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How do you pronounce "trait"?
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MC
Jul 7, 2013, 10:53:12 PM7/7/13
to
The usual AmE pronunciation is "trate" but when I was growing up in the
UK I remember some pronounced it "tray" - a nod to yer actual French I
suppose, but the R was not pronounced à la française.
I seem to remember that those who went the "tray" route were adamant
that theirs was the correct pronunciation, while those who went with
"trate" regarded "tray" as affected.
Any thoughts on this? Is "tray" still heard in the UK?
--
"If you can, tell me something happy."
- Marybones
UK I remember some pronounced it "tray" - a nod to yer actual French I
suppose, but the R was not pronounced à la française.
I seem to remember that those who went the "tray" route were adamant
that theirs was the correct pronunciation, while those who went with
"trate" regarded "tray" as affected.
Any thoughts on this? Is "tray" still heard in the UK?
--
"If you can, tell me something happy."
- Marybones
annily
Jul 7, 2013, 11:58:11 PM7/7/13
to
On 08.07.13 12:23, MC wrote:
> The usual AmE pronunciation is "trate" but when I was growing up in the
> UK I remember some pronounced it "tray" - a nod to yer actual French I
> suppose, but the R was not pronounced à la française.
>
How was the pronunciation of the "R" different?
> The usual AmE pronunciation is "trate" but when I was growing up in the
> UK I remember some pronounced it "tray" - a nod to yer actual French I
> suppose, but the R was not pronounced à la française.
>
> I seem to remember that those who went the "tray" route were adamant
> that theirs was the correct pronunciation, while those who went with
> "trate" regarded "tray" as affected.
>
> Any thoughts on this? Is "tray" still heard in the UK?
>
that I don't really know how most Aussies pronounce it.
--
Lifelong resident of Adelaide, South Australia
MC
Jul 8, 2013, 1:36:50 AM7/8/13
to
In article <51da38d4$0$51731$862e...@ngroups.net>,
to the French rolling of the R.
annily <ann...@annily.invalid> wrote:
> On 08.07.13 12:23, MC wrote:
> > The usual AmE pronunciation is "trate" but when I was growing up in the
> > UK I remember some pronounced it "tray" - a nod to yer actual French I
> > suppose, but the R was not pronounced à la française.
> >
>
> How was the pronunciation of the "R" different?
It's the same as the English word tray - as in dinner tray, as opposed
> On 08.07.13 12:23, MC wrote:
> > The usual AmE pronunciation is "trate" but when I was growing up in the
> > UK I remember some pronounced it "tray" - a nod to yer actual French I
> > suppose, but the R was not pronounced à la française.
> >
>
> How was the pronunciation of the "R" different?
to the French rolling of the R.
Dr Nick
Jul 8, 2013, 2:42:23 AM7/8/13
to
MC <cope...@mapca.inter.net> writes:
> The usual AmE pronunciation is "trate" but when I was growing up in the
> UK I remember some pronounced it "tray" - a nod to yer actual French I
> suppose, but the R was not pronounced à la française.
>
> I seem to remember that those who went the "tray" route were adamant
> that theirs was the correct pronunciation, while those who went with
> "trate" regarded "tray" as affected.
>
> Any thoughts on this? Is "tray" still heard in the UK?
I picked it up in my days as a geneticist. I used in sometime in the
> The usual AmE pronunciation is "trate" but when I was growing up in the
> UK I remember some pronounced it "tray" - a nod to yer actual French I
> suppose, but the R was not pronounced à la française.
>
> I seem to remember that those who went the "tray" route were adamant
> that theirs was the correct pronunciation, while those who went with
> "trate" regarded "tray" as affected.
>
> Any thoughts on this? Is "tray" still heard in the UK?
early 90s to explosive ridicule and have never used it since.
R H Draney
Jul 8, 2013, 2:51:48 AM7/8/13
to
MC filted:
abundance as in the UK, who will switch without warning from passable English to
an inferior approximation of French for a single word, then switch back to
continue speaking....r
--
Me? Sarcastic?
Yeah, right.
>
>The usual AmE pronunciation is "trate" but when I was growing up in the
>UK I remember some pronounced it "tray" - a nod to yer actual French I
>suppose, but the R was not pronounced à la française.
