The multiplication of 'multiple'

[Hibou]

I seem to hear 'multiple' a lot these days, especially from Americans,
in places where I'd expect 'several' or 'many'. This puzzles me - using
three syllables in place of two - could this be an instance of the
dreaded linguistic inflation? 'Multiple' also seems to me to be the
woolliest of these three woolly terms.

Google Ngram Viewer (search terms 'several times', 'many times', and
'multiple times') shows the 'multiple times' starting to become popular
in AmE from about 1990, in BrE about five years later. In 2019 (the
latest data available), 'multiple times' was about one sixth as frequent
as 'several times' in AmE, about one tenth as frequent in BrE. The
curves for 'multiple times' were rising.

Poor old 'several' and 'many'! If they don't watch out, they'll join so
many other words that are now on the dole.

[occam]

Not quite.

There is a hierarchy of the three non-numeric terms, in meaning if not
in frequency usage. In increasing order:

[One], a couple, few, several, multiple, many, dozen, dozens, loads,
truckloads, shitloads, ... zillions, gazillions

[Bertel Lund Hansen]

Den 03.10.2022 kl. 10.31 skrev Hibou:

> I seem to hear 'multiple' a lot these days, especially from Americans,
> in places where I'd expect 'several' or 'many'. This puzzles me - using
> three syllables in place of two - could this be an instance of the
> dreaded linguistic inflation?

I experienced a linguistic inflation some weeks ago. In a shop where i
had bought something with the help of a shop assistant, she wished me:

Have a fantastic day.

I found it unpleasant but was taken aback and just answered:

You too.

I wish that I had said:

Have a nice day.

which has become the standard phrase these days.

--
Bertel

[Bebercito]

The deflation could in turn have been unpleasant to her.

[Paul Carmichael]

El Mon, 03 Oct 2022 14:30:51 +0200, Bertel Lund Hansen escribió:

> I wish that I had said:
>
> Have a nice day.
>
> which has become the standard phrase these days.

OIA.

--
Paul.

https://paulc.es/elpatio

[Jerry Friedman]

One reason "multiple" is popular is that it includes two, which "several"
and "many" don't. Another reason is probably that doctors and police
officers, as seen on TV, like it. I prefer "more than one" or "two or more"
when the speaker doesn't know enough for a more precise word. Or
just a bare plural--"X was treated for multiple abrasions, contusions, and
lacerations" could be "X was treated for scrapes, bruises, and cuts."

Speaking of the dole, my latest pet American pronunciation peeve is
"multiple", "bulky", etc., pronounced with some kind of O vowel, so
"dull" becomes almost "doll" or "dole". Or maybe "dawl".

--
Jerry Friedman

[lar3ryca]

One I have been hearing a lot lately is "Have a nice rest of the day."

I am always tempted to retort with "Don't tell me what to do!"

--
“Rice is great if you’re really hungry and want to eat two thousand of
something.”
—Mitch Hedberg

[lar3ryca]

This morning I saw a TV 'news' article about a volunteer firefighter's
calendar produced by the firefighters in some southern US state.

One of the women being interviewed pronounced firefighter as "farfater",
the 'fater' part being pronounced (in my dialect) like 'father' without
the 'h'.

--
Deja Moo: The feeling that you've heard this bullshit before.

[Jerry Friedman]

On Monday, October 3, 2022 at 11:01:30 AM UTC-6, lar3ryca wrote:
> On 2022-10-03 09:52, Jerry Friedman wrote:

>... my latest pet American pronunciation peeve is

> > "multiple", "bulky", etc., pronounced with some kind of O vowel, so
> > "dull" becomes almost "doll" or "dole". Or maybe "dawl".

> This morning I saw a TV 'news' article about a volunteer firefighter's
> calendar produced by the firefighters in some southern US state.
>
> One of the women being interviewed pronounced firefighter as "farfater",
> the 'fater' part being pronounced (in my dialect) like 'father' without
> the 'h'.

That's just her accent. What I object to is people with accents like mine
changing pronunciations without my permission.

Of course, from your point of view, I have a southern accent.

--
Jerry Friedman

[Bebercito]

That pronunciation could induce an unfortunate confusion:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2gg3C1p5lHE&ab_channel=AWardTube

[Bebercito]

Le lundi 3 octobre 2022 à 18:56:04 UTC+2, lar3ryca a écrit :
> On 2022-10-03 06:30, Bertel Lund Hansen wrote:
> > Den 03.10.2022 kl. 10.31 skrev Hibou:
> >
> >> I seem to hear 'multiple' a lot these days, especially from Americans,
> >> in places where I'd expect 'several' or 'many'. This puzzles me -
> >> using three syllables in place of two - could this be an instance of
> >> the dreaded linguistic inflation?
> >
> > I experienced a linguistic inflation some weeks ago. In a shop where i
> > had bought something with the help of a shop assistant, she wished me:
> >
> > Have a fantastic day.
> >
> > I found it unpleasant but was taken aback and just answered:
> >
> > You too.
> >
> > I wish that I had said:
> >
> > Have a nice day.
> >
> > which has become the standard phrase these days.
> One I have been hearing a lot lately is "Have a nice rest of the day."

That one is clever, as some periods of the day are difficult to define,
(e.g. 11 am-12 pm is no longer morning and not yet afternoon and
5-6 pm no longer afternoon and not yet evening) and a lexical
dilemma is thus avoided.

[Bertel Lund Hansen]

Den 03.10.2022 kl. 18.55 skrev lar3ryca:

> One I have been hearing a lot lately is "Have a nice rest of the day."

A couple of years ago we were plagued with:

Have a continued nice day.[1]

The other peson has no way of knowing how my day had been so far.

[1] Maybe not idiomatic English. Danish:

Hav en fortsat god dag.

where "fortsat" =~ "set forth".

--
Bertel

[Sam Plusnet]

An opportunity to say:
"I'll stick with reality, if it's all the same to you."

--
Sam Plusnet

[Silvano]

occam hat am 03.10.2022 um 14:09 geschrieben:

> There is a hierarchy of the three non-numeric terms, in meaning if not
> in frequency usage. In increasing order:
>
> [One], a couple, few, several, multiple, many, dozen, dozens, loads,
> truckloads, shitloads, ... zillions, gazillions

Interesting. Could you be so kind and write your figures next to "a
couple", "few", "several" and so on?
"Dozen" is twelve, as we all know, so I'm very curious about that the
names between the obvious "one" and "dozen".

[lar3ryca]

On 2022-10-03 12:20, Stefan Ram wrote:

> Bebercito <bebe...@aol.com> writes:
>> That one is clever, as some periods of the day are difficult to define,
>> (e.g. 11 am-12 pm is no longer morning and not yet afternoon and
>> 5-6 pm no longer afternoon and not yet evening) and a lexical
>> dilemma is thus avoided.
>

> The wisdom of the World-Wide Web:
>
> |Parts of the Day
> |Morning 5 am to 12 pm
> |- Early morning 5 am to 8 am
> |- Late morning 11 am to 12 pm
> |Afternoon 12 pm to 5 pm
> |- Early afternoon 1 pm to 3 pm
> |- Late afternoon 4 pm to 5 pm
> |Evening 5 pm to 9 pm
> |- Early evening 5 pm to 7 pm
> |Night 9 pm to 4 am
> Quoted from the World-Wide Web.

All my computer stuff is configured for 24 hour representation.
I despise 12 hour representation, where 12 is ambiguous.

> Some regions also use "forenoon". Sometimes, you
> might be able to use "nearly noon". Some regions
> have "mid-morning" for times from 8:44 to 11:10 am.
>
> Gordon Lightfoot wrote specifically about the
> early morning rain.

--
If the grass looks greener on the other side of the fence,
you bet the water bill is higher there too!

[lar3ryca]

On 2022-10-03 11:21, Jerry Friedman wrote:
> On Monday, October 3, 2022 at 11:01:30 AM UTC-6, lar3ryca wrote:
>> On 2022-10-03 09:52, Jerry Friedman wrote:
>
>> ... my latest pet American pronunciation peeve is
>>> "multiple", "bulky", etc., pronounced with some kind of O vowel, so
>>> "dull" becomes almost "doll" or "dole". Or maybe "dawl".
>
>> This morning I saw a TV 'news' article about a volunteer firefighter's
>> calendar produced by the firefighters in some southern US state.
>>
>> One of the women being interviewed pronounced firefighter as "farfater",
>> the 'fater' part being pronounced (in my dialect) like 'father' without
>> the 'h'.
>
> That's just her accent. What I object to is people with accents like mine
> changing pronunciations without my permission.

