Reader unknown
Ana
English is not my mother tongue so I need some help translating an e-mail.
The problem is that the person who is to recieve it, that is, read it, is
unknown so I do not know how to address the e-mail
dear sir? dear... who?
The content of the mail is simple, it's just an application for a job with
my CV attached.
Please help,
Thanks in advance
Ana
CyberCypher
> Hi everyone,
>
> English is not my mother tongue so I need some help translating an
> e-mail. The problem is that the person who is to recieve it, that
> is, read it, is unknown so I do not know how to address the e-mail
>
> dear sir? dear... who?
>
> The content of the mail is simple, it's just an application for a
> job with my CV attached.
If the person has a title, you could say "Dear Personnel Director" (or
whatever the title is).
Charles Riggs
<cybercypher2...@NOSPAM.net> wrote:
Oh my. Miss Manners would shudder if she heard this.
--
Charles Riggs
For email, please remove the two capitalized parts
in the address that appears
Judy
"Ana" <a...@tamanposla.hr> wrote in message
news:bomcrg$23t$1...@sunce.iskon.hr...
To whom it may concern,
Judy
CyberCypher
> On 9 Nov 2003 23:39:13 GMT, CyberCypher
> <cybercypher2...@NOSPAM.net> wrote:
>
>>"Ana" <a...@tamanposla.hr> wrote on 10 Nov 2003:
>>
>>> Hi everyone,
>>>
>>> English is not my mother tongue so I need some help translating
>>> an e-mail. The problem is that the person who is to recieve it,
>>> that is, read it, is unknown so I do not know how to address the
>>> e-mail
>>>
>>> dear sir? dear... who?
>>>
>>> The content of the mail is simple, it's just an application for
>>> a job with my CV attached.
>>
>>If the person has a title, you could say "Dear Personnel Director"
>>(or whatever the title is).
>
> Oh my. Miss Manners would shudder if she heard this.
What would *she* say? Certainly not "To Whom It May Concern".
CyberCypher
Well, it appears that I spoke too soon.
R J Valentine
I'm guessing she'd say to call the office and ask the name of the person
that the letter should be addressed to. It's even possible that personnel
directors have better things to do than to open and screen applications.
--
R. J. Valentine <mailto:bettingjudy...@wicked.smart.net>
CyberCypher
> On 10 Nov 2003 04:24:52 GMT CyberCypher
> <cybercypher2...@nospam.net> wrote:
>
> } Charles Riggs <NOTch...@BADPARTeircom.net> wrote on 10 Nov
> 2003: }
> }> On 9 Nov 2003 23:39:13 GMT, CyberCypher
> }> <cybercypher2...@NOSPAM.net> wrote:
> }>
> }>>"Ana" <a...@tamanposla.hr> wrote on 10 Nov 2003:
> }>>
> }>>> Hi everyone,
> }>>>
> }>>> English is not my mother tongue so I need some help
> translating }>>> an e-mail. The problem is that the person who is
> to recieve it, }>>> that is, read it, is unknown so I do not know
> how to address the }>>> e-mail
> }>>>
> }>>> dear sir? dear... who?
> }>>>
> }>>> The content of the mail is simple, it's just an application
> for }>>> a job with my CV attached.
> }>>
> }>>If the person has a title, you could say "Dear Personnel
> Director" }>>(or whatever the title is).
> }>
> }> Oh my. Miss Manners would shudder if she heard this.
> }
> } What would *she* say? Certainly not "To Whom It May Concern".
>
> I'm guessing she'd say to call the office and ask the name of the
> person that the letter should be addressed to.
Sometimes advertisements here and elsewhere don't give the name of
the company doing the hiring, the name or title of the person to whom
the mail should be addressed, or even the department in need of an
employee. The best thing to do would, of course, to check for names,
but that is not always possible, especially if the job information is
in a deliberately uninformative advert.
> It's even possible that personnel directors have better
> things to do than to open and screen applications.
You might be right about that, but I doubt that personnel directors
who do have better things to do actually open asny of their mail ---
unless it's marked "Personal" and isn't from Reader's Digest --- but
have subordinates (oops, direct reports) do it for them. Delegation
of authority and responsibility, and all that, you know.
