Re: "Monk" and San Francisco English

[Lewis]

In message <monk-2016...@ram.dialup.fu-berlin.de>
Stefan Ram <r...@zedat.fu-berlin.de> wrote:
> The series »Monk« takes place in San Francisco. Can someone
> still remember whether he perceived the English used in the
> series as being »typical for San Francisco« (or »California«)?

Other than American South and the strong North East accents, most
Americans don't perceive much of accents. Word choice might tell you if
someone is from Ohio, Nebraska, Arizona, or Washington, but the accent
probably won't.

--
99 percent of lawyers give the rest a bad name.

[Tony Cooper]

Add Wisconsin and Minnesota to the areas where accents identify.

--
Tony Cooper - Orlando, Florida

[Horace LaBadie]

In article <monk-2016...@ram.dialup.fu-berlin.de>,

r...@zedat.fu-berlin.de (Stefan Ram) wrote:

> The series »Monk« takes place in San Francisco. Can someone
> still remember whether he perceived the English used in the
> series as being »typical for San Francisco« (or »California«)?
>

> Or were these actors that were collected from all over the U.S.,
> and every actor uses his »home pronunciation«?

Bitty Schram (Sharona) affected a New Jersey dialect for her character,
but she's from New York City, so she would be familiar with the speech
of the Garden State.

Natalie Teeger (Traylor Howard) was upper class, but had no trace of any
accent. Howard is a Floridian.

Monk (Tony Shaloub) sounded like the actor always sounds on TV. He's an
upper midwesterner (Wisconsin.)

[Peter T. Daniels]

On Tuesday, June 14, 2016 at 9:51:34 PM UTC-4, Horace LaBadie wrote:
> In article <monk-2016...@ram.dialup.fu-berlin.de>,
> r...@zedat.fu-berlin.de (Stefan Ram) wrote:

> > The series »Monk« takes place in San Francisco. Can someone
> > still remember whether he perceived the English used in the
> > series as being »typical for San Francisco« (or »California«)?
> >
> > Or were these actors that were collected from all over the U.S.,
> > and every actor uses his »home pronunciation«?
>
> Bitty Schram (Sharona) affected a New Jersey dialect for her character,
> but she's from New York City, so she would be familiar with the speech
> of the Garden State.

The Garden State doesn't have an identifiable dialect of its own. The northern
half of the state is in the NYC dialect area, the southern half in the
Philadelphia dialect area.

> Natalie Teeger (Traylor Howard) was upper class, but had no trace of any
> accent. Howard is a Floridian.
>
> Monk (Tony Shaloub) sounded like the actor always sounds on TV. He's an
> upper midwesterner (Wisconsin.)

He's _wonderful_ in the new series *Brain Dead*.

[RH Draney]

The Andy Griffith Show, set in a fictitious town in North Carolina but
one where most people could be expected to live almost their entire
lives without venturing more than a hundred miles from home, had only
four of its principal actors with legitimate southern accents: Andy,
Barney, and the two Pyle cousins Goomer and Gober....

Such stalwarts as Ernest T Bass (played by Bronx native Howard Morris),
Opie Taylor (Hollywood local Ronnie Howard), Briscoe Darling (Coloradoan
Denver Pyle), Floyd the barber (Californian Howard McNear), Otis the
drunk (Michigander Hal Smith) and Aunt Bee (New Yorker Frances Bavier)
were all faking it (Helen Crump and Howard Sprague were said to have
moved to Mayberry from elsewhere)....r

[Adam Funk]

He's pretty good in the _Men in Black_ films too (if you like that
sort of thing).


--
$2.95!
PLATE O' SHRIMP
Luncheon Special

[RH Draney]

On 6/15/2016 3:45 AM, Stefan Ram wrote:

> r...@zedat.fu-berlin.de (Stefan Ram) writes:
>> series as being »typical for San Francisco« (or »California«)?
>

> From the World-Wide Web:
>
> The accents in series are often mixed, but some exceptions are:
>
> The Sopranos - where most actors really are from NY and
> speak this way and
>
> Roseanne - where most actors really are from Illinois
> or near there (except Roseanne who is from Salt Lake City).
>
> A neutral Californian accent seems to be used by many
> characters on TV anyways and therefore often is not
> recognized as an »accent« at all. A page in the Word-Wide
> Web says: »The neutral Californian accent spoken by most
> characters on TV is referred to as a "standard American"
> accent.« (However, other sources deem an accent as from
> Seattle to be »neutral« or »Broadcaster English«.)

