Les bicyclettes de belsize
Bun Mui
"Les bicyclettes de belsize"?
The bicycle of beautiful size?
Comments?
Bun Mui
Simple Simon B.
Bikes (plural) of Belsize Park (Northern Line station in London). Well, you
never know, it could be right.
Simon.
R H Draney
wrote:
I think Belsize is a place, like Sussudio....
Englebert Humperdinck should have stuck to writing operas like Hansel
and Gretel....r
--
"Never compose an overture before the eve of the opera's premiere.
There is nothing more inspiring than the presence of a copyist,
waiting for page after page of your work than the evil glare of
a theater director, tearing his hair out in despair." - Rossini
John Dean
John Dean
> wrote:
>
> >What does Engelbert Humperdinck mean when he sings-
> >"Les bicyclettes de belsize"?
> >
> >The bicycle of beautiful size?
> >
> >
> >Comments?
> >
> >Bun Mui
>
> I think Belsize is a place, like Sussudio....
>
> Englebert Humperdinck should have stuck to writing operas like Hansel
> and Gretel....r
I didn't know Hansel and Gretel wrote operas ....
Boom! Boom!
Bicyclettes de Belsize is the title music of a short movie of the same name.
Name is a homage to the French movie 'Parapluies de Cherbourg'. And, yes,
Belsize is a district in London
--
John Dean
Oxford
De-frag to reply
Simon R. Hughes
> On Sun, 13 Jan 2002 21:02:52 GMT, Bun Mui <BunM...@hotmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> >What does Engelbert Humperdinck mean when he sings-
> >"Les bicyclettes de belsize"?
> >
> >The bicycle of beautiful size?
> >
> >
> >Comments?
> >
> >Bun Mui
>
> I think Belsize is a place, like Sussudio....
>
> Englebert Humperdinck should have stuck to writing operas like Hansel
> and Gretel....r
I haven't heard of anything written by them.
--
Simon R. Hughes -- http://www.geocities.com/a57998/subconscious/
<!--So much to do, so little time; so much time, so little done.-->
Jon Miller
> Englebert Humperdinck should have stuck to writing operas like Hansel
> and Gretel....r
Die Koenigskinder (The King's Children -- possibly sometimes called "The
Prince and the Goosegirl" [at least I hope so, since that's the plot and
it would be terrible to have an opera with the name that is the same as a
different opera's plot; translation can be sometimes quite difficult,
especially when incompetents are involved]).
http://www.web-helper.net/PDMusic/Articles/31917/article3.asp
"Among Humperdinck's other works at A Moorish Symphony, operas
Dornorschen, Die Heimath Wieder Willen, and musical settings to the
spectacle The Miracle. Humperdinck has the rare ability of combining
naivete with technical skill of the highest character."
Plus a set (sets?) of piano songs.
I've only been able to find snippets. Still, it's really good music
(although the sample is so small that it is easily possible that his
works satisfy Sturgeon's Law). Not great, but very good. We seem to
have a prejudice against fairy-tale operas and things that are based on
folk themes. Nonetheless, Die Koenigskinder seems to be enjoying a
revival of sorts. I doubt that it will ever rival Tosca.
Jon Miller
ntaylor
>What does Engelbert Humperdinck mean when he sings-
>"Les bicyclettes de belsize"?
>
>The bicycle of beautiful size?
>
NT> According to the Dictionary of English Place Names
Belsize means 'beautiful site or seat'
David Squire
...which would suggest that it is cognate with "beau siege" in modern French.
D.
John O'Flaherty
What is Sturgeon's law?
--
john
Robert Lieblich
<http://www.tuxedo.org/~esr/jargon/html/entry/Sturgeon's-Law.html>.
The Web is a wondrous place.
BTW, the reformulations often change the percentage to 95% pr 99%,
and the final word often appears as "shit."
This is the converse of something my father used to say, more or
less to this effect -- For almost any human activity, there is
someone so good at it that watching him (my father wasn't very PC)
perform it is worthwhile. ... Before anyone posts a
counter-example, please note that he said "almost any."
--
Bob Lieblich
Not that good at anything, dammit
Robert Bannister
> On Sun, 13 Jan 2002 21:02:52 GMT, Bun Mui <BunM...@hotmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> >What does Engelbert Humperdinck mean when he sings-
> >"Les bicyclettes de belsize"?
> >
> >The bicycle of beautiful size?
> >
> >
> >Comments?
> >
> >Bun Mui
>
> I think Belsize is a place, like Sussudio....
>
> Englebert Humperdinck should have stuck to writing operas like Hansel
> and Gretel....r
I particularly liked his song, "I remember you-oo".
--
Rob Bannister
Robert Bannister
Whoops! That was Frank Ifield. I can't remember any of the unmemorable
songs by the pop singer, E Humperdinck.
--
Rob Bannister
R H Draney
www.allmusic.com suggests the following titles:
There Goes My Everything
Release Me
Last Waltz
Am I That Easy to Forget? (maybe *this* was what you meant?)
After the Lovin'
You'll Never Know
What Now, My Love?
Very Thought of You
Spanish Eyes
Lovely Way to Spend an Evening
Next time we can do Dave Dee, Dozy, Beaky, Mick and Tich....r
--
Like Hamilton, Joe Frank and Reynolds, the cardinality of this group
is liable to cause some uncertainty....
