minced pork rice

[Yurui Liu]

Hi,

I'm wondering whether the term "minced pork rice" is a natural
English expression, or it has a foreign feel to it.

I'd appreciate your help.

[RH Draney]

On 11/24/2020 8:13 PM, Yurui Liu wrote:
>
> I'm wondering whether the term "minced pork rice" is a natural
> English expression, or it has a foreign feel to it.

"Minced" in any context is foreign to AmE ears...(that said, I may very
well be about to fix myself a dish of something that your expression
would described very nicely)....r

[Yurui Liu]

RH Draney 在 2020年11月25日 星期三上午11:38:29 [UTC+8] 的信中寫道：

Replace "minced" with "braised." Does "braised pork rice" sound un-English
to you?

[bil...@shaw.ca]

It is a typical listing of two major ingredients in a dish, usually found as a label or
a headline on a printed recipe. All it tells you is that the dish includes minced pork and rice,
not what other ingredients and any herbs and spices are in it. For that, you have to read
the full recipe. All three words are English, and there is nothing that suggests another
language.

bill

[Jerry Friedman]

I'd say there is. We don't say "tomato sauce spaghetti" or "beef noodles" or "beans
almonds". We normally need "and" or "with" or "on" or some such.

I'd expect to find "minced pork rice" or "braised pork rice" on the menu of an Asian
restaurant, considering both the syntax and the ingredients.

OK, we do say "strawberry shortcake and "cheese fries" and even "chile cheese
fries". And the British say "cauliflower cheese", a phrase that comes up here now
and then--maybe only because I bring it up. But I think that's syntactically different.

--
Jerry Friedman
Dvandva!

[Peter Moylan]

On 25/11/20 14:13, Yurui Liu wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I'm wondering whether the term "minced pork rice" is a natural
> English expression, or it has a foreign feel to it.

It sounds unnatural to me. I would expect "minced pork with rice" or
"minced pork and rice". The original suggests that something called
"pork rice" has been minced, and there is no such thing.

This might vary by region, though. A meal called "macaroni and cheese"
is called simply "macaroni cheese" in some places.

--
Peter Moylan Newcastle, NSW

[Mack A. Damia]

It has its own Wiki article:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minced_pork_rice

See "Etymology".

[Yurui Liu]

Jerry Friedman 在 2020年11月25日 星期三上午11:56:33 [UTC+8] 的信中寫道：

Strawberry shortcake is a kind of shortcake, just as cheese fries are a kind of
fries. But "minced pork rice" isn't a kind of rice. I guess that's why it sounds
unusual. How does "pork fried rice" sound to you? It doesn't share the problem of
"minced pork rice" as it's a kind of fried rice.

As I suspect, the fact that the British say "cauliflower cheese" and "macaroni cheese"
probably conforms to their acceptance of "beef noodles."

https://recipes.sainsburys.co.uk/recipes/main-courses/chinese-beef-noodles
https://www.bbcgoodfood.com/recipes/quick-beef-broccoli-noodles



> --
> Jerry Friedman
> Dvandva!

[Garrett Wollman]

In article <i261te...@mid.individual.net>,

RH Draney <dado...@cox.net> wrote:
>On 11/24/2020 8:13 PM, Yurui Liu wrote:
>>
>> I'm wondering whether the term "minced pork rice" is a natural
>> English expression, or it has a foreign feel to it.
>
>"Minced" in any context is foreign to AmE ears...

Unless those ears were accustomed to watching cooking shows.
"Mincing" is the finest (i.e., smallest, not best) form of a chop or
dice, done with a knife. Used only for vegetables: one would mince
garlic, most commonly, or herbs, meaning to chop them up into very
small pieces. Meat would of course be ground, using a grinder, and
hard vegetables can also be grated. (These produce very different
results: mincing a carrot would produce a very fine dice, whereas
grating a carrot produces very thin, narrow strips, and grating ginger
just produces mush.)

Many people can't be bothered to mince garlic (it's hella fiddly, as
a Californian might say) and just use a "garlic press" to crush the
garlic and extrude it through an array of tiny holes as a paste.
There's no similar tool for other vegetables; it would take too much
force and there's not much call for onion paste or crushed celery.

-GAWollman

--
Garrett A. Wollman | "Act to avoid constraining the future; if you can,
wol...@bimajority.org| act to remove constraint from the future. This is
Opinions not shared by| a thing you can do, are able to do, to do together."
my employers. | - Graydon Saunders, _A Succession of Bad Days_ (2015)

[Joy Beeson]

Add a hyphen and "minced-pork rice" sounds perfectly natural to me.
Assuming that it's rice flavored with minced pork.

(Which reminds me of my disappointment at Steak 'n Shake -- I ordered
"chili mac" and got chili-topped spaghetti. And the "chili" was
barbecue sauce with chili powder in it -- disgustingly sweet. Proper
chili mac is chili with elbow macaroni cooked in it. It would be
acceptable to add pre-cooked macaroni to chile so as to serve two
dishes from the same pot, but mounding spaghetti on a plate and
pouring barbecue sauce over it is RIGHT OUT.)

(That Steak 'n Shake is no longer around, but it wasn't the food -- it
was their habit of waiting until the food was thoroughly cold before
bringing it to you -- after spending an eon or two getting around to
taking your order, and another eon getting around to preparing it.
They had been gone for quite a while before I noticed.)


--
Joy Beeson, U.S.A., mostly central Hoosier,
some Northern Indiana, Upstate New York, Florida, and Hawaii
joy beeson at centurylink dot net http://wlweather.net/PAGEJOY/
The above message is a Usenet post.

[charles]

In article <rpktcb$19ms$2...@grapevine.csail.mit.edu>,

Garrett Wollman <wol...@bimajority.org> wrote:
> In article <i261te...@mid.individual.net>,
> RH Draney <dado...@cox.net> wrote:
> >On 11/24/2020 8:13 PM, Yurui Liu wrote:
> >>
> >> I'm wondering whether the term "minced pork rice" is a natural
> >> English expression, or it has a foreign feel to it.
> >
> >"Minced" in any context is foreign to AmE ears...

> Unless those ears were accustomed to watching cooking shows.
> "Mincing" is the finest (i.e., smallest, not best) form of a chop or
> dice, done with a knife. Used only for vegetables: one would mince
> garlic, most commonly, or herbs, meaning to chop them up into very
> small pieces. Meat would of course be ground, using a grinder, and
> hard vegetables can also be grated. (These produce very different
> results: mincing a carrot would produce a very fine dice, whereas
> grating a carrot produces very thin, narrow strips, and grating ginger
> just produces mush.)

> Many people can't be bothered to mince garlic (it's hella fiddly, as
> a Californian might say) and just use a "garlic press" to crush the
> garlic and extrude it through an array of tiny holes as a paste.
> There's no similar tool for other vegetables; it would take too much
> force and there's not much call for onion paste or crushed celery.

obviously a pondial difference, we mince beef (usually) or other meats. My
wife regularly buys it from the butcher.

--
from KT24 in Surrey, England
"I'd rather die of exhaustion than die of boredom" Thomas Carlyle

[Peter Moylan]

And the hand-cranked machine we had WIWAL was called a mincer. In my
country, that is.

(They still exist, but these days most people let the butcher do the job.)

I dislike using a garlic press, by the way. It's not much work to chop a
few cloves of garlic with a knife.

[RH Draney]

On 11/25/2020 4:04 AM, Peter Moylan wrote:
>
> I dislike using a garlic press, by the way. It's not much work to chop a
> few cloves of garlic with a knife.

Graham Kerr ("The Galloping Gourmet") used to lay the cloves out on the
cutting board and smash them into a pulp with a fist on the flat of a
knife blade....r

[Tony Cooper]

On Wed, 25 Nov 2020 01:54:22 -0500, Joy Beeson
<jbe...@invalid.net.invalid> wrote:


>(Which reminds me of my disappointment at Steak 'n Shake -- I ordered
>"chili mac" and got chili-topped spaghetti. And the "chili" was
>barbecue sauce with chili powder in it -- disgustingly sweet. Proper
>chili mac is chili with elbow macaroni cooked in it. It would be
>acceptable to add pre-cooked macaroni to chile so as to serve two
>dishes from the same pot, but mounding spaghetti on a plate and
>pouring barbecue sauce over it is RIGHT OUT.)

I happen to like Steak 'n Shake's chili. It's the only reason I ever
go to a Steak 'n Shake.

The idea that there is a "proper" way to prepare chili mac would raise
hackles in the part of the Midwest that I grew up in. And, I grew up
making frequent trips with my father to Blacker's Chili Parlor in
Indianapolis in the 1940s.

https://www.indystar.com/story/life/food/2018/02/16/retro-recipes-why-some-hoosiers-put-spaghetti-chili/1074476001/

While I made an effort, I never did get around to ordering each of the
variations on the Blacker's menu.