Yes, I realize that was just her accent. But it was the first time I had
heard the pronunciation of 'fighter' (or fight). I usually hear a
southern US speaker saying what sounds like "fat", with a longer vowel,
like "faat"

> Of course, from your point of view, I have a southern accent.

--

[Snidely]

on 10/3/2022, Silvano supposed :

Couple == approximately two
several == approximately between 1 and 20
few == less than many
many == more than few, often significantly more

Is that enough precision for you?

/dps

--
You could try being nicer and politer
> instead, and see how that works out.
-- Katy Jennison

[Snidely]

Stefan Ram asserted that:

> lar3ryca <la...@invalid.ca> writes:
>> All my computer stuff is configured for 24 hour representation.
>

> I second that, and I also have instructed my computer
> to ignore "daylight saving". For my own purposes,
> I use "non-daylight-saving" time all year round.

Why not just UTC?

/dps

--
Maybe C282Y is simply one of the hangers-on, a groupie following a
future guitar god of the human genome: an allele with undiscovered
virtuosity, currently soloing in obscurity in Mom's garage.
Bradley Wertheim, theAtlantic.com, Jan 10 2013

[Snidely]

After serious thinking Sam Plusnet wrote :

Well, sure, if you want to make Scrooge sound jolly.

/dps

--
Rule #0: Don't be on fire.
In case of fire, exit the building before tweeting about it.
(Sighting reported by Adam F)

[Sam Plusnet]

On 03-Oct-22 21:45, Snidely wrote:
> After serious thinking Sam Plusnet wrote :
>> On 03-Oct-22 13:30, Bertel Lund Hansen wrote:
>>> Den 03.10.2022 kl. 10.31 skrev Hibou:
>>>
>>>> I seem to hear 'multiple' a lot these days, especially from
>>>> Americans, in places where I'd expect 'several' or 'many'. This
>>>> puzzles me - using three syllables in place of two - could this be
>>>> an instance of the dreaded linguistic inflation?
>>>
>>> I experienced a linguistic inflation some weeks ago. In a shop where
>>> i had bought something with the help of a shop assistant, she wished me:
>>>
>>>        Have a fantastic day.
>>>
>>> I found it unpleasant but was taken aback and just answered:
>>>
>>>        You too.
>>>
>>> I wish that I had said:
>>>
>>>        Have a nice day.
>>>
>>> which has become the standard phrase these days.
>>>
>> An opportunity to say:
>> "I'll stick with reality, if it's all the same to you."
>
> Well, sure, if you want to make Scrooge sound jolly.

How about "Thanks, but I have other plans."?

--
Sam Plusnet

[lar3ryca]

On 2022-10-03 14:24, Stefan Ram wrote:

> lar3ryca <la...@invalid.ca> writes:
>> All my computer stuff is configured for 24 hour representation.
>

> I second that, and I also have instructed my computer
> to ignore "daylight saving". For my own purposes,
> I use "non-daylight-saving" time all year round.

So do I, but in my case, it's because Saskatchewan does not change
times. Central Standard Time all year long.

--
I am the Ghost of Christmas Future Imperfect Conditional.
I bring news of what would have been going to happen if
you were not to have been going to change your ways.

[bil...@shaw.ca]

In most cases, such greetings from people who work in shops are probably
a requirement of their employment. It might be kinder to ignore them or
say "Thanks, bye now" or some such thing rather than reacting with anger
or sarcasm because of something they have no control over.

bill

[Paul Wolff]

On Mon, 3 Oct 2022, at 14:41:23, bil...@shaw.ca posted:

If I'm not lost elsewhere in my thoughts, I'll often pause and say
something like "And you too" on my way out. There's no gain in being
rude to them, when they're trying to be nice and to follow standing
orders at the same time.
--
Paul

[Sam Plusnet]

Well quite. I wasn't suggesting that these were real-world answers, I
have far too much sympathy for their plight.

That said, I prefer to to be offered this sort of comment (if I _must_
hear it) by an assistant who can't quite manage to make it sound like a
genuine wish.
I know it's false, the person saying it knows that it's false, but the
nonsense is wished on us both by outside forces.

Being able to fake sincerity is probably a much sought after skill, but
it's not one I admire.

--
Sam Plusnet

[Peter Moylan]

On 04/10/22 03:55, lar3ryca wrote:
> On 2022-10-03 06:30, Bertel Lund Hansen wrote:
>> Den 03.10.2022 kl. 10.31 skrev Hibou:
>>
>>> I seem to hear 'multiple' a lot these days, especially from
>>> Americans, in places where I'd expect 'several' or 'many'. This
>>> puzzles me - using three syllables in place of two - could this
>>> be an instance of the dreaded linguistic inflation?
>>
>> I experienced a linguistic inflation some weeks ago. In a shop
>> where i had bought something with the help of a shop assistant, she
>> wished me:
>>
>> Have a fantastic day.

A good response to that is "May you live in interesting times".

>> I found it unpleasant but was taken aback and just answered:
>>
>> You too.
>>
>> I wish that I had said:
>>
>> Have a nice day.
>>
>> which has become the standard phrase these days.
>
> One I have been hearing a lot lately is "Have a nice rest of the
> day."
>
> I am always tempted to retort with "Don't tell me what to do!"

You might have heard of the Irish greeting "The top of the morning to
you". One way of responding to that is "And the rest of the day to you".

--
Peter Moylan Newcastle, NSW http://www.pmoylan.org

[Peter Moylan]

On 04/10/22 07:45, Snidely wrote:
> After serious thinking Sam Plusnet wrote :
>> On 03-Oct-22 13:30, Bertel Lund Hansen wrote:
>>> Den 03.10.2022 kl. 10.31 skrev Hibou:
>>>
>>>> I seem to hear 'multiple' a lot these days, especially from
>>>> Americans, in places where I'd expect 'several' or 'many'. This
>>>> puzzles me - using three syllables in place of two - could
>>>> this be an instance of the dreaded linguistic inflation?
>>>
>>> I experienced a linguistic inflation some weeks ago. In a shop
>>> where i had bought something with the help of a shop assistant,
>>> she wished me:
>>>
>>> Have a fantastic day.
>>>
>>> I found it unpleasant but was taken aback and just answered:
>>>
>>> You too.
>>>
>>> I wish that I had said:
>>>
>>> Have a nice day.
>>>
>>> which has become the standard phrase these days.
>>>
>> An opportunity to say: "I'll stick with reality, if it's all the
>> same to you."
>
> Well, sure, if you want to make Scrooge sound jolly.

A person who says "Have a fantastic day" is probably unaware of the
literal meaning of "fantastic".

Or is aware of it, and is secretly cursing you.

[Bertel Lund Hansen]

Den 03.10.2022 kl. 22.42 skrev Snidely:

> Is that enough precision for you?

Could you be so kind to define "enough"?

--
Bertel

[Bertel Lund Hansen]

Den 03.10.2022 kl. 22.45 skrev Snidely:

>>>        Have a fantastic day.

>> An opportunity to say:
>> "I'll stick with reality, if it's all the same to you."

> Well, sure, if you want to make Scrooge sound jolly.

I can top that with the answer:

How?

--
Bertel

[Bertel Lund Hansen]

Den 03.10.2022 kl. 23.41 skrev bil...@shaw.ca:

> In most cases, such greetings from people who work in shops are probably
> a requirement of their employment.

I doubt very much that the specific greeting is specified by their
employer. I am sure that they are required to act politely and friendly
towards customers.

--
Bertel

[Bertel Lund Hansen]

Den 04.10.2022 kl. 02.03 skrev Sam Plusnet:

> I know it's false, the person saying it knows that it's false, but the
> nonsense is wished on us both by outside forces.

A standard greeting is not false. It is a formula used to signal that
the sender is a polite person, and the receiver answers with a similar
fixed formula with the same meaning.

It is only when people start designing their UNIQUE greeting that
attention is called to what ought not to attract any.

--
Bertel

[Richard Heathfield]

Sufficient; all that is required, needed, or appropriate.