Jon Miller
> I can't remember any of the unmemorable songs by the pop singer, E
> Humperdinck.
Sure you can. "When at night I go to sleep, fourteen angels watch do keep."
etc.
I remember thinking that Humperdinck must have been somewhat of a scholar to
go back to the 1700s to find some forgotten opera composer. (Hey, I was
young -- very young.) Imagine my surprise to discover that (the real)
Humperdinck's productive period was from the 1890s almost right up to his
death around 1923. And just because I didn't know Hansel and Gretel until
sometime after I was 10 doesn't mean it wasn't part of general cultural
knowledge at the time.
Jon Miller
David
> >
> > I particularly liked his song, "I remember you-oo".
>
> Whoops! That was Frank Ifield.
Aha! The well-known Australian from Coventry.
--
David
The address is valid, but I will change it at to keep ahead of the
spammers.
Laura F Spira
>
> On Wed, 16 Jan 2002 08:13:40 +0800, Robert Bannister
> <rob...@it.net.au> wrote:
>
> >Robert Bannister wrote:
> >
> >> R H Draney wrote:
> >>
> >> > Englebert Humperdinck should have stuck to writing operas like Hansel
> >> > and Gretel....r
> >>
> >> I particularly liked his song, "I remember you-oo".
> >
> >Whoops! That was Frank Ifield. I can't remember any of the unmemorable
> >songs by the pop singer, E Humperdinck.
>
> www.allmusic.com suggests the following titles:
>
> There Goes My Everything
> Release Me
> Last Waltz
> Am I That Easy to Forget? (maybe *this* was what you meant?)
> After the Lovin'
> You'll Never Know
> What Now, My Love?
> Very Thought of You
> Spanish Eyes
> Lovely Way to Spend an Evening
Those titles can be rearranged to make quite a poignant little tale. Ah,
the potency of cheap music...
>
> Next time we can do Dave Dee, Dozy, Beaky, Mick and Tich....r
Hold tight!
--
Laura
(emulate St. George for email)
John Holmes
"David" <bass.a...@ntlworld.com> wrote in message
news:3C4563FB...@ntlworld.com...
> Robert Bannister wrote:
>
> > >
> > > I particularly liked his song, "I remember you-oo".
> >
> > Whoops! That was Frank Ifield.
>
> Aha! The well-known Australian from Coventry.
Who else do you claim?
John Farnham?
Rolf Harris?
The Bee Gees?
...
(There must be quite a few.)
--
Regards
John
Paul
David Squire wrote in message <3C425186...@csse.monash.edu.au>...
I can see it now - indignant headlines in the Daily Mail.....
"EU in Underground Name Change Scandal"
...as Brussels demands that the entire Underground map be translated into
French thus...
Le Parc de St Jacques
Rue du Boulanger
Porte Élevée
Le Buisson du Berger
Ville Blanche
Roi est fâché
Quel Gué
although heavens knows what they'd do with
Theydon Bois or Marylebone
P
ntaylor
NT> But WATERLOO would still remain.
Donna Richoux
I'd have to look up what the French called the battle of Waterloo (which
is a Flemish placename), but it was completely different. Quatrebras,
maybe.
Like Manassas and Bull Run.
--
Best -- Donna Richoux
ntaylor
NT> There is already Eau de Toilette, this would do for the French
and the Flems could keep Waterloo.
Robert Bannister
And Hainault.
--
Rob Bannister
Pierre Jelenc
>
> I'd have to look up what the French called the battle of Waterloo (which
> is a Flemish placename), but it was completely different. Quatrebras,
> maybe.
Heh? I'm just peeking mid-thread, but is that supposed to be a joke?
Waterloo is Waterloo.
Pierre
--
Pierre Jelenc | H o m e O f f i c e R e c o r d s
| * The Dan Emery Mystery Band * Pawnshop *
T h e G i g o m e t e r | * The Cucumbers * RAW Kinder *
www.thegigometer.com | www.homeofficerecords.com
Donna Richoux
> Donna Richoux <tr...@euronet.nl> writes:
> >
> > I'd have to look up what the French called the battle of Waterloo (which
> > is a Flemish placename), but it was completely different. Quatrebras,
> > maybe.
>
> Heh? I'm just peeking mid-thread, but is that supposed to be a joke?
> Waterloo is Waterloo.
No, it wasn't meant to be a joke. What Napoleon called it was the Battle
of Mont-St.-Jean. (_Napoloeon on Napoleon: An Autobiography of the
Emperor_ edited by Somerset de Chair, 1992). As to what it is called
today, you know more than I.
I see there that Quatre Bras was one of the bivouac locations of the
French army.
ntaylor
NT> Your quoted source has not got it right, MontSt.Jean was just one
of many actions in the Battle of Waterloo.
Do you have the actual words that Napoleon used in the quoted
source, I have a collection of Napoleon books and sayings,
including Napoleon's Maxims. FRank McLynn's Napoleon (1997)
has extensive French references, Waterloo is the name given
to the final Battle of Napoleon's career.
Pierre Jelenc
> Pierre Jelenc <rc...@panix.com> wrote:
> > Donna Richoux <tr...@euronet.nl> writes:
> > >
> > > I'd have to look up what the French called the battle of Waterloo
> No, it wasn't meant to be a joke. What Napoleon called it was the Battle
> of Mont-St.-Jean.
Perhaps he did, but the French certainly do not. It's never been called
anything but Waterloo by the French as far as I know.