Skitt
> Sometimes advertisements here and elsewhere don't give the name of
> the company doing the hiring, the name or title of the person to whom
> the mail should be addressed, or even the department in need of an
> employee.
Are those the kind that are just looking for a warm body they can exploit
for a while?
> The best thing to do would, of course, to check for names,
> but that is not always possible, especially if the job information is
> in a deliberately uninformative advert.
For the deliberately uninformative advertisements, any mode of response will
usually be just fine, not that one should be made by any serious job seeker.
Am I misunderstanding something, or are we into that "inscrutable" area
here.
--
Skitt (in Hayward, California)
www.geocities.com/opus731/
Charles Riggs
<cybercypher2...@NOSPAM.net> wrote:
I doubt it, but I think she'd prefer "Dear Sir", "Dear Madam", or
"Dear Sir or Madam", depending how much or little one knows about the
addressee, assuming the name of the person is unknown of course, over
"Dear [insert a title name]". I may have it wrong for it's been a
while since I read Judith Martin's columns or one of her fine books.
CyberCypher
> CyberCypher wrote:
>
>> Sometimes advertisements here and elsewhere don't give the name
>> of the company doing the hiring, the name or title of the person
>> to whom the mail should be addressed, or even the department in
>> need of an employee.
>
> Are those the kind that are just looking for a warm body they can
> exploit for a while?
In my part of Taiwan, employers are cheap bastards, so they make their
adverts as short as possible to avoid paying too much money for them.
Many of the shops and businesses here aren't even listed in the phone
book because it costs money to do that. People around here will drive
without headlights and tailights in order to avoid paying for new
bulbs.
>> The best thing to do would, of course, to check for names,
>> but that is not always possible, especially if the job
>> information is in a deliberately uninformative advert.
>
> For the deliberately uninformative advertisements, any mode of
> response will usually be just fine, not that one should be made by
> any serious job seeker.
In a bad economy, any lead is a good one for some people.
> Am I misunderstanding something, or are we into that "inscrutable"
> area here.
I have provided the reason above. One more reason for not providing the
company name in a job advert is to prevent job-seekers from inundating
the office in person. Some of them say things like "Large international
corporation looking for ***". Many of those adverts are for MLMs, of
course, especially if the *** includes "self-starting, energetic,
success-oriented", but some are for clerical or low-level
administrative positions.
CyberCypher
> On 10 Nov 2003 04:24:52 GMT, CyberCypher
> <cybercypher2...@NOSPAM.net> wrote:
>
>>Charles Riggs <NOTch...@BADPARTeircom.net> wrote on 10 Nov 2003:
>>
>>> On 9 Nov 2003 23:39:13 GMT, CyberCypher
>>> <cybercypher2...@NOSPAM.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>>"Ana" <a...@tamanposla.hr> wrote on 10 Nov 2003:
>>>>
>>>>> Hi everyone,
>>>>>
>>>>> English is not my mother tongue so I need some help translating
>>>>> an e-mail. The problem is that the person who is to recieve it,
>>>>> that is, read it, is unknown so I do not know how to address the
>>>>> e-mail
>>>>>
>>>>> dear sir? dear... who?
>>>>>
>>>>> The content of the mail is simple, it's just an application for
>>>>> a job with my CV attached.
>>>>
>>>>If the person has a title, you could say "Dear Personnel Director"
>>>>(or whatever the title is).
>>>
>>> Oh my. Miss Manners would shudder if she heard this.
>>
>>What would *she* say? Certainly not "To Whom It May Concern".
>
> I doubt it, but I think she'd prefer "Dear Sir", "Dear Madam", or
> "Dear Sir or Madam", depending how much or little one knows about the
> addressee, assuming the name of the person is unknown of course, over
> "Dear [insert a title name]". I may have it wrong for it's been a
> while since I read Judith Martin's columns or one of her fine books.
I usually take her very good advice about most things, but not about
business letters. I've written my own book (unpublished and unsubmitted
for publication) about that.
