pronunciation of Toyota
iwasaki
mentioned Toyota, and I didn't understand what he was talking about
until he repeated the word third times. One week later, I also heard
an American (from Portland, Oregon) referring to Toyota, and again
I didn't understand it right away. To me, it sounded like there were
too many vowels. The strange thing is that I can immediately understand
it when I hear the word in a radio program, such as BBC news and CNN news.
How do you or non-media people usually pronounce the word "Toyota"?
--
Nobuko Iwasaki
(The explanation with ASCII IPA is also welcomed)
Athel Cornish-Bowden
<pianofo...@mtg.biglobe.ne.jp> said:
> How do you pronounce "Toyota"? The other day, a Canadian (from Toronto)
> mentioned Toyota, and I didn't understand what he was talking about
> until he repeated the word third times. One week later, I also heard
> an American (from Portland, Oregon) referring to Toyota, and again
> I didn't understand it right away. To me, it sounded like there were
> too many vowels. The strange thing is that I can immediately understand
> it when I hear the word in a radio program, such as BBC news and CNN news.
> How do you or non-media people usually pronounce the word "Toyota"?
I pronounce the first syllable as toy, the second as oh, and the last
(very weakly) as ah. The stess is on the second syllable, but the first
is clearly enunciated. I am British, so it may be said quite
differently in Canada or the US.
--
athel
Jeffrey Turner
toy-OH-ta, where the final 'a' is a schwa.
--Jeff
--
The struggle with evil by means of violence
is the same as an attempt to stop a cloud,
in order that there may be no rain. -Leo Tolstoy
CDB
> iwasaki wrote:
>> How do you pronounce "Toyota"? The other day, a Canadian (from
>> Toronto) mentioned Toyota, and I didn't understand what he was
>> talking about until he repeated the word third times. One week
>> later, I also
>> heard an American (from Portland, Oregon) referring to Toyota, and
>> again
>> I didn't understand it right away. To me, it sounded like there
>> were too many vowels. The strange thing is that I can immediately
>> understand it when I hear the word in a radio program, such as BBC
>> news and CNN news. How do you or non-media people usually
>> pronounce the word "Toyota"?
> toy-OH-ta, where the final 'a' is a schwa.
Same for me, in Central Canada (Ottawa), except that the "a" is a
short but clearly-pronounced / a/: / toj 'o ta/, if I've got the
notation right. The vowels aren't exactly right, the first / o/ being
a bit more open, like / A/, and the / a/ more centered and open,
closer than usual to the position of / V/.
tony cooper
<pianofo...@mtg.biglobe.ne.jp> wrote:
>How do you pronounce "Toyota"? The other day, a Canadian (from Toronto)
>mentioned Toyota, and I didn't understand what he was talking about
>until he repeated the word third times. One week later, I also heard
>an American (from Portland, Oregon) referring to Toyota, and again
>I didn't understand it right away. To me, it sounded like there were
>too many vowels. The strange thing is that I can immediately understand
>it when I hear the word in a radio program, such as BBC news and CNN news.
>How do you or non-media people usually pronounce the word "Toyota"?
Toy-oh-ta. Three syllables, but the second and third kinda mashed
together. Saying it aloud several times leads me to think I may be
saying "toy-oh-da". I know I don't hit that second "t" sharply.
--
Tony Cooper - Orlando, Florida
Peacenik
news:6e94sdF...@mid.individual.net...
> How do you pronounce "Toyota"? The other day, a Canadian (from Toronto)
> mentioned Toyota, and I didn't understand what he was talking about
> until he repeated the word third times. One week later, I also heard
> an American (from Portland, Oregon) referring to Toyota, and again
> I didn't understand it right away. To me, it sounded like there were
> too many vowels. The strange thing is that I can immediately understand
> it when I hear the word in a radio program, such as BBC news and CNN news.
> How do you or non-media people usually pronounce the word "Toyota"?
I say "toy-OH-duh" (the "OH" being the vowel in "bone", the "d" being a
flap).
I once heard someone say "tee-AH-duh", but that was an anomaly.
R...@med.unc.edu
wrote:
Is the explanation perhaps that the Japanese sound represented with a
'y' in this romanization is a consonant, while many English speakers
see it as the second half of a diphthong? All of the responses to
this question I have seen so far are something like "toy-oh-ta", with
no consonantal y in the second syllable at all. But perhaps some BBC
and CNN announcers actually say something more like "toh-yoh-tah". I
don't speak Japanese, but I'm suspecting that this might be a bit
closer to the Japanese pronunciation than "toy-oh-ta".
I do know that the second kanji character in "Toyota" is sometimes
romanized as "ta" and sometimes as "da", so there may be something in
the English pronunciation of the final 't' that doesn't sound right to
Japanese ears either.
I don't know what "Toyota" means, but I do know that "Mitsubishi"
means "three diamonds" and "Subaru" is the Japanese name for the
Pleiades, or for one of the stars in the Pleiades. Knowing this makes
two logos blindingly obvious.
Take it easy,
Ron Knight
John Kane
Same here but who knows how someone from Toronto (teranna ?) would
pronounce it?
Purl Gurl
> iwasaki wrote:
>> How do you pronounce "Toyota"?
> I say "toy-OH-duh" (the "OH" being the vowel in "bone",
> the "d" being a flap).
Instant Poll Results: our family, tow-yo-tah
More Poll Results (datsun): daht-sun
I also asked of mitsubishi. Our girl told me
to shutup. My husband said, mitt-see for
enuniciation. When pressed for a full enunication,
he also told me to shutup.
--
Purl Gurl
--
So many are stumped by what slips right off the top of my mind
like a man's bad fitting hairpiece.
Default User
> iwasaki wrote:
>
> > How do you pronounce "Toyota"? The other day, a Canadian (from
> > Toronto) mentioned Toyota, and I didn't understand what he was
> > talking about until he repeated the word third times. One week
> > later, I also heard an American (from Portland, Oregon) referring
> > to Toyota, and again I didn't understand it right away. To me, it
> > sounded like there were too many vowels. The strange thing is that
> > I can immediately understand it when I hear the word in a radio
> > program, such as BBC news and CNN news. How do you or non-media
> > people usually pronounce the word "Toyota"?
> toy-OH-ta, where the final 'a' is a schwa.
Similar for me, although I've heard TY-oh-ta.
Brian
--
If televison's a babysitter, the Internet is a drunk librarian who
won't shut up.
-- Dorothy Gambrell (http://catandgirl.com)
Raymond O'Hara
Toy oh ta
When the Boston Red Sox signed Daisuke Matsuzaka we had troble with his
given name.
