I don't recall every seeing anyone put milk in coffee
>>> voluntarily.
>>
>> Then you have not seen my brother. Even when cream is available, he
>> prefers milk.
> Cream in coffee makes the coffee taste disgusting. But that's when it's
> the stuff that I call cream. Nobody in this country puts cream in coffee.
It is called "half-and-half" in the US and it is a mix of half milk and
half light cream, yielding a 'cream' that is about 8-10% milk fat
(compared to whole milk which is 3-4% or light cream which is 14-20%).
We do not confuse "half-and-half" with cream in cooking.
These numbers are guesses, since our labeling laws do not require that
things like the percentage of milk-fat be listed on the label, unlike
Canada which had a whole array of coffee cream and cream ranging from 0%
milk fat right on up to 36% *heavy whipping cream).
> Since cream is just what is taken from the top of the milk, its
> definition varies between countries.
coffee and American terms.
> The cream that I've seen in US restaurants is not a lot different from
> what I call milk. (But, for coffee, it's still not as good as milk.)
> You can't properly define cream unless you start specifying things
> like fat content.
--
'Why don't I feel angry?' GLANDS, said Death shortly. ADRENALIN AND
SO FORTH. AND EMOTIONS. YOU DON'T HAVE THEM. ALL YOU HAVE NOW IS
THOUGHT.
Lewis
May 6, 2021, 9:52:17 AM5/6/21
to
In message <s6vlkm$q24$2...@dont-email.me> Peter Moylan <pe...@pmoylan.org.invalid> wrote:
> On 06/05/21 05:51, Graham wrote:
>> In the 50s, transport cafes served it from gigantic teapots and it
>> could get pretty strong. At a B&B in the south of Western Australia,
>> the owner prevented the tea "stewing", i.e., extracting too much
>> tannin, by adding a pinch of sodium bicarbonate. I'd never
>> encountered that before, and haven't since.
> Some people used to add eggshells to the pot, probably for the same
> reason. I don't know whether that's still done by anyone.
Eggshells were used because they had some sort f effect on the coffee
> On 06/05/21 05:51, Graham wrote:
>> In the 50s, transport cafes served it from gigantic teapots and it
>> could get pretty strong. At a B&B in the south of Western Australia,
>> the owner prevented the tea "stewing", i.e., extracting too much
>> tannin, by adding a pinch of sodium bicarbonate. I'd never
>> encountered that before, and haven't since.
> Some people used to add eggshells to the pot, probably for the same
> reason. I don't know whether that's still done by anyone.
grounds. I don't recall the specifics, but I think it caused them to
settle or clump together so the grounds didn't end up in the cup.
--
The only good thing ever to come out of religion was the music.
Lewis
May 6, 2021, 9:57:51 AM5/6/21
to
In message <24a3c9ae-1a0d-465e...@googlegroups.com> Jerry Friedman <jerry_f...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> On Wednesday, May 5, 2021 at 8:32:13 PM UTC-6, Peter Moylan wrote:
>> On 06/05/21 00:54, Quinn C wrote:
>> > * Sam Plusnet:
>> >
>> >> On 04-May-21 23:01, Quinn C wrote:
>> >>
>> >>> In Canada, a "double double" is a coffee with two standard units
>> >>> each of milk and sugar.
>> >>>
>> >>
>> >> <snip the rest>
>> >>
>> >> "standard units"?
>> >
>> > Well, yeah. You can say "... with two milk and two sugar", so some
>> > kind of standard unit is implied, and it's not the same unit for both
>> > milk and sugar.
>> >
>> > I never quite understood what it is. In gastronomical settings, it'd
>> > often be one sachet of sugar (when I was a child: one cube of sugar)
>> > and one little cup of milk (not around yet when I was a child), but
>> > how that translates to anything I'd use at home, like spoons, I don't
>> > know.
>>
>> When I first visited the USA, one of my biggest language problems was
>> how to order a meal in a breakfast place. All I wanted was fried eggs
>> with the white solid and the yolk liquid, plus some bacon, but the way
>> to say that seemed to vary all over the place.
Odd. That would be "sunny side up with bacon" I think everywhere. It is
> On Wednesday, May 5, 2021 at 8:32:13 PM UTC-6, Peter Moylan wrote:
>> On 06/05/21 00:54, Quinn C wrote:
>> > * Sam Plusnet:
>> >
>> >> On 04-May-21 23:01, Quinn C wrote:
>> >>
>> >>> In Canada, a "double double" is a coffee with two standard units
>> >>> each of milk and sugar.
>> >>>
>> >>
>> >> <snip the rest>
>> >>
>> >> "standard units"?
>> >
>> > Well, yeah. You can say "... with two milk and two sugar", so some
>> > kind of standard unit is implied, and it's not the same unit for both
>> > milk and sugar.
>> >
>> > I never quite understood what it is. In gastronomical settings, it'd
>> > often be one sachet of sugar (when I was a child: one cube of sugar)
>> > and one little cup of milk (not around yet when I was a child), but
>> > how that translates to anything I'd use at home, like spoons, I don't
>> > know.
>>
>> When I first visited the USA, one of my biggest language problems was
>> how to order a meal in a breakfast place. All I wanted was fried eggs
>> with the white solid and the yolk liquid, plus some bacon, but the way
>> to say that seemed to vary all over the place.
generally how I order my eggs and I don't recall ever having a problem.
> Did you want the yolks as raw as possible or lightly cooked? The former,
> is "sunny-side up" everywhere I've been, and "over light" and "over easy"
> would be understood to be the latter everywhere I've been.
terms have been understood everywhere, even if there is another term
that is used as well.
--
"Are you pondering what I'm pondering?"
"Whuh... I think so, Brain, but... but if Charlton Heston doesn't eat
Soylent Green, what will he eat?"
Athel Cornish-Bowden
May 6, 2021, 10:10:38 AM5/6/21
to
On 2021-05-06 13:39:00 +0000, Lewis said:
> In message <s6vlcs$q24$1...@dont-email.me> Peter Moylan
> <pe...@pmoylan.org.invalid> wrote:
>> On 06/05/21 07:40, Anders D. Nygaard wrote:
>>> Den 05-05-2021 kl. 18:21 skrev Lewis:
>
>>>> But I don't recall every seeing anyone put milk in coffee
>>>> voluntarily.
>>>
>>> Then you have not seen my brother. Even when cream is available, he
>>> prefers milk.
>
>> Cream in coffee makes the coffee taste disgusting. But that's when it's
>> the stuff that I call cream. Nobody in this country puts cream in coffee.
>
> What is put in coffee is called "cream" only in relationship to coffee.
> It is called "half-and-half" in the US and it is a mix of half milk and
> half light cream, yielding a 'cream' that is about 8-10% milk fat
> (compared to whole milk which is 3-4% or light cream which is 14-20%).
> We do not confuse "half-and-half" with cream in cooking.
>
> These numbers are guesses, since our labeling laws do not require that
> things like the percentage of milk-fat be listed on the label, unlike
> Canada which had a whole array of coffee cream and cream ranging from 0%
> milk fat right on up to 36% *heavy whipping cream).
>
>> Since cream is just what is taken from the top of the milk, its
>> definition varies between countries.
The top of the milk also varies between breeds of cattle, Jersey has a
> In message <s6vlcs$q24$1...@dont-email.me> Peter Moylan
> <pe...@pmoylan.org.invalid> wrote:
>> On 06/05/21 07:40, Anders D. Nygaard wrote:
>>> Den 05-05-2021 kl. 18:21 skrev Lewis:
>
>>>> But I don't recall every seeing anyone put milk in coffee
>>>> voluntarily.
>>>
>>> Then you have not seen my brother. Even when cream is available, he
>>> prefers milk.
>
>> Cream in coffee makes the coffee taste disgusting. But that's when it's
>> the stuff that I call cream. Nobody in this country puts cream in coffee.
>
> What is put in coffee is called "cream" only in relationship to coffee.
> It is called "half-and-half" in the US and it is a mix of half milk and
> half light cream, yielding a 'cream' that is about 8-10% milk fat
> (compared to whole milk which is 3-4% or light cream which is 14-20%).
> We do not confuse "half-and-half" with cream in cooking.
>
> These numbers are guesses, since our labeling laws do not require that
> things like the percentage of milk-fat be listed on the label, unlike
> Canada which had a whole array of coffee cream and cream ranging from 0%
> milk fat right on up to 36% *heavy whipping cream).
