Where does the term "Gee-Gee's" come from?
Mark Chynoweth
As a long time reader/viewer of British (English?) who-done-it's, I
have always wondered about the use of the term "Gee-Gee" to refer to
a horse. Going to the horse races is invariably described as going
to the Gee-Gee's.
Can someone explain the origination of the term Gee-Gee?
By the way, I asked two ex-Brit's at work to explain the term. Neither
could. One speculated that it was Indian in origin, the other suggested
that it originated in the Victoria era.
Comments?
--Mark Chynoweth
Richard Fontana
> As a long time reader/viewer of British (English?) who-done-it's, I
> have always wondered about the use of the term "Gee-Gee" to refer to
> a horse. Going to the horse races is invariably described as going
> to the Gee-Gee's.
>
> Can someone explain the origination of the term Gee-Gee?
NSOED defines "gee-gee" as "nursery & colloq. A horse". [M19] "Gee" is
also given as a word for horse. They derive from or are otherwise
related to the interjection "gee!" [E17], "A word of command used to a
horse etc.: go on, go faster, occas. turn to the right". There are a
number of variants, such as "gee-up!", "gee-hup!" [M18], and "gee-ho!"
[M17], all of them beginning with the /dZ/ sound. Perhaps these are
primarily rightpondian words. They would appear to be unrelated to the
more familiar (to me) and perhaps more recent "giddup!", "giddap!",
"giddy-up!", which derive from "get up!" and begin with the /g/ sound.
RF
N.Mitchum
-----
> Can someone explain the origination of the term Gee-Gee?
>
> could. One speculated that it was Indian in origin, the other suggested
> that it originated in the Victoria era.
An American dictionary lists it as British slang. The OED gives
"gee" as "originally a child's word" for horse, and "gee-gee" as a
simple reduplication of "gee." There's no explanation of why
children should use either word for a horse.
----NM
Evan Kirshenbaum
> On 22 May 1999, Mark Chynoweth wrote:
>
> > As a long time reader/viewer of British (English?) who-done-it's, I
> > have always wondered about the use of the term "Gee-Gee" to refer to
> > a horse. Going to the horse races is invariably described as going
> > to the Gee-Gee's.
> >
> > Can someone explain the origination of the term Gee-Gee?
>
> NSOED defines "gee-gee" as "nursery & colloq. A horse". [M19] "Gee" is
> also given as a word for horse. They derive from or are otherwise
> related to the interjection "gee!" [E17], "A word of command used to a
> horse etc.: go on, go faster, occas. turn to the right".
It's interesting that NSOED notes that as "occas.". MWCD10 describes
it as "used as a direction to turn to the right or move ahead" and
contrasts it with "haw" which is a command to turn to the left.
> There are a number of variants, such as "gee-up!", "gee-hup!" [M18],
> and "gee-ho!" [M17], all of them beginning with the /dZ/ sound.
> Perhaps these are primarily rightpondian words. They would appear
> to be unrelated to the more familiar (to me) and perhaps more recent
> "giddup!", "giddap!", "giddy-up!", which derive from "get up!" and
> begin with the /g/ sound.
I had always assumed that the ur-phrase was "get ye up", which would
be a plausible source for both "giddy-up" and "gee-up". MWCD10 does
date the former only to 1897, though.
--
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| Bergen Evans
geoff butler
>
>As a long time reader/viewer of British (English?) who-done-it's, I
>have always wondered about the use of the term "Gee-Gee" to refer to
>a horse. Going to the horse races is invariably described as going
>to the Gee-Gee's.
I think that "invariably" is putting it just a little strongly.
-ler
Reinhold (Rey) Aman
> Richard Fontana <re...@columbia.edu> writes:
[snip]
> > NSOED defines "gee-gee" as "nursery & colloq. A horse". [M19] "Gee" is
> > also given as a word for horse. They derive from or are otherwise
> > related to the interjection "gee!" [E17], "A word of command used to a
> > horse etc.: go on, go faster, occas. turn to the right".