Dy su kay being the the standard but we were soon told it was pronounced
more like Dice-k and that is what we now call him and how everybody writes
it .
R H Draney
>
>Is the explanation perhaps that the Japanese sound represented with a
>'y' in this romanization is a consonant, while many English speakers
>see it as the second half of a diphthong? All of the responses to
>this question I have seen so far are something like "toy-oh-ta", with
>no consonantal y in the second syllable at all. But perhaps some BBC
>and CNN announcers actually say something more like "toh-yoh-tah". I
>don't speak Japanese, but I'm suspecting that this might be a bit
>closer to the Japanese pronunciation than "toy-oh-ta".
>
>I do know that the second kanji character in "Toyota" is sometimes
>romanized as "ta" and sometimes as "da", so there may be something in
>the English pronunciation of the final 't' that doesn't sound right to
>Japanese ears either.
I think we've pretty much hit on a number of things that would make the North
American pronunciation of "Toyota" unrecognizable in its land of origin...to
recap:
1. Eng "toy-o" vs Jp "to-yo"
2. second "t" reduced to something like "d"
3. schwa for final vowel
There may also be some corruption of vowel lengths, a classic problem of
Japanese words in the mouths of English speakers....
>I don't know what "Toyota" means, but I do know that "Mitsubishi"
>means "three diamonds" and "Subaru" is the Japanese name for the
>Pleiades, or for one of the stars in the Pleiades. Knowing this makes
>two logos blindingly obvious.
Then there's "Nissan"...proper Japanese has a short "i" and long (doubled) "s",
a sort of acronym for "Japan Motor Company"...the usual AmE pronunciation has
long "i" and single "s", meaning "big brother"....
(Don't even get me started on the mess we make of the word "karaoke")....r
--
Evelyn Wood just looks at the pictures.
Mark Brader
> > How do you pronounce "Toyota"? ...
Athel Cornish-Bowden (copyedited):
> I pronounce the first syllable as toy, the second as oh, and the last
> (very weakly) as ah. The stress is on the second syllable...
I don't think Athel really means that he says "Toyo-a".
I agree with Athel for the parts of the word he describes. As for
the second T, in North American English the T sound between two vowels
can come out something like a D, and I think I'd say Toyota that way
at least sometimes -- it's hard to tell when I'm thinking about it.
--
Mark Brader, Toronto | "...blind faith can ruin the eyesight--
m...@vex.net | and the perspective." --Robert Ludlum
My text in this article is in the public domain.
Mark Brader
> Then there's "Nissan"...proper Japanese has a short "i" and long
> (doubled) "s", a sort of acronym for "Japan Motor Company"...the
I think you mean long E (as in see), not long I (as in sigh).
(Of course, "long I" in some *other* languages resembles long E in
English. Blame in on the Great Vowel Shift.)
--
Mark Brader "MSB is an accepted explanation for men's
Toronto misbehaviors. ... Just blame it on MSB
m...@vex.net and everyone nods their heads." -- "TJ"
John Seal
news:g5o4g...@drn.newsguy.com...
> I think we've pretty much hit on a number of things that would make the
> North
> American pronunciation of "Toyota" unrecognizable in its land of
> origin...to
> recap:
>
> 1. Eng "toy-o" vs Jp "to-yo"
Could some people be splitting the diphthong in "toy", something more like
"to-ee"? That would explain the OP's comment that it sounds like "too many
vowels", which no other explanation has addressed.
To-ee-oh-ta => 4 vowel sounds
Peter Duncanson (BrE)
<pianofo...@mtg.biglobe.ne.jp> wrote:
>How do you pronounce "Toyota"? The other day, a Canadian (from Toronto)
>mentioned Toyota, and I didn't understand what he was talking about
>until he repeated the word third times. One week later, I also heard
>an American (from Portland, Oregon) referring to Toyota, and again
>I didn't understand it right away. To me, it sounded like there were
>too many vowels. The strange thing is that I can immediately understand
>it when I hear the word in a radio program, such as BBC news and CNN news.
>How do you or non-media people usually pronounce the word "Toyota"?
I've been saying the word to myself a number of times during
since I read that question (nearly five hours ago).
If I say the word as three separate syllables is is Toy-oh-tuh
with the 'y' silent. The sounds could be represented as
Toi-oh-tuh.
However, when I run the syllables together and say the word
quickly I sound the 'y' as a consonant. The word becomes
Toi-yoh-tuh.
--
Peter Duncanson, UK
(in alt.usage.english)
Peter Duncanson (BrE)
<ma...@peterduncanson.net> wrote:
>I've been saying the word to myself a number of times during
>since I read that question (nearly five hours ago).
I deleted "during". How did it reappear, I wonder?
Richard Maurer
How do you pronounce "Toyota"? The other day, a Canadian
(from Toronto) mentioned Toyota, and I didn't understand
what he was talking about until he repeated the word
third times. One week later, I also heard an American
(from Portland, Oregon) referring to Toyota, and again
I didn't understand it right away. To me, it sounded
like there were too many vowels. The strange thing is
that I can immediately understand it when I hear the word
in a radio program, such as BBC news and CNN news.
How do you or non-media people usually pronounce
the word "Toyota"?
I think that it can vary within the same individual.
We have had previous threads on this which might reveal
more. In addition to the other answers, I think that
there is a pronunciation where the y does double duty:
Toy-YO-tuh
where the "toy" gets two vowel sounds, though the
second may be weakened.
-- ---------------------------------------------
Richard Maurer To reply, remove half
Sunnyvale, California of a homonym of a synonym for also.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
(Jocund as we beat the ground
Love and Harmony go round.)
The UnInmate
> mentioned Toyota, and I didn't understand what he was talking about
> until he repeated the word third times. One week later, I also heard
> an American (from Portland, Oregon) referring to Toyota, and again
> I didn't understand it right away. To me, it sounded like there were
> too many vowels. The strange thing is that I can immediately understand
> it when I hear the word in a radio program, such as BBC news and CNN news.
> How do you or non-media people usually pronounce the word "Toyota"?
tuh-YOH-tah. Which I understand is not how it's pronounced in the Far East;
but over here we don't say "dumb-guy-AAAH" either. ;-)
Athel Cornish-Bowden
> "Iwasaki":
>>> How do you pronounce "Toyota"? ...
>
> Athel Cornish-Bowden (copyedited):
>> I pronounce the first syllable as toy, the second as oh, and the last
>> (very weakly) as ah. The stress is on the second syllable...
>
> I don't think Athel really means that he says "Toyo-a".