>
>> Since cream is just what is taken from the top of the milk, its
>> definition varies between countries.
lot of cream, Friesian very little, which is why it's largely squeezed
out many other high-fat breeds in England (like South Devon) from the
market, because it's cheap to produce. Jersey is OK, because it made
the creaminess a selling point long ago. If you drive around the South
Devon countryside today the fields are full of Friesians; 50 years ago
they were full of South Devons.
>
> Yes, but gain, the OP was quite specific in asking about American drip
> coffee and American terms.
>
>> The cream that I've seen in US restaurants is not a lot different from
>> what I call milk. (But, for coffee, it's still not as good as milk.)
>> You can't properly define cream unless you start specifying things
>> like fat content.
>
> Which I am sure the US Government has done.
--
> Yes, but gain, the OP was quite specific in asking about American drip
> coffee and American terms.
>
>> The cream that I've seen in US restaurants is not a lot different from
>> what I call milk. (But, for coffee, it's still not as good as milk.)
>> You can't properly define cream unless you start specifying things
>> like fat content.
>
> Which I am sure the US Government has done.
--
Jerry Friedman
May 6, 2021, 10:29:48 AM5/6/21
to
On Thursday, May 6, 2021 at 7:39:04 AM UTC-6, Lewis wrote:
> In message <s6vlcs$q24$1...@dont-email.me> Peter Moylan <pe...@pmoylan.org.invalid> wrote:
> > On 06/05/21 07:40, Anders D. Nygaard wrote:
> >> Den 05-05-2021 kl. 18:21 skrev Lewis:
>
> >>> But I don't recall every seeing anyone put milk in coffee
> >>> voluntarily.
> >>
> >> Then you have not seen my brother. Even when cream is available, he
> >> prefers milk.
>
> > Cream in coffee makes the coffee taste disgusting. But that's when it's
> > the stuff that I call cream. Nobody in this country puts cream in coffee.
> What is put in coffee is called "cream" only in relationship to coffee.
> It is called "half-and-half" in the US and it is a mix of half milk and
> half light cream, yielding a 'cream' that is about 8-10% milk fat
> (compared to whole milk which is 3-4% or light cream which is 14-20%).
> We do not confuse "half-and-half" with cream in cooking.
Huh. I always thought half and half was half milk and half heavy cream,
> In message <s6vlcs$q24$1...@dont-email.me> Peter Moylan <pe...@pmoylan.org.invalid> wrote:
> > On 06/05/21 07:40, Anders D. Nygaard wrote:
> >> Den 05-05-2021 kl. 18:21 skrev Lewis:
>
> >>> But I don't recall every seeing anyone put milk in coffee
> >>> voluntarily.
> >>
> >> Then you have not seen my brother. Even when cream is available, he
> >> prefers milk.
>
> > Cream in coffee makes the coffee taste disgusting. But that's when it's
> > the stuff that I call cream. Nobody in this country puts cream in coffee.
> What is put in coffee is called "cream" only in relationship to coffee.
> It is called "half-and-half" in the US and it is a mix of half milk and
> half light cream, yielding a 'cream' that is about 8-10% milk fat
> (compared to whole milk which is 3-4% or light cream which is 14-20%).
> We do not confuse "half-and-half" with cream in cooking.
so the same as light cream, but this says half and half is half light cream
and half whole milk, or 12% milk fat.
https://www.thekitchn.com/whats-the-difference-between-half-and-half-light-cream-whipping-cream-and-heavy-cream-73203
> These numbers are guesses, since our labeling laws do not require that
> things like the percentage of milk-fat be listed on the label, unlike
> Canada which had a whole array of coffee cream and cream ranging from 0%
> milk fat right on up to 36% *heavy whipping cream).
But they do have to be labeled with grams of fat per serving. Borden's
half and half has 3.5 g of fat per 30 mL serving, which should be just
about 12% by weight.
--
Jerry Friedman
Mack A. Damia
May 6, 2021, 10:48:54 AM5/6/21
to
Ken Blake
May 6, 2021, 11:39:22 AM5/6/21
to
On 5/5/2021 8:27 PM, Jerry Friedman wrote:
> On Wednesday, May 5, 2021 at 8:32:13 PM UTC-6, Peter Moylan wrote:
>> On 06/05/21 00:54, Quinn C wrote:
>> > * Sam Plusnet:
>> >
>> >> On 04-May-21 23:01, Quinn C wrote:
>> >>
>> >>> In Canada, a "double double" is a coffee with two standard units
>> >>> each of milk and sugar.
>> >>>
>> >>
>> >> <snip the rest>
>> >>
>> >> "standard units"?
>> >
>> > Well, yeah. You can say "... with two milk and two sugar", so some
>> > kind of standard unit is implied, and it's not the same unit for both
>> > milk and sugar.
>> >
>> > I never quite understood what it is. In gastronomical settings, it'd
>> > often be one sachet of sugar (when I was a child: one cube of sugar)
>> > and one little cup of milk (not around yet when I was a child), but
>> > how that translates to anything I'd use at home, like spoons, I don't
>> > know.
>>
>> When I first visited the USA, one of my biggest language problems was
>> how to order a meal in a breakfast place. All I wanted was fried eggs
>> with the white solid and the yolk liquid, plus some bacon, but the way
>> to say that seemed to vary all over the place.
>
> I'm surprised.
>
> Did you want the yolks as raw as possible or lightly cooked? The former,
> is "sunny-side up" everywhere I've been, and "over light" and "over easy"
"Over easy" is what I say, and just ordered and got in a restaurant
> On Wednesday, May 5, 2021 at 8:32:13 PM UTC-6, Peter Moylan wrote:
>> On 06/05/21 00:54, Quinn C wrote:
>> > * Sam Plusnet:
>> >
>> >> On 04-May-21 23:01, Quinn C wrote:
>> >>
>> >>> In Canada, a "double double" is a coffee with two standard units
>> >>> each of milk and sugar.
>> >>>
>> >>
>> >> <snip the rest>
>> >>
>> >> "standard units"?
>> >
>> > Well, yeah. You can say "... with two milk and two sugar", so some
>> > kind of standard unit is implied, and it's not the same unit for both
>> > milk and sugar.
>> >
>> > I never quite understood what it is. In gastronomical settings, it'd
>> > often be one sachet of sugar (when I was a child: one cube of sugar)
>> > and one little cup of milk (not around yet when I was a child), but
>> > how that translates to anything I'd use at home, like spoons, I don't
>> > know.
>>
>> When I first visited the USA, one of my biggest language problems was
>> how to order a meal in a breakfast place. All I wanted was fried eggs
>> with the white solid and the yolk liquid, plus some bacon, but the way
>> to say that seemed to vary all over the place.
>
> I'm surprised.
>
> Did you want the yolks as raw as possible or lightly cooked? The former,
> is "sunny-side up" everywhere I've been, and "over light" and "over easy"
about an hour ago.
Yes, the others are also understood almost everywhere.
> would be understood to be the latter everywhere I've been. If you wanted
> hot fat spooned over them to cook the yolks lightly, that's kind of
> regional, and you might not be able to get it everywhere. The term I
> know for that is "basted".
>
> We've discussed "bacon" repeatedly. If you wanted the stuff that's less
> than half fat, I can imagine two terms: "Canadian bacon" and "back bacon",
> and I can imagine there are others.
--
Ken
Ken Blake
May 6, 2021, 11:44:47 AM5/6/21
to
On 5/5/2021 6:39 PM, Peter Moylan wrote:
> On 06/05/21 02:44, charles wrote:
>> In article <iffrlk...@mid.individual.net>, Ken Blake
>> <k...@invalidemail.com> wrote:
>
>>> I had no idea what you meant by "standard units." There are no
>>> "standard units" as far as I'm concerned.
>>
>>> I think "two sugars" would be widely understood to mean two cubes
>>> or two teaspoonsful, but I wouldn't understand what "two milk"
>>> meant, and I don't think most other people would either.
>>
>> In a lot of places where one buys coffee over here, milk comes in
>> little plastic containers; 12 millilites each, according to Amazon
>
> Sugar is not an issue in coffee places here. The sugar is on the table,
> and added by the customer, not the server.
That used to be the case in many places here too, but these day, because
> On 06/05/21 02:44, charles wrote:
>> In article <iffrlk...@mid.individual.net>, Ken Blake
>> <k...@invalidemail.com> wrote:
>
>>> I had no idea what you meant by "standard units." There are no
>>> "standard units" as far as I'm concerned.
