"whose job it is to oversee..."
DJ
I'm wondering if the "it" in the following sentence is an error?
"At school they have "scarecrow monitors" whose job _it_ is to oversee
the filling of more buckets from under the drinking taps to water the
school vegetable patch."
Source:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/asia-pacific/7361210.stm
Thanks,
--
DJ
Sara Lorimer
Nope, it's fine. If it just said "whose job is to oversee the
filling..." then that would be limiting their job to just the one thing.
--
SML
Mark Brader
> "At school they have "scarecrow monitors" whose job _it_ is to oversee
> the filling of more buckets from under the drinking taps to water the
> school vegetable patch."
The "it" is a dummy subject, as the same in "It is their job to oversee
the bucket-filling."
--
Mark Brader, Toronto Don't put all your X in one window.
m...@vex.net -- Peter Neumann
DJ
.....
> Nope, it's fine. If it just said "whose job is to oversee the
> filling..." then that would be limiting their job to just the one thing.
>
Thanks!
Mark Brader wrote:
> D.J. asks about:
>> "At school they have "scarecrow monitors" whose job _it_ is to oversee
>> the filling of more buckets from under the drinking taps to water the
>> school vegetable patch."
>
> The "it" is a dummy subject, as the same in "It is their job to oversee
> the bucket-filling."
Thank you for the explanation. What I don't get is why put a dummy
subject there while the real one is already present. Sara explained the
usage (that I wasn't aware of) and I'm OK with that.
--
DJ
Martin Ambuhl
> Hi,
>
> I'm wondering if the "it" in the following sentence is an error?
>
> "At school they have "scarecrow monitors" whose job _it_ is to oversee
> the filling of more buckets from under the drinking taps to water the
> school vegetable patch."
I'm at a loss to understand what you might think the problem is. Could
you explain why you think "it" is an error?
DJ
Well, since Sara explained the usage, so now I know. Before that, I'd
never encountered this kind of usage and I was at a lost because if "...
whose job is to (do something)" was the intended meaning, then why put
an "it" there? (To me, it was like saying "The object it is to do
something..." )
--
DJ
Steve Hayes
>Hi,
>
>I'm wondering if the "it" in the following sentence is an error?
>
>"At school they have "scarecrow monitors" whose job _it_ is to oversee
>the filling of more buckets from under the drinking taps to water the
>school vegetable patch."
No, it's not an error.
It means tha tthey are responsible for doing it, which could also be expressed
as "whose responsibility it is".
--
Steve Hayes from Tshwane, South Africa
Web: http://hayesfam.bravehost.com/stevesig.htm
Blog: http://methodius.blogspot.com
E-mail - see web page, or parse: shayes at dunelm full stop org full stop uk
Ian Noble
I think Sarah has captured it. "Job" here has the sense of a
particular responsibility or task, rather than a complete role (which,
here, is "scarecrow monitor") . Without the "it" that sense would
disappear.
You could turn the sentence on its head, and ask, colloquially,
"Whose job is it to oversee the filling of buckets?"
Cheers - Ian
DJ
....
>
> I think Sarah has captured it. "Job" here has the sense of a
> particular responsibility or task, rather than a complete role (which,
> here, is "scarecrow monitor") . Without the "it" that sense would
> disappear.
>
> You could turn the sentence on its head, and ask, colloquially,
> "Whose job is it to oversee the filling of buckets?"
>
> Cheers - Ian
Ah ha! I think I got the gist of it. My morning coffee helps too, I
guess. Now I just need more practice to really settle it down in my brain.
Thank you all!
--
DJ
irwell
In my early school days the ink monitor filled the ink
wells, handed out blotting paper and new pen nibs.
DJ
> In my early school days the ink monitor filled the ink
> wells, handed out blotting paper and new pen nibs.
Interesting information. I thought the only "monitor" was "hall
monitor", so there're more to it.
I was sort of a "chalk monitor" back in college.
--
DJ
Wood Avens
In my (UK) primary school "x monitor" was the term for "pupil in
charge of x". So IIRC we had a blackboard monitor, who cleaned it
before the next lesson, a register monitor who carried the register up
the the staff room after our teacher had taken it*, a door monitor who
opened the door for a teacher to come in or go out, monitors in charge
of giving out or collecting up items of equipment or text books, and
so on and so forth.