>
> I agree with Athel for the parts of the word he describes. As for
> the second T, in North American English the T sound between two vowels
> can come out something like a D, and I think I'd say Toyota that way
> at least sometimes -- it's hard to tell when I'm thinking about it.
--
athel
Athel Cornish-Bowden
> "Iwasaki":
>>> How do you pronounce "Toyota"? ...
>
> Athel Cornish-Bowden (copyedited):
>> I pronounce the first syllable as toy, the second as oh, and the last
>> (very weakly) as ah. The stress is on the second syllable...
>
> I don't think Athel really means that he says "Toyo-a".
>
> I agree with Athel for the parts of the word he describes. As for
> the second T, in North American English the T sound between two vowels
> can come out something like a D, and I think I'd say Toyota that way
> at least sometimes -- it's hard to tell when I'm thinking about it.
--
athel
R H Draney
>
>R.H. Draney:
>> Then there's "Nissan"...proper Japanese has a short "i" and long
>> (doubled) "s", a sort of acronym for "Japan Motor Company"...the
>> usual AmE pronunciation has long "i" and single "s" ...
>
>I think you mean long E (as in see), not long I (as in sigh).
>(Of course, "long I" in some *other* languages resembles long E in
>English. Blame in on the Great Vowel Shift.)
To the best of my knowledge, Japanese vowels never shifted...I meant "i" as in
the second element of the "ah ee oo eh oh" dimension of the goju-on....r
Raymond O'Hara
"Peter Duncanson (BrE)" <ma...@peterduncanson.net> wrote in message
news:7q8v74146p7hepl9j...@4ax.com...
That's a computer for you.
Frank ess
iwasaki wrote:
> How do you pronounce "Toyota"? The other day, a Canadian (from
> Toronto) mentioned Toyota, and I didn't understand what he was
> talking about until he repeated the word third times. One week
> later, I also
> heard an American (from Portland, Oregon) referring to Toyota, and
> again
> I didn't understand it right away. To me, it sounded like there
> were too many vowels. The strange thing is that I can immediately
> understand it when I hear the word in a radio program, such as BBC
> news and CNN news. How do you or non-media people usually pronounce
> the word "Toyota"?
Since I learned many of them were made or assembled in Mexico, it's
been "Toe YOH tl. Can't get past it. Stuck smart-mouth syndrome.
--
Frank ess
Rambler III
"Jeffrey Turner" <jtu...@localnet.com> wrote in message
news:MIednVc2SIe8-eLV...@posted.localnet...
> iwasaki wrote:
>
>> How do you pronounce "Toyota"? The other day, a Canadian (from
>> Toronto)
>> mentioned Toyota, and I didn't understand what he was talking about
>> until he repeated the word third times. One week later, I also
>> heard
>> an American (from Portland, Oregon) referring to Toyota, and again
>> I didn't understand it right away. To me, it sounded like there
>> were
>> too many vowels. The strange thing is that I can immediately
>> understand
>> it when I hear the word in a radio program, such as BBC news and
>> CNN news.
>> How do you or non-media people usually pronounce the word "Toyota"?
>>
>> --
>> Nobuko Iwasaki
>> (The explanation with ASCII IPA is also welcomed)
>
> toy-OH-ta, where the final 'a' is a schwa.
>
> --Jeff
And I suppose Tokyo is "tok yo"?
R H Draney
>
>"Jeffrey Turner" <jtu...@localnet.com> wrote in message
>news:MIednVc2SIe8-eLV...@posted.localnet...
>>
>
I'm sure we've done this, but:
English: TOH-kee-oh
Japanese: toh-ooh-kyoh-ooh (theoretically equally stressed throughout, but in
practice the first mora seems to be hit the hardest)
If you really want to impress people, pronounce it "yeh-do"....r
Rambler III
> Rambler III filted:
>>
>>"Jeffrey Turner" <jtu...@localnet.com> wrote in message
>>news:MIednVc2SIe8-eLV...@posted.localnet...
>>>
>>> toy-OH-ta, where the final 'a' is a schwa.
>>
>>And I suppose Tokyo is "tok yo"?
>
> I'm sure we've done this, but:
>
> English: TOH-kee-oh
> Japanese: toh-ooh-kyoh-ooh (theoretically equally stressed
> throughout, but in
> practice the first mora seems to be hit the hardest)
Things change, but when I was there it was simply "To kyo". Two
syllables "Toh-kyoh".
In what Marlon Brando movie did you get "toh-ooh-kyoh-ooh"?
Advice: If in Kisarazu, Tachikawa or Fussamachi, never try to hire a
taxi to "toh-ooh-kyoh-ooh".
> If you really want to impress people, pronounce it "yeh-do"....r
Some say Edo, others say Yedo. (I have a dictionary, too.)
The UnInmate
"Rambler III" <Ramb...@xyz.com> wrote in message
news:9bQfk.123688$102....@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
TOE-kee-yoh here.
R H Draney
>> Japanese: toh-ooh-kyoh-ooh (theoretically equally stressed
>> throughout, but in
>> practice the first mora seems to be hit the hardest)
>
>Things change, but when I was there it was simply "To kyo". Two
>syllables "Toh-kyoh".
Would somebody be so kind as to show this gaijin the word "Tokyo" with
furigana?...r
Robert Bannister
> On 2008-07-17 16:56:06 +0200, "iwasaki"
>
>> How do you pronounce "Toyota"? The other day, a Canadian (from Toronto)
>> mentioned Toyota, and I didn't understand what he was talking about
>> until he repeated the word third times. One week later, I also heard
>> an American (from Portland, Oregon) referring to Toyota, and again
>> I didn't understand it right away. To me, it sounded like there were
>> too many vowels. The strange thing is that I can immediately understand
>> it when I hear the word in a radio program, such as BBC news and CNN
>> news.
>> How do you or non-media people usually pronounce the word "Toyota"?
>
> is clearly enunciated. I am British, so it may be said quite differently
> in Canada or the US.
I would say that most Australians weaken the "toy" part to an almost schwa.
--
Rob Bannister
annandale
The usual pronunciation in NZ seems to be 'Toy-oh-ta'. Having seen a
second-hand import with three japanese characters on mud-flaps, I worked
out that 'To-yo-ta' was the nearest correct pronunciation (3 syllables
and a consonantal 'y'.
My wife bought a new Toyota which finally had run up 230 000 kilometres.
We did not regard it as a 'toy'.
--
CWAM
Steve Hayes
>How do you pronounce "Toyota"? The other day, a Canadian (from Toronto)
>mentioned Toyota, and I didn't understand what he was talking about
>until he repeated the word third times. One week later, I also heard
>an American (from Portland, Oregon) referring to Toyota, and again
>I didn't understand it right away. To me, it sounded like there were
>too many vowels. The strange thing is that I can immediately understand
>it when I hear the word in a radio program, such as BBC news and CNN news.