My wife prepares a mean chili, and I do prefer elbow macaroni to
spaghetti, but because it's less messy to eat. The flopping spaghetti
strands scatter drops of chili all over one's clothing. No
significent difference in taste, though.

Steak 'n Shake, by the way, is headquartered in Indianapolis although
it started in Illinois in the 1930s. There were no locations in
Indianapolis until 1954.

--

Tony Cooper Orlando Florida

[Jerry Friedman]

On Wednesday, November 25, 2020 at 3:15:06 AM UTC-7, charles wrote:
> In article <rpktcb$19ms$2...@grapevine.csail.mit.edu>,
> Garrett Wollman <wol...@bimajority.org> wrote:
> > In article <i261te...@mid.individual.net>,
> > RH Draney <dado...@cox.net> wrote:
> > >On 11/24/2020 8:13 PM, Yurui Liu wrote:
> > >>
> > >> I'm wondering whether the term "minced pork rice" is a natural
> > >> English expression, or it has a foreign feel to it.
> > >
> > >"Minced" in any context is foreign to AmE ears...
>
> > Unless those ears were accustomed to watching cooking shows.
> > "Mincing" is the finest (i.e., smallest, not best) form of a chop or
> > dice, done with a knife. Used only for vegetables: one would mince
> > garlic, most commonly, or herbs, meaning to chop them up into very
> > small pieces. Meat would of course be ground, using a grinder, and
> > hard vegetables can also be grated.

...

> obviously a pondial difference, we mince beef (usually) or other meats. My
> wife regularly buys it from the butcher.

We call that ground beef, as Garrett implied (and many of us buy it).

--
Jerry Friedman

[Ken Blake]

On 11/24/2020 8:13 PM, Yurui Liu wrote:

> I'm wondering whether the term "minced pork rice" is a natural
> English expression, or it has a foreign feel to it.

Neither. It sounds odd to me. I've never seen or heard the term.

First, although I know the word "minced," using it with pork or any
other kind of meat is not common in AmE, although it apparently is in
BrE. AmE generally uses "minced" only for something like garlic or
ginger. In AmE, finely chopped meat is usually called "ground" rather
than "minced."

Second, I think "minced pork" should be "minced-pork," with a hyphen.

Third, "minced pork rice" looks odd because "minced pork" appears to be
used as an adjective describing a kind of rice. It should be something
more like "minced-pork with rice" or, probably better, "rice with
minced-pork."

--
Ken

[Peter T. Daniels]

ITYM "macaroni cheese." Sounds like something Kraft could call Velveeta Over There.
(Not that macaroni & cheese made with Velveeta instead of cheese is an acceptable
dish.)

[Peter T. Daniels]

On Wednesday, November 25, 2020 at 1:54:28 AM UTC-5, Joy Beeson wrote:
> On Wed, 25 Nov 2020 15:30:03 +1100, Peter Moylan
> <pe...@pmoylan.org.invalid> wrote:
>
> > On 25/11/20 14:13, Yurui Liu wrote:
> > > Hi,
> > >
> > > I'm wondering whether the term "minced pork rice" is a natural
> > > English expression, or it has a foreign feel to it.
> >
> > It sounds unnatural to me. I would expect "minced pork with rice" or
> > "minced pork and rice". The original suggests that something called
> > "pork rice" has been minced, and there is no such thing.
> >
> > This might vary by region, though. A meal called "macaroni and cheese"
> > is called simply "macaroni cheese" in some places.
> Add a hyphen and "minced-pork rice" sounds perfectly natural to me.
> Assuming that it's rice flavored with minced pork.
>
> (Which reminds me of my disappointment at Steak 'n Shake -- I ordered
> "chili mac" and got chili-topped spaghetti. And the "chili" was
> barbecue sauce with chili powder in it -- disgustingly sweet. Proper
> chili mac is chili with elbow macaroni cooked in it. It would be
> acceptable to add pre-cooked macaroni to chile so as to serve two
> dishes from the same pot, but mounding spaghetti on a plate and
> pouring barbecue sauce over it is RIGHT OUT.)

That's one of the "ways" spaghetti is served in Cincinnati (probably
too far from your bailiwick to be an influence) -- but with actual chili,
not "barbecue sauce." There was a luncheonette in the Chicago Loop
for a short time that offered the standard five(?) "Ways," which involved
adding more and more ingredients on top of the spaghetti. IIRC chopped
onions and shredded yellow cheese were two of them.

> (That Steak 'n Shake is no longer around, but it wasn't the food -- it
> was their habit of waiting until the food was thoroughly cold before
> bringing it to you -- after spending an eon or two getting around to
> taking your order, and another eon getting around to preparing it.
> They had been gone for quite a while before I noticed.)

I think Steak 'n' Shake was the chain that took over the space across
Broadway from Columbia University that had been occupied by Ollie's,
a huge, busy, and good Chinese restaurant. Its prices were higher than
at seemingly comparable burger joints, but one day I was desperate.
Whatever I ordered didn't particularly correspond to the menu board
listing, and they used the "take the vibrator thing somewhere and wait
for us to call you" method. Which took far longer than it should have.

I wonder if it'll still be there when the city opens up again.

[Quinn C]

* charles:

Furthermore, you have mincemeat, which contains no meat.

--
What Phrenzy in my Bosom rag'd,
And by what Care to be asswag'd?
-- Sappho, transl. Addison (1711)
What was it that my distracted heart most wanted?
-- transl. Barnard (1958)

[charles]

In article <1cs17f93e2gr3$.d...@mid.crommatograph.info>, Quinn C

but it probably did in times gone by.

[Quinn C]

* charles:

Indeed, I see.

I thought it was one of those cases where the old meaning of a word is
preserved. The predecessor of "meat" used to mean any food, preserved in
e.g. Danish "mad".

But not this time.

--
Quinn C
My pronouns are they/them
(or other gender-neutral ones)

[Garrett Wollman]

In article <58d4e309...@candehope.me.uk>,

charles <cha...@candehope.me.uk> wrote:
>In article <rpktcb$19ms$2...@grapevine.csail.mit.edu>,
> Garrett Wollman <wol...@bimajority.org> wrote:

>> Unless those ears were accustomed to watching cooking shows.
>> "Mincing" is the finest (i.e., smallest, not best) form of a chop or
>> dice, done with a knife. Used only for vegetables: one would mince
>> garlic, most commonly, or herbs, meaning to chop them up into very
>> small pieces. Meat would of course be ground, using a grinder, and
>> hard vegetables can also be grated.

>obviously a pondial difference, we mince beef (usually) or other meats. My
>wife regularly buys it from the butcher.

Which is why I mentioned it.

I avoid buying ground beef; it's much better for burgers if you grind
it fresh. But I do buy sausage, because that's quite a bit more
hassle, and other ground meats I use even more rarely.

This is the time of year when we have "sausage meat" (or "bulk
sausage" or "uncased sausge") which is a common ingredient in turkey
stuffing/dressing. Same stuff as they put in the casing for links,
just sold without the intestine. I have a pound of it in the fridge
for tomorrow, although I need rather less than that. (Some people,
although not I, like to make sausage meat up into patties and fry it
off like a burger.)

[Ken Blake]

On 11/25/2020 1:16 PM, Garrett Wollman wrote:
> In article <58d4e309...@candehope.me.uk>,
> charles <cha...@candehope.me.uk> wrote:
>>In article <rpktcb$19ms$2...@grapevine.csail.mit.edu>,
>> Garrett Wollman <wol...@bimajority.org> wrote:
>
>>> Unless those ears were accustomed to watching cooking shows.
>>> "Mincing" is the finest (i.e., smallest, not best) form of a chop or
>>> dice, done with a knife. Used only for vegetables: one would mince
>>> garlic, most commonly, or herbs, meaning to chop them up into very
>>> small pieces. Meat would of course be ground, using a grinder, and
>>> hard vegetables can also be grated.
>
>>obviously a pondial difference, we mince beef (usually) or other meats. My
>>wife regularly buys it from the butcher.
>
> Which is why I mentioned it.
>
> I avoid buying ground beef; it's much better for burgers if you grind
> it fresh.

It's also safer because you can wash the beef before grinding, therefore
avoiding the risk of having surface e-coli getting into it.


--
Ken

[Ken Blake]

I do that before peeling the cloves since it makes them much easier to
peel, and I also sometimes cut slices after peeling and smash them that
way for use in a stir-fried dish.

But either way, the result is very different from mincing.


--
Ken

[Sam Plusnet]

On 25-Nov-20 11:04, Peter Moylan wrote:

> And the hand-cranked machine we had WIWAL was called a mincer. In my
> country, that is.
>
> (They still exist, but these days most people let the butcher do the job.)
>

In the UK, the archetypal maker of those hand cranked mincers was Spong
& Co.

