Self explanatory or self-explanatory

Stan Brown

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Mar 29, 2014, 8:10:28 PM3/29/14

to

Following the normal rules for two-word adjectives, I write "self
explanatory", without hyphen, in "The instructions are self
explanatory."

The Microsoft Word spelling and grammar checker flags it as an error
and wants me to hyphenate. I'm pretty sure that Word is wrong and
I'm right, but I'd appreciate other opinions.

--
"The difference between the /almost right/ word and the /right/ word
is ... the difference between the lightning-bug and the lightning."
--Mark Twain
Stan Brown, Tompkins County, NY, USA http://OakRoadSystems.com

Mark Brader

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Mar 29, 2014, 10:43:50 PM3/29/14

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Stan Brown:

> Following the normal rules for two-word adjectives, I write "self
> explanatory", without hyphen, in "The instructions are self
> explanatory."

The normal rule for words formed from the object of a verb and any
noun or adjectival form of that verb is that they are hyphenated
in any position. Load-bearing wall. Ball-bearing mousetrap.<*>
Freedom-loving people. Freedom-lovers. English-speaking people.
English-speakers. Self-explanatory instructions. Daylight-saving
time.<**> And see the signature.

<*> A tomcat.
<**> Well, it should be.
--
Mark Brader, Toronto "In my case, self-absorption is
m...@vex.net completely justified." -- LAURA

My text in this article is in the public domain.

Steve Hayes

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Mar 30, 2014, 12:41:28 AM3/30/14

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On Sat, 29 Mar 2014 20:10:28 -0400, Stan Brown <the_sta...@fastmail.fm>
wrote:

>
>Following the normal rules for two-word adjectives, I write "self
>explanatory", without hyphen, in "The instructions are self
>explanatory."
>
>The Microsoft Word spelling and grammar checker flags it as an error
>and wants me to hyphenate. I'm pretty sure that Word is wrong and
>I'm right, but I'd appreciate other opinions.

And if you do hyphenate it'll probably tell you you are wrong and want you not
to hyphenate.

--
Steve Hayes from Tshwane, South Africa
Web: http://www.khanya.org.za/stevesig.htm
Blog: http://khanya.wordpress.com
E-mail - see web page, or parse: shayes at dunelm full stop org full stop uk

James Hogg

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Mar 30, 2014, 1:39:28 AM3/30/14

to

Stan Brown wrote:
> Following the normal rules for two-word adjectives, I write "self
> explanatory", without hyphen, in "The instructions are self
> explanatory."
>
> The Microsoft Word spelling and grammar checker flags it as an error
> and wants me to hyphenate. I'm pretty sure that Word is wrong and
> I'm right, but I'd appreciate other opinions.

But the normal rule is that all compounds of "self-" are hyphenated. Both
the COD and the Chicago Manual are clear on that.

--
James

R H Draney

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Mar 30, 2014, 3:56:09 AM3/30/14

to

Mark Brader filted:

>
>Stan Brown:
>> Following the normal rules for two-word adjectives, I write "self
>> explanatory", without hyphen, in "The instructions are self
>> explanatory."
>
>The normal rule for words formed from the object of a verb and any
>noun or adjectival form of that verb is that they are hyphenated
>in any position. Load-bearing wall. Ball-bearing mousetrap.<*>
>Freedom-loving people. Freedom-lovers. English-speaking people.
>English-speakers. Self-explanatory instructions. Daylight-saving
>time.<**> And see the signature.
>
><*> A tomcat.
><**> Well, it should be.

So a "man-eating shark" is a deadly prehistoric killing machine, while a "man
eating shark" is just someone enjoying some seafood....r

--
Me? Sarcastic?
Yeah, right.

Guy Barry

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Mar 30, 2014, 4:15:59 AM3/30/14

to

"Stan Brown" wrote in message
news:MPG.2da0c98fc...@news.individual.net...

>
>
>Following the normal rules for two-word adjectives, I write "self
>explanatory", without hyphen, in "The instructions are self
>explanatory."