>
>I seem to remember that those who went the "tray" route were adamant
>that theirs was the correct pronunciation, while those who went with
>"trate" regarded "tray" as affected.
>
>Any thoughts on this? Is "tray" still heard in the UK?
We have people like that in the US too, admittedly not in the same sort of
>The usual AmE pronunciation is "trate" but when I was growing up in the
>UK I remember some pronounced it "tray" - a nod to yer actual French I
>suppose, but the R was not pronounced à la française.
>
>I seem to remember that those who went the "tray" route were adamant
>that theirs was the correct pronunciation, while those who went with
>"trate" regarded "tray" as affected.
>
>Any thoughts on this? Is "tray" still heard in the UK?
abundance as in the UK, who will switch without warning from passable English to
an inferior approximation of French for a single word, then switch back to
continue speaking....r
--
Me? Sarcastic?
Yeah, right.
annily
Jul 8, 2013, 8:28:51 AM7/8/13
to
On 08.07.13 15:06, MC wrote:
> In article <51da38d4$0$51731$862e...@ngroups.net>,
> annily <ann...@annily.invalid> wrote:
>
>> On 08.07.13 12:23, MC wrote:
>>> The usual AmE pronunciation is "trate" but when I was growing up in the
>>> UK I remember some pronounced it "tray" - a nod to yer actual French I
>>> suppose, but the R was not pronounced à la française.
>>>
>>
>> How was the pronunciation of the "R" different?
>
> It's the same as the English word tray - as in dinner tray, as opposed
> to the French rolling of the R.
>
It sounds much the same to me. Perhaps I haven't heard enough French
> In article <51da38d4$0$51731$862e...@ngroups.net>,
> annily <ann...@annily.invalid> wrote:
>
>> On 08.07.13 12:23, MC wrote:
>>> The usual AmE pronunciation is "trate" but when I was growing up in the
>>> UK I remember some pronounced it "tray" - a nod to yer actual French I
>>> suppose, but the R was not pronounced à la française.
>>>
>>
>> How was the pronunciation of the "R" different?
>
> It's the same as the English word tray - as in dinner tray, as opposed
> to the French rolling of the R.
>
speakers. The vowel sound is a more significant difference for me.
quia...@yahoo.com
Jul 8, 2013, 9:18:32 AM7/8/13
to
--
John
MC
Jul 8, 2013, 2:50:23 PM7/8/13
to
In article <51dab085$0$35423$862e...@ngroups.net>,
http://translate.google.ca/?hl=en&tab=wT#en/fr/trait
If not, go to Google Translate, choose English as your source language
and French as the target language. Enter "trait" in the source box. It
will show "trait" in the target box. Click on the "Listen" icon (bottom
right of the target box).
annily <ann...@annily.invalid> wrote:
> On 08.07.13 15:06, MC wrote:
> > In article <51da38d4$0$51731$862e...@ngroups.net>,
> > annily <ann...@annily.invalid> wrote:
> >
> >> On 08.07.13 12:23, MC wrote:
> >>> The usual AmE pronunciation is "trate" but when I was growing up in the
> >>> UK I remember some pronounced it "tray" - a nod to yer actual French I
> >>> suppose, but the R was not pronounced à la française.
> >>>
> >>
> >> How was the pronunciation of the "R" different?
> >
> > It's the same as the English word tray - as in dinner tray, as opposed
> > to the French rolling of the R.
> >
>
> It sounds much the same to me. Perhaps I haven't heard enough French
> speakers. The vowel sound is a more significant difference for me.
This link may work for you.
> On 08.07.13 15:06, MC wrote:
> > In article <51da38d4$0$51731$862e...@ngroups.net>,
> > annily <ann...@annily.invalid> wrote:
> >
> >> On 08.07.13 12:23, MC wrote:
> >>> The usual AmE pronunciation is "trate" but when I was growing up in the
> >>> UK I remember some pronounced it "tray" - a nod to yer actual French I
> >>> suppose, but the R was not pronounced à la française.
> >>>
> >>
> >> How was the pronunciation of the "R" different?
> >
> > It's the same as the English word tray - as in dinner tray, as opposed
> > to the French rolling of the R.
