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"Well Said" vs. "Well Spoken"
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Percival
Jun 22, 2014, 3:48:47 PM6/22/14
to
Occasionally I read "well spoken" used to describe the quality of a
statement rather than the eloquence of the speaker. Various
online-accessible authorities disagree on which is preferable, but I
consider "well said" to be appropriate for the statement, and "well
spoken" for the speaker. Is there any consensus in this group?
Mark L. Fergerson
statement rather than the eloquence of the speaker. Various
online-accessible authorities disagree on which is preferable, but I
consider "well said" to be appropriate for the statement, and "well
spoken" for the speaker. Is there any consensus in this group?
Mark L. Fergerson
Bertel Lund Hansen
Jun 22, 2014, 5:15:54 PM6/22/14
to
Percival skrev:
Pedantically there is the difference that you describe, but would
you say "Well spoken" if someone uttered some horrible nonsense
with a beautiful voice?
I don't think there is any practical difference. And it's:
Speak for yourself!
not
Say for yourself!
--
bertel.lundhansen.dk fiduso.dk obese.dk
you say "Well spoken" if someone uttered some horrible nonsense
with a beautiful voice?
I don't think there is any practical difference. And it's:
Speak for yourself!
not
Say for yourself!
--
bertel.lundhansen.dk fiduso.dk obese.dk
Arcadian Rises
Jun 22, 2014, 5:27:43 PM6/22/14
to
On Sunday, June 22, 2014 5:15:54 PM UTC-4, Bertel Lund Hansen wrote:
> Percival skrev:
>
>
>
> > Occasionally I read "well spoken" used to describe the quality of a
>
> > statement rather than the eloquence of the speaker. Various
>
> > online-accessible authorities disagree on which is preferable, but I
>
> > consider "well said" to be appropriate for the statement, and "well
>
> > spoken" for the speaker. Is there any consensus in this group?
>
>
>
> Pedantically there is the difference that you describe, but would
>
> you say "Well spoken" if someone uttered some horrible nonsense
>
> with a beautiful voice?
That's a good one!
> Percival skrev:
>
>
>
> > Occasionally I read "well spoken" used to describe the quality of a
>
> > statement rather than the eloquence of the speaker. Various
>
> > online-accessible authorities disagree on which is preferable, but I
>
> > consider "well said" to be appropriate for the statement, and "well
>
> > spoken" for the speaker. Is there any consensus in this group?
>
>
>
> Pedantically there is the difference that you describe, but would
>
> you say "Well spoken" if someone uttered some horrible nonsense
>
> with a beautiful voice?
Which reminds me a war joke: on the battlefield in Italy the general thunders:
"Avanti, retimente!"
And il regimento answered admiringly: "Che bella voce!"
Stan Brown
Jun 22, 2014, 10:31:14 PM6/22/14
to
On Sun, 22 Jun 2014 12:48:47 -0700, Percival wrote:
> Occasionally I read "well spoken" used to describe the quality of a
> statement rather than the eloquence of the speaker.
>
That's a blunder. A statement can be well _said_ but a person is well
> Occasionally I read "well spoken" used to describe the quality of a
> statement rather than the eloquence of the speaker.
>
spoken.
--
"The difference between the /almost right/ word and the /right/ word
is ... the difference between the lightning-bug and the lightning."
--Mark Twain
Stan Brown, Tompkins County, NY, USA http://OakRoadSystems.com
Uncle Ben
Jun 26, 2014, 10:49:40 AM6/26/14
to
On 6/22/2014 10:31 PM, Stan Brown wrote:
> On Sun, 22 Jun 2014 12:48:47 -0700, Percival wrote:
>> Occasionally I read "well spoken" used to describe the quality of a
>> statement rather than the eloquence of the speaker.
>>
>
> That's a blunder. A statement can be well _said_ but a person is well
> spoken.
>
Agreed. Definitely.
> On Sun, 22 Jun 2014 12:48:47 -0700, Percival wrote:
>> Occasionally I read "well spoken" used to describe the quality of a
>> statement rather than the eloquence of the speaker.
