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Michael Uplawski
Mar 13, 2023, 4:56:10 AM3/13/23
to
Good morning.
I cannot contribute much to any discussion at this moment, but reading
alt.usage.english has become just as difficult:
My newsreader marks filtered postings but does not remove them from the
threads. With about 90% of the content being reduced to mere clutter,
this newsgroup has beaten all recoeds in a short time. This can be a
problem of my program, but I will stick to it for other reasons.
Can you recommed a different group, possibly outside the alt-hierachy
for English languge topics?
TIA.
Cheerio
--
Native German / Colloquial French
I cannot contribute much to any discussion at this moment, but reading
alt.usage.english has become just as difficult:
My newsreader marks filtered postings but does not remove them from the
threads. With about 90% of the content being reduced to mere clutter,
this newsgroup has beaten all recoeds in a short time. This can be a
problem of my program, but I will stick to it for other reasons.
Can you recommed a different group, possibly outside the alt-hierachy
for English languge topics?
TIA.
Cheerio
--
Native German / Colloquial French
Michael Uplawski
Mar 13, 2023, 5:02:11 AM3/13/23
to
Good morning.
I cannot contribute much to any discussion at this moment, but reading
alt.usage.english has become just as difficult:
My newsreader marks filtered postings but does not remove them from the
threads. With about 90% of the content being reduced to mere clutter,
this newsgroup has beaten all records in a short time. This can be a
I cannot contribute much to any discussion at this moment, but reading
alt.usage.english has become just as difficult:
My newsreader marks filtered postings but does not remove them from the
threads. With about 90% of the content being reduced to mere clutter,
Michael Uplawski
Mar 13, 2023, 5:02:57 AM3/13/23
to
Good morning.
I cannot contribute much to any discussion at this moment, but reading
alt.usage.english has become just as difficult:
My newsreader marks filtered postings but does not remove them from the
threads. With about 90% of the content being reduced to mere clutter,
this newsgroup has beaten all records in a short time. This can be a
problem of my program, but I will stick to it for other reasons.
Can you recommed a different group, possibly outside the alt-hierachy
for English language topics?
I cannot contribute much to any discussion at this moment, but reading
alt.usage.english has become just as difficult:
My newsreader marks filtered postings but does not remove them from the
threads. With about 90% of the content being reduced to mere clutter,
this newsgroup has beaten all records in a short time. This can be a
problem of my program, but I will stick to it for other reasons.
Can you recommed a different group, possibly outside the alt-hierachy
John Dunlop
Mar 13, 2023, 5:50:27 AM3/13/23
to
Michael Uplawski:
think either is very active, certainly a lot less than AUE.
English-language discussion would also be on-topic in sci.lang, but I
don't know how how active it is nowadays, either. If I were you, I'd try
to make reading AUE easier.
Some people use Google Groups, which might be an option for you while
you work out what's wrong with your newsreader. It seems unlikely that a
newsreader can mark filtered posts but not remove them. If you can't
figure it out, would it be an option to install another newsreader (in
addition to your current one)?
Even something as unsophisticated as Thunderbird could give you a more
pleasant reading experience. Its biggest downside, though, is that you
can't hide follow-ups to killfiled posts (AFAIK), and so you're still
left having to skip over RRs who insist on responding to trolls.
--
John
> I cannot contribute much to any discussion at this moment, but reading
> alt.usage.english has become just as difficult:
> My newsreader marks filtered postings but does not remove them from the
> threads. With about 90% of the content being reduced to mere clutter,
> this newsgroup has beaten all records in a short time. This can be a
> problem of my program, but I will stick to it for other reasons.
>
> Can you recommed a different group, possibly outside the alt-hierachy
> for English language topics?
There's alt.english.usage and uk.culture.language.english, but I don't
> alt.usage.english has become just as difficult:
> My newsreader marks filtered postings but does not remove them from the
> threads. With about 90% of the content being reduced to mere clutter,
> this newsgroup has beaten all records in a short time. This can be a
> problem of my program, but I will stick to it for other reasons.
>
> Can you recommed a different group, possibly outside the alt-hierachy
> for English language topics?
think either is very active, certainly a lot less than AUE.
English-language discussion would also be on-topic in sci.lang, but I
don't know how how active it is nowadays, either. If I were you, I'd try
to make reading AUE easier.
Some people use Google Groups, which might be an option for you while
you work out what's wrong with your newsreader. It seems unlikely that a
newsreader can mark filtered posts but not remove them. If you can't
figure it out, would it be an option to install another newsreader (in
addition to your current one)?
Even something as unsophisticated as Thunderbird could give you a more
pleasant reading experience. Its biggest downside, though, is that you
can't hide follow-ups to killfiled posts (AFAIK), and so you're still
left having to skip over RRs who insist on responding to trolls.
--
John
Bertel Lund Hansen
Mar 13, 2023, 7:34:34 AM3/13/23
to
Den 13.03.2023 kl. 10.50 skrev John Dunlop:
> Even something as unsophisticated as Thunderbird could give you a more
> pleasant reading experience. Its biggest downside, though, is that you
> can't hide follow-ups to killfiled posts (AFAIK),
Correct, but instead of removing the post you can choose to ignore
> Even something as unsophisticated as Thunderbird could give you a more
> pleasant reading experience. Its biggest downside, though, is that you
> can't hide follow-ups to killfiled posts (AFAIK),
subthreads starting with the post, and that kills it and every follow-up
but leaves the main thread undisturbed.
It works well.
--
Bertel, Denmark
John Dunlop
Mar 13, 2023, 8:02:17 AM3/13/23
to
Bertel Lund Hansen:
Thanks for confirming.
I'd be reluctant to ignore subthreads in their entirety, though, because
thread drift can lead to interesting discussions.
Changing the subject line to reflect the content of the subthread would
be helpful, but not many people do that.
--
John
I'd be reluctant to ignore subthreads in their entirety, though, because
thread drift can lead to interesting discussions.
Changing the subject line to reflect the content of the subthread would
be helpful, but not many people do that.
--
John
occam
Mar 13, 2023, 8:57:56 AM3/13/23
to
On 13/03/2023 13:02, John Dunlop wrote:
> Bertel Lund Hansen:
>> Den 13.03.2023 kl. 10.50 skrev John Dunlop:
>>
>>> Even something as unsophisticated as Thunderbird
<ahem> Why do you think of TB as 'unsophisticated'?
> Bertel Lund Hansen:
>> Den 13.03.2023 kl. 10.50 skrev John Dunlop:
>>
>>> Even something as unsophisticated as Thunderbird
could give you a more
>>> pleasant reading experience. Its biggest downside, though, is that you
>>> can't hide follow-ups to killfiled posts (AFAIK),
>>
>> Correct, but instead of removing the post you can choose to ignore
>> subthreads starting with the post, and that kills it and every follow-up
>> but leaves the main thread undisturbed.
>>
>> It works well.
>
> Thanks for confirming.
>
> I'd be reluctant to ignore subthreads in their entirety, though, because
> thread drift can lead to interesting discussions.
paint mine with a very faint shade of grey by 'tag'-ing the message with
'ignore'. (You can choose the colour of 'ignore' to be any shade of
grey.) All this is achieved by using my 'unsophisticated' Thunderbird.
John Dunlop
Mar 13, 2023, 9:42:40 AM3/13/23
to
occam:
example, in this group, muting quoted text prevents your space bar from
wearing out (and preserves your sanity). But you need an add-on for that
in Thunderbird. More sophisticated newsreaders (e.g., Pan) provide that
functionality out-of-the-box.
I don't think "unsophisticated" is particularly negative. I use
Thunderbird and am reasonably happy with it. But the newsreader is only
part of Thunderbird. I wouldn't expect it to be as feature-rich as a
stand-alone newsreader.
--
John
>>> Den 13.03.2023 kl. 10.50 skrev John Dunlop:
>>>
>>>> Even something as unsophisticated as Thunderbird
>
>
> <ahem> Why do you think of TB as 'unsophisticated'?
Because it lacks features that stand-alone newsreaders tend to have. For
>>>
>>>> Even something as unsophisticated as Thunderbird
>
>
> <ahem> Why do you think of TB as 'unsophisticated'?
example, in this group, muting quoted text prevents your space bar from
wearing out (and preserves your sanity). But you need an add-on for that
in Thunderbird. More sophisticated newsreaders (e.g., Pan) provide that
functionality out-of-the-box.
I don't think "unsophisticated" is particularly negative. I use
Thunderbird and am reasonably happy with it. But the newsreader is only
part of Thunderbird. I wouldn't expect it to be as feature-rich as a
stand-alone newsreader.
--
John
Bertel Lund Hansen
Mar 13, 2023, 10:20:29 AM3/13/23
to
Den 13.03.2023 kl. 13.02 skrev John Dunlop:
> Changing the subject line to reflect the content of the subthread would
> be helpful, but not many people do that.
It would make no difference for my view.
> Changing the subject line to reflect the content of the subthread would
> be helpful, but not many people do that.
--
Bertel, Denmark
Bertel Lund Hansen
Mar 13, 2023, 10:27:44 AM3/13/23
to
Den 13.03.2023 kl. 13.57 skrev occam:
> <ahem> Why do you think of TB as 'unsophisticated'?
It has quite strange function for going back and forth in the messages
> <ahem> Why do you think of TB as 'unsophisticated'?
in the sequence that I read them in. It works sometimes, and other times
not. There are messages that I could not read because they had
diappeared from my window, and the back-and-forth didn't find them.
I have learnt to live with Thunderbird, but I miss Agent - the best
newsreader I have tried. I have mentioned before the unique feature with
filters that can be set to disappear after a specific period, and better
still: after a specific period with no activity.
I don't understand that other newsreaders haven't copied it.
--
Bertel, Denmark
occam
Mar 13, 2023, 10:59:47 AM3/13/23
to
On 13/03/2023 15:27, Bertel Lund Hansen wrote:
> Den 13.03.2023 kl. 13.57 skrev occam:
>
>> <ahem> Why do you think of TB as 'unsophisticated'?
>
> It has quite strange function for going back and forth in the messages
> in the sequence that I read them in.
Up arrow and down arrow work fine for me. What sequence do you read them?
> Den 13.03.2023 kl. 13.57 skrev occam:
>
>> <ahem> Why do you think of TB as 'unsophisticated'?
>
> It has quite strange function for going back and forth in the messages
> in the sequence that I read them in.
It works sometimes, and other times
> not. There are messages that I could not read because they had
> diappeared from my window, and the back-and-forth didn't find them.
silly, like inadvertently deleted the specific message. (Easily done.)
>
> I have learnt to live with Thunderbird, but I miss Agent - the best
> newsreader I have tried. I have mentioned before the unique feature with
> filters that can be set to disappear after a specific period, and better
> still: after a specific period with no activity.
>
> I don't understand that other newsreaders haven't copied it.
>
As for filter rules, I'd like to be in control when they are 'on' and
when 'off'. Nothing more annoying than seeing an old banished poster
reappearing in my mailbox, because some 'autopilot' scheme decided to
pardon him/her for past abuses. (Now, what was that clever rule I had
devised for him, which automatically got deleted?)
occam
Mar 13, 2023, 11:16:11 AM3/13/23
to
On 13/03/2023 14:42, John Dunlop wrote:
> occam:
>>>> Den 13.03.2023 kl. 10.50 skrev John Dunlop:
>>>>
>>>>> Even something as unsophisticated as Thunderbird
>>
>>
>> <ahem> Why do you think of TB as 'unsophisticated'?
>
> Because it lacks features that stand-alone newsreaders tend to have. For
> example, in this group, muting quoted text prevents your space bar from
> wearing out (and preserves your sanity). But you need an add-on for that
> in Thunderbird. More sophisticated newsreaders (e.g., Pan) provide that
> functionality out-of-the-box.
On the other hand, if you only use 20% of those 'out-of-the-box'
> occam:
>>>> Den 13.03.2023 kl. 10.50 skrev John Dunlop:
>>>>
>>>>> Even something as unsophisticated as Thunderbird
>>
>>
>> <ahem> Why do you think of TB as 'unsophisticated'?
>
> Because it lacks features that stand-alone newsreaders tend to have. For
> example, in this group, muting quoted text prevents your space bar from
> wearing out (and preserves your sanity). But you need an add-on for that
> in Thunderbird. More sophisticated newsreaders (e.g., Pan) provide that
> functionality out-of-the-box.
features (an overestimate), then - in my book - the remaining 80% of
features are called 'bloat'.
The out-of-the-box feature of TB I appreciate most is the ability to
read my emails in addition to newsgroups. The Swiss Army knife
principle to reading mail.
>
> I don't think "unsophisticated" is particularly negative.
https://www.merriam-webster.com/thesaurus/unsophisticated
'naive' 'lacking in worldly wisdom or informed judgment' and 'crude' are
quite negative and damning descriptions of most things.