> >
>
> It sounds much the same to me. Perhaps I haven't heard enough French
> speakers. The vowel sound is a more significant difference for me.
http://translate.google.ca/?hl=en&tab=wT#en/fr/trait
If not, go to Google Translate, choose English as your source language
and French as the target language. Enter "trait" in the source box. It
will show "trait" in the target box. Click on the "Listen" icon (bottom
right of the target box).
Whiskers
Jul 8, 2013, 8:42:04 AM7/8/13
to
On 2013-07-08, MC <cope...@mapca.inter.net> wrote:
> The usual AmE pronunciation is "trate" but when I was growing up in the
> UK I remember some pronounced it "tray" - a nod to yer actual French I
> suppose, but the R was not pronounced à la française.
>
> I seem to remember that those who went the "tray" route were adamant
> that theirs was the correct pronunciation, while those who went with
> "trate" regarded "tray" as affected.
>
> Any thoughts on this? Is "tray" still heard in the UK?
I can remember in the 1950s & 60s the usual BrE pronunciation was /treɪ/
> The usual AmE pronunciation is "trate" but when I was growing up in the
> UK I remember some pronounced it "tray" - a nod to yer actual French I
> suppose, but the R was not pronounced à la française.
>
> I seem to remember that those who went the "tray" route were adamant
> that theirs was the correct pronunciation, while those who went with
> "trate" regarded "tray" as affected.
>
> Any thoughts on this? Is "tray" still heard in the UK?
but these days /treɪt/ seems to be more usual. In either case, usage often
comes as "character trait" which makes the intention clear.
OED on line gives both pronunciations, but interestingly the usual meaning
of 'attribute' (noun) is listed as definition 6a!
--
-- ^^^^^^^^^^
-- Whiskers
-- ~~~~~~~~~~
Mike L
Jul 8, 2013, 6:12:06 PM7/8/13
to
--
Mike.
Jerry Friedman
Jul 8, 2013, 6:44:57 PM7/8/13
to
On Monday, July 8, 2013 7:18:32 AM UTC-6, J OFL wrote:
> On 7 Jul 2013 23:51:48 -0700, R H Draney <dado...@spamcop.net> wrote:
>
> >MC filted:
>
> >>The usual AmE pronunciation is "trate" but when I was growing up in the
> >>UK I remember some pronounced it "tray" - a nod to yer actual French I
> >>suppose, but the R was not pronounced � la fran�aise.
> On 7 Jul 2013 23:51:48 -0700, R H Draney <dado...@spamcop.net> wrote:
>
> >MC filted:
>
> >>The usual AmE pronunciation is "trate" but when I was growing up in the
> >>UK I remember some pronounced it "tray" - a nod to yer actual French I
>
> >>I seem to remember that those who went the "tray" route were adamant
> >>that theirs was the correct pronunciation, while those who went with
> >>"trate" regarded "tray" as affected.
>
> >>Any thoughts on this? Is "tray" still heard in the UK?
>
> >We have people like that in the US too, admittedly not in the same sort of
> >abundance as in the UK, who will switch without warning from passable English to
> >an inferior approximation of French for a single word, then switch back to
> >continue speaking....r
>
> For example, some medical types who say "sonntimeter".
In America? I thought that only happened in Britain.
> >>I seem to remember that those who went the "tray" route were adamant
> >>that theirs was the correct pronunciation, while those who went with
> >>"trate" regarded "tray" as affected.
>
> >>Any thoughts on this? Is "tray" still heard in the UK?
>
> >We have people like that in the US too, admittedly not in the same sort of
> >abundance as in the UK, who will switch without warning from passable English to
> >an inferior approximation of French for a single word, then switch back to
> >continue speaking....r
>
> For example, some medical types who say "sonntimeter".
--
Jerry Friedman
Robert Bannister
Jul 8, 2013, 7:41:08 PM7/8/13
to
On 8/07/13 10:53 AM, MC wrote:
> The usual AmE pronunciation is "trate" but when I was growing up in the
> UK I remember some pronounced it "tray" - a nod to yer actual French I
> suppose, but the R was not pronounced à la française.
>
> I seem to remember that those who went the "tray" route were adamant
> that theirs was the correct pronunciation, while those who went with
> "trate" regarded "tray" as affected.
>
> Any thoughts on this? Is "tray" still heard in the UK?
>
The most common pronunciation in my experience (tray).