--
Richard Heathfield
Email: rjh at cpax dot org dot uk
"Usenet is a strange place" - dmr 29 July 1999
Sig line 4 vacant - apply within

[Peter Moylan]

On 04/10/22 11:03, Sam Plusnet wrote:

> I know it's false, the person saying it knows that it's false, but the
> nonsense is wished on us both by outside forces.
>
> Being able to fake sincerity is probably a much sought after skill, but
> it's not one I admire.

What the world needs is honesty. If you can fake that, you've got it made.

[Hibou]

Le 03/10/2022 à 13:09, occam a écrit :

> On 03/10/2022 10:31, Hibou wrote:
>>
>> Poor old 'several' and 'many'! If they don't watch out, they'll join so
>> many other words that are now on the dole.
>

> Not quite.

>
> There is a hierarchy of the three non-numeric terms, in meaning if not
> in frequency usage. In increasing order:
>
> [One], a couple, few, several, multiple, many, dozen, dozens, loads,
> truckloads, shitloads, ... zillions, gazillions

I don't think that works. As Jerry has pointed out, 'multiple' means
more than one, so it's both more and fewer than 'several', and overlaps
'many' etc.. Also, GNV shows this usage to be recent, since about 1990,
so something has changed.

[Hibou]

Le 03/10/2022 à 16:52, Jerry Friedman a écrit :
> On Monday, October 3, 2022 at 2:31:19 AM UTC-6, Hibou wrote:

>> I seem to hear 'multiple' a lot these days, especially from Americans,
>> in places where I'd expect 'several' or 'many'. This puzzles me - using
>> three syllables in place of two - could this be an instance of the

>> dreaded linguistic inflation? 'Multiple' also seems to me to be the
>> woolliest of these three woolly terms.
>>
>> Google Ngram Viewer (search terms 'several times', 'many times', and
>> 'multiple times') shows the 'multiple times' starting to become popular
>> in AmE from about 1990, in BrE about five years later. In 2019 (the
>> latest data available), 'multiple times' was about one sixth as frequent
>> as 'several times' in AmE, about one tenth as frequent in BrE. The
>> curves for 'multiple times' were rising.
>>

>> Poor old 'several' and 'many'! If they don't watch out, they'll join so
>> many other words that are now on the dole.
>

> One reason "multiple" is popular is that it includes two, which "several"
> and "many" don't.

On at least some of the occasions when I've heard it, I think the
reality was a definite number, of which the speaker had some idea, and
certainly would if it were only two. In that case, 'multiple times'
seems even more laboured. Why not just say 'twice'?

> Another reason is probably that doctors and police
> officers, as seen on TV, like it. I prefer "more than one" or "two or more"
> when the speaker doesn't know enough for a more precise word. Or
> just a bare plural--"X was treated for multiple abrasions, contusions, and

> lacerations" could be "X was treated for scrapes, bruises, and cuts." [...]

Yes, better to omit the word.

[Richard Heathfield]

On 03/10/2022 4:52 pm, Jerry Friedman wrote:

<snip>

> One reason "multiple" is popular is that it includes two, which "several"

> and "many" don't. Another reason is probably that doctors and police

> officers, as seen on TV, like it. I prefer "more than one" or "two or more"
> when the speaker doesn't know enough for a more precise word. Or
> just a bare plural--"X was treated for multiple abrasions, contusions, and
> lacerations" could be "X was treated for scrapes, bruises, and cuts."

Or just:

"Four survivors have been taken to the city hospital with multiple."

Once you know they've got multiple, you really do know all you
need to know. It doesn't get much worse than multiple.

[Snidely]

Bertel Lund Hansen formulated the question :

> Den 03.10.2022 kl. 22.42 skrev Snidely:
>
>> Is that enough precision for you?
>
> Could you be so kind to define "enough"?

Better that you should define it.

/dps

--
"That’s where I end with this kind of conversation: Language is
crucial, and yet not the answer."
Jonathan Rosa, sociocultural and linguistic anthropologist,
Stanford.,2020

[Bertel Lund Hansen]

Den 04.10.2022 kl. 07.52 skrev Snidely:

>> Could you be so kind to define "enough"?

> Better that you should define it.

It was a joke because some words do not have a precise meaning and a
'definition' will be a fuzzy answer.

--
Bertel

[Snidely]

On Monday, Bertel Lund Hansen exclaimed wildly:

As long as it's warm.

/dps


--
"Inviting people to laugh with you while you are laughing at yourself
is a good thing to do, You may be a fool but you're the fool in
charge." -- Carl Reiner

[Silvano]

Snidely hat am 03.10.2022 um 22:42 geschrieben:

> on 10/3/2022, Silvano supposed :
>> occam hat am 03.10.2022 um 14:09 geschrieben:
>>> There is a hierarchy of the three non-numeric terms, in meaning if not
>>> in frequency usage. In increasing order:
>>>
>>> [One], a couple, few, several, multiple, many, dozen, dozens, loads,
>>> truckloads, shitloads, ... zillions, gazillions
>>
>>
>> Interesting. Could you be so kind and write your figures next to "a
>> couple", "few", "several" and so on?
>> "Dozen" is twelve, as we all know, so I'm very curious about that the
>> names between the obvious "one" and "dozen".
>
> Couple == approximately two
> several == approximately between 1 and 20
> few == less than many
> many == more than few, often significantly more
>
> Is that enough precision for you?

More or less. In particular, "many" means to me definitely more than a
dozen and could even be more than dozens when it means "significantly
more than few", as you explain.
That's why I questioned the statement about the increasing order.
Also, I'm not sure about the place of "multiple". Perhaps 5 to 11?

[Adam Funk]

On 2022-10-03, Snidely wrote:

> on 10/3/2022, Silvano supposed :
>> occam hat am 03.10.2022 um 14:09 geschrieben:
>>> There is a hierarchy of the three non-numeric terms, in meaning if not
>>> in frequency usage. In increasing order:
>>>
>>> [One], a couple, few, several, multiple, many, dozen, dozens, loads,
>>> truckloads, shitloads, ... zillions, gazillions
>>
>>
>> Interesting. Could you be so kind and write your figures next to "a
>> couple", "few", "several" and so on?
>> "Dozen" is twelve, as we all know, so I'm very curious about that the
>> names between the obvious "one" and "dozen".
>
> Couple == approximately two

(I can't remember where I saw this.)

"I asked my mother what 'a couple' meant. She said 'two or three'. I
wonder now if that had anything to do with the divorce."

> several == approximately between 1 and 20
> few == less than many
> many == more than few, often significantly more
>
> Is that enough precision for you?
>
> /dps
>


--

Apparently I lack some particular perversion which today's
employer is seeking. ---Ignatius J Reilly

[Adam Funk]

On 2022-10-03, Jerry Friedman wrote:

> On Monday, October 3, 2022 at 11:01:30 AM UTC-6, lar3ryca wrote:
>> On 2022-10-03 09:52, Jerry Friedman wrote:
>
>>... my latest pet American pronunciation peeve is
>> > "multiple", "bulky", etc., pronounced with some kind of O vowel, so
>> > "dull" becomes almost "doll" or "dole". Or maybe "dawl".
>
>> This morning I saw a TV 'news' article about a volunteer firefighter's
>> calendar produced by the firefighters in some southern US state.
>>
>> One of the women being interviewed pronounced firefighter as "farfater",
>> the 'fater' part being pronounced (in my dialect) like 'father' without
>> the 'h'.
>
> That's just her accent. What I object to is people with accents like mine
> changing pronunciations without my permission.

Ha!

> Of course, from your point of view, I have a southern accent.
>


--

rise to claim Saturn, ring and sky

[Bertel Lund Hansen]

Den 04.10.2022 kl. 11.41 skrev Adam Funk:

> "I asked my mother what 'a couple' meant. She said 'two or three'. I
> wonder now if that had anything to do with the divorce."

I thought that three was a crowd?

--
Bertel

[occam]

On 04/10/2022 11:41, Adam Funk wrote:
> On 2022-10-03, Snidely wrote:
>
>> on 10/3/2022, Silvano supposed :
>>> occam hat am 03.10.2022 um 14:09 geschrieben:
>>>> There is a hierarchy of the three non-numeric terms, in meaning if not
>>>> in frequency usage. In increasing order:
>>>>
>>>> [One], a couple, few, several, multiple, many, dozen, dozens, loads,
>>>> truckloads, shitloads, ... zillions, gazillions
>>>
>>>
>>> Interesting. Could you be so kind and write your figures next to "a
>>> couple", "few", "several" and so on?
>>> "Dozen" is twelve, as we all know, so I'm very curious about that the
>>> names between the obvious "one" and "dozen".
>>
>> Couple == approximately two
>
> (I can't remember where I saw this.)
>
> "I asked my mother what 'a couple' meant. She said 'two or three'. I
> wonder now if that had anything to do with the divorce."
>
>

<smile> This chimes with the statement made by princess Diana: "there
are three of us in this marriage"

(My apologies, I have been re-watching the Crown on Netflix.)