Paul Carmichael
Mar 13, 2023, 11:19:20 AM3/13/23
to
El Mon, 13 Mar 2023 13:42:34 +0000, John Dunlop escribió:
> Because it lacks features that stand-alone newsreaders tend to have. For
> example, in this group, muting quoted text prevents your space bar from
> wearing out (and preserves your sanity). But you need an add-on for that
> in Thunderbird. More sophisticated newsreaders (e.g., Pan) provide that
> functionality out-of-the-box.
Pretty sure I've never heard Pan referred to before as sophisticated. I
> Because it lacks features that stand-alone newsreaders tend to have. For
> example, in this group, muting quoted text prevents your space bar from
> wearing out (and preserves your sanity). But you need an add-on for that
> in Thunderbird. More sophisticated newsreaders (e.g., Pan) provide that
> functionality out-of-the-box.
use it because TB kept losing the plot (maybe a linux issue).
--
Paul.
https://paulc.es/elpatio
Bertel Lund Hansen
Mar 13, 2023, 11:22:39 AM3/13/23
to
Den 13.03.2023 kl. 16.19 skrev Paul Carmichael:
> Pretty sure I've never heard Pan referred to before as sophisticated. I
> use it because TB kept losing the plot (maybe a linux issue).
Losing the plot? What do you mean?
> Pretty sure I've never heard Pan referred to before as sophisticated. I
> use it because TB kept losing the plot (maybe a linux issue).
My TB on Linux Mint doesn't lose anything.
--
Bertel, Denmark
Bertel Lund Hansen
Mar 13, 2023, 11:29:23 AM3/13/23
to
Den 13.03.2023 kl. 15.59 skrev occam:
>> It has quite strange function for going back and forth in the messages
>> in the sequence that I read them in.
> Up arrow and down arrow work fine for me. What sequence do you read them?
I read new messages. That means that I may read one from one thread, and
>> It has quite strange function for going back and forth in the messages
>> in the sequence that I read them in.
> Up arrow and down arrow work fine for me. What sequence do you read them?
them one from another thread. Going up doesn't display the previous one.
I have to use AltGr+'[', and sometimes it just has no effect.
> It works sometimes, and other times
>> not. There are messages that I could not read because they had
>> diappeared from my window, and the back-and-forth didn't find them.
>
> When this happens to me, it is usually because I have done something
> silly, like inadvertently deleted the specific message. (Easily done.)
> All of my old messages ('old' as defined by me) disappear automatically.
> As for filter rules, I'd like to be in control when they are 'on' and
> when 'off'. Nothing more annoying than seeing an old banished poster
> reappearing in my mailbox, because some 'autopilot' scheme decided to
> pardon him/her for past abuses. (Now, what was that clever rule I had
> devised for him, which automatically got deleted?)
disappeares when they haven't been active for x days. You can set 365
days if you like.
My filters are filled with rules that may or may not be neccessary.
--
Bertel, Denmark
John Dunlop
Mar 13, 2023, 11:29:29 AM3/13/23
to
occam:
>> I don't think "unsophisticated" is particularly negative.
>
> Well, actually it is.
Not in this context. It means "not complicated or highly developed; basic":
https://www.google.com/search?q=define+unsophisticated
The quotation given is "unsophisticated computer software". There is
nothing necessarily negative about that.
--
John
> On 13/03/2023 14:42, John Dunlop wrote:
(describing Thunderbird)
>> I don't think "unsophisticated" is particularly negative.
>
> Well, actually it is.
https://www.google.com/search?q=define+unsophisticated
The quotation given is "unsophisticated computer software". There is
nothing necessarily negative about that.
--
John
occam
Mar 13, 2023, 11:35:27 AM3/13/23
to
story, Bertel ;-)
Perhaps the 'back-and-forth issue with your TB is also Linux related.
Have you aired the issue on <alt.comp.software.thunderbird>?
John Dunlop
Mar 13, 2023, 11:56:25 AM3/13/23
to
Paul Carmichael:
I'm pretty sure I haven't. "More sophisticated" (i.e., less basic) is a
comparative form. "I'm taller than you" doesn't mean I'm tall.
--
John
> El Mon, 13 Mar 2023 13:42:34 +0000, John Dunlop escribió:
>
>> Because it lacks features that stand-alone newsreaders tend to have. For
>> example, in this group, muting quoted text prevents your space bar from
>> wearing out (and preserves your sanity). But you need an add-on for that
>> in Thunderbird. More sophisticated newsreaders (e.g., Pan) provide that
>> functionality out-of-the-box.
>
> Pretty sure I've never heard Pan referred to before as sophisticated. [...]
>
>> Because it lacks features that stand-alone newsreaders tend to have. For
>> example, in this group, muting quoted text prevents your space bar from
>> wearing out (and preserves your sanity). But you need an add-on for that
>> in Thunderbird. More sophisticated newsreaders (e.g., Pan) provide that
>> functionality out-of-the-box.
>
I'm pretty sure I haven't. "More sophisticated" (i.e., less basic) is a
comparative form. "I'm taller than you" doesn't mean I'm tall.
--
John
Paul Carmichael
Mar 13, 2023, 12:04:42 PM3/13/23
to
It has other little bugs such as every now and then it explodes all
folder views.
I still use it for email. I like to use different progs for different
stuff. That way I don't join the ranks of those that accidentally post a
private email to a newsgroup. I've seen that happen *often*.
--
Paul.
https://paulc.es/elpatio
Paul Carmichael
Mar 13, 2023, 12:05:58 PM3/13/23
to
El Mon, 13 Mar 2023 15:56:21 +0000, John Dunlop escribió:
> I'm pretty sure I haven't. "More sophisticated" (i.e., less basic) is a
> comparative form. "I'm taller than you" doesn't mean I'm tall.
Yes it does, because I'm quite tall.
> I'm pretty sure I haven't. "More sophisticated" (i.e., less basic) is a
> comparative form. "I'm taller than you" doesn't mean I'm tall.
--
Paul.
https://paulc.es/elpatio
John Dunlop
Mar 13, 2023, 12:08:02 PM3/13/23
to
Paul Carmichael:
--
John
> El Mon, 13 Mar 2023 15:56:21 +0000, John Dunlop escribió:
>
>> I'm pretty sure I haven't. "More sophisticated" (i.e., less basic) is a
>> comparative form. "I'm taller than you" doesn't mean I'm tall.
>
> Yes it does, because I'm quite tall.
I knew you were going to say that.
>
>> I'm pretty sure I haven't. "More sophisticated" (i.e., less basic) is a
>> comparative form. "I'm taller than you" doesn't mean I'm tall.
>
> Yes it does, because I'm quite tall.
--
John
Paul Carmichael
Mar 13, 2023, 12:54:14 PM3/13/23
to
John Dunlop
Mar 13, 2023, 12:58:40 PM3/13/23
to
Paul Carmichael:
> El Mon, 13 Mar 2023 16:07:57 +0000, John Dunlop escribió:
>
>> Paul Carmichael:
>>> El Mon, 13 Mar 2023 15:56:21 +0000, John Dunlop escribió:
>>>
>>>> I'm pretty sure I haven't. "More sophisticated" (i.e., less basic) is
>>>> a comparative form. "I'm taller than you" doesn't mean I'm tall.
>>>
>>> Yes it does, because I'm quite tall.
>>
>> I knew you were going to say that.
>
> What do you think of the show so far?
Time ill spent.
> El Mon, 13 Mar 2023 16:07:57 +0000, John Dunlop escribió:
>
>> Paul Carmichael:
>>> El Mon, 13 Mar 2023 15:56:21 +0000, John Dunlop escribió:
>>>
>>>> I'm pretty sure I haven't. "More sophisticated" (i.e., less basic) is
>>>> a comparative form. "I'm taller than you" doesn't mean I'm tall.
>>>
>>> Yes it does, because I'm quite tall.
>>
>> I knew you were going to say that.
>
> What do you think of the show so far?
--
John
Tak To
Mar 13, 2023, 1:29:57 PM3/13/23
to
On 3/13/2023 10:27 AM, Bertel Lund Hansen wrote:
> Den 13.03.2023 kl. 13.57 skrev occam:
>
>> <ahem> Why do you think of TB as 'unsophisticated'?
>
> It has quite strange function for going back and forth in the messages
> in the sequence that I read them in. It works sometimes, and other times
> not. There are messages that I could not read because they had
> diappeared from my window, and the back-and-forth didn't find them.
If a message disappears from the listing window, 9 times out
> Den 13.03.2023 kl. 13.57 skrev occam:
>
>> <ahem> Why do you think of TB as 'unsophisticated'?
>
> It has quite strange function for going back and forth in the messages
> in the sequence that I read them in. It works sometimes, and other times
> not. There are messages that I could not read because they had
> diappeared from my window, and the back-and-forth didn't find them.
of 10 it is because it has been marked as read. There are two
stages of filtering in TB, one is at the View-Threads-
{All,Unread...} level, the other at the Tag/Quick Filter
level. The confusing thing is that a read message won't
disappear immediately, but will after any event that updates
the display.
This brings me to my biggest gripe about TB -- there is no
"undo" for marking a message as read (either explicitly
or implicitly). Ideally there should be a separate undo-
stack that let the user "unread" the past N messages.
> I have learnt to live with Thunderbird, but I miss Agent - the best
> newsreader I have tried. I have mentioned before the unique feature with
> filters that can be set to disappear after a specific period, and better
> still: after a specific period with no activity.
>
> I don't understand that other newsreaders haven't copied it.
I never like any sort of automatic *filtering* schemes (including
"kill" features).
I am more in favor of *retaining* schemes. For example, I would
like to mark a subthread/set of messages as "retained" so that
they would be visible in the listing window by default regardless
of their "read" status, together with all never-read messages.
Currently I have to set individual messages as "unread" and
"starred" to approximate the effect, and that is far from ideal.
I prefer filtering capability on duration of inactivity, etc,
to expiration dates on retained subthread/messages.
----- -----
I have never used other newsreaders than TB extensively but I
have read the descriptions of many of them in the group.
Somehow, I rarely found those "advanced" features found outside
of TB useful.
Features in TB that I would like to see
(1) A sophisticated MBOX file repairing tool. There are a number
of garbled MBOX files on my disk. I don't know what went wrong,
and I could not see anything obvious in a text editor. However,
TB hangs while trying to create the index files for them.
(2) In the editor, the ability to make "hard" newlines and
chevrons distinguishable from "soft" ones.
(3) Ability to export subthreads/messages as .zip files.
(4) Ability to override tag precedence; or some way to do
global tag replacements.
Etc
--
Tak
----------------------------------------------------------------+-----
Tak To ta...@alum.mit.eduxx
--------------------------------------------------------------------^^
[taode takto ~{LU5B~}] NB: trim the xx to get my real email addr
Tak To
Mar 13, 2023, 1:32:32 PM3/13/23
to
On 3/13/2023 9:42 AM, John Dunlop wrote:
> occam:
>>>> Den 13.03.2023 kl. 10.50 skrev John Dunlop:
>>>>
>>>>> Even something as unsophisticated as Thunderbird
>>
>>
>> <ahem> Why do you think of TB as 'unsophisticated'?
>
> Because it lacks features that stand-alone newsreaders tend to have. For
> example, in this group, muting quoted text prevents your space bar from
> wearing out (and preserves your sanity). But you need an add-on for that
> in Thunderbird. More sophisticated newsreaders (e.g., Pan) provide that
> functionality out-of-the-box.
Is "muting quoted text" same as greying it out? What does the
> occam:
>>>> Den 13.03.2023 kl. 10.50 skrev John Dunlop:
>>>>
>>>>> Even something as unsophisticated as Thunderbird
>>
>>
>> <ahem> Why do you think of TB as 'unsophisticated'?
>
> Because it lacks features that stand-alone newsreaders tend to have. For
> example, in this group, muting quoted text prevents your space bar from
> wearing out (and preserves your sanity). But you need an add-on for that
> in Thunderbird. More sophisticated newsreaders (e.g., Pan) provide that
> functionality out-of-the-box.
space bar do in this context in TB?
Tak To
Mar 13, 2023, 1:39:22 PM3/13/23
to
and do make use of the fact.
At times I change the subject lines myself, but have no idea if the
changes make any difference to anyone.
Ken Blake
Mar 13, 2023, 1:47:48 PM3/13/23
to
On 13 Mar 2023 16:04:37 GMT, Paul Carmichael <wibble...@gmail.com>
wrote:
>El Mon, 13 Mar 2023 16:22:34 +0100, Bertel Lund Hansen escribió:
>
>> Den 13.03.2023 kl. 16.19 skrev Paul Carmichael:
>>
>>> Pretty sure I've never heard Pan referred to before as sophisticated. I
>>> use it because TB kept losing the plot (maybe a linux issue).
>>
>> Losing the plot? What do you mean?
>>
>> My TB on Linux Mint doesn't lose anything.
>
>
>Mine does. Now and again it unsubscribes from all groups.
That was the problem I had with Thunderbird under Windows 11, and it's
why I switched away from Thunderbird and went back to Agent 6.0.
>It has other little bugs such as every now and then it explodes all
>folder views.
>
>I still use it for email.
So do I.
> I like to use different progs for different
>stuff.
I generally do too, but not for your reason (see below).