> It's interesting that NSOED notes that as "occas.". MWCD10 describes
> it as "used as a direction to turn to the right or move ahead" and
> contrasts it with "haw" which is a command to turn to the left.
Telling a Bavarian horse to turn right with the command "Gee!" or
left with "Haw!" would get you nowhere. The commands understood by
Bavarian draft animals (horses, cows, oxen) are "Wista!" = Turn left!
and "Hott!" = Turn right!
Some of my cats are bilingual. They understand certain commands
and words in English and Bavarian. The Police Dept in Rohnert Park
(near Santa Rosa) wished *their* new super police dog imported from
Belgium and trained in Flemish/Dutch also were bilingual. After he
first got here, he had no idea what the Yank cops were telling him to
do. When ordered to do something like "Search!", he understood
something like "Zit op!" and jumped up on a bed and just sat there,
eagerly waiting for the next command. Luckily, one of the R.P. cops
knew some Dutch. They called him to the scene to get the dog off the
bed and on the trail of the criminal.
All Bavarian dogs are trilingual. In addition to Bavarian, they
also understand certain French and Latin terms. The command "Lie down
and hold still!" is "Kusch!" (from French _coucher_, "to lie down").
[If I ever get a dog again, I'll name him "Hindu"; if you know your
geography, you know why.] When really pissed off about what a dog did
and you want him (or her) to beat it with his (or her) tail between the
legs, you yell at the dog "GruzeFIX!" (from Late Latin _crucifixus_,
"crucified").
--
Reinhold (Rey) Aman
Editor & Publisher, MALEDICTA
Santa Rosa, CA 95402, USA
http://www.sonic.net/maledicta/
a1a5...@bc.sympatico.ca
Batmagoo) wrote:
>In article <37471A...@lafn.org>, N.Mitchum writes:
>
>> An American dictionary lists it as British slang. The OED gives
>> "gee" as "originally a child's word" for horse, and "gee-gee" as a
>> simple reduplication of "gee." There's no explanation of why
>> children should use either word for a horse.
>
>The explanation seems obvious to me, so I'm probably wrong.
>
>In the days when horses were as common as cars are now, and used as draft
>animals (as well as for leisurely riding, I suppose), what sound would
>a child hear when observing the horses at work? Answer: The driver's
>"Gee" and "Haw". He keeps calling the horse that, doesn't he?
>
>Why do children call a dog a "bow-wow"? Because that's what they hear.
>--
>Orne Batmagoo
The "older word", 'ree', might be assumed -- without stretching
it much -- to come from 'right' (often pronounced 'reet' in
various dialects), but where does 'heyte' or 'haw' for the
command "left" come from? The OED is silent as far as I can
tell. Talking to gee-gees is not a scholarly occupation I
suppose.
Orne Batmagoo
Evan Kirshenbaum
> Why do children call a dog a "bow-wow"? Because that's what they
> hear.
Only, of course, if they listen to English-speaking dogs. When it
comes to animal sounds, kids hear what adults (and older kids) tell
them they hear.
--
Evan Kirshenbaum +------------------------------------
HP Laboratories |There are just two rules of
1501 Page Mill Road, Building 1U |governance in a free society: Mind
Palo Alto, CA 94304 |your own business. Keep your hands
|to yourself.
kirsh...@hpl.hp.com | P.J. O'Rourke
(650)857-7572
Orne Batmagoo
> r...@darkstar.uwsa.edu (Orne Batmagoo) writes:
>
>> Why do children call a dog a "bow-wow"? Because that's what they
>> hear.
>
> Only, of course, if they listen to English-speaking dogs. When it
> comes to animal sounds, kids hear what adults (and older kids) tell
> them they hear.
Yes, of course. I should have appended "from their older siblings, who talk
baby-talk down to them." Still, it seems clear why a horse is a "gee-gee"
But since horses are not so common as they once were, this "obvious"
knowledge is disappearing, along with knowlege of the reason Dalmations
are associated with fire trucks, or why that panel full of dials in my
car is called a dashboard. Or, for that matter, why we _drive_ cars.