>>
>>> I think "two sugars" would be widely understood to mean two cubes
>>> or two teaspoonsful, but I wouldn't understand what "two milk"
>>> meant, and I don't think most other people would either.
>>
>> In a lot of places where one buys coffee over here, milk comes in
>> little plastic containers; 12 millilites each, according to Amazon
>
> Sugar is not an issue in coffee places here. The sugar is on the table,
> and added by the customer, not the server.
of the Pandemic, many places don't put anything on the table except what
you ask for.
> Some Australians will order coffee with "milk on the side". That means a
> little pot of milk, from which the customer can pour exactly what they
> want. That makes sense given the wide range of preferences from "just a
> couple of drops of milk" to "very white".
>
> Of course you don't get those choices in the less classy places that
> serve coffee in disposable cups, but in those places you don't expect
> good coffee anyway.
coffee. It almost everywhere, even the classiest places. It seems that
almost everyone tries to emulate Starbucks, which In my opinion, has the
world's worst coffee.
Speaking of less classy places, in my opinion, McDonalds has better
coffee than most places, even better than most classy places.
--
Ken
Peter T. Daniels
May 6, 2021, 11:52:19 AM5/6/21
to
A Cincy-style chili restaurant opened in Chicago's Loop --
I liked it, but it didn't last very long.
Ken Blake
May 6, 2021, 11:52:46 AM5/6/21
to
On 5/5/2021 9:04 PM, Tony Cooper wrote:
> On Thu, 6 May 2021 12:39:06 +1100, Peter Moylan
> <pe...@pmoylan.org.invalid> wrote:
>
>>On 06/05/21 02:44, charles wrote:
>>> In article <iffrlk...@mid.individual.net>, Ken Blake
>>> <k...@invalidemail.com> wrote:
>>
>>>> I had no idea what you meant by "standard units." There are no
>>>> "standard units" as far as I'm concerned.
>>>
>>>> I think "two sugars" would be widely understood to mean two cubes
>>>> or two teaspoonsful, but I wouldn't understand what "two milk"
>>>> meant, and I don't think most other people would either.
>>>
>>> In a lot of places where one buys coffee over here, milk comes in
>>> little plastic containers; 12 millilites each, according to Amazon
>>
>>Sugar is not an issue in coffee places here. The sugar is on the table,
>>and added by the customer, not the server.
>>
>
> I don't think I've ever been in restaurant of any kind where the cream
> or sugar was added to the coffee by the waitperson who was serving me
> when I was at a table or counter.
Same for me in the USA. But in Naples, Italy, if you order coffee, it
> On Thu, 6 May 2021 12:39:06 +1100, Peter Moylan
> <pe...@pmoylan.org.invalid> wrote:
>
>>On 06/05/21 02:44, charles wrote:
>>> In article <iffrlk...@mid.individual.net>, Ken Blake
>>> <k...@invalidemail.com> wrote:
>>
>>>> I had no idea what you meant by "standard units." There are no
>>>> "standard units" as far as I'm concerned.
>>>
>>>> I think "two sugars" would be widely understood to mean two cubes
>>>> or two teaspoonsful, but I wouldn't understand what "two milk"
>>>> meant, and I don't think most other people would either.
>>>
>>> In a lot of places where one buys coffee over here, milk comes in
>>> little plastic containers; 12 millilites each, according to Amazon
>>
>>Sugar is not an issue in coffee places here. The sugar is on the table,
>>and added by the customer, not the server.
>>
>
> I don't think I've ever been in restaurant of any kind where the cream
> or sugar was added to the coffee by the waitperson who was serving me
> when I was at a table or counter.
almost invariably comes with sugar added unless you specify otherwise.
I don't know about all of Brazil, but the one experience I remember in
Sao Paolo, the coffee I ordered also came with sugar added.
> Even in that Boston restaurant I
> mention where the waitress asked if I wanted "regular", the purpose of
> the question was to determine if she needed to put the sugar jar and
> creamer on the counter near me.
>
> Where cream and sugar are added by the staff is when coffee-to-go is
> ordered. I ask for an empty cup, add the sugar and cream, and then
> hand the cup back to be filled. I want my right "standard units".
>
> "Cream", by the way, is used as a generic term for whatever white
> liquid is available.
> Rarely is it a product of a cow.
it's usually milk, less often half-and-half, rarely cream. It's also
very rarely something other than the product of a cow, except perhaps in
Kosher restaurants.
--
Ken
Ken Blake
May 6, 2021, 11:58:02 AM5/6/21
to
On 5/5/2021 11:49 PM, Athel Cornish-Bowden wrote:
> On 2021-05-06 01:27:01 +0000, Sam Plusnet said:
>
>> On 05-May-21 21:40, Anders D. Nygaard wrote:
>>> Den 05-05-2021 kl. 18:21 skrev Lewis:
>>>> But I don't recall every seeing anyone put milk in coffee voluntarily.
>>>
>>> Then you have not seen my brother. Even when cream is available,
>>> he prefers milk.
>>>
>>
>> I may not be your brother, but I share his tastes in this matter.
>
> So do most people outside North America.
I don't know anything about many places outside North America, but in
> On 2021-05-06 01:27:01 +0000, Sam Plusnet said:
>
>> On 05-May-21 21:40, Anders D. Nygaard wrote:
>>> Den 05-05-2021 kl. 18:21 skrev Lewis:
>>>> But I don't recall every seeing anyone put milk in coffee voluntarily.
>>>
>>> Then you have not seen my brother. Even when cream is available,
>>> he prefers milk.
>>>
>>
>> I may not be your brother, but I share his tastes in this matter.
>
> So do most people outside North America.
Italy, in my experience, only milk, and never cream, has been available.
These day, I almost always drink coffee black (unless I hate it, and
want to dull the taste), but back when I added something, I always
preferred cream to milk.
--
Ken
Ken Blake
May 6, 2021, 12:01:43 PM5/6/21
to
On 5/6/2021 6:39 AM, Lewis wrote:
> What is put in coffee is called "cream" only in relationship to coffee.
> It is called "half-and-half" in the US and it is a mix of half milk and
> half light cream, yielding a 'cream' that is about 8-10% milk fat
> (compared to whole milk which is 3-4% or light cream which is 14-20%).
> We do not confuse "half-and-half" with cream in cooking.
>
> These numbers are guesses, since our labeling laws do not require that
> things like the percentage of milk-fat be listed on the label,
Is that true of the entire USA? I thought it varied by state. If I
> What is put in coffee is called "cream" only in relationship to coffee.
> It is called "half-and-half" in the US and it is a mix of half milk and
> half light cream, yielding a 'cream' that is about 8-10% milk fat
> (compared to whole milk which is 3-4% or light cream which is 14-20%).
> We do not confuse "half-and-half" with cream in cooking.
>
> These numbers are guesses, since our labeling laws do not require that
> things like the percentage of milk-fat be listed on the label,
remember correctly, here in Arizona, I think I've often seen the
percentage on labels.
> unlike
> Canada which had a whole array of coffee cream and cream ranging from 0%
> milk fat right on up to 36% *heavy whipping cream).
Ken
Mack A. Damia
May 6, 2021, 12:03:43 PM5/6/21
to
On Thu, 6 May 2021 08:52:16 -0700 (PDT), "Peter T. Daniels"
Sort of a combination of Bolognese sauce and Pasta e fagioli.
>A Cincy-style chili restaurant opened in Chicago's Loop --
>I liked it, but it didn't last very long.
In St Louis, you can buy tripe sandwiches from sidewalk vendors. The
tripe is breaded and deep-fried. Served with hot sauce.
>A Cincy-style chili restaurant opened in Chicago's Loop --
>I liked it, but it didn't last very long.
tripe is breaded and deep-fried. Served with hot sauce.
Peter T. Daniels
May 6, 2021, 12:26:59 PM5/6/21
to
"Chili Five Ways" is the ultimate. The five ways are
Two-way: spaghetti topped with chili[4] (also called "chili spaghetti")
Three-way: spaghetti, chili, and cheese[4]
Four-way onion: spaghetti, chili, onions, and cheese[4]
Four-way bean: spaghetti, chili, beans, and cheese[4]
Five-way: spaghetti, chili, beans, onions, and cheese[4]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cincinnati_chili#The_%22way%22_system
> >A Cincy-style chili restaurant opened in Chicago's Loop --
> >I liked it, but it didn't last very long.
>
> In St Louis, you can buy tripe sandwiches from sidewalk vendors. The
> tripe is breaded and deep-fried. Served with hot sauce.