*BrE "Taking the register" = reading out the name of each pupil in
turn and ticking a box if they reply. Replies take a prescribed form,
which in our case was "Yes, Mr Rhodes". In other places they said
things like "Present" or "Here".
--
Katy Jennison
spamtrap: remove the first two letters after the @
DJ
> On Thu, 24 Apr 2008 11:03:59 -0400, DJ <n...@nospam.no> wrote:
>
>> irwell wrote:
>>> On Thu, 24 Apr 2008 07:46:34 +0100, Ian Noble
>>> <fr...@dropthis.clara.co.uk> wrote:
>> ...
>>> In my early school days the ink monitor filled the ink
>>> wells, handed out blotting paper and new pen nibs.
>> Interesting information. I thought the only "monitor" was "hall
>> monitor", so there're more to it.
>>
>> I was sort of a "chalk monitor" back in college.
>
> *BrE "Taking the register" = reading out the name of each pupil in
I was about to ask this!
> turn and ticking a box if they reply. Replies take a prescribed form,
> which in our case was "Yes, Mr Rhodes". In other places they said
Is it possible to say "Yes, teacher"? I was watching "South Park" last
night and one little kid addressed his teacher to his parter as "Teacher
said ...." in stead of the usual "Mr. Garrison said ...." or "Our
teacher said ....", so it got me thinking ....
> In my (UK) primary school "x monitor" was the term for "pupil in
> charge of x". So IIRC we had a blackboard monitor, who cleaned it
> before the next lesson, a register monitor who carried the register up
> the the staff room after our teacher had taken it*, a door monitor who
> opened the door for a teacher to come in or go out, monitors in charge
> of giving out or collecting up items of equipment or text books, and
> so on and so forth.
>
I wonder if this naming fashion is still current, if it is, then next
time someone (in Taiwan) asks a translation of a similar student role, I
can just borrow this and answer it.
--
DJ
Peter Duncanson (BrE)
<wood...@askjennison.com> wrote:
>On Thu, 24 Apr 2008 11:03:59 -0400, DJ <n...@nospam.no> wrote:
>
>>irwell wrote:
>>> On Thu, 24 Apr 2008 07:46:34 +0100, Ian Noble
>>> <fr...@dropthis.clara.co.uk> wrote:
>>...
>>> In my early school days the ink monitor filled the ink
>>> wells, handed out blotting paper and new pen nibs.
>>
>>Interesting information. I thought the only "monitor" was "hall
>>monitor", so there're more to it.
>>
>>I was sort of a "chalk monitor" back in college.
>
>In my (UK) primary school "x monitor" was the term for "pupil in
>charge of x". So IIRC we had a blackboard monitor, who cleaned it
>before the next lesson, a register monitor who carried the register up
>the the staff room after our teacher had taken it*, a door monitor who
>opened the door for a teacher to come in or go out, monitors in charge
>of giving out or collecting up items of equipment or text books, and
>so on and so forth.
>
There were "milk monitors" who distributed free milk to the
pupils: one third of a British pint per person in a glass
bottle.
>*BrE "Taking the register" = reading out the name of each pupil in
>turn and ticking a box if they reply. Replies take a prescribed form,
>which in our case was "Yes, Mr Rhodes". In other places they said
>things like "Present" or "Here".
I think some classically minded schools expected "Adsum".
--
Peter Duncanson, UK
(in alt.usage.english)
jerry_f...@yahoo.com
> On Thu, 24 Apr 2008 11:03:59 -0400, DJ <n...@nospam.no> wrote:
> >irwell wrote:
> >> On Thu, 24 Apr 2008 07:46:34 +0100, Ian Noble
> >> <fr...@dropthis.clara.co.uk> wrote:
> >...
> >> In my early school days the ink monitor filled the ink
> >> wells, handed out blotting paper and new pen nibs.
>
> >Interesting information. I thought the only "monitor" was "hall
> >monitor", so there're more to it.
>
> >I was sort of a "chalk monitor" back in college.
>
> In my (UK) primary school "x monitor" was the term for "pupil in
> charge of x".
=AmE "teacher's pet" (NME /lambe/)
> So IIRC we had a blackboard monitor, who cleaned it before the next lesson,
That was a punishment.
> a register monitor who carried the register up
> the the staff room after our teacher had taken it*,
I think that happens in some American schools, though I don't remember
it in mine.
