What do Brits mean when they say, "She's a ginger (first g hard)?
bill carroll
London for about six years reports some Brits refer to redheads as
'gingers', the first g being hard. It sounds like fingers except the
first letter is a hard g. Can someone help? /Thanks veryi much.
bill carroll, toronto
Leslie Danks
I've never heard it.
--
Les
(BrE)
Horace LaBadie
<27a0b433-36bb-4d1a...@a1g2000yqp.googlegroups.com>,
bill carroll <lv...@sympatico.ca> wrote:
Red hair is ginger in color in some shades. The infamous South Park
episode about Kick a Ginger Day comes to mind. And then there was Ginger
on Gilligan's Island, played by redhead TIna Louise.
Skitt
Wild guess -- could this be a reference to the famous redhead Ginger Rogers?
By the way, do you have the "hard g" definition right? It should be as
in "go", so your "fingers" reference is not a good one.
--
Skitt (SF Bay Area)
http://come.to/skitt
musika
Skitt <ski...@comcast.net> typed:
Both Gs are hard. The second one can be as in finger or singer. Ginger
(normal pron. and often reduced to Ginge) is normal for children with ginger
hair (not redhead). My great niece's nickname is Ginge (who incidentally has
just got a 1st in Biology and Psychology). Her brother is also ginger.
Interestingly, my brother and I are dark haired but my sisters are both
different shades of ginger - younger sister insists she is titian (no, not
Tiziano himself). The ginger "gene" skips a generation in our family.
--
Ray
UK
Peter Duncanson (BrE)
Bill has the "hard g" right. It is a pronunciation that was adopted some
years ago.
http://www.peevish.co.uk/slang/g.htm
ginger Noun.
1. Homosexual. Rhyming slang, from Ginger beer - 'queer'.
2. A ginger or red haired person. Pronounced with hard g's as in
goggles.
3. Carbonated drink, such as cola. [Scottish use]
It has a hard initial g only when used in as a noun in sense 2.
The hard g pronunciation is slang and is not in wider use. Calling
someone "a ginger" can be seen as offensive. It is a usage to be
understood but not copied.
--
Peter Duncanson, UK
(in alt.usage.english)
tony cooper
Catherine Tate does a regular skit about "Gingers". Here's one:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L1aQfpbjuLE&playnext=1&list=PL4FE758EB8296C6B1
and another:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F_DVHUEjnuU&feature=fvwrel
She pronounces it with a soft "g".
--
Tony Cooper - Orlando, Florida
Peter Duncanson (BrE)
<ma...@peterduncanson.net> wrote:
>It has a hard initial g only when used in as a noun in sense 2.
It has hard gs (g's) only when used in as a noun in sense 2.
Skitt
> Skitt typed:
>> bill carroll wrote:
Are you saying that ginger, the spice, is pronounced differently than
Ginger, the name? For me, all g's are soft (as in "gin") in both words.
Skitt
I think I have it now -- in the slang word "ginger" both g's are hard,
not only the first one.
Peter Duncanson (BrE)
That's it.
tony cooper
<ma...@peterduncanson.net> wrote:
Well, I'm confused. Catherine Tate is about as English as anyone who
might pronounce the word. (Born in Bloomsbury, central London) and
pronounces it with the soft "g" exactly as I would pronounce the
spice. The other actors in the skit do the same.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L1aQfpbjuLE
There are several other Tate and the Ginger Safe House skits on
YouTube.
Peter Duncanson (BrE)
Both the soft g and hard g versions are used. The soft g version is more
normal. The hard g version is perhaps something of a jocular
affectation.
tony cooper
<ma...@peterduncanson.net> wrote:
Catherine Tate could make me laugh by reading the small print on my
credit card agreement. But, if she and the other actors had
pronounced "ginger" with two hard "g"s in that skit, it would have
left me flat. I wouldn't have picked up on the meaning.