>That way I don't join the ranks of those that accidentally post a
>private email to a newsgroup. I've seen that happen *often*.
I generally prefer different programs because it's rare that the same
program is what I consider to be the best in two different categories.
It's the same reason I dislike the idea of software suites; for
example I think Microsoft Excel is the best.spreadsheet program, but
Corel WordPerfect is the best word processor.
wrote:
>El Mon, 13 Mar 2023 16:22:34 +0100, Bertel Lund Hansen escribió:
>
>> Den 13.03.2023 kl. 16.19 skrev Paul Carmichael:
>>
>>> Pretty sure I've never heard Pan referred to before as sophisticated. I
>>> use it because TB kept losing the plot (maybe a linux issue).
>>
>> Losing the plot? What do you mean?
>>
>> My TB on Linux Mint doesn't lose anything.
>
>
>Mine does. Now and again it unsubscribes from all groups.
why I switched away from Thunderbird and went back to Agent 6.0.
>It has other little bugs such as every now and then it explodes all
>folder views.
>
>I still use it for email.
> I like to use different progs for different
>stuff.
>That way I don't join the ranks of those that accidentally post a
>private email to a newsgroup. I've seen that happen *often*.
program is what I consider to be the best in two different categories.
It's the same reason I dislike the idea of software suites; for
example I think Microsoft Excel is the best.spreadsheet program, but
Corel WordPerfect is the best word processor.
Ken Blake
Mar 13, 2023, 1:50:47 PM3/13/23
to
On Mon, 13 Mar 2023 15:27:40 +0100, Bertel Lund Hansen
<gade...@lundhansen.dk> wrote:
>Den 13.03.2023 kl. 13.57 skrev occam:
>
>> <ahem> Why do you think of TB as 'unsophisticated'?
>
>It has quite strange function for going back and forth in the messages
>in the sequence that I read them in. It works sometimes, and other times
>not. There are messages that I could not read because they had
>diappeared from my window, and the back-and-forth didn't find them.
>
>I have learnt to live with Thunderbird, but I miss Agent - the best
>newsreader I have tried.
I use and like Agent, but I liked Thunderbird at least as much.
<gade...@lundhansen.dk> wrote:
>Den 13.03.2023 kl. 13.57 skrev occam:
>
>> <ahem> Why do you think of TB as 'unsophisticated'?
>
>It has quite strange function for going back and forth in the messages
>in the sequence that I read them in. It works sometimes, and other times
>not. There are messages that I could not read because they had
>diappeared from my window, and the back-and-forth didn't find them.
>
>I have learnt to live with Thunderbird, but I miss Agent - the best
>newsreader I have tried.
Why do you miss it? Why not switch to it if you think it's the best.?
John Dunlop
Mar 13, 2023, 2:03:57 PM3/13/23
to
Tak To:
>> Because it lacks features that stand-alone newsreaders tend to have. For
>> example, in this group, muting quoted text prevents your space bar from
>> wearing out (and preserves your sanity). But you need an add-on for that
>> in Thunderbird. More sophisticated newsreaders (e.g., Pan) provide that
>> functionality out-of-the-box.
>
> Is "muting quoted text" same as greying it out?
The extension I use gives you the option of hiding ("collapsing") the
quoted text completely or leaving a few lines visible at the bottom. It
also allows you to collapse or expand individual levels of quotes.
> What does the space bar do in this context in TB?
Moves the text in the message pane up one ... eh, pane-ful. After you
reach the bottom, it moves you to the next unread message.
--
John
> On 3/13/2023 9:42 AM, John Dunlop wrote:
(Thunderbird)
>> Because it lacks features that stand-alone newsreaders tend to have. For
>> example, in this group, muting quoted text prevents your space bar from
>> wearing out (and preserves your sanity). But you need an add-on for that
>> in Thunderbird. More sophisticated newsreaders (e.g., Pan) provide that
>> functionality out-of-the-box.
>
> Is "muting quoted text" same as greying it out?
quoted text completely or leaving a few lines visible at the bottom. It
also allows you to collapse or expand individual levels of quotes.
> What does the space bar do in this context in TB?
reach the bottom, it moves you to the next unread message.
--
John
Kerr-Mudd, John
Mar 13, 2023, 4:01:29 PM3/13/23
to
On Mon, 13 Mar 2023 13:39:17 -0400
Tak To <ta...@alum.mit.eduxx> wrote:
> On 3/13/2023 10:20 AM, Bertel Lund Hansen wrote:
> > Den 13.03.2023 kl. 13.02 skrev John Dunlop:
> >
> >> Changing the subject line to reflect the content of the subthread would
> >> be helpful, but not many people do that.
> >
> > It would make no difference for my view.
>
> I appreciate people changing the subject lines appropriately.
> and do make use of the fact.
>
> At times I change the subject lines myself, but have no idea if the
> changes make any difference to anyone.
>
I got told off for doing it in here, once upon a time.
Tak To <ta...@alum.mit.eduxx> wrote:
> On 3/13/2023 10:20 AM, Bertel Lund Hansen wrote:
> > Den 13.03.2023 kl. 13.02 skrev John Dunlop:
> >
> >> Changing the subject line to reflect the content of the subthread would
> >> be helpful, but not many people do that.
> >
> > It would make no difference for my view.
>
> I appreciate people changing the subject lines appropriately.
> and do make use of the fact.
>
> At times I change the subject lines myself, but have no idea if the
> changes make any difference to anyone.
>
--
Bah, and indeed Humbug.
TonyCooper
Mar 13, 2023, 4:09:34 PM3/13/23
to
--
Tony Cooper - Orlando,Florida
Bertel Lund Hansen
Mar 13, 2023, 4:27:11 PM3/13/23
to
Den 13.03.2023 kl. 16.35 skrev occam:
>> My TB on Linux Mint doesn't lose anything.
>>
>
> ...other than the messages that go a-missing? (You need a consistent
> story, Bertel ;-)
The messages are still there. I just can't find them.
>> My TB on Linux Mint doesn't lose anything.
>>
>
> ...other than the messages that go a-missing? (You need a consistent
> story, Bertel ;-)
> Perhaps the 'back-and-forth issue with your TB is also Linux related.
> Have you aired the issue on <alt.comp.software.thunderbird>?
through a lot of work only to find that it didn't solve the problem.
--
Bertel, Denmark
Bertel Lund Hansen
Mar 13, 2023, 4:30:12 PM3/13/23
to
Den 13.03.2023 kl. 17.04 skrev Paul Carmichael:
> I still use it for email. I like to use different progs for different
> stuff. That way I don't join the ranks of those that accidentally post a
> private email to a newsgroup. I've seen that happen *often*.
It hasn't happened to me, neither in Agent nor in TB. I've more often
> I still use it for email. I like to use different progs for different
> stuff. That way I don't join the ranks of those that accidentally post a
> private email to a newsgroup. I've seen that happen *often*.
seen usenet messaghes be sent as private email. I haven't done that either.
I like to have both functions in one program because I may want to email
a person that has written something in a newsgroup. I did that maybe
twice a year but that is a long time ago.
--
Bertel, Denmark
Bertel Lund Hansen
Mar 13, 2023, 4:31:30 PM3/13/23
to
Den 13.03.2023 kl. 18.47 skrev Ken Blake:
> That was the problem I had with Thunderbird under Windows 11, and it's
> why I switched away from Thunderbird and went back to Agent 6.0.
I tried Agent 6 under Wine a second time, but it (or Wine) crashed.
> That was the problem I had with Thunderbird under Windows 11, and it's
> why I switched away from Thunderbird and went back to Agent 6.0.
--
Bertel, Denmark
occam
Mar 13, 2023, 4:32:27 PM3/13/23
to
confession. I did rebuke him on one occasion (and promptly reversed the
subject line), on the grounds that it was an unnecessary act of 'tidying
up'.
Bertel Lund Hansen
Mar 13, 2023, 4:41:18 PM3/13/23
to
Den 13.03.2023 kl. 18.29 skrev Tak To:
>> It has quite strange function for going back and forth in the messages
>> in the sequence that I read them in. It works sometimes, and other times
>> not. There are messages that I could not read because they had
>> diappeared from my window, and the back-and-forth didn't find them.
>
> If a message disappears from the listing window, 9 times out
> of 10 it is because it has been marked as read.
Not here. Messages are marked as read the second they are displayed.
>> It has quite strange function for going back and forth in the messages
>> in the sequence that I read them in. It works sometimes, and other times
>> not. There are messages that I could not read because they had
>> diappeared from my window, and the back-and-forth didn't find them.
>
> If a message disappears from the listing window, 9 times out
> of 10 it is because it has been marked as read.
> There are two
> stages of filtering in TB, one is at the View-Threads-
> {All,Unread...} level, the other at the Tag/Quick Filter
> level. The confusing thing is that a read message won't
> disappear immediately, but will after any event that updates
> the display.
are only active while fetching.
> This brings me to my biggest gripe about TB -- there is no
> "undo" for marking a message as read (either explicitly
> or implicitly).
many as you like.
>> I have learnt to live with Thunderbird, but I miss Agent - the best
>> newsreader I have tried. I have mentioned before the unique feature with
>> filters that can be set to disappear after a specific period, and better
>> still: after a specific period with no activity.
>>
>> I don't understand that other newsreaders haven't copied it.
>
> Users have a different usage pattern.
> Features in TB that I would like to see
>
> (1) A sophisticated MBOX file repairing tool. There are a number
> of garbled MBOX files on my disk. I don't know what went wrong,
> and I could not see anything obvious in a text editor. However,
> TB hangs while trying to create the index files for them.
like that happened to me.
--
Bertel, Denmark
Bertel Lund Hansen
Mar 13, 2023, 4:42:37 PM3/13/23
to
Den 13.03.2023 kl. 18.50 skrev Ken Blake:
> Why do you miss it? Why not switch to it if you think it's the best.?
Because I now run Linux. Agent can run under Wine, but it crashes. I've
> Why do you miss it? Why not switch to it if you think it's the best.?
tried it twice.
--
Bertel, Denmark
Peter Moylan
Mar 13, 2023, 8:39:48 PM3/13/23
to
the subject line changed. I don't think that happens any more.
--
Peter Moylan Newcastle, NSW http://www.pmoylan.org
Bertel Lund Hansen
Mar 14, 2023, 3:26:03 AM3/14/23
to
Den 14.03.2023 kl. 01.39 skrev Peter Moylan:
> There used to be some broken newsreaders that started a new thread when
> the subject line changed. I don't think that happens any more.
In Agent you can choose that if they haven't removed the option in the
> There used to be some broken newsreaders that started a new thread when
> the subject line changed. I don't think that happens any more.
present version.
I have forgotten whether it's an option in TB.
--
Bertel, Denmark
Snidely
Mar 14, 2023, 3:26:59 AM3/14/23
to
John Dunlop asserted that:
Doesn't bring in many drachmas for me, either, but I swear less at my
computer when I'm reading AUE than when I'm trying to get it to do
other things, so I guess I get some relaxation from AUE.
Too bad I never got any sheep.
/dps
--
Yes, I have had a cucumber soda. Why do you ask?
computer when I'm reading AUE than when I'm trying to get it to do
other things, so I guess I get some relaxation from AUE.
Too bad I never got any sheep.
/dps
--
Yes, I have had a cucumber soda. Why do you ask?
Snidely
Mar 14, 2023, 3:30:00 AM3/14/23
to
Bertel Lund Hansen formulated the question :
frozen in time. (Same thing happened to my favorite CD player program,
and to an editor I used to be very fond of.)
/dps
--
"Maintaining a really good conspiracy requires far more intelligent
application, by a large number of people, than the world can readily
supply."
Sam Plusnet
> Den 13.03.2023 kl. 13.57 skrev occam:
>
>> <ahem> Why do you think of TB as 'unsophisticated'?
>
>
>> <ahem> Why do you think of TB as 'unsophisticated'?
>
> It has quite strange function for going back and forth in the messages in the
> sequence that I read them in. It works sometimes, and other times not. There
> are messages that I could not read because they had diappeared from my
> window, and the back-and-forth didn't find them.
>
> sequence that I read them in. It works sometimes, and other times not. There
> are messages that I could not read because they had diappeared from my
> window, and the back-and-forth didn't find them.
>
> I have learnt to live with Thunderbird, but I miss Agent - the best
> newsreader I have tried. I have mentioned before the unique feature with
> filters that can be set to disappear after a specific period, and better
> still: after a specific period with no activity.
>
> I don't understand that other newsreaders haven't copied it.
Ah, Mesnews has something along those lines, but on the downside, it is
> newsreader I have tried. I have mentioned before the unique feature with
> filters that can be set to disappear after a specific period, and better
> still: after a specific period with no activity.
>
> I don't understand that other newsreaders haven't copied it.
frozen in time. (Same thing happened to my favorite CD player program,
and to an editor I used to be very fond of.)
/dps
--
"Maintaining a really good conspiracy requires far more intelligent
application, by a large number of people, than the world can readily
supply."
Sam Plusnet
Snidely
Mar 14, 2023, 3:35:33 AM3/14/23
to
On Monday, Tak To pointed out that ...