> The usual AmE pronunciation is "trate" but when I was growing up in the
> UK I remember some pronounced it "tray" - a nod to yer actual French I
> suppose, but the R was not pronounced à la française.
>
> I seem to remember that those who went the "tray" route were adamant
> that theirs was the correct pronunciation, while those who went with
> "trate" regarded "tray" as affected.
>
> Any thoughts on this? Is "tray" still heard in the UK?
>
--
Robert Bannister
Robert Bannister
Jul 8, 2013, 7:45:21 PM7/8/13
to
sound at all French unless you look at the spelling, although the plural
(trays) might shake you up a bit. It's not like saying "trays bonn".
--
Robert Bannister
annily
Jul 8, 2013, 8:18:36 PM7/8/13
to
French lessons long ago. I don't get much exposure to French these days.
I did remember the shorter vowel sound (as opposed to the English
diphthong in "tray") though.
Swifty
Jul 9, 2013, 4:51:36 AM7/9/13
to
On 08/07/2013 13:28, annily wrote:
> Perhaps I haven't heard enough French speakers.
Think of Edith Piaf singing "Je ne regrete rien" (apologies for any
> Perhaps I haven't heard enough French speakers.
spelling errors/accent violations; schoolboy French from the 1960's)
In my visits to France, the rolling R's are much less obvious in
everyday life, but I've suspected that French people pick up on my lack
of them.
--
Steve Swift
http://www.swiftys.org.uk/
quia...@yahoo.com
Jul 9, 2013, 8:31:20 AM7/9/13
to
On Mon, 8 Jul 2013 15:44:57 -0700 (PDT), Jerry Friedman
<jerry_f...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>On Monday, July 8, 2013 7:18:32 AM UTC-6, J OFL wrote:
>> On 7 Jul 2013 23:51:48 -0700, R H Draney <dado...@spamcop.net> wrote:
>>
>> >MC filted:
>>
>> >>The usual AmE pronunciation is "trate" but when I was growing up in the
>> >>UK I remember some pronounced it "tray" - a nod to yer actual French I
>> >>suppose, but the R was not pronounced � la fran�aise.
<jerry_f...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>On Monday, July 8, 2013 7:18:32 AM UTC-6, J OFL wrote:
>> On 7 Jul 2013 23:51:48 -0700, R H Draney <dado...@spamcop.net> wrote:
>>
>> >MC filted:
>>
>> >>The usual AmE pronunciation is "trate" but when I was growing up in the
>> >>UK I remember some pronounced it "tray" - a nod to yer actual French I
>>
>> >>I seem to remember that those who went the "tray" route were adamant
>> >>that theirs was the correct pronunciation, while those who went with
>> >>"trate" regarded "tray" as affected.
>>
>> >>Any thoughts on this? Is "tray" still heard in the UK?
>>
>> >We have people like that in the US too, admittedly not in the same sort of
>> >abundance as in the UK, who will switch without warning from passable English to
>> >an inferior approximation of French for a single word, then switch back to
>> >continue speaking....r
>>
>> For example, some medical types who say "sonntimeter".
>
>In America? I thought that only happened in Britain.
Working in hospitals, I heard it in Cleveland and in St. Louis twenty
>> >>I seem to remember that those who went the "tray" route were adamant
>> >>that theirs was the correct pronunciation, while those who went with
>> >>"trate" regarded "tray" as affected.
>>
>> >>Any thoughts on this? Is "tray" still heard in the UK?
>>
>> >We have people like that in the US too, admittedly not in the same sort of
>> >abundance as in the UK, who will switch without warning from passable English to
>> >an inferior approximation of French for a single word, then switch back to
>> >continue speaking....r
>>
>> For example, some medical types who say "sonntimeter".
>
>In America? I thought that only happened in Britain.
to thirty years ago.
--
John
James Silverton
Jul 9, 2013, 8:49:41 AM7/9/13
to
when the English-speaking announcer switches to an attempt at Italian
pronunciation and accenting for names of composers, opera characters or
the operas.
--
Jim Silverton (Potomac, MD)
Extraneous "not." in Reply To.
Peter Moylan
Jul 9, 2013, 9:11:38 AM7/9/13
to
On 09/07/13 18:51, Swifty wrote:
> On 08/07/2013 13:28, annily wrote:
>> Perhaps I haven't heard enough French speakers.