>>
>
> That's a blunder. A statement can be well _said_ but a person is well
> spoken.
>
--
Uncle Ben
Mike L
Jun 26, 2014, 6:32:07 PM6/26/14
to
On Thu, 26 Jun 2014 10:49:40 -0400, Uncle Ben <bgr...@nycap.rr.com>
wrote:
Yes, but let's keep in mind that "Well spoken!" is as idiomatic a bit
of applause as "Well played!" or "Well done!"
--
Mike.
wrote:
of applause as "Well played!" or "Well done!"
--
Mike.
Stan Brown
Jun 26, 2014, 8:49:43 PM6/26/14
to
contradict it.
Robert Bannister
Jun 26, 2014, 11:24:23 PM6/26/14
to
an adjective to describe how someone speaks.
--
Robert Bannister - 1940-71 SE England
1972-now W Australia
Guy Barry
Jun 27, 2014, 1:50:59 AM6/27/14
to
"Mike L" wrote in message
news:jo7pq9du29ntvpl1j...@4ax.com...
Is it? I'd certainly say "Well said!" rather than "Well spoken!"
Does anyone know *why* we use "well spoken" to describe a speaker, though?
The use of the passive participle here seems highly anomalous; perhaps it
can be explained as a rare active use of the form as in "fallen angel", but
as far as I know this is normally restricted to intransitive verbs. You
wouldn't say that someone who writes well is "well written".
--
Guy Barry
news:jo7pq9du29ntvpl1j...@4ax.com...
Does anyone know *why* we use "well spoken" to describe a speaker, though?
The use of the passive participle here seems highly anomalous; perhaps it
can be explained as a rare active use of the form as in "fallen angel", but
as far as I know this is normally restricted to intransitive verbs. You
wouldn't say that someone who writes well is "well written".
--
Guy Barry
pauljk
Jun 28, 2014, 1:13:01 AM6/28/14
to
"Guy Barry" <guy....@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote in message news:3D7rv.163867$9r4....@fx32.am4...
pjk
Guy Barry
Jun 29, 2014, 3:32:24 AM6/29/14
to
"pauljk" wrote in message news:lolit0$1tf$1...@dont-email.me...
"well read"?
--
Guy Barry
>> Does anyone know *why* we use "well spoken" to describe a speaker,
>> though? The use of the passive participle here seems highly anomalous;
>> perhaps it can be explained as a rare active use of the form as in
>> "fallen angel", but as far as I know this is normally restricted to
>> intransitive verbs. You wouldn't say that someone who writes well is
>> "well written".
>
>If someone writes well he is probably "well read" too.
I hadn't thought of that one. Are there any others like "well spoken" and
>> though? The use of the passive participle here seems highly anomalous;
>> perhaps it can be explained as a rare active use of the form as in
>> "fallen angel", but as far as I know this is normally restricted to
>> intransitive verbs. You wouldn't say that someone who writes well is
>> "well written".
>
>If someone writes well he is probably "well read" too.
"well read"?
--
Guy Barry
CDB
Jun 29, 2014, 6:52:29 AM6/29/14
to
On 28/06/2014 1:13 AM, pauljk wrote:
> "Guy Barry" <guy....@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:
>> "Mike L" wrote: Uncle Ben <bgr...@nycap.rr.com> wrote:
you have well read; you are well come.
Maybe connected with the early confusion of active and passive forms,
after the preposition was dropped from the phrasal-present-participle
construction that replaced the "-end"-form ("on building" >
"a-building") as in "the house is building"? In this case, it would be
an aphetic perfect active confused with the present passive found in
"well-taken" or "well-built". Is it "you are" or "you have" well fed?
> "Guy Barry" <guy....@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:
>> "Mike L" wrote: Uncle Ben <bgr...@nycap.rr.com> wrote:
>>>> Stan Brown wrote:
>>>>> Percival wrote:
>>>>>> Occasionally I read "well spoken" used to describe the
>>>>>> quality of a statement rather than the eloquence of the
>>>>>> speaker.
>>>>> That's a blunder. A statement can be well _said_ but a person
>>>>> is well spoken.