> This brings me to my biggest gripe about TB -- there is no
> "undo" for marking a message as read (either explicitly
> or implicitly). Ideally there should be a separate undo-
> stack that let the user "unread" the past N messages.
Back when readnews was the sophisticated tool for reading Usenet (4.x
BSD on Vaxen that got larger every couple of years), knowing how to
tweak a .newsrc was a useful skill. Even when Larry Wall's rn took
front stage, that was a known fall back. And it still seems a good
idea to back up the current descendant of .newsrc from time to time.
> This brings me to my biggest gripe about TB -- there is no
> "undo" for marking a message as read (either explicitly
> or implicitly). Ideally there should be a separate undo-
> stack that let the user "unread" the past N messages.
BSD on Vaxen that got larger every couple of years), knowing how to
tweak a .newsrc was a useful skill. Even when Larry Wall's rn took
front stage, that was a known fall back. And it still seems a good
idea to back up the current descendant of .newsrc from time to time.
Snidely
Mar 14, 2023, 3:41:04 AM3/14/23
to
Monday, Bertel Lund Hansen quipped:
For forensic purposes, I might look at hex dump to see if any unusual
character values have crept in. In UTF8, sometimes a multibyte
character might be in a non-canonical form, for instance, or a break of
some sort (buffer boundary condition, perhaps) may have introduced an
illegal value that your editor chooses to ignore.
/dps "don't ask me how I know this"
--
Killing a mouse was hardly a Nobel Prize-worthy exercise, and Lawrence
went apopleptic when he learned a lousy rodent had peed away all his
precious heavy water.
_The Disappearing Spoon_, Sam Kean
character values have crept in. In UTF8, sometimes a multibyte
character might be in a non-canonical form, for instance, or a break of
some sort (buffer boundary condition, perhaps) may have introduced an
illegal value that your editor chooses to ignore.
/dps "don't ask me how I know this"
--
Killing a mouse was hardly a Nobel Prize-worthy exercise, and Lawrence
went apopleptic when he learned a lousy rodent had peed away all his
precious heavy water.
_The Disappearing Spoon_, Sam Kean
Snidely
Mar 14, 2023, 3:43:40 AM3/14/23
to
Snidely is guilty of <mn.701d7e735742ccdf.127094@snitoo> as of
3/14/2023 12:29:52 AM
> frozen in time. (Same thing happened to my favorite CD player program
> ...
I currently like VLC a lot, but it is missing "stop after the current
track". Something I like when playing certain pieces, like the Enigma
Variations.
/dps
--
"This is all very fine, but let us not be carried away be excitement,
but ask calmly, how does this person feel about in in his cooler
moments next day, with six or seven thousand feet of snow and stuff on
top of him?"
_Roughing It_, Mark Twain.
3/14/2023 12:29:52 AM
> frozen in time. (Same thing happened to my favorite CD player program
I currently like VLC a lot, but it is missing "stop after the current
track". Something I like when playing certain pieces, like the Enigma
Variations.
/dps
--
"This is all very fine, but let us not be carried away be excitement,
but ask calmly, how does this person feel about in in his cooler
moments next day, with six or seven thousand feet of snow and stuff on
top of him?"
_Roughing It_, Mark Twain.
Peter Moylan
Mar 14, 2023, 3:45:36 AM3/14/23
to
On 14/03/23 18:35, Snidely wrote:
> On Monday, Tak To pointed out that ...
>
>> This brings me to my biggest gripe about TB -- there is no "undo"
>> for marking a message as read (either explicitly or implicitly).
>> Ideally there should be a separate undo- stack that let the user
>> "unread" the past N messages.
>
> Back when readnews was the sophisticated tool for reading Usenet (4.x
> BSD on Vaxen that got larger every couple of years), knowing how to
> tweak a .newsrc was a useful skill. Even when Larry Wall's rn took
> front stage, that was a known fall back. And it still seems a good
> idea to back up the current descendant of .newsrc from time to time.
Those files still exist in Thunderbird. The filenames are of the form
> On Monday, Tak To pointed out that ...
>
>> This brings me to my biggest gripe about TB -- there is no "undo"
>> for marking a message as read (either explicitly or implicitly).
>> Ideally there should be a separate undo- stack that let the user
>> "unread" the past N messages.
>
> Back when readnews was the sophisticated tool for reading Usenet (4.x
> BSD on Vaxen that got larger every couple of years), knowing how to
> tweak a .newsrc was a useful skill. Even when Larry Wall's rn took
> front stage, that was a known fall back. And it still seems a good
> idea to back up the current descendant of .newsrc from time to time.
servername.rc, and the content is the same as a traditional .newsrc
file. The only hard part is that, as with all Mozilla files, the files
are buried several layers down in your MOZPROFILES directory.
Kerr-Mudd, John
Mar 14, 2023, 5:08:45 AM3/14/23
to
Bertel Lund Hansen
Mar 14, 2023, 5:56:48 AM3/14/23
to
Den 14.03.2023 kl. 08.45 skrev Peter Moylan:
> Those files still exist in Thunderbird. The filenames are of the form
> servername.rc,
On my system it is "newsrc-news.eternal-september-1.org".
> Those files still exist in Thunderbird. The filenames are of the form
> servername.rc,
--
Bertel, Denmark
Peter Moylan
Mar 14, 2023, 7:02:35 AM3/14/23
to
system, the .org files are directories, one for each news server,
containing a bunch of configuration files.
HVS
Mar 14, 2023, 10:05:03 AM3/14/23
to
On 14 Mar 2023, Bertel Lund Hansen wrote
It's there in XNews -- a tick-box for "Start new thread when subject
changes". I think I'd expect a "proper" newsreader to have that
option.
(Am I the only one here that still uses XNews? I was pleased to find
that since it's a simple executable that doesn't need to be
"installed", it still works fine on Windows 10. I've got 5
programs/utilities from the olden days that are like that.)
--
Cheers, Harvey
changes". I think I'd expect a "proper" newsreader to have that
option.
(Am I the only one here that still uses XNews? I was pleased to find
that since it's a simple executable that doesn't need to be
"installed", it still works fine on Windows 10. I've got 5
programs/utilities from the olden days that are like that.)
--
Cheers, Harvey
bruce bowser
Mar 14, 2023, 11:01:42 AM3/14/23
to
On Monday, March 13, 2023 at 4:56:10 AM UTC-4, Michael Uplawski wrote:
> Good morning.
>
> I cannot contribute much to any discussion at this moment, but reading
> alt.usage.english has become just as difficult:
> My newsreader marks filtered postings but does not remove them from the
> threads. With about 90% of the content being reduced to mere clutter,
> this newsgroup has beaten all recoeds in a short time. This can be a
> problem of my program, but I will stick to it for other reasons.
>
> Can you recommed a different group, possibly outside the alt-hierachy
> for English languge topics?
Of course, fr.lettres.langue.anglaise
> Good morning.
>
> I cannot contribute much to any discussion at this moment, but reading
> alt.usage.english has become just as difficult:
> My newsreader marks filtered postings but does not remove them from the
> threads. With about 90% of the content being reduced to mere clutter,
> this newsgroup has beaten all recoeds in a short time. This can be a
> problem of my program, but I will stick to it for other reasons.
>
> Can you recommed a different group, possibly outside the alt-hierachy
> for English languge topics?
Of course, fr.lettres.langue.anglaise
Kerr-Mudd, John
Mar 14, 2023, 11:16:54 AM3/14/23
to
(maybe UTF8)?
Bertel Lund Hansen
Mar 14, 2023, 11:20:52 AM3/14/23
to
Den 14.03.2023 kl. 15.04 skrev HVS:
> (Am I the only one here that still uses XNews?
No. From February:
> (Am I the only one here that still uses XNews?
Newsreader Writers Messages Average
1 G2 49 1'195 24.4
2 Thunderbird 22 788 35.8
3 ForteAgent ? 5 168 33.6
4 Forte Agent 4 136 34.0
5 Trn 3 39 13.0
6 Pan 3 38 12.7
7 Opera Mail 3 34 11.3
8 XNews 3 13 4.3
9 Sylpheed 2 283 141.5
10 Slrn 2 19 9.5
11 Xananews 2 5 2.5
12 MacSoup 1 181 181.0
13 Unison 1 134 134.0
14 Mesnews 1 107 107.0
15 Turnpike 1 48 48.0
16 Pluto 1 35 35.0
17 Microplanet-Gravity 1 18 18.0
18 Gnus 1 9 9.0
19 Hogwasher 1 5 5.0
20 Claws Mail 1 3 3.0
21 Tin 1 2 2.0
22 Newstap 1 2 2.0
Unknown 7 194
--
Bertel, Denmark
lar3ryca
Mar 14, 2023, 11:47:44 AM3/14/23
to
On 2023-03-14 01:43, Snidely wrote:
> Snidely is guilty of <mn.701d7e735742ccdf.127094@snitoo> as of 3/14/2023
> 12:29:52 AM
>
>> frozen in time. (Same thing happened to my favorite CD player program
>> ...
>
> I currently like VLC a lot, but it is missing "stop after the current
> track". Something I like when playing certain pieces, like the Enigma
> Variations.
Strange. In my version (3.0.16 Vetinari), hovering over the loop button
> Snidely is guilty of <mn.701d7e735742ccdf.127094@snitoo> as of 3/14/2023
> 12:29:52 AM
>
>> frozen in time. (Same thing happened to my favorite CD player program
>> ...
>
> I currently like VLC a lot, but it is missing "stop after the current
> track". Something I like when playing certain pieces, like the Enigma
> Variations.
specifies /loop all, loop one, and no loop/, but 'no loop' works the
same as 'loop one'.
--
An apple every eight hours will keep three doctors away.
Ken Blake
Mar 14, 2023, 12:55:36 PM3/14/23
to
On Tue, 14 Mar 2023 08:25:57 +0100, Bertel Lund Hansen
<gade...@lundhansen.dk> wrote:
>Den 14.03.2023 kl. 01.39 skrev Peter Moylan:
>
>> There used to be some broken newsreaders that started a new thread when
>> the subject line changed. I don't think that happens any more.
>
>In Agent you can choose that if they haven't removed the option in the
>present version.
I didn't want to do that, but out of curiosity I just went to Options
<gade...@lundhansen.dk> wrote:
>Den 14.03.2023 kl. 01.39 skrev Peter Moylan:
>
>> There used to be some broken newsreaders that started a new thread when
>> the subject line changed. I don't think that happens any more.
>
>In Agent you can choose that if they haven't removed the option in the
>present version.
(Agent 6.0) and looked for it. I didn't find it. Is it there in 6.0?
Do you know where?
Ken Blake
Mar 14, 2023, 12:58:13 PM3/14/23
to
On Tue, 14 Mar 2023 14:04:59 GMT, HVS <off...@REMOVETHISwhhvs.co.uk>
wrote:
I don't use XNews, but I have a question about your last sentence: are
you implying that programs and utilities are two different things? To
me, a utility is a kind of program,
wrote:
you implying that programs and utilities are two different things? To
me, a utility is a kind of program,
Ken Blake
Mar 14, 2023, 1:01:15 PM3/14/23
to
don't remember) and have only liked Thunderbird and Agent (also
Outlook Express, but that's not a option in recent versions of
Windows).
Ken Blake
Mar 14, 2023, 1:04:45 PM3/14/23
to
be done. It's likely to confuse at least some participants. Moreover
the person who changes it may prefer the different subject line, but
not everyone will.
Ken Blake
Mar 14, 2023, 1:07:53 PM3/14/23
to
sauvignon, malbec, sauvignon blanc, chardonnay, etc,), so I know
nothing about agent running under it.
Ken Blake
Mar 14, 2023, 1:12:10 PM3/14/23
to
HVS
Mar 14, 2023, 1:42:31 PM3/14/23
to
On 14 Mar 2023, Ken Blake wrote
You're absolutely right, but I was thinking of a distinction between
things that do a single, specific job ("T-Clock" customises the tray
clock), and others that do more complex tasks ("XnView", an image
viewer/manager for basic editing, batch conversions or renaming -- or
"PdftkBuilder", which splits pdfs into separate pages, or combines
individual pages into a single pdf).
"Utilities and applications" is probably better, but I think of
applications as more of a smartphone thing, so "program" came to
mind.
--
Cheers,
Harvey
things that do a single, specific job ("T-Clock" customises the tray
clock), and others that do more complex tasks ("XnView", an image
viewer/manager for basic editing, batch conversions or renaming -- or
"PdftkBuilder", which splits pdfs into separate pages, or combines
individual pages into a single pdf).
"Utilities and applications" is probably better, but I think of
applications as more of a smartphone thing, so "program" came to
mind.
--
Cheers,
Harvey
Ken Blake
Mar 14, 2023, 2:20:05 PM3/14/23
to
On Tue, 14 Mar 2023 17:42:26 GMT, HVS <off...@REMOVETHISwhhvs.co.uk>
OK. No big deal.
>"Utilities and applications" is probably better,
Yes.