> a door monitor who
> opened the door for a teacher to come in or go out,
Good heavens!
> monitors in charge
> of giving out or collecting up items of equipment or text books,
Anything our grubby paws could go on was passed around, handed out or
picked up by the teacher, or handed in at the teacher's desk.
> and so on and so forth.
>
> *BrE "Taking the register" = reading out the name of each pupil in
> turn and ticking a box if they reply.
=AmE "taking attendance", "taking (the) roll", "calling (the) roll",
and probably others.
> Replies take a prescribed form,
> which in our case was "Yes, Mr Rhodes". In other places they said
> things like "Present" or "Here".
We mostly said "here" or "present". The height of wit was to say
"president". A little later, the height of cool was to say "yo".
--
Jerry Friedman
Barbara Bailey
news:c699ebb4-2387-409d...@j22g2000hsf.googlegroups.com:
> On Apr 24, 10:31 am, Wood Avens <woodav...@askjennison.com> wrote:
>> On Thu, 24 Apr 2008 11:03:59 -0400, DJ <n...@nospam.no> wrote:
>> >irwell wrote:
>> >> On Thu, 24 Apr 2008 07:46:34 +0100, Ian Noble
>> >> <fr...@dropthis.clara.co.uk> wrote:
>> >...
>> >> In my early school days the ink monitor filled the ink
>> >> wells, handed out blotting paper and new pen nibs.
>>
>> >Interesting information. I thought the only "monitor" was "hall
>> >monitor", so there're more to it.
>>
>> >I was sort of a "chalk monitor" back in college.
>>
>> In my (UK) primary school "x monitor" was the term for "pupil in
>> charge of x".
>
> =AmE "teacher's pet" (NME /lambe/)
Not necessarily. While a monitor -could- also be a teacher's pet, a
"teacher's pet" was a child who was clearly the tacher's favorite; they
were called on more often when they did raise their hand, but they
wouldn't be called on if they didn't (unlike other students, who the
teacher might call on for an answer just to see if they were paying
attention, or, knowing that they weren't, to embarrass them.) The
teacher's pet was presumed to get more leeway before punishment for
misbehavior, less punishment for the same misbehavior, and more praise
for good behavior then the other children.
One monitor job that was virtually never given to the teacher's pet was
classroom monitor -- the poor kid who was told to try to keep order while
the teacher stepped out for a few minutes, and was expected to report on
the rest of their classmate's behavior when the teacher returned.
tony cooper
>> >I was sort of a "chalk monitor" back in college.
>>
>> In my (UK) primary school "x monitor" was the term for "pupil in
>> charge of x".
>
>=AmE "teacher's pet" (NME /lambe/)
>
>> So IIRC we had a blackboard monitor, who cleaned it before the next lesson,
>
>That was a punishment.
"Ink monitor" was not a punishment. I *longed* to be appointed ink
monitor and to be able to walk around the classroom and fill up the
inkwells at each desk...to at least be able to stand for a few moments
in close proximity to "that cute girl" of the year...to be noticed for
something other than the one who wasn't prepared when called on.
My punishment was never being assigned as ink monitor.
I'm not at all sure we called the function "ink monitor", but the
function was there.
--
Tony Cooper - Orlando, Florida
Mark Brader
> ... the poor kid who was told to try to keep order while
> the rest of their classmate's behavior when the teacher returned.
teacher stepped out? Rough school!
(Or if you prefer: Oy!)
--
Mark Brader | "If I quoted each [part] that had serious problems,
Toronto | [the author] could sue me for copyright infringement."
m...@vex.net | -- Steve Summit
irwell
Later in life at the Lazy 'L' used to get assigned as
Security Monitor for a few weeks at a time.
Distasteful type of assignment, having to make sure
all colleagues had a 'clean desk' and no classified
info had been left out.
R H Draney
Sounds like some of y'all's schools had more monitors than Sumatra....r
--
What good is being an executive if you never get to execute anyone?
Evan Kirshenbaum
> Is it possible to say "Yes, teacher"? I was watching "South Park"
> last night and one little kid addressed his teacher to his parter as
> "Teacher said ...." in stead of the usual "Mr. Garrison said ...."
> or "Our teacher said ....", so it got me thinking ....