Waterloo ! Waterloo ! Waterloo ! morne plaine !
Comme une onde qui bout dans une urne trop pleine,
Dans ton cirque de bois, de coteaux, de vallons,
La pāle mort mźlait les sombres bataillons.
Victor Hugo
Mont St Jean is a village, about a mile south of Waterloo.
Mickwick
>Donna Richoux <tr...@euronet.nl> writes:
>> I'd have to look up what the French called the battle of Waterloo (which
>> is a Flemish placename), but it was completely different. Quatrebras,
>> maybe.
>
>Heh? I'm just peeking mid-thread, but is that supposed to be a joke?
>Waterloo is Waterloo.
It was very nearly La Belle Alliance, a more accurate name both
geographically and militarily.
--
Mickwick
Donna Richoux
There is a long chapter in the autobiography titled "The Battle of
Mont-St-Jean (Waterloo)". Napoleon doesn't call the battle anything in
the text, because he is too busy describing it in minute detail. In
passing, he naturally names all the releveant villages, farms, etc. He
mentions that Waterloo is where the British army was headquartered and
where its artillery fire came from. I am reluctant to study this chapter
in great detail, to see who maneuvered where -- it's been a long time
since I studied that battle.
In the following chapter, "Final Observations", he goes over various
points of the fighting, again without calling it anything. At one spot
he says, "The English general gave battle at Waterloo on the 18th" and,
a bit later, "The English general, in deciding to accept battle at
Waterloo... A battle usually lasts six hours... [this one lasted 13
hours]..." Napoleon here is discussing the very specific location and
timing. The fighting in the area had already been going on since the
15th.
Later he says, "To sum up, if Marshal Groucy had been on the battlefield
of Mont-St-Jean, as the English general and the Prussian general
expected,, throughout the night of the 17th to 18th..." Maybe he thought
of "Mont-St-Jean" as the battlefield and "Waterloo" as the fighting on
the 18th only. I'm no Napoleon expert. All I know is that the editor of
this book, who *is* a Napoleon expert, presented the material this way.
Donna Richoux
> Donna Richoux <tr...@euronet.nl> writes:
> > Pierre Jelenc <rc...@panix.com> wrote:
> > > Donna Richoux <tr...@euronet.nl> writes:
> > > >
> > > > I'd have to look up what the French called the battle of Waterloo
> > > Waterloo is Waterloo.
> > No, it wasn't meant to be a joke. What Napoleon called it was the Battle
> > of Mont-St.-Jean.
>
> Perhaps he did, but the French certainly do not. It's never been called
> anything but Waterloo by the French as far as I know.
>
> Waterloo ! Waterloo ! Waterloo ! morne plaine !
> Comme une onde qui bout dans une urne trop pleine,
> Dans ton cirque de bois, de coteaux, de vallons,
> La pāle mort mźlait les sombres bataillons.
>
> Victor Hugo
>
> Mont St Jean is a village, about a mile south of Waterloo.
Well, besides Napoleon, I don't know who else might have. He didn't live
long after the battle, so maybe his opinion on what to call it didn't
carry much weight.
So do the French pronounce Waterloo as if it were English? (Lou or lo?)
Double-o not being one of your own spellings, and the Flemish way
differing from the English way.
Pierre Jelenc
>
> So do the French pronounce Waterloo as if it were English? (Lou or lo?)
> Double-o not being one of your own spellings, and the Flemish way
> differing from the English way.
As in Flemish: water-loh. As far as I know it does not have a Walloon
name.
Donna Richoux
[snip discussion of: What Napoleon called Waterloo was the Battle
of Mont-St.-Jean.']
Pierre Jelenc <rc...@panix.com> wrote:
> >
> > Perhaps he did, but the French certainly do not. It's never been called
> > anything but Waterloo by the French as far as I know.
> >
> > Waterloo ! Waterloo ! Waterloo ! morne plaine !
> > Comme une onde qui bout dans une urne trop pleine,
> > Dans ton cirque de bois, de coteaux, de vallons,
> > La pâle mort mêlait les sombres bataillons.
> >
> > Victor Hugo
> >
> > Mont St Jean is a village, about a mile south of Waterloo.
>
> Well, besides Napoleon, I don't know who else might have. He didn't live
> long after the battle, so maybe his opinion on what to call it didn't
> carry much weight.
I went looking for what evidence I could find.
There aren't very many results for "bataille du Mont St Jean" or
"bataille du Mont Saint Jean" on the web, but there are some. At least
right around the time, that does appear to be the French name for it,
and in particular the fighting on the 18th, not everything in the
vicinity during those several days. For example, these contemporary
extracts:
# Blessé par un coup de feu à l'épaule droite à la bataille du Mont
Saint Jean le 18 juin 1815
# Présumé prisonnier de guerre à la bataille de Mont-Saint-Jean le
18/06/1815.
# [from a letter dated 16 novembre 1815] Il a fui à la bataille du
Mont Saint Jean, est revenu chez lui d'où il a rejoint ensuite
l'armée de la Loire.
A commemorative medal was made in France, between 1815 and 1820, with
the inscription
Bataille du Mont St Jean
XVIII Juin MDCCCXV
From some historical and biographical accounts:
# Waterloo est le nom d'un petit village situé au Nord , dont le rôle
joué dans la bataille est inexistant. Wellington y a simplement
pris ses quartiers les jours précédents. Le nom officiel de cette
bataille pour l'armée Française sera un temps "la bataille du Mont
St Jean". Les Prussiens voulurent l'appeler la bataille de "La
Belle Alliance". Nom qui convenait mieux pour désigner la
coalition. Wellington s'y refusa.