By 1882 the company was able to advertise that their mincing machine was
"owned by ‘Her Most Gracious Queen Victoria', the Admiralty and the War
Office, and could be found in the mansions of the nobility, the
mess-rooms of the army and navy at home and abroad, also in the
universities, colleges and many other great institutions of England."

It would need a thorough search of the attic, but I'm pretty sure I
could lay my hands on a Spong mincer even today.

--
Sam Plusnet
Wales, UK

[Yurui Liu]

Ken Blake 在 2020年11月25日 星期三下午11:07:51 [UTC+8] 的信中寫道：

Do you find "chicken fried rice" odd too, as far as your third reason is concerned?

[Adam Funk]

On 2020-11-26, Peter Moylan wrote:

> Is ground pork also called groundhog?

That would be too confusing, especially since "ground chuck" exists in
AmE too.

Is Marmite good on marmot?


--
hornswoop me, bungo pony, dogsled on ice

[RH Draney]

On 11/26/2020 2:55 AM, Adam Funk wrote:
> On 2020-11-26, Peter Moylan wrote:
>
>> On 26/11/20 01:34, Jerry Friedman wrote:
>>> On Wednesday, November 25, 2020 at 3:15:06 AM UTC-7, charles wrote:
>>
>>>> obviously a pondial difference, we mince beef (usually) or other meats. My
>>>> wife regularly buys it from the butcher.
>>>
>>> We call that ground beef, as Garrett implied (and many of us buy it).
>>
>> Is ground pork also called groundhog?
>
> That would be too confusing, especially since "ground chuck" exists in
> AmE too.

No confusion...we already know there's no ham in hamburger....r

[Ken Blake]

No, "chicken" modifies "fried rice." "Chicken fried rice" is a kind of
fried rice.

It's at least in part because "chicken fried rice" is a common phrase
that I find "minced pork rice" wrong. To me, reading it the same way as
"chicken fried rice," "minced pork rice" reads as a kind (minced) of
pork rice, not as a minced-pork kind of rice.


--
Ken

[Jerry Friedman]

On Thursday, November 26, 2020 at 3:00:07 AM UTC-7, Adam Funk wrote:
> On 2020-11-26, Peter Moylan wrote:
> > On 26/11/20 01:34, Jerry Friedman wrote:
> >> On Wednesday, November 25, 2020 at 3:15:06 AM UTC-7, charles wrote:
> >
> >>> obviously a pondial difference, we mince beef (usually) or other meats. My
> >>> wife regularly buys it from the butcher.
> >>
> >> We call that ground beef, as Garrett implied (and many of us buy it).
> >
> > Is ground pork also called groundhog?
>
> That would be too confusing, especially since "ground chuck" exists in
> AmE too.

This brings us to "Wood Hog", a brand of horizontal grinder.

https://www.morbark.com/product/6400x-wood-hog-horizontal-grinder/

The model shown there is "Ideal for processing wood waste, land clearing
and storm debris into saleable products" and has "the standard Caterpillar
325L undercarriage with 600mm double grousers". I'm sure double grousers
are at least twice as good as single grousers.

I wonder whether anyone ever calls it a Ground Chuck.

> Is Marmite good on marmot?

Or would you rather have more meat? (My mother says "more meat" was
my first two-word phrase.)

--
Jerry Friedman

[Peter T. Daniels]

On Wednesday, November 25, 2020 at 9:53:46 PM UTC-5, liuyur...@gmail.com wrote:
> Ken Blake 在 2020年11月25日 星期三下午11:07:51 [UTC+8] 的信中寫道：

> > Third, "minced pork rice" looks odd because "minced pork" appears to be
> > used as an adjective describing a kind of rice. It should be something
> > more like "minced-pork with rice" or, probably better, "rice with
> > minced-pork."
>

> Do you find "chicken fried rice" odd too, as far as your third reason is concerned?

"Pork fried rice" is perfectly fine.

If the port were "minced," would you even know it was there?

[Mack A. Damia]

On Thu, 26 Nov 2020 06:48:35 -0800 (PST), Jerry Friedman
<jerry_f...@yahoo.com> wrote:

>On Thursday, November 26, 2020 at 3:00:07 AM UTC-7, Adam Funk wrote:
>> On 2020-11-26, Peter Moylan wrote:
>> > On 26/11/20 01:34, Jerry Friedman wrote:
>> >> On Wednesday, November 25, 2020 at 3:15:06 AM UTC-7, charles wrote:
>> >
>> >>> obviously a pondial difference, we mince beef (usually) or other meats. My
>> >>> wife regularly buys it from the butcher.
>> >>
>> >> We call that ground beef, as Garrett implied (and many of us buy it).
>> >
>> > Is ground pork also called groundhog?
>>
>> That would be too confusing, especially since "ground chuck" exists in
>> AmE too.
>
>This brings us to "Wood Hog", a brand of horizontal grinder.
>
>https://www.morbark.com/product/6400x-wood-hog-horizontal-grinder/
>
>The model shown there is "Ideal for processing wood waste, land clearing
>and storm debris into saleable products" and has "the standard Caterpillar
>325L undercarriage with 600mm double grousers". I'm sure double grousers
>are at least twice as good as single grousers.
>
>I wonder whether anyone ever calls it a Ground Chuck.

Yes, sometimes. 80% - 20% is chuck and best for hamburgers.

[Sam Plusnet]

On 26-Nov-20 14:48, Jerry Friedman wrote:
> On Thursday, November 26, 2020 at 3:00:07 AM UTC-7, Adam Funk wrote:
>> On 2020-11-26, Peter Moylan wrote:
>>> On 26/11/20 01:34, Jerry Friedman wrote:
>>>> On Wednesday, November 25, 2020 at 3:15:06 AM UTC-7, charles wrote:
>>>
>>>>> obviously a pondial difference, we mince beef (usually) or other meats. My
>>>>> wife regularly buys it from the butcher.
>>>>
>>>> We call that ground beef, as Garrett implied (and many of us buy it).
>>>
>>> Is ground pork also called groundhog?
>>
>> That would be too confusing, especially since "ground chuck" exists in
>> AmE too.
>
> This brings us to "Wood Hog", a brand of horizontal grinder.
>
> https://www.morbark.com/product/6400x-wood-hog-horizontal-grinder/
>
> The model shown there is "Ideal for processing wood waste, land clearing
> and storm debris into saleable products" and has "the standard Caterpillar
> 325L undercarriage with 600mm double grousers". I'm sure double grousers
> are at least twice as good as single grousers.
>

Shirley that should be a brace of grouse?

[David Kleinecke]

A brace of grice?

[Quinn C]

* Jerry Friedman:

> On Thursday, November 26, 2020 at 3:00:07 AM UTC-7, Adam Funk wrote:
>> On 2020-11-26, Peter Moylan wrote:
>>> On 26/11/20 01:34, Jerry Friedman wrote:
>>>> On Wednesday, November 25, 2020 at 3:15:06 AM UTC-7, charles wrote:
>>>
>>>>> obviously a pondial difference, we mince beef (usually) or other meats. My
>>>>> wife regularly buys it from the butcher.
>>>>
>>>> We call that ground beef, as Garrett implied (and many of us buy it).
>>>
>>> Is ground pork also called groundhog?
>>
>> That would be too confusing, especially since "ground chuck" exists in
>> AmE too.
>
> This brings us to "Wood Hog", a brand of horizontal grinder.
>
> https://www.morbark.com/product/6400x-wood-hog-horizontal-grinder/
>
> The model shown there is "Ideal for processing wood waste, land clearing
> and storm debris into saleable products" and has "the standard Caterpillar
> 325L undercarriage with 600mm double grousers". I'm sure double grousers
> are at least twice as good as single grousers.

If they give you double the grouses, sure.

Even though they don't look similar, I had to focus not to read "wood
waste" as the much more familiar "food waste".

--
But I have never chosen my human environment. I have always
borrowed it from someone like you or Monk or Doris.
-- Jane Rule, This Is Not For You, p.152

[Yurui Liu]

Peter T. Daniels 在 2020年11月27日 星期五上午12:36:52 [UTC+8] 的信中寫道：

> On Wednesday, November 25, 2020 at 9:53:46 PM UTC-5, liuyur...@gmail.com wrote:
> > Ken Blake 在 2020年11月25日 星期三下午11:07:51 [UTC+8] 的信中寫道：
> > > Third, "minced pork rice" looks odd because "minced pork" appears to be
> > > used as an adjective describing a kind of rice. It should be something
> > > more like "minced-pork with rice" or, probably better, "rice with
> > > minced-pork."
> >
> > Do you find "chicken fried rice" odd too, as far as your third reason is concerned?
> "Pork fried rice" is perfectly fine.