We don't use "ginger" to describe redheads in the US. Not in my
hearing/seeing, anyway. I can easily associate
ginger-the-powdered-spice with red because I've seen
ginger-the-powdered-s spice and knew what the reference was all about.
R H Draney
>
>We don't use "ginger" to describe redheads in the US. Not in my
>hearing/seeing, anyway. I can easily associate
>ginger-the-powdered-spice with red because I've seen
>ginger-the-powdered-s spice and knew what the reference was all about.
I suspect that there was an intermediate step involving cats....r
--
Me? Sarcastic?
Yeah, right.
Garrett Wollman
A few minutes ago I was in my kitchen and checked the spice cabinet.
This confirmed my impression that ginger, the spice, is in fact
yellowish. Some spices which are often combined with ginger are in fact
reddish-brown, like cassia and (true) cinnamon, but ginger itself? I
would call someone with hair the color of ginger a blond(e).
This:
<http://www.thespicehouse.com/spices/china-number-one-ginger-whole-root-and-powder>
is what the ginger in my kitchen looks like.
-GAWollman
--
Garrett A. Wollman | What intellectual phenomenon can be older, or more oft
wol...@bimajority.org| repeated, than the story of a large research program
Opinions not shared by| that impaled itself upon a false central assumption
my employers. | accepted by all practitioners? - S.J. Gould, 1993
tony cooper
(Garrett Wollman) wrote:
>In article <j0at7...@drn.newsguy.com>,
>R H Draney <dado...@spamcop.net> wrote:
>>tony cooper filted:
>>>
>>>We don't use "ginger" to describe redheads in the US. Not in my
>>>hearing/seeing, anyway. I can easily associate
>>>ginger-the-powdered-spice with red because I've seen
>>>ginger-the-powdered-s spice and knew what the reference was all about.
>>
>>I suspect that there was an intermediate step involving cats....r
>
>A few minutes ago I was in my kitchen and checked the spice cabinet.
>This confirmed my impression that ginger, the spice, is in fact
>yellowish. Some spices which are often combined with ginger are in fact
>reddish-brown, like cassia and (true) cinnamon, but ginger itself? I
>would call someone with hair the color of ginger a blond(e).
>
>This:
><http://www.thespicehouse.com/spices/china-number-one-ginger-whole-root-and-powder>
>is what the ginger in my kitchen looks like.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Ginger_powder.JPG
Not what I would call "red", but closer than yours.
Harrison Hill
We live in a PC climate in London where racism is forbidden and
everything else is forbidden! Freedom of speech no longer exists.
So the "gingers" invented themselves. They are a self-deprecating
group of people we are allowed to laugh at because they gave
themselves the nickname - and then pretended to be an oppressed
minority! The world melds (as David has said) "ginger" and "minger"
meaning ("hideous slut").
Harrison Hill
Alonside "minger" is the oft heard adjective "minging" (as in
"ringing") meaning: "rank, rotten, hideous, awful". "She was a right
minger". "That place is minging".
Mike Barnes
>On Jul 21, 10:58 pm, bill carroll <l...@sympatico.ca> wrote:
>> The subject line is the question. A canadian friend who has lived in
>> London for about six years reports some Brits refer to redheads as
>> 'gingers', the first g being hard. It sounds like fingers except the
>> first letter is a hard g. Can someone help? /Thanks veryi much.
>> bill carroll, toronto
>
>We live in a PC climate in London where racism is forbidden and
>everything else is forbidden! Freedom of speech no longer exists.
>
>So the "gingers" invented themselves. They are a self-deprecating
>group of people we are allowed to laugh at because they gave
>themselves the nickname - and then pretended to be an oppressed
>minority!
Coincidentally "ginger" is an anagram of a word for another oppressed
minority.
--
Mike Barnes
Cheshire, England
Bob Martin
>We don't use "ginger" to describe redheads in the US. Not in my
>hearing/seeing, anyway. I can easily associate
>ginger-the-powdered-spice with red because I've seen
>ginger-the-powdered-s spice and knew what the reference was all about.