>How do you or non-media people usually pronounce the word "Toyota"?
I pronounce it "toy" as in "toy", and "yota" as in "iota" with the stree on
the the "o". So does moy son, who works with them. How do the Japanese
pronounce it?
--
Steve Hayes from Tshwane, South Africa
Web: http://hayesfam.bravehost.com/stevesig.htm
Blog: http://methodius.blogspot.com
E-mail - see web page, or parse: shayes at dunelm full stop org full stop uk
Richard Bollard
wrote:
>R...@med.unc.edu filted:
>>
>>Is the explanation perhaps that the Japanese sound represented with a
>>'y' in this romanization is a consonant, while many English speakers
>>see it as the second half of a diphthong? All of the responses to
>>this question I have seen so far are something like "toy-oh-ta", with
>>no consonantal y in the second syllable at all. But perhaps some BBC
>>and CNN announcers actually say something more like "toh-yoh-tah". I
>>don't speak Japanese, but I'm suspecting that this might be a bit
>>closer to the Japanese pronunciation than "toy-oh-ta".
>>
>>I do know that the second kanji character in "Toyota" is sometimes
>>romanized as "ta" and sometimes as "da", so there may be something in
>>the English pronunciation of the final 't' that doesn't sound right to
>>Japanese ears either.
>
>I think we've pretty much hit on a number of things that would make the North
>American pronunciation of "Toyota" unrecognizable in its land of origin...to
>recap:
>
> 1. Eng "toy-o" vs Jp "to-yo"
> 2. second "t" reduced to something like "d"
> 3. schwa for final vowel
[...]
There's an American joke about a "toy Yoda" that gives an idea of
their pronunciation. Other English speakers would have more of a "T"
sound for the almost-"D".
--
Richard Bollard
Canberra Australia
To email, I'm at AMT not spAMT.
Steve Hayes
>Then there's "Nissan"...proper Japanese has a short "i" and long (doubled) "s",
>a sort of acronym for "Japan Motor Company"...the usual AmE pronunciation has
>long "i" and single "s", meaning "big brother"....
I pronounce it to rhyme with hissin'
R H Draney
>
>On 17 Jul 2008 11:53:58 -0700, R H Draney <dado...@spamcop.net> wrote:
>
>>Then there's "Nissan"...proper Japanese has a short "i" and long (doubled) "s",
>>a sort of acronym for "Japan Motor Company"...the usual AmE pronunciation has
>>long "i" and single "s", meaning "big brother"....
>
>I pronounce it to rhyme with hissin'
That's using your noodle....r
Rambler III
Tokyo
toh-ooh-kyoh-ooh
Athel Cornish-Bowden
> "Iwasaki":
>>> How do you pronounce "Toyota"? ...
>
> Athel Cornish-Bowden (copyedited):
>> I pronounce the first syllable as toy, the second as oh, and the last
>> (very weakly) as ah. The stress is on the second syllable...
>
> I don't think Athel really means that he says "Toyo-a".
No, you're right. I was going to give "oat" as the word, then I decided
the t belonged in the last syllable, then I forgot to put it there. I'm
getting old (and it's getting late: that's why I posted two empty
replies before this one, and, indeed, why I have waited 15 hours before
posting this one).
>
> I agree with Athel for the parts of the word he describes. As for
> the second T, in North American English the T sound between two vowels
> can come out something like a D, and I think I'd say Toyota that way
> at least sometimes -- it's hard to tell when I'm thinking about it.
--
athel
Donna Richoux
> On Jul 17, 10:56 am, "iwasaki" <pianofortefo...@mtg.biglobe.ne.jp>
> wrote:
> > How do you pronounce "Toyota"? The other day, a Canadian (from Toronto)
> > mentioned Toyota, and I didn't understand what he was talking about
> > until he repeated the word third times. One week later, I also heard
> > an American (from Portland, Oregon) referring to Toyota, and again
> > I didn't understand it right away. To me, it sounded like there were
> > too many vowels. The strange thing is that I can immediately understand
> > it when I hear the word in a radio program, such as BBC news and CNN news.
> > How do you or non-media people usually pronounce the word "Toyota"?
> >
> > --
> > Nobuko Iwasaki
> > (The explanation with ASCII IPA is also welcomed)
>
> Is the explanation perhaps that the Japanese sound represented with a
> 'y' in this romanization is a consonant, while many English speakers
> see it as the second half of a diphthong? All of the responses to
> this question I have seen so far are something like "toy-oh-ta", with
> no consonantal y in the second syllable at all. But perhaps some BBC
> and CNN announcers actually say something more like "toh-yoh-tah". I
> don't speak Japanese, but I'm suspecting that this might be a bit
> closer to the Japanese pronunciation than "toy-oh-ta".
I suspect that's it. The tendency to pronounce "oy" as "oy" is so
strong, I can't think of any words that escape that effect except for
"yoyo," which was often hyphenated anyway.
But it's quite easy to say "to-yo-ta" if you stop and think about it.
There's a kind of soy sauce called "shoyu" -- I bet that gets the same
treatment, "shoy-yu" instead of "sho-yu."
--
Best -- Donna Richoux
CDB
> On Jul 17, 11:45 am, "CDB" <bellema...@sympatico.ca> wrote:
>> Jeffrey Turner wrote:
>>> iwasaki wrote:
>>>> How do you pronounce "Toyota"? [...]
>>> toy-OH-ta, where the final 'a' is a schwa.
>> Same for me, in Central Canada (Ottawa), except that the "a" is a
>> short but clearly-pronounced / a/: / toj 'o ta/, if I've got the
>> notation right. The vowels aren't exactly right, the first / o/
>> being a bit more open, like / A/, and the / a/ more centered and
>> open, closer than usual to the position of / V/.
> Same here but who knows how someone from Toronto (teranna ?) would
> pronounce it?
Loud?
CDB
> iwasaki wrote:
>> How do you pronounce "Toyota"? [...]
> Since I learned many of them were made or assembled in Mexico, it's
> been "Toe YOH tl. Can't get past it. Stuck smart-mouth syndrome.
But then the American version would be Tigh-oatie.
tony cooper
<rich...@spamt.edu.au> wrote:
>There's an American joke about a "toy Yoda" that gives an idea of
>their pronunciation. Other English speakers would have more of a "T"
>sound for the almost-"D".