Tony Cooper
May 6, 2021, 12:29:15 PM5/6/21
to
On Thu, 6 May 2021 08:52:16 -0700 (PDT), "Peter T. Daniels"
As they do in any Steak 'n Shake anywhere in the country where there's
a Steak 'n Shake. It's on the menu as Chli Mac and Chili 5-Way.
a Steak 'n Shake. It's on the menu as Chli Mac and Chili 5-Way.
>
>A Cincy-style chili restaurant opened in Chicago's Loop --
>I liked it, but it didn't last very long.
>A Cincy-style chili restaurant opened in Chicago's Loop --
>I liked it, but it didn't last very long.
Athel Cornish-Bowden
May 6, 2021, 12:33:36 PM5/6/21
to
On 2021-05-06 16:29:08 +0000, Tony Cooper said:
> On Thu, 6 May 2021 08:52:16 -0700 (PDT), "Peter T. Daniels"
> <gram...@verizon.net> wrote:
>
>>
>> [ … ]
> On Thu, 6 May 2021 08:52:16 -0700 (PDT), "Peter T. Daniels"
> <gram...@verizon.net> wrote:
>
>>
>>
>>
>> In Cincinnati they put spaghetti under chili.
Very difficult, I imagine. Why don't they put the spaghetti first and
>>
>> In Cincinnati they put spaghetti under chili.
then put the chili over it?
>
> As they do in any Steak 'n Shake anywhere in the country where there's
> a Steak 'n Shake. It's on the menu as Chli Mac and Chili 5-Way.
>>
>> A Cincy-style chili restaurant opened in Chicago's Loop --
>> I liked it, but it didn't last very long.
--
> As they do in any Steak 'n Shake anywhere in the country where there's
> a Steak 'n Shake. It's on the menu as Chli Mac and Chili 5-Way.
>>
>> A Cincy-style chili restaurant opened in Chicago's Loop --
>> I liked it, but it didn't last very long.
--
Peter T. Daniels
May 6, 2021, 12:34:06 PM5/6/21
to
It lowered the tone of the neighborhood considerably. The only chain
restaurant for blocks and blocks around.
Maybe you don't know that Five-Way Chili is a Cincinnati specialty
and anything your chain can do is likely to be no better than what
they do with any other mass-produced item -- and their prices are
absurd.
Quinn C
May 6, 2021, 12:49:23 PM5/6/21
to
* Jerry Friedman:
> On Wednesday, May 5, 2021 at 8:48:00 PM UTC-6, Peter Moylan wrote:
>> Since cream is just what is taken from the top of the milk, its
>> definition varies between countries. The cream that I've seen in US
I heard someone say they occasionally "drink a cup of cream". I was
grossed out until I understood that they almost certainly meant a
product with around 10% fat. I hadn't gotten used to that being called
"cream" yet. I still wouldn't drink it, but it's not as outlandish.
In Germany, it used to be common to add evaporated milk to coffee.
Typically 7.5% fat, later 4% became popular, too. That's the thing you'd
get in portion cups at coffee places, but also often in pitchers. Not
sure if that's still the standard.
--
Trans people are scapegoated for the impossibilities of this two-box
system, but the system harms all of us. Most people have felt ashamed
of the ways we don't conform to whatever narrow idea of man or woman
has been prescribed onto our bodies -- H.P.Keenan in Slate
> On Wednesday, May 5, 2021 at 8:48:00 PM UTC-6, Peter Moylan wrote:
>> On 06/05/21 07:40, Anders D. Nygaard wrote:
>>> Den 05-05-2021 kl. 18:21 skrev Lewis:
>>
>>>> But I don't recall every seeing anyone put milk in coffee
>>>> voluntarily.
>>>
>>> Then you have not seen my brother. Even when cream is available, he
>>> prefers milk.
>
>>> Den 05-05-2021 kl. 18:21 skrev Lewis:
>>
>>>> But I don't recall every seeing anyone put milk in coffee
>>>> voluntarily.
>>>
>>> Then you have not seen my brother. Even when cream is available, he
>>> prefers milk.
>
>> Cream in coffee makes the coffee taste disgusting. But that's when it's
>> the stuff that I call cream. Nobody in this country puts cream in coffee.
It's a nice addition when it's whipped. But not for an everyday drink.
>> the stuff that I call cream. Nobody in this country puts cream in coffee.
>> Since cream is just what is taken from the top of the milk, its
>> restaurants is not a lot different from what I call milk.
>
>
> Your cream is probably something like our whipping cream or
> heavy cream, which is around 35% butterfat. Our coffee cream
> has about half that butterfat content, as Lewis implied.
Probably even less, as discussed.
> heavy cream, which is around 35% butterfat. Our coffee cream
> has about half that butterfat content, as Lewis implied.
I heard someone say they occasionally "drink a cup of cream". I was
grossed out until I understood that they almost certainly meant a
product with around 10% fat. I hadn't gotten used to that being called
"cream" yet. I still wouldn't drink it, but it's not as outlandish.
In Germany, it used to be common to add evaporated milk to coffee.
Typically 7.5% fat, later 4% became popular, too. That's the thing you'd
get in portion cups at coffee places, but also often in pitchers. Not
sure if that's still the standard.
--
Trans people are scapegoated for the impossibilities of this two-box
system, but the system harms all of us. Most people have felt ashamed
of the ways we don't conform to whatever narrow idea of man or woman
has been prescribed onto our bodies -- H.P.Keenan in Slate
Mack A. Damia
May 6, 2021, 12:50:30 PM5/6/21
to
On Thu, 6 May 2021 09:26:55 -0700 (PDT), "Peter T. Daniels"
Chili has beef and beans. Bolognese sauce has beef, and Pasta e
fagioli has spaghetti and beans. Cheese in there somewhere.
"TA-DA"
fagioli has spaghetti and beans. Cheese in there somewhere.
"TA-DA"
Tony Cooper
May 6, 2021, 1:49:23 PM5/6/21
to
On Thu, 6 May 2021 09:34:03 -0700 (PDT), "Peter T. Daniels"
Cincinnati chili parlors. Five-way is one of the choices, but it's
hardly exclusive to Cincy chili parlors.
I grew up going with my father taking me to Blacker's Chili Parlor in
Indianapolis where they advertised 100 variations. Cincy wasn't home
to the Chili Parlor business until the 1920s. Blacker's first opened
sometime around 1910. By 1925 there were five Blacker's locations in
Indianapolis, but the one remaining Blacker's was on Ohio Street when
I was growing up.
Dory Blacker retired in 1965 and closed the last Blacker's.
Blacker's canned their products and sold it in grocery stores, but my
father would never buy their canned product. If we had chili at home,
my mother made it with the chili with beans over spaghetti or elbow
macaroni, shredded cheddar cheese and added to the top so it would
melt into the chili, and chopped onion. My wife uses my mother's
recipe to this day.
Skyline Chili, in St Petersburg FL, was the place to for chili down
here. The founder originally opened a Skyline chili parlor in
Cincinnati, but then opened and managed a Skyline in St Pete. Their
website says they are currently in Clearwater, though.
Skyline became a franchise operation and had one in the Chicago area.
Some suburb, but I forget which. I went there once, but the chili was
nothing special. I think there was also a Gold Star Chili parlor in
the Chicago area at one time but I never got around to going there.
Gold Star is based in Cincinnati is also a franchise operation.
Franchise outlets never do it as well as the original. Uno's Pizza is
prime example of that.
PS: Chili 5-way is $4.99 at Steak 'n Shake here. That's "absurd"?
<gram...@verizon.net> wrote:
>On Thursday, May 6, 2021 at 12:29:15 PM UTC-4, Tony Cooper wrote:
>> On Thu, 6 May 2021 08:52:16 -0700 (PDT), "Peter T. Daniels"
>> <gram...@verizon.net> wrote:
>
>> >In Cincinnati they put spaghetti under chili.
>>
>> As they do in any Steak 'n Shake anywhere in the country where there's
>> a Steak 'n Shake. It's on the menu as Chli Mac and Chili 5-Way.
>
>One of those opened across Broadway from Columbia University.
>
>It lowered the tone of the neighborhood considerably. The only chain
>restaurant for blocks and blocks around.
>
>Maybe you don't know that Five-Way Chili is a Cincinnati specialty
>and anything your chain can do is likely to be no better than what
>they do with any other mass-produced item -- and their prices are
>absurd.
