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Rowlock or oarlock?
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James Silverton
Sep 12, 2011, 12:18:10 PM9/12/11
to
Reading Anne Perry's "Acceptable Loss", I was a little surprised by her
use of "oarlock" instead of "rowlock' for an oar holder on a boat. It
was obvious what was meant but I can't recall seeing the word before.
The OED says "oarlock" is "now chiefly N. American" but Perry is a New
Zealander, is she not?
--
James Silverton, Potomac
I'm *not* not.jim....@verizon.net
use of "oarlock" instead of "rowlock' for an oar holder on a boat. It
was obvious what was meant but I can't recall seeing the word before.
The OED says "oarlock" is "now chiefly N. American" but Perry is a New
Zealander, is she not?
--
James Silverton, Potomac
I'm *not* not.jim....@verizon.net
Skitt
Sep 12, 2011, 12:27:44 PM9/12/11
to
James Silverton wrote:
> Reading Anne Perry's "Acceptable Loss", I was a little surprised by her
> use of "oarlock" instead of "rowlock' for an oar holder on a boat. It
> was obvious what was meant but I can't recall seeing the word before.
> The OED says "oarlock" is "now chiefly N. American" but Perry is a New
> Zealander, is she not?
Hmm. Yes, "oarlock" is the word I'm familiar with here in North
> Reading Anne Perry's "Acceptable Loss", I was a little surprised by her
> use of "oarlock" instead of "rowlock' for an oar holder on a boat. It
> was obvious what was meant but I can't recall seeing the word before.
> The OED says "oarlock" is "now chiefly N. American" but Perry is a New
> Zealander, is she not?
America. It is also the one that makes sense. We are not locking rows,
are we?
--
Skitt (SF Bay Area)
http://come.to/skitt
micky
Sep 12, 2011, 12:33:47 PM9/12/11
to
On Mon, 12 Sep 2011 12:18:10 -0400, James Silverton
<not.jim....@verizon.net> wrote:
>Reading Anne Perry's "Acceptable Loss", I was a little surprised by her
>use of "oarlock" instead of "rowlock' for an oar holder on a boat. It
I've never heard of a rowlock. Used oarlock all my life, maybe
<not.jim....@verizon.net> wrote:
>Reading Anne Perry's "Acceptable Loss", I was a little surprised by her
>use of "oarlock" instead of "rowlock' for an oar holder on a boat. It
learned it from TV when I was under 15.
>was obvious what was meant but I can't recall seeing the word before.
>The OED says "oarlock" is "now chiefly N. American" but Perry is a New
>Zealander, is she not?
>--
>
>
>James Silverton, Potomac
this!
>
>I'm *not* not.jim....@verizon.net
James Silverton
Sep 12, 2011, 12:41:22 PM9/12/11
to
be moored in Potomac village, as far as I know. It is also about 20
years since I last rowed a boat.
Cheryl
Sep 12, 2011, 12:58:57 PM9/12/11
to
On 2011-09-12 1:48 PM, James Silverton wrote:
> Reading Anne Perry's "Acceptable Loss", I was a little surprised by her
> use of "oarlock" instead of "rowlock' for an oar holder on a boat. It
> was obvious what was meant but I can't recall seeing the word before.
> The OED says "oarlock" is "now chiefly N. American" but Perry is a New
> Zealander, is she not?
I think this is the first time I've heard or read 'rowlock', but I'm
> Reading Anne Perry's "Acceptable Loss", I was a little surprised by her
> use of "oarlock" instead of "rowlock' for an oar holder on a boat. It
> was obvious what was meant but I can't recall seeing the word before.
> The OED says "oarlock" is "now chiefly N. American" but Perry is a New
> Zealander, is she not?
quite familiar with oarlocks.
I am in North America.
--
Cheryl
Leslie Danks
Sep 12, 2011, 1:39:05 PM9/12/11
to
Skitt wrote:
> James Silverton wrote:
>
>> Reading Anne Perry's "Acceptable Loss", I was a little surprised by her
>> use of "oarlock" instead of "rowlock' for an oar holder on a boat. It
>> was obvious what was meant but I can't recall seeing the word before.
>> The OED says "oarlock" is "now chiefly N. American" but Perry is a New
>> Zealander, is she not?
>
> Hmm. Yes, "oarlock" is the word I'm familiar with here in North
> America.
I've onnly ever come across "rowlock".
> James Silverton wrote:
>
>> Reading Anne Perry's "Acceptable Loss", I was a little surprised by her
>> use of "oarlock" instead of "rowlock' for an oar holder on a boat. It
>> was obvious what was meant but I can't recall seeing the word before.
>> The OED says "oarlock" is "now chiefly N. American" but Perry is a New
>> Zealander, is she not?
>
> Hmm. Yes, "oarlock" is the word I'm familiar with here in North
> America.
> It is also the one that makes sense. We are not locking rows,
> are we?