What about the great Ginger Rogers?
R H Draney
Besides the powder and the unprocessed root, one often encounters ginger in
pickled form in sushi restaurants:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Gari_ginger.jpg
Not red, exactly, but certainly not yellow....r
Duggy
Help how? In England, America and Australia "Ginger" is one way to
describe a redhead.
Another way (in Australia at least) is Ranga.
Locally we have a gang of them.
http://www.townsvillebulletin.com.au/article/2011/07/13/247551_news.html
I wish they'd call them "The Ranga Gang"
I also with their mascot was a singing Ape who featured on GANGajang's
second album.
But mostly so I couldn't say "The Ranga Gang's Orangutan sang on
GANGajang's GangAgain"
But I can't say that.
===
= DUG.
===
Duggy
> I suspect that there was an intermediate step involving cats....r
Like that time I fell down the stairs and broke my arm.
===
= DUG.
===
Duggy
> Coincidentally "ginger" is an anagram of a word for another oppressed
> minority.
The dirty rignegs deserve it though.
===
= DUG.
===
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KVN_0qvuhhw
the Omrud
And, to compare myself with Catherine Tate, I've never heard the hard g
version.
--
David
SW France
the Omrud
Daughter loves soup but hates the sight and texture of good thick stock,
which I habitually make from bones, when it sets (think of meat jelly).
She named it "ming" on the grounds that it was thoroughly disgusting;
cold, thickened stock is now always known as "ming" in our house.
--
David
SW France
CDB
> Harrison Hill wrote:
>> Harrison Hill<harrish...@gmx.com> wrote:
>>> bill carroll<l...@sympatico.ca> wrote:
>>>
>>>> The subject line is the question. A canadian friend who has
>>>> lived in London for about six years reports some Brits refer to
>>>> redheads as 'gingers', the first g being hard. It sounds like
>>>> fingers except the first letter is a hard g. Can someone help?
>>>> /Thanks veryi much. bill carroll, toronto
>>>
>>> We live in a PC climate in London where racism is forbidden and
>>> everything else is forbidden! Freedom of speech no longer exists.
>>>
>>> So the "gingers" invented themselves. They are a self-deprecating
>>> group of people we are allowed to laugh at because they gave
>>> themselves the nickname - and then pretended to be an oppressed
>>> minority! The world melds (as David has said) "ginger" and
>>> "minger" meaning ("hideous slut").
>>
>> Alonside "minger" is the oft heard adjective "minging" (as in
>> "ringing") meaning: "rank, rotten, hideous, awful". "She was a
>> right minger". "That place is minging".
>
> Daughter loves soup but hates the sight and texture of good thick
> stock, which I habitually make from bones, when it sets (think of
> meat jelly). She named it "ming" on the grounds that it was
> thoroughly disgusting; cold, thickened stock is now always known
> as "ming" in our house.
>>
version?
>>
Don't think I'll post the text.
>>
http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=mung
Peter Duncanson (BrE)
wrote:
>In article <blch27h1b0fvflsuo...@4ax.com>,
>ma...@peterduncanson.net says...
>>
>> On Thu, 21 Jul 2011 23:50:40 +0100, "Peter Duncanson (BrE)"
>> <ma...@peterduncanson.net> wrote:
>>
>> >It has a hard initial g only when used in as a noun in sense 2.
>>
>> It has hard gs (g's) only when used in as a noun in sense 2.
>
>My first thought on reading the start of the thread was that the
>pronunciation which uses hard gs is a melding together of "ginger"
>(pronounced as in the spice), and the insulting slang term (as far as I
>know, used in BrEng only) "minger".
That's when "minger" is said with a hard g. I'm more familiar with it
with a soft g.
I've lived in Northern Ireland since 1972. It was here that I met the
ancestor of "minger", the word "minging". Hereabouts the final "ing" in
"minging" is generally pronounced as indicated by the way the word is
often spelt: "mingun" (soft g).