I find Brits generally unable to tell the difference between "X fried rice" and
"braised pork rice" in structural and/or semantic terms. Both sound fine to them.

What I suspect is, they extended the meanings of "rice" and "noodles" so that these
words refer to a rice- or noodle- dish. Maybe that's why they allow "beef noodles" and
"spaghetti bolognese," with "bolognese" defined by Lexico as "A pasta dish made
with bolognese sauce."

[Peter Moylan]

On 26/11/20 13:53, Yurui Liu wrote:
> Ken Blake 在 2020年11月25日 星期三下午11:07:51 [UTC+8] 的信中寫道：

>> Third, "minced pork rice" looks odd because "minced pork" appears
>> to be used as an adjective describing a kind of rice. It should be
>> something more like "minced-pork with rice" or, probably better,
>> "rice with minced-pork."
>

> Do you find "chicken fried rice" odd too, as far as your third reason
> is concerned?

In the US South, I'm told, you can get chicken-fried steak, so I suppose
chicken-fried rice would also be acceptable in that region.

[Peter Moylan]

On 26/11/20 20:55, Adam Funk wrote:
> On 2020-11-26, Peter Moylan wrote:
>
>> On 26/11/20 01:34, Jerry Friedman wrote:
>>> On Wednesday, November 25, 2020 at 3:15:06 AM UTC-7, charles wrote:
>>
>>>> obviously a pondial difference, we mince beef (usually) or other meats. My
>>>> wife regularly buys it from the butcher.
>>>
>>> We call that ground beef, as Garrett implied (and many of us buy it).
>>
>> Is ground pork also called groundhog?
>
> That would be too confusing, especially since "ground chuck" exists in
> AmE too.

Yuck. In AusE, "chuck" is a synonym of "chunder".

> Is Marmite good on marmot?

--

Peter Moylan Newcastle, NSW

[Yurui Liu]

Peter Moylan 在 2020年11月27日 星期五下午2:28:13 [UTC+8] 的信中寫道：

The placement of the hyphen makes a world of difference.
"Chicken-fried" in "chicken-fried steak" means "fried like chicken."
But "chicken fried rice" is parsed rather differently, with no hyphen
between "chicken" and "fried." It is [ chicken [fried rice] ].

[Adam Funk]

But chicken(-)fried steak contains no chicken. (It's similar to
Wiener schnitzel.)


--
Our function calls do not have parameters ---they have
arguments ---and they always win them.
---Klingon Programmer's Guide

[Adam Funk]

In AmE that would be "upchuck" or "chuck up". I don't think "chuck"
on its own is normal for that.

>> Is Marmite good on marmot?
>

--

I don't quite understand this worship of objectivity in
journalism. Now, just flat-out lying is different from being
subjective. ---Hunter S Thompson

[charles]

In article <0er69hx...@news.ducksburg.com>,

Adam Funk <a24...@ducksburg.com> wrote:
> On 2020-11-27, Peter Moylan wrote:

> > On 26/11/20 13:53, Yurui Liu wrote:

> >> Ken Blake # 2020#11#25# #####11:07:51 [UTC+8] ######

> >
> >>> Third, "minced pork rice" looks odd because "minced pork" appears
> >>> to be used as an adjective describing a kind of rice. It should be
> >>> something more like "minced-pork with rice" or, probably better,
> >>> "rice with minced-pork."
> >>
> >> Do you find "chicken fried rice" odd too, as far as your third reason
> >> is concerned?
> >
> > In the US South, I'm told, you can get chicken-fried steak, so I suppose
> > chicken-fried rice would also be acceptable in that region.

> But chicken(-)fried steak contains no chicken. (It's similar to
> Wiener schnitzel.)

and shepherds pie - nolonger made with real shepherd

[Peter Moylan]

On 27/11/20 21:20, charles wrote:
> In article <0er69hx...@news.ducksburg.com>,
> Adam Funk <a24...@ducksburg.com> wrote:
>> On 2020-11-27, Peter Moylan wrote:
>>> On 26/11/20 13:53, Yurui Liu wrote:

>>>> Do you find "chicken fried rice" odd too, as far as your third reason
>>>> is concerned?
>>>
>>> In the US South, I'm told, you can get chicken-fried steak, so I suppose
>>> chicken-fried rice would also be acceptable in that region.
>
>> But chicken(-)fried steak contains no chicken. (It's similar to
>> Wiener schnitzel.)
>
> and shepherds pie - nolonger made with real shepherd

And when was the last time you saw a real waldorf in your salad?

[Ken Blake]

On 11/26/2020 11:28 PM, Peter Moylan wrote:
> On 26/11/20 13:53, Yurui Liu wrote:
>> Ken Blake 在 2020年11月25日 星期三下午11:07:51 [UTC+8] 的信中寫道：
>
>>> Third, "minced pork rice" looks odd because "minced pork" appears
>>> to be used as an adjective describing a kind of rice. It should be
>>> something more like "minced-pork with rice" or, probably better,
>>> "rice with minced-pork."
>>
>> Do you find "chicken fried rice" odd too, as far as your third reason
>> is concerned?
>
> In the US South, I'm told, you can get chicken-fried steak,

I think it started in the south, but it's now available almost all over
the US.

> so I suppose
> chicken-fried rice would also be acceptable in that region.

No. "Chicken-fried steak" means steak fried the way chicken is fried.
"Chicken-fried rice" would mean rice fried the way chicken is
fried--covered in batter and fried in deep oil. It's never done.

Remove the hyphen in "chicken-fried rice" and "chicken fried rice" means
something very different--fried rice with chicken, a common dish in
American Chinese restaurants.

Or were you just joking?

--
Ken

[Ken Blake]

On 11/27/2020 1:53 AM, Adam Funk wrote:
> On 2020-11-27, Peter Moylan wrote:
>
>> On 26/11/20 13:53, Yurui Liu wrote:
>>> Ken Blake 在 2020年11月25日 星期三下午11:07:51 [UTC+8] 的信中寫道：
>>
>>>> Third, "minced pork rice" looks odd because "minced pork" appears
>>>> to be used as an adjective describing a kind of rice. It should be
>>>> something more like "minced-pork with rice" or, probably better,
>>>> "rice with minced-pork."
>>>
>>> Do you find "chicken fried rice" odd too, as far as your third reason
>>> is concerned?
>>
>> In the US South, I'm told, you can get chicken-fried steak, so I suppose
>> chicken-fried rice would also be acceptable in that region.
>
> But chicken(-)fried steak contains no chicken.

Right.

> (It's similar to
> Wiener schnitzel.)

?? Do you mean because it contains no wieners (frankfurters)? The word
"wiener" in "wiener schnitzel" doesn't men "frankfurter." It means it
comes from Wien (Vienna).


--
Ken

[Ken Blake]

As far as I know, "chunder" is never used in AmE, and I had to google it
to see what it means. Since you said it was synonomous with "chuck," I
guessed that what you meant was what we usually say as "chuck up," I
guessed at "chunder"s meaning, and I see that I guessed right.

"Chuck" by itself usually refers to a cut of beef, usually used for
steak or a pot roast.


--
Ken

[Peter T. Daniels]

But how would you get the batter to stick to the grains of rice?

[Adam Funk]

I hadn't thought of "contains no wieners" but it's also true. I meant
because they are both basically breaded cutlets (I think Wiener
schnitzel is generally veal, but it's the same species).



--
Dear Ann [Landers]: if there's an enormous rash of necrophilia that
happens in the next year because of this song, please let me know.
99.9% of the rest of us know it's a funny song! ---Alice Cooper

[Quinn C]

* Peter Moylan:

I went online yesterday to check beef cuts, and found that "chuck" is
one of them in Australia. A subpart of the American chuck.

<https://www.australianbeef.com.au/know-your-meat/beef-cuts/>

Is it not used in layman's beef talk?
--
All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that
good men do nothing.
-- Edmund Burke

[Quinn C]

* Ken Blake:

And of course the word "Frankfurter" in "Frankfurter Kranz" doesn't mean
"wiener", it means "comes from Frankfurt".

(I had mentioned this cake recently.)

P.S. I just learned what a Frito pie is. At first, I took it for a nonce
description, but I couldn't resist looking it up.

--
I found the Forshan religion restful. I found the Forshan
religious war less so.
-- J. Scalzi, Redshirts

[Sam Plusnet]

On 27-Nov-20 5:20, Yurui Liu wrote:
"Pork fried rice" is perfectly fine.
>
> I find Brits generally unable to tell the difference between "X fried rice" and
> "braised pork rice" in structural and/or semantic terms. Both sound fine to them.
>

I think you are missing the point.

People in the UK (and no doubt other English speaking countries) are
quite used to seeing (e.g.) "Chicken Fried Rice" "Pork Fried Rice" etc.
etc. on the menu in Chinese restaurants.
Consequently those seem entirely normal to us.