>
Oh, please. I've been to Cincinnati many times and to several
>On Thursday, May 6, 2021 at 12:29:15 PM UTC-4, Tony Cooper wrote:
>> On Thu, 6 May 2021 08:52:16 -0700 (PDT), "Peter T. Daniels"
>> <gram...@verizon.net> wrote:
>
>> >In Cincinnati they put spaghetti under chili.
>>
>> As they do in any Steak 'n Shake anywhere in the country where there's
>> a Steak 'n Shake. It's on the menu as Chli Mac and Chili 5-Way.
>
>One of those opened across Broadway from Columbia University.
>
>It lowered the tone of the neighborhood considerably. The only chain
>restaurant for blocks and blocks around.
>
>Maybe you don't know that Five-Way Chili is a Cincinnati specialty
>and anything your chain can do is likely to be no better than what
>they do with any other mass-produced item -- and their prices are
>absurd.
>
Cincinnati chili parlors. Five-way is one of the choices, but it's
hardly exclusive to Cincy chili parlors.
I grew up going with my father taking me to Blacker's Chili Parlor in
Indianapolis where they advertised 100 variations. Cincy wasn't home
to the Chili Parlor business until the 1920s. Blacker's first opened
sometime around 1910. By 1925 there were five Blacker's locations in
Indianapolis, but the one remaining Blacker's was on Ohio Street when
I was growing up.
Dory Blacker retired in 1965 and closed the last Blacker's.
Blacker's canned their products and sold it in grocery stores, but my
father would never buy their canned product. If we had chili at home,
my mother made it with the chili with beans over spaghetti or elbow
macaroni, shredded cheddar cheese and added to the top so it would
melt into the chili, and chopped onion. My wife uses my mother's
recipe to this day.
Skyline Chili, in St Petersburg FL, was the place to for chili down
here. The founder originally opened a Skyline chili parlor in
Cincinnati, but then opened and managed a Skyline in St Pete. Their
website says they are currently in Clearwater, though.
Skyline became a franchise operation and had one in the Chicago area.
Some suburb, but I forget which. I went there once, but the chili was
nothing special. I think there was also a Gold Star Chili parlor in
the Chicago area at one time but I never got around to going there.
Gold Star is based in Cincinnati is also a franchise operation.
Franchise outlets never do it as well as the original. Uno's Pizza is
prime example of that.
PS: Chili 5-way is $4.99 at Steak 'n Shake here. That's "absurd"?
Mack A. Damia
May 6, 2021, 1:51:56 PM5/6/21
to
>would be understood to be the latter everywhere I've been. If you wanted
>hot fat spooned over them to cook the yolks lightly, that's kind of
>regional, and you might not be able to get it everywhere. The term I
>know for that is "basted".
>
>We've discussed "bacon" repeatedly. If you wanted the stuff that's less
>than half fat, I can imagine two terms: "Canadian bacon" and "back bacon",
>hot fat spooned over them to cook the yolks lightly, that's kind of
>regional, and you might not be able to get it everywhere. The term I
>know for that is "basted".
>
>We've discussed "bacon" repeatedly. If you wanted the stuff that's less
>than half fat, I can imagine two terms: "Canadian bacon" and "back bacon",
>and I can imagine there are others.
>
>If you didn't get what you wanted, I wonder whether it was sometimes
>
>due to some cause other than them misunderstanding you.
Hungry?
https://ibb.co/8BFjXT7
Peter T. Daniels
May 6, 2021, 2:25:23 PM5/6/21
to
On Thursday, May 6, 2021 at 12:33:36 PM UTC-4, Athel Cornish-Bowden wrote:
> On 2021-05-06 16:29:08 +0000, Tony Cooper said:
> > On Thu, 6 May 2021 08:52:16 -0700 (PDT), "Peter T. Daniels"
> > <gram...@verizon.net> wrote:
> >
> >>
> >> [ … ]
> >>
> >>
> >> In Cincinnati they put spaghetti under chili.
>
> Very difficult, I imagine. Why don't they put the spaghetti first and
> then put the chili over it?
Why don't you look at the context?
> On 2021-05-06 16:29:08 +0000, Tony Cooper said:
> > On Thu, 6 May 2021 08:52:16 -0700 (PDT), "Peter T. Daniels"
> > <gram...@verizon.net> wrote:
> >
> >>
> >> [ … ]
> >>
> >>
> >> In Cincinnati they put spaghetti under chili.
>
> Very difficult, I imagine. Why don't they put the spaghetti first and
> then put the chili over it?
Instead, you chose to zero it out.
Once again you prefer to "rely" on your stoogemaster to tell you,
or distort, what I actually wrote.
Peter T. Daniels
May 6, 2021, 2:29:50 PM5/6/21
to
The student cookbook I used a lot in 1969-71 (when I had an
apartment in Ithaca) began its discussion of chili with
THERE ARE NO BEANS IN CHILI.
As you see from the list below, beans is the last item they toss in.
Pierre Jelenc
May 6, 2021, 2:35:10 PM5/6/21
to
In article <6da2d09d-109c-44ec...@googlegroups.com>,
less-than-classy outlets!
Pierre
--
Pierre Jelenc
The Gigometer www.gigometer.com
The NYC Beer Guide www.nycbeer.org
Peter T. Daniels <gram...@verizon.net> wrote:
>On Thursday, May 6, 2021 at 12:29:15 PM UTC-4, Tony Cooper wrote:
>> On Thu, 6 May 2021 08:52:16 -0700 (PDT), "Peter T. Daniels"
>> <gram...@verizon.net> wrote:
>
>> >In Cincinnati they put spaghetti under chili.
>>
>> As they do in any Steak 'n Shake anywhere in the country where there's
>> a Steak 'n Shake. It's on the menu as Chli Mac and Chili 5-Way.
>
>One of those opened across Broadway from Columbia University.
>
>It lowered the tone of the neighborhood considerably. The only chain
>restaurant for blocks and blocks around.
Hmm. It's right where Chock full o'Nuts used to be, among other
>On Thursday, May 6, 2021 at 12:29:15 PM UTC-4, Tony Cooper wrote:
>> On Thu, 6 May 2021 08:52:16 -0700 (PDT), "Peter T. Daniels"
>> <gram...@verizon.net> wrote:
>
>> >In Cincinnati they put spaghetti under chili.
>>
>> As they do in any Steak 'n Shake anywhere in the country where there's
>> a Steak 'n Shake. It's on the menu as Chli Mac and Chili 5-Way.
>
>One of those opened across Broadway from Columbia University.
>
>It lowered the tone of the neighborhood considerably. The only chain
>restaurant for blocks and blocks around.
less-than-classy outlets!
Pierre
--
Pierre Jelenc
The Gigometer www.gigometer.com
The NYC Beer Guide www.nycbeer.org
Mack A. Damia
May 6, 2021, 2:41:14 PM5/6/21
to
On Thu, 6 May 2021 11:29:47 -0700 (PDT), "Peter T. Daniels"
<*BZZZZZ*> Wrong again.
Classic recipe for Chili:
Ingredients
1 tablespoon olive oil
1 medium yellow onion -diced
1 pound 90% lean ground beef
2 1/2 tablespoons chili powder
2 tablespoons ground cumin
2 tablespoons granulated sugar
2 tablespoons tomato paste
1 tablespoon garlic powder
1 1/2 teaspoons salt
1/2 teaspoon ground black pepper
1/4 teaspoon ground cayenne pepper* -optional
1 1/2 cups beef broth
1 (15 oz.) can petite diced tomatoes
1 (16 oz.) can red kidney beans, drained and rinsed
1 (8 oz.) can tomato sauce
BEANS
There are those who consider beans in chili to be an apostasy. But
beans in chili can be delicious and, indeed, are an easy way to
“stretch” a chili from a dish that serves 6 to a dish that serves 10
or even 12. (Figure something in the neighborhood of a cup of cooked
beans per person.) Pinto beans make a wonderful addition to a beef
chili, and white ones are beautiful with poultry and lamb.
Doesn't matter, Daniels. I was referring to chili with beans in my
original post - and I said "sort of like...."