OED:
"Ming": orig. and chiefly Sc. Human excrement; an unpleasant smell
(now the usual sense).
"Minging: slang (orig. Sc.). That smells bad, stinking; (more generally)
unpleasant, foul. Also: very drunk".
Cheryl
> In article<j0at7...@drn.newsguy.com>,
> R H Draney<dado...@spamcop.net> wrote:
>> tony cooper filted:
>>>
>>> We don't use "ginger" to describe redheads in the US. Not in my
>>> hearing/seeing, anyway. I can easily associate
>>> ginger-the-powdered-spice with red because I've seen
>>> ginger-the-powdered-s spice and knew what the reference was all about.
>>
>> I suspect that there was an intermediate step involving cats....r
>
> A few minutes ago I was in my kitchen and checked the spice cabinet.
> This confirmed my impression that ginger, the spice, is in fact
> yellowish. Some spices which are often combined with ginger are in fact
> reddish-brown, like cassia and (true) cinnamon, but ginger itself? I
> would call someone with hair the color of ginger a blond(e).
>
> This:
> <http://www.thespicehouse.com/spices/china-number-one-ginger-whole-root-and-powder>
> is what the ginger in my kitchen looks like.
>
> -GAWollman
>
to be hot-tempered, and ginger is a hot spice. Not as hot as some of the
chiles, of course, but still noticeably hot, especially in those really
nice ginger snaps some stores import from Sweden.
--
Cheryl
the Omrud
> the Omrud wrote:
>
>> Daughter loves soup but hates the sight and texture of good thick
>> stock, which I habitually make from bones, when it sets (think of
>> meat jelly). She named it "ming" on the grounds that it was
>> thoroughly disgusting; cold, thickened stock is now always known
>> as "ming" in our house.
>
> It's reminiscent of some of the meanings of "mung". A thinned
> version?
>
> Don't think I'll post the text.
No. Good call.
--
David
SW France
Peter Duncanson (BrE)
That is an assocation of ideas that I've met and I think it is part of
the story.
The phrase "he/she is a ginger" is best avoided unless one is very
familiar with the idiom and its connotations.
The phrase "a ginger" is sometimes used to suggest that the person is
lacking in some way (mentally). It might be seen as analogous to a mild
racial slur based on the idea that "All gingers are the same...".
Cheryl
I'd never heard the term 'ginger' to imply mental problems, but then,
it's not often used for a red-head either in my part of the country.
On the other hand, just after I posted, I remember the Canadian werewolf
movie 'Ginger Snaps'.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ginger_Snaps_%28film%29
I thought it wasn't bad. Not that I'm an expert on movies about
werewolves (or for that matter, anything else) but it was better than I
expected.
--
Cheryl
Peter Duncanson (BrE)
A Google search for the disparaging phrase "what do you expect, he's a
ginger" finds a few examples:
One of them is in a forum discussion about the actor David Caruso
(Horatio Caine in CSI Miami). Most comments are unfavorable, icluding
this:
Them gingers don't do Miami well and yes.... he is a fucktard actor
and this:
What do you expect? He's a Ginger, and has no soul.
(That complete wording appears in other places.)
From:
http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_1_5/995610_.html
There is a discussion about the British radio and TV presenter and
producer Chris Evans. He is red-haired and formed his own production
company Ginger Productions (since sold)[1].
He bought a car for 12 million GBP (nearly $US20 million).
The comments include:
http://briskoda.net/forums/topic/161678-chris-evans-more-money-than-sense/
What do you expect - he's a ginger ! :dull:
Then there are ginger jokes:
http://gingerjokes.org/?funny
[1]
http://ginger.tv/about/heritage/
tony cooper
wrote:
Wiki says "Ginger" came from a young cousin calling her "Ginga"
because the cousin had trouble pronouncing Ginger's real name:
Virginia. The nickname stuck.
I can believe this. A relative of mine was always known as "Ahnoo"
because, when they were children, her brother mangled "Edna" that way.