Your invented "minced pork rice" is not seen on any such menu and hence
strikes us as odd.

The key point is familiarity, not some underlying issue relating to the
structure of English.

All you need to do is to persuade the owners of Chinese restaurants
around the English speaking world to adopt your suggestion, wait a
decade or so, and then ask your original question again.
Everyone will say "Fine, That's quite normal."

[Sam Plusnet]

On 27-Nov-20 14:50, Ken Blake wrote:
> On 11/27/2020 1:53 AM, Adam Funk wrote:

>> But chicken(-)fried steak contains no chicken.
>
>
> Right.
>

It's a steak which has been fried in the same way that a chicken would
use - if it were give to cooking steak.

[Kerr-Mudd,John]

Pshurely the only meat at the chicken friery would be pork, pork[,] ank
morepork.



--
Bah, and indeed, Humbug.

[Peter Moylan]

On 28/11/20 05:57, Quinn C wrote:
> * Peter Moylan:
>
>> On 26/11/20 20:55, Adam Funk wrote:
>>> On 2020-11-26, Peter Moylan wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 26/11/20 01:34, Jerry Friedman wrote:
>>>>> On Wednesday, November 25, 2020 at 3:15:06 AM UTC-7, charles
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>> obviously a pondial difference, we mince beef (usually) or
>>>>>> other meats. My wife regularly buys it from the butcher.
>>>>>
>>>>> We call that ground beef, as Garrett implied (and many of us
>>>>> buy it).
>>>>
>>>> Is ground pork also called groundhog?
>>>
>>> That would be too confusing, especially since "ground chuck"
>>> exists in AmE too.
>>
>> Yuck. In AusE, "chuck" is a synonym of "chunder".
>
> I went online yesterday to check beef cuts, and found that "chuck" is
> one of them in Australia. A subpart of the American chuck.
>
> <https://www.australianbeef.com.au/know-your-meat/beef-cuts/>
>
> Is it not used in layman's beef talk?

We will sometimes see "chuck steak" as a label on the butcher's
offerings, but for that meaning we wouldn't use the word "chuck" alone,
because of the unpleasant association.

It might be different when butchers speak among themselves.

Of course "chuck" is OK when the context suggests that it's about
throwing something else. When talking about woodchucks, for example. I
would just avoid it in reference to food.

[Peter Moylan]

On 28/11/20 06:43, Sam Plusnet wrote:
> On 27-Nov-20 5:20, Yurui Liu wrote: "Pork fried rice" is perfectly
> fine.
>>
>> I find Brits generally unable to tell the difference between "X
>> fried rice" and "braised pork rice" in structural and/or semantic
>> terms. Both sound fine to them.
>
> I think you are missing the point.
>
> People in the UK (and no doubt other English speaking countries) are
> quite used to seeing (e.g.) "Chicken Fried Rice" "Pork Fried Rice"
> etc. etc. on the menu in Chinese restaurants. Consequently those seem
> entirely normal to us.

Yes, but we would not expect to see them in non-Chinese restaurants.
These constructs are Chinese English, not native English.

[Peter Moylan]

Similarly, a wiener sausage comes from Vienna. The ones from Frankfurt
use a different recipe, I believe.

[Jerry Friedman]

Very popular here in northern N.M. and probably the rest of N.M.

--
Jerry Friedman

[Lewis]

I have had chicken-fried steak many times, and I have had chicken fried
rice more times, but I have never had chicken-fried rice and cannot
imagine how that could be made.

--
At 20:43 the dome of St. Elvis Cathedral shattered... and the Devil
walked the earth again. He'd never really left.

[RH Draney]

Concurrence...it was on the school lunch menu at least once a week when
I was in high school (1972-75) in the southwestern corner of the state....r

[Adam Funk]

Have woodchucks been imported into Australia now, & is throwing them a
sport?


--
books by the blameless and by the dead

[Kerr-Mudd,John]

If so, what scores how been obtained?

[Jerry Friedman]

On Sunday, November 29, 2020 at 4:30:09 AM UTC-7, Adam Funk wrote:
> On 2020-11-28, Peter Moylan wrote:
>
> > On 28/11/20 05:57, Quinn C wrote:
> >> * Peter Moylan:

[AmE: ground chuck]

> >>> Yuck. In AusE, "chuck" is a synonym of "chunder".
> >>
> >> I went online yesterday to check beef cuts, and found that "chuck" is
> >> one of them in Australia. A subpart of the American chuck.
> >>
> >> <https://www.australianbeef.com.au/know-your-meat/beef-cuts/>
> >>
> >> Is it not used in layman's beef talk?
> >
> > We will sometimes see "chuck steak" as a label on the butcher's
> > offerings, but for that meaning we wouldn't use the word "chuck" alone,
> > because of the unpleasant association.
> >
> > It might be different when butchers speak among themselves.
> >
> > Of course "chuck" is OK when the context suggests that it's about
> > throwing something else. When talking about woodchucks, for example. I
> > would just avoid it in reference to food.
> Have woodchucks been imported into Australia now, & is throwing them a
> sport?

How many woodchucks would an Aussie chuck?

--
Jerry Friedman

[Sam Plusnet]

Are there prizes to be won?
What's at steak?

[Jerry Friedman]

On Friday, November 27, 2020 at 11:01:24 PM UTC-7, Lewis wrote:
> In message <rpq69p$p19$1...@dont-email.me> Peter Moylan <pe...@pmoylan.org.invalid> wrote:
> > On 26/11/20 13:53, Yurui Liu wrote:
> >> Ken Blake 在 2020年11月25日 星期三下午11:07:51 [UTC+8] 的信中寫道：
>
> >>> Third, "minced pork rice" looks odd because "minced pork" appears
> >>> to be used as an adjective describing a kind of rice. It should be
> >>> something more like "minced-pork with rice" or, probably better,
> >>> "rice with minced-pork."
> >>
> >> Do you find "chicken fried rice" odd too, as far as your third reason
> >> is concerned?
>
> > In the US South, I'm told, you can get chicken-fried steak, so I suppose
> > chicken-fried rice would also be acceptable in that region.
> I have had chicken-fried steak many times, and I have had chicken fried
> rice more times, but I have never had chicken-fried rice and cannot
> imagine how that could be made.

Rice fritters, rice calas, rice croquettes, and arancini may not be exactly
chicken-fried rice, but these two aren't too distant:

https://www.foodrepublic.com/2012/09/06/what-to-do-with-leftover-risotto-arancini-croquettes/

https://app.ckbk.com/recipe/sedu55662c08s001r017/rice-croquettes

(Apologies, some of these foods are suitable for breakfast.)

--
Jerry Friedman

[Peter Moylan]

The animal itself has not made it to Australia, but the tongue twister
arrived here a long time ago.

It is repeated so mindlessly that it never occurs to us to ask what a
woodchuck might be. In fact, it wasn't until in the middle of writing
this reply that I finally googled it and realised why somebody upthread
made an association between groundhog and ground chuck.

[Adam Funk]

How much ground would a groundhog hog...?


--
Cats don't have friends. They have co-conspirators.
http://www.gocomics.com/getfuzzy/2015/05/31

[RH Draney]

On 11/30/2020 2:09 AM, Adam Funk wrote:
> On 2020-11-30, Peter Moylan wrote:
>
>> On 29/11/20 22:25, Adam Funk wrote:
>>> On 2020-11-28, Peter Moylan wrote:
>>
>>>> Of course "chuck" is OK when the context suggests that it's about
>>>> throwing something else. When talking about woodchucks, for
>>>> example. I would just avoid it in reference to food.
>>>
>>> Have woodchucks been imported into Australia now, & is throwing them
>>> a sport?
>>
>> The animal itself has not made it to Australia, but the tongue twister
>> arrived here a long time ago.
>>
>> It is repeated so mindlessly that it never occurs to us to ask what a
>> woodchuck might be. In fact, it wasn't until in the middle of writing
>> this reply that I finally googled it and realised why somebody upthread
>> made an association between groundhog and ground chuck.
>
> How much ground would a groundhog hog...?

How many Lowe's would Rob Lowe rob if Rob Lowe could rob Lowe's?...r

[Kerr-Mudd,John]

On Mon, 30 Nov 2020 09:09:12 GMT, Adam Funk <a24...@ducksburg.com> wrote:

> On 2020-11-30, Peter Moylan wrote:
>
>> On 29/11/20 22:25, Adam Funk wrote:
>>> On 2020-11-28, Peter Moylan wrote:
>>
>>>> Of course "chuck" is OK when the context suggests that it's about
>>>> throwing something else. When talking about woodchucks, for
>>>> example. I would just avoid it in reference to food.
>>>
>>> Have woodchucks been imported into Australia now, & is throwing them
>>> a sport?
>>
>> The animal itself has not made it to Australia, but the tongue twister
>> arrived here a long time ago.
>>
>> It is repeated so mindlessly that it never occurs to us to ask what a
>> woodchuck might be. In fact, it wasn't until in the middle of writing
>> this reply that I finally googled it and realised why somebody
upthread
>> made an association between groundhog and ground chuck.
>
> How much ground would a groundhog hog...?
>

My first impression of a groundhog was from the eponymous band, which had
loosely based it's image on a low-rider motorcycle. Imagine my surprise
every time I see a film featuring real ones. It seems to be regularly
reshown on UK TV.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Groundhogs
(what no logo?)