--
Les
(BrE)
Skitt
Sep 12, 2011, 2:04:09 PM9/12/11
to
Katy Jennison
Sep 12, 2011, 3:56:57 PM9/12/11
to
On 12/09/2011 18:39, Leslie Danks wrote:
> Skitt wrote:
>
>> James Silverton wrote:
>>
>>> Reading Anne Perry's "Acceptable Loss", I was a little surprised by her
>>> use of "oarlock" instead of "rowlock' for an oar holder on a boat. It
>>> was obvious what was meant but I can't recall seeing the word before.
>>> The OED says "oarlock" is "now chiefly N. American" but Perry is a New
>>> Zealander, is she not?
>>
>> Hmm. Yes, "oarlock" is the word I'm familiar with here in North
>> America.
>
> I've only ever come across "rowlock".
> Skitt wrote:
>
>> James Silverton wrote:
>>
>>> Reading Anne Perry's "Acceptable Loss", I was a little surprised by her
>>> use of "oarlock" instead of "rowlock' for an oar holder on a boat. It
>>> was obvious what was meant but I can't recall seeing the word before.
>>> The OED says "oarlock" is "now chiefly N. American" but Perry is a New
>>> Zealander, is she not?
>>
>> Hmm. Yes, "oarlock" is the word I'm familiar with here in North
>> America.
>
>
To me (BrE), too, "rowlock" is the only term I've met, up to now.
I wonder, though, how "oarlock" is pronounced. ... Ah, having writen
that, it occurred to me to check it on the admirable "Howjsay" website.
If that's accurate, it's more or less like "warlock" without the w. I
had been wondering if it actually sounded anything like the BrE
pronunciation of "rowlock", which is not "roe-lock" but "roll@ck" (to
rhyme roughly with "bollock"). But it doesn't.
However, maybe Howjsay isn't as admirable as I thought, because I've
just checked its offering for "rowlock" and it gives an unmistakable
"roe-lock". So either it's unreliable, and therefore may not have got
"oarlock" right either, or perhaps "rowlock" is pronounced differently
these days, by Brits younger than I (of which there are millions).
--
Katy Jennison
musika
Sep 12, 2011, 3:57:17 PM9/12/11
to
--
Ray
UK
Peter Duncanson (BrE)
Sep 12, 2011, 4:19:37 PM9/12/11
to
On Mon, 12 Sep 2011 20:56:57 +0100, Katy Jennison
<ka...@spamtrap.kjennison.com> wrote:
>On 12/09/2011 18:39, Leslie Danks wrote:
>> Skitt wrote:
>>
>>> James Silverton wrote:
>>>
>>>> Reading Anne Perry's "Acceptable Loss", I was a little surprised by her
>>>> use of "oarlock" instead of "rowlock' for an oar holder on a boat. It
>>>> was obvious what was meant but I can't recall seeing the word before.
>>>> The OED says "oarlock" is "now chiefly N. American" but Perry is a New
>>>> Zealander, is she not?
>>>
>>> Hmm. Yes, "oarlock" is the word I'm familiar with here in North
>>> America.
>>
>> I've only ever come across "rowlock".
>>
>
>To me (BrE), too, "rowlock" is the only term I've met, up to now.
Ditto.
<ka...@spamtrap.kjennison.com> wrote:
>On 12/09/2011 18:39, Leslie Danks wrote:
>> Skitt wrote:
>>
>>> James Silverton wrote:
>>>
>>>> Reading Anne Perry's "Acceptable Loss", I was a little surprised by her
>>>> use of "oarlock" instead of "rowlock' for an oar holder on a boat. It
>>>> was obvious what was meant but I can't recall seeing the word before.
>>>> The OED says "oarlock" is "now chiefly N. American" but Perry is a New
>>>> Zealander, is she not?
>>>
>>> Hmm. Yes, "oarlock" is the word I'm familiar with here in North
>>> America.
>>
>> I've only ever come across "rowlock".
>>
>
>To me (BrE), too, "rowlock" is the only term I've met, up to now.
http://oxforddictionaries.com/definition/rowlock
rowlock
noun
British
a fitting on the gunwale of a boat which serves as a fulcrum for an
oar and keeps it in place.
Origin:
mid 18th century: alteration of oarlock, influenced by the verb
row
--
Peter Duncanson, UK
(in alt.usage.english)
Skitt
Sep 12, 2011, 4:30:56 PM9/12/11
to
rowlock
Origin:
mid 18th century: alteration of oarlock, influenced by the verb
row
I hope you were just trying to be funny.
Glenn Knickerbocker
Sep 12, 2011, 5:09:02 PM9/12/11
to
On 09/12/2011 03:56 PM, Katy Jennison wrote:
> the BrE pronunciation of "rowlock", which is not "roe-lock" but
> "roll@ck" (to rhyme roughly with "bollock").
That could add a whole raft of possibilities to "A rollicking band of
> the BrE pronunciation of "rowlock", which is not "roe-lock" but
> "roll@ck" (to rhyme roughly with "bollock").
pirates we."