>>>> Agreed. Definitely.
>>> Yes, but let's keep in mind that "Well spoken!" is as idiomatic a
>>> bit of applause as "Well played!" or "Well done!"
>> Is it? I'd certainly say "Well said!" rather than "Well spoken!"
>> Does anyone know *why* we use "well spoken" to describe a speaker,
>> though? The use of the passive participle here seems highly
>> anomalous; perhaps it can be explained as a rare active use of the
>> form as in "fallen angel", but as far as I know this is normally
>> restricted to intransitive verbs. You wouldn't say that someone
>> who writes well is "well written".
> If someone writes well he is probably "well read" too.
There seem to be a number of those with "well". You have well spoken;
>>>>> Percival wrote:
>>>>>> Occasionally I read "well spoken" used to describe the
>>>>>> quality of a statement rather than the eloquence of the
>>>>>> speaker.
>>>>> That's a blunder. A statement can be well _said_ but a person
>>>>> is well spoken.
>>>> Agreed. Definitely.
>>> Yes, but let's keep in mind that "Well spoken!" is as idiomatic a
>>> bit of applause as "Well played!" or "Well done!"
>> Is it? I'd certainly say "Well said!" rather than "Well spoken!"
>> Does anyone know *why* we use "well spoken" to describe a speaker,
>> though? The use of the passive participle here seems highly
>> anomalous; perhaps it can be explained as a rare active use of the
>> form as in "fallen angel", but as far as I know this is normally
>> restricted to intransitive verbs. You wouldn't say that someone
>> who writes well is "well written".
> If someone writes well he is probably "well read" too.
you have well read; you are well come.
Maybe connected with the early confusion of active and passive forms,
after the preposition was dropped from the phrasal-present-participle
construction that replaced the "-end"-form ("on building" >
"a-building") as in "the house is building"? In this case, it would be
an aphetic perfect active confused with the present passive found in
"well-taken" or "well-built". Is it "you are" or "you have" well fed?
Robert Bannister
Jun 30, 2014, 2:18:44 AM6/30/14
to
almost good enough to be one word.
Guy Barry
Jun 30, 2014, 3:10:35 AM6/30/14
to
"Robert Bannister" wrote in message
news:c1cdq5...@mid.individual.net...
"Well known" is just a normal passive use of the participle, so isn't
relevant here. I'm looking for examples where the participle is used in an
active sense; you're well spoken if you speak well, and you're well read if
you read a lot. "Well hung" could certainly qualify (someone who hangs
well, in a sense).
--
Guy Barry
news:c1cdq5...@mid.individual.net...
relevant here. I'm looking for examples where the participle is used in an
active sense; you're well spoken if you speak well, and you're well read if
you read a lot. "Well hung" could certainly qualify (someone who hangs
well, in a sense).
--
Guy Barry
Jack Campin
Jun 30, 2014, 5:47:13 AM6/30/14
to
>>>> Does anyone know *why* we use "well spoken" to describe a speaker,
>>>> though? The use of the passive participle here seems highly
>>>> anomalous; perhaps it can be explained as a rare active use of the
>>>> form as in "fallen angel", but as far as I know this is normally
>>>> restricted to intransitive verbs. You wouldn't say that someone
>>>> who writes well is "well written".
>>> If someone writes well he is probably "well read" too.
>> I hadn't thought of that one. Are there any others like "well spoken"
>> and "well read"?
> I hesitate to mention the verb "to hang". "Well-known", however, is
> almost good enough to be one word.
"Well known" is a passive usage, though - it's not the famous person
>>>> though? The use of the passive participle here seems highly
>>>> anomalous; perhaps it can be explained as a rare active use of the
>>>> form as in "fallen angel", but as far as I know this is normally
>>>> restricted to intransitive verbs. You wouldn't say that someone
>>>> who writes well is "well written".
>>> If someone writes well he is probably "well read" too.
>> I hadn't thought of that one. Are there any others like "well spoken"
>> and "well read"?