Most of the actors on shows airing on the CW network are Canadian and
don't take a great deal of care to hide their accents...I first noticed
it watching "Smallville" myself....r

[GordonD]

On 15/06/2016 09:03, Adam Funk wrote:
> On 2016-06-15, Peter T. Daniels wrote:
>
>> On Tuesday, June 14, 2016 at 9:51:34 PM UTC-4, Horace LaBadie wrote:
>
>>> Monk (Tony Shaloub) sounded like the actor always sounds on TV. He's an
>>> upper midwesterner (Wisconsin.)
>>
>> He's _wonderful_ in the new series *Brain Dead*.
>
> He's pretty good in the _Men in Black_ films too (if you like that
> sort of thing).
>
>

And 'Galaxy Quest'...
--
Gordon Davie
Edinburgh, Scotland

[Peter T. Daniels]

On Wednesday, June 15, 2016 at 4:15:04 AM UTC-4, Adam Funk wrote:
> On 2016-06-15, Peter T. Daniels wrote:
> > On Tuesday, June 14, 2016 at 9:51:34 PM UTC-4, Horace LaBadie wrote:

> >> Monk (Tony Shaloub) sounded like the actor always sounds on TV. He's an
> >> upper midwesterner (Wisconsin.)
> > He's _wonderful_ in the new series *Brain Dead*.
>
> He's pretty good in the _Men in Black_ films too (if you like that
> sort of thing).

When I learned that they used the New York State Pavilion from the 1964-65
World's Fair as the aliens' headquarters I bought the I-II DVD pack ($5 I
think it was), but I haven't watched it yet. It's one of only four structures
that were retained at the end, but it's in terrible disrepair and just
recently I heard of fund-raising attempts for restoration.

Andy Warhol was commissioned to do art for the walls but (like the Diego
Rivera murals at Rockefeller Center) they lasted one day -- they were exhibited
at the Queens Museum not long ago (another survivor), but I didn't make it all
the way out there.

[Wayne Brown]

And "Wings" as Antonio, the perpetually depressed cab driver...

--
F. Wayne Brown <fwb...@bellsouth.net>

ur sag9-ga ur-tur-še3 ba-an-kur9
"A dog that is played with turns into a puppy." (Sumerian proverb)

[Lewis]

In message <i891mbhr2muv77t5b...@4ax.com>

Depends. I know a couple of people from St Paul and would never know
they were from Minnesota from their accents. The only person I know from
Wisconsin off the top of my head is from Milwaukee and also has no
noticeable accent.

But in high school I knew someone from some small city/town in
Minnesota, and they did have what I have come to think of as the "Fargo"
accent.

I can't remember the name of the town. It wasn't Winnebago, but something
that sounded like it might be the name of an 80s movie's summer camp
with some w's I think.

--
All Hell hadn't been let loose. It was merely Detritus. But from a few
feet away you couldn't tell the difference.

[GordonD]

On 15/06/2016 16:55, Wayne Brown wrote:
> On Wed, 15 Jun 2016 07:19:01 in article <dscvdp...@mid.individual.net> GordonD <g.d...@btinternet.com> wrote:
>> On 15/06/2016 09:03, Adam Funk wrote:
>>> On 2016-06-15, Peter T. Daniels wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Tuesday, June 14, 2016 at 9:51:34 PM UTC-4, Horace LaBadie wrote:
>>>
>>>>> Monk (Tony Shaloub) sounded like the actor always sounds on TV. He's an
>>>>> upper midwesterner (Wisconsin.)
>>>>
>>>> He's _wonderful_ in the new series *Brain Dead*.
>>>
>>> He's pretty good in the _Men in Black_ films too (if you like that
>>> sort of thing).
>>>
>>>
>>
>> And 'Galaxy Quest'...
>
> And "Wings" as Antonio, the perpetually depressed cab driver...

Which led to a great in-joke when Mr. Monk and Sharona see Tim Daly
aboard an airplane. Sharona explains that he was the star of 'Wings'
but Monk has never heard of the show. He asks if it was any good, to
which Sharona replies, "Well, *he* was..."

The flight attendant who is driven to despair by Monk's actions was
played by Brooke Adams, who is married to Tony Shalhoub.

[Yusuf B Gursey]

Tony Shalhoub. Of Christian Lebanese-American parents.

BTW Omar Sharif's original name was Michael Shalhoub (unrelated).

*sh*alhu:b in Lebanese Arabic is the name of a hot wind, from
Aramaic. cf. Arabic lahab "flame" *sh*a- preformative (this
gives it away as Aramaic and a late loanword, otherwise sa-
would be expected in Arabic.

[Peter T. Daniels]

There was a *Single White Female* meta-joke toward the end of this season of
*Madam Secretary* -- which featured Tim Daly's *Wings* buddy Steven Weber.