It's somewhat uncommon, but not too bizarre. It has a vaguely British
feel to me. It's more often used with occupations that are also used
before people's names, such as "professor", "coach", "doctor", or
"senator". "Good morning, teacher" used to be the group response to
"Good morning, class", but I don't know if that's done anywhere these
days.
Although thinking about it, while all of them are fine in address,
such as "Yes, <X>?" or "Excuse me, <X>," I wouldn't say "Doctor said
..." or "Senator said ...", while "Professor said ..." is reasonable
and "Coach said ..." is common.
--
Evan Kirshenbaum +------------------------------------
HP Laboratories |"Algebra? But that's far too
1501 Page Mill Road, 1U, MS 1141 |difficult for seven-year-olds!"
Palo Alto, CA 94304 |
|"Yes, but I didn't tell them that
kirsh...@hpl.hp.com |and so far they haven't found out,"
(650)857-7572 |said Susan.
Skitt
> DJ wrote:
>> irwell wrote:
>>> Ian Noble wrote:
>>> In my early school days the ink monitor filled the ink
>>> wells, handed out blotting paper and new pen nibs.
>>
>> Interesting information. I thought the only "monitor" was "hall
>> monitor", so there're more to it.
>>
>> I was sort of a "chalk monitor" back in college.
>
> Later in life at the Lazy 'L' used to get assigned as
> Security Monitor for a few weeks at a time.
>
> Distasteful type of assignment, having to make sure
> all colleagues had a 'clean desk' and no classified
> info had been left out.
That, and all the security locks on the many desks, file cabinets, and doors
had to be checked (by yanking). There was a checksheet listing all
checkpoints, and it had to be signed upon completion of the rounds. This
was for a Closed Area and the associated office area, of course.
For a long time, most of my working life was in closed areas -- I had passes
to half a dozen of them.
--
Skitt (AmE)
John Holmes
> On Apr 24, 10:31 am, Wood Avens <woodav...@askjennison.com> wrote:
>>
>> In my (UK) primary school "x monitor" was the term for "pupil in
>> charge of x".
>
> =AmE "teacher's pet" (NME /lambe/)
Not really. It was often a way of boosting a shy kid's confidence by
making them feel more important. Or of channeling the energy of a
hyperactive kid in a useful direction.
[...]
>>
>> *BrE "Taking the register" = reading out the name of each pupil in
>> turn and ticking a box if they reply.
>
> =AmE "taking attendance", "taking (the) roll", "calling (the) roll",
> and probably others.
"Marking the roll" here. Most schools now do it on computer, so there's
an instant record in the office of which students are in the school. I
think that's a requirement in case of emergencies and evacuations.
--
Regards
John
for mail: my initials plus a u e
at tpg dot com dot au
Barbara Bailey
news:B6ydnVG1e4xxnYzV...@vex.net:
> Barbara Bailey writes about:
>> ... the poor kid who was told to try to keep order while
>> the teacher stepped out for a few minutes, and was expected to report
>> on the rest of their classmate's behavior when the teacher returned.
>
> They only had one classmate, who had already been dismembered when the
> teacher stepped out? Rough school!
>
> (Or if you prefer: Oy!)
Y'know, I tried that sentence several different ways, knowing that I was
going to get Oy!'d for for it, one way or another...
Skitt
> (Mark Brader) wrote:
>> Barbara Bailey writes about:
>>> ... the poor kid who was told to try to keep order while
>>> the teacher stepped out for a few minutes, and was expected to
>>> report on the rest of their classmate's behavior when the teacher
>>> returned.
>>
>> They only had one classmate, who had already been dismembered when
>> the teacher stepped out? Rough school!
>>
>> (Or if you prefer: Oy!)
>
> Y'know, I tried that sentence several different ways, knowing that I
> was going to get Oy!'d for for it, one way or another...
Well, moving the apostrophe one notch to the right might be a start.
--
Skitt (AmE)
Mark Brader
> > Y'know, I tried that sentence several different ways, knowing that I
> > was going to get Oy!'d for for it, one way or another...
> Well, moving the apostrophe one notch to the right might be a start.
Which one, "yk'now" or "Oy!d'"? :-)
--
Mark Brader "Doing the wrong thing is worse than doing nothing."
Toronto "Doing *anything* is worse than doing nothing!"
m...@vex.net -- Lynn & Jay: YES, PRIME MINISTER
Amethyst Deceiver
wood...@askjennison.com says...