> I hesitate to mention the verb "to hang". "Well-known", however, is
> almost good enough to be one word.
who's doing the knowing. Same goes for well formed, well trodden,
well fired (of bread rolls) etc.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
e m a i l : j a c k @ c a m p i n . m e . u k
Jack Campin, 11 Third Street, Newtongrange, Midlothian EH22 4PU, Scotland
mobile 07800 739 557 <http://www.campin.me.uk> Twitter: JackCampin
Dr Nick
Jun 30, 2014, 1:16:55 PM6/30/14
to
Jack Campin <bo...@purr.demon.co.uk> writes:
>>>>> Does anyone know *why* we use "well spoken" to describe a speaker,
>>>>> though? The use of the passive participle here seems highly
>>>>> anomalous; perhaps it can be explained as a rare active use of the
>>>>> form as in "fallen angel", but as far as I know this is normally
>>>>> restricted to intransitive verbs. You wouldn't say that someone
>>>>> who writes well is "well written".
>>>> If someone writes well he is probably "well read" too.
>>> I hadn't thought of that one. Are there any others like "well spoken"
>>> and "well read"?
>> I hesitate to mention the verb "to hang". "Well-known", however, is
>> almost good enough to be one word.
>
> "Well known" is a passive usage, though - it's not the famous person
> who's doing the knowing. Same goes for well formed, well trodden,
> well fired (of bread rolls) etc.
"Well hard" of gangsters etc, "well fit" of boy bands etc.
>>>>> Does anyone know *why* we use "well spoken" to describe a speaker,
>>>>> though? The use of the passive participle here seems highly
>>>>> anomalous; perhaps it can be explained as a rare active use of the
>>>>> form as in "fallen angel", but as far as I know this is normally
>>>>> restricted to intransitive verbs. You wouldn't say that someone
>>>>> who writes well is "well written".
>>>> If someone writes well he is probably "well read" too.
>>> I hadn't thought of that one. Are there any others like "well spoken"
>>> and "well read"?
>> I hesitate to mention the verb "to hang". "Well-known", however, is
>> almost good enough to be one word.
>
> "Well known" is a passive usage, though - it's not the famous person
> who's doing the knowing. Same goes for well formed, well trodden,
> well fired (of bread rolls) etc.
Tony Cooper
Jun 30, 2014, 1:21:22 PM6/30/14
to
an etc?
--
Tony Cooper - Orlando FL
Dr Nick
Jun 30, 2014, 4:00:57 PM6/30/14
to
('&c' as my grandmother used to spell it) but perhaps also a gangster.
Robert Bannister
Jun 30, 2014, 11:33:57 PM6/30/14
to
set.
Robert Bannister
Jun 30, 2014, 11:35:58 PM6/30/14
to
for "very". Not even slang really, although "well" hasn't been used in
quite that way for a very long time.
Guy Barry
Jul 1, 2014, 5:17:39 AM7/1/14
to
"Dr Nick" wrote in message news:87r426e...@temporary-address.org.uk...
>
>Jack Campin <bo...@purr.demon.co.uk> writes:
[Guy Barry wrote:]
following the discussion?
--
Guy Barry
>
>Jack Campin <bo...@purr.demon.co.uk> writes:
[Guy Barry wrote:]
>>>>>> Does anyone know *why* we use "well spoken" to describe a speaker,
>>>>>> though?
[...]
>>>>>> though?
>> "Well known" is a passive usage, though - it's not the famous person
>> who's doing the knowing. Same goes for well formed, well trodden,
>> well fired (of bread rolls) etc.
>
>"Well hard" of gangsters etc, "well fit" of boy bands etc.
Neither of those is a participle, either active or passive. Are you
>> who's doing the knowing. Same goes for well formed, well trodden,
>> well fired (of bread rolls) etc.
>
>"Well hard" of gangsters etc, "well fit" of boy bands etc.
following the discussion?
--
Guy Barry
Guy Barry
Jul 1, 2014, 9:44:12 AM7/1/14
to
"Guy Barry" wrote in message news:T0vsv.216735$vj7....@fx27.am4...
I've just thought of another one: "well travelled". (Hope Dr Nick has got
the idea now.)
--
Guy Barry
the idea now.)
--
Guy Barry
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