>but I think of
>applications as more of a smartphone thing,
Not me. As far as I'm concerned, an application can be either or both
a smartphone and desktop or laptop computer thing.
Also a mainframe thing.
>"Utilities and applications" is probably better,
>but I think of
>applications as more of a smartphone thing,
a smartphone and desktop or laptop computer thing.
Also a mainframe thing.
Sam Plusnet
Mar 14, 2023, 4:03:20 PM3/14/23
to
temperature.
[1] Faucet if you must.
--
Sam Plusnet
Peter T. Daniels
Mar 14, 2023, 4:24:55 PM3/14/23
to
Snidely
Mar 14, 2023, 6:24:12 PM3/14/23
to
Remember Tuesday, when lar3ryca asked plaintively:
tell you to play the next selection" without having to clear the
playlist.
> On 2023-03-14 01:43, Snidely wrote:
>> Snidely is guilty of <mn.701d7e735742ccdf.127094@snitoo> as of 3/14/2023
>> 12:29:52 AM
>>
>>> frozen in time. (Same thing happened to my favorite CD player program
>>> ...
>>
>> I currently like VLC a lot, but it is missing "stop after the current
>> track". Something I like when playing certain pieces, like the Enigma
>> Variations.
>
> Strange. In my version (3.0.16 Vetinari), hovering over the loop button
> specifies /loop all, loop one, and no loop/, but 'no loop' works the same as
> 'loop one'.
I'm not wanting to loop. I want "play this, stop, and wait for me to
>> Snidely is guilty of <mn.701d7e735742ccdf.127094@snitoo> as of 3/14/2023
>> 12:29:52 AM
>>
>>> frozen in time. (Same thing happened to my favorite CD player program
>>> ...
>>
>> I currently like VLC a lot, but it is missing "stop after the current
>> track". Something I like when playing certain pieces, like the Enigma
>> Variations.
>
> Strange. In my version (3.0.16 Vetinari), hovering over the loop button
> specifies /loop all, loop one, and no loop/, but 'no loop' works the same as
> 'loop one'.
tell you to play the next selection" without having to clear the
playlist.
Sam Plusnet
Mar 14, 2023, 7:21:27 PM3/14/23
to
On 14-Mar-23 22:24, Snidely wrote:
> Remember Tuesday, when lar3ryca asked plaintively:
>> On 2023-03-14 01:43, Snidely wrote:
>>> Snidely is guilty of <mn.701d7e735742ccdf.127094@snitoo> as of
>>> 3/14/2023 12:29:52 AM
>>>
>>>> frozen in time. (Same thing happened to my favorite CD player program
>>>> ...
>>>
>>> I currently like VLC a lot, but it is missing "stop after the current
>>> track". Something I like when playing certain pieces, like the
>>> Enigma Variations.
>>
>> Strange. In my version (3.0.16 Vetinari), hovering over the loop
>> button specifies /loop all, loop one, and no loop/, but 'no loop'
>> works the same as 'loop one'.
>
> I'm not wanting to loop. I want "play this, stop, and wait for me to
> tell you to play the next selection" without having to clear the playlist.
>
When I want to do this, I open the relevant 'folder' in win explorer and
> Remember Tuesday, when lar3ryca asked plaintively:
>> On 2023-03-14 01:43, Snidely wrote:
>>> Snidely is guilty of <mn.701d7e735742ccdf.127094@snitoo> as of
>>> 3/14/2023 12:29:52 AM
>>>
>>>> frozen in time. (Same thing happened to my favorite CD player program
>>>> ...
>>>
>>> I currently like VLC a lot, but it is missing "stop after the current
>>> track". Something I like when playing certain pieces, like the
>>> Enigma Variations.
>>
>> Strange. In my version (3.0.16 Vetinari), hovering over the loop
>> button specifies /loop all, loop one, and no loop/, but 'no loop'
>> works the same as 'loop one'.
>
> I'm not wanting to loop. I want "play this, stop, and wait for me to
> tell you to play the next selection" without having to clear the playlist.
>
right click on the file.
'Play with VLC'.
Rinse & repeat for any later selections.
--
Sam Plusnet
Snidely
Mar 14, 2023, 7:39:30 PM3/14/23
to
After serious thinking Sam Plusnet wrote :
I haven't bothered ripping my CDs.
/dps
--
But happiness cannot be pursued; it must ensue. One must have a reason
to 'be happy.'"
Viktor Frankl
/dps
--
But happiness cannot be pursued; it must ensue. One must have a reason
to 'be happy.'"
Viktor Frankl
Bertel Lund Hansen
Mar 15, 2023, 3:23:35 AM3/15/23
to
Den 14.03.2023 kl. 17.55 skrev Ken Blake:
> I didn't want to do that, but out of curiosity I just went to Options
> (Agent 6.0) and looked for it. I didn't find it. Is it there in 6.0?
> Do you know where?
No, and I am not sure that I want to install Wine and Agent again just
> I didn't want to do that, but out of curiosity I just went to Options
> (Agent 6.0) and looked for it. I didn't find it. Is it there in 6.0?
> Do you know where?
to check it.
--
Bertel, Denmark
bruce bowser
Mar 15, 2023, 12:04:45 PM3/15/23
to
Tak To
Mar 15, 2023, 12:49:10 PM3/15/23
to
On 3/13/2023 2:03 PM, John Dunlop wrote:
> Tak To:
>> On 3/13/2023 9:42 AM, John Dunlop wrote:
>
> (Thunderbird)
>
>>> Because it lacks features that stand-alone newsreaders tend to have. For
>>> example, in this group, muting quoted text prevents your space bar from
>>> wearing out (and preserves your sanity). But you need an add-on for that
>>> in Thunderbird. More sophisticated newsreaders (e.g., Pan) provide that
>>> functionality out-of-the-box.
>>
>> Is "muting quoted text" same as greying it out?
>
> The extension I use gives you the option of hiding ("collapsing") the
> quoted text completely or leaving a few lines visible at the bottom. It
> also allows you to collapse or expand individual levels of quotes.
I see. Thanks.
I don't find this feature particular useful because I can scroll
fast enough with the mouse wheel[1]. When I reply, I tend to
trim aggressively and often tidy up quoted text compulsively.
>> What does the space bar do in this context in TB?
>
> Moves the text in the message pane up one ... eh, pane-ful. After you
> reach the bottom, it moves you to the next unread message.
I didn't know that. I use the mouse wheel for scrolling
and prefer manually selecting the next message to read.
In general, I use the keyboard only when I have to enter text. In
most other cases I use the mouse to click or select, and to bring
out the context menus[1].
I understand that there are "keyboardist", who, unlike us
"mousists", prefer keeping their hands on the keyboard and
using keyboard short-cuts and key combinations instead.
Many programs started in the Unix environment were designed
to accommodate "keyboardist" at the expenses of "mousists",
who I think are the majority in the Windows environment.
GIMP is an example.
On smart phones, the lack of context menus often drives me
nuts.
[1] In Windows. I don't know how Apple users live, or can
live.
--
Tak
----------------------------------------------------------------+-----
Tak To ta...@alum.mit.eduxx
--------------------------------------------------------------------^^
[taode takto ~{LU5B~}] NB: trim the xx to get my real email addr
> Tak To:
>> On 3/13/2023 9:42 AM, John Dunlop wrote:
>
> (Thunderbird)
>
>>> Because it lacks features that stand-alone newsreaders tend to have. For
>>> example, in this group, muting quoted text prevents your space bar from
>>> wearing out (and preserves your sanity). But you need an add-on for that
>>> in Thunderbird. More sophisticated newsreaders (e.g., Pan) provide that
>>> functionality out-of-the-box.
>>
>> Is "muting quoted text" same as greying it out?
>
> The extension I use gives you the option of hiding ("collapsing") the
> quoted text completely or leaving a few lines visible at the bottom. It
> also allows you to collapse or expand individual levels of quotes.
I see. Thanks.
I don't find this feature particular useful because I can scroll
fast enough with the mouse wheel[1]. When I reply, I tend to
trim aggressively and often tidy up quoted text compulsively.
>> What does the space bar do in this context in TB?
>
> Moves the text in the message pane up one ... eh, pane-ful. After you
> reach the bottom, it moves you to the next unread message.
I didn't know that. I use the mouse wheel for scrolling
and prefer manually selecting the next message to read.
In general, I use the keyboard only when I have to enter text. In
most other cases I use the mouse to click or select, and to bring
out the context menus[1].
I understand that there are "keyboardist", who, unlike us
"mousists", prefer keeping their hands on the keyboard and
using keyboard short-cuts and key combinations instead.
Many programs started in the Unix environment were designed
to accommodate "keyboardist" at the expenses of "mousists",
who I think are the majority in the Windows environment.
GIMP is an example.
On smart phones, the lack of context menus often drives me
nuts.
[1] In Windows. I don't know how Apple users live, or can
live.
--
Tak
----------------------------------------------------------------+-----
Tak To ta...@alum.mit.eduxx
--------------------------------------------------------------------^^
[taode takto ~{LU5B~}] NB: trim the xx to get my real email addr
John Dunlop
Mar 15, 2023, 1:59:01 PM3/15/23
to
Tak To:
> I didn't know that. I use the mouse wheel for scrolling
> and prefer manually selecting the next message to read.
>
> In general, I use the keyboard only when I have to enter text. In
> most other cases I use the mouse to click or select, and to bring
> out the context menus[1].
>
> I understand that there are "keyboardist", who, unlike us
> "mousists", prefer keeping their hands on the keyboard and
> using keyboard short-cuts and key combinations instead.
>
> Many programs started in the Unix environment were designed
> to accommodate "keyboardist" at the expenses of "mousists",
> who I think are the majority in the Windows environment.
> GIMP is an example.
I use a laptop with a trackpad but no mouse. For Usenet, my fingers
usually sit on T (next thread), N (next unread message), and the space
bar (see above). I haven't used a mouse in years. My lack of familiarity
with them is rivalled only by Scotty's:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QpWhugUmV5U
> On smart phones, the lack of context menus often drives me
> nuts.
I try to resist the push towards apps (banks, PayPal, etc.). They give a
more "walled garden" feeling than the Web, and the app designers often
seem to have spent little time using the apps themselves. I do read the
paper on the phone, though. If the publisher agrees to my consultation
fee, I'll tell them what they're doing wrong.
--
John
> On 3/13/2023 2:03 PM, John Dunlop wrote:
>> Tak To:
...
>> Tak To:
>>> What does the space bar do in this context in TB?
>>
>> Moves the text in the message pane up one ... eh, pane-ful. After you
>> reach the bottom, it moves you to the next unread message.
(I meant "body pane", but you got the message.)
>>
>> Moves the text in the message pane up one ... eh, pane-ful. After you
>> reach the bottom, it moves you to the next unread message.
> I didn't know that. I use the mouse wheel for scrolling
> and prefer manually selecting the next message to read.
>
> In general, I use the keyboard only when I have to enter text. In
> most other cases I use the mouse to click or select, and to bring
> out the context menus[1].
>
> I understand that there are "keyboardist", who, unlike us
> "mousists", prefer keeping their hands on the keyboard and
> using keyboard short-cuts and key combinations instead.
>
> Many programs started in the Unix environment were designed
> to accommodate "keyboardist" at the expenses of "mousists",
> who I think are the majority in the Windows environment.
> GIMP is an example.
usually sit on T (next thread), N (next unread message), and the space
bar (see above). I haven't used a mouse in years. My lack of familiarity
with them is rivalled only by Scotty's:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QpWhugUmV5U
> On smart phones, the lack of context menus often drives me
> nuts.
more "walled garden" feeling than the Web, and the app designers often
seem to have spent little time using the apps themselves. I do read the
paper on the phone, though. If the publisher agrees to my consultation
fee, I'll tell them what they're doing wrong.
--
John
Tak To
Mar 15, 2023, 3:25:10 PM3/15/23
to
On 3/13/2023 4:41 PM, Bertel Lund Hansen wrote:
> Den 13.03.2023 kl. 18.29 skrev Tak To:
>
>>> It has quite strange function for going back and forth in the messages
>>> in the sequence that I read them in. It works sometimes, and other times
>>> not. There are messages that I could not read because they had
>>> diappeared from my window, and the back-and-forth didn't find them.
>>
>> If a message disappears from the listing window, 9 times out
>> of 10 it is because it has been marked as read.
>
> Not here. Messages are marked as read the second they are displayed.
I am not sure what you are talking about. I was referring to
the listing window.
Let's say your /Message/Thread choice is "Unread". By default
only unread messages are listed in the window. When you click
a message, it will instantly becomes "read" as you noted, but
it will still be visible in the listing window -- until the
listing window refreshes, which can occur under a variety
of circumstances.
>> There are two
>> stages of filtering in TB, one is at the View-Threads-
>> {All,Unread...} level, the other at the Tag/Quick Filter
>> level. The confusing thing is that a read message won't
>> disappear immediately, but will after any event that updates
>> the display.
>
> Messages that are displayed here, never disappear.
See above.
> The filters I use,
> are only active while fetching.