Oh, it's more than a joke. There was a lawsuit over it.
http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2002/05/09/toy-yoda.htm
--
Tony Cooper - Orlando, Florida
John Kane
Well that possibly.
John Kane Kingston ON Canada
R H Draney
She should have seen it coming...years before this happened, comedian Murray
Langston used to tell his audience that he'd just bought a new "toy Yoda" before
displaying the Star Wars figure....
(You might not have remembered it was Langston; he wore a paper bag over his
head in those days)....r
val189
(real soft 't' on the tuh)
Knew a gal who said tie-OH-tuh, but then she also said "buddons" and
"equibment".
tony cooper
wrote:
>tony cooper filted:
>>
>>On Fri, 18 Jul 2008 15:52:53 +1000, Richard Bollard
>><rich...@spamt.edu.au> wrote:
>>
>>>There's an American joke about a "toy Yoda" that gives an idea of
>>>their pronunciation. Other English speakers would have more of a "T"
>>>sound for the almost-"D".
>>
>>Oh, it's more than a joke. There was a lawsuit over it.
>>http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2002/05/09/toy-yoda.htm
>
>She should have seen it coming...
The litigant was a Hooters waitress. Many of them can't see 11 coming
after 10.
>years before this happened, comedian Murray
>Langston used to tell his audience that he'd just bought a new "toy Yoda" before
>displaying the Star Wars figure....
>
>(You might not have remembered it was Langston; he wore a paper bag over his
>head in those days)....r
--
Evan Kirshenbaum
> tony cooper filted:
>>
>>On Fri, 18 Jul 2008 15:52:53 +1000, Richard Bollard
>><rich...@spamt.edu.au> wrote:
>>
>>>There's an American joke about a "toy Yoda" that gives an idea of
>>>their pronunciation. Other English speakers would have more of a
>>>"T" sound for the almost-"D".
>>
>>Oh, it's more than a joke. There was a lawsuit over it.
>>http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2002/05/09/toy-yoda.htm
>
> She should have seen it coming...years before this happened,
> comedian Murray Langston used to tell his audience that he'd just
> bought a new "toy Yoda" before displaying the Star Wars figure....
I'd guess that the problem here was that the prize was used as an
incentive in a sales competition, which makes it cross the line for
me. Revealing the prize as essentially worthless *after* everybody's
worked to increase your sales is at the very least sleazy.
> (You might not have remembered it was Langston; he wore a paper bag
> over his head in those days)....r
Ah, him.
--
Evan Kirshenbaum +------------------------------------
HP Laboratories |He who will not reason, is a bigot;
1501 Page Mill Road, 1U, MS 1141 |he who cannot is a fool; and he who
Palo Alto, CA 94304 |dares not is a slave.
| Sir William Drummond
kirsh...@hpl.hp.com
(650)857-7572
Irwell
Toyota salesman to the customer coming to collect his
new car.
"Here Yaris, Sir!"
--
---
7/18/2008 4:22:11 PM
R H Draney
>
>Toyota salesman to the customer coming to collect his
>new car.
>"Here Yaris, Sir!"
That's okay, I can't say "shebbaray"....r
mm
>How do you pronounce "Toyota"? The other day, a Canadian (from Toronto)
>mentioned Toyota, and I didn't understand what he was talking about
>until he repeated the word third times. One week later, I also heard
>an American (from Portland, Oregon) referring to Toyota, and again
>I didn't understand it right away. To me, it sounded like there were
>too many vowels. The strange thing is that I can immediately understand
>it when I hear the word in a radio program, such as BBC news and CNN news.
>How do you or non-media people usually pronounce the word "Toyota"?
Well you're the Japanese. How do you say Toyota. I'll try to say it
like you do.
If you are inclined to email me
for some reason, remove NOPSAM :-)
Peter Duncanson (BrE)
<ma...@peterduncanson.net> wrote:
>On Thu, 17 Jul 2008 23:56:06 +0900, "iwasaki"
><pianofo...@mtg.biglobe.ne.jp> wrote:
>
>>How do you pronounce "Toyota"? The other day, a Canadian (from Toronto)
>>mentioned Toyota, and I didn't understand what he was talking about
>>until he repeated the word third times. One week later, I also heard
>>an American (from Portland, Oregon) referring to Toyota, and again
>>I didn't understand it right away. To me, it sounded like there were
>>too many vowels. The strange thing is that I can immediately understand
>>it when I hear the word in a radio program, such as BBC news and CNN news.
>>How do you or non-media people usually pronounce the word "Toyota"?
>
>I've been saying the word to myself a number of times during
>since I read that question (nearly five hours ago).
>If I say the word as three separate syllables is is Toy-oh-tuh
>with the 'y' silent. The sounds could be represented as
>Toi-oh-tuh.
>
>However, when I run the syllables together and say the word
>quickly I sound the 'y' as a consonant. The word becomes
>Toi-yoh-tuh.
This sounding of the 'y' as a consonant also happens when I say
"toying" or the name "Toyah".
--
Peter Duncanson, UK
(in alt.usage.english)
Ian Noble
<pianofo...@mtg.biglobe.ne.jp> wrote:
>How do you pronounce "Toyota"? The other day, a Canadian (from Toronto)
>mentioned Toyota, and I didn't understand what he was talking about
>until he repeated the word third times. One week later, I also heard
>an American (from Portland, Oregon) referring to Toyota, and again
>I didn't understand it right away. To me, it sounded like there were
>too many vowels. The strange thing is that I can immediately understand
>it when I hear the word in a radio program, such as BBC news and CNN news.
>How do you or non-media people usually pronounce the word "Toyota"?
There is indeed an extra vowel sound there. To most western eyes, the
first syllable is "toy", where both the o and y act as vowels . The
nearest I can come in Romaji to the western pronunciation is
"toiouta".
Cheers - Ian
Ian Noble
Or possibly "toioutsu", minus the sibilance in the final sound,
depending on where the speaker lives.
Cheers - Ian
Chuck Riggs
Damn my eyes, I still don't see the Fillet of Fish sandwich.
--
Regards,
Chuck Riggs
Near Dublin, Ireland
D. Glenn Arthur Jr.
tony cooper <tony_co...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>Toy-oh-ta. Three syllables, but the second and third kinda mashed
>together. Saying it aloud several times leads me to think I may be
>saying "toy-oh-da". I know I don't hit that second "t" sharply.
This pronounciation led to a briefly popular (and terribly
contrived) joke after the second _Star_Wars_ movie came out,
regarding the manufacture of a "toy Yoda".
--
D. Glenn Arthur Jr./The Human Vibrator, dgl...@panix.com
Due to hand/wrist problems my newsreading time varies so I may miss followups.