# Emmanuel, marquis de Grouchy, Maréchal (1815) (Paris, 1766 -
Saint-Etienne, 1847) ...Le Prussien masque le mouvement de ses
troupes en laissant une arrière-garde en rideau. Le 18 juin,
Grouchy, sur la route de Wavres, entend le bruit des canons de la
bataille de Mont-Saint-Jean. Il ne se détourne pas. Il n'a reçu
aucun ordre en ce sens.
# Waterloo, la "morne plaine" de Victor Hugo, doit sa renommée au duc
de Wellington. C'est de son quartier général qu'il rédigea le
message de la défaite de Napoléon dans la bataille de
Mont-Saint-Jean ou de la "Belle Alliance".
An interesting hit in English was from:
http://www.geocities.com/athens/forum/7227/ifnapwon.htm
IF NAPOLEON HAD WON THE BATTLE OF WATERLOO
BY G. MACAULAY TREVELYAN
In July 1907 the Westminster Gazette offered a prize for an essay
on this subject. This was the successful essay.
In the essay, the writer takes the position that if Napoleon had won, it
would have been called the victory of Mont St Jean.
Well, you know what they say about who it is who gets to write the
history books.
ntaylor
NT> Trevelyan is a respected historian, thanks for the insight
Donna.
John Dean
"Donna Richoux" <tr...@euronet.nl> wrote in message
news:1f695o4.14wkfyu17ie7nsN%tr...@euronet.nl...
Quatre Bras was a battle in its own right, taking place on the 16th
concurrently with the battle of Ligny. Napoleon beat the Prussians at Ligny
but they recovered sufficiently to send a Corps to deliver the decisive
moment at Waterloo (' ''Grouchy!'' dit il. C'etait Blucher!' - V.H. again)
while the balance of their forces fought at Wavre.
The Battle of Waterloo took place South of Waterloo and acquired that name
only because Wellington's HQ was in Waterloo and it was there he wrote the
Despatch proclaiming victory. Napoleon's HQ was at Mont St Jean & that's how
he would have headed his Victory despatch had he been privileged to write
one.
So the Waterloo *Campaign* is usually thought to consist of the 4 battles
from the 16th-18th June. The *Battle* of Waterloo is Wellington v. Napoleon
at a point between Waterloo and Mont St Jean. If the Battle were to be named
after its location, you would need to toss a coin to decide between
Hougomont and La Haye Sainte.
Lots of Battles end up with weird names that have but a tenuous connection
with their location. Bonus points for anyone who can locate 'The Battle of
Chinese Farm' in time and space without reference to the Net
--
John Dean
Oxford
De-frag to reply
Mickwick
[...]
>The Battle of Waterloo took place South of Waterloo and acquired that name
>only because Wellington's HQ was in Waterloo and it was there he wrote the
>Despatch proclaiming victory. Napoleon's HQ was at Mont St Jean & that's how
>he would have headed his Victory despatch had he been privileged to write
>one.
Mais non! Napoleon's HQ was near the inn at La Belle Alliance.
Wellington kept on the move during the battle but the centre of his
position was Mont St Jean. That was the name of the hamlet and farm in
the middle of the ridge that the Allies defended and the French attacked
all day and it was from near Mont St Jean that Wellington stood in his
stirrups and waved his hat in the air to signal a general advance when
Blucher finally arrived.
After the rout, Wellington met Blucher at La Belle Alliance then retired
to an inn in the forest of Soignies, several miles north of the
battlefield, to write his dispatch.
I think it was very churlish of him not to name the battle La Belle
Alliance. Blucher bust a gut to bring his men up in time.
>So the Waterloo *Campaign* is usually thought to consist of the 4 battles
>from the 16th-18th June. The *Battle* of Waterloo is Wellington v. Napoleon
>at a point between Waterloo and Mont St Jean.
Non! At a point between Mont St Jean and La Belle Alliance. And don't
forget Blucher.
> If the Battle were to be named
>after its location, you would need to toss a coin to decide between
>Hougomont and La Haye Sainte.
La Haye Sainte has the better claim, it being more central.
>Lots of Battles end up with weird names that have but a tenuous connection
>with their location. Bonus points for anyone who can locate 'The Battle of
>Chinese Farm' in time and space without reference to the Net
Gettysburg?
--
Mickwick
John Dean
"Mickwick" <use...@nospam.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
news:Ow+RehBF...@wickenden.demon.co.uk...
> In alt.usage.english, John Dean <john...@frag.lineone.net> wrote:
>
> [...]
>
> >The Battle of Waterloo took place South of Waterloo and acquired that
name
> >only because Wellington's HQ was in Waterloo and it was there he wrote
the
> >Despatch proclaiming victory. Napoleon's HQ was at Mont St Jean & that's
how
> >he would have headed his Victory despatch had he been privileged to write
> >one.
>
> Mais non! Napoleon's HQ was near the inn at La Belle Alliance.
Quite right. Why, having intended to write 'Belle Alliance' I ended up with
Mont St Jean I rilly dunno
trac...@gmail.com
Don Phillipson
news:754fc539-c41e-49f6...@googlegroups.com...