Classic recipe for Chili:
Ingredients
1 tablespoon olive oil
1 medium yellow onion -diced
1 pound 90% lean ground beef
2 1/2 tablespoons chili powder
2 tablespoons ground cumin
2 tablespoons granulated sugar
2 tablespoons tomato paste
1 tablespoon garlic powder
1 1/2 teaspoons salt
1/2 teaspoon ground black pepper
1/4 teaspoon ground cayenne pepper* -optional
1 1/2 cups beef broth
1 (15 oz.) can petite diced tomatoes
1 (16 oz.) can red kidney beans, drained and rinsed
1 (8 oz.) can tomato sauce
BEANS
There are those who consider beans in chili to be an apostasy. But
beans in chili can be delicious and, indeed, are an easy way to
“stretch” a chili from a dish that serves 6 to a dish that serves 10
or even 12. (Figure something in the neighborhood of a cup of cooked
beans per person.) Pinto beans make a wonderful addition to a beef
chili, and white ones are beautiful with poultry and lamb.
Doesn't matter, Daniels. I was referring to chili with beans in my
original post - and I said "sort of like...."
Ken Blake
May 6, 2021, 3:19:09 PM5/6/21
to
On 5/6/2021 12:12 PM, Stefan Ram wrote:
> r...@zedat.fu-berlin.de (Stefan Ram) writes:
>>Are there any other shorter expressions for "coffee with
>>milk and sugar"?
>
> I think I will use "sugared milk coffee", although
> "sweetened milk coffee" also is possible (but a bit
> less specific).
"Sugared" or "sweetened" might be OK, but "milk coffee" sounds weird to
me. On the other hand, "coffee with milk" would be OK.
--
Ken
> r...@zedat.fu-berlin.de (Stefan Ram) writes:
>>Are there any other shorter expressions for "coffee with
>>milk and sugar"?
>
> I think I will use "sugared milk coffee", although
> "sweetened milk coffee" also is possible (but a bit
> less specific).
"Sugared" or "sweetened" might be OK, but "milk coffee" sounds weird to
me. On the other hand, "coffee with milk" would be OK.
--
Ken
bil...@shaw.ca
May 6, 2021, 3:37:52 PM5/6/21
to
making the coffee taste less strong and bitter.
bill
bil...@shaw.ca
May 6, 2021, 3:52:26 PM5/6/21
to
On Thursday, May 6, 2021 at 11:41:14 AM UTC-7, Mack A. Damia wrote:
> On Thu, 6 May 2021 11:29:47 -0700 (PDT), "Peter T. Daniels"
> On Thu, 6 May 2021 11:29:47 -0700 (PDT), "Peter T. Daniels"
where they like it hot, said chili where he grew up used only hot peppers where
others use beans. But you had to be prepared for a little bum-burn in the morning.
bill
Chrysi Cat
May 6, 2021, 4:05:37 PM5/6/21
to
On 5/4/2021 2:05 PM, Stefan Ram wrote:
> In New York jargon, coffee with milk and sugar is called
> "regular coffee", but everywhere else a regular coffee
> is a coffee that is not decaffeinated.
>
> In New York jargon, coffee with milk and sugar is called
> "regular coffee", but everywhere else a regular coffee
> is a coffee that is not decaffeinated.
>
> Are there any other shorter expressions for "coffee with
> milk and sugar"? I read "American-style Coffee" for it.
> Maybe I can shorten this to just "American Coffee"?
> (Not to be confused with "Caffè Americano", though.)
>
> I suppose one cannot use "Latte" or "Cafe au Lait" as
> this would already include specific preparation methods.
>
> (To be specific, if this should matter: I refer to sugar and
> whole diary milk added to drip or instant coffee, so that
> the drink then consists of about 20 percent of whole diary
> milk - drunk hot or cold.)
>
>
"White and sweet"?
And I know, I just used the exact structure of response that Pamela did
to irk me badly enough that my responses irked HER badly enough to plonk me.
--
Chrysi Cat
1/2 anthrocat, nearly 1/2 anthrofox, all magical
Transgoddess, quick to anger. [she/her. Misgender and die].
Call me Chrysi or call me Kat, I'll respond to either!
Chrysi Cat
May 6, 2021, 4:22:21 PM5/6/21
to
On 5/5/2021 7:32 PM, Peter Moylan wrote:
> On 06/05/21 00:54, Quinn C wrote:
>> * Sam Plusnet:
>>
>>> On 04-May-21 23:01, Quinn C wrote:
>>>
>>>> In Canada, a "double double" is a coffee with two standard units
>>>> each of milk and sugar.
>>>>
>>>
>>> <snip the rest>
>>>
>>> "standard units"?
>>
>> Well, yeah. You can say "... with two milk and two sugar", so some
>> kind of standard unit is implied, and it's not the same unit for both
>> milk and sugar.
>>
>> I never quite understood what it is. In gastronomical settings, it'd
>> often be one sachet of sugar (when I was a child: one cube of sugar)
>> and one little cup of milk (not around yet when I was a child), but
>> how that translates to anything I'd use at home, like spoons, I don't
>> know.
>
> When I first visited the USA, one of my biggest language problems was
> how to order a meal in a breakfast place. All I wanted was fried eggs
> with the white solid and the yolk liquid, plus some bacon, but the way
> to say that seemed to vary all over the place.
>
That's either "over easy" or "sunny side up".
> On 06/05/21 00:54, Quinn C wrote:
>> * Sam Plusnet:
>>
>>> On 04-May-21 23:01, Quinn C wrote:
>>>
>>>> In Canada, a "double double" is a coffee with two standard units
>>>> each of milk and sugar.
>>>>
>>>
>>> <snip the rest>
>>>
>>> "standard units"?
>>
>> Well, yeah. You can say "... with two milk and two sugar", so some
>> kind of standard unit is implied, and it's not the same unit for both
>> milk and sugar.
>>
>> I never quite understood what it is. In gastronomical settings, it'd
>> often be one sachet of sugar (when I was a child: one cube of sugar)
>> and one little cup of milk (not around yet when I was a child), but
>> how that translates to anything I'd use at home, like spoons, I don't
>> know.
>
> When I first visited the USA, one of my biggest language problems was
> how to order a meal in a breakfast place. All I wanted was fried eggs
> with the white solid and the yolk liquid, plus some bacon, but the way
> to say that seemed to vary all over the place.
>
SSU doesn't get flipped; "over" anything does, and "easy" denotes a
liquid and often barely-warm (at home) yolk.
"Over medium" is semi-solid yolk; "Over well" is stupid but possible.
As for getting what NON-USians call bacon?
I'm not sure that's _possible_ in most restaurants; rather, they only
order in the slabs from which rectangular strips are carved.
And any more, in a restaurant, both parts come overcooked unless you
basically sign a liability waiver saying you won't sue.
The trichina worm is rare in pork produced for the US, but salmonella
runs RAMPANT amongst our hens, and thus an egg is assumed to be
contaminated.
And the CDC points out that there is no possibility of killing any
salmonella inside a liquid yolk.
Brianna Oxendine
May 6, 2021, 4:25:33 PM5/6/21
to
Chrysi Cat
May 6, 2021, 4:44:05 PM5/6/21
to
Care to tell me what response to it got eaten?
Sam Plusnet
May 6, 2021, 4:49:30 PM5/6/21
to
On 06-May-21 11:42, musika wrote:
> On 06/05/2021 04:16, Jerry Friedman wrote:
>
>> Is there a name for the 18-20% stuff in your country?
>>
> Here the main designations are
> Single cream - c. 18%
> Whipping cream - c. 36%
> Double cream - c. 48%
>
Clotted cream - 55%
--
Sam Plusnet
Wales, UK
> On 06/05/2021 04:16, Jerry Friedman wrote:
>
>> Is there a name for the 18-20% stuff in your country?
>>
> Here the main designations are
> Single cream - c. 18%
> Whipping cream - c. 36%
> Double cream - c. 48%
>
Clotted cream - 55%
--
Sam Plusnet
Wales, UK
Jerry Friedman
May 6, 2021, 4:55:07 PM5/6/21
to
On Thursday, May 6, 2021 at 2:22:21 PM UTC-6, Chrysi Cat wrote:
[bacon and eggs]
> And any more, in a restaurant, both parts come overcooked unless you
> basically sign a liability waiver saying you won't sue.
>
> The trichina worm is rare in pork
Not to be confused with "The trichina worm is in rare pork."
> produced for the US, but salmonella
> runs RAMPANT amongst our hens, and thus an egg is assumed to be
> contaminated.
...
It's estimated that 1-2 eggs out of 20,000 here have salmonella.
https://www.livescience.com/62318-how-salmonella-gets-in-eggs.html
--
Jerry Friedman
[bacon and eggs]
> And any more, in a restaurant, both parts come overcooked unless you
> basically sign a liability waiver saying you won't sue.