Jouni Filip Maho
>
> Certainly not "To Whom It May Concern".
Why not?
---
jouni maho
CyberCypher
> CyberCypher wrote:
>>
>> Certainly not "To Whom It May Concern".
>
> Why not?
When one writes to a company for a job, the first thing one should do
is find out as much as possible about that company, including the names
and duties of all the executives. If you want to work for a particular
department, then you should probably write directly to the department
head, who, if interested in your application, will route it to the
proper person.
If it's a small company without a lot of suits at the top, then you
write to the owner or the president.
Before writing, though, it is best to go there if that is at all
possible. If that is impossible, then sending a letter addressed to
someone is much, much better than sending a letter "To Whom It May
Concern", which makes your application look like one of a thousand
copies of this letter that you've sent out to a thousand companies in
hopes of getting a nibble at one.
For the best advice on how to apply for a job, see _What Color Is Your
Parachute?_ by Richard Bolles.
See also this Website:
Tony Cooper
wrote:
Is your direction here that a blind help wanted advertisement is an
indication of some sort of shady company or shady hiring practice?
If so, I would disagree. The usual reason for placing a blind ad is
that the company does not want applicants phoning or showing up at the
door. The employer wants to see some sort of resume and select the
people that will be interviewed.
Not all companies are the size of Lockheed and have personnel
departments. Small to mid-sized companies often have the supervisor
that the employee will report to be the person interviewing. That
person will have other responsibilities and may not have the time to
field phone calls and drop-in applicants.
One of the major reasons to discourage phone applicants and drop-in
applicants is that 99% (only slight hyperbole) of job applicants can't
read and comprehend a help wanted advertisement. If there are
requirements (experience, prior training, prior work-in-field, etc) in
the ad, applicants just don't seem to believe that the employer really
considers the requirements to be necessary.
Tony Cooper
<jouni...@africanRE.guMO.seVE> wrote:
>CyberCypher wrote:
>>
>> Certainly not "To Whom It May Concern".
>
>Why not?
If I've read the thread correctly, the question is about replying by
e-mail. I don't consider an e-mail to be a letter or a formal
correspondence. Consequently, I don't think *any* form of salutation
is needed or appropriate. I'd just go directly to the body of the
message:
---
This is in reply to your November 10, advertisement in "Car Washing
News" regarding an opening as a interior cleaning specialist.
I have been employed in the car wash industry for 11 years. I am
currently an interior cleaning specialist at Raindance Car Wash in
Orlando, and have been with Raindance for six years. I am familiar
with all types of vacuums, carpet brushes, and upholstery steam
cleaners. I completed Stainmasters's training program and am a
certified Spot Removal specialist.
I would appreciate the opportunity to submit a complete resume by mail
or to schedule a personal interview. Thank you for your interest.
John Jones
123 Main Street
Orlando FL 32700
407 555 1212
-----------------------
That's all you need. Tell 'em where you saw the ad and what position
you are looking for in case they are running more than one ad, the
short form of what you have to offer, and how to contact you. They
should be able to read it without scrolling.
You should not expect the e-mail to get you the job. All you want is
to get an interview or the opportunity to submit additional
information.
Jouni Filip Maho
>
> Jouni Filip Maho <jouni...@africanRE.guMO.seVE> wrote on 10 Nov 2003:
>
> > CyberCypher wrote:
> >>
> >> Certainly not "To Whom It May Concern".
> >
> > Why not?
>
> When one writes to a company for a job, the first thing one should do
>
Aha. I understood your reply so that the phrase should be avoided as
such, period, irrespective of context. My mistake.
---
jouni maho
Jerry Friedman
I use "Dear Madam or Sir:". I agree with the advice that if you can
find out the name of the recipient, you should use it.
--
Jerry Friedman
CyberCypher
Sometimes job ads have almost no information, as I said in one of the
earlier posts. That is true here in Taiwan, but the job ads are in
English. All they give you is a post office box number or an e-mail
address to write to. In that case, it is impossible to find out whom
you're writing to or what company is doing the advertising or even,
sometimes, the department that is doing the hiring. In that case, "To
Whom It May Concern" is just fine. There's almost always a scenario
in which what in other circumstances would be the best choice is
impossible. Then one has to make do with lesser but appropriate
alternatives. "Dear Sir or Madam" is still acceptable.