>
> Think of Edith Piaf singing "Je ne regrete rien" (apologies for any
> spelling errors/accent violations; schoolboy French from the 1960's)
>
> In my visits to France, the rolling R's are much less obvious in
> everyday life, but I've suspected that French people pick up on my lack
> of them.
>
The French normally don't roll their Rs, unless you count those young
> On 08/07/2013 13:28, annily wrote:
>> Perhaps I haven't heard enough French speakers.
>
> Think of Edith Piaf singing "Je ne regrete rien" (apologies for any
> spelling errors/accent violations; schoolboy French from the 1960's)
>
> In my visits to France, the rolling R's are much less obvious in
> everyday life, but I've suspected that French people pick up on my lack
> of them.
>
women in the tight skirts. The trilled version is reserved for special
emphasis. Some singers, especially, do it, and this is what you hear
when you listen to Piaf.
(I enjoy singing that song, but I never quite manage to give full value
to the R in "tremolos".)
--
Peter Moylan, Newcastle, NSW, Australia. http://www.pmoylan.org
For an e-mail address, see my web page.
Jerry Friedman
Jul 9, 2013, 10:06:17 AM7/9/13
to
On Tuesday, July 9, 2013 6:31:20 AM UTC-6, J OFL wrote:
> On Mon, 8 Jul 2013 15:44:57 -0700 (PDT), Jerry Friedman
> <jerry_f...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> >On Monday, July 8, 2013 7:18:32 AM UTC-6, J OFL wrote:
...
> On Mon, 8 Jul 2013 15:44:57 -0700 (PDT), Jerry Friedman
> <jerry_f...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> >On Monday, July 8, 2013 7:18:32 AM UTC-6, J OFL wrote:
> >> For example, some medical types who say "sonntimeter".
>
> >In America? I thought that only happened in Britain.
>
> Working in hospitals, I heard it in Cleveland and in St. Louis twenty
> to thirty years ago.
weeks thirty years ago, but I had things other than pronunciation on my
mind.
--
Jerry Friedman
Oliver Cromm
Jul 9, 2013, 12:29:35 PM7/9/13
to
* quia...@yahoo.com:
Was that Saint Louis or Sae Louey?
--
Humans write software and while a piece of software might be
bug free humans are not. - Robert Klemme
--
Humans write software and while a piece of software might be
bug free humans are not. - Robert Klemme
Mike L
Jul 9, 2013, 5:16:06 PM7/9/13
to
>On Monday, July 8, 2013 7:18:32 AM UTC-6, J OFL wrote:
>> On 7 Jul 2013 23:51:48 -0700, R H Draney <dado...@spamcop.net> wrote:
>>
>> >MC filted:
>>
>> >>The usual AmE pronunciation is "trate" but when I was growing up in the
>> >>UK I remember some pronounced it "tray" - a nod to yer actual French I
>> >>suppose, but the R was not pronounced � la fran�aise.
>> On 7 Jul 2013 23:51:48 -0700, R H Draney <dado...@spamcop.net> wrote:
>>
>> >MC filted:
>>
>> >>The usual AmE pronunciation is "trate" but when I was growing up in the
>> >>UK I remember some pronounced it "tray" - a nod to yer actual French I
>>
>> >>I seem to remember that those who went the "tray" route were adamant
>> >>that theirs was the correct pronunciation, while those who went with
>> >>"trate" regarded "tray" as affected.
>>
>> >>Any thoughts on this? Is "tray" still heard in the UK?
>>
>> >We have people like that in the US too, admittedly not in the same sort of
>> >abundance as in the UK, who will switch without warning from passable English to
>> >an inferior approximation of French for a single word, then switch back to
>> >continue speaking....r
>>
>> For example, some medical types who say "sonntimeter".
>
>In America? I thought that only happened in Britain.
I've never heard it in Britain. Do they also say "sontigrade" for the
>> >>I seem to remember that those who went the "tray" route were adamant
>> >>that theirs was the correct pronunciation, while those who went with
>> >>"trate" regarded "tray" as affected.
>>
>> >>Any thoughts on this? Is "tray" still heard in the UK?