"Being a _man_ means knowing that one has a choice not to act like a 'man'."
http://www.panix.com/~dglenn/ http://dglenn.livejournal.com
Raymond O'Hara
"Steve Hayes" <haye...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:9mh0849ft84o15qhm...@4ax.com...
> On 17 Jul 2008 11:53:58 -0700, R H Draney <dado...@spamcop.net> wrote:
>
>>Then there's "Nissan"...proper Japanese has a short "i" and long (doubled)
>>"s",
>>a sort of acronym for "Japan Motor Company"...the usual AmE pronunciation
>>has
>>long "i" and single "s", meaning "big brother"....
>
> I pronounce it to rhyme with hissin'
>
In my neck of the woods its " nee sahn"
iwasaki
<R...@med.unc.edu> wrote in message ...
> I don't know what "Toyota" means, but I do know that "Mitsubishi"
> means "three diamonds" and "Subaru" is the Japanese name for the
> Pleiades, or for one of the stars in the Pleiades. Knowing this makes
> two logos blindingly obvious.
"Toyota" is taken from the name of the founder, Kiichiro Toyota,
and the meaning of toyota is "rich rice field". Its logo is
obviously from the initial of the name, though.
--
Nobuko Iwasaki
iwasaki
"R H Draney" wrote in message ...
>
> I think we've pretty much hit on a number of things that would make the
> North
> American pronunciation of "Toyota" unrecognizable in its land of
> origin...to
> recap:
>
> 1. Eng "toy-o" vs Jp "to-yo"
> 2. second "t" reduced to something like "d"
> 3. schwa for final vowel
>
> Japanese words in the mouths of English speakers....
And then there's also the difference in the stress:
5. Eng "to YO ta" vs JP "TO YO ta"
--
Nobuko Iwasaki
iwasaki
"Donna Richoux" wrote in message:
>
> There's a kind of soy sauce called "shoyu" -- I bet that gets the same
> treatment, "shoy-yu" instead of "sho-yu."
I have to remember the pronunciation, too. "Shoyu" is, by the way,
a Japanese name for soy sauce.
--
Nobuko Iwasaki
iwasaki
"mm" wrote in message ...
>
> Well you're the Japanese.
It was discussed not so long ago in this group that
the expression like "I am *a* Japanese" is not correct,
and "I am Japanese" is good. Is it okay to use "the"
in that case?
> How do you say Toyota. I'll try to say it
> like you do.
Thank you, kindly. But most of the English speakers
pronounce it in their own way, so I'd like to get used
to it, instead of trying to convert everyone. (And
I cannot complain when I think about what we have done
to English words in Japanese.)
--
Nobuko Iwasaki
tony cooper
<pianofo...@mtg.biglobe.ne.jp> wrote:
>
>"mm" wrote in message ...
>>
>> Well you're the Japanese.
>
>It was discussed not so long ago in this group that
>the expression like "I am *a* Japanese" is not correct,
>and "I am Japanese" is good. Is it okay to use "the"
>in that case?
"mm"'s usage clanged like a cracked bell.
"You are the one who is Japanese" would ring true.
Frank ess
Or, as I read it, "You're the (one representative of the) Japanese (in
this discussion)".
No problemo.
--
Frank ess
Unknown
On Fri, 18 Jul 2008 06:56:37 +0200, Steve Hayes posted:
>On Thu, 17 Jul 2008 23:56:06 +0900, "iwasaki"
><pianofo...@mtg.biglobe.ne.jp> wrote:
>
>>How do you pronounce "Toyota"? The other day, a Canadian (from Toronto)
>>mentioned Toyota, and I didn't understand what he was talking about
>>until he repeated the word third times. One week later, I also heard
>>an American (from Portland, Oregon) referring to Toyota, and again
>>I didn't understand it right away. To me, it sounded like there were
>>too many vowels. The strange thing is that I can immediately understand
>>it when I hear the word in a radio program, such as BBC news and CNN news.
>>How do you or non-media people usually pronounce the word "Toyota"?
>
>I pronounce it "toy" as in "toy", and "yota" as in "iota" with the stree on
>the the "o". So does moy son, who works with them. How do the Japanese
>pronounce it?
You pronounce "iota" as "ee-oh-ta"?
--
roses are #FF0000
violets are #0000FF
all my base
are belong to you
iwasaki
"Rambler III" wrote in message ...
>
> "R H Draney" <dado...@spamcop.net> wrote in message
> news:g5opr...@drn.newsguy.com...
>> Rambler III filted:
>>>
>>>"R H Draney" <dado...@spamcop.net> wrote in message
>>>news:g5ol0...@drn.newsguy.com...
>>>>
>>>> English: TOH-kee-oh
>>>> Japanese: toh-ooh-kyoh-ooh (theoretically equally stressed
>>>> throughout, but in
>>>> practice the first mora seems to be hit the hardest)
>>>
>>>Things change, but when I was there it was simply "To kyo". Two
>>>syllables "Toh-kyoh".
>>
>> Would somebody be so kind as to show this gaijin the word "Tokyo"
>> with
>> furigana?...r
>>
>
> Tokyo
> toh-ooh-kyoh-ooh
FYF:
http://www.geocities.jp/pianofortepianoforte/tokyo.mp3
I'm saying "Tokyo, Kyoto".
--
Nobuko Iwasaki
iwasaki
"Steve Hayes" wrote in message ...
> I pronounce it "toy" as in "toy", and "yota" as in "iota" with the stree
> on
> the the "o". So does moy son, who works with them. How do the Japanese
> pronounce it?
Like this:
http://www.geocities.jp/pianofortepianoforte/toyota.mp3
I also add Nissan, Matsuda, and Mitsubishi, after Toyota.
--
Nobuko Iwasaki
Rambler III
> I'm saying "Tokyo, Kyoto".
> -- Nobuko Iwasaki
You should an authority, Iwasaki-san.
Syllabification as indicated in the Geographical Names section of
M-WCD11th:
To kyo
Kyo to
To yo ta
R H Draney
Note, however, that the "kyo" in both "Tokyo" and "Kyoto" is the same syllable,
and has a long vowel....
The "to" in each name is a different character...the one in "Tokyo" has a long
vowel; the one in "Kyoto" a short vowel....r
Unknown
On 25 Jul 2008 13:49:39 -0700, R H Draney posted:
Sounds like the same vowel to my ear (in the "to" syllable of tokyo
and kyoto).
The more interesting one is the "toyota.mp3" file.
The "to" in toyota sounds almost like a schwa, though I can see how
that one might be considered s short vowel.