> So after all of the criticism and shallowness ..there is no answer. Not
> here anyway.
from:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Les_Bicyclettes_de_Belsize
--
Don Phillipson
Carlsbad Springs
(Ottawa, Canada)
Steve Hayes
>So after all of the criticism and shallowness ..there is no answer. Not here anyway.
What shallowness?
And what is the question to which there is no answer?
--
Steve Hayes from Tshwane, South Africa
Web: http://www.khanya.org.za/stevesig.htm
Blog: http://khanya.wordpress.com
E-mail - see web page, or parse: shayes at dunelm full stop org full stop uk
Derek Turner
> So after all of the criticism and shallowness ..there is no answer. Not
> here anyway.
Mack A. Damia
<haye...@telkomsa.net> wrote:
>On Sun, 20 Jul 2014 01:01:25 -0700 (PDT), trac...@gmail.com wrote:
>
>>So after all of the criticism and shallowness ..there is no answer. Not here anyway.
>
>What criticism?
>
>What shallowness?
>
>And what is the question to which there is no answer?
Do a Google Groups. There are forty messages.
--
R H Draney
--
Me? Sarcastic?
Yeah, right.
Mack A. Damia
wrote:
--
Peter Moylan
Mack A. Damia
wrote:
--
Guy Barry
news:l9uns9t0r6s073mfv...@4ax.com...
such phantom replies appear. Google Groups must have improved its
interface.
--
Guy Barry
jclo...@gmail.com
valerie...@gmail.com
CDB
romantic.
Did you intend to post your comment to an English-language usage group?
Belsize must be in England (Ms Mathieu sings "C'était à Londres" (it
was in London), and pronounces "Belsize" with the English vowel of
"size" (so I wondered if there might be a suggestion of "sighs"
somewhere in it. A long shot, I suppose.)
Peter T. Daniels
occam
mins) starring Judy Huxtable and Anthony May. " (Wiki)
Yes, the pronunciation of Belsize in the song is the English
pronunciation. Belsize Park is the London Tube Station I got in and out
of for about ten years in the 80s. So, the original poster was probably
wrong in thinking the song was meant for France.
Athel Cornish-Bowden
can't find it.
--
athel
CDB
>> valerie...@gmail.com wrote:
>>> I feel this song is in France during the war and they have one
>>> last day to be together and they go to Belsize on their bikes so
>>> carefree.....I’m sure I’m wrong, but I think my take is quite
>>> romantic, and I love the song!!
>> I have just listened to the song on Youtube, and I agree that it
>> is very romantic.
>> Did you intend to post your comment to an English-language usage
>> group? Belsize must be in England (Ms Mathieu sings "C'était à
>> Londres" (it was in London), and pronounces "Belsize" with the
>> English vowel of "size" (so I wondered if there might be a
>> suggestion of "sighs" somewhere in it. A long shot, I suppose.)
> Et tu, CDB? January 2002.
Kerr-Mudd,John
> They're all new till you've read them.
>
Bah, and indeed, Humbug.
Paul Wolff
wife remembers seeing the film though. Les parapluies de Cherbourg,
perhaps.
--
Paul
J. J. Lodder
(fide wikipedia)
Jan
Peter T. Daniels
Biograph -- Chicago has/had two art/revival houses) and loved it.
Years later a DVD finally came out. It definitely does not seem
to be the gorgeously restored version.
I expect that if I wonder why it is "Les Bicyclettes" and not "The
Bicycles," if it's an English movie, I'll be mocked.
![Peter Duncanson [BrE]'s profile photo](http://lh3.googleusercontent.com/a-/ALV-UjU1GGYFBCZgBCNB-pRgkosMu-ej0qpnECw3jc8uGYOTiF8a=s40-c)
Peter Duncanson [BrE]
Ireland). I haven't been able to discover the origin of the name.
--
Peter Duncanson, UK
(in alt.usage.english)
musika
> There is a Belsize Road not far from my house (in Lisburn, Northern
> Ireland). I haven't been able to discover the origin of the name.
>
--
Ray
UK
Ross Clark
30-minute musical film in 1968? Has any present-company seen it?
Peter Moylan
>>> On Sun, 19 Jul 2020, at 16:48:19, occam <oc...@invalid.nix>
>>> posted:
>>>> film (30 mins) starring Judy Huxtable and Anthony May. "
>>>> (Wiki)
> 30-minute musical film in 1968? Has any present-company seen it?
shorter films.
That's quite different from the practice today, where the first hour
seems to be devoted to advertising future releases.
--
Peter Moylan Newcastle, NSW
Athel Cornish-Bowden
> On 20/07/2020 9:33 a.m., Peter T. Daniels wrote:
>>
>>
>> I expect that if I wonder why it is "Les Bicyclettes" and not "The
>> Bicycles," if it's an English movie, I'll be mocked.
>
> I'll risk mockery by adding my own wonder: What was the market for a
> 30-minute musical film in 1968? Has any present-company seen it?
--
athel
Athel Cornish-Bowden
--
athel
bil...@shaw.ca
a few years later called The Triplets of Belleville. It's charming.
https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0286244/
bill
occam
>
> I wouldn't be where I am today without Belsize Park. Neither I nor my
> wife remembers seeing the film though. Les parapluies de Cherbourg,
> perhaps.
Belsize Park in London. I am not sure however why you attribute so much
importance to Belsize Park. Were you born there?