[Quinn C]

* Snidely:

> On Monday, Bertel Lund Hansen exclaimed wildly:
>> Den 04.10.2022 kl. 07.52 skrev Snidely:
>>
>>>> Could you be so kind to define "enough"?
>>
>>> Better that you should define it.
>>
>> It was a joke because some words do not have a precise meaning and a
>> 'definition' will be a fuzzy answer.
>
> As long as it's warm.

Don't sweater it.

--
Doctor: If you were human, I'd say you had a severe panic attack.
Tuvok: I am not human.
Doctor: No kidding.
-- Star Trek: Voyager S03E02

[Quinn C]

* Silvano:

"Many" definitely depends on expectations - five sardines aren't many
but five blue whales may be.

"Multiple" also has a bit of that aspect to me: it stresses that there's
several where you'd only expect one at most.

--
... speaking the right words might not make you a good person,
but the wrong ones have real and destructive consequences.
-- Philip Sayers, The Walrus, Jan. 2020

[HVS]

On 03 Oct 2022, lar3ryca wrote

> On 2022-10-03 12:20, Stefan Ram wrote:
>> Bebercito <bebe...@aol.com> writes:
>>> That one is clever, as some periods of the day are difficult to
>>> define, (e.g. 11 am-12 pm is no longer morning and not yet
>>> afternoon and 5-6 pm no longer afternoon and not yet evening)
>>> and a lexical dilemma is thus avoided.
>>
>> The wisdom of the World-Wide Web:
>>
>>> Parts of the Day
>>> Morning 5 am to 12 pm
>>> - Early morning 5 am to 8 am
>>> - Late morning 11 am to 12 pm
>>> Afternoon 12 pm to 5 pm
>>> - Early afternoon 1 pm to 3 pm
>>> - Late afternoon 4 pm to 5 pm
>>> Evening 5 pm to 9 pm
>>> - Early evening 5 pm to 7 pm
>>> Night 9 pm to 4 am
>> Quoted from the World-Wide Web.

>
> All my computer stuff is configured for 24 hour representation.

> I despise 12 hour representation, where 12 is ambiguous.

I use 24-hour time, but I don't mind that much if someone wants to
use am/pm notation. As you say, 12 am/pm is annoyingly ambiguous --
the answer to that is to use "12 noon" and "12 midnight", but my
impression is that only a minority of am/pm people do that.

What reeeallly gets on my tits is when four-digit notation is used
for am/pm times. I recall having a boarding pass for a WestJet flight
from Vancouver a few years ago that showed the departure time as
"06:45 pm".

--
Cheers, Harvey

[Peter Moylan]

On 04/10/22 23:27, HVS wrote:

> I use 24-hour time, but I don't mind that much if someone wants to
> use am/pm notation. As you say, 12 am/pm is annoyingly ambiguous --
> the answer to that is to use "12 noon" and "12 midnight", but my
> impression is that only a minority of am/pm people do that.

In my experience, the train and bus people tend to duck that problem by
listing departure times as 11:59 am or 11:59 pm. Not as good as using
24-hour notation, as all the airlines do, but a partial solution.

Unfortunately many other people tend to use "12 pm" instead of "noon",
and that annoys me because my natural instinct is to interpret 12 pm as
midnight, the time that is both 12 hours post meridiem and 12 hours ante
meridiem. If instead they wrote "0 pm" for noon, I could live with that.

[HVS]

On 04 Oct 2022, Peter Moylan wrote

> On 04/10/22 23:27, HVS wrote:
>
>> I use 24-hour time, but I don't mind that much if someone wants
>> to use am/pm notation. As you say, 12 am/pm is annoyingly
>> ambiguous -- the answer to that is to use "12 noon" and "12
>> midnight", but my impression is that only a minority of am/pm
>> people do that.
>
> In my experience, the train and bus people tend to duck that
> problem by listing departure times as 11:59 am or 11:59 pm. Not as
> good as using 24-hour notation, as all the airlines do,

That's presumably why it's stuck with me with the WestJet flight
info: an airline listing a time as "06:45 pm" seemed deeply weird.

I think it was on the boarding pass itself -- it was one of those
that you download and print before arriving at the airport -- but it
may have been in the accompanying reminder notes of the itinerary.
Whichever it was, it was bizarre seeing it in information from an
airline.

[CDB]

On 10/3/2022 8:30 AM, Bertel Lund Hansen wrote:
> Hibou:

>> I seem to hear 'multiple' a lot these days, especially from
>> Americans, in places where I'd expect 'several' or 'many'. This
>> puzzles me - using three syllables in place of two - could this be
>> an instance of the dreaded linguistic inflation?

> I experienced a linguistic inflation some weeks ago. In a shop where
> i had bought something with the help of a shop assistant, she wished
> me:

> Have a fantastic day.

> I found it unpleasant but was taken aback and just answered:

> You too.
>
> I wish that I had said:

> Have a nice day.

> which has become the standard phrase these days.

"Thank you. I'm sure it'll be incredible."

[CDB]

On 10/3/2022 2:20 PM, Stefan Ram wrote:
> Bebercito <bebe...@aol.com> writes:

>> That one is clever, as some periods of the day are difficult to
>> define, (e.g. 11 am-12 pm is no longer morning and not yet
>> afternoon and 5-6 pm no longer afternoon and not yet evening) and a
>> lexical dilemma is thus avoided.

> The wisdom of the World-Wide Web:

> |Parts of the Day |Morning 5 am to 12 pm |- Early morning
> 5 am to 8 am |- Late morning 11 am to 12 pm |Afternoon
> 12 pm to 5 pm |- Early afternoon 1 pm to 3 pm |- Late afternoon
> 4 pm to 5 pm |Evening 5 pm to 9 pm |- Early evening
> 5 pm to 7 pm |Night 9 pm to 4 am Quoted from the
> World-Wide Web.

> Some regions also use "forenoon". Sometimes, you might be able to use
> "nearly noon". Some regions have "mid-morning" for times from 8:44 to
> 11:10 am.

> Gordon Lightfoot wrote specifically about the early morning rain.

Early morning in airports has a particular quality. For some reason it
has usually rained enough to wet the tarmac; the sun is hidden below the
horizon, inhabiting low thin clouds, filling sky and earth with a clear
and empty light.

[Jerry Friedman]

I agree, though I suspect in some cases that they're specifically told to
offer a wish of the "Have a" type.

Yesterday the guy who made me a sandwich told me to have an
amazing day.

By the way, in my English you can't use "friendly" (or "lovely", "ugly",
etc.) as an adverb. I might say "be polite and friendly", or if that sounds
like actual friendliness, "be polite and act friendly".

--
Jerry Friedman

[CDB]

On 10/3/2022 11:38 PM, Bertel Lund Hansen wrote:
> Snidely:

>>>> Have a fantastic day.

>>> An opportunity to say: "I'll stick with reality, if it's all the
>>> same to you."

>> Well, sure, if you want to make Scrooge sound jolly.

> I can top that with the answer:

> How?

Oh, I'm so sorry. I didn't realise you were an indigenous person.

[CDB]

On 10/3/2022 11:31 PM, Bertel Lund Hansen wrote:
> Snidely:

>> Is that enough precision for you?

> Could you be so kind to define "enough"?

Enough, or too much.

[Tony Cooper]

On Tue, 4 Oct 2022 06:42:41 -0700 (PDT), Jerry Friedman
<jerry_f...@yahoo.com> wrote:

>On Monday, October 3, 2022 at 9:40:36 PM UTC-6, Bertel Lund Hansen wrote:
>> Den 03.10.2022 kl. 23.41 skrev bil...@shaw.ca:
>>
>> > In most cases, such greetings from people who work in shops are probably
>> > a requirement of their employment.
>
>> I doubt very much that the specific greeting is specified by their
>> employer. I am sure that they are required to act politely and friendly
>> towards customers.
>
>I agree, though I suspect in some cases that they're specifically told to
>offer a wish of the "Have a" type.
>
>Yesterday the guy who made me a sandwich told me to have an
>amazing day.