ŹR
Peter Moylan
Sep 12, 2011, 6:29:38 PM9/12/11
to
--
Peter Moylan, Newcastle, NSW, Australia. http://www.pmoylan.org
For an e-mail address, see my web page.
John Dean
Sep 12, 2011, 6:46:07 PM9/12/11
to
James Silverton wrote:
> Reading Anne Perry's "Acceptable Loss", I was a little surprised by
> her use of "oarlock" instead of "rowlock' for an oar holder on a
> boat. It was obvious what was meant but I can't recall seeing the
> word before. The OED says "oarlock" is "now chiefly N. American" but
> Perry is a New Zealander, is she not?
Heavenly Creature that she is, she was born in London, spent time in the
> Reading Anne Perry's "Acceptable Loss", I was a little surprised by
> her use of "oarlock" instead of "rowlock' for an oar holder on a
> boat. It was obvious what was meant but I can't recall seeing the
> word before. The OED says "oarlock" is "now chiefly N. American" but
> Perry is a New Zealander, is she not?
Caribbean and South Africa and arrived in NZ when she was 13. Left NZ in her
early twenties, lived some years in the USA and settled in Scotland.
http://www.anneperry.net/aboutanne
--
John Dean
Oxford
Jerry Friedman
Sep 12, 2011, 6:39:20 PM9/12/11
to
On Sep 12, 1:56 pm, Katy Jennison <k...@spamtrap.kjennison.com> wrote:
> On 12/09/2011 18:39, Leslie Danks wrote:
>
> > Skitt wrote:
>
> >> James Silverton wrote:
>
> >>> Reading Anne Perry's "Acceptable Loss", I was a little surprised by her
> >>> use of "oarlock" instead of "rowlock' for an oar holder on a boat. It
> >>> was obvious what was meant but I can't recall seeing the word before.
> >>> The OED says "oarlock" is "now chiefly N. American" but Perry is a New
> >>> Zealander, is she not?
>
> >> Hmm. Yes, "oarlock" is the word I'm familiar with here in North
> >> America.
I concur with you and the other North Americans who have answered.
> On 12/09/2011 18:39, Leslie Danks wrote:
>
> > Skitt wrote:
>
> >> James Silverton wrote:
>
> >>> Reading Anne Perry's "Acceptable Loss", I was a little surprised by her
> >>> use of "oarlock" instead of "rowlock' for an oar holder on a boat. It
> >>> was obvious what was meant but I can't recall seeing the word before.
> >>> The OED says "oarlock" is "now chiefly N. American" but Perry is a New
> >>> Zealander, is she not?
>
> >> Hmm. Yes, "oarlock" is the word I'm familiar with here in North
> >> America.
> > I've only ever come across "rowlock".
>
> To me (BrE), too, "rowlock" is the only term I've met, up to now.
>
> I wonder, though, how "oarlock" is pronounced. ... Ah, having writen
> that, it occurred to me to check it on the admirable "Howjsay" website.
> If that's accurate, it's more or less like "warlock" without the w.
That's accurate. Not even "more or less" as far as I'm concerned.
There once was a person from Porlock... (Actually, someone's about to
tell me "Porlock" has a schwa or something.)
--
Jerry Friedman
annily
Sep 12, 2011, 8:56:46 PM9/12/11
to
On 13.09.11 05:49, Peter Duncanson (BrE) wrote:
> On Mon, 12 Sep 2011 20:56:57 +0100, Katy Jennison
> <ka...@spamtrap.kjennison.com> wrote:
>
>> On 12/09/2011 18:39, Leslie Danks wrote:
>>> Skitt wrote:
>>>
>>>> James Silverton wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Reading Anne Perry's "Acceptable Loss", I was a little surprised by her
>>>>> use of "oarlock" instead of "rowlock' for an oar holder on a boat. It
>>>>> was obvious what was meant but I can't recall seeing the word before.
>>>>> The OED says "oarlock" is "now chiefly N. American" but Perry is a New
>>>>> Zealander, is she not?
>>>>
>>>> Hmm. Yes, "oarlock" is the word I'm familiar with here in North
>>>> America.
>>>
>>> I've only ever come across "rowlock".
>>>
>>
>> To me (BrE), too, "rowlock" is the only term I've met, up to now.
>
> Ditto.
>
Likewise for me (AusE). Despite being exposed to AmE via TV and movies
> On Mon, 12 Sep 2011 20:56:57 +0100, Katy Jennison
> <ka...@spamtrap.kjennison.com> wrote:
>
>> On 12/09/2011 18:39, Leslie Danks wrote:
>>> Skitt wrote:
>>>
>>>> James Silverton wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Reading Anne Perry's "Acceptable Loss", I was a little surprised by her
>>>>> use of "oarlock" instead of "rowlock' for an oar holder on a boat. It
>>>>> was obvious what was meant but I can't recall seeing the word before.
>>>>> The OED says "oarlock" is "now chiefly N. American" but Perry is a New
>>>>> Zealander, is she not?