Drifting a bit...whenever someone mispronounced a word in my family
when I was growing up, some family member was sure to say "If you
can't say 'gaby', say 'geese'." (If you can't say gravy, say grease)
I have no idea if it was a known saying, a version of a known saying,
or if it was based on some early family members speech problem.
tony cooper
<ma...@peterduncanson.net> wrote:
>On Fri, 22 Jul 2011 12:19:52 +0800, David D S <inv...@invalid.invalid>
>wrote:
>
>>In article <blch27h1b0fvflsuo...@4ax.com>,
>>ma...@peterduncanson.net says...
>>>
>>> On Thu, 21 Jul 2011 23:50:40 +0100, "Peter Duncanson (BrE)"
>>> <ma...@peterduncanson.net> wrote:
>>>
>>> >It has a hard initial g only when used in as a noun in sense 2.
>>>
>>> It has hard gs (g's) only when used in as a noun in sense 2.
>>
>>My first thought on reading the start of the thread was that the
>>pronunciation which uses hard gs is a melding together of "ginger"
>>(pronounced as in the spice), and the insulting slang term (as far as I
>>know, used in BrEng only) "minger".
>
>That's when "minger" is said with a hard g. I'm more familiar with it
>with a soft g.
>
>I've lived in Northern Ireland since 1972. It was here that I met the
>ancestor of "minger", the word "minging". Hereabouts the final "ing" in
>"minging" is generally pronounced as indicated by the way the word is
>often spelt: "mingun" (soft g).
>
>OED:
>"Ming": orig. and chiefly Sc. Human excrement; an unpleasant smell
> (now the usual sense).
>
>"Minging: slang (orig. Sc.). That smells bad, stinking; (more generally)
> unpleasant, foul. Also: very drunk".
Add an "e" and it gets more vulgar. Minge = female pubic hair
I don't think we should tell the Omrud's daughter about this word
considering her name for her recipe for soup.
Drew Lawson
wol...@bimajority.org (Garrett Wollman) writes:
>
>A few minutes ago I was in my kitchen and checked the spice cabinet.
>This confirmed my impression that ginger, the spice, is in fact
>yellowish.
Yes, that (and the paleness of fresh ginger from the supermarket)
is why I (ignorant in the US) had long since concluded that the UK
usage of "ginger" meant "blonde." I was only relieved of that
misconception a few days ago when the tabloid coverage of the News
of the World firing, as filtered through The Daily Show, corrected
my brain.
As a pro-redhead sort of guy, the word is now much more interesting
to me.
--
Drew Lawson What would Brian Boitano do?
Peter Duncanson (BrE)
We have a relatively high proportion of redheads over here in Britain
and Ireland.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_hair#Modern
Geographic distribution
Modern
Today, red hair is most commonly found at the northern and western
fringes of Europe; it is associated particularly with the people
located in the United Kingdom and in Ireland
Scotland has the highest proportion of redheads; 13 per cent of the
population has red hair and approximately 40 per cent carries the
recessive redhead gene. Ireland has the second highest
percentage; as many as 10 per cent of the Irish population has red,
auburn, or strawberry blond hair. It is thought that up to 46
percent of the Irish population carries the recessive redhead gene.
A 1956 study of hair colour amongst British army recruits also found
high levels of red hair in Wales and the English Border
counties.
Mike Lyle
wrote:
I've sometimes heard it beginning with a the hard "g" and rhyming with
Southern E "singer": it was indeed apparently jocular.
--
Mike.
Mike Lyle
I'm a Bluey, and so was me father before. This doesn't generally lead
to difficulty with the expression "humping one's bluey".
--
Mike.
Rich Ulrich
I too was thinking of "Ginger Snaps" -- Did they make that point
in the movie about her name and her hair?
I really liked the movie, and it was somehow connected with my
first realizing that Ginger was a nickname for a redhead. And
that it wasn't ordinarily a given-name, since it meant that.