Uh? The "Quick Filter" settings are for displaying the list
in the listing window. They do not affect fetching.
>> This brings me to my biggest gripe about TB -- there is no
>> "undo" for marking a message as read (either explicitly
>> or implicitly).
>
> Try to mark (or display) a message and then press M. You can mark as
> many as you like.
When you "current message" (as high-lighted in the listing
window) disappears altogether from the listing window
(and the content window showing empty), you do not
have a way to "unread" it.
>>> I have learnt to live with Thunderbird, but I miss Agent - the best
>>> newsreader I have tried. I have mentioned before the unique feature with
>>> filters that can be set to disappear after a specific period, and better
>>> still: after a specific period with no activity.
>>>
>>> I don't understand that other newsreaders haven't copied it.
>>
>> Users have a different usage pattern.
>
> They can leave the option unused if they don't like it.
What I meant was, the designers of other newsreaders do not
perceive that feature as a high priority, because they have
a different set of usage patterns in mind.
>> Features in TB that I would like to see
>>
>> (1) A sophisticated MBOX file repairing tool. There are a number
>> of garbled MBOX files on my disk. I don't know what went wrong,
>> and I could not see anything obvious in a text editor. However,
>> TB hangs while trying to create the index files for them.
>
> I haven't had the problem, but I would roll out my backup if something
> like that happened to me.
How often do you back the mbox files up? It is not a very practical
solution.
When that occurred in the past, I unsubscribed from the group, copied
the mbox file to another place, and resubscribed again. I meant to
write a program to help me parse the garbled mbox file, but never got
around to doing it.
> Den 13.03.2023 kl. 18.29 skrev Tak To:
>
>>> It has quite strange function for going back and forth in the messages
>>> in the sequence that I read them in. It works sometimes, and other times
>>> not. There are messages that I could not read because they had
>>> diappeared from my window, and the back-and-forth didn't find them.
>>
>> If a message disappears from the listing window, 9 times out
>> of 10 it is because it has been marked as read.
>
> Not here. Messages are marked as read the second they are displayed.
I am not sure what you are talking about. I was referring to
the listing window.
Let's say your /Message/Thread choice is "Unread". By default
only unread messages are listed in the window. When you click
a message, it will instantly becomes "read" as you noted, but
it will still be visible in the listing window -- until the
listing window refreshes, which can occur under a variety
of circumstances.
>> There are two
>> stages of filtering in TB, one is at the View-Threads-
>> {All,Unread...} level, the other at the Tag/Quick Filter
>> level. The confusing thing is that a read message won't
>> disappear immediately, but will after any event that updates
>> the display.
>
> Messages that are displayed here, never disappear.
See above.
> The filters I use,
> are only active while fetching.
Uh? The "Quick Filter" settings are for displaying the list
in the listing window. They do not affect fetching.
>> This brings me to my biggest gripe about TB -- there is no
>> "undo" for marking a message as read (either explicitly
>> or implicitly).
>
> Try to mark (or display) a message and then press M. You can mark as
> many as you like.
When you "current message" (as high-lighted in the listing
window) disappears altogether from the listing window
(and the content window showing empty), you do not
have a way to "unread" it.
>>> I have learnt to live with Thunderbird, but I miss Agent - the best
>>> newsreader I have tried. I have mentioned before the unique feature with
>>> filters that can be set to disappear after a specific period, and better
>>> still: after a specific period with no activity.
>>>
>>> I don't understand that other newsreaders haven't copied it.
>>
>> Users have a different usage pattern.
>
> They can leave the option unused if they don't like it.
What I meant was, the designers of other newsreaders do not
perceive that feature as a high priority, because they have
a different set of usage patterns in mind.
>> Features in TB that I would like to see
>>
>> (1) A sophisticated MBOX file repairing tool. There are a number
>> of garbled MBOX files on my disk. I don't know what went wrong,
>> and I could not see anything obvious in a text editor. However,
>> TB hangs while trying to create the index files for them.
>
> I haven't had the problem, but I would roll out my backup if something
> like that happened to me.
How often do you back the mbox files up? It is not a very practical
solution.
When that occurred in the past, I unsubscribed from the group, copied
the mbox file to another place, and resubscribed again. I meant to
write a program to help me parse the garbled mbox file, but never got
around to doing it.
Ken Blake
Mar 15, 2023, 4:42:49 PM3/15/23
to
just curious.
Ken Blake
Mar 15, 2023, 4:44:35 PM3/15/23
to
On Wed, 15 Mar 2023 17:58:56 +0000, John Dunlop
<dunlo...@ymail.com> wrote:
>Tak To:
>> On 3/13/2023 2:03 PM, John Dunlop wrote:
>>> Tak To:
>...
>>>> What does the space bar do in this context in TB?
>>>
>>> Moves the text in the message pane up one ... eh, pane-ful. After you
>>> reach the bottom, it moves you to the next unread message.
>
>(I meant "body pane", but you got the message.)
Better than getting the pain.
<dunlo...@ymail.com> wrote:
>Tak To:
>> On 3/13/2023 2:03 PM, John Dunlop wrote:
>>> Tak To:
>...
>>>> What does the space bar do in this context in TB?
>>>
>>> Moves the text in the message pane up one ... eh, pane-ful. After you
>>> reach the bottom, it moves you to the next unread message.
>
>(I meant "body pane", but you got the message.)
Al in Dallas
Mar 15, 2023, 5:01:50 PM3/15/23
to
On Monday, March 13, 2023 at 3:09:34 PM UTC-5, TonyCooper wrote:
> On Mon, 13 Mar 2023 20:01:24 +0000, "Kerr-Mudd, John"
> <ad...@127.0.0.1> wrote:
>
> >On Mon, 13 Mar 2023 13:39:17 -0400
> >Tak To <ta...@alum.mit.eduxx> wrote:
> >
> >> On 3/13/2023 10:20 AM, Bertel Lund Hansen wrote:
> >> > Den 13.03.2023 kl. 13.02 skrev John Dunlop:
> >> >
> >> >> Changing the subject line to reflect the content of the subthread would
> >> >> be helpful, but not many people do that.
> >> >
> >> > It would make no difference for my view.
> >>
> >> I appreciate people changing the subject lines appropriately.
> >> and do make use of the fact.
> >>
> >> At times I change the subject lines myself, but have no idea if the
> >> changes make any difference to anyone.
> >>
> >I got told off for doing it in here, once upon a time.
> Older RRs are thinking of Bob Cunningham when reading this.
Who are you calling "older"?
> On Mon, 13 Mar 2023 20:01:24 +0000, "Kerr-Mudd, John"
> <ad...@127.0.0.1> wrote:
>
> >On Mon, 13 Mar 2023 13:39:17 -0400
> >Tak To <ta...@alum.mit.eduxx> wrote:
> >
> >> On 3/13/2023 10:20 AM, Bertel Lund Hansen wrote:
> >> > Den 13.03.2023 kl. 13.02 skrev John Dunlop:
> >> >
> >> >> Changing the subject line to reflect the content of the subthread would
> >> >> be helpful, but not many people do that.
> >> >
> >> > It would make no difference for my view.
> >>
> >> I appreciate people changing the subject lines appropriately.
> >> and do make use of the fact.
> >>
> >> At times I change the subject lines myself, but have no idea if the
> >> changes make any difference to anyone.
> >>
> >I got told off for doing it in here, once upon a time.
> Older RRs are thinking of Bob Cunningham when reading this.
Sam Plusnet
Mar 15, 2023, 6:54:33 PM3/15/23
to
I have only ever 'ripped' one CD.
The rest have been acquired from here and there.
--
Sam Plusnet
Peter Moylan
Mar 15, 2023, 10:53:49 PM3/15/23
to
On 16/03/23 03:49, Tak To wrote:
> In general, I use the keyboard only when I have to enter text. In
> most other cases I use the mouse to click or select, and to bring
> out the context menus[1].
>
> I understand that there are "keyboardist", who, unlike us
> "mousists", prefer keeping their hands on the keyboard and using
> keyboard short-cuts and key combinations instead.
I use both the keyboard and the mouse, but with a strong preference for
> In general, I use the keyboard only when I have to enter text. In
> most other cases I use the mouse to click or select, and to bring
> out the context menus[1].
>
> I understand that there are "keyboardist", who, unlike us
> "mousists", prefer keeping their hands on the keyboard and using
> keyboard short-cuts and key combinations instead.
the keyboard. In particular, most of my newsreading is done with the
space bar, with occasional use of the '[' and ']' to move backwards and
forwards through the thread tree.
I'm so strong a keyboardist that when I wrote a GUI calculator program
http://www.pmoylan.org/pages/os2/keycalc.html
I didn't include a numeric keypad in the interface, on the grounds that
it's silly to mouse-click on keys when you already have a proper keyboard.
> Many programs started in the Unix environment were designed to
> accommodate "keyboardist" at the expenses of "mousists", who I think
> are the majority in the Windows environment. GIMP is an example.
>
> On smart phones, the lack of context menus often drives me nuts.
>
> [1] In Windows. I don't know how Apple users live, or can live.
workstation, mostly for desktop publishing. In that, the left mouse
button marked the beginning of a selection, the right mouse button
marked the end of a selection, and the middle button brought up the
context menus. That made a lot of sense to me.
When Apple brought out the Macintosh, it tried to save money by using a
single-button mouse. That was foolish, because it forced users to learn
the distinctions between single-click, double-click, and triple-click.
Originally Windows copied the Mac idea, although to its credit it didn't
copy triple-click. That led to the silly situation where most Windows
users had two-button or three-button mice, but with no good use for the
extra buttons except for uses invented by application developers. In the
longer term Microsoft did copy the OS/2 idea of using the right mouse
button for the context menus. (And, in the long run, all operating
systems put scroll wheels to good use.)
These days I use OS/2 for most of my work, but I've modified it so that
I can either left-click or right-click on the desktop background.
Right-click brings up the usual context menu, where I can do things like
start a command prompt or create a new file or folder. But left-click
brings up a different menu, containing my most-used programs and
operations. That menu is configured by me, not by the system.
--
Peter Moylan Newcastle, NSW http://www.pmoylan.org
Bertel Lund Hansen
Mar 16, 2023, 4:09:49 AM3/16/23
to
Den 15.03.2023 kl. 17.49 skrev Tak To:
> I don't find this feature particular useful because I can scroll
> fast enough with the mouse wheel[1]. When I reply, I tend to
> trim aggressively and often tidy up quoted text compulsively.
That sounds like me. I need the complete quote because I scroll down
> I don't find this feature particular useful because I can scroll
> fast enough with the mouse wheel[1]. When I reply, I tend to
> trim aggressively and often tidy up quoted text compulsively.
through it considering what should be left and I delete the rest on the fly.
> I didn't know that. I use the mouse wheel for scrolling
> and prefer manually selecting the next message to read.
>
> In general, I use the keyboard only when I have to enter text. In
> most other cases I use the mouse to click or select, and to bring
> out the context menus[1].
navigation is done on the keyboard with N (next unread message).
> I understand that there are "keyboardist", who, unlike us
> "mousists", prefer keeping their hands on the keyboard and
> using keyboard short-cuts and key combinations instead.
> Many programs started in the Unix environment were designed
> to accommodate "keyboardist" at the expenses of "mousists",
> who I think are the majority in the Windows environment.
--
Bertel, Denmark
Bertel Lund Hansen
Mar 16, 2023, 4:17:38 AM3/16/23
to
Den 15.03.2023 kl. 20.25 skrev Tak To:
>> Not here. Messages are marked as read the second they are displayed.
>
> I am not sure what you are talking about. I was referring to
> the listing window.
My view is "Not ignored", so all the messages I read, are displayed
>> Not here. Messages are marked as read the second they are displayed.
>
> I am not sure what you are talking about. I was referring to
> the listing window.
permanently.
> When you "current message" (as high-lighted in the listing
> window) disappears altogether from the listing window
> (and the content window showing empty), you do not
> have a way to "unread" it.
>> I haven't had the problem, but I would roll out my backup if something
>> like that happened to me.
>
> How often do you back the mbox files up?
that I have produced myself. I always choose the option to store them on
my website. Once in a while I copy the whole thing to an external
harddisk. I have two of those and use them alternately.
> It is not a very practical solution.
am going to leave the computer. That's not impractical.
--
Bertel, Denmark
Bertel Lund Hansen
Mar 16, 2023, 4:19:17 AM3/16/23
to
Den 15.03.2023 kl. 23.54 skrev Sam Plusnet:
>> I haven't bothered ripping my CDs.
>
> I have around 330GB in my "Music" folder.
> I have only ever 'ripped' one CD.
> The rest have been acquired from here and there.
I have ripped all my cd's for two reasons: It is easier to play them on
>> I haven't bothered ripping my CDs.
>
> I have around 330GB in my "Music" folder.
> I have only ever 'ripped' one CD.
> The rest have been acquired from here and there.
the computer, and I have copied them to a harddisk that is linked to my
hifi-set.