[Athel Cornish-Bowden]

On 2020-11-30 02:11:40 +0000, Peter Moylan said:

> On 29/11/20 22:25, Adam Funk wrote:
>> On 2020-11-28, Peter Moylan wrote:
>
>>> Of course "chuck" is OK when the context suggests that it's about
>>> throwing something else. When talking about woodchucks, for
>>> example. I would just avoid it in reference to food.
>>
>> Have woodchucks been imported into Australia now, & is throwing them
>> a sport?
>
> The animal itself has not made it to Australia, but the tongue twister
> arrived here a long time ago.

As tongue twisters go it's about the easiest to say.

>
> It is repeated so mindlessly that it never occurs to us to ask what a
> woodchuck might be. In fact, it wasn't until in the middle of writing
> this reply that I finally googled it and realised why somebody upthread
> made an association between groundhog and ground chuck.


--

Athel -- British, living in France for 34 years

[RH Draney]

On 11/30/2020 2:47 AM, Kerr-Mudd,John wrote:

> My first impression of a groundhog was from the eponymous band, which had
> loosely based it's image on a low-rider motorcycle. Imagine my surprise
> every time I see a film featuring real ones. It seems to be regularly
> reshown on UK TV.

...and if you see its shadow?...r

[Peter Moylan]

On 30/11/20 21:10, Athel Cornish-Bowden wrote:
> On 2020-11-30 02:11:40 +0000, Peter Moylan said:
>
>> On 29/11/20 22:25, Adam Funk wrote:
>>> On 2020-11-28, Peter Moylan wrote:
>>
>>>> Of course "chuck" is OK when the context suggests that it's about
>>>> throwing something else. When talking about woodchucks, for
>>>> example. I would just avoid it in reference to food.
>>>
>>> Have woodchucks been imported into Australia now, & is throwing them
>>> a sport?
>>
>> The animal itself has not made it to Australia, but the tongue twister
>> arrived here a long time ago.
>
> As tongue twisters go it's about the easiest to say.

Isn't that because we've had so much practice on it?

Here's a sentence of roughly equal complexity. (I picked it up from a
song I heard in Wollongong.) See whether you think it's easy to say.

Old Ma Hunt had a rough-cut punt
Not a punt cut rough
But a rough-cut punt.

[Ken Blake]

On 11/29/2020 7:11 PM, Peter Moylan wrote:
> On 29/11/20 22:25, Adam Funk wrote:
>> On 2020-11-28, Peter Moylan wrote:
>
>>> Of course "chuck" is OK when the context suggests that it's about
>>> throwing something else. When talking about woodchucks, for
>>> example. I would just avoid it in reference to food.
>>
>> Have woodchucks been imported into Australia now, & is throwing them
>> a sport?
>
> The animal itself has not made it to Australia, but the tongue twister
> arrived here a long time ago.
>
> It is repeated so mindlessly that it never occurs to us to ask what a
> woodchuck might be.

It's a dead animal lying on the road.

--
Ken

[Athel Cornish-Bowden]

Yes, but that has an invitation to utter a rude word. If there is
anything similar in the woodchuck one I'm whooshed.

[Adam Funk]

Whereas IME dead skunks lie in the middle of the road so they can
"infuse" your car's ventilation system more effectively.


--
Ambassador Trentino: "I am willing to do anything to prevent this
war."
President Firefly: "It's too late. I've already paid a month's
rent on the battlefield." _Duck Soup_

[Ken Blake]

On 11/30/2020 7:57 AM, Adam Funk wrote:
> On 2020-11-30, Ken Blake wrote:
>
>> On 11/29/2020 7:11 PM, Peter Moylan wrote:
>>> On 29/11/20 22:25, Adam Funk wrote:
>>>> On 2020-11-28, Peter Moylan wrote:
>>>
>>>>> Of course "chuck" is OK when the context suggests that it's about
>>>>> throwing something else. When talking about woodchucks, for
>>>>> example. I would just avoid it in reference to food.
>>>>
>>>> Have woodchucks been imported into Australia now, & is throwing them
>>>> a sport?
>>>
>>> The animal itself has not made it to Australia, but the tongue twister
>>> arrived here a long time ago.
>>>
>>> It is repeated so mindlessly that it never occurs to us to ask what a
>>> woodchuck might be.
>>
>>
>> It's a dead animal lying on the road.
>
> Whereas IME dead skunks lie in the middle of the road so they can
> "infuse" your car's ventilation system more effectively.

Yes, I've seen a lot of those too. Also dogs, coyotes, and deer.


--
Ken

[Peter T. Daniels]

On Monday, November 30, 2020 at 4:15:08 AM UTC-5, Adam Funk wrote:
> On 2020-11-30, Peter Moylan wrote:
> > On 29/11/20 22:25, Adam Funk wrote:
> >> On 2020-11-28, Peter Moylan wrote:

> >>> Of course "chuck" is OK when the context suggests that it's about
> >>> throwing something else. When talking about woodchucks, for
> >>> example. I would just avoid it in reference to food.
> >> Have woodchucks been imported into Australia now, & is throwing them
> >> a sport?
> > The animal itself has not made it to Australia, but the tongue twister
> > arrived here a long time ago.
> > It is repeated so mindlessly that it never occurs to us to ask what a
> > woodchuck might be. In fact, it wasn't until in the middle of writing
> > this reply that I finally googled it and realised why somebody upthread
> > made an association between groundhog and ground chuck.
>
> How much ground would a groundhog hog...?

A lot. They're big! A few years ago there was one wandering around the
fenced lawn just south of me -- buildings haven't been built directly on
top of the railroad tunnel, particularly nosing about the tree trunk in the
middle. It was a good distance from the fence, and didn't mind being
stared at by the passersby who paused. But it was quite smelly! (Not
like skunk.) I'm not surprised that de Blasio dropped Staten Island Bob
or whatever that one was called during his first Groundhog Day photo
op in 2014.

[Jerry Friedman]

On Monday, November 30, 2020 at 3:10:43 AM UTC-7, Athel Cornish-Bowden wrote:
> On 2020-11-30 02:11:40 +0000, Peter Moylan said:
>
> > On 29/11/20 22:25, Adam Funk wrote:
> >> On 2020-11-28, Peter Moylan wrote:
> >
> >>> Of course "chuck" is OK when the context suggests that it's about
> >>> throwing something else. When talking about woodchucks, for
> >>> example. I would just avoid it in reference to food.
> >>
> >> Have woodchucks been imported into Australia now, & is throwing them
> >> a sport?
> >
> > The animal itself has not made it to Australia, but the tongue twister
> > arrived here a long time ago.
> As tongue twisters go it's about the easiest to say.

...

I always thought of it as a rhyme that was fun to say, not a
tongue-twister.

--
Jerry Friedman

[Ken Blake]

Same here, although it wasn't much fun to me.


--
Ken

[Peter Moylan]

We call that a kangaroo.

Except in Tasmania, which has no kangaroos. Its roads are decorated with
dead devils.

On a drive to Victoria a few years ago I noticed a surprisingly large
number of dead foxes on the freeway. Before that, I had thought of a fox
as an animal one rarely sees in this country.

[Athel Cornish-Bowden]

+1

[Adam Funk]

On 2020-11-30, Peter T. Daniels wrote:

> On Monday, November 30, 2020 at 4:15:08 AM UTC-5, Adam Funk wrote:
>> On 2020-11-30, Peter Moylan wrote:
>> > On 29/11/20 22:25, Adam Funk wrote:
>> >> On 2020-11-28, Peter Moylan wrote:
>
>> >>> Of course "chuck" is OK when the context suggests that it's about
>> >>> throwing something else. When talking about woodchucks, for
>> >>> example. I would just avoid it in reference to food.
>> >> Have woodchucks been imported into Australia now, & is throwing them
>> >> a sport?
>> > The animal itself has not made it to Australia, but the tongue twister
>> > arrived here a long time ago.
>> > It is repeated so mindlessly that it never occurs to us to ask what a
>> > woodchuck might be. In fact, it wasn't until in the middle of writing
>> > this reply that I finally googled it and realised why somebody upthread
>> > made an association between groundhog and ground chuck.
>>
>> How much ground would a groundhog hog...?
>
> A lot. They're big!

and damaging to lawns

> A few years ago there was one wandering around the
> fenced lawn just south of me -- buildings haven't been built directly on
> top of the railroad tunnel, particularly nosing about the tree trunk in the
> middle. It was a good distance from the fence, and didn't mind being
> stared at by the passersby who paused. But it was quite smelly! (Not
> like skunk.) I'm not surprised that de Blasio dropped Staten Island Bob
> or whatever that one was called during his first Groundhog Day photo
> op in 2014.