>>>>
>>>> Hmm. Yes, "oarlock" is the word I'm familiar with here in North
>>>> America.
>>>
>>> I've only ever come across "rowlock".
>>>
>>
>> To me (BrE), too, "rowlock" is the only term I've met, up to now.
>
> Ditto.
>
for decades, I don't think I've ever heard of "oarlock". I guess I
haven't watched enough rowing stuff.
Skitt
Sep 12, 2011, 9:23:19 PM9/12/11
to
annily wrote:
> Peter Duncanson (BrE) wrote:
> Peter Duncanson (BrE) wrote:
>> Katy Jennison wrote:
>>> Leslie Danks wrote:
>>>> Skitt wrote:
>>>>> James Silverton wrote:
>>>>>> Reading Anne Perry's "Acceptable Loss", I was a little surprised
>>>>>> by her use of "oarlock" instead of "rowlock' for an oar holder
>>>>>> on a boat. It was obvious what was meant but I can't recall seeing
>>>>>> the word before.
>>>>>> The OED says "oarlock" is "now chiefly N. American" but Perry is a
>>>>>> New Zealander, is she not?
>>>>>
>>>>> Hmm. Yes, "oarlock" is the word I'm familiar with here in North
>>>>> America.
>>>>
>>>> I've only ever come across "rowlock".
>>>
>>> To me (BrE), too, "rowlock" is the only term I've met, up to now.
>>
>> Ditto.
>
> Likewise for me (AusE). Despite being exposed to AmE via TV and movies
> for decades, I don't think I've ever heard of "oarlock". I guess I
> haven't watched enough rowing stuff.
Watch? Didn't you ever row a boat?
>>> Leslie Danks wrote:
>>>> Skitt wrote:
>>>>> James Silverton wrote:
>>>>>> Reading Anne Perry's "Acceptable Loss", I was a little surprised
>>>>>> by her use of "oarlock" instead of "rowlock' for an oar holder
>>>>>> on a boat. It was obvious what was meant but I can't recall seeing
>>>>>> the word before.
>>>>>> The OED says "oarlock" is "now chiefly N. American" but Perry is a
>>>>>> New Zealander, is she not?
>>>>>
>>>>> Hmm. Yes, "oarlock" is the word I'm familiar with here in North
>>>>> America.
>>>>
>>>> I've only ever come across "rowlock".
>>>
>>> To me (BrE), too, "rowlock" is the only term I've met, up to now.
>>
>> Ditto.
>
> Likewise for me (AusE). Despite being exposed to AmE via TV and movies
> for decades, I don't think I've ever heard of "oarlock". I guess I
> haven't watched enough rowing stuff.
Glenn Knickerbocker
Sep 12, 2011, 11:16:28 PM9/12/11
to
On Mon, 12 Sep 2011 12:33:47 -0400, micky wrote:
>Do you mean the town or the rive?. If the river,
Funny, it never occurred to me before that a river was something that
>Do you mean the town or the rive?. If the river,
rives. That's not the derivation, but M-W does suggest they're traceable
back to the same root through different languages.
"It's not the size of the boat, it's Matt McIrvin" -- Joe
ŹR / http://users.bestweb.net/~notr/ny2001.html / Manfre
Steve Hayes
Sep 13, 2011, 12:15:52 AM9/13/11
to
On Tue, 13 Sep 2011 08:29:38 +1000, Peter Moylan
<inv...@peter.pmoylan.org.invalid> wrote:
>musika wrote:
>> Are you suggesting that a warlock locks wars?
>
>Close. He locks wards.
Got a source for that?
Most of the books that I've read that use it say or imply that he breaks
oaths.
I looked it up on Wikipedia, where there is a rather unsatisfactory article.
Reliable information seems to be hard to come by.
--
Steve Hayes from Tshwane, South Africa
Web: http://hayesfam.bravehost.com/stevesig.htm
Blog: http://methodius.blogspot.com
E-mail - see web page, or parse: shayes at dunelm full stop org full stop uk
<inv...@peter.pmoylan.org.invalid> wrote:
>musika wrote:
>> Are you suggesting that a warlock locks wars?
>
>Close. He locks wards.
Most of the books that I've read that use it say or imply that he breaks
oaths.
I looked it up on Wikipedia, where there is a rather unsatisfactory article.
Reliable information seems to be hard to come by.
--
Steve Hayes from Tshwane, South Africa
Web: http://hayesfam.bravehost.com/stevesig.htm
Blog: http://methodius.blogspot.com
E-mail - see web page, or parse: shayes at dunelm full stop org full stop uk
Mark Brader
Sep 13, 2011, 1:34:09 AM9/13/11
to
Jerry Friedman:
--
Mark Brader, Toronto, m...@vex.net
Irving Thalberg's advice on GONE WITH THE WIND:
"Forget it, Louis. No Civil War picture ever made a nickel."
> That's accurate. Not even "more or less" as far as I'm concerned.