The two followup movies were not quite as good.
--
Rich Ulrich
John Dean
> On Thu, 21 Jul 2011 15:29:19 -0700, Skitt <ski...@comcast.net> wrote:
>
>>
>>> The subject line is the question. A canadian friend who has lived in
>>> London for about six years reports some Brits refer to redheads as
>>> 'gingers', the first g being hard. It sounds like fingers except
>>> the first letter is a hard g. Can someone help? /Thanks veryi
>>> much. bill carroll, toronto
>>
>> Rogers?
>>
>> By the way, do you have the "hard g" definition right? It should be
>> as
>> in "go", so your "fingers" reference is not a good one.
>
> Bill has the "hard g" right. It is a pronunciation that was adopted
> some years ago.
>
>
> someone "a ginger" can be seen as offensive. It is a usage to be
> understood but not copied.
I've heard a lot of slang and I've never heard ginger pronounced like that.
--
John Dean
Oxford
Duggy
> On Fri, 22 Jul 2011 09:41:30 -0230, Cheryl <cperk...@mun.ca> wrote:
> >On the other hand, just after I posted, I remember the Canadian werewolf
> >movie 'Ginger Snaps'.
> >http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ginger_Snaps_%28film%29
Red (actually red) headed Australian character. (The story goes when
colour was added the creator was offered choices and said "Someone
once called him Ginger in a strip so Red")
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ginger_Meggs
> >I thought it wasn't bad. Not that I'm an expert on movies about
> >werewolves (or for that matter, anything else) but it was better than I
> >expected.
Lot of friends talked it up. Me and another friend watched it and...
it was just a werewolf film.
> I too was thinking of "Ginger Snaps" -- Did they make that point
> in the movie about her name and her hair?
Don't recall.
===
= DUG.
===
Robert Bannister
> In article
> <27a0b433-36bb-4d1a...@a1g2000yqp.googlegroups.com>,
> bill carroll<lv...@sympatico.ca> wrote:
>
>> The subject line is the question. A canadian friend who has lived in
>> London for about six years reports some Brits refer to redheads as
>> 'gingers', the first g being hard. It sounds like fingers except the
>> first letter is a hard g. Can someone help? /Thanks veryi much.
>> bill carroll, toronto
>
> episode about Kick a Ginger Day comes to mind. And then there was Ginger
> on Gilligan's Island, played by redhead TIna Louise.
What has this to do with a hard G?
--
Robert Bannister
Peter Moylan
> The phrase "a ginger" is sometimes used to suggest that the person is
> lacking in some way (mentally). It might be seen as analogous to a mild
> racial slur based on the idea that "All gingers are the same...".
It seems that some Australians - all a lot younger than I am - are using
"ranga" for redheads in the same offensive way. The word is an
abbreviation for "orungutang".
The origin is a bit of mystery, but I have a feeling that it comes from
a TV series about a dysfunctional high school. Not the sort of thing I'd
choose to watch, which is probably why I took a long time to work out
what the word meant. It seemed to burst into widespread use, at least in
the newspapers, when we got a red-haired Prime Minister.
Which countries use "ginger cat" to describe a cat with orange-coloured fur?
--
Peter Moylan, Newcastle, NSW, Australia. http://www.pmoylan.org
For an e-mail address, see my web page.
Robert Bannister
> bill carroll wrote:
>
>> The subject line is the question. A canadian friend who has lived in
>> London for about six years reports some Brits refer to redheads as
>> 'gingers', the first g being hard. It sounds like fingers except the
>> first letter is a hard g. Can someone help? /Thanks veryi much.
>> bill carroll, toronto
>
> Rogers?
>
> By the way, do you have the "hard g" definition right? It should be as
> in "go", so your "fingers" reference is not a good one.
Is this Skitt's Law in operation? Surely you don't pronounce "fingers"
like "whingers"? "Finger" does have a hard g just like "go", but not
like "flanges".