--
Orne Batmagoo
Evan Kirshenbaum
> In article <v9hbtf6...@garrett.hpl.hp.com>, Evan Kirshenbaum
> writes:
> > r...@darkstar.uwsa.edu (Orne Batmagoo) writes:
> >
> >> Why do children call a dog a "bow-wow"? Because that's what they
> >> hear.
> >
> > Only, of course, if they listen to English-speaking dogs. When it
> > comes to animal sounds, kids hear what adults (and older kids) tell
> > them they hear.
>
> Yes, of course. I should have appended "from their older siblings,
> who talk baby-talk down to them." Still, it seems clear why a horse
> is a "gee-gee"
Sorry, I thought you meant "from the dogs", an opinion I've heard put
forth seriously more than once.
> But since horses are not so common as they once were, this "obvious"
> knowledge is disappearing, along with knowlege of the reason
> Dalmations are associated with fire trucks, or why that panel full
> of dials in my car is called a dashboard. Or, for that matter, why
> we _drive_ cars.
I got all of those except for the one about the dalmations. Did kids
previously know why dalmations were associated with fire trucks (a
genetic predisposition to deafness, IIRC, leading to them being good
pets/mascots since they didn't freak out at the noise of the siren/
bells/alarms)? Or did you mean that dalmations are no longer adopted
as mascots? I'm pretty sure that that's not the case, but I could be
wrong.
--
Evan Kirshenbaum +------------------------------------
HP Laboratories |When correctly viewed,
1501 Page Mill Road, Building 1U | Everything is lewd.
Palo Alto, CA 94304 |I could tell you things
| about Peter Pan,
kirsh...@hpl.hp.com |and the Wizard of Oz--
(650)857-7572 | there's a dirty old man!
| Tom Lehrer
Skitt
Evan Kirshenbaum <ev...@garrett.hpl.hp.com> wrote in message
news:v9h90aa...@garrett.hpl.hp.com...
> r...@darkstar.uwsa.edu (Orne Batmagoo) writes:
>
> > But since horses are not so common as they once were, this "obvious"
> > knowledge is disappearing, along with knowlege of the reason
> > Dalmations are associated with fire trucks, or why that panel full
> > of dials in my car is called a dashboard. Or, for that matter, why
> > we _drive_ cars.
>
> I got all of those except for the one about the dalmations. Did kids
> previously know why dalmations were associated with fire trucks (a
> genetic predisposition to deafness, IIRC, leading to them being good
> pets/mascots since they didn't freak out at the noise of the siren/
> bells/alarms)? Or did you mean that dalmations are no longer adopted
> as mascots? I'm pretty sure that that's not the case, but I could be
> wrong.
Now that two of you are doing it, may I point out that you are misspelling
Dalmatian (capitalization optional). Not that you don't have company. I
just didn't expect if from Evan.
Not to be confused with accordions, of course. I'm ignoring Orne's other
inconsistency above.
--
Skitt http://i.am/skitt/
Central Florida CAUTION: My veracity is under limited warranty
Orne Batmagoo
>
> Evan Kirshenbaum <ev...@garrett.hpl.hp.com> wrote in message
> news:v9h90aa...@garrett.hpl.hp.com...
>> I got all of those except for the one about the dalmations. Did kids
>> previously know why dalmations were associated with fire trucks (a
>> genetic predisposition to deafness, IIRC, leading to them being good
>> pets/mascots since they didn't freak out at the noise of the siren/
>> bells/alarms)? Or did you mean that dalmations are no longer adopted
>> as mascots? I'm pretty sure that that's not the case, but I could be
>> wrong.
That's no mascot, it's a worker. A pet is a mere luxury, and a work dog
is not a pet.
> Now that two of you are doing it, may I point out that you are misspelling
> Dalmatian (capitalization optional). Not that you don't have company. I
> just didn't expect if from Evan.
Thanks, Skitt, I needed that.
Imagine that it's a hundred years ago, and a fire has broken out across town.