Mitsubishi surprised me. I expected more like "mits-oo-bsh"
Unknown
On Fri, 25 Jul 2008 21:32:29 +0900, iwasaki posted:
Is Matsuda a car brand? If so, it is by any chance the brand we would
call "Mazda"?
iwasaki
<Oleg Lego> wrote in message ...
>
> On Fri, 25 Jul 2008 21:32:29 +0900, iwasaki posted:
>
>>
>>"Steve Hayes" wrote in message ...
>>
>>> I pronounce it "toy" as in "toy", and "yota" as in "iota" with the stree
>>> on
>>> the the "o". So does moy son, who works with them. How do the Japanese
>>> pronounce it?
>>
>>Like this:
>>
>>http://www.geocities.jp/pianofortepianoforte/toyota.mp3
>>
>>I also add Nissan, Matsuda, and Mitsubishi, after Toyota.
>
> Is Matsuda a car brand? If so, it is by any chance the brand we would
> call "Mazda"?
Yes, the same one, and I should have written it as "Mazda" there.
The ordinary romanization of the word is "Matsuda", but the car
maker chose it written as "Mazda". Maybe they didn't want to be
called "mats-oo-da".
--
Nobuko Iwasaki
Unknown
On Sat, 26 Jul 2008 23:35:55 +0900, iwasaki posted:
Thank you. I found your voice files quite interesting. Now all I need
to do is to find a file of a Korean saying "Hyundai".
Maria C.
I can't seem to hear anything at that site. Do I need some special
voice-pack or something?
--
Maria C.
Richard Maurer
Like this:
http://www.geocities.jp/pianofortepianoforte/toyota.mp3
I also add Nissan, Matsuda, and Mitsubishi, after Toyota.
Maria C. wrote:
I can't seem to hear anything at that site. Do I need
some special voice-pack or something?
Not needed. It is just very soft. I had to crank up all
of my volume controls to hear it. The "Kyoto, Tokyo"
sample had an acceptable recording volume.
(I was looking for a sample of how Toyota commercials
say "Toyota" here, to pass back to Nobuko, but couldn't
narrow my search enough.)
-- ---------------------------------------------
Richard Maurer To reply, remove half
Sunnyvale, California of a homonym of a synonym for also.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
(And then they got us to watch a TV show that featured commercials.)
Mike M
> "Iwasaki":
>
> > > How do you pronounce "Toyota"? ...
>
> Athel Cornish-Bowden (copyedited):
>
> > I pronounce the first syllable as toy, the second as oh, and the last
> > (very weakly) as ah. The stress is on the second syllable...
>
> I don't think Athel really means that he says "Toyo-a".
>
Ah, but he might, with an estuary glottal stop.
"Allo John, got a new mo'ah?"
Mike M
Steve Hayes
>Yes, the same one, and I should have written it as "Mazda" there.
>The ordinary romanization of the word is "Matsuda", but the car
>maker chose it written as "Mazda". Maybe they didn't want to be
>called "mats-oo-da".
And Subaru?
--
Steve Hayes from Tshwane, South Africa
Web: http://hayesfam.bravehost.com/stevesig.htm
Blog: http://methodius.blogspot.com
E-mail - see web page, or parse: shayes at dunelm full stop org full stop uk
HVS
> On Sat, 26 Jul 2008 23:35:55 +0900, "iwasaki"
><pianofo...@mtg.biglobe.ne.jp> wrote:
>
>> Yes, the same one, and I should have written it as "Mazda" there.
>> The ordinary romanization of the word is "Matsuda", but the car
>> maker chose it written as "Mazda". Maybe they didn't want to be
>> called "mats-oo-da".
>
> And Subaru?
Slightly inferior to an aru, innit.
--
Cheers, Harvey
CanEng and BrEng, indiscriminately mixed
Mike M
> On Sat, 26 Jul 2008 23:35:55 +0900, "iwasaki"
>
> >Yes, the same one, and I should have written it as "Mazda" there.
> >The ordinary romanization of the word is "Matsuda", but the car
> >maker chose it written as "Mazda". Maybe they didn't want to be
> >called "mats-oo-da".
>
> And Subaru?
>
Being a typical BrE speaker, I always assumed it was soo-BAH-roo,
until a trip to the USA, where I first saw TV ads for SOO-baroo.
Must admit, that does sound better. Whether it's "correct" for a
Japanese speaker I couldn't say.
Mike M
Unknown
On Mon, 28 Jul 2008 09:10:32 +0100, HVS posted:
>On 28 Jul 2008, Steve Hayes wrote
>
>> On Sat, 26 Jul 2008 23:35:55 +0900, "iwasaki"
>><pianofo...@mtg.biglobe.ne.jp> wrote:
>>
>>> Yes, the same one, and I should have written it as "Mazda" there.
>>> The ordinary romanization of the word is "Matsuda", but the car
>>> maker chose it written as "Mazda". Maybe they didn't want to be
>>> called "mats-oo-da".
>>
>> And Subaru?
>
>Slightly inferior to an aru, innit.
It's ecologically friendly, though, if you spell it backwards.
"you are a bus".
R H Draney
>
>On Mon, 28 Jul 2008 09:10:32 +0100, HVS posted:
>
>>On 28 Jul 2008, Steve Hayes wrote
>>
>>
>>Slightly inferior to an aru, innit.
>
>It's ecologically friendly, though, if you spell it backwards.
>"you are a bus".
The Honda Odyssey backwards is pronounced "yes I do", the Chevy Lumina is
"animul", and Chrysler's Le Baron could be a character in a Faulkner novel....
Me, I drive a Civic....r
Unknown
On 29 Jul 2008 00:25:37 -0700, R H Draney posted:
And of course, there's the subject car, "a toyota".
R H Draney
>
>On 29 Jul 2008 00:25:37 -0700, R H Draney posted:
>>
>>"animul", and Chrysler's Le Baron could be a character in a Faulkner novel....
>>
>>Me, I drive a Civic....r
>
>And of course, there's the subject car, "a toyota".
Sit on a potato pan, Otis.
Richard Bollard
wrote:
Mine's a sucof. Thanks for that.
--
Richard Bollard
Canberra Australia
To email, I'm at AMT not spAMT.
R H Draney
>>"animul", and Chrysler's Le Baron could be a character in a Faulkner novel....
>>
>>Me, I drive a Civic....r
>
>Mine's a sucof. Thanks for that.
It's hard to see how such a thing is possible, but the Ford Probe becomes worse
this way....r
Frank ess
I'll avoid trying that with my Mustang. The family pupckip and 4var
are sort of atoyot-ish.