I frequently hear "Have a blessed day".

>
>By the way, in my English you can't use "friendly" (or "lovely", "ugly",
>etc.) as an adverb. I might say "be polite and friendly", or if that sounds
>like actual friendliness, "be polite and act friendly".
--

Tony Cooper - Orlando Florida

I read and post to this group as a form of entertainment.

[Bertel Lund Hansen]

Den 04.10.2022 kl. 15.42 skrev Jerry Friedman:

> I agree, though I suspect in some cases that they're specifically told to
> offer a wish of the "Have a" type.

I don't think that that is the case in Denmark, but I have neither
specific knowledge nor experience with such instructions. If I were to
become part of the management for a company, I wouldn't even consider
telling the staff how to speak to customers.

--
Bertel

[Bertel Lund Hansen]

Den 04.10.2022 kl. 15.42 skrev Jerry Friedman:

> I agree, though I suspect in some cases that they're specifically told to
> offer a wish of the "Have a" type.

I might add that the form "Hav en X dag" is relatively new in Denmark. I
still use "farvel" if I initiate the goodbies/goodbyes/goodbye's ???.
That's what I grew up with.

The dictionary doesn't think that one needs a plural of "goodbye". How
would you write it?

--
Bertel

[Laura Spira]

On Monday, 3 October 2022 at 23:34:52 UTC+1, Paul Wolff wrote:
> On Mon, 3 Oct 2022, at 14:41:23, bil...@shaw.ca posted:
> >On Monday, October 3, 2022 at 2:14:50 PM UTC-7, Sam Plusnet wrote:
> >> On 03-Oct-22 21:45, Snidely wrote:
> >> > After serious thinking Sam Plusnet wrote :
> >> >> On 03-Oct-22 13:30, Bertel Lund Hansen wrote:

> >> >>> Den 03.10.2022 kl. 10.31 skrev Hibou:
> >> >>>
> >> >>>> I seem to hear 'multiple' a lot these days, especially from
> >> >>>> Americans, in places where I'd expect 'several' or 'many'. This
> >> >>>> puzzles me - using three syllables in place of two - could this be
> >> >>>> an instance of the dreaded linguistic inflation?
> >> >>>
> >> >>> I experienced a linguistic inflation some weeks ago. In a shop where
> >> >>> i had bought something with the help of a shop assistant, she wished me:
> >> >>>
> >> >>> Have a fantastic day.
> >> >>>
> >> >>> I found it unpleasant but was taken aback and just answered:
> >> >>>
> >> >>> You too.
> >> >>>
> >> >>> I wish that I had said:
> >> >>>
> >> >>> Have a nice day.
> >> >>>
> >> >>> which has become the standard phrase these days.
> >> >>>

> >> >> An opportunity to say:
> >> >> "I'll stick with reality, if it's all the same to you."
> >> >
> >> > Well, sure, if you want to make Scrooge sound jolly.
> >

> >> How about "Thanks, but I have other plans."?

> >>
> >In most cases, such greetings from people who work in shops are probably

> >a requirement of their employment. It might be kinder to ignore them or
> >say "Thanks, bye now" or some such thing rather than reacting with anger
> >or sarcasm because of something they have no control over.
> >
> If I'm not lost elsewhere in my thoughts, I'll often pause and say
> something like "And you too" on my way out. There's no gain in being
> rude to them, when they're trying to be nice and to follow standing
> orders at the same time.
> --
> Paul

[Laura Spira]

A smile is good enough, no need for words.

(I'm smiling at everyone, just passing through)

[Ken Blake]

On Tue, 04 Oct 2022 14:04:50 +0100, HVS <off...@REMOVETHISwhhvs.co.uk>
wrote:

>On 04 Oct 2022, Peter Moylan wrote
>
>> On 04/10/22 23:27, HVS wrote:
>>
>>> I use 24-hour time, but I don't mind that much if someone wants
>>> to use am/pm notation. As you say, 12 am/pm is annoyingly
>>> ambiguous -- the answer to that is to use "12 noon" and "12
>>> midnight", but my impression is that only a minority of am/pm
>>> people do that.
>>
>> In my experience, the train and bus people tend to duck that
>> problem by listing departure times as 11:59 am or 11:59 pm. Not as
>> good as using 24-hour notation, as all the airlines do,
>
>That's presumably why it's stuck with me with the WestJet flight
>info: an airline listing a time as "06:45 pm" seemed deeply weird.

Sorry, I'm missing your point. What's "deeply weird" about that. Is it
"06," instead of just "6"?

If that's what you mean, I don't find it weird at all. It's just being
consistent and using two-digit hours.

[Jerry Friedman]

"Goodbyes", though I prefer "good-byes". Those are both in the American
Heritage Dictionary. I haven't checked any others, but what dictionary are
you using?

--
Jerry Friedman

[CDB]

On 10/4/2022 10:54 AM, Laura Spira wrote:

> A smile is good enough, no need for words.

> (I'm smiling at everyone, just passing through)

I note that your first posting was a false start, and remind you
respectfully that practice makes perfect.

[Jerry Friedman]

On Tuesday, October 4, 2022 at 7:46:00 AM UTC-6, Tony Cooper wrote:
> On Tue, 4 Oct 2022 06:42:41 -0700 (PDT), Jerry Friedman
> <jerry_f...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> >On Monday, October 3, 2022 at 9:40:36 PM UTC-6, Bertel Lund Hansen wrote:
> >> Den 03.10.2022 kl. 23.41 skrev bil...@shaw.ca:
> >>
> >> > In most cases, such greetings from people who work in shops are probably
> >> > a requirement of their employment.
> >
> >> I doubt very much that the specific greeting is specified by their
> >> employer. I am sure that they are required to act politely and friendly
> >> towards customers.
> >
> >I agree, though I suspect in some cases that they're specifically told to
> >offer a wish of the "Have a" type.
> >
> >Yesterday the guy who made me a sandwich told me to have an
> >amazing day.

> I frequently hear "Have a blessed day".

Me too.

I forgot to mention that the sandwich guy then corrected himself with
something like "Night, now." On which subject, I find "Have a good rest
of your day" pedantic. That "rest of" makes me restive.

--
Jerry Friedman

[Jerry Friedman]

On Tuesday, October 4, 2022 at 8:54:55 AM UTC-6, Laura Spira wrote:
> A smile is good enough, no need for words.
>
> (I'm smiling at everyone, just passing through)

*smile*

--
Jerry Friedman

[Ken Blake]

On Tue, 4 Oct 2022 11:40:39 +0200, Silvano
<Sil...@noncisonopernessuno.it> wrote:

>Snidely hat am 03.10.2022 um 22:42 geschrieben:
>> on 10/3/2022, Silvano supposed :
>>> occam hat am 03.10.2022 um 14:09 geschrieben:
>>>> There is a hierarchy of the three non-numeric terms, in meaning if not
>>>> in frequency usage. In increasing order:
>>>>
>>>> [One], a couple, few, several, multiple, many, dozen, dozens, loads,
>>>> truckloads, shitloads, ... zillions, gazillions
>>>
>>>
>>> Interesting. Could you be so kind and write your figures next to "a
>>> couple", "few", "several" and so on?
>>> "Dozen" is twelve, as we all know, so I'm very curious about that the
>>> names between the obvious "one" and "dozen".
>>
>> Couple == approximately two
>> several == approximately between 1 and 20
>> few == less than many
>> many == more than few, often significantly more
>>
>> Is that enough precision for you?
>
>More or less. In particular, "many" means to me definitely more than a
>dozen and could even be more than dozens when it means "significantly
>more than few", as you explain.

As far as I'm concerned, what "many" means depends on the context.

"The host served many courses for dinner." Less than a dozen

"There are many people who live in Europe." Way more than a dozen.

[Ken Blake]

Far too many for me. That's five more than I would want.

>but five blue whales may be.

I might sometimes want them, but I'm not that hungry now.