>
> The trichina worm is rare in pork
> produced for the US, but salmonella
> runs RAMPANT amongst our hens, and thus an egg is assumed to be
> contaminated.
It's estimated that 1-2 eggs out of 20,000 here have salmonella.
https://www.livescience.com/62318-how-salmonella-gets-in-eggs.html
--
Jerry Friedman
Jerry Friedman
May 6, 2021, 4:56:16 PM5/6/21
to
On Thursday, May 6, 2021 at 4:42:22 AM UTC-6, musika wrote:
> On 06/05/2021 04:16, Jerry Friedman wrote:
>
> > Is there a name for the 18-20% stuff in your country?
> >
> Here the main designations are
> Single cream - c. 18%
> Whipping cream - c. 36%
> Double cream - c. 48%
Thanks. I suppose our coffee cream is two-thirds cream.
> On 06/05/2021 04:16, Jerry Friedman wrote:
>
> > Is there a name for the 18-20% stuff in your country?
> >
> Here the main designations are
> Single cream - c. 18%
> Whipping cream - c. 36%
> Double cream - c. 48%
--
Jerry Friedman
bruce bowser
May 6, 2021, 5:07:37 PM5/6/21
to
Lewis
May 6, 2021, 5:27:39 PM5/6/21
to
In message <4qr79gl768as9h298...@4ax.com> Tony Cooper <tonyco...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Thu, 6 May 2021 13:26:34 -0000 (UTC), Lewis
> <g.k...@kreme.dont-email.me> wrote:
>>In message <r7q69g97ett22toag...@4ax.com> Tony Cooper <tonyco...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> On Thu, 6 May 2021 12:39:06 +1100, Peter Moylan
>>> <pe...@pmoylan.org.invalid> wrote:
>>
>>>>On 06/05/21 02:44, charles wrote:
>>>>> In article <iffrlk...@mid.individual.net>, Ken Blake
>>>>> <k...@invalidemail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>> I had no idea what you meant by "standard units." There are no
>>>>>> "standard units" as far as I'm concerned.
>>>>>
>>>>>> I think "two sugars" would be widely understood to mean two cubes
>>>>>> or two teaspoonsful, but I wouldn't understand what "two milk"
>>>>>> meant, and I don't think most other people would either.
>>>>>
>>>>> In a lot of places where one buys coffee over here, milk comes in
>>>>> little plastic containers; 12 millilites each, according to Amazon
>>>>
>>>>Sugar is not an issue in coffee places here. The sugar is on the table,
>>>>and added by the customer, not the server.
>>>>
>>
>>> I don't think I've ever been in restaurant of any kind where the cream
>>> or sugar was added to the coffee by the waitperson who was serving me
>>> when I was at a table or counter. Even in that Boston restaurant I
>>> mention where the waitress asked if I wanted "regular", the purpose of
>>> the question was to determine if she needed to put the sugar jar and
>>> creamer on the counter near me.
>>
>>Except for Dunkin Donuts and Tim Horton;s, which add the cream and
>>sugar/sweetner for you.
>>
> I don't know what the Dunkin Donuts are like in your area, but here
> they have both counter seating and counter service for to-go orders.
> If you sit at the counter, the sugar/cream containers are on the
> counter and you add your own. If you get coffee to-go, they will
> either add those for you, or you can add them yourself using the
> sugar/cream at a little station across from the counter.
Dunkin is pretty new here, but when we went getting out own cream and
sugar was not an option. That was before the pandemic.
> We don't have Tim Horton's down here.
I think they are only in Canada, though someone claimed there were a few
somewhere in the Midwest? Not sure if that was before Burger King bought
them to evade US taxes or not.
--
"Are you pondering what I'm pondering?"
"I think so, Brain! But what's the use of having a heart-shaped
tattoo if it's going to be covered by hair?"
> On Thu, 6 May 2021 13:26:34 -0000 (UTC), Lewis
> <g.k...@kreme.dont-email.me> wrote:
>>In message <r7q69g97ett22toag...@4ax.com> Tony Cooper <tonyco...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> On Thu, 6 May 2021 12:39:06 +1100, Peter Moylan
>>> <pe...@pmoylan.org.invalid> wrote:
>>
>>>>On 06/05/21 02:44, charles wrote:
>>>>> In article <iffrlk...@mid.individual.net>, Ken Blake
>>>>> <k...@invalidemail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>> I had no idea what you meant by "standard units." There are no
>>>>>> "standard units" as far as I'm concerned.
>>>>>
>>>>>> I think "two sugars" would be widely understood to mean two cubes
>>>>>> or two teaspoonsful, but I wouldn't understand what "two milk"
>>>>>> meant, and I don't think most other people would either.
>>>>>
>>>>> In a lot of places where one buys coffee over here, milk comes in
>>>>> little plastic containers; 12 millilites each, according to Amazon
>>>>
>>>>Sugar is not an issue in coffee places here. The sugar is on the table,
>>>>and added by the customer, not the server.
>>>>
>>
>>> I don't think I've ever been in restaurant of any kind where the cream
>>> or sugar was added to the coffee by the waitperson who was serving me
>>> when I was at a table or counter. Even in that Boston restaurant I
>>> mention where the waitress asked if I wanted "regular", the purpose of
>>> the question was to determine if she needed to put the sugar jar and
>>> creamer on the counter near me.
>>
>>Except for Dunkin Donuts and Tim Horton;s, which add the cream and
>>sugar/sweetner for you.
>>
> I don't know what the Dunkin Donuts are like in your area, but here
> they have both counter seating and counter service for to-go orders.
> If you sit at the counter, the sugar/cream containers are on the
> counter and you add your own. If you get coffee to-go, they will
> either add those for you, or you can add them yourself using the
> sugar/cream at a little station across from the counter.
Dunkin is pretty new here, but when we went getting out own cream and
sugar was not an option. That was before the pandemic.
> We don't have Tim Horton's down here.
I think they are only in Canada, though someone claimed there were a few
somewhere in the Midwest? Not sure if that was before Burger King bought
them to evade US taxes or not.
--
"Are you pondering what I'm pondering?"
"I think so, Brain! But what's the use of having a heart-shaped
tattoo if it's going to be covered by hair?"
Lewis
May 6, 2021, 5:35:01 PM5/6/21
to
In message <a83fd172-99c8-4d39...@googlegroups.com> Jerry Friedman <jerry_f...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> But they do have to be labeled with grams of fat per serving. Borden's
> half and half has 3.5 g of fat per 30 mL serving, which should be just
> about 12% by weight.
We have a wonderful system where serving sizes are given in imperial
measures and contents are in metric, making the numbers at best
difficult. I also think that there is some variation between brands, but
I am not sure of that.
--
'Where do shadows come from? That's where the wind is blowing!'
--Colour of Magic
> But they do have to be labeled with grams of fat per serving. Borden's
> half and half has 3.5 g of fat per 30 mL serving, which should be just
> about 12% by weight.
We have a wonderful system where serving sizes are given in imperial
measures and contents are in metric, making the numbers at best
difficult. I also think that there is some variation between brands, but
I am not sure of that.
--
'Where do shadows come from? That's where the wind is blowing!'
--Colour of Magic
Lewis
May 6, 2021, 5:37:54 PM5/6/21
to
In message <ifii73...@mid.individual.net> Ken Blake <k...@invalidemail.com> wrote:
> On 5/6/2021 6:39 AM, Lewis wrote:
>> What is put in coffee is called "cream" only in relationship to coffee.
>> It is called "half-and-half" in the US and it is a mix of half milk and
>> half light cream, yielding a 'cream' that is about 8-10% milk fat
>> (compared to whole milk which is 3-4% or light cream which is 14-20%).
>> We do not confuse "half-and-half" with cream in cooking.
>>
>> These numbers are guesses, since our labeling laws do not require that
>> things like the percentage of milk-fat be listed on the label,
> Is that true of the entire USA? I thought it varied by state. If I
> remember correctly, here in Arizona, I think I've often seen the
> percentage on labels.
My impression is that labeling for food is set by the Fed, but companies
can list more information if they want. However, I know California has
done some things that strike me as being in clear violation of numerous
federal laws and they get away with it, maybe Arizona has adopted some
of them.
--
"Are you pondering what I'm pondering?"
The Series Finale: (They're Brain-2-Me-2 and 3-Pinky-0 in a Star
Wars Parody)
> On 5/6/2021 6:39 AM, Lewis wrote:
>> What is put in coffee is called "cream" only in relationship to coffee.