--
Frank ess
Peter Bennett
>
>On 29 Jul 2008 00:25:37 -0700, R H Draney posted:
>
>>Oleg Lego filted:
>>>
>>>On Mon, 28 Jul 2008 09:10:32 +0100, HVS posted:
>>>
>>>>On 28 Jul 2008, Steve Hayes wrote
>>>>
>>>>> And Subaru?
>>>>
>>>>Slightly inferior to an aru, innit.
>>>
>>>It's ecologically friendly, though, if you spell it backwards.
>>>"you are a bus".
>>
>>The Honda Odyssey backwards is pronounced "yes I do", the Chevy Lumina is
>>"animul", and Chrysler's Le Baron could be a character in a Faulkner novel....
>>
>>Me, I drive a Civic....r
>
>And of course, there's the subject car, "a toyota".
I'd prefer a _real_ Ota.
--
Peter Bennett, VE7CEI
peterbb4 (at) interchange.ubc.ca
GPS and NMEA info: http://vancouver-webpages.com/peter
Vancouver Power Squadron: http://vancouver.powersquadron.ca
Mark Brader
>> Slightly inferior to an aru, innit.
>
> It's ecologically friendly, though, if you spell it backwards.
> "you are a bus".
This reminds me of the bus system on the island of Aruba: the Arubus.
--
Mark Brader, Toronto | "Domine, defende nos
m...@vex.net | Contra hos motores bos!" -- A. D. Godley
R H Draney
>
>>>> And Subaru?
>
>>> Slightly inferior to an aru, innit.
>>
>> It's ecologically friendly, though, if you spell it backwards.
>> "you are a bus".
>
>This reminds me of the bus system on the island of Aruba: the Arubus.
Thread merge!...the pneumatic "goods transport" system on the Starship Titanic
is the "Succ-U-Bus"....r
iwasaki
"Mike M" wrote in message ...
Maybe it's closer.
http://www.geocities.jp/pianofortepianoforte/subaru.mp3
--
Nobuko Iwasaki
Unknown
On 29 Jul 2008 17:58:39 -0700, R H Draney posted:
>--
>Evelyn Wood just looks at the pictures.
I took an Evelyn Wood course, then read War and Peace in 45 minutes.
I think it was about Russia.
Unknown
On Tue, 5 Aug 2008 00:22:45 +0900, iwasaki posted:
The pronunciation that surprised me most was a brand name of a
tractor. The "Belarus", in Saskatchewan, is universally pronounced
"b@-LAR-us", where the "@" is a schwa and the
"LAR" is the same as the first syllable in "Larry".
angelgl...@yahoo.com
> On 29 Jul 2008 17:58:39 -0700, R H Draney posted:
>
>
>>--
>>Evelyn Wood just looks at the pictures.
>
>
> I took an Evelyn Wood course, then read War and Peace in 45 minutes.
> I think it was about Russia.
>
I read it even faster than you: in about 10 minutes; and my reading
comprehension was better than yours: it's about peace and war.
Robert Bannister
I thought it was about learning the names of 143 characters, with first
names, patronymics, surnames, nicknames and various diminutives.
--
Rob Bannister
angelgl...@yahoo.com
You're confusing theme and characters. I bet you never took a class in
English Literature.
Peter Duncanson (BrE)
wrote:
I'm with Rob on this one. The need to learn "names of 143
characters, with first names, patronymics, surnames, nicknames
and various diminutives" is a serious obstacle to getting to
grips with the themes of the work.
--
Peter Duncanson, UK
(in alt.usage.english)
angelgl...@yahoo.com
"tongue-in-cheek," in the direction the thread had already gone (see my
don't like smileys, but a smiley should have been implicit considering
the (rhetorical) register of the thread. That's the problem with
replying to an item in a thread without understanding the entire thread.
Who knows, however? Maybe your post is intended to be facetious too,
though it doesn't seem that way.
Donna Richoux
> >Robert Bannister wrote:
[snip re War and Peace]
> >> I thought it was about learning the names of 143 characters, with first
> >> names, patronymics, surnames, nicknames and various diminutives.
> >>
[snip]
> I'm with Rob on this one. The need to learn "names of 143
> characters, with first names, patronymics, surnames, nicknames
> and various diminutives" is a serious obstacle to getting to
> grips with the themes of the work.
The edition in our house -- Modern Library? -- had a cheat sheet listing
all the characters, their names, and relationships. I can't think of any
other book that came with a loose reference sheet stuck in like that, as
opposed to an appendix or foreword. It was an excellent idea.
--
Best -- Donna Richoux
James Silverton
> >> Robert Bannister wrote:
I don't remember what edition it was but the version of "War and Peace"
that I first read had a similar cheat sheet in the shape of a bookmark.
I really appreciated it too even if my memory then (20 yrs old) was
better than now.
--
James Silverton
Potomac, Maryland
Email, with obvious alterations: not.jim.silverton.at.verizon.not
Peter Duncanson (BrE)
wrote:
>>
>> I'm with Rob on this one. The need to learn "names of 143
>> characters, with first names, patronymics, surnames, nicknames
>> and various diminutives" is a serious obstacle to getting to
>> grips with the themes of the work.
>>
>I'm not getting involved in this except to say I was writing
>"tongue-in-cheek," in the direction the thread had already gone (see my
>"I read it even faster than you: in about 10 minutes; and my reading
>compreshension was better than yours: it's about peace and ear"). I
>don't like smileys, but a smiley should have been implicit considering
>the (rhetorical) register of the thread. That's the problem with
>replying to an item in a thread without understanding the entire thread.
>Who knows, however? Maybe your post is intended to be facetious too,
>though it doesn't seem that way.
I wasn't being facetious. If Rob's comments were facetious they
were based on a serious point. I was commenting on the serious
point.
Frank ess
"reSIST the URGE to exPLAIN"
-Screenwriter and Oscar nominee in an AOL chatroom
--
Frank ess
angelgl...@yahoo.com
Well, I'm still getting to grips with who plays Cleopatra in the Joseph
Manckewicz movie. Seriously, it brings up a related issue of
translation. This may be a scandalous suggestion but one wonders if
readers would be better off simply giving new names to these characters,
or at least anglicizing the names (Nat[alie]), etc. Another related
issue, one wonders why modern translations keep those interminable
"thous" in ancient religious texts (esp. Buddhist) and related familiar
constructions/conjugations ("thou lovest"). I've never understood why we
don't translate those constructions in the more familiar formal manner
("you love," etc.), or as Ira put it, "he loves, and she loves, and they
love." It's one of my pet peeves.
Irwell
Your bloody little mitt is cold, Mimi.