Pig Latin
Anno Siegel
JZahn <jz...@aol.com> wrote:
[...]
>psuudo-language known as "Ubabubby Dubabubby" in which each syllable had a
>"b" (voiced labial stop?) sound inserted. It seemed like a fresh
This one has been (probably still is) in use in Germany. As are other
variants the details of which I forget.
Anno
Avi Jacobson
>Well, I have lurked for a while and checked dejanews for references to
>Pig Latin without much success so forgive me if this was just discussed
>the day before I subscribed to this group. How widespread is Pig Latin?
>Is it only regional in the US? Is it universal in the US? Do Canadian,
>or Australian or English children speak it? Do non-English speaking
>countries have analogous children's secret languages that are as widely
>spoken as Pig Latin is in the US?
John, to answer your questions from the point of view of a 41-year-old
expatriate American living in a country with a large English-speaking
expatriate community hailing from a plethora of countries:
1. I have never met an American or Canadian that had not heard of Pig
Latin. Practically all Americans and Canadians my age can
understand it when it is spoken slowly, apparently meaning they
have had prior contact with it -- presumably as children.
2. As I say, I have heard it from Canadians, too, although U.S.
cultural influence upon Canada is so overwhelming that I would
be suspicious if Canadians had _not_ heard of it.
3. I have also heard British and South African people use it, but
this could well be due to the close-knit nature of the English-
speaking community here in Israel. I do not know if it is
indigenous to those countries.
4. In Israel, there are two children's "languages" called,
respectively, "B language" and "G language". They are identical
in their "principle of operation": every syllable of a normal word
is split into two syllables by inserting either a B or a G sound
after the vowel of that syllable and then repeating the vowel. In
other words, "Hello, how are you?" in B language would be:
"Hebelobo, hobow abare youbou?" The technique was immortalized
several years ago in the Eurovision Song Contest, in which Israeli
singer Yizhar Cohen one first prize with the song "A-Ba-Nee-Bee".
The title is the pronoun "I" ("ani" in Hebrew) spoken in "B
language", and the song talks about how as children, we would
only say "I love you" in a secret language.
Nathan Mitchum
Quoting John E. Briggs (jebr...@indirect.com),
smfr...@mail1.sas.upenn.edu (steven morgan friedman), wrote:
-----------------
> Do non-English speaking
> : countries have analogous children's secret languages that are as widely
> : spoken as Pig Latin is in the US?
>
> imagine that every language has some sort of childrenspeak similar to pig
> latin.
-----------------
The French have at least two versions of pig latin. One they
call "verlan", evidently used in the main by schoolchildren.
Syllables are reversed in some words in a sentence (it's
impossible to do it with every word), so that "Pas de probleme"
becomes "Pas de blempro." The name verlan is itself a trick:
it derives from "a l'envers", which reads as lanver.
The other faux language is "loucherbem", supposedly the
forerunner of verlan. It was the code language of butchers,
in which "boucher" becomes "loucherbem": you put the word's
first letter at the end and add "em", and put an "l" at its
beginning.
Tres lympasem!
In high school I learned something similar to this. In brief,
chair became "chairgle-fair," lake "lagle-fake," mountain
"mougle-fountain." Nice boys avoided translating "duck."
And I hear that kids in Chile add "pa" to words. Thus "Mi
madre me dijo" is turned into "mipamapadrepamepadipajo."
---N.R. Igglefitchummem-lay <aj...@lafn.org>
Roger M. Vance
avi_...@netvision.net.il (Avi Jacobson) writes : ">"
>jebr...@indirect.com (John E. Briggs) wrote: ">>"
>>[...]How widespread is Pig Latin? [...]
>John, to answer your questions from the point of view of
>a 41-year-old expatriate American living in a country
>with a large English-speaking expatriate community hailing
>from a plethora of countries:
Hailing from too many countries? How many would be just
enough?
>1. I have never met an American or Canadian that had not
>heard of Pig Latin. [...]
You ask everyone you meet if they've heard of Pig Latin?
Is this sort of an ice-breaker, or do you work it in later?
(Just kidding, Avi. I enjoyed your comments about children's
languages in Israel.)
Roger Vance
1/2/96
--
Avi Jacobson
[Pig Latin "We're in the Money" reference, snipped]
>Is there a name for the Pig-Latin-like thing we used to do of adding "opp"
>after every consonant? (Woppe're inop thopp moppeynoppey, etc.)
In Philadelphia, where I was a lad, they call it "op language".
John M. Sullivan
>On ZOOM they originated a
>psuudo-language known as "Ubabubby Dubabubby" in which each syllable had a
>"b" (voiced labial stop?) sound inserted.
I learned something like this as a kid, and called it "Ab-engl-ab-ish".
We would accent each "ab" syllable more than the following syllable from
the real word. Amusing.
John Sullivan
--
John Sullivan, Asst Prof, Math Dept, Univ of Minnesota sull...@geom.umn.edu
John E. Briggs
ad...@lafn.org (Bob Cunningham) wrote:
...
> I have a friend who occupies the Porcine Languages chair at one of
>the local universities. She tells me that in spite of all the World Pig
>Latin Academy has been able to do, Pig Latin has broken up into a number
>of local dialects, some of which are mutually incomprehensible...
Alas, it appears we are condemned forever to pay for the Tower of Babel.