[Ken Blake]

On Mon, 3 Oct 2022 23:32:33 +0100, Paul Wolff
<boun...@thiswontwork.wolff.co.uk> wrote:

>On Mon, 3 Oct 2022, at 14:41:23, bil...@shaw.ca posted:
>>On Monday, October 3, 2022 at 2:14:50 PM UTC-7, Sam Plusnet wrote:
>>> On 03-Oct-22 21:45, Snidely wrote:
>>> > After serious thinking Sam Plusnet wrote :
>>> >> On 03-Oct-22 13:30, Bertel Lund Hansen wrote:
>>> >>> Den 03.10.2022 kl. 10.31 skrev Hibou:
>>> >>>
>>> >>>> I seem to hear 'multiple' a lot these days, especially from
>>> >>>> Americans, in places where I'd expect 'several' or 'many'. This
>>> >>>> puzzles me - using three syllables in place of two - could this be
>>> >>>> an instance of the dreaded linguistic inflation?
>>> >>>
>>> >>> I experienced a linguistic inflation some weeks ago. In a shop where
>>> >>> i had bought something with the help of a shop assistant, she wished me:
>>> >>>
>>> >>> Have a fantastic day.
>>> >>>
>>> >>> I found it unpleasant but was taken aback and just answered:
>>> >>>
>>> >>> You too.
>>> >>>
>>> >>> I wish that I had said:
>>> >>>
>>> >>> Have a nice day.
>>> >>>
>>> >>> which has become the standard phrase these days.
>>> >>>
>>> >> An opportunity to say:
>>> >> "I'll stick with reality, if it's all the same to you."
>>> >
>>> > Well, sure, if you want to make Scrooge sound jolly.
>>
>>> How about "Thanks, but I have other plans."?
>>>

>>In most cases, such greetings from people who work in shops are probably

>>a requirement of their employment. It might be kinder to ignore them or
>>say "Thanks, bye now" or some such thing rather than reacting with anger
>>or sarcasm because of something they have no control over.
>>
>If I'm not lost elsewhere in my thoughts, I'll often pause and say
>something like "And you too" on my way out. There's no gain in being
>rude to them, when they're trying to be nice and to follow standing
>orders at the same time.

Yes. Statements like "Have a nice day" and "And you too" have no real
meaning. They are just stock phrase of politeness, not very different
from "Good Morning," "Goodbye," "Hello, "Thank you," "You're welcome,"
etc.

[Ken Blake]

On Tue, 4 Oct 2022 05:43:15 +0200, Bertel Lund Hansen
<gade...@lundhansen.dk> wrote:

>Den 04.10.2022 kl. 02.03 skrev Sam Plusnet:
>
>> I know it's false, the person saying it knows that it's false, but the
>> nonsense is wished on us both by outside forces.
>
>A standard greeting is not false. It is a formula used to signal that
>the sender is a polite person, and the receiver answers with a similar
>fixed formula with the same meaning.


Yes, that's much the same thing that I just said in another message,
but you said it slightly differently from the way I said it.

[Ken Blake]

On Tue, 4 Oct 2022 06:42:41 -0700 (PDT), Jerry Friedman
<jerry_f...@yahoo.com> wrote:

>On Monday, October 3, 2022 at 9:40:36 PM UTC-6, Bertel Lund Hansen wrote:
>> Den 03.10.2022 kl. 23.41 skrev bil...@shaw.ca:
>>
>> > In most cases, such greetings from people who work in shops are probably
>> > a requirement of their employment.
>
>> I doubt very much that the specific greeting is specified by their
>> employer. I am sure that they are required to act politely and friendly
>> towards customers.
>
>I agree, though I suspect in some cases that they're specifically told to
>offer a wish of the "Have a" type.
>
>Yesterday the guy who made me a sandwich told me to have an
>amazing day.

Did you reply "Have a BLT"?

[Tony Cooper]

On Tue, 04 Oct 2022 08:20:08 -0700, Ken Blake <K...@invalid.news.com>
wrote:

While that might be said, "The host served several courses for dinner"
would be the more common phrasing.

>
>"There are many people who live in Europe." Way more than a dozen.

That seems unfinished. With those words at the beginning of the
sentence, I'd expect "who..." to follow.

[Ken Blake]

On Tue, 04 Oct 2022 09:45:54 -0400, Tony Cooper
<tonyco...@gmail.com> wrote:

>On Tue, 4 Oct 2022 06:42:41 -0700 (PDT), Jerry Friedman
><jerry_f...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>>On Monday, October 3, 2022 at 9:40:36 PM UTC-6, Bertel Lund Hansen wrote:
>>> Den 03.10.2022 kl. 23.41 skrev bil...@shaw.ca:
>>>
>>> > In most cases, such greetings from people who work in shops are probably
>>> > a requirement of their employment.
>>
>>> I doubt very much that the specific greeting is specified by their
>>> employer. I am sure that they are required to act politely and friendly
>>> towards customers.
>>
>>I agree, though I suspect in some cases that they're specifically told to
>>offer a wish of the "Have a" type.
>>
>>Yesterday the guy who made me a sandwich told me to have an
>>amazing day.
>
>I frequently hear "Have a blessed day".

If I've ever heard that, it's been seldom. If someone said that to me,
I wouldn't respond, even though I'd understand that he was just trying
to be polite. It would turn me off; I don't want to be blessed.

[Paul Wolff]

On Tue, 4 Oct 2022, at 11:14:49, CDB posted:

>On 10/4/2022 10:54 AM, Laura Spira wrote:
>
>> A smile is good enough, no need for words.
>
>> (I'm smiling at everyone, just passing through)

I'm close enough to wave back friendlily.

>
>I note that your first posting was a false start, and remind you
>respectfully that practice makes perfect.
>

You'd certainly think so.
--
Paul

[bil...@shaw.ca]

On Tuesday, October 4, 2022 at 6:46:00 AM UTC-7, Tony Cooper wrote:
> On Tue, 4 Oct 2022 06:42:41 -0700 (PDT), Jerry Friedman
> <jerry_f...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> >On Monday, October 3, 2022 at 9:40:36 PM UTC-6, Bertel Lund Hansen wrote:
> >> Den 03.10.2022 kl. 23.41 skrev bil...@shaw.ca:
> >>
> >> > In most cases, such greetings from people who work in shops are probably
> >> > a requirement of their employment.
> >
> >> I doubt very much that the specific greeting is specified by their
> >> employer. I am sure that they are required to act politely and friendly
> >> towards customers.
> >
> >I agree, though I suspect in some cases that they're specifically told to
> >offer a wish of the "Have a" type.
> >
> >Yesterday the guy who made me a sandwich told me to have an
> >amazing day.
> I frequently hear "Have a blessed day".

Time to stop watching The Handmaid's Tale.

bill

[Paul Wolff]

On Tue, 4 Oct 2022, at 08:39:13, Ken Blake posted:

>On Tue, 04 Oct 2022 09:45:54 -0400, Tony Cooper
><tonyco...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>On Tue, 4 Oct 2022 06:42:41 -0700 (PDT), Jerry Friedman

>>>On Monday, October 3, 2022 at 9:40:36 PM UTC-6, Bertel Lund Hansen wrote:
>>>> Den 03.10.2022 kl. 23.41 skrev bil...@shaw.ca:
>>>>
>>>> > In most cases, such greetings from people who work in shops are probably
>>>> > a requirement of their employment.
>>>
>>>> I doubt very much that the specific greeting is specified by their
>>>> employer. I am sure that they are required to act politely and friendly
>>>> towards customers.
>>>
>>>I agree, though I suspect in some cases that they're specifically told to
>>>offer a wish of the "Have a" type.
>>>
>>>Yesterday the guy who made me a sandwich told me to have an
>>>amazing day.
>>
>>I frequently hear "Have a blessed day".

I probably asked last time that came up: is it two syllables or one?
Both ways are valid for that spelling.

>
>If I've ever heard that, it's been seldom. If someone said that to me,
>I wouldn't respond, even though I'd understand that he was just trying
>to be polite. It would turn me off; I don't want to be blessed.

Not even when you've just sneezed? Mind you, it's quite a while since I
heard "Bless you!" like that.
--
Paul

[musika]

Bloody Lousy Time?

