Sub-mariners or submarine-ers.
Ned Kelly
I have a good question: What is the proper pronunciation of "submariner"?
OK, 150 men climb aboard a sub, go driveabout, and 75 couples emerge
after the voyage. Now, are these couples called SUB-mariners or
submarine-ERS? Navy people will pronounce it like what you would get if
you attached the prefix sub- to the word mariner while in civilian life
people attach the -er to the word submarine. I tend to use the latter
pronunciation.
--
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James Eason
> after the voyage. Now, are these couples called SUB-mariners or
> submarine-ERS?
Rex Knepp
: I have a good question: What is the proper pronunciation of "submariner"?
: OK, 150 men climb aboard a sub, go driveabout, and 75 couples emerge
: after the voyage. Now, are these couples called SUB-mariners or
: submarine-ERS? Navy people will pronounce it like what you would get if
: you attached the prefix sub- to the word mariner while in civilian life
: people attach the -er to the word submarine. I tend to use the latter
: pronunciation.
According to my father-in-law, whose tour of duty in the US Navy was
spent on a submarine, neither of the above is correct. He says it's
sub-MARiner. The closest dictionary (WNCD9) lists three - count 'em -
three pronuncations, of which his is number two. Your second choice is
number one, and the third accents the penultimate syllable: submaREEners.
I'll forgive your not consulting a dictionary if you'll kindly explain
what "go driveabout" means -- actually, since it's obvious from context,
if you'll explain why it's one word instead of two.
-30-
rex
============================================================================
kn...@hou.moc.com
Rex Knepp - Marathon Oil Company - Tyler, TX
Marathon has no opinions: these are, therefore, mine.
=============================================================================
Simon Slavin
James Eason <jea...@midway.uchicago.edu> wrote:
> > OK, 150 men climb aboard a sub, go driveabout, and 75 couples emerge
> > after the voyage. Now, are these couples called SUB-mariners or
> > submarine-ERS?
>
> They're called "sailors".
Which is true, but ironic because
(1) Submarines don't have sails.
(2) Submarines don't 'sail': a sailing submarine would never get below
the surface.
How about calling them 'men' like you did originally ? <g>
Simon.
--
"Sometimes a .sig is just a .sig." -- Sigmund Freud.
My email address will change soon. sla...@somewhere.else may be me.
Markus Laker
> I'll forgive your not consulting a dictionary if you'll kindly explain
> what "go driveabout" means -- actually, since it's obvious from context,
> if you'll explain why it's one word instead of two.
Perhaps it's by analogy with the noun 'walkabout'. I don't know whether
'walkabout' has reached the US. Here in the UK, a walkabout is a time for a
visiting dignitary (typically a member of the Royal Family) to meet the
public, go into shops at random, and generally give the security services a
hard time. Recently, I've heard the term gain a wider range of meanings:
if a toddler goes walkabout, it wanders off aimlessly. If an object goes
walkabout, it has been lost, stolen or hidden by the toddler.
Alternative, harsher explanation: anyone who would post the sentence
OK, 150 men climb aboard a sub, go driveabout, and 75 couples emerge
after the voyage
doesn't care *how* many words there are in 'driveabout'.
Markus.
Peter Adams
<sla...@entergrp.demon.co.uk> writes
>Submarines don't have sails.
Surely there must be a submariner on this group who will torpedo this
statement.
You're not going to leave it to a poor old infantryman, are you?
--
Peter Adams
Lincolnshire, England
Simon Slavin
Peter Adams <pe...@brig.demon.co.uk> wrote:
> In article <AD67BD43...@entergrp.demon.co.uk>, Simon Slavin
> <sla...@entergrp.demon.co.uk> writes
> >Submarines don't have sails.
>
> Surely there must be a submariner on this group who will torpedo this
> statement.
Emergency stations. Hull breach. Arooooooga !
I have been corrected by email and post. My definitions were based
on a non-technical dictionary which mentioned 'movement of enclosing
medium' in the definition of the noun 'sail' and 'travel on the
surface' in the definition of the verb 'sail'. Apologies.
For some reason I pronounce it 'submarEENer'; possibly due to exposure
to children's cartoons.
Ned Kelly
Suzanne wrote:
: I've only ever heard it pronounced as subMARiners, with the "a" in the
: stressed syllable sounding like the "a" in "pat".
I never heard it with a short "a". Your pronunciation is close to the Navy
method. I heard both pronunciations, the Navy one way, and civilians the
other. I use the submarINErs pronunciation. (The civilian method.)
--
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I support Patrick Buchanan - becuse of the Vladamir Zirinowski Endorsement!