> On Thu, 24 Apr 2008 11:03:59 -0400, DJ <n...@nospam.no> wrote:
>
> >irwell wrote:
> >> On Thu, 24 Apr 2008 07:46:34 +0100, Ian Noble
> >> <fr...@dropthis.clara.co.uk> wrote:
> >...
> >> In my early school days the ink monitor filled the ink
> >> wells, handed out blotting paper and new pen nibs.
> >
> >Interesting information. I thought the only "monitor" was "hall
> >monitor", so there're more to it.
> >
> >I was sort of a "chalk monitor" back in college.
>
> In my (UK) primary school "x monitor" was the term for "pupil in
> charge of x". So IIRC we had a blackboard monitor, who cleaned it
> before the next lesson, a register monitor who carried the register up
> the the staff room after our teacher had taken it*, a door monitor who
> opened the door for a teacher to come in or go out, monitors in charge
> of giving out or collecting up items of equipment or text books, and
> so on and so forth.
I sometimes commute by train with a primary school teacher. She has 22
in her class and they are all monitors with their own area of
responsibility. When they go up to the next year, they come back and
teach the new class their jobs. Sometimes she has to be creative if
there are more pupils than usual - the blackboard monitor, the crayon
monitor, the mug monitor who washes teacher's mug, the dinner money
monitor, register monitor...
--
Linz
Wet Yorks via Cambridge, York, London and Watford
My accent may vary
Peter Duncanson (BrE)
<see...@instead.com> wrote:
>"Marking the roll" here. Most schools now do it on computer, so there's
>an instant record in the office of which students are in the school. I
>think that's a requirement in case of emergencies
Such as when the computer catches fire?
> and evacuations.
Mike Lyle
> DJ <n...@nospam.no> writes:
> > Is it possible to say "Yes, teacher"? I was watching "South Park"
> > last night and one little kid addressed his teacher to his parter as
> > "Teacher said ...." in stead of the usual "Mr. Garrison said ...."
> > or "Our teacher said ....", so it got me thinking ....
>
> It's somewhat uncommon, but not too bizarre. �It has a vaguely British
> feel to me.
No, it seems, like, so /totally/ unBritish to me. And, especially in
the elided form "Teach", it seems exclusively American: that must
come from films or some other source of misapprehension. Actually, I
remember two examples: one in which a young woman teacher was
addressed as "Teach" and jestingly replied to "Pupe", and another in
which Cary Grant was a professor and a thug called him "Teach".
>�It's more often used with occupations that are also used
> before people's names, such as "professor", "coach", "doctor", or
> "senator". �"Good morning, teacher" used to be the group response to
> "Good morning, class", but I don't know if that's done anywhere these
> days.
>
> Although thinking about it, while all of them are fine in address,
> such as "Yes, <X>?" �or "Excuse me, <X>," I wouldn't say "Doctor said
> ..." or "Senator said ...", while "Professor said ..." is reasonable
> and "Coach said ..." �is common.
I don't think any of the above is possible in BrE, other than "Doctor"
in the strictly limited (and now perhaps obsolete) use by a nurse when
talking to a patient: "We'll get Doctor to have a look at that". Cf
"Matron" and "Sister". We don't use "Coach" as an honorific prefix,
either; though some schools do have cricket or tennis pros, who /are/
often referred to and addressed as "Pro". Football coaching is
always(?) done by one of the masters, and by no means necessarily a PE
one.
--
Mike.
Pat Durkin
"Mike Lyle" <mike_l...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message
news:1d633ffc-d373-4eec...@c58g2000hsc.googlegroups.com...
I don't have much experience in courtrooms in the US, but during the OJ
Simpson trial, I was rather surprised to hear the judge addressed as
"Judge Ito", rather than "Your Honor". Since then, watching more
courtroom presentations on TV, I see that the honorific is lost almost
completely.
In ordinary conversation, of course, one addresses a judge as "Judge
Ito", outside the courtroom. Of course, in my book, I am dismayed at
the frequency with which these titles are used by newsmen to address
retired generals, judges, senators, and the like. Yes. Even
presidents. To me, the Constitution should hold, and, when these people
are no longer in office, the titles should be dropped in direct address.
But, then, where would we be if we could no longer go to "the Colonel's"
for chicken?
irwell
Why does the French eleve sound so much better than pupil?