>> It is called "half-and-half" in the US and it is a mix of half milk and
>> half light cream, yielding a 'cream' that is about 8-10% milk fat
>> (compared to whole milk which is 3-4% or light cream which is 14-20%).
>> We do not confuse "half-and-half" with cream in cooking.
>>
>> These numbers are guesses, since our labeling laws do not require that
>> things like the percentage of milk-fat be listed on the label,
> Is that true of the entire USA? I thought it varied by state. If I
> remember correctly, here in Arizona, I think I've often seen the
> percentage on labels.
My impression is that labeling for food is set by the Fed, but companies
can list more information if they want. However, I know California has
done some things that strike me as being in clear violation of numerous
federal laws and they get away with it, maybe Arizona has adopted some
of them.
--
"Are you pondering what I'm pondering?"
Wars Parody)
Lewis
May 6, 2021, 5:39:55 PM5/6/21
to
In message <ifii06...@mid.individual.net> Ken Blake <k...@invalidemail.com> wrote:
> On 5/5/2021 11:49 PM, Athel Cornish-Bowden wrote:
>> On 2021-05-06 01:27:01 +0000, Sam Plusnet said:
>>
>> So do most people outside North America.
> I don't know anything about many places outside North America, but in
> Italy, in my experience, only milk, and never cream, has been available.
But in Italy America drip coffee is unknown. And might be illegal.
--
However, you do need rules. Driving on the left (or the right or, in parts of
Europe, on the left and the right as the mood takes you) is a rule which works,
since following it means you're more likely to reach your intended rather than
your final destination. -- (Terry Pratchett,
> On 5/5/2021 11:49 PM, Athel Cornish-Bowden wrote:
>> On 2021-05-06 01:27:01 +0000, Sam Plusnet said:
>>
>>> On 05-May-21 21:40, Anders D. Nygaard wrote:
>>>> Den 05-05-2021 kl. 18:21 skrev Lewis:
>>>>> But I don't recall every seeing anyone put milk in coffee voluntarily.
>>>>
>>>> Then you have not seen my brother. Even when cream is available,
>>>> he prefers milk.
>>>>
>>>
>>> I may not be your brother, but I share his tastes in this matter.
>>> On 05-May-21 21:40, Anders D. Nygaard wrote:
>>>> Den 05-05-2021 kl. 18:21 skrev Lewis:
>>>>> But I don't recall every seeing anyone put milk in coffee voluntarily.
>>>>
>>>> Then you have not seen my brother. Even when cream is available,
>>>> he prefers milk.
>>>>
>>>
>>
>> So do most people outside North America.
> I don't know anything about many places outside North America, but in
> Italy, in my experience, only milk, and never cream, has been available.
But in Italy America drip coffee is unknown. And might be illegal.
--
However, you do need rules. Driving on the left (or the right or, in parts of
Europe, on the left and the right as the mood takes you) is a rule which works,
since following it means you're more likely to reach your intended rather than
your final destination. -- (Terry Pratchett,
Peter T. Daniels
May 6, 2021, 5:50:35 PM5/6/21
to
On Thursday, May 6, 2021 at 2:35:10 PM UTC-4, Pierre Jelenc wrote:
> In article <6da2d09d-109c-44ec...@googlegroups.com>,
> Peter T. Daniels <gram...@verizon.net> wrote:
> >On Thursday, May 6, 2021 at 12:29:15 PM UTC-4, Tony Cooper wrote:
> >> On Thu, 6 May 2021 08:52:16 -0700 (PDT), "Peter T. Daniels"
> >> <gram...@verizon.net> wrote:
> >> >In Cincinnati they put spaghetti under chili.
> >> As they do in any Steak 'n Shake anywhere in the country where there's
> >> a Steak 'n Shake. It's on the menu as Chli Mac and Chili 5-Way.
> >One of those opened across Broadway from Columbia University.
> >
> >It lowered the tone of the neighborhood considerably. The only chain
> >restaurant for blocks and blocks around.
>
> Hmm. It's right where Chock full o'Nuts used to be, among other
> less-than-classy outlets!
It (eventually) replaced Ollie's, a superb Chinese restaurant. The CFoN
> In article <6da2d09d-109c-44ec...@googlegroups.com>,
> Peter T. Daniels <gram...@verizon.net> wrote:
> >On Thursday, May 6, 2021 at 12:29:15 PM UTC-4, Tony Cooper wrote:
> >> On Thu, 6 May 2021 08:52:16 -0700 (PDT), "Peter T. Daniels"
> >> <gram...@verizon.net> wrote:
> >> >In Cincinnati they put spaghetti under chili.
> >> As they do in any Steak 'n Shake anywhere in the country where there's
> >> a Steak 'n Shake. It's on the menu as Chli Mac and Chili 5-Way.
> >One of those opened across Broadway from Columbia University.
> >
> >It lowered the tone of the neighborhood considerably. The only chain
> >restaurant for blocks and blocks around.
>
> Hmm. It's right where Chock full o'Nuts used to be, among other
> less-than-classy outlets!
dates back to my elementary school days in the 1950s. (My high school
classmates were discussing this just last week.) And that seems to have
been a local, not a national, chain. There is an Ollie's location by the 103rd
St. subway station. They may have expanded, or they may have merely
changed location when they had to leave the old one.
I mentioned missing the chain here a few years ago, and the Sage of
Orlando, as usual trying to show me up, provided several links to
Chock Full o' Nutses, including one in Hoboken that I was foolish
enough to walk several blocks out of my way to look for -- every one
of which had been closed for years.
Peter T. Daniels
May 6, 2021, 5:54:38 PM5/6/21
to
On Thursday, May 6, 2021 at 3:52:26 PM UTC-4, bil...@shaw.ca wrote:
> There are of course different recipes for chili. My late friend from Albuquerque,
> where they like it hot, said chili where he grew up used only hot peppers where
> others use beans. But you had to be prepared for a little bum-burn in the morning.
During my almost-week in Albuquerque, I tried the red chili and the green chili
> There are of course different recipes for chili. My late friend from Albuquerque,
> where they like it hot, said chili where he grew up used only hot peppers where
> others use beans. But you had to be prepared for a little bum-burn in the morning.
and settled on the Christmas chili (which is both). The hotel was adjacent to
Old Town with its wonderful restaurants, and also to the history-and-art museum
(quite nice), but the Space Exploration Museum had moved from next door to
that to all the way across town. But a couple of the big rockets were still
standing outside.
Tony Cooper
May 6, 2021, 6:10:34 PM5/6/21
to
On Thu, 6 May 2021 14:50:33 -0700 (PDT), "Peter T. Daniels"
There's one in Ft Lee, but I don't know if your Senior Bus Pass allows
intercity bus travel.
intercity bus travel.
Chrysi Cat
May 6, 2021, 7:23:42 PM5/6/21
to
That's what it'll do to your coronary arteries in 5 days' time!
S K
May 6, 2021, 7:35:17 PM5/6/21
to
if the world champion idiot had google-searched
https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-1-d&q=chock+full+of+nuts+hoboken
google would've told him "Permanently closed"
>
> Tony Cooper Orlando Florida
Peter Moylan
May 6, 2021, 11:54:04 PM5/6/21
to
On 07/05/21 02:52, Ken Blake wrote:
> it almost invariably comes with sugar added unless you specify
> otherwise.
>
> I don't know about all of Brazil, but the one experience I remember
> in Sao Paolo, the coffee I ordered also came with sugar added.
At Singapore airport, the last time I was there, it comes with sweetened
condensed milk already added. Not recommended.
--
Peter Moylan Newcastle, NSW http://www.pmoylan.org
> On 5/5/2021 9:04 PM, Tony Cooper wrote:
>> I don't think I've ever been in restaurant of any kind where the
>> cream or sugar was added to the coffee by the waitperson who was
>> serving me when I was at a table or counter.
>
> Same for me in the USA. But in Naples, Italy, if you order coffee,
>> I don't think I've ever been in restaurant of any kind where the
>> cream or sugar was added to the coffee by the waitperson who was
>> serving me when I was at a table or counter.
>
> it almost invariably comes with sugar added unless you specify
> otherwise.
>
> I don't know about all of Brazil, but the one experience I remember
> in Sao Paolo, the coffee I ordered also came with sugar added.
At Singapore airport, the last time I was there, it comes with sweetened
condensed milk already added. Not recommended.
--
Peter Moylan Newcastle, NSW http://www.pmoylan.org
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