WARNING: Unsolicited adverts in my mailbox are subject to a fee of one
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acceptance to these terms.
Gregory Resch
> ...For some reason I pronounce it 'submarEENer'; possibly due to exposure
> to children's cartoons.
The provenance you suggest puzzles me, but your pronunciation is quite
right.
I skipped a lot of the follow-ups in this thread when terminal silliness
(theirs, not mine) set in, so I'm also puzzled that it took so long for
the correct pronunciation to be posted. Evidence of popular detachment
from matters military in the post-Cold-War era?
--
Peter Adams
<Tekm...@MAILHOST.NET> writes
>Submarines DO have sails, though not
>for the same purpose as on a sailing vessel.
I am delighted to find that my faith in the omniscience of a.u.e.
readers was not misplaced.
Joseph Hennessy, MD
>
>Suzanne wrote:
>
>: I've only ever heard it pronounced as subMARiners, with the "a" in the
>: stressed syllable sounding like the "a" in "pat".
>
>I never heard it with a short "a". Your pronunciation is close to the Navy
>method. I heard both pronunciations, the Navy one way, and civilians the
>other. I use the submarINErs pronunciation. (The civilian method.)
>
accent on the 2nd syllable, it sure wasn't by anyone who ever served
aboard a USNavy boat. Perhaps in the "brown shoe" Navy or in some other
Navy the word is pronounced that way, but we dolphin-types (qualified in
submarines, USNavy) accent the 3rd syllable. If there is any doubt, ask
the question of sci.military.naval where the conoscenti live. So, if the
civilians pronounce it that way, good.
Now, about that 75 pair of sweethearts emerging from submarine patrol
stuff in the original post... try running THAT past the
sci.military.naval group. You may quickly come to understand another
submarine term, "fire one!"
Joe Hennessy (ex-submarine medical officer 1970-72)
Cissy . Thorpe
Most members of the US Navy that I know don't serve aboard boats....they
are on ships. That kinda blows your credibility there.
MARE-IN-ERS has been an acceptable pronounciation for sailors for a long,
long time - well before the US even had a navy. Brits say
sub-mare-in-ers. But, then again, they didn't invent the things (ship
that goes underwater).
Cissy
Hedbanger
>Would Sub-MARINe-er be someone or something below a Marine? As any good
>NAVY man knows, there is nothing lower than a marine :)
Hi Cissy,
I've been enjoying your posts. I moved away from the Houston area 25
years ago and you're making me homesick!
My S.O. the RoboOne, a former Marine, says that sailors are just
chauffeurs.
---
- J.Faires
- Hedbanger - hedb...@hooked.net
---
- If you're not part of the solution
- you're part of the precipitate.
---
Mark Anthony Beadles
"Cissy . Thorpe" <cth...@lonestar.jpl.utsa.edu> wrote:
>Most members of the US Navy that I know don't serve aboard boats....they
>are on ships. That kinda blows your credibility there.
>
<snip>
>
>Cissy
True, most seagoing vessels in the U.S. Navy ARE known as "ships".
With the notable exception of submarines, which are properly known
as "boats". When you say "most members of the US Navy that I know",
do you actually know any that have served on a submarine?
==== Mark Anthony Beadles
==== mailto:bea...@acm.org
==== http://www.acm.org/~beadles
Joe Talanoa
>
>Most members of the US Navy that I know don't serve aboard boats....they
>are on ships. That kinda blows your credibility there.
>
>long time - well before the US even had a navy. Brits say
>sub-mare-in-ers. But, then again, they didn't invent the things (ship
>that goes underwater).
>
_boats_ at least by those who man them. Any member of the USN that you
know should be able to verify that for you. I actually don't recall why
we call submarines boats (visualize my consternation at my own ignorance)
but I have just fired off an enquiry to my old COB, who knows everything
there is to know about submarine lore. COB, by the way, is another
unofficial term among submarEENers, an acronym refering to the senior
chief petty officer of the submarine's crew--he is the Chief-of-the-boat.
He reigns supreme in another quaintly named part of the submarine known
as the _goat locker_, which is the berthing area for all chief petty
officers aboard.
I'm not sure why having my credibility questioned is so important to me,
but I assure you, Cissy, in this matter I tell you the truth. Joe
Hennessy, former LCDR, USN MC, 1968-73, last operational duty aboard
subs USS Nathan Hale SSBN-623 (vis unita fortior)..
Ned Kelly
James Eason (jea...@midway.uchicago.edu) wrote:
: > OK, 150 men climb aboard a sub, go driveabout, and 75 couples emerge
: > after the voyage. Now, are these couples called SUB-mariners or
: > submarine-ERS?