--
Bertel, Denmark
lar3ryca
Mar 16, 2023, 1:13:01 PM3/16/23
to
On 2023-03-15 20:53, Peter Moylan wrote:
> On 16/03/23 03:49, Tak To wrote:
>
>> In general, I use the keyboard only when I have to enter text. In
>> most other cases I use the mouse to click or select, and to bring
>> out the context menus[1].
>>
>> I understand that there are "keyboardist", who, unlike us
>> "mousists", prefer keeping their hands on the keyboard and using
>> keyboard short-cuts and key combinations instead.
>
> I use both the keyboard and the mouse, but with a strong preference for
> the keyboard. In particular, most of my newsreading is done with the
> space bar, with occasional use of the '[' and ']' to move backwards and
> forwards through the thread tree.
>
> I'm so strong a keyboardist that when I wrote a GUI calculator program
> http://www.pmoylan.org/pages/os2/keycalc.html
> I didn't include a numeric keypad in the interface, on the grounds that
> it's silly to mouse-click on keys when you already have a proper keyboard.
Good on ya!
> On 16/03/23 03:49, Tak To wrote:
>
>> In general, I use the keyboard only when I have to enter text. In
>> most other cases I use the mouse to click or select, and to bring
>> out the context menus[1].
>>
>> I understand that there are "keyboardist", who, unlike us
>> "mousists", prefer keeping their hands on the keyboard and using
>> keyboard short-cuts and key combinations instead.
>
> I use both the keyboard and the mouse, but with a strong preference for
> the keyboard. In particular, most of my newsreading is done with the
> space bar, with occasional use of the '[' and ']' to move backwards and
> forwards through the thread tree.
>
> I'm so strong a keyboardist that when I wrote a GUI calculator program
> http://www.pmoylan.org/pages/os2/keycalc.html
> I didn't include a numeric keypad in the interface, on the grounds that
> it's silly to mouse-click on keys when you already have a proper keyboard.
>> Many programs started in the Unix environment were designed to
>> accommodate "keyboardist" at the expenses of "mousists", who I think
>> are the majority in the Windows environment. GIMP is an example.
>>
>> On smart phones, the lack of context menus often drives me nuts.
>>
>> [1] In Windows. I don't know how Apple users live, or can live.
>
> My first serious use of a mouse was when I was using a Unix (not Linux)
> workstation, mostly for desktop publishing. In that, the left mouse
> button marked the beginning of a selection, the right mouse button
> marked the end of a selection, and the middle button brought up the
> context menus. That made a lot of sense to me.
>
> When Apple brought out the Macintosh, it tried to save money by using a
> single-button mouse.
insistence on using the mouse for things that are more easily done by a
single keystroke in a particular application.
The Unix guy said "The keyboard, in this case, can be considered a
104-button mouse".
--
I got tired of being accused of having no sense of direction,
so I packed up my things and right.
Tak To
Mar 16, 2023, 4:24:34 PM3/16/23
to
On 3/15/2023 10:53 PM, Peter Moylan wrote:
> On 16/03/23 03:49, Tak To wrote:
>
>> In general, I use the keyboard only when I have to enter text. In
>> most other cases I use the mouse to click or select, and to bring
>> out the context menus[1].
>>
>> I understand that there are "keyboardist", who, unlike us
>> "mousists", prefer keeping their hands on the keyboard and using
>> keyboard short-cuts and key combinations instead.
>
> I use both the keyboard and the mouse, but with a strong preference for
> the keyboard. In particular, most of my newsreading is done with the
> space bar, with occasional use of the '[' and ']' to move backwards and
> forwards through the thread tree.
>
> I'm so strong a keyboardist that when I wrote a GUI calculator program
> http://www.pmoylan.org/pages/os2/keycalc.html
> I didn't include a numeric keypad in the interface, on the grounds that
> it's silly to mouse-click on keys when you already have a proper keyboard.
These days I just type an expression into Google.
> On 16/03/23 03:49, Tak To wrote:
>
>> In general, I use the keyboard only when I have to enter text. In
>> most other cases I use the mouse to click or select, and to bring
>> out the context menus[1].
>>
>> I understand that there are "keyboardist", who, unlike us
>> "mousists", prefer keeping their hands on the keyboard and using
>> keyboard short-cuts and key combinations instead.
>
> I use both the keyboard and the mouse, but with a strong preference for
> the keyboard. In particular, most of my newsreading is done with the
> space bar, with occasional use of the '[' and ']' to move backwards and
> forwards through the thread tree.
>
> I'm so strong a keyboardist that when I wrote a GUI calculator program
> http://www.pmoylan.org/pages/os2/keycalc.html
> I didn't include a numeric keypad in the interface, on the grounds that
> it's silly to mouse-click on keys when you already have a proper keyboard.
>> Many programs started in the Unix environment were designed to
>> accommodate "keyboardist" at the expenses of "mousists", who I think
>> are the majority in the Windows environment. GIMP is an example.
>>
>> On smart phones, the lack of context menus often drives me nuts.
>>
>> [1] In Windows. I don't know how Apple users live, or can live.
>
> My first serious use of a mouse was when I was using a Unix (not Linux)
> workstation, mostly for desktop publishing. In that, the left mouse
> button marked the beginning of a selection, the right mouse button
> marked the end of a selection, and the middle button brought up the
> context menus. That made a lot of sense to me.
is perfectly natural to native speakers but makes no sense
to outsiders.
> When Apple brought out the Macintosh, it tried to save money by using a
> single-button mouse. That was foolish, because it forced users to learn
> the distinctions between single-click, double-click, and triple-click.
> Originally Windows copied the Mac idea,
single button mouse.
> although to its credit it didn't
> copy triple-click.
arise naturally regardless of the number of buttons available
and there is no need to attribute it to Apple or anyone else.
There are two basic semantics associated a click - click to act
and click to select. For example, a command button has act-
semantics, and a selection box has select-semantics. However,
there are screen objects for which both semantics are plausible,
so double-click and click-and-hold are used to invoke the
secondary semantics (if exists).
Why not use two separate keys? Well, one key is easier to master
and less error prone. It is also fail-safe in case there is no
secondary semantics.
> That led to the silly situation where most Windows
> users had two-button or three-button mice, but with no good use for the
> extra buttons except for uses invented by application developers.
from day one or not providing a standard mouse driver until
it has figured out everything?
> In the
> longer term Microsoft did copy the OS/2 idea of using the right mouse
> button for the context menus.
> (And, in the long run, all operating
> systems put scroll wheels to good use.)
> These days I use OS/2 for most of my work, but I've modified it so that
> I can either left-click or right-click on the desktop background.
> Right-click brings up the usual context menu, where I can do things like
> start a command prompt or create a new file or folder. But left-click
> brings up a different menu, containing my most-used programs and
> operations. That menu is configured by me, not by the system.
Tak To
Mar 16, 2023, 4:32:26 PM3/16/23
to
trackpadists until people start using very large displays
and multiple displays.
>> On smart phones, the lack of context menus often drives me
>> nuts.
>
> I try to resist the push towards apps (banks, PayPal, etc.). They give a
> more "walled garden" feeling than the Web, and the app designers often
> seem to have spent little time using the apps themselves. I do read the
> paper on the phone, though. If the publisher agrees to my consultation
> fee, I'll tell them what they're doing wrong.
afford much.
Tak To
Mar 16, 2023, 4:35:56 PM3/16/23
to
lar3ryca
Mar 16, 2023, 5:23:56 PM3/16/23
to
On 2023-03-16 14:35, Tak To wrote:
> On 3/16/2023 1:12 PM, lar3ryca wrote:
>> On 2023-03-15 20:53, Peter Moylan wrote:
>>
>> I recall an argument between a Unix user and a Mac use, over the Mac's
>> insistence on using the mouse for things that are more easily done by a
>> single keystroke in a particular application.
>>
>> The Unix guy said "The keyboard, in this case, can be considered a
>> 104-button mouse".
>
> What application is that, and on what platform?
Not sure exactly, but it was an application in which the only way to
> On 3/16/2023 1:12 PM, lar3ryca wrote:
>> On 2023-03-15 20:53, Peter Moylan wrote:
>>
>> I recall an argument between a Unix user and a Mac use, over the Mac's
>> insistence on using the mouse for things that are more easily done by a
>> single keystroke in a particular application.
>>
>> The Unix guy said "The keyboard, in this case, can be considered a
>> 104-button mouse".
>
> What application is that, and on what platform?
bring up a ruler was to use the mouse.
--
English is difficult.
It can be understood through tough, thorough thought, though.
Peter Moylan
Mar 16, 2023, 8:50:00 PM3/16/23
to
On 17/03/23 07:32, Tak To wrote:
> On 3/15/2023 1:58 PM, John Dunlop wrote:
>> I try to resist the push towards apps (banks, PayPal, etc.). They
>> give a more "walled garden" feeling than the Web, and the app
>> designers often seem to have spent little time using the apps
>> themselves. I do read the paper on the phone, though. If the
>> publisher agrees to my consultation fee, I'll tell them what
>> they're doing wrong.
>
> I would pay so of them to listen to me. Alas, I can't afford much.
When my bank introduced a new internet banking interface, it asked for
> On 3/15/2023 1:58 PM, John Dunlop wrote:
>> I try to resist the push towards apps (banks, PayPal, etc.). They
>> give a more "walled garden" feeling than the Web, and the app
>> designers often seem to have spent little time using the apps
>> themselves. I do read the paper on the phone, though. If the
>> publisher agrees to my consultation fee, I'll tell them what
>> they're doing wrong.
>
> I would pay so of them to listen to me. Alas, I can't afford much.
feedback. I responded with a list of design faults. All of my
suggestions were ignored.
I now keep a magnifying glass on my desk, specifically for internet banking.
More recently I wrote to the people who produce an e-mail newsletter
called "The Senior", suggesting inter alia that people old enough to
subscribe to it probably have trouble reading light-grey-on-white text.
That time I got a reply, saying that my suggestions would be taken on
board. But they weren't. That particular colour combination seems to be
favoured for very small font sizes, so I suppose there's a rule about it
in the design rules for people who produce HTML text.
Peter Moylan
Mar 16, 2023, 9:13:19 PM3/16/23
to
On 17/03/23 07:24, Tak To wrote:
> On 3/15/2023 10:53 PM, Peter Moylan wrote:
>> I'm so strong a keyboardist that when I wrote a GUI calculator program
>> http://www.pmoylan.org/pages/os2/keycalc.html
>> I didn't include a numeric keypad in the interface, on the grounds that
>> it's silly to mouse-click on keys when you already have a proper keyboard.
>
> These days I just type an expression into Google.
I see that the Google calculator can now handle trigonometric functions,
> On 3/15/2023 10:53 PM, Peter Moylan wrote:
>> I'm so strong a keyboardist that when I wrote a GUI calculator program
>> http://www.pmoylan.org/pages/os2/keycalc.html
>> I didn't include a numeric keypad in the interface, on the grounds that
>> it's silly to mouse-click on keys when you already have a proper keyboard.
>
> These days I just type an expression into Google.
and can even do some things with complex numbers. But I don't see any
way of switching number bases. Most importantly, it can't do RPN.
> IMHO, double-click and other actions like click-and-hold would
> arise naturally regardless of the number of buttons available
> and there is no need to attribute it to Apple or anyone else.
>
> There are two basic semantics associated a click - click to act
> and click to select. For example, a command button has act-
> semantics, and a selection box has select-semantics. However,
> there are screen objects for which both semantics are plausible,
> so double-click and click-and-hold are used to invoke the
> secondary semantics (if exists).
double-click. Clicking on an unselected object selects it. Clicking on a
selected object performs the operation appropriate to that object. That
sounds like double-click, but there's a difference: the time between the
two clicks is not important.
>> In the
>> longer term Microsoft did copy the OS/2 idea of using the right mouse
>> button for the context menus.
>
> OS/2 before 3.0 was partly written by MS.
though.
>> These days I use OS/2 for most of my work, but I've modified it so that
>> I can either left-click or right-click on the desktop background.
>> Right-click brings up the usual context menu, where I can do things like
>> start a command prompt or create a new file or folder. But left-click
>> brings up a different menu, containing my most-used programs and
>> operations. That menu is configured by me, not by the system.
>
> You are sui generis.
something similar to the Windows "start" button. (But taking a lot less
screen area, of course.) Someone pointed me to a desktop enhancement
that included the left-click menu, and I came to find it very useful.
Its most important feature is that it includes only the programs and
operations that I want on the menu, not everything in the system.
Athel Cornish-Bowden
Mar 17, 2023, 3:35:36 AM3/17/23
to
On 2023-03-16 20:24:28 +0000, Tak To said:
>
> OS/2 before 3.0 was partly written by MS.
On first reading I thought you had written "OS/2 before 3.0 was partly
>
> OS/2 before 3.0 was partly written by MS.
written by Me." I was impressed.
--
Athel -- French and British, living in Marseilles for 36 years; mainly
in England until 1987.
Bertel Lund Hansen
Mar 17, 2023, 4:56:28 AM3/17/23
to
Den 17.03.2023 kl. 01.49 skrev Peter Moylan:
> When my bank introduced a new internet banking interface, it asked for
> feedback. I responded with a list of design faults. All of my
> suggestions were ignored.