You've got these huge draft horses hauling a heavy tank of water, at a gallop. You
You want them to turn right at the next street, but you don't want to lose
any more momentum than you have to. You can yell at the horses and tug on
the reins, which you will certainly be doing, but those... spotted firehouse
dogs... have also been trained. Trained to respond to your shouts, and, as
they run fearlessly alongside the larger animals, to "encourage" them to go
the right way, even at that high speed. It's herding, of a sort, although
there are breeds better suited to herding. But those breeds do their work
under somewhat more pastoral conditions, at a walk, not amidst chaos: It's
exactly the single-minded, cool-head-under-pressure devotion to duty that is
the Dalmatian's value as a _work_ animal.
Without these dogs "nipping at their heels", the horses are more likely to
panic amid all the noise and confusion, or at least become more difficult to
control. The firehouse dog's real purpose is to keep the horses calm.
I didn't know that Dalmatians have a genetic predispostion to deafness. (Now
I wonder if that was deliberately bred into them.) I only happened to know
how they were actually employed back in the days when people -- and other
species -- used to have to work for a living.
> Not to be confused with accordions, of course. I'm ignoring Orne's other
> inconsistency above.
I can easily be confused with accordions, or with other musical instruments.
Gratuitous sax and violins are usually the most effective, though.
--
Orne Batmagoo
Evan Kirshenbaum
> In article <7im0tc$6a...@svlss.lmms.lmco.com>, "Skitt" writes:
> >
> > Evan Kirshenbaum <ev...@garrett.hpl.hp.com> wrote in message
> > news:v9h90aa...@garrett.hpl.hp.com...
>
> >> I got all of those except for the one about the dalmations. Did
> >> kids previously know why dalmations were associated with fire
> >> trucks (a genetic predisposition to deafness, IIRC, leading to
> >> them being good pets/mascots since they didn't freak out at the
> >> noise of the siren/ bells/alarms)? Or did you mean that
> >> dalmations are no longer adopted as mascots? I'm pretty sure
> >> that that's not the case, but I could be wrong.
>
> That's no mascot, it's a worker. A pet is a mere luxury, and a work
> dog is not a pet.
>
> > Now that two of you are doing it, may I point out that you are
> > misspelling Dalmatian (capitalization optional). Not that you
> > don't have company. I just didn't expect if from Evan.
Ouch. Sorry. I'll plead interference from the earlier
misspelling. :-)
> Imagine that it's a hundred years ago, and a fire has broken out
> across town. You've got these huge draft horses hauling a heavy
> tank of water, at a gallop. You
[snip story of Dalmatians being used to herd the horses that pull the
fire trucks.]
> Without these dogs "nipping at their heels", the horses are more
> likely to panic amid all the noise and confusion, or at least become
> more difficult to control. The firehouse dog's real purpose is to
> keep the horses calm.
I did not know that.
> I didn't know that Dalmatians have a genetic predispostion to
> deafness. (Now I wonder if that was deliberately bred into them.)
I don't believe so, but it would certainly help explain the choice and
why they would tend to stay relatively calmer in situations that would
make other dogs panic. According to a web page I found, 8% of
Dalmatians are born totally deaf, and another 22% are born deaf in one
ear. Presumably, if you are shouting commands at them, you don't
want the totally deaf ones, but if you want one to ride on the (now-
self-propelled) fire engine with siren blaring and bells ringing, a
totally deaf one might be just what you want.
--
Evan Kirshenbaum +------------------------------------
HP Laboratories |A burro is an ass. A burrow is a
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|know the difference.
kirsh...@hpl.hp.com | UPI Stylebook
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John O'Flaherty
> r...@darkstar.uwsa.edu (Orne Batmagoo) writes:
>
> > Why do children call a dog a "bow-wow"? Because that's what they
> > hear.
>
> Only, of course, if they listen to English-speaking dogs. When it
> comes to animal sounds, kids hear what adults (and older kids) tell
> them they hear.