: They're called "sailors".
Well, if you're going to get off the topic of the thread, here's another
word:
Losers
Mike Connally
> This one just won't die easily...if you have heard it pronounced with
|> accent on the 2nd syllable, it sure wasn't by anyone who ever served
|> aboard a USNavy boat. Perhaps in the "brown shoe" Navy or in some other
|> Navy the word is pronounced that way, but we dolphin-types (qualified in
|> submarines, USNavy) accent the 3rd syllable. If there is any doubt, ask
|> the question of sci.military.naval where the conoscenti live. So, if the
|> civilians pronounce it that way, good.
This is another of those UK-US differences. The submariners
I know in the Royal Navy accent the second syllable. I believe,
as you say, those in the US Navy would accent the third.
RN: sub-MARE-in-er
USN: sub-ma-REEN-er
--
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+44 (0)1734 499235 | Aspen, Barley Way,
Email address under construction and | Ancells Park, Fleet,
subject to change without notice.... | Hants GU13 8UT England
scott goehring
In article <Pine.SOL.3.91.960315...@lonestar.jpl.utsa.edu>,
Cissy . Thorpe <cth...@lonestar.jpl.utsa.edu> wrote:
>Most members of the US Navy that I know don't serve aboard boats....they
>are on ships. That kinda blows your credibility there.
no, it blows yours. submarines are "boats", not "ships". anyone who
calls a sub a "ship" has never served anywhere near the submarine
service.
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John Davies
>
>This is another of those UK-US differences. The submariners
>I know in the Royal Navy accent the second syllable. I believe,
>as you say, those in the US Navy would accent the third.
>
>RN: sub-MARE-in-er
>USN: sub-ma-REEN-er
>
Not quite right. In UK naval usage the stress is indeed on the second
syllable, but the vowel is short and hard, as in cat, *not* as in the
word for a female horse, which is how I interpret your spelling.
My credentials, and a caution: I served aboard a submarine depot ship
during my time in the Royal Navy. The caution? - it was 40 years ago.
But I doubt that usage would have changed in such a conservative
environment.
John Davies
Gregory Resch
> ...submarines are "boats", not "ships". anyone who calls a sub a
Submarines are ships. Sailors traditionally call them "boats" now only as
an affectionate form of jargon. Consider: "United States Ship George
Washington" (or "U.S.S. Kamehameha", etc.). {Although perhaps the U.S. Navy
itself "has never served anywhere near the submarine service."}
Puzzler!...
Among sailors there is a strict distinction made between a "boat"
and a "ship". (It also explains why submarines were traditionally
called "boats").
Can anyone (who knows) describe that distinction? (It takes but
nine or ten words.)
--
Ned Kelly
scott goehring (sgoe...@copper.ucs.indiana.edu) wrote:
: -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
: In article <Pine.SOL.3.91.960315...@lonestar.jpl.utsa.edu>,
: Cissy . Thorpe <cth...@lonestar.jpl.utsa.edu> wrote:
: no, it blows yours. submarines are "boats", not "ships". anyone who
: calls a sub a "ship" has never served anywhere near the submarine
: service.
There are a hell of a lot more people on targets, which are ships than
submariners, who serve on boats. I hope this clears this issue up.
^^^^^^^^^^^
Now, back to the topic of this thread. What is the _correct_
pronunciation of submariner? Now, is it subMARiner, the Navy
pronunciation or submarINEr, the civilian method? And, how do Aussies
pronounce it?
Joseph Hennessy, MD
>
>Submarines are ships. Sailors traditionally call them "boats" now only as
>an affectionate form of jargon. Consider: "United States Ship George
>Washington" (or "U.S.S. Kamehameha", etc.). {Although perhaps the U.S. Navy
>itself "has never served anywhere near the submarine service."}
>
>
>Puzzler!...
>
> Among sailors there is a strict distinction made between a "boat"
> and a "ship". (It also explains why submarines were traditionally
> called "boats").
>
> Can anyone (who knows) describe that distinction? (It takes but
> nine or ten words.)
Part of the reason submarines are called "boats" is in the distinction
drawn between boats...vessels small enough to be placed aboard...ships.
Early experimental diesel submarines were quite small, and were actually
transported aboard ships. Considering today's trident submarines, at
over 600ft., makes that impossible. But, traditions remain. But, can
anyone explain why chief petty officers aboard submarines are berthed in
the "goat locker"?
Joe Hennessy (a former submarine medical officer)
>--
Bill Fisher
> sgoe...@copper.ucs.indiana.edu (scott goehring) writes:
> > "ship" has never served anywhere near the submarine service.