> There once was a person from Porlock...
Who let himself in by the door lock...
> There once was a person from Porlock...
--
Mark Brader, Toronto, m...@vex.net
Irving Thalberg's advice on GONE WITH THE WIND:
"Forget it, Louis. No Civil War picture ever made a nickel."
annily
Sep 13, 2011, 3:44:35 AM9/13/11
to
American. My only exposure to American usage is via TV and movies, and
AFAIK, I've never heard the term via those media.
--
Long-time resident of Adelaide, South Australia,
which probably influences my opinions.
annily
Sep 13, 2011, 3:48:27 AM9/13/11
to
There are of course, other means of exposure, including this newsgroup.
Vinny Burgoo
Sep 13, 2011, 6:51:13 AM9/13/11
to
In alt.usage.english, Mark Brader wrote:
>Jerry Friedman:
>> That's accurate. Not even "more or less" as far as I'm concerned.
>> There once was a person from Porlock...
>
>Who let himself in by the door lock...
'Coleridge!' said he
>Jerry Friedman:
>> That's accurate. Not even "more or less" as far as I'm concerned.
>> There once was a person from Porlock...
>
>Who let himself in by the door lock...
'I've come for me tea.'
(It could have been worse. Samuel Taylor Cholericke, a lesser known
contemporary, had an entire poem stolen by an albatross.)
--
VB
Amethyst Deceiver
Sep 13, 2011, 8:01:45 AM9/13/11
to
On Sep 12, 8:56 pm, Katy Jennison <k...@spamtrap.kjennison.com> wrote:
> To me (BrE), too, "rowlock" is the only term I've met, up to now.
>
> I wonder, though, how "oarlock" is pronounced. ... Ah, having writen
> that, it occurred to me to check it on the admirable "Howjsay" website.
> If that's accurate, it's more or less like "warlock" without the w. I
> had been wondering if it actually sounded anything like the BrE
> pronunciation of "rowlock", which is not "roe-lock" but "roll@ck" (to
> rhyme roughly with "bollock"). But it doesn't.
>
> However, maybe Howjsay isn't as admirable as I thought, because I've
> just checked its offering for "rowlock" and it gives an unmistakable
> "roe-lock". So either it's unreliable, and therefore may not have got
> "oarlock" right either, or perhaps "rowlock" is pronounced differently
> these days, by Brits younger than I (of which there are millions).
I am slightly younger than you, and I say roll@ck, and the OED agrees
> To me (BrE), too, "rowlock" is the only term I've met, up to now.
>
> I wonder, though, how "oarlock" is pronounced. ... Ah, having writen
> that, it occurred to me to check it on the admirable "Howjsay" website.
> If that's accurate, it's more or less like "warlock" without the w. I
> had been wondering if it actually sounded anything like the BrE
> pronunciation of "rowlock", which is not "roe-lock" but "roll@ck" (to
> rhyme roughly with "bollock"). But it doesn't.
>
> However, maybe Howjsay isn't as admirable as I thought, because I've
> just checked its offering for "rowlock" and it gives an unmistakable
> "roe-lock". So either it's unreliable, and therefore may not have got
> "oarlock" right either, or perhaps "rowlock" is pronounced differently
> these days, by Brits younger than I (of which there are millions).
so I'm happy!
Linz
CDB
Sep 13, 2011, 8:13:35 AM9/13/11
to
>>
'Tis no time to seize rhyme by the forelock. Caffeinate me, or watch
me turn Morlock. <recessive accent> 'Er indoors 'as sequestered me
'orlick.
>>
I've gone for me 'at.
Mark Brader
Sep 13, 2011, 9:12:45 AM9/13/11
to
C.D. Bellemar:
> ...Caffeinate me, or watch me turn Morlock...
Thank you! That was the rhyme I was hoping someone would use.
--
Mark Brader, Toronto | "So *you* say." --Toddy Beamish
m...@vex.net | (H.G. Wells, "The Man Who Could Work Miracles")
> ...Caffeinate me, or watch me turn Morlock...
Thank you! That was the rhyme I was hoping someone would use.
--
Mark Brader, Toronto | "So *you* say." --Toddy Beamish
m...@vex.net | (H.G. Wells, "The Man Who Could Work Miracles")
CDB
Sep 13, 2011, 10:51:40 AM9/13/11
to
Mark Brader wrote:
> C.D. Bellemar:
>> ...Caffeinate me, or watch me turn Morlock...
>
> Thank you! That was the rhyme I was hoping someone would use.
>>
"Have you, Moore, locks in that basket?" "Yes," he replied, blanching
> C.D. Bellemar:
>> ...Caffeinate me, or watch me turn Morlock...
>
> Thank you! That was the rhyme I was hoping someone would use.
>>
horrifically, and we cut and ran without further adieu.
R H Draney
Sep 13, 2011, 12:47:53 PM9/13/11
to
CDB filted:
On the hunt, doubtless, for bagels and some cream cheese to go with it....r
--
Me? Sarcastic?