I don't think I've been close enough to a groundhog to notice the
smell, but I've smelled skunk blast drifting on the wind from the
woods without ever seeing the source (I presume another woodland
critter irritated the skunk).


--
In the fall when plants return, by harvest time, she knows the score,
ripe and ready to the eye, but rotten somehow to the core.

[Tony Cooper]

On 1 Dec 2020 19:37:36 GMT, r...@zedat.fu-berlin.de (Stefan Ram) wrote:

>charles <cha...@candehope.me.uk> writes:
>>obviously a pondial difference, we mince beef (usually) or other meats. My
>>wife regularly buys it from the butcher.
>

> BrE "mince(peter)" is AmE "chopper".
>
No, if I understand the BrE meaning of "mince", then the AmE version
would be "meat grinder".

https://tinyurl.com/yxckj8gd or


https://www.homedepot.com/pep/Chard-Chard-8-Silver-Cast-Iron-Hand-Meat-Grinder-HG8/206797886?source=shoppingads&locale=en-US&mtc=Shopping-BA-F_HDH-G-D29B-29_28_SMALL_ELECTRICS-MULTI-NA-Feed-PLA-NA-NA-Mixers_Slicers&cm_mmc=Shopping-BA-F_HDH-G-D29B-29_28_SMALL_ELECTRICS-MULTI-NA-Feed-PLA-NA-NA-Mixers_Slicers-71700000048833954-58700005310601551-92700047118403811&gclid=CjwKCAiA8Jf-BRB-EiwAWDtEGjPSDBYWWOqnajaWo53oaKIE50KprkH0zFENa149qP_9duExo9yHkBoC1jcQAvD_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds

We used to have one like this, but it's long-since been discarded. If
my wife wants ground beef, she buys it ground by the butcher at the
supermarket.

--

Tony Cooper Orlando Florida

[Ken Blake]

When I grind meat myself, I do it in our Cuisinart food processor. I
don't like to do it myself, though. It's extra trouble to do and extra
trouble to clean. I also usually buy it at the supermarket, but I don't
use that pre-ground beef to make hamburgers.


--
Ken

[semir...@my-deja.com]

liuyur... wrote:

>Hi, I'm wondering whether the term "minced pork rice" is a natural
>English expression, or it has a foreign feel to it.

No, it not natural.
It might perhaps be found in a cookery book describing a dish from Taiwan .

Is this a dish which is common where you are?

In the UK you can buy the main ingredients as
Pork Mince and Long Grain Rice but there is no well known dish which combines them.

[semir...@my-deja.com]

Yurui Liu wrote:
>RH Draney 寫道：

>>Yurui Liu wrote:

>>>I'm wondering whether the term "minced pork rice" is a natural
>>>English expression, or it has a foreign feel to it.

>>"Minced" in any context is foreign to AmE ears...(that said, I may very
>>well be about to fix myself a dish of something that your expression
>>would described very nicely)....r

>Replace "minced" with "braised." Does "braised pork rice" sound un-English
>to you?

Still unknown.

Suddenly I find I am replying to a very old thread. Apologies

[Athel Cornish-Bowden]

Yes, but it reminds me that we don't have any news of Ron Draney. Anyone know?

Bill Van seems to be absent without leave as well.

[CDB]

On 3/23/2021 1:17 PM, Athel Cornish-Bowden wrote:
> semir...@my-deja.com said:
>> Yurui Liu wrote:
>>> RH Draney 寫道：
>>>> Yurui Liu wrote:

>>>>> I'm wondering whether the term "minced pork rice" is a
>>>>> natural>>>English expression, or it has a foreign feel to
>>>>> it.
>>>> "Minced" in any context is foreign to AmE ears...(that said, I
>>>> may very>>well be about to fix myself a dish of something that
>>>> your expression>>would described very nicely)....r

>>> Replace "minced" with "braised." Does "braised pork rice" sound
>>> un-English>to you?

>> Still unknown.

>> Suddenly I find I am replying to a very old thread. Apologies

> Yes, but it reminds me that we don't have any news of Ron Draney.
> Anyone know?

> Bill Van seems to be absent without leave as well.

Yes. I have tried looking around a bit. There are many hits for
"William Boei" (fide Mark B), but that's not surprising: all articles
with his byline, none recent that I saw.

Searching "ron draney mensa" brings up a puzzle that he sert for that
group, dated March 14. No sad personal news that I could find.

I hope they haven't been driven away by the squabbling, like other
valued regulars.

[CDB]

On 3/23/2021 12:55 PM, semir...@my-deja.com wrote:
> Yurui Liu wrote:
>> RH Draney 寫道：
>>> Yurui Liu wrote:

>>>> I'm wondering whether the term "minced pork rice" is a natural
>>>> English expression, or it has a foreign feel to it.

>>> "Minced" in any context is foreign to AmE ears...(that said, I
>>> may very well be about to fix myself a dish of something that
>>> your expression would described very nicely)....r

>> Replace "minced" with "braised." Does "braised pork rice" sound
>> un-English to you?

> Still unknown.

The natural expresssion (if it wasn't "Rice a la Yurui" or some such)
would be "braised/minced pork with rice", or possibly the same in
reverse order, with the rice listed first. Consider the well-known
Spanish dish "arroz con pollo", rice with chicken.

> Suddenly I find I am replying to a very old thread. Apologies

You also find yourself leaving all dates out of the attribution block.
How come?

[J. J. Lodder]

Athel Cornish-Bowden <acor...@imm.cnrs.fr> wrote:

> On 2021-03-23 16:55:16 +0000, semir...@my-deja.com said:
>
> > Yurui Liu wrote:

> >> RH Draney ???

> >>> Yurui Liu wrote:
> >>>> I'm wondering whether the term "minced pork rice" is a
> >>>> natural>>>English expression, or it has a foreign feel to it.
> >>> "Minced" in any context is foreign to AmE ears...(that said, I may
> >>> very>>well be about to fix myself a dish of something that your
> >>> expression>>would described very nicely)....r
> >
> >> Replace "minced" with "braised." Does "braised pork rice" sound
> >> un-English>to you?
> >
> > Still unknown.
> >
> > Suddenly I find I am replying to a very old thread. Apologies
>
> Yes, but it reminds me that we don't have any news of Ron Draney. Anyone know?
>
> Bill Van seems to be absent without leave as well.

Yes, another bad case, I'm afraid.
Continuous posting, several postings each day, for many years,
until seven postings on Jan 17, then nothing,

Jan

[J. J. Lodder]

CDB <belle...@gmail.com> wrote:

> On 3/23/2021 1:17 PM, Athel Cornish-Bowden wrote:
> > semir...@my-deja.com said:
> >> Yurui Liu wrote:

> >>> RH Draney ???

> >>>> Yurui Liu wrote:
>
> >>>>> I'm wondering whether the term "minced pork rice" is a
> >>>>> natural>>>English expression, or it has a foreign feel to
> >>>>> it.
> >>>> "Minced" in any context is foreign to AmE ears...(that said, I
> >>>> may very>>well be about to fix myself a dish of something that
> >>>> your expression>>would described very nicely)....r
>
> >>> Replace "minced" with "braised." Does "braised pork rice" sound
> >>> un-English>to you?
>
> >> Still unknown.
>
> >> Suddenly I find I am replying to a very old thread. Apologies
>
> > Yes, but it reminds me that we don't have any news of Ron Draney.
> > Anyone know?
>
> > Bill Van seems to be absent without leave as well.
>
> Yes. I have tried looking around a bit. There are many hits for
> "William Boei" (fide Mark B), but that's not surprising: all articles
> with his byline, none recent that I saw.

Bill van and Mark Brader are not on speaking terms afaik because
1) Brader uses his full name, despite his protests
that he doesn't want it used on usenet.
2) Brader has his full name wrong.

Bill Van is right of course, this is against nettiquette.
Chosen nyms should be respected on usenet,

Jan

[J. J. Lodder]

semir...@my-deja.com <semir...@my-deja.com> wrote:

> Yurui Liu wrote:

> >RH Draney ???