__
John Briggs (jebr...@indirect.com Phoenix, Arizona, USA)
___
* UniQWK v4.2 * The Windows Mail Reader
Matthew Rabuzzi
Nathan Mitchum <aj...@lafn.org> writes:
: The French have at least two versions of pig latin. One they
: call "verlan", evidently used in the main by schoolchildren.
: Syllables are reversed in some words in a sentence (it's
: impossible to do it with every word), so that "Pas de probleme"
: becomes "Pas de blempro." The name verlan is itself a trick:
: it derives from "a l'envers", which reads as lanver.
:
: The other faux language is "loucherbem", supposedly the
: forerunner of verlan. It was the code language of butchers,
: in which "boucher" becomes "loucherbem": you put the word's
: first letter at the end and add "em", and put an "l" at its
: beginning.
Here's some stuff from last summer in soc.culture.french,
on Louchebem and the words "jargon" and "argot".
-----------------------------------
From: j...@newsserver.trl.oz.au (Jacques Guy)
jargon -> largonji (in Louchebem) -> probably reinterpreted as:
l'argonji -> hence: l'argot
Louchebem: the secret language of the butchers' guild. Works like
this:
1. Take a word, any word, and write it down phonetically, e.g.
jargon
2. Move its initial consonant to the end:
jargon = j+argon -> argon+j = argonj
3. Add an "l" to its beginning:
argonj -> l+argonj -> largonj
4. Optionally, add any suffix you please:
largonj+i = largonji
Other example:
1. Take "boucher" (butcher), phonetically: bouche'
2. Move its initial consonant:
bouche' = b+ouche' -> ouche'+b = ouche'b
3. Add an initial "l":
louche'b
4. And finally some zany ending:
louche'b+em -> louche'bem
-----------------------------------
From: cma...@ifremer.fr (Christian Marget)
The "louchebem" language was the one of the butchers, when "argot" was
the one of the beggars, and I think that "louchebem" is more recent.
So, "argot" can't come therefrom.
.....................................................................
World's first strip joint: the topless towers of Ilium
Matthew Rabuzzi
Avi Jacobson
>avi_...@netvision.net.il (Avi Jacobson) writes : ">"
>>jebr...@indirect.com (John E. Briggs) wrote: ">>"
>>>[...]How widespread is Pig Latin? [...]
>>John, to answer your questions from the point of view of
>>a 41-year-old expatriate American living in a country
>>with a large English-speaking expatriate community hailing
>>from a plethora of countries:
[Paragraph 1:]
>Hailing from too many countries? How many would be just
>enough?
>>1. I have never met an American or Canadian that had not
>>heard of Pig Latin. [...]
[Paragraph 2:]
>You ask everyone you meet if they've heard of Pig Latin?
>Is this sort of an ice-breaker, or do you work it in later?
[Paragraph 3:]
>(Just kidding, Avi. I enjoyed your comments about children's
>languages in Israel.)
OK, here's the score: Paragraph 1 nearly earned you a "mea culpa"
from me; I misused the word "plethora". However, your right to the
"mea culpa" was forfeited due to your Paragraph 2, which nearly earned
you a cyberfist in the cyberchops. Happily, this, too, was averted
(another misuse? You sure do know how to induce paranoia in
well-meaning Israelis, don't you!) by the goodwill expressed in
paragraph 3 (no, I do not mean the value of a corporation after
deduction of etc. etc.!).
Atchway ourselfyay, udbay!
Avi Jacobson, Audio Lingual Consultant | When an idea is wanting,
| a word can always be
| found to take its place.
email: avi_...@netvision.net.il | -- Goethe
Roger M. Vance
avi_...@netvision.net.il (Avi Jacobson) writes
(In response to my smartass comments): ">"
> Atchway ourselfyay, udbay!
I'll make it up to you. While following this thread, I've been
trying to recall the name of a book I read as kid -- a book
containing a "Pig-Latin" episode. I finally remembered! Here's
a quotation from Ernest Thompson Seton's *Two Little Savages*,
published by Doubleday in 1903:
That summer a new boy at school added to Yan's
savage equipment. [...] He could tie a lot of curious
knots in string. He could make a wonderful birdy warble,
and he spoke a language that he called Tutnee. Yan was
interested in all, but especially the last. He teased
and bribed until he was admitted to the secret. It
consisted in spelling every word, leaving the five
vowels as they are, but doubling each consonant and
putting a "u" between. Thus "b" became "bub," "d" dud,
"m" "mum," and so forth, except that "c" was "suk," "h"
"hash," "x" "zux," and "w" "wak."
The sample given by the new boy, "sus-hash-u-tut u-pup
yak-o-u-rur mum-o-u-tut-hash," was said to be a mode of
enjoining silence.
This language was "awful useful," the new boy said,
to keep other fellows from knowing what you were saying,
which it certainly did. [...]
Re-reading this now, I'm struck by the economical clarity of
Thompson Seton's explanation and chagrined at how my Tutnee
skills have languished.
Rur-e-gag-a-rur-dud-sus,
Roger
1/7/96
--
Stuart Burnfield
>John, to answer your questions from the point of view of
>a 41-year-old expatriate American living in a country
>with a large English-speaking expatriate community hailing
>from a plethora of countries...
Avi: quick, BREATHE IN NOW!!!
Regards
--
Stuart Lothian Burnfield "Stuart is malicious, but he is not subtle."
Voice: +61 9 328 8288
PO Box 192 Leederville - Albert Einstein
Western Australia 6903