Yes, my meta-joke: "Buddy" Rogers starred in *Wings*, the first Best Picture (1927).

[Athel Cornish-Bowden]

On seeing your post I wondered if "sirocco" might be derived from that
(though the similarity of sound is tenuous). However,
http://www.etymonline.com says

sirocco (n.)
"hot wind blowing from the Libyan deserts," 1610s, from Italian
sirocco, from vulgar Arabic shoruq "the east wind," from Arabic sharqi
"eastern, east wind," from sharq "east," from sharaqa "to rise" (in
reference to the sun).

Is that related to your *sh*alhu:b?

Our siroccos don't come from Libya, however; they come from Algeria.
The French word begins with [s], but I have an idea that in Italian it
has [ʃ].



--
athel

[GordonD]

By a spooky coincidence, only a couple of hours ago I was reading a
'Jeeves' story in which Bertie Wooster describes a friend's housemaid
as "like a typhoon, simoon, or sirocco." I'd never heard the middle
word but one tap of the Kindle screen defined it as "a hot, dry,
dust-laden wind blowing in the desert, especially in Arabia" - though
it's usually spelt "simoom".

[Peter Moylan]

The even dustier ones are called haboobs. Not to be confused with
hadoop, which means spam.

I've only experienced such a thing once. Freakish weather picked up dust
from western NSW, carried it quite a long distance, and then dumped it
on Newcastle. When I looked out the window in the morning I thought we
were experiencing a particularly thick fog -- visibility was down to
almost nothing -- but after I stepped outside and got the dust up my
nose I rapidly retreated. The radio advised us to stay indoors all day
and keep all doors and windows closed. Even so, it took months to clean
the dust out of the house.

--
Peter Moylan http://www.pmoylan.org
Newcastle, NSW, Australia

[Adam Funk]

Yes, I'd forgotten.


--
I don't quite understand this worship of objectivity in
journalism. Now, just flat-out lying is different from being
subjective. --- Hunter S Thompson

[Adam Funk]

On 2016-06-15, Peter T. Daniels wrote:

> On Wednesday, June 15, 2016 at 4:15:04 AM UTC-4, Adam Funk wrote:
>> On 2016-06-15, Peter T. Daniels wrote:
>> > On Tuesday, June 14, 2016 at 9:51:34 PM UTC-4, Horace LaBadie wrote:
>
>> >> Monk (Tony Shaloub) sounded like the actor always sounds on TV. He's an
>> >> upper midwesterner (Wisconsin.)
>> > He's _wonderful_ in the new series *Brain Dead*.
>>
>> He's pretty good in the _Men in Black_ films too (if you like that
>> sort of thing).
>
> When I learned that they used the New York State Pavilion from the 1964-65
> World's Fair as the aliens' headquarters I bought the I-II DVD pack ($5 I
> think it was), but I haven't watched it yet. It's one of only four structures
> that were retained at the end, but it's in terrible disrepair and just
> recently I heard of fund-raising attempts for restoration.

I think the MIB films are funny, but YMMV.

> Andy Warhol was commissioned to do art for the walls but (like the Diego
> Rivera murals at Rockefeller Center) they lasted one day -- they were exhibited
> at the Queens Museum not long ago (another survivor), but I didn't make it all
> the way out there.

Warhol is a character in MIB3 (Agent J travels back in time to 1969).


--
The generation of random numbers is too important to be left to
chance. --- Robert R. Coveyou

[Adam Funk]

On 2016-06-16, Peter Moylan wrote:

> On 2016-Jun-16 19:37, GordonD wrote:

>> By a spooky coincidence, only a couple of hours ago I was reading a
>> 'Jeeves' story in which Bertie Wooster describes a friend's housemaid
>> as "like a typhoon, simoon, or sirocco." I'd never heard the middle
>> word but one tap of the Kindle screen defined it as "a hot, dry,
>> dust-laden wind blowing in the desert, especially in Arabia" - though
>> it's usually spelt "simoom".
>
> The even dustier ones are called haboobs. Not to be confused with
> hadoop, which means spam.

"Spam filtering techniques and MapReduce with SVM: A study"

<http://hadoopproject.com/spam-filtering-techniques-mapreduce-svm-study/>



--
The kid's a hot prospect. He's got a good head for merchandising, an
agent who can take you downtown and one of the best urine samples I've
seen in a long time. (Dead Kennedys t-shirt)

[Athel Cornish-Bowden]

On the whole our siroccos aren't as bad as that, which is just as well,
as we have several a year. One time it rained for just a minute -- long
enough to bring down great globs of mud, not long enough to rinse them
away. The car-wash places were packed out for days afterwards.