--
Ray
UK

[Ken Blake]

On Tue, 4 Oct 2022 17:12:42 +0100, Paul Wolff
<boun...@thiswontwork.wolff.co.uk> wrote:

>On Tue, 4 Oct 2022, at 08:39:13, Ken Blake posted:
>>On Tue, 04 Oct 2022 09:45:54 -0400, Tony Cooper
>><tonyco...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>On Tue, 4 Oct 2022 06:42:41 -0700 (PDT), Jerry Friedman
>>>>On Monday, October 3, 2022 at 9:40:36 PM UTC-6, Bertel Lund Hansen wrote:
>>>>> Den 03.10.2022 kl. 23.41 skrev bil...@shaw.ca:
>>>>>
>>>>> > In most cases, such greetings from people who work in shops are probably
>>>>> > a requirement of their employment.
>>>>
>>>>> I doubt very much that the specific greeting is specified by their
>>>>> employer. I am sure that they are required to act politely and friendly
>>>>> towards customers.
>>>>
>>>>I agree, though I suspect in some cases that they're specifically told to
>>>>offer a wish of the "Have a" type.
>>>>
>>>>Yesterday the guy who made me a sandwich told me to have an
>>>>amazing day.
>>>
>>>I frequently hear "Have a blessed day".
>
>I probably asked last time that came up: is it two syllables or one?
>Both ways are valid for that spelling.

Yes, but as far as I'm concerned, it's one syllable for the verb and
two syllables for the adjective. So in that sentence, it's two.

>>If I've ever heard that, it's been seldom. If someone said that to me,
>>I wouldn't respond, even though I'd understand that he was just trying
>>to be polite. It would turn me off; I don't want to be blessed.

And in that sentence it's one.

>Not even when you've just sneezed?

Nope, not even then, although I wouldn't take offense at someone who
said that.

I had a friend who would always reply "bullshit!" if someone said
"bless you" is response to her sneezing. I understood why she felt
that way, but not why she replied "bullshit!" to my saying
"gesundheit."

>Mind you, it's quite a while since I
>heard "Bless you!" like that.

Interesting. I still find it to be fairly common.

[lar3ryca]

When someone sneezes, I usually say "gesundheit" or nothing at all.

--
Where there’s a will, I want to be in it.

[lar3ryca]

On 2022-10-04 07:42, Jerry Friedman wrote:
> On Monday, October 3, 2022 at 9:40:36 PM UTC-6, Bertel Lund Hansen wrote:
>> Den 03.10.2022 kl. 23.41 skrev bil...@shaw.ca:
>>
>>> In most cases, such greetings from people who work in shops are probably
>>> a requirement of their employment.
>
>> I doubt very much that the specific greeting is specified by their
>> employer. I am sure that they are required to act politely and friendly
>> towards customers.
>
> I agree, though I suspect in some cases that they're specifically told to
> offer a wish of the "Have a" type.
>
> Yesterday the guy who made me a sandwich told me to have an
> amazing day.
>

> By the way, in my English you can't use "friendly" (or "lovely", "ugly",
> etc.) as an adverb. I might say "be polite and friendly", or if that sounds
> like actual friendliness, "be polite and act friendly".

While on a course in Dallas, in restaurants I sometimes got a "Y'all
have a nice day, now.", but more often it was "Y'all come back now, y'hear"

--
All those who believe in psychokinesis raise my hand.

[Ken Blake]

OK, I'll come back next y'hear.

[Bertel Lund Hansen]

Den 04.10.2022 kl. 19.04 skrev lar3ryca:

> When someone sneezes, I usually say "gesundheit" or nothing at all.

In Denmark we say "Prosit".

--
Bertel

[Bertel Lund Hansen]

Den 04.10.2022 kl. 17.12 skrev Jerry Friedman:

> "Goodbyes", though I prefer "good-byes". Those are both in the American
> Heritage Dictionary. I haven't checked any others, but what dictionary are
> you using?

For British English:
https://www.oxfordlearnersdictionaries.com/

For American English:
https://www.dictionary.com/

This time I only checked the first one.

--
Bertel

[Bebercito]

Le mardi 4 octobre 2022 à 14:21:27 UTC+2, Quinn C a écrit :
> * Silvano:

> > Snidely hat am 03.10.2022 um 22:42 geschrieben:
> >> on 10/3/2022, Silvano supposed :
> >>> occam hat am 03.10.2022 um 14:09 geschrieben:
> >>>> There is a hierarchy of the three non-numeric terms, in meaning if not
> >>>> in frequency usage. In increasing order:
> >>>>
> >>>> [One], a couple, few, several, multiple, many, dozen, dozens, loads,
> >>>> truckloads, shitloads, ... zillions, gazillions
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Interesting. Could you be so kind and write your figures next to "a
> >>> couple", "few", "several" and so on?
> >>> "Dozen" is twelve, as we all know, so I'm very curious about that the
> >>> names between the obvious "one" and "dozen".
> >>
> >> Couple == approximately two
> >> several == approximately between 1 and 20
> >> few == less than many
> >> many == more than few, often significantly more
> >>
> >> Is that enough precision for you?
> >
> > More or less. In particular, "many" means to me definitely more than a
> > dozen and could even be more than dozens when it means "significantly
> > more than few", as you explain.

> > That's why I questioned the statement about the increasing order.
> > Also, I'm not sure about the place of "multiple". Perhaps 5 to 11?
> "Many" definitely depends on expectations - five sardines aren't many

It's all relative: if they are in a 4-sardine can, they are many.

> but five blue whales may be.
>

> "Multiple" also has a bit of that aspect to me: it stresses that there's
> several where you'd only expect one at most.
>
> --
> ... speaking the right words might not make you a good person,
> but the wrong ones have real and destructive consequences.
> -- Philip Sayers, The Walrus, Jan. 2020

[Bertel Lund Hansen]

Den 04.10.2022 kl. 20.03 skrev Bebercito:

> It's all relative: if they are in a 4-sardine can, they are many.

Once when I was a child, we were taken on a little trip in some of my
parents' friends' car. We didn't have one ourselves. It was a Beetle,
and we were 5 grown-ups, 7 children and a dog.

--
Bertel

[Peter T. Daniels]

On Monday, October 3, 2022 at 11:10:28 PM UTC-4, Peter Moylan wrote:
> On 04/10/22 03:55, lar3ryca wrote:

> > One I have been hearing a lot lately is "Have a nice rest of the
> > day."
> > I am always tempted to retort with "Don't tell me what to do!"
>
> You might have heard of the Irish greeting "The top of the morning to
> you". One way of responding to that is "And the rest of the day to you".

Which part of the morning is the top?

[Peter T. Daniels]

On Tuesday, October 4, 2022 at 5:40:45 AM UTC-4, Silvano wrote:
> Snidely hat am 03.10.2022 um 22:42 geschrieben:
> > on 10/3/2022, Silvano supposed :

> >> "Dozen" is twelve, as we all know, so I'm very curious about that the
> >> names between the obvious "one" and "dozen".
> > Couple == approximately two
> > several == approximately between 1 and 20
> > few == less than many
> > many == more than few, often significantly more
> > Is that enough precision for you?
>
> More or less. In particular, "many" means to me definitely more than a
> dozen and could even be more than dozens when it means "significantly
> more than few", as you explain.

You can't say "Many of Canada's provinces are likely to vote
against Trudeau next time"?

[Peter T. Daniels]

On Tuesday, October 4, 2022 at 8:40:04 AM UTC-4, Peter Moylan wrote:
> On 04/10/22 23:27, HVS wrote:

> > I use 24-hour time, but I don't mind that much if someone wants to
> > use am/pm notation. As you say, 12 am/pm is annoyingly ambiguous --
> > the answer to that is to use "12 noon" and "12 midnight", but my
> > impression is that only a minority of am/pm people do that.
>
> In my experience, the train and bus people tend to duck that problem by
> listing departure times as 11:59 am or 11:59 pm. Not as good as using
> 24-hour notation, as all the airlines do, but a partial solution.
>
> Unfortunately many other people tend to use "12 pm" instead of "noon",
> and that annoys me because my natural instinct is to interpret 12 pm as
> midnight, the time that is both 12 hours post meridiem and 12 hours ante
> meridiem. If instead they wrote "0 pm" for noon, I could live with that.

But 0 o'clock ought to be the hour before 1 o'clock in the morning -- the
wee hours. Noon isn't a wee hour!

[bruce bowser]

On Monday, October 3, 2022 at 4:31:19 AM UTC-4, Hibou wrote:
> I seem to hear 'multiple' a lot these days, especially from Americans,
> in places where I'd expect 'several' or 'many'.

"A factor of a factor is a factor" which is in fact the same as saying that "a multiple of a multiple is a multiple."

Cut The Knot -
-- https://www.cut-the-knot.org/arithmetic/FactorsAndMultiples.shtml#:~:text=The%20product%20of%20two%20integers,multiple%20is%20a%20common%20multiple.