There can be bien eleve, or mal-eleve, but no English equivalent.
CDB
[apple for the overseer]
> Why does the French eleve sound so much better than pupil?
> There can be bien eleve, or mal-eleve, but no English equivalent.
Around the ill-pupilled, the well-pupilled keep their eyes open.
Mal elve oh!
A la kot moun mal elve oh!
Mal elve oh!
A la kot moun mal elve oh!
Mal elve oh, mal elve oh,
Tout desan mor, yo te malonnčt oh!
Skitt
> Barbara Bailey:
>>> Y'know, I tried that sentence several different ways, knowing that I
>>> was going to get Oy!'d for for it, one way or another...
>
> "Skitt":
>> Well, moving the apostrophe one notch to the right might be a start.
>
> Which one, "yk'now" or "Oy!d'"? :-)
That's very droll -- ha, ha.
--
Skitt
Pat Durkin
Oh, I must comment here! My neighbor's kids occasionally bring their
DVDs to me to be played on my computer, since their regular player (for
their TV) does not work. Thus far, I have seen about 10 replays of
VeggieTales' Lord of the Beans, in which an Elvis impersonator doubles
as an elvish impersonator. Anyone here know the VeggieTales characters?
Larry the Cucumber was the one who got stripped of his phony ears. But
he did do a passable impersonation.
(On the screen the word "elves" appears, not "elvish"). Oh, yeah.
Legoland was the name of the member of the brotherhood.
R H Draney
>
>I sometimes commute by train with a primary school teacher. She has 22
>in her class and they are all monitors with their own area of
>responsibility. When they go up to the next year, they come back and
>teach the new class their jobs. Sometimes she has to be creative if
>there are more pupils than usual - the blackboard monitor, the crayon
>monitor, the mug monitor who washes teacher's mug, the dinner money
>monitor, register monitor...
I suppose in a computer lab you could even have a monitor monitor....
Or would that be a "monitissimus"?...r
Wood Avens
<mike_l...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>No, it seems, like, so /totally/ unBritish to me. And, especially in
>the elided form "Teach", it seems exclusively American: that must
>come from films or some other source of misapprehension.
It sounds thoroughly unBritish to me too, but wasn't the hapless
schoolmaster in The Bash Street Kids called "Teach"? Or am I thinking
of someone else?
R H Draney
>
>On Fri, 25 Apr 2008 07:20:47 -0700 (PDT), Mike Lyle
><mike_l...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>
>>No, it seems, like, so /totally/ unBritish to me. And, especially in
>>the elided form "Teach", it seems exclusively American: that must
>>come from films or some other source of misapprehension.
>
>It sounds thoroughly unBritish to me too, but wasn't the hapless
>schoolmaster in The Bash Street Kids called "Teach"? Or am I thinking
>of someone else?
Someone with a black beard, mayhap?...r
Maria C.
> Amethyst Deceiver filted:
>>
>> I sometimes commute by train with a primary school teacher. She has
>> 22 in her class and they are all monitors with their own area of
>> responsibility. When they go up to the next year, they come back and
>> teach the new class their jobs. Sometimes she has to be creative if
>> there are more pupils than usual - the blackboard monitor, the crayon
>> monitor, the mug monitor who washes teacher's mug, the dinner money
>> monitor, register monitor...
>
> I suppose in a computer lab you could even have a monitor monitor....
>
> Or would that be a "monitissimus"?...r
What is Imus doing in the computer lab?
--
Maria C.
Maria C.
>
> Although thinking about it, while all of them are fine in address,
> such as "Yes, <X>?" or "Excuse me, <X>," I wouldn't say "Doctor said
> ..." or "Senator said ...", while "Professor said ..." is reasonable
> and "Coach said ..." is common.
"Coach said" is common, I believe, because "Coach" is often a nickname
for him (or her, I suppose). I wouldn't have used it in my school days,
though -- I would have said "Coach [Last Name]." But then, I didn't have
a coach of any kind, not being involved in sports except as a spectator.
And coaches who taught regular classes would have been Mr., Mrs., or
Miss Whoever. The same goes for nuns (which I had for a few years in
grade school): they were, to me, "Sister Loretta" or "Sister Pius" or
Sister Whoever. Never just "Sister."