--
athel

[Janet]

In article <dsfabb...@mid.individual.net>, g.d...@btinternet.com
says...

> > French word begins with [s], but I have an idea that in Italian it has [?].

> >
> >
> >
>
> By a spooky coincidence, only a couple of hours ago I was reading a
> 'Jeeves' story in which Bertie Wooster describes a friend's housemaid
> as "like a typhoon, simoon, or sirocco." I'd never heard the middle
> word but one tap of the Kindle screen defined it as "a hot, dry,
> dust-laden wind blowing in the desert, especially in Arabia" - though
> it's usually spelt "simoom".

Lovely word.

Years ago I met a fisherman in Turkey who had named each of his
children after a wind, I hope Simoom was one of them.

Janet

[Yusuf B Gursey]

> Is that related to your *sh*alhu:b?*
>

No. *sh*arq "East" is native Arabic.

Arabic /*sh*/ corresponds to Hebrew & Old Aramaic sin
Arabic /s/ corresponds to Hebrew and Aramaic shin and samekh.

When you find Arabic shin corresponding to Hebrew and Aramaic
shin, one is dealing with a recent loanword.

[Peter T. Daniels]

On Thursday, June 16, 2016 at 11:57:07 AM UTC-4, Yusuf B Gursey wrote:

> When you find Arabic shin corresponding to Hebrew and Aramaic
> shin, one is dealing with a recent loanword.

ObAUE: "one" resuming "you"

[David Kleinecke]

Like I got to thinking. I hardly ever go looking for Arabic shins.
An abstract one might (especially if the one were Yusuf). So better
flush out the abstract "you" and go with "one".

[Yusuf B Gursey]

"Simoom" is Standard Arabic samu:m from samm "poison"
In Turkish it is sam yeli . It is not regarded as
a desirable wind.

Turkish has names for the winds in 8 directions,
the cardinal points and those in between.

N yıldız NE poyraz E gündoğusu SE keşişleme
S kıble SW lodos W günbatısı NW karayel

poyraz comes from Greek boreas, lodos from Greek notos.

yıldız = star gündoğusu = sunrise keşişleme from Mt. Keşiş
(Monk's mountain, Mt. Olympus on Bithynia, SE of Istanbul)
kıble = Arabic Qiblah (direction of Mecca) gunbatısı - sunset
karayel = black (strong) wind

These are used in weather reports and by sailors and fishermen.

Also used as a name is meltem for any local convection wind,
perhaps Italian mal tempo.

imbat (Italian imbatto), a convection wind from sea to
shore, esp. the Aegean convection wind from the East.

[Snidely]

On Thursday or thereabouts, Peter Moylan asked ...

That's a SAPy thing to say.

> I've only experienced such a thing once. Freakish weather picked up dust
> from western NSW, carried it quite a long distance, and then dumped it
> on Newcastle. When I looked out the window in the morning I thought we
> were experiencing a particularly thick fog -- visibility was down to
> almost nothing -- but after I stepped outside and got the dust up my
> nose I rapidly retreated. The radio advised us to stay indoors all day
> and keep all doors and windows closed. Even so, it took months to clean
> the dust out of the house.

Jerry and RH have, IIRC, described how haboobs have invaded their
territory. A little closer to the Gulf, but not where things are wet,
there was this description of a little dust-up:

<quote>
Authorities said one traveler was killed and several were hurt in a
13-vehicle pileup during a dust storm in the Texas Panhandle.

The Texas Department of Public Safety said the accident Wednesday night
closed Interstate 40 near Conway, 30 miles east of Amarillo. Trooper
Cindy Barkley said all lanes of I-40 reopened Thursday.

Barkley said six cars, one motorcycle and six tractor-trailer rigs
crashed when the dust storm caused zero visibility.
</quote>
<URL:http://lubbockonline.com/texas/2016-06-17/texas-and-region#.V2ObJfkrLIU>

/dps

--
The presence of this syntax results from the fact that SQLite is really
a Tcl extension that has escaped into the wild.
<http://www.sqlite.org/lang_expr.html>

[Wayne Brown]

I thought it was rather SASsy.

[Snidely]

on 6/17/2016, Wayne Brown supposed :

I was going by the next spam after Peter's Post.

/dps

--
Killing a mouse was hardly a Nobel Prize-worthy exercise, and Lawrence
went apopleptic when he learned a lousy rodent had peed away all his
precious heavy water.
_The Disappearing Spoon_, Sam Kean

[Wayne Brown]

I see spam for SAP, SAS or Oracle training almost every time I come
here so I thought SAS would be a good follow-up choice. (It's been
a while since I saw any Hadoop spam.) Now it's someone else's turn
to follow up with some sort of Oracle joke or pun.