Yeah, right.
--
Me? Sarcastic?
Yeah, right.
Mike Lyle
Sep 13, 2011, 4:36:05 PM9/13/11
to
advance on thole pins, which merely stick up from the gunwale; and
that modern racing boats with outriggers have "gates", which really do
lock the oar in place. (No, not the kind of outrigger that stabilizes
a boat, though Paralympian scullers may have both.)
--
Mike.
Mike Lyle
Sep 13, 2011, 5:29:57 PM9/13/11
to
On 13 Sep 2011 09:47:53 -0700, R H Draney <dado...@spamcop.net>
wrote:
"I'll go," said he, touching his forelock,
"and try breaking the store lock."
--
Mike.
wrote:
"and try breaking the store lock."
--
Mike.
Evan Kirshenbaum
Sep 13, 2011, 11:20:10 PM9/13/11
to
Steve Hayes <haye...@telkomsa.net> writes:
> On Tue, 13 Sep 2011 08:29:38 +1000, Peter Moylan
> <inv...@peter.pmoylan.org.invalid> wrote:
>
>>musika wrote:
>
>>> Are you suggesting that a warlock locks wars?
>>
>>Close. He locks wards.
>
> Got a source for that?
>
> Most of the books that I've read that use it say or imply that he breaks
> oaths.
>
> I looked it up on Wikipedia, where there is a rather unsatisfactory
> article.
>
> Reliable information seems to be hard to come by.
The OED derives it from Old English "w�r-loga" (traitor, enemy, devil,
etc.). "W�r" is "true", and "loga" is an agent related to "l�ogan"
(lie, belie, deny). The oldest sense is "oath breaker".
--
Evan Kirshenbaum +------------------------------------
Still with HP Labs |If I am ever forced to make a
SF Bay Area (1982-) |choice between learning and using
Chicago (1964-1982) |win32, or leaving the computer
|industry, let me just say it was
evan.kir...@gmail.com |nice knowing all of you. :-)
| Randal Schwartz
http://www.kirshenbaum.net/
Robert Bannister
Sep 14, 2011, 2:34:25 AM9/14/11
to
On 13/09/11 3:56 AM, Katy Jennison wrote:
> On 12/09/2011 18:39, Leslie Danks wrote:
>> Skitt wrote:
>>
>>> James Silverton wrote:
>>>
>>>> Reading Anne Perry's "Acceptable Loss", I was a little surprised by her
>>>> use of "oarlock" instead of "rowlock' for an oar holder on a boat. It
>>>> was obvious what was meant but I can't recall seeing the word before.
>>>> The OED says "oarlock" is "now chiefly N. American" but Perry is a New
>>>> Zealander, is she not?
>>>
>>> Hmm. Yes, "oarlock" is the word I'm familiar with here in North
>>> America.
>>
>> I've only ever come across "rowlock".
>>
>
> To me (BrE), too, "rowlock" is the only term I've met, up to now.
>
> I wonder, though, how "oarlock" is pronounced. ... Ah, having writen
> that, it occurred to me to check it on the admirable "Howjsay" website.
> If that's accurate, it's more or less like "warlock" without the w.
I'd have thought it was more like "whore lock" without the h.
> On 12/09/2011 18:39, Leslie Danks wrote:
>> Skitt wrote:
>>
>>> James Silverton wrote:
>>>
>>>> Reading Anne Perry's "Acceptable Loss", I was a little surprised by her
>>>> use of "oarlock" instead of "rowlock' for an oar holder on a boat. It
>>>> was obvious what was meant but I can't recall seeing the word before.
>>>> The OED says "oarlock" is "now chiefly N. American" but Perry is a New
>>>> Zealander, is she not?
>>>
>>> Hmm. Yes, "oarlock" is the word I'm familiar with here in North
>>> America.
>>
>> I've only ever come across "rowlock".
>>
>
> To me (BrE), too, "rowlock" is the only term I've met, up to now.
>
> I wonder, though, how "oarlock" is pronounced. ... Ah, having writen
> that, it occurred to me to check it on the admirable "Howjsay" website.
> If that's accurate, it's more or less like "warlock" without the w.
I
> had been wondering if it actually sounded anything like the BrE
> pronunciation of "rowlock", which is not "roe-lock" but "roll@ck" (to
> rhyme roughly with "bollock"). But it doesn't.
>
> However, maybe Howjsay isn't as admirable as I thought, because I've
> just checked its offering for "rowlock" and it gives an unmistakable
> "roe-lock". So either it's unreliable, and therefore may not have got
> "oarlock" right either, or perhaps "rowlock" is pronounced differently
> these days, by Brits younger than I (of which there are millions).