J. J. Lodder
Jan
Ross Clark
> On 20/07/20 15:31, Ross Clark wrote:
>>>> On Sun, 19 Jul 2020, at 16:48:19, occam <oc...@invalid.nix>
>>>> posted:
>
>>>>> "Les Bicyclettes de Belsize is a 1968 British musical short
>>>>> film (30 mins) starring Judy Huxtable and Anthony May. "
>>>>> (Wiki)
>
>> I'll risk mockery by adding my own wonder: What was the market for a
>> 30-minute musical film in 1968? Has any present-company seen it?
>
> In the 1960s a movie ticket got you one main feature and a couple of
> shorter films.
(probably already gone by 1968). Film lengths were strongly bimodal --
shorts and features -- and 30 minutes strikes me as a real outlier.
Ross Clark
probably shown mainly to art-house audiences anyway.
Ross Clark
> On 20/07/2020 5:47 p.m., Peter Moylan wrote:
>> On 20/07/20 15:31, Ross Clark wrote:
>>>>> On Sun, 19 Jul 2020, at 16:48:19, occam <oc...@invalid.nix>
>>>>> posted:
>>
>>>>>> "Les Bicyclettes de Belsize is a 1968 British musical short
>>>>>> film (30 mins) starring Judy Huxtable and Anthony May. "
>>>>>> (Wiki)
>>
>>> I'll risk mockery by adding my own wonder: What was the market for a
>>> 30-minute musical film in 1968? Has any present-company seen it?
>>
>> In the 1960s a movie ticket got you one main feature and a couple of
>> shorter films.
>
> Sure, but "shorter" generally meant cartoons (5 min?) and newsreels
> (probably already gone by 1968). Film lengths were strongly bimodal --
> shorts and features -- and 30 minutes strikes me as a real outlier.
>
"[LBdB] played on [sc. in] cinemas as a supporting feature to Roy
Boulting's controversial horror film Twisted Nerve. The two films also
shared a soundtrack release, with each score occupying one side each of
a 1969 Polydor Records album."
(Now that I would like to hear -- at least once. Especially as Twisted
Nerve had a score by Bernard Herrmann.)
So a rather adventurous distribution deal by British Lion, but no
information on how this was cooked up in the first place. Perhaps both
were expected to appeal to the Yoof market.
Oh, also:
"The title is derivative of the French film, Les Parapluies de
Cherbourg; apart from a musical theme there is no other obvious link."
(By "musical theme" I take it they mean the fact that both films are
musicals (tell a story with songs), rather than an actual sequence of
notes.)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Les_Bicyclettes_de_Belsize
charles
--
from KT24 in Surrey, England
"I'd rather die of exhaustion than die of boredom" Thomas Carlyle
Kerr-Mudd,John
Peter Moylan
>
> Oh, also:
>
> "The title is derivative of the French film, Les Parapluies de
> Cherbourg; apart from a musical theme there is no other obvious
> link."
>
> (By "musical theme" I take it they mean the fact that both films are
> musicals (tell a story with songs), rather than an actual sequence
> of notes.)
>
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Les_Bicyclettes_de_Belsize
readable trilogy set in wartime France. But apparently that was
published much later than the Belsize bikes.
Paul Wolff
across the road from her mother's flat on her father's arm. (No, it's
not ambiguous.)
--
Paul
bebe...@aol.com
Peter T. Daniels
features (the notion of "B picture" hung on for a lot longer than the
auteurist aficionados would have you believe), but Up Here a "short"
is two reels -- 20 minutes.
Peter T. Daniels
> On 20/07/2020 6:26 p.m., bil...@shaw.ca wrote:
> > On Sunday, July 19, 2020 at 11:02:09 PM UTC-7, Athel Cornish-Bowden wrote:
> >> On 2020-07-20 05:31:49 +0000, Ross Clark said:
> >>> On 20/07/2020 9:33 a.m., Peter T. Daniels wrote:
> >>>> I expect that if I wonder why it is "Les Bicyclettes" and not "The
> >>>> Bicycles," if it's an English movie, I'll be mocked.
> >>> I'll risk mockery by adding my own wonder: What was the market for a
> >>> 30-minute musical film in 1968? Has any present-company seen it?
> >> Not me. I'd never heard of it before this thread.
> > I'd give it a try. And it reminds me of a wonderful animation from
> > a few years later called The Triplets of Belleville. It's charming.
> > https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0286244/
> probably shown mainly to art-house audiences anyway.
been longer. Who knows what they've grown to now -- *Finding Nemo*,
seen on an airplane, did seem to go on and on and on. Ellen deGeneris
is no Robin Williams when it comes to improvising stuff for the
animators to visualizate.)
Peter Duncanson [BrE]
wrote:
When I wrote "I haven't been able to discover the origin of the name" I
meant why the road was given that name. Was it named after someone with
the surname Belsize who lived in the district or was it named after a
place elsewhere with the name Belsize, or something else.
musika
avenues of enquiry.
--
Ray
UK
HVanS
shown on Roque's map of 1745 on the site of Belsize Square.
Cheers, Harvey
HVanS
"Street Names of London".
Cheers, Harvey
Sam Plusnet
I was searching the remnants of my memory to dredge up that animation.