>>
>> >We have people like that in the US too, admittedly not in the same sort of
>> >abundance as in the UK, who will switch without warning from passable English to
>> >an inferior approximation of French for a single word, then switch back to
>> >continue speaking....r
>>
>> For example, some medical types who say "sonntimeter".
>
>In America? I thought that only happened in Britain.
proper British "sowsius"?
--
Mike.
Mike Barnes
Jul 9, 2013, 5:29:20 PM7/9/13
to
Mike L <n...@yahoo.co.uk>:
Nor I. But I have frequently heard "onvelope", which either makes me
grit my teeth or smirk depending on my mood at the time.
--
Mike Barnes
Cheshire, England
grit my teeth or smirk depending on my mood at the time.
--
Mike Barnes
Cheshire, England
Robin Bignall
Jul 9, 2013, 7:00:57 PM7/9/13
to
On Tue, 9 Jul 2013 22:29:20 +0100, Mike Barnes <mikeba...@gmail.com>
wrote:
Don't forget the "stemp" before posting.
--
Robin Bignall
Herts, England (BrE)
wrote:
--
Robin Bignall
Herts, England (BrE)
quia...@yahoo.com
Jul 9, 2013, 7:11:22 PM7/9/13
to
pronunciation still has some currency, and mentions some other words
from French -
"Other similar words borrowed from French in the modern period include
envoy (17th century), encore, ennui, ensemble, entree (18th century),
entourage, and entrepreneur (19th century). Most retain their
pseudo-French pronunciations, with the exception of envoy, which, like
envelope, is mainly pronounced with (en) now."
--
John
Robert Bannister
Jul 9, 2013, 11:23:23 PM7/9/13
to
On 9/07/13 4:51 PM, Swifty wrote:
> On 08/07/2013 13:28, annily wrote:
>> Perhaps I haven't heard enough French speakers.
>
> Think of Edith Piaf singing "Je ne regrete rien" (apologies for any
> spelling errors/accent violations; schoolboy French from the 1960's)
>
> In my visits to France, the rolling R's are much less obvious in
> everyday life, but I've suspected that French people pick up on my lack
> of them.
>
Edith uses a trilled R which used to be standard for singing and on the
> On 08/07/2013 13:28, annily wrote:
>> Perhaps I haven't heard enough French speakers.
>
> Think of Edith Piaf singing "Je ne regrete rien" (apologies for any
> spelling errors/accent violations; schoolboy French from the 1960's)
>
> In my visits to France, the rolling R's are much less obvious in
> everyday life, but I've suspected that French people pick up on my lack
> of them.
>
stage in general. It is not the same as the uvular R used by most,
though not all French people in regular speech.
--
Robert Bannister
Robert Bannister
Jul 9, 2013, 11:26:41 PM7/9/13
to
pronunciation I ever heard. The spelling pronunciation gradually grew
till I realised I was using all the time.
(All the time when I was saying "envelope", that is. I don't go round
saying "õn" all the time".)
--
Robert Bannister
annily
Jul 10, 2013, 12:04:43 AM7/10/13
to
On 10.07.13 12:56, Robert Bannister wrote:
> On 10/07/13 5:29 AM, Mike Barnes wrote:
>> Mike L <n...@yahoo.co.uk>:
>>> On Mon, 8 Jul 2013 15:44:57 -0700 (PDT), Jerry Friedman
>>> <jerry_f...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Monday, July 8, 2013 7:18:32 AM UTC-6, J OFL wrote:
>>>>> For example, some medical types who say "sonntimeter".
>>>>
>>>> In America? I thought that only happened in Britain.
>>>
>>> I've never heard it in Britain.
>>
>> Nor I. But I have frequently heard "onvelope", which either makes me
>> grit my teeth or smirk depending on my mood at the time.
>>
>
> I think that when I was very young that was just about the only
> pronunciation I ever heard. The spelling pronunciation gradually grew
> till I realised I was using all the time.
>
That's pretty much the same as my experience.
> On 10/07/13 5:29 AM, Mike Barnes wrote:
>> Mike L <n...@yahoo.co.uk>:
>>> On Mon, 8 Jul 2013 15:44:57 -0700 (PDT), Jerry Friedman
>>> <jerry_f...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Monday, July 8, 2013 7:18:32 AM UTC-6, J OFL wrote:
>>>>> For example, some medical types who say "sonntimeter".