>
>
> Submarines are ships. Sailors traditionally call them "boats" now only as
> an affectionate form of jargon. Consider: "United States Ship George
> Washington" (or "U.S.S. Kamehameha", etc.). {Although perhaps the U.S. Navy
> itself "has never served anywhere near the submarine service."}
>
>
> Puzzler!...
>
> Among sailors there is a strict distinction made between a "boat"
> and a "ship". (It also explains why submarines were traditionally
> called "boats").
>
> Can anyone (who knows) describe that distinction? (It takes but
> nine or ten words.)
>
My understanding is that a boat is any vessel that can be carried
on another vessel.
Did I get it right? Oh well, let's call it four bells.
- billf
Ned Kelly
Gregory Resch (re...@cpcug.org) wrote:
: Can anyone (who knows) describe that distinction? (It takes but
: nine or ten words.)
No worries, (ship)mate! You can place a boat onto a ship, but it's bloody
difficult to place the ship onto the boat! (and still have it float.)
--
Ned Kelly Lives!!!!!!
"Give me 2 trillion tons of antimatter, and I'll remove the world."
"Let them eat VCRs" --Marie Antoinette, paraphrased and modernised.
Ned Kelly
: > --
: > Ned Kelly Lives!!!!!!
: No argument here (other than with the punctuation; that's my ObAUE).
: > "Give me 2 trillion tons of antimatter, and I'll remove the world."
: I'm no expert in explosives, but I reckon you could destroy the earth with a
: few tons of antimatter, tops.
You might make the earth unlivable, but it was calculated by someone in
alt.destroy.the.earth that the 2 trillion tons would be needed to do the
job right - vapourise the earth! The planet weighs sextillions of tons,
and the vapourised rock would have to be hot enough to expand at 25,000
MPH to prevent the planet from re-forming. I hope that helps!
Gregory Resch
> Gregory Resch (re...@cpcug.org) wrote:
> : Can anyone (who knows) describe that distinction [between "ship"
> : and "boat"]? (It takes but nine or ten words.)
>
> ...You can place a boat onto a ship, but it's bloody
> difficult to place the ship onto the boat! (and still have it float.)
That's unclear as to what the "it" would be that would still float.
The traditional distinction is that a ship can easily cross an ocean but
a boat normally can't. Heroic crossings in boats tend to confirm that
distinction rather than refute it.
--
Phil Burkett
> In article <313F4F...@midway.uchicago.edu>,
> > > OK, 150 men climb aboard a sub, go driveabout, and 75 couples emerge
> > > after the voyage. Now, are these couples called SUB-mariners or
> > > submarine-ERS?
> >
> > They're called "sailors".
> the surface.
> How about calling them 'men' like you did originally ? <g>
> --
> "Sometimes a .sig is just a .sig." -- Sigmund Freud.
> My email address will change soon. sla...@somewhere.else may be me.
Peter Moylan
> On Saturday, March 9, 1996 at 2:00:00 AM UTC-6, Simon Slavin wrote:
>> In article <313F4F...@midway.uchicago.edu>, James Eason
>> <jea...@midway.uchicago.edu> wrote:
1991 postings.
--
Peter Moylan Newcastle, NSW http://www.pmoylan.org
J. J. Lodder
The British ones have fins instead of sails.
Most WWII ones had conning towers instead of sails,
some Japanese ones excepted,
Jan
(never sailed on a sub either)
occam
> Phil Burkett <pmbu...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> On Saturday, March 9, 1996 at 2:00:00 AM UTC-6, Simon Slavin wrote:
>>> In article <313F4F...@midway.uchicago.edu>,
>>> James Eason <jea...@midway.uchicago.edu> wrote:
>>>>> OK, 150 men climb aboard a sub, go driveabout, and 75 couples emerge
>>>>> after the voyage. Now, are these couples called SUB-mariners or
>>>>> submarine-ERS?
>>>>
>>>> They're called "sailors".
>>> Which is true, but ironic because
>>> (1) Submarines don't have sails.
>>> (2) Submarines don't 'sail': a sailing submarine would never get below
>>> the surface.
>>> How about calling them 'men' like you did originally ? <g>
>>> Simon.
>>> --
>>> "Sometimes a .sig is just a .sig." -- Sigmund Freud.
>>> My email address will change soon. sla...@somewhere.else may be me.
>>
>>
>> Wrong. Submarines do have sails. You Sir have obviously never sailed on a sub.
>
> Only post-WWII American ones.
he is with the times after all.