>
> --
> Evan Kirshenbaum +------------------------------------
> HP Laboratories |There are just two rules of
> 1501 Page Mill Road, Building 1U |governance in a free society: Mind
> Palo Alto, CA 94304 |your own business. Keep your hands
> |to yourself.
> kirsh...@hpl.hp.com | P.J. O'Rourke
> (650)857-7572
>
> http://www.hpl.hp.com/personal/Evan_Kirshenbaum/
That reminds me of a Far Side cartoon, in which a man was walking down the
street wearing a helmet labeled, 'Universal Dog Language Translator'. In the
fenced yards surrounding the street were several dogs, all with balloons saying
'Hey!'.
john
Rodney Randles
Ross Clark
seems lost. With all respect to Henry Gee, this recent proposal is
unlikely. He didn't invent horses, after all.
OED connects it with gee "a word of command to a horse, variously (in
different localities) used to direct it to turn to the right, to go
forward, or to move faster" (from 1628). "Gee" and "gee-gee" as
(originally children's) words for "horse" appear in the latter part of
the 19th century.
bil...@shaw.ca
called the Gee-Gees. Etymology, from Wikipedia:
Similar to many older institutions, their teams were long referred to by the school's colours as the Garnet and Grey (French: Grenat et Gris). Eventually, members of the media began to refer to the teams simply as the ‘GGs’, providing a nickname in both English and French for the bilingual school's teams. The nickname stuck and would eventually be combined with a horse racing term (where a gee-gee is the first horse out of the starting gate) to create the current Gee-Gees team name.[3]
bill
bil...@shaw.ca
Kerr-Mudd,John
[]
>> It's worth nothing that the University of Ottawa's sports teams are
>> called the Gee-Gees. Etymology, from Wikipedia:
>
> Ahem. I meant to type "It's worth noting". Badfingers.
It's all over now. #
>
--
Bah, and indeed, Humbug.
CDB
> Ross wrote:
have the Ottawa Senators too.
Their logo seems to agree with you, though.
https://preview.tinyurl.com/y6p37hht
Jerry Friedman
--
Jerry Friedman
Snidely
this is close:
<URL:https://www.bing.com/images/search?view=detailV2&ccid=fex1ydOo&id=4E766C56E1CE02D32C557492979BCC0F4AF6C170>
I only trimmed off nine vars, but some of them are longish (mediaurl,
frex).
Ah, I could have removed the ccid, too.
/dps
--
Yes, I have had a cucumber soda. Why do you ask?
Ross Clark
In my present setup Thunderbird showed me only two or three previous
posts. (There's probably a way to get more, but I don't want to know
about it right now.) I go back to GG if I need to search for old posts.
Lewis
> name came from Henry Gee Mayor of Chester ;) https://www.chester-races.com/about/history
--
Han : Not a bad bit of rescuing, huh? You know, sometimes I amaze
even myself.
Leia: That doesn't sound too hard.
Ross Clark
term ("first horse out of the starting gate"), which is rendered by the
site you linked to as "lead horse in a race", and by Wentworth & Flexner
(DictAmSlg 1960) as "a horse, esp. a race horse, specif. an inferior or
no better than average race horse".
I think I've known of this word most of my conscious life, though
perhaps never used it. I knew of it as a children's word (like bow-wow
as mentioned by the OP), a general word for horse, and maybe later as
sometimes used facetiously (?) by racing fans ("I like to follow the
gee-gees..." 1946 citation from W&F). But the much more specific terms
alluded to by your Ottawa sources I have not found mentioned elsewhere.
I must ask my friend Neville (a knowledgeable follower) tomorrow night
what he understands by the word.
Ross Clark
Quinn C
> It's worth [noting] that the University of Ottawa's sports teams are
>
> Similar to many older institutions, their teams were long referred to
> by the school's colours as the Garnet and Grey (French: Grenat et
So, is it just happenstance that the English are not throwing garnades?
--
Learning the rules that govern intelligible speech is an
inculcation into normalized language, where the price of not
conforming is the loss of intelligibility itself.
-- Judith Butler