>>>>
>>>> In America? I thought that only happened in Britain.
>>>
>>> I've never heard it in Britain.
>>
>> Nor I. But I have frequently heard "onvelope", which either makes me
>> grit my teeth or smirk depending on my mood at the time.
>>
>
> I think that when I was very young that was just about the only
> pronunciation I ever heard. The spelling pronunciation gradually grew
> till I realised I was using all the time.
>
R H Draney
Jul 10, 2013, 12:36:26 AM7/10/13
to
quia...@yahoo.com filted:
>
>"Other similar words borrowed from French in the modern period include
>envoy (17th century), encore, ennui, ensemble, entree (18th century),
>entourage, and entrepreneur (19th century). Most retain their
>pseudo-French pronunciations, with the exception of envoy, which, like
>envelope, is mainly pronounced with (en) now."
Now that Warren Zevon's gone, at any rate....r
>"Other similar words borrowed from French in the modern period include
>envoy (17th century), encore, ennui, ensemble, entree (18th century),
>entourage, and entrepreneur (19th century). Most retain their
>pseudo-French pronunciations, with the exception of envoy, which, like
>envelope, is mainly pronounced with (en) now."
Mike Barnes
Jul 10, 2013, 2:10:45 AM7/10/13
to
Robert Bannister <rob...@clubtelco.com>:
>On 10/07/13 5:29 AM, Mike Barnes wrote:
>>I have frequently heard "onvelope", which either makes me
>> grit my teeth or smirk depending on my mood at the time.
>
>I think that when I was very young that was just about the only
>pronunciation I ever heard. The spelling pronunciation gradually grew
>till I realised I was using all the time.
AAMOI how was the verb pronounced?
>>I have frequently heard "onvelope", which either makes me
>> grit my teeth or smirk depending on my mood at the time.
>
>I think that when I was very young that was just about the only
>pronunciation I ever heard. The spelling pronunciation gradually grew
>till I realised I was using all the time.
Robin Bignall
Jul 10, 2013, 4:40:59 PM7/10/13
to
Mike L
Jul 10, 2013, 5:37:38 PM7/10/13
to
>Robert Bannister <rob...@clubtelco.com>:
>>On 10/07/13 5:29 AM, Mike Barnes wrote:
>>>I have frequently heard "onvelope", which either makes me
>>> grit my teeth or smirk depending on my mood at the time.
>>
>>I think that when I was very young that was just about the only
>>pronunciation I ever heard. The spelling pronunciation gradually grew
>>till I realised I was using all the time.
I'm with you and Annily, but I think I may still use the "on" version.
>>On 10/07/13 5:29 AM, Mike Barnes wrote:
>>>I have frequently heard "onvelope", which either makes me
>>> grit my teeth or smirk depending on my mood at the time.
>>
>>I think that when I was very young that was just about the only
>>pronunciation I ever heard. The spelling pronunciation gradually grew
>>till I realised I was using all the time.
>
>AAMOI how was the verb pronounced?
Fair question. I think we always said "put [x] in an envelope"; but if
>AAMOI how was the verb pronounced?
we had wanted to verb the noun, it would still have been "on-".
"Envelop", of course, had "en-" and a second-syll stress: that would
be used in connection with envelopes only jocularly, anyhow.
--
Mike.
Robert Bannister
Jul 10, 2013, 7:17:46 PM7/10/13
to
--
Robert Bannister
Robin Bignall
Jul 10, 2013, 7:25:25 PM7/10/13
to
Oliver Cromm
Jul 11, 2013, 1:28:14 PM7/11/13
to
* Mike Barnes:
I have never heard that, but "ahnvelope", occasionally. Do you
recognize "ahn-" as different from your "on-"?
--
*Hardware* /n./ The parts of a computer that can be kicked
recognize "ahn-" as different from your "on-"?
--
*Hardware* /n./ The parts of a computer that can be kicked
Nick Spalding
Jul 11, 2013, 4:30:14 PM7/11/13
to
Oliver Cromm wrote, in <esudaxryb6x$.d...@mid.crommatograph.info>
on Thu, 11 Jul 2013 13:28:14 -0400:
I would if I had ever heard it.