I did precisely that and got the same result. The worst thing was that
> When my bank introduced a new internet banking interface, it asked for
> feedback. I responded with a list of design faults. All of my
> suggestions were ignored.
the previous design was very good. There are thing now that I need, that
I no longer can do.
--
Bertel, Denmark
Tak To
Mar 17, 2023, 11:31:24 AM3/17/23
to
On 3/16/2023 5:23 PM, lar3ryca wrote:
> On 2023-03-16 14:35, Tak To wrote:
>> On 3/16/2023 1:12 PM, lar3ryca wrote:
>>> On 2023-03-15 20:53, Peter Moylan wrote:
>>>
>>> I recall an argument between a Unix user and a Mac use, over the Mac's
>>> insistence on using the mouse for things that are more easily done by a
>>> single keystroke in a particular application.
>>>
>>> The Unix guy said "The keyboard, in this case, can be considered a
>>> 104-button mouse".
>>
>> What application is that, and on what platform?
>
> Not sure exactly, but it was an application in which the only way to
> bring up a ruler was to use the mouse.
As a mousist I would put the ruler option in a context menu
> On 2023-03-16 14:35, Tak To wrote:
>> On 3/16/2023 1:12 PM, lar3ryca wrote:
>>> On 2023-03-15 20:53, Peter Moylan wrote:
>>>
>>> I recall an argument between a Unix user and a Mac use, over the Mac's
>>> insistence on using the mouse for things that are more easily done by a
>>> single keystroke in a particular application.
>>>
>>> The Unix guy said "The keyboard, in this case, can be considered a
>>> 104-button mouse".
>>
>> What application is that, and on what platform?
>
> Not sure exactly, but it was an application in which the only way to
> bring up a ruler was to use the mouse.
(or pop-up box[1] in general) with the frame object.
Sophisticated programs usually allow adding keyboard shortcuts
to buttons (act-semantic objects), as well as adding buttons
to menus.
However, there is usually no way to use a keyboard shortcut to
call up a particular context menu.
[1] "Control" in MS parlance.
TonyCooper
Mar 17, 2023, 11:55:46 AM3/17/23
to
banking interface for both banks is perfect. I'm posting this comment
only to show that not all bank interfaces present a problem to the
user.
The only complaint I have with the banks is that every time one of us
uses one of the branches, the banks email us with a follow-up "How did
we do?" questionnaire. If I don't respond, they re-email us.
Banks are not alone in this. Doctor offices do it, and many stores do
it. I don't like my inbox cluttered with their requests for
back-patting.
--
Tony Cooper - Orlando,Florida
Tak To
Mar 17, 2023, 12:15:49 PM3/17/23
to
On 3/16/2023 9:13 PM, Peter Moylan wrote:
> On 17/03/23 07:24, Tak To wrote:
>> On 3/15/2023 10:53 PM, Peter Moylan wrote:
>
>>> I'm so strong a keyboardist that when I wrote a GUI calculator program
>>> http://www.pmoylan.org/pages/os2/keycalc.html
>>> I didn't include a numeric keypad in the interface, on the grounds that
>>> it's silly to mouse-click on keys when you already have a proper keyboard.
>>
>> These days I just type an expression into Google.
>
> I see that the Google calculator can now handle trigonometric functions,
> and can even do some things with complex numbers. But I don't see any
> way of switching number bases. Most importantly, it can't do RPN.
I never developed the knack.
> On 17/03/23 07:24, Tak To wrote:
>> On 3/15/2023 10:53 PM, Peter Moylan wrote:
>
>>> I'm so strong a keyboardist that when I wrote a GUI calculator program
>>> http://www.pmoylan.org/pages/os2/keycalc.html
>>> I didn't include a numeric keypad in the interface, on the grounds that
>>> it's silly to mouse-click on keys when you already have a proper keyboard.
>>
>> These days I just type an expression into Google.
>
> I see that the Google calculator can now handle trigonometric functions,
> and can even do some things with complex numbers. But I don't see any
> way of switching number bases. Most importantly, it can't do RPN.
>> IMHO, double-click and other actions like click-and-hold would
>> arise naturally regardless of the number of buttons available
>> and there is no need to attribute it to Apple or anyone else.
>>
>> There are two basic semantics associated a click - click to act
>> and click to select. For example, a command button has act-
>> semantics, and a selection box has select-semantics. However,
>> there are screen objects for which both semantics are plausible,
>> so double-click and click-and-hold are used to invoke the
>> secondary semantics (if exists).
>
> In some of my software I use "click twice" where others would use
> double-click. Clicking on an unselected object selects it. Clicking on a
> selected object performs the operation appropriate to that object. That
> sounds like double-click, but there's a difference: the time between the
> two clicks is not important.
a) a single event sent to one screen object;
b) two events sent to the same object; or
c) two events sent to two different objects?
If (a) or (b), how can that be distinguished from a single click?
Is there a time-out mechanism?
----- -----
>>> In the
>>> longer term Microsoft did copy the OS/2 idea of using the right mouse
>>> button for the context menus.
>>
>> OS/2 before 3.0 was partly written by MS.
>
> I don't think MS had anything to do with the object-oriented desktop,
> though.
----- -----
>>> These days I use OS/2 for most of my work, but I've modified it so that
>>> I can either left-click or right-click on the desktop background.
>>> Right-click brings up the usual context menu, where I can do things like
>>> start a command prompt or create a new file or folder. But left-click
>>> brings up a different menu, containing my most-used programs and
>>> operations. That menu is configured by me, not by the system.
>>
>> You are sui generis.
>
> In some other forum I happened to mention that I would appreciate
> something similar to the Windows "start" button. (But taking a lot less
> screen area, of course.)
> Someone pointed me to a desktop enhancement
> that included the left-click menu, and I came to find it very useful.
> Its most important feature is that it includes only the programs and
> operations that I want on the menu, not everything in the system.
In Windows there is a context menu for the empty space in
the desk top, but that menu is not customizable. Each icon
on the desktop is treated like a file and have the associated
context menu for files. There is a separate context menu for
the task bar.
OTOH, the Start Menu (brought up by the "Start" button) is
very customizable.
For Windows 10, there is a common add-on so that the "Start"
button would bring up (a version of) the "Classical" Start Menu
found in earlier Windows instead of the new one.
lar3ryca
Mar 17, 2023, 12:16:01 PM3/17/23
to
instead of being able to read about 20 entries in the account sewtails,
they have spread them vertically, and I can see only 5. Idiots making
changes for the sake of change.
--
If a tree falls in the forest and no one hears it,
I hope it lands on a philosophy professor.
— Jon Stewart
Bertel Lund Hansen
Mar 17, 2023, 12:28:49 PM3/17/23
to
Den 17.03.2023 kl. 16.55 skrev TonyCooper:
> The only complaint I have with the banks is that every time one of us
> uses one of the branches, the banks email us with a follow-up "How did
> we do?" questionnaire. If I don't respond, they re-email us.
>
> Banks are not alone in this. Doctor offices do it, and many stores do
> it. I don't like my inbox cluttered with their requests for
> back-patting.
That behaviour is the consequence of the webpages where users can give
> The only complaint I have with the banks is that every time one of us
> uses one of the branches, the banks email us with a follow-up "How did
> we do?" questionnaire. If I don't respond, they re-email us.
>
> Banks are not alone in this. Doctor offices do it, and many stores do
> it. I don't like my inbox cluttered with their requests for
> back-patting.
their evaluation of the companies. If they don't get enough "likes" this
way, they get no customers.
I also find it annoying and never respond, among other things because I
don't trust the Danish webpage. Some usenetters have told me that their
negative reports have been deleted.
--
Bertel, Denmark
Bertel Lund Hansen
Mar 17, 2023, 12:31:46 PM3/17/23
to
Den 17.03.2023 kl. 17.15 skrev lar3ryca:
> My bank recently change their web site. The worst part of it is that
> instead of being able to read about 20 entries in the account sewtails,
> they have spread them vertically, and I can see only 5. Idiots making
> changes for the sake of change.
Same here. The previous design used the standard font that the user had
> My bank recently change their web site. The worst part of it is that
> instead of being able to read about 20 entries in the account sewtails,
> they have spread them vertically, and I can see only 5. Idiots making
> changes for the sake of change.
set up in the browser. Now they use a very large font which results in
less information at the time on the screen.
--
Bertel, Denmark
Tak To
Mar 17, 2023, 12:36:35 PM3/17/23
to
follows.
My ISP is Comcast (aka Xfinity). My main email address is with
them and I use a browser to access their web-based email
interface.
Comcast has an online forum with many sub-forums, some of which
are attended occasionally by Comcast employees, strictly as
observers. A few volunteers act as moderators and providers
of quick answers.
I once complained on the forum that they had ads in their email
interface. I pointed out that we were already paying them fees
and should not be subjected to ads.
To my surprise I got a response from a Comcast employee. He
(IIRC) said mine was the kind of suggestions that Comcast was
hoping to get.
Not too long afterwards, they made a change to the email
interface. It still has ads, but there is now a button to
close the ad pane. And no, one cannot set one's preference
so that the ad pane is closed by default.
Sam Plusnet
Mar 17, 2023, 3:08:56 PM3/17/23
to
desktop/laptop people.
--
Sam Plusnet
Sam Plusnet
Mar 17, 2023, 3:12:09 PM3/17/23
to
On 17-Mar-23 15:55, TonyCooper wrote:
> The only complaint I have with the banks is that every time one of us
> uses one of the branches, the banks email us with a follow-up "How did
> we do?" questionnaire. If I don't respond, they re-email us.
I ignore those because the one thing they do _not_ want to know is
> The only complaint I have with the banks is that every time one of us
> uses one of the branches, the banks email us with a follow-up "How did
> we do?" questionnaire. If I don't respond, they re-email us.
your opinion on how well they did.
They want pre-scripted answers to a specific list of questions.
--
Sam Plusnet
lar3ryca
Mar 17, 2023, 3:46:18 PM3/17/23
to
--
The universe is made up of protons, neutrons, electrons and morons.
Mark Brader
Mar 17, 2023, 3:58:59 PM3/17/23
to
Tony Cooper:
> The design and readability of the banking interface for both banks
> is perfect. I'm posting this comment only to show that not all
> bank interfaces present a problem to the user.
Good to hear.
> The only complaint I have with the banks is that every time one of us
> uses one of the branches, the banks email us with a follow-up "How did
> we do?" questionnaire. If I don't respond, they re-email us.
>
> Banks are not alone in this. Doctor offices do it, and many stores do
> it...
Yeesh.
ObAUE: I would have said "medical offices", "doctors' offices", "doctor's
offices" (this one implying that there's only one doctor at each office),
or some term using "clinics"; but for me, "doctor office", with or without
an S, is right out.
--
Mark Brader | "I do not want to give the impression I spend all
Toronto | my time on the Internet, but in the right hands
m...@vex.net | it is a wondrous tool, and in the wrong hands
| it is an even better one." -- Cecil Adams
My text in this article is in the public domain.
> I use online banking for two banks.
I don't use it at all. Who needs it?
> The design and readability of the banking interface for both banks
> is perfect. I'm posting this comment only to show that not all
> bank interfaces present a problem to the user.
> The only complaint I have with the banks is that every time one of us
> uses one of the branches, the banks email us with a follow-up "How did
> we do?" questionnaire. If I don't respond, they re-email us.
>
> Banks are not alone in this. Doctor offices do it, and many stores do
Yeesh.
ObAUE: I would have said "medical offices", "doctors' offices", "doctor's
offices" (this one implying that there's only one doctor at each office),
or some term using "clinics"; but for me, "doctor office", with or without
an S, is right out.
--
Mark Brader | "I do not want to give the impression I spend all
Toronto | my time on the Internet, but in the right hands
m...@vex.net | it is a wondrous tool, and in the wrong hands
| it is an even better one." -- Cecil Adams
My text in this article is in the public domain.
Mark Brader
Mar 17, 2023, 4:01:34 PM3/17/23
to
"Larry":
Google News that was first to eliminate their conventent result
format with one line per hit.
But mostly I'm wondering if "sewtails" is some sort of typo, perhaps
aided by a spelling checked, or what. I guess the word is supposed
to be "details".
--
Mark Brader, Toronto "But I want credit for all the words
m...@vex.net I spelled *right*!" -- BEETLE BAILEY
> My bank recently change their web site. The worst part of it is that
> instead of being able to read about 20 entries in the account sewtails,
> they have spread them vertically, and I can see only 5.
I'm trying to remember whether it was DejaNews or its successor
> instead of being able to read about 20 entries in the account sewtails,
> they have spread them vertically, and I can see only 5.
Google News that was first to eliminate their conventent result
format with one line per hit.
But mostly I'm wondering if "sewtails" is some sort of typo, perhaps
aided by a spelling checked, or what. I guess the word is supposed
to be "details".
--
Mark Brader, Toronto "But I want credit for all the words
m...@vex.net I spelled *right*!" -- BEETLE BAILEY
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