[Kerr-Mudd, John]

On Tue, 4 Oct 2022 19:25:59 +0200

Bertel Lund Hansen <gade...@lundhansen.dk> wrote:

In Germany, I say 'Proust'. It confuses them.
(Iechyd da, Sam!)

--
Bah, and indeed Humbug.

[Tony Cooper]

On Tue, 4 Oct 2022 17:12:42 +0100, Paul Wolff

<boun...@thiswontwork.wolff.co.uk> wrote:

>On Tue, 4 Oct 2022, at 08:39:13, Ken Blake posted:
>>On Tue, 04 Oct 2022 09:45:54 -0400, Tony Cooper
>><tonyco...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>On Tue, 4 Oct 2022 06:42:41 -0700 (PDT), Jerry Friedman
>>>>On Monday, October 3, 2022 at 9:40:36 PM UTC-6, Bertel Lund Hansen wrote:
>>>>> Den 03.10.2022 kl. 23.41 skrev bil...@shaw.ca:
>>>>>
>>>>> > In most cases, such greetings from people who work in shops are probably
>>>>> > a requirement of their employment.
>>>>
>>>>> I doubt very much that the specific greeting is specified by their
>>>>> employer. I am sure that they are required to act politely and friendly
>>>>> towards customers.
>>>>
>>>>I agree, though I suspect in some cases that they're specifically told to
>>>>offer a wish of the "Have a" type.
>>>>
>>>>Yesterday the guy who made me a sandwich told me to have an
>>>>amazing day.
>>>
>>>I frequently hear "Have a blessed day".
>
>I probably asked last time that came up: is it two syllables or one?
>Both ways are valid for that spelling.
>>

Both ways. Bless-sed and blest. Depends on the speaker.

I'd have to pay more attention to the use to identify which type of
speaker uses which. Very often it's an African American, but
sometimes just a born-again white person.

I have a (totally unfounded) hunch it depends on how the person's
pastor pronounces "blessed".

>>If I've ever heard that, it's been seldom. If someone said that to me,
>>I wouldn't respond, even though I'd understand that he was just trying
>>to be polite. It would turn me off; I don't want to be blessed.

Well, I'm south of the Bible belt, but there are a lot of very
religious people around here.

I neither respond nor react negatively. It's actually less offensive
than the perfunctory "Have a nice day" from shop person who has been
told by management to be pleasant to customers. The person who says
"Have a blessed day" is genuine in their effort to share their
conviction.

>Not even when you've just sneezed? Mind you, it's quite a while since I
>heard "Bless you!" like that.
--

[Tony Cooper]

I'd have to start first.

[Sam Plusnet]

On 04-Oct-22 11:13, Bertel Lund Hansen wrote:
> Den 04.10.2022 kl. 11.41 skrev Adam Funk:
>
>> "I asked my mother what 'a couple' meant. She said 'two or three'. I
>> wonder now if that had anything to do with the divorce."
>
> I thought that three was a crowd?

And how many does it take to be a host on a game show?

--
Sam Plusnet

[Sam Plusnet]

On 04-Oct-22 4:43, Bertel Lund Hansen wrote:
> Den 04.10.2022 kl. 02.03 skrev Sam Plusnet:
>
>> I know it's false, the person saying it knows that it's false, but the
>> nonsense is wished on us both by outside forces.
>
> A standard greeting is not false. It is a formula used to signal that
> the sender is a polite person, and the receiver answers with a similar
> fixed formula with the same meaning.
>

> It is only when people start designing their UNIQUE greeting that
> attention is called to what ought not to attract any.
>
Standard greetings are fine.
We were discussing words on parting:
"Have a great day!" "Have a fantastic rest of the day!" etc.
Not a simple, polite, "Goodbye".

--
Sam Plusnet

[Sam Plusnet]

On 04-Oct-22 15:54, Laura Spira wrote:
> A smile is good enough, no need for words.
>
> (I'm smiling at everyone, just passing through)

Oh go on. Hang around for a while.

P.S. I didn't know you could get married in the Bodleian?
(A friend was Best Woman at a wedding there a couple of weeks ago.)

--
Sam Plusnet

[Sam Plusnet]

On 04-Oct-22 17:49, Ken Blake wrote:
> I had a friend who would always reply "bullshit!" if someone said
> "bless you" is response to her sneezing. I understood why she felt
> that way, but not why she replied "bullshit!" to my saying
> "gesundheit."

Perhaps she just assumed "gesundheit" = "Bless You", and assumed one
response fits all.

--
Sam Plusnet

[Sam Plusnet]

Sto lat!

--
Sam Plusnet

[Sam Plusnet]

On 04-Oct-22 4:13, Peter Moylan wrote:
> On 04/10/22 07:45, Snidely wrote:
>> After serious thinking Sam Plusnet wrote :
>>> On 03-Oct-22 13:30, Bertel Lund Hansen wrote:

>>>> Den 03.10.2022 kl. 10.31 skrev Hibou:
>>>>
>>>>> I seem to hear 'multiple' a lot these days, especially from

>>>>> Americans, in places where I'd expect 'several' or 'many'. This
>>>>>  puzzles me - using three syllables in place of two - could
>>>>> this be an instance of the dreaded linguistic inflation?
>>>>
>>>> I experienced a linguistic inflation some weeks ago. In a shop
>>>> where i had bought something with the help of a shop assistant,
>>>> she wished me:
>>>>
>>>> Have a fantastic day.
>>>>
>>>> I found it unpleasant but was taken aback and just answered:
>>>>
>>>> You too.
>>>>
>>>> I wish that I had said:
>>>>
>>>> Have a nice day.
>>>>
>>>> which has become the standard phrase these days.
>>>>
>>> An opportunity to say: "I'll stick with reality, if it's all the
>>> same to you."
>>
>> Well, sure, if you want to make Scrooge sound jolly.
>
> A person who says "Have a fantastic day" is probably unaware of the
> literal meaning of "fantastic".
>
> Or is aware of it, and is secretly cursing you.

The truth is, that giving any 'smart' reply will almost certainly extend
the conversation far beyond its natural endpoint - and all I want to do
is get out of there.

--
Sam Plusnet

[Ken Blake]

Yes, I think so.

[Jerry Friedman]

On Tuesday, October 4, 2022 at 2:59:41 PM UTC-6, Sam Plusnet wrote:
> On 04-Oct-22 4:13, Peter Moylan wrote:
> > On 04/10/22 07:45, Snidely wrote:
> >> After serious thinking Sam Plusnet wrote :
> >>> On 03-Oct-22 13:30, Bertel Lund Hansen wrote:

...

> >>>> I experienced a linguistic inflation some weeks ago. In a shop
> >>>> where i had bought something with the help of a shop assistant,
> >>>> she wished me:
> >>>>
> >>>> Have a fantastic day.
> >>>>
> >>>> I found it unpleasant but was taken aback and just answered:
> >>>>
> >>>> You too.
> >>>>
> >>>> I wish that I had said:
> >>>>
> >>>> Have a nice day.
> >>>>
> >>>> which has become the standard phrase these days.
> >>>>
> >>> An opportunity to say: "I'll stick with reality, if it's all the
> >>> same to you."
> >>
> >> Well, sure, if you want to make Scrooge sound jolly.
> >
> > A person who says "Have a fantastic day" is probably unaware of the
> > literal meaning of "fantastic".
> >
> > Or is aware of it, and is secretly cursing you.
>
> The truth is, that giving any 'smart' reply will almost certainly extend
> the conversation far beyond its natural endpoint - and all I want to do
> is get out of there.

You need to practice your Parthian shots.

--
Jerry Friedman

[Kerr-Mudd, John]

In Bavarian the welcome greeting often used is "Gross Gut", which I find
awkward. If not downright insulting.

[Jerry Friedman]

On Tuesday, October 4, 2022 at 10:49:58 AM UTC-6, Ken Blake wrote:
...

> I had a friend who would always reply "bullshit!" if someone said
> "bless you" is response to her sneezing. I understood why she felt
> that way, but not why she replied "bullshit!" to my saying
> "gesundheit."

Maybe thought wishing somebody health was just as useless as
blessing them.

--
Jerry Friedman

[Ken Blake]

No, I think Sam Plusnet got it right. I think she didn't know what
"gesundheit" meant. And she didn't care about what was or wasn't
useless; she cared about invoking a God she didn't believe in.

She died of ovarian cancer about ten years ago. I can't ask her why
she said "bullshit."