>
--
Robert Bannister
Steve Hayes
Sep 14, 2011, 1:53:40 PM9/14/11
to
On Tue, 13 Sep 2011 20:20:10 -0700, Evan Kirshenbaum
<evan.kir...@gmail.com> wrote:
>Steve Hayes <haye...@telkomsa.net> writes:
>
>> On Tue, 13 Sep 2011 08:29:38 +1000, Peter Moylan
>> <inv...@peter.pmoylan.org.invalid> wrote:
>>
>>>musika wrote:
>>
>>>> Are you suggesting that a warlock locks wars?
>>>
>>>Close. He locks wards.
>>
>> Got a source for that?
>>
>> Most of the books that I've read that use it say or imply that he breaks
>> oaths.
>>
>> I looked it up on Wikipedia, where there is a rather unsatisfactory
>> article.
>>
>> Reliable information seems to be hard to come by.
>
>The OED derives it from Old English "wær-loga" (traitor, enemy, devil,
<evan.kir...@gmail.com> wrote:
>Steve Hayes <haye...@telkomsa.net> writes:
>
>> On Tue, 13 Sep 2011 08:29:38 +1000, Peter Moylan
>> <inv...@peter.pmoylan.org.invalid> wrote:
>>
>>>musika wrote:
>>
>>>> Are you suggesting that a warlock locks wars?
>>>
>>>Close. He locks wards.
>>
>> Got a source for that?
>>
>> Most of the books that I've read that use it say or imply that he breaks
>> oaths.
>>
>> I looked it up on Wikipedia, where there is a rather unsatisfactory
>> article.
>>
>> Reliable information seems to be hard to come by.
>
>etc.). "Wær" is "true", and "loga" is an agent related to "léogan"
>(lie, belie, deny). The oldest sense is "oath breaker".
So I'm wondering where locking wards comes into it.
Peter Moylan
Sep 15, 2011, 9:07:11 AM9/15/11
to
Steve Hayes wrote:
> On Tue, 13 Sep 2011 20:20:10 -0700, Evan Kirshenbaum
> <evan.kir...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Steve Hayes <haye...@telkomsa.net> writes:
>>
>>> On Tue, 13 Sep 2011 08:29:38 +1000, Peter Moylan
>>> <inv...@peter.pmoylan.org.invalid> wrote:
>>>
>>>> musika wrote:
>>>>> Are you suggesting that a warlock locks wars?
>>>> Close. He locks wards.
>>> Got a source for that?
>>>
>>> Most of the books that I've read that use it say or imply that he breaks
>>> oaths.
>>>
>>> I looked it up on Wikipedia, where there is a rather unsatisfactory
>>> article.
>>>
>>> Reliable information seems to be hard to come by.
>> The OED derives it from Old English "wær-loga" (traitor, enemy, devil,
>> etc.). "Wær" is "true", and "loga" is an agent related to "léogan"
>> (lie, belie, deny). The oldest sense is "oath breaker".
>
> So I'm wondering where locking wards comes into it.
Don't look at me. I was dragging it out of that grab-bag of information
> On Tue, 13 Sep 2011 20:20:10 -0700, Evan Kirshenbaum
> <evan.kir...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Steve Hayes <haye...@telkomsa.net> writes:
>>
>>> On Tue, 13 Sep 2011 08:29:38 +1000, Peter Moylan
>>> <inv...@peter.pmoylan.org.invalid> wrote:
>>>
>>>> musika wrote:
>>>>> Are you suggesting that a warlock locks wars?
>>>> Close. He locks wards.
>>> Got a source for that?
>>>
>>> Most of the books that I've read that use it say or imply that he breaks
>>> oaths.
>>>
>>> I looked it up on Wikipedia, where there is a rather unsatisfactory
>>> article.
>>>
>>> Reliable information seems to be hard to come by.
>> The OED derives it from Old English "wær-loga" (traitor, enemy, devil,
>> etc.). "Wær" is "true", and "loga" is an agent related to "léogan"
>> (lie, belie, deny). The oldest sense is "oath breaker".
>
> So I'm wondering where locking wards comes into it.
called my memory. I supposed I should have looked it up before opening
my mouth.
Katy Jennison
Sep 15, 2011, 10:18:05 AM9/15/11
to
questioners were being Whooshed.
--
Katy Jennison
Peter Duncanson (BrE)
Sep 15, 2011, 11:44:14 AM9/15/11
to
I've trying to work out how to guide the conversation toward Ward Lock.
--
Peter Duncanson, UK
(in alt.usage.english)
Steve Hayes
Sep 15, 2011, 12:00:37 PM9/15/11
to
On Thu, 15 Sep 2011 23:07:11 +1000, Peter Moylan
<inv...@peter.pmoylan.org.invalid> wrote:
>Steve Hayes wrote:
>> So I'm wondering where locking wards comes into it.
>
>Don't look at me. I was dragging it out of that grab-bag of information
>called my memory. I supposed I should have looked it up before opening
>my mouth.
Ah well, happens to all of us.
<inv...@peter.pmoylan.org.invalid> wrote:
>Steve Hayes wrote:
>> So I'm wondering where locking wards comes into it.