--
Robert Bannister
Peter Moylan
> We have a relatively high proportion of redheads over here in Britain
> and Ireland.
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_hair#Modern
>
> Geographic distribution
> Modern
>
> Today, red hair is most commonly found at the northern and western
> fringes of Europe; it is associated particularly with the people
> located in the United Kingdom and in Ireland
>
> Scotland has the highest proportion of redheads [...]
I have been told that it was the Vikings who brought red hair to the
British Isles. I have no idea whether that's accurate.
R H Draney
Dealer has to stand on a hard G....r
--
Me? Sarcastic?
Yeah, right.
R H Draney
Shirley you mean "phalanges"....
This is about the point where I'm reminded that in the song "Old Brown Shoe",
George Harrison (he of the two soft Gs) rhymed "singer" and "finger"....r
Peter Brooks
wrote:
> Peter Duncanson (BrE) wrote:
> > The phrase "a ginger" is sometimes used to suggest that the person is
> > lacking in some way (mentally). It might be seen as analogous to a mild
> > racial slur based on the idea that "All gingers are the same...".
>
> It seems that some Australians - all a lot younger than I am - are using
> "ranga" for redheads in the same offensive way. The word is an
> abbreviation for "orungutang".
>
> The origin is a bit of mystery, but I have a feeling that it comes from
> a TV series about a dysfunctional high school. Not the sort of thing I'd
> choose to watch, which is probably why I took a long time to work out
> what the word meant. It seemed to burst into widespread use, at least in
> the newspapers, when we got a red-haired Prime Minister.
>
> Which countries use "ginger cat" to describe a cat with orange-coloured fur?
>
[OED]
"
4.A.4 dial. and slang. a.A.4.a A light sandy colour, resembling that
of ginger.
1865 Dickens Mut. Fr. i. ii, Mature young gentleman; with‥too much
ginger in his whiskers. 1889 N.W. Linc. Gloss. (ed. 2), Ginger, a
light red or yellow colour, applied to the hair.
b.A.4.b A cock with reddish plumage; also, a red-haired or sandy-
haired person.
1785 Grose Dict. Vulg. Tongue s.v. Ginger-pated, Red cocks are
called gingers. 1797 Sporting Mag. IX. 338 In cocking, I suppose
you will not find a better breed of gingers. 1857 H. Ainsworth
Spendthrift xvi. 109 Examining the cocks, and betting with each other‥
this backing a grey, that a ginger. 1885 in Eng. Illustr. Mag. June
605 There is‥‘Ginger’, the red-haired, who [etc.].
"
Duggy
wrote:
> Peter Duncanson (BrE) wrote:
> > The phrase "a ginger" is sometimes used to suggest that the person is
> > lacking in some way (mentally). It might be seen as analogous to a mild
> > racial slur based on the idea that "All gingers are the same...".
> It seems that some Australians - all a lot younger than I am - are using
> "ranga" for redheads in the same offensive way.
Isn't the Prime Minister Welsh? She's used it and isn't too young.
> Which countries use "ginger cat" to describe a cat with orange-coloured fur?
I had a cat called Orange that people in Australia referred to as
being ginger coloured.
===
= DUG.
===
Ian P Noble
<lv...@sympatico.ca> wrote:
>The subject line is the question. A canadian friend who has lived in
>London for about six years reports some Brits refer to redheads as
>'gingers', the first g being hard. It sounds like fingers except the
>first letter is a hard g. Can someone help? /Thanks veryi much.
>bill carroll, toronto
Only time I've heard it is in the following:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KVN_0qvuhhw
Cheers - Ian
(BrE: Yorks., Hants.. Proud to (have) be(en) ginger.)
Duggy
wrote:
> I have been told that it was the Vikings who brought red hair to the
> British Isles. I have no idea whether that's accurate.
Sounds messy.
===
= DUG.
===
Ian P Noble
<ipn...@killspam.o2.co.uk> wrote:
>On Thu, 21 