Nothing wrong with that,

Jan

[Snidely]

Remember when Athel Cornish-Bowden bragged outrageously? That was
Tuesday:

2 MIAs in this group. TONG had a confirmed final departure earlier
this month (not someone known in AUE).

/dps

--
As a colleague once told me about an incoming manager,
"He does very well in a suck-up, kick-down culture."
Bill in Vancouver

[Lewis]

In message <s3di4i$8n4$1...@gioia.aioe.org> CDB <belle...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On 3/23/2021 12:55 PM, semir...@my-deja.com wrote:
>> Yurui Liu wrote:
>>> RH Draney 寫道：
>>>> Yurui Liu wrote:

>>>>> I'm wondering whether the term "minced pork rice" is a natural
>>>>> English expression, or it has a foreign feel to it.

>>>> "Minced" in any context is foreign to AmE ears...(that said, I
>>>> may very well be about to fix myself a dish of something that
>>>> your expression would described very nicely)....r

>>> Replace "minced" with "braised." Does "braised pork rice" sound
>>> un-English to you?

>> Still unknown.

> The natural expresssion (if it wasn't "Rice a la Yurui" or some such)
> would be "braised/minced pork with rice", or possibly the same in
> reverse order, with the rice listed first. Consider the well-known
> Spanish dish "arroz con pollo", rice with chicken.

I would translate "arroz con pollo" as "chicken and rice", not as "rice
with chicken" because we do not say thing like "rice with chicken".

>> Suddenly I find I am replying to a very old thread. Apologies

> You also find yourself leaving all dates out of the attribution block.
> How come?

Isn't that a "feature" of using GG?

--
A long chess match
(The Seventh Seal)

[Chrysi Cat]

On 3/23/2021 6:08 PM, Lewis wrote:
> In message <s3di4i$8n4$1...@gioia.aioe.org> CDB <belle...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On 3/23/2021 12:55 PM, semir...@my-deja.com wrote:
>>> Yurui Liu wrote:
>>>> RH Draney 寫道：
>>>>> Yurui Liu wrote:
>
>>>>>> I'm wondering whether the term "minced pork rice" is a natural
>>>>>> English expression, or it has a foreign feel to it.
>
>>>>> "Minced" in any context is foreign to AmE ears...(that said, I
>>>>> may very well be about to fix myself a dish of something that
>>>>> your expression would described very nicely)....r
>
>>>> Replace "minced" with "braised." Does "braised pork rice" sound
>>>> un-English to you?
>
>>> Still unknown.
>
>> The natural expresssion (if it wasn't "Rice a la Yurui" or some such)
>> would be "braised/minced pork with rice", or possibly the same in
>> reverse order, with the rice listed first. Consider the well-known
>> Spanish dish "arroz con pollo", rice with chicken.
>
> I would translate "arroz con pollo" as "chicken and rice", not as "rice
> with chicken" because we do not say thing like "rice with chicken".
>

Do you mean "native Spanish-speakers"?

Because as far as English goes:

I think I'm in your COUNTY, and definitely in your state, and I've said
"rice with chicken"; that MAY be a family usage, but the last relative
of mine to speak anything other than English as a first language was
born in 1916 and never spoke anything other than English after 1927.
I've also said that a dish should more accurately be referred to as
"pollo con arroz"--that's up at Casa Mariachi, if you're interested in
checking it out--because I hold to the idea Consumers Union supported in
the 80s and 90s of a dish that's "x WITH y" having more "x" than "y" and
they seemed to put the de-boned pieces of a whole chicken in.

Then again, my family also served creamed shrimp with rice, rather than
creamed shrimp /and/ rice, though if the same creamed shrimp were over
deviled eggs with a little curry powder, that WAS "shrimp and curried egg".

Or are we going in the direction of "never put the starch before the meat"?

.
>>> Suddenly I find I am replying to a very old thread. Apologies
>
>> You also find yourself leaving all dates out of the attribution block.
>> How come?
>
> Isn't that a "feature" of using GG?
>


--

Chrysi Cat
1/2 anthrocat, nearly 1/2 anthrofox, all magical
Transgoddess, quick to anger. [she/her. Misgender and die].
Call me Chrysi or call me Kat, I'll respond to either!

[Peter Moylan]

I've just picked this line from a randomly selected PTD post.

<quote>
On Wednesday, March 17, 2021 at 6:24:07 AM UTC-4, J. J. Lodder wrote:
</quote>

That tells me that it has to be configurable. Presumably there's a help
file somewhere that tells you how to configure it.

Looking at my own attribution line, I see that it could be improved to
make it a bit more international. I've forgotten how to do it in
Thunderbird, but it's probably in one of those numerous configuration
options that you can't get to unless you're willing to go past the "This
will void your warranty" warning.

--
Peter Moylan Newcastle, NSW http://www.pmoylan.org

[Lewis]

In message <Ydw6I.16245$fe7....@fx14.iad> Chrysi Cat <chry...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On 3/23/2021 6:08 PM, Lewis wrote:
>> In message <s3di4i$8n4$1...@gioia.aioe.org> CDB <belle...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> On 3/23/2021 12:55 PM, semir...@my-deja.com wrote:
>>>> Yurui Liu wrote:
>>>>> RH Draney 寫道：
>>>>>> Yurui Liu wrote:
>>
>>>>>>> I'm wondering whether the term "minced pork rice" is a natural
>>>>>>> English expression, or it has a foreign feel to it.
>>
>>>>>> "Minced" in any context is foreign to AmE ears...(that said, I
>>>>>> may very well be about to fix myself a dish of something that
>>>>>> your expression would described very nicely)....r
>>
>>>>> Replace "minced" with "braised." Does "braised pork rice" sound
>>>>> un-English to you?
>>
>>>> Still unknown.
>>
>>> The natural expresssion (if it wasn't "Rice a la Yurui" or some such)
>>> would be "braised/minced pork with rice", or possibly the same in
>>> reverse order, with the rice listed first. Consider the well-known
>>> Spanish dish "arroz con pollo", rice with chicken.
>>
>> I would translate "arroz con pollo" as "chicken and rice", not as "rice
>> with chicken" because we do not say thing like "rice with chicken".
>>

> Do you mean "native Spanish-speakers"?

No, in general AmE the normal form is Chicken and rice if producing
a dish that contains both rice and chicken. "Rice with Chicken" or
"Chicken with rice" would be two dishes, one rice, one chicken.
Separate, or at least something like chicken place on rice.

> Because as far as English goes:

> I've also said that a dish should more accurately be referred to as
> "pollo con arroz"

Yes, I would agree with that, but that is not what I was commenting on.

> Then again, my family also served creamed shrimp with rice, rather than
> creamed shrimp /and/ rice, though if the same creamed shrimp were over
> deviled eggs with a little curry powder, that WAS "shrimp and curried egg".

There you go. AND is used when you are adding two dishes together, with
is when the dish is prepared with two ingredients.

--
Don't congratulate yourself too much, or berate yourself either. Your
choices are half chance; so are everybody else's.

[CDB]

On 3/23/2021 8:08 PM, Lewis wrote:

> CDB <belle...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> semir...@my-deja.com wrote:
>>> Yurui Liu wrote:
>>>> RH Draney 寫道：
>>>>> Yurui Liu wrote:

>>>>>> I'm wondering whether the term "minced pork rice" is a
>>>>>> natural English expression, or it has a foreign feel to
>>>>>> it.

>>>>> "Minced" in any context is foreign to AmE ears...(that said,
>>>>> I may very well be about to fix myself a dish of something
>>>>> that your expression would described very nicely)....r

>>>> Replace "minced" with "braised." Does "braised pork rice"
>>>> sound un-English to you?

>>> Still unknown.

>> The natural expresssion (if it wasn't "Rice a la Yurui" or some
>> such) would be "braised/minced pork with rice", or possibly the
>> same in reverse order, with the rice listed first. Consider the
>> well-known Spanish dish "arroz con pollo", rice with chicken.

> I would translate "arroz con pollo" as "chicken and rice", not as
> "rice with chicken" because we do not say thing like "rice with
> chicken".

I decided not to get into it*, but labelling rules in Canada would
require that, if there was more rice than chicken.

>>> Suddenly I find I am replying to a very old thread. Apologies

>> You also find yourself leaving all dates out of the attribution
>> block. How come?

> Isn't that a "feature" of using GG?

Damfino.

--
*Will you join me in a dish of arroz con pollo? Etcetera.

[CDB]

On 3/23/2021 4:44 PM, J. J. Lodder wrote:

It seems to be the one he signed his articles with.

Anyway, I wasn't referring to Mark. He is far too magisterial to squabble.

>
> Bill Van is right of course, this is against nettiquette. Chosen
> nyms should be respected on usenet,

I do agree. In seaching for him on the internet, though, the RL name is
more useful.

[Ken Blake]

Do they use boats on GG?


--
Ken

[CDB]

On 3/24/2021 11:08 AM, Ken Blake wrote:

see previous answer, Buster.