--
Sam Plusnet
Ross Clark
> On Monday, July 20, 2020 at 4:14:43 AM UTC-4, Ross wrote:
>> On 20/07/2020 6:26 p.m., bil...@shaw.ca wrote:
>>> On Sunday, July 19, 2020 at 11:02:09 PM UTC-7, Athel Cornish-Bowden wrote:
>>>> On 2020-07-20 05:31:49 +0000, Ross Clark said:
>>>>> On 20/07/2020 9:33 a.m., Peter T. Daniels wrote:
>
>>>>>> I expect that if I wonder why it is "Les Bicyclettes" and not "The
>>>>>> Bicycles," if it's an English movie, I'll be mocked.
>>>>> I'll risk mockery by adding my own wonder: What was the market for a
>>>>> 30-minute musical film in 1968? Has any present-company seen it?
>>>> Not me. I'd never heard of it before this thread.
>>> I'd give it a try. And it reminds me of a wonderful animation from
>>> a few years later called The Triplets of Belleville. It's charming.
>>> https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0286244/
>> Agreed, but at 1 hr 20 mins that was close enough to feature length; and
>> probably shown mainly to art-house audiences anyway.
>
> Disney's animated features were 65 minutes.
true. In fact, of 23 Disney animated features up to 1967, the only ones
that short are Dumbo (64) and Saludos Amigos (42). The others ranged
from 68 to 88; in the 50s they standardized in the mid-70s, getting a
little longer towards the end. The outliers were Song of the South (94,
only partly animated) and Fantasia (126).
See IMDb or
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Disney_theatrical_animated_feature_films
Ross Clark
40 minutes or less. This includes what used to be called in the trade
"short subjects" (up to 20 min) and "featurettes" (20-40). The latter
category would include the Bicyclettes -- I'm wondering how many of that
length were being produced in 1968 and where they were marketed?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Short_film
bruce2...@gmail.com
> On Sun, 13 Jan 2002 21:02:52 GMT, Bun Mui <BunM...@hotmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> >What does Engelbert Humperdinck mean when he sings-
> >"Les bicyclettes de belsize"?
> >
> >The bicycle of beautiful size?
> >
> >
> >Comments?
> >
> >Bun Mui
>
> I think Belsize is a place, like Sussudio....
Wait a minute, isn't that spelled 'Susussudio'?
Peter Moylan
care about spelling.
There's a suburb near me called Speers Point. I've just read that the
name comes from a person called Spiers, who bought the land that
subsequently became Speers Point Park. That was recently enough that
there's no clear reason for the name to become mangled.
Peter Moylan
was the "Comments?" that gave it away.
charles
seat is mentioned there.
Kerr-Mudd,John
HVS
> On 21/07/20 02:01, HVanS wrote:
>> On Mon, 20 Jul 2020 16:15:08 +0100, "Peter Duncanson [BrE]"
>> <ma...@peterduncanson.net> wrote:
>
>>> When I wrote "I haven't been able to discover the origin of the
>>> name" I meant why the road was given that name. Was it named
>>> after someone with the surname Belsize who lived in the district
>>> or was it named after a place elsewhere with the name Belsize,
>>> or something else.
>>
>> It's apparently from "Belassis", the name of a manor house and
>> park shown on Roque's map of 1745 on the site of Belsize Square.
>
> It seems to be common for place names to be assigned by people who
> don't care about spelling.
centuries before *anybody* cared about regularised spelling.
From the Victoria County History -- https://www.british-
history.ac.uk/vch/middx/vol9/pp91-111 -- which goes into trance-
inducing detail of the "manorial" descent:
[quote]
The so-called manor of Belassise, Belseys, or BELSIZE, whose name
means 'beautifully sited', was first named in 1334-5, (fn. 59) but
appears to have originated in the 1 hide of land of the villani which
Ranulf Peverell held in Hampstead of the abbot of Westminster in
1086. (fn. 60)
[end quote]
(For those who may not know why it's referred to as a "so-called
manor", this is because the term "manor" (like "manor house") was
used loosely. The only suggestion that it might have been a manor
will have been the name itself, rather than, say, records of a
manorial court.)
> There's a suburb near me called Speers Point. I've just read that
> the name comes from a person called Spiers, who bought the land
> that subsequently became Speers Point Park. That was recently
> enough that there's no clear reason for the name to become
> mangled.
--
CanEng (30 yrs) and BrEng (38 yrs),
indiscriminately mixed
Chrysi Cat
>> On 7/19/2020 12:36 AM, valerie...@gmail.com wrote:
>
>>> I feel this song is in France during the war and they have one last
>>> day to be together and they go to Belsize on their bikes so
>>> carefree.....I’m sure I’m wrong, but I think my take is quite
>>> romantic, and I love the song!!
>>
>> I have just listened to the song on Youtube, and I agree that it is very
>> romantic.
>>
>> Did you intend to post your comment to an English-language usage group?
>> Belsize must be in England (Ms Mathieu sings "C'était à Londres" (it
>> was in London), and pronounces "Belsize" with the English vowel of
>> "size" (so I wondered if there might be a suggestion of "sighs"
>> somewhere in it. A long shot, I suppose.)
>
>
I don't know where you get that date. The Valerie Kroehler headline is
dated 18 July 2020 in MY newsreader.
--
Chrysi Cat
1/2 anthrocat, nearly 1/2 anthrofox, all magical
Transgoddess, quick to anger.
Call me Chrysi or call me Kat, I'll respond to either!