--
Nick Spalding
BrE/IrE
on Thu, 11 Jul 2013 13:28:14 -0400:
--
Nick Spalding
BrE/IrE
Mike L
Jul 11, 2013, 5:47:03 PM7/11/13
to
--
Mike.
Robin Bignall
Jul 11, 2013, 6:54:05 PM7/11/13
to
Robert Bannister
Jul 11, 2013, 8:31:47 PM7/11/13
to
"translate" ah into o. I recall a very few people who did an almost real
French nasal "en" sound too, which only sounds a bit like "on".
--
Robert Bannister
Mike Barnes
Jul 11, 2013, 6:55:11 PM7/11/13
to
Oliver Cromm <lispa...@crommatograph.info>:
Yes. I would expect an American saying "onvelope" to sound rather like a
Brit saying "ahnvelope".
Brit saying "ahnvelope".
Dr Nick
Jul 12, 2013, 2:47:02 AM7/12/13
to
often as "envelope". It's clearly a strange pronunciation but I've
never particularly thought about it as French (although it's clearly
French influenced) and it's not any attempt at a French "ahn".
kh74...@gmail.com
Jan 28, 2020, 5:58:04 PM1/28/20
to
On Sunday, July 7, 2013 at 10:53:12 PM UTC-4, MC wrote:
> The usual AmE pronunciation is "trate" but when I was growing up in the
> UK I remember some pronounced it "tray" - a nod to yer actual French I
> suppose, but the R was not pronounced à la française.
> The usual AmE pronunciation is "trate" but when I was growing up in the
> UK I remember some pronounced it "tray" - a nod to yer actual French I
Peter Moylan
Jan 28, 2020, 7:50:12 PM1/28/20
to
musika
Jan 28, 2020, 8:26:28 PM1/28/20
to
On 29/01/2020 00:50, Peter Moylan wrote:
> On 29/01/20 09:58, kh74...@gmail.com wrote:
>> On Sunday, July 7, 2013 at 10:53:12 PM UTC-4, MC wrote:
>
>>> The usual AmE pronunciation is "trate" but when I was growing up
>>> in the UK I remember some pronounced it "tray" - a nod to yer
>>> actual French I suppose, but the R was not pronounced à la
>>> française.
>>>
>>> I seem to remember that those who went the "tray" route were
>>> adama
>
> ndeve.
>
damant.
> On 29/01/20 09:58, kh74...@gmail.com wrote:
>> On Sunday, July 7, 2013 at 10:53:12 PM UTC-4, MC wrote:
>
>>> The usual AmE pronunciation is "trate" but when I was growing up
>>> in the UK I remember some pronounced it "tray" - a nod to yer
>>> actual French I suppose, but the R was not pronounced à la
>>> française.
>>>
>>> I seem to remember that those who went the "tray" route were
>>> adama
>
> ndeve.
>
--
Ray
UK
CDB
Jan 29, 2020, 9:01:48 AM1/29/20
to
Canadian mother corrected it immediately to "tray".
I still said "trayt" to Americans, though, not being a complete fool.
lovin...@novabbs.i2p
Jan 29, 2020, 1:01:34 PM1/29/20
to
Kh how are you?
I like your profile. My name is Carolina.
Can we get to know each other?
Would be glad if you reply me.
You can write to my private email: mailto:carojo...@yahoo.com
Thank you.
I like your profile. My name is Carolina.
Can we get to know each other?
Would be glad if you reply me.
You can write to my private email: mailto:carojo...@yahoo.com
Thank you.
John Dunlop
Jan 29, 2020, 1:23:47 PM1/29/20
to
CDB:
OED2 (1989):
"The pronunciation (treɪ), after mod. French, in the 19th c. considered
in England the correct one, is becoming less general; in U.S. (treɪt) is
the established one."
I expect it's pretty ungeneral by now.
--
John
"The pronunciation (treɪ), after mod. French, in the 19th c. considered
in England the correct one, is becoming less general; in U.S. (treɪt) is
the established one."
I expect it's pretty ungeneral by now.
--
John
CDB
Jan 29, 2020, 5:28:42 PM1/29/20
to
Ross
Jan 30, 2020, 12:45:25 AM1/30/20
to
Jones XI (1967) and XVII (2006), but still listed.
Athel Cornish-Bowden
Jan 30, 2020, 1:19:21 AM1/30/20
to
--
athel
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