When I was hiring people to teach English and had my name in the
advert, I did not give any consideration to people who sent me "To
Whom It May Concern" type letters. The salutation was anonymous and
the letter was too general to be of any value in assessing the
person's suitability for the job. Another thing that bugs me is the
"I'll do any kind of job" letter. Most companies don't hire Jacks-
and-Jills-of-all-trades. This sort of impersonal approach gets
impersonal rejections almost every time. Maybe other employers or
managers don't care, but I did.
Skitt
> "Skitt" wrote:
>> CyberCypher wrote:
>>> Sometimes advertisements here and elsewhere don't give the name of
>>> the company doing the hiring, the name or title of the person to
>>> whom the mail should be addressed, or even the department in need
>>> of an employee.
>>
>> Are those the kind that are just looking for a warm body they can
>> exploit for a while?
>>
>>> The best thing to do would, of course, to check for names,
>>> but that is not always possible, especially if the job information
>>> is in a deliberately uninformative advert.
>>
>> For the deliberately uninformative advertisements, any mode of
>> response will usually be just fine, not that one should be made by
>> any serious job seeker.
>>
>> Am I misunderstanding something, or are we into that "inscrutable"
>> area here.
>
> Is your direction here that a blind help wanted advertisement is an
> indication of some sort of shady company or shady hiring practice?
That was it. Ads like:
Make up to $5000 a day. No experience necessary. Respond to Box 57A at
this paper.
> If so, I would disagree. The usual reason for placing a blind ad is
> that the company does not want applicants phoning or showing up at the
> door. The employer wants to see some sort of resume and select the
> people that will be interviewed.
>
> Not all companies are the size of Lockheed and have personnel
> departments. Small to mid-sized companies often have the supervisor
> that the employee will report to be the person interviewing. That
> person will have other responsibilities and may not have the time to
> field phone calls and drop-in applicants.
>
> One of the major reasons to discourage phone applicants and drop-in
> applicants is that 99% (only slight hyperbole) of job applicants can't
> read and comprehend a help wanted advertisement. If there are
> requirements (experience, prior training, prior work-in-field, etc) in
> the ad, applicants just don't seem to believe that the employer really
> considers the requirements to be necessary.
Well, there is that, of course.
Tony Cooper
wrote:
>Tony Cooper wrote:
>> "Skitt" wrote:
>>> CyberCypher wrote:
>
>>>> Sometimes advertisements here and elsewhere don't give the name of
>>>> the company doing the hiring, the name or title of the person to
>>>> whom the mail should be addressed, or even the department in need
>>>> of an employee.
>>>
>>> Are those the kind that are just looking for a warm body they can
>>> exploit for a while?
>>>
>>>> The best thing to do would, of course, to check for names,
>>>> but that is not always possible, especially if the job information
>>>> is in a deliberately uninformative advert.
>>>
>>> For the deliberately uninformative advertisements, any mode of
>>> response will usually be just fine, not that one should be made by
>>> any serious job seeker.
>>>
>>> Am I misunderstanding something, or are we into that "inscrutable"
>>> area here.
>>
>> Is your direction here that a blind help wanted advertisement is an
>> indication of some sort of shady company or shady hiring practice?
>
>That was it. Ads like:
>
>Make up to $5000 a day. No experience necessary. Respond to Box 57A at
>this paper.
Those kind of ads usually have phone numbers and not box numbers. The
hard-sell guy is at the other end.
Jonathan Miller
>
> English is not my mother tongue so I need some help translating an e-mail.
> The problem is that the person who is to recieve it, that is, read it, is
> unknown so I do not know how to address the e-mail
>
> dear sir? dear... who?
Dear Sir or Madam will you read my book
It took me years to write, will you take a look
Based on a novel by a man named Lear
And I need a job
So I want to be a paperback writer
Paperback writer
Jon "Dirty Story" Miller