Peter T. Daniels
> On 7/19/2020 8:14 AM, Peter T. Daniels wrote:
> > On Sunday, July 19, 2020 at 9:28:58 AM UTC-4, CDB wrote:
> >> On 7/19/2020 12:36 AM, valerie...@gmail.com wrote:
> >>> I feel this song is in France during the war and they have one last
> >>> day to be together and they go to Belsize on their bikes so
> >>> carefree.....I’m sure I’m wrong, but I think my take is quite
> >>> romantic, and I love the song!!
> >> I have just listened to the song on Youtube, and I agree that it is very
> >> romantic.
> >> Did you intend to post your comment to an English-language usage group?
> >> Belsize must be in England (Ms Mathieu sings "C'était à Londres" (it
> >> was in London), and pronounces "Belsize" with the English vowel of
> >> "size" (so I wondered if there might be a suggestion of "sighs"
> >> somewhere in it. A long shot, I suppose.)
> > Et tu, CDB? January 2002.
>
> I don't know where you get that date. The Valerie Kroehler headline is
> dated 18 July 2020 in MY newsreader.
Why are you trolling through weeks-old posts looking for something to
bitch about?
Chrysi Cat
doing matches the pre-Internet meaning of the word. I came across this
group about a month ago via a crossposting to r.a.sf.fandom, downloaded
I think the first 150k headers, and am trying to catch up on everything
I grabbed.
It's just a pleasant surprise to find an actual newsgroup that's still
mainly active.
Still, I doubt it's active enough that "the type of necroposting to be
condemned" applies even to the early-April headers that were the oldest
I managed to fetch.
Chrysi Cat
unpredictable narcoleptic episodes for nearly two decades (they were a
large part of my flunking out of uni, especially on my second attempt),
and thus I rarely manage more than about 4-5 hours a day of trying to
read the bodies. And all this despite being young enough that I probably
would have to be the bonus baby for most of your families (born in '77)!
Add to that that I want to talk on about 10 percent, and...yeah.
HVS
empty room.
--
Cheers, Harvey
CanEng (30 yrs) and BrEng (36 yrs),
indiscriminately mixed
Peter T. Daniels
> On 8/2/2020 4:44 PM, Peter T. Daniels wrote:
> > On Sunday, August 2, 2020 at 5:47:44 PM UTC-4, Chrysi Cat wrote:
> >> On 7/19/2020 8:14 AM, Peter T. Daniels wrote:
> >>> On Sunday, July 19, 2020 at 9:28:58 AM UTC-4, CDB wrote:
> >>>> On 7/19/2020 12:36 AM, valerie...@gmail.com wrote:
> >
> >>>>> I feel this song is in France during the war and they have one last
> >>>>> day to be together and they go to Belsize on their bikes so
> >>>>> carefree.....I’m sure I’m wrong, but I think my take is quite
> >>>>> romantic, and I love the song!!
> >>>> I have just listened to the song on Youtube, and I agree that it is very
> >>>> romantic.
> >>>> Did you intend to post your comment to an English-language usage group?
> >>>> Belsize must be in England (Ms Mathieu sings "C'était à Londres" (it
> >>>> was in London), and pronounces "Belsize" with the English vowel of
> >>>> "size" (so I wondered if there might be a suggestion of "sighs"
> >>>> somewhere in it. A long shot, I suppose.)
> >>> Et tu, CDB? January 2002.
> >>
> >> I don't know where you get that date. The Valerie Kroehler headline is
> >> dated 18 July 2020 in MY newsreader.
> >
> > I looked at the first message in the thread. Even TC knows how to do that.
> >
> > Why are you trolling through weeks-old posts looking for something to
> > bitch about?
> >
>
> I'm not "looking for something to bitch about"
> and the only trolling I'm
> doing matches the pre-Internet meaning of the word.
> I came across this
> group about a month ago via a crossposting to r.a.sf.fandom, downloaded
> I think the first 150k headers,
of putting permanently on a drive until deliberately deleting), you
just go there and look at what's been stored on a server somewhere.
> and am trying to catch up on everything
> I grabbed.
>
> It's just a pleasant surprise to find an actual newsgroup that's still
> mainly active.
>
> Still, I doubt it's active enough that "the type of necroposting to be
> condemned" applies even to the early-April headers that were the oldest
> I managed to fetch.
Peter Moylan
> On Thursday, August 6, 2020 at 5:51:23 AM UTC-4, Chrysi Cat wrote:
>> I came across this
>> group about a month ago via a crossposting to r.a.sf.fandom, downloaded
>> I think the first 150k headers,
>
> How bizarre. With Google Groups there's no "downloading" (in the sense
> of putting permanently on a drive until deliberately deleting), you
> just go there and look at what's been stored on a server somewhere.
Peter T. Daniels
to the distinction? You're one of the prime responders to such things.)
Which is why Some People (ahem ahem) plaintively inquire, Is this
an old thread?
Madhu
Wrote on Thu, 6 Aug 2020 03:51:18 -0600:
you.
(I only started reading aue a couple of years ago. Many posters I
enjoyed reading stopped posting within a few months and the attrition
rate is still high. From your sig I suspected you may have been Quinn
posting under a new nym - for Quinn has also departed - but that was a
suspicion only from the sig)
Anders D. Nygaard
And I agree with PM that the symptoms seem to match the characteristics.
> Which is why Some People (ahem ahem) plaintively inquire, Is this
> an old thread?