>
>Don't look at me. I was dragging it out of that grab-bag of information
>called my memory. I supposed I should have looked it up before opening
>my mouth.
Adam Funk
Sep 15, 2011, 11:53:01 AM9/15/11
to
On 2011-09-14, Steve Hayes wrote:
> On Tue, 13 Sep 2011 20:20:10 -0700, Evan Kirshenbaum
><evan.kir...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>The OED derives it from Old English "wær-loga" (traitor, enemy, devil,
>>etc.). "Wær" is "true", and "loga" is an agent related to "léogan"
>>(lie, belie, deny). The oldest sense is "oath breaker".
(I'm pretty sure that "wær" is cognate with German "wahr" and Latin
"verus".)
> So I'm wondering where locking wards comes into it.
Well, ISTR a spell in D&D called "wizard lock"...
--
Physics is like sex. Sure, it may give some practical results,
but that's not why we do it. [Richard Feynman]
Steve Hayes
Sep 15, 2011, 12:25:29 PM9/15/11
to
>And there was I thinking you were making a play on words, and the
>questioners were being Whooshed.
Do you do wards?
>questioners were being Whooshed.
Katy Jennison
Sep 15, 2011, 1:15:42 PM9/15/11
to
On 15/09/2011 17:25, Steve Hayes wrote:
> On Thu, 15 Sep 2011 15:18:05 +0100, Katy Jennison
> <ka...@spamtrap.kjennison.com> wrote:
>
>> And there was I thinking you were making a play on words, and the
>> questioners were being Whooshed.
>
> Do you do wards?
There might be a war dress in my locker.
> On Thu, 15 Sep 2011 15:18:05 +0100, Katy Jennison
> <ka...@spamtrap.kjennison.com> wrote:
>
>> And there was I thinking you were making a play on words, and the
>> questioners were being Whooshed.
>
> Do you do wards?
--
Katy Jennison
Mike Lyle
Sep 15, 2011, 4:24:49 PM9/15/11
to
On Thu, 15 Sep 2011 18:15:42 +0100, Katy Jennison
--
Mike.
<ka...@spamtrap.kjennison.com> wrote:
>On 15/09/2011 17:25, Steve Hayes wrote:
>> On Thu, 15 Sep 2011 15:18:05 +0100, Katy Jennison
>> <ka...@spamtrap.kjennison.com> wrote:
>>
>>> And there was I thinking you were making a play on words, and the
>>> questioners were being Whooshed.
>>
>> Do you do wards?
>
>There might be a war dress in my locker.
I know a very nice policewoman: is that near enough?
>On 15/09/2011 17:25, Steve Hayes wrote:
>> On Thu, 15 Sep 2011 15:18:05 +0100, Katy Jennison
>> <ka...@spamtrap.kjennison.com> wrote:
>>
>>> And there was I thinking you were making a play on words, and the
>>> questioners were being Whooshed.
>>
>> Do you do wards?
>
>There might be a war dress in my locker.
--
Mike.
Robert Bannister
Sep 15, 2011, 9:01:28 PM9/15/11
to
confined to prisons.
--
Robert Bannister
Adam Funk
Sep 18, 2011, 4:30:27 PM9/18/11
to
--
Bob just used 'canonical' in the canonical way. [Guy Steele]
Robert Bannister
Sep 18, 2011, 10:31:44 PM9/18/11
to
On 19/09/11 4:30 AM, Adam Funk wrote:
> On 2011-09-16, Robert Bannister wrote:
>
>> On 16/09/11 1:15 AM, Katy Jennison wrote:
>>> On 15/09/2011 17:25, Steve Hayes wrote:
>>>> On Thu, 15 Sep 2011 15:18:05 +0100, Katy Jennison
>>>> <ka...@spamtrap.kjennison.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> And there was I thinking you were making a play on words, and the
>>>>> questioners were being Whooshed.
>>>>
>>>> Do you do wards?
>>>
>>> There might be a war dress in my locker.
>>
>> Heavens! I used to have a battledress, but I thought war dresses were
>> confined to prisons.
>
> What kind of SCA were you in? ;-)
>
>
Sydney College of Arts?> On 2011-09-16, Robert Bannister wrote:
>
>> On 16/09/11 1:15 AM, Katy Jennison wrote:
>>> On 15/09/2011 17:25, Steve Hayes wrote:
>>>> On Thu, 15 Sep 2011 15:18:05 +0100, Katy Jennison
>>>> <ka...@spamtrap.kjennison.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> And there was I thinking you were making a play on words, and the
>>>>> questioners were being Whooshed.
>>>>
>>>> Do you do wards?
>>>
>>> There might be a war dress in my locker.
>>
>> Heavens! I used to have a battledress, but I thought war dresses were
>> confined to prisons.
>
> What kind of SCA were you in? ;-)
>
>
Society for Creative Anachronism?
Svenska Cellulosa Aktiebolaget?
The only other explanation was Society of Crystallographers in Australia
and New Zealand, but I thought this less likely.
--
Robert Bannister
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