[Horace LaBadie]

In article <nk3lek$22m$1...@dont-email.me>,

Wayne Brown <fwb...@bellsouth.net> wrote:

> On Sat, 18 Jun 2016 01:10:02 in article <mn.8d6e7e0662c30837.127094@snitoo>
> Snidely <snide...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > on 6/17/2016, Wayne Brown supposed :
> >> On Fri, 17 Jun 2016 01:44:11 in article
> >> <mn.85907e06cca82d28.127094@snitoo>
> >> Snidely <snide...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>> On Thursday or thereabouts, Peter Moylan asked ...
> >>>> On 2016-Jun-16 19:37, GordonD wrote:
> >>>>> On 16/06/2016 09:50, Athel Cornish-Bowden wrote:
> >>>>>> On 2016-06-15 23:51:27 +0000, Yusuf B Gursey said:

SNIP

> >>>>>> Is that related to your *sh*alhu:b?
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Our siroccos don't come from Libya, however; they come from Algeria.
> >>>>>> The
> >>>>>> French word begins with [s], but I have an idea that in Italian it has

> >>>>>> [?].

> >>>>>
> >>>>> By a spooky coincidence, only a couple of hours ago I was reading a
> >>>>> 'Jeeves' story in which Bertie Wooster describes a friend's housemaid
> >>>>> as "like a typhoon, simoon, or sirocco." I'd never heard the middle
> >>>>> word but one tap of the Kindle screen defined it as "a hot, dry,
> >>>>> dust-laden wind blowing in the desert, especially in Arabia" - though
> >>>>> it's usually spelt "simoom".
> >>>>
> >>>> The even dustier ones are called haboobs. Not to be confused with
> >>>> hadoop, which means spam.
> >>>
> >>> That's a SAPy thing to say.
> >>
> >> I thought it was rather SASsy.
> >
> > I was going by the next spam after Peter's Post.
>
> I see spam for SAP, SAS or Oracle training almost every time I come
> here so I thought SAS would be a good follow-up choice. (It's been
> a while since I saw any Hadoop spam.) Now it's someone else's turn
> to follow up with some sort of Oracle joke or pun.

That's a rather Delphic prediction. Like a self-fulfilling prophecy.

[Wayne Brown]

I knew this group wouldn't let me down. :-)

[Charles Bishop]

In article <dsffai...@mid.individual.net>,
Athel Cornish-Bowden <acor...@imm.cnrs.fr> wrote:

[snip-winds by any other name]

>
> On the whole our siroccos aren't as bad as that, which is just as well,
> as we have several a year. One time it rained for just a minute -- long
> enough to bring down great globs of mud, not long enough to rinse them
> away. The car-wash places were packed out for days afterwards.

Did it happen that it rained while there was a sirocco (dust laden?) and
that's what made the mud?

--
charles

[snide...@gmail.com]

You're not incensed about all the smoke and mirrors?

/dps

[Yusuf B Gursey]

On Thursday, June 16, 2016 at 2:51:29 AM UTC+3, Yusuf B Gursey wrote:

Incidentally, Tony Shalhoub currently plays a Republican
Senator on the summer TV series "Brain Dead" - the character
is infected in his brain by alien space bugs.

[Athel Cornish-Bowden]

Yes, more or less. The sirocco often brings warm rain with it, but
usually it lasts long enough to undo some of the damage done by the
first drops.

--
athel

[Yusuf B Gursey]

Arabic habūb "blasting/drafting"

[Yusuf B Gursey]

On Thursday, June 16, 2016 at 11:50:20 AM UTC+3, Athel Cornish-Bowden wrote:

Kahane and Tietze "The Lingua Franca in the Levant ..."
reject this etymology (Arabic *sh*uru:q "sunrise")
"for phonetic, geographic, and semantic reasons."

Arabic has *sh*alu:q, *sh*ulu:q appearing first as *sh*alawq
(for *sh*alo:q) in the 13th cent. *sh*ru:q is given for
N African colloquials.

They call it a "pan-Mediterranean" word.
In their opinion it comes from Provençal
13th cent. eissalot . Later the suffix
changes to -oc [-ok]. The sibilant *sh*
develops in Catalan and Spanish, and the -r-
variant they attribute to Genoa.

Etymologically they conclude it is corresponds
to Ancient Greek ἔξαλώτης 'out of the sea'

Turkish used both şuluk and şuruk until during the 16th cent.
for SE wind when it began to be replaced by keşişleme