What normal rules are they? I write all such adjectives with a hyphen:
"self-evident", "self-confessed", "self-critical" and so on.

>The Microsoft Word spelling and grammar checker flags it as an error
>and wants me to hyphenate. I'm pretty sure that Word is wrong and
>I'm right, but I'd appreciate other opinions.

Sorry, but I agree with Microsoft Word on this one, as does my dictionary
(and Burchfield).

--
Guy Barry

Athel Cornish-Bowden

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Mar 30, 2014, 7:57:27 AM3/30/14

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On 2014-03-30 00:10:28 +0000, Stan Brown said:

> Following the normal rules for two-word adjectives, I write "self
> explanatory", without hyphen, in "The instructions are self
> explanatory."
>
> The Microsoft Word spelling and grammar checker flags it as an error
> and wants me to hyphenate. I'm pretty sure that Word is wrong and
> I'm right, but I'd appreciate other opinions.

I hyphenate (but not because Word expects it -- I'd rather spend the
whole day reading Jenn's posts than to start using Word). However, I
don't feel the hyphen is essential.
--
athel

Stan Brown

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Mar 30, 2014, 10:13:05 AM3/30/14

to

So "self" compounds don't follow the normal rule for two-word
adjectives: hyphenate in attributive position, don't hyphenate in
predicate position. I'm not sure how I missed that rule all these
years, but thanks for the explanation. I will conform. :-)

Peter T. Daniels

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Mar 30, 2014, 10:28:55 AM3/30/14

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On Sunday, March 30, 2014 7:57:27 AM UTC-4, Athel Cornish-Bowden wrote:

> I hyphenate (but not because Word expects it -- I'd rather spend the
> whole day reading Jenn's posts than to start using Word). However, I
> don't feel the hyphen is essential.

Double bigotry! He doesn't know anything about Word, either.

Guy Barry

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Mar 30, 2014, 10:32:21 AM3/30/14

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"Athel Cornish-Bowden" wrote in message
news:bpqf52...@mid.individual.net...

The "to" before "start" is redundant.

--
Guy Barry

Guy Barry

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Mar 30, 2014, 11:09:22 AM3/30/14

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"Stan Brown" wrote in message

news:MPG.2da1f0803...@news.individual.net...

>
>On Sun, 30 Mar 2014 07:39:28 +0200, James Hogg wrote:
>>
>> Stan Brown wrote:
>> > Following the normal rules for two-word adjectives, I write "self
>> > explanatory", without hyphen, in "The instructions are self
>> > explanatory."
>> >
>> > The Microsoft Word spelling and grammar checker flags it as an error
>> > and wants me to hyphenate. I'm pretty sure that Word is wrong and
>> > I'm right, but I'd appreciate other opinions.
>>
>> But the normal rule is that all compounds of "self-" are hyphenated. Both
>> the COD and the Chicago Manual are clear on that.
>
>So "self" compounds don't follow the normal rule for two-word
>adjectives: hyphenate in attributive position, don't hyphenate in
>predicate position. I'm not sure how I missed that rule all these
>years, but thanks for the explanation. I will conform. :-)

Ah, I think you're talking about distinctions like "a well-preserved
building" and "the building was well preserved", where the first part of the
compound is an adverb. I don't think it applies when the first part is a
noun or has the force of a noun, but I'm searching for examples. "A
hair-splitting distinction" - would one write "the distinction was
hair-splitting" or "the distinction was hair splitting"? Neither seems
quite right, but I'd say the first was preferable.

--
Guy Barry

Stan Brown

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Mar 30, 2014, 12:50:22 PM3/30/14

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On Sun, 30 Mar 2014 16:09:22 +0100, Guy Barry wrote:
> would one write "the distinction was
> hair-splitting" or "the distinction was hair splitting"? Neither seems
> quite right, but I'd say the first was preferable.
>

I think neither one _is_ quite right, but I can't articulate why.