Other titles used as names sound wrong to me. "Doctor said" is a good
example of the such usage. It's as if someone is saying "God said."
(Doctors may like that.)
It dawns on me that I may have been an annoying little "kiss-up" in
school. I wouldn't have dreamed of being informal with any teacher.
(Neither would my parents have been informal. The same could be said of
most of my peers -- and my parents' peers -- back then.)
More informal these days,
Maria C.
Resident of southeast Michigan, near Detroit; native of east Tennessee.
Represented in the Senate by Senator Levin and Debbie-Do-Nothing.
R J Valentine
} On Apr 25, 12:46???am, Evan Kirshenbaum <kirshenb...@hpl.hp.com> wrote:
}> DJ <n...@nospam.no> writes:
}> > Is it possible to say "Yes, teacher"? I was watching "South Park"
}> > last night and one little kid addressed his teacher to his parter as
}> > "Teacher said ...." in stead of the usual "Mr. Garrison said ...."
}> > or "Our teacher said ....", so it got me thinking ....
}>
}> It's somewhat uncommon, but not too bizarre. ???It has a vaguely British
}> feel to me.
}
} No, it seems, like, so /totally/ unBritish to me. And, especially in
} the elided form "Teach", it seems exclusively American: that must
} come from films or some other source of misapprehension.
...
Didn't "Teacher said ..." show up in "It's a Wonderful Life" about an
angel getting its wings every time a bell rings or something? Erk'd know.
--
rjv
Mike Lyle
Mike Lyle
[...]
>
> *BrE "Taking the register" = reading out the name of each pupil in
> which in our case was "Yes, Mr Rhodes". In other places they said
> things like "Present" or "Here".
In our case it was "Sum", short for "Adsum".
Mike Lyle
[...]
> why put an "it" there? (To me, it was like saying "The object it is
> to do something..." )
... and it's my painful duty to report that there are situations in
which that's correct, too ... But I suggest you try not to think about
them until you actually meet an example: they are rare.
CDB
> CDB wrote:
>> irwell wrote:
>> [apple for the overseer]
>>> Why does the French eleve sound so much better than pupil?
>>> There can be bien eleve, or mal-eleve, but no English equivalent.
>> Around the ill-pupilled, the well-pupilled keep their eyes open.
>> Mal elve oh!
>> A la kot moun mal elve oh!
>> Mal elve oh!
>> A la kot moun mal elve oh!
>> Mal elve oh, mal elve oh,
>> Tout desan mor, yo te malonnèt oh!
> Coq eulles Anne d'Mussellesa l'ail va l'ail vaux!
Ouaïlle* canif rince noticière échelle de Rennes à tous pelle laque
datte?
*En topique, bigote.
CDB
> CDB wrote:
>> irwell wrote:
>> [apple for the overseer]
>>> Why does the French eleve sound so much better than pupil?
>>> There can be bien eleve, or mal-eleve, but no English equivalent.
>> Around the ill-pupilled, the well-pupilled keep their eyes open.
>> Mal elve oh!
>> A la kot moun mal elve oh!
>> Mal elve oh!
>> A la kot moun mal elve oh!
>> Mal elve oh, mal elve oh,
>> Tout desan mor, yo te malonnèt oh!
> Oh, I must comment here! My neighbor's kids occasionally bring
> their DVDs to me to be played on my computer, since their regular
> player (for their TV) does not work. Thus far, I have seen about
> 10 replays of VeggieTales' Lord of the Beans, in which an Elvis
> impersonator doubles as an elvish impersonator. Anyone here know
> the VeggieTales characters? Larry the Cucumber was the one who got
> stripped of his phony ears. But he did do a passable impersonation.
I think I saw them in a revival of Noah's Ark, The Musical.
> (On the screen the word "elves" appears, not "elvish"). Oh, yeah.
> Legoland was the name of the member of the brotherhood.
But Legolamb was a good elve, as the name implies. These are mal
elve, and you have look out for them. The "elve" stuff (all the
vowels are pronounced) was prompted by Irwell's mischievous accentless
conflation of "élève" (pupil) with "élevé" (brought up).
It's a Haitian grievance-song that I remember from my childhood: Badly
brought up*, on the coast people are badly brought up; they can all go
down to death, they were dishonest". I looked, unsuccessfully, on the
web for the proper Creole spelling of "malhonnête" and found that the
song was not recorded anywhere. Now it is, as long as Google can fit
it in with all the archived spam.
*"Mal elve" (mal élevé) is, or was in the fifties, a deadly insult in
Creole. Call a child that and you might have gotten tears.
"Malonnèt" is stronger than "dishonest", too. The Haitians didn't
have much (less, now), but they laid great stress on proper behaviour.
John Holmes
> On Fri, 25 Apr 2008 10:57:49 +1000, "John Holmes"
> <see...@instead.com> wrote:
>
>> "Marking the roll" here. Most schools now do it on computer, so
>> there's an instant record in the office of which students are in the
>> school. I think that's a requirement in case of emergencies
>
> Such as when the computer catches fire?
>
>> and evacuations.
Heh. In the system I'm familiar with, the teacher's computer or laptop
in each classroom would have the data for that class, from which it
would be uploaded onto a classroom subnet server and mirrored onto an
admin subnet server. From there it would be downloaded to the admin
office computer as well as sent to the central education authority's
office twice a day. If the fire was big enough to take out all those,
then you'd have a bigger problem than just the loss of the records.
DJ
> DJ wrote:
> [...]
>> why put an "it" there? (To me, it was like saying "The object it is
>> to do something..." )
>
> ... and it's my painful duty to report that there are situations in
> which that's correct, too ... But I suggest you try not to think about
> them until you actually meet an example: they are rare.
>
Hmm.... A couple of days ago I did a Google Books search and the number
of hits was quite amazing, but I'll take your word for it. At least I
don't have to feel bad that I didn't know this usage. Ha!
--
DJ
outof...@gmail.com
I find this discussion so interesting.
I originally thought that only Taiwanese students are assigned some
responsibilities when they are in school.
The posts are like collecting money; decorating the classroom
bulletin; collecting homework; keeping an
eye on the order of the entire class and so on.
I wonder if this expression "x monitor" is a slang usage or it can be
regarded as a formal expression.
Is "x monitor" a common expression?
I am afraid that a foreign professor cross it out when one day he sees
it in my writing.
Barbara Bailey
ce4b53...@a9g2000prl.googlegroups.com:
Here in the US, it's an accepted expression in principle, but which jobs
are given the title of "x monitor" varies widely from area to area and even
from schol to schol within an area, so I personally would be cautious about
using it in formal writing until I had found out how it was used wherever I
was.
Mike Lyle
But I think it would be quite safe to use it for British readers. One
proviso, though: in a few schools "Monitor" is the word used for
"Prefect" (put simply, an older pupil selected to assist with lower
levels of discipline in most schools based on the British sysetem).
Evan Kirshenbaum
> DJ <n...@nospam.no> wrote:
>
>> Hi,
>>
>> I'm wondering if the "it" in the following sentence is an error?
>>
>> "At school they have "scarecrow monitors" whose job _it_ is to oversee
>> the filling of more buckets from under the drinking taps to water the
>> school vegetable patch."
>>
>> Source:
>> http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/asia-pacific/7361210.stm
>>
>> Thanks,
>
> Nope, it's fine. If it just said "whose job is to oversee the
> filling..." then that would be limiting their job to just the one
> thing.
Right. With "it", it's answering the question
Whose job is it to oversee ... ?
while without "it", it's answering the question
What's the job of a "scarecrow monitor"?
That being said, since the sentence appears to be an explanation of
what a "scarecrow monitor" (which they put in quotes themselves) is, I
would have expected the latter. With the former, there's a bit of an
implication (to me, at least) of "but they do other things, as well."
--
Evan Kirshenbaum +------------------------------------
HP Laboratories |This case--and I must be careful
1501 Page Mill Road, 1U, MS 1141 |not to fall into Spooner's trap
Palo Alto, CA 94304 |here--concerns a group of warring
|bankers.
kirsh...@hpl.hp.com
(650)857-7572
DJ
....
>
> Right. With "it", it's answering the question
>
> Whose job is it to oversee ... ?
>
> while without "it", it's answering the question
>
> What's the job of a "scarecrow monitor"?
>
> That being said, since the sentence appears to be an explanation of
> what a "scarecrow monitor" (which they put in quotes themselves) is, I
> would have expected the latter. With the former, there's a bit of an
> implication (to me, at least) of "but they do other things, as well."
>
You just answered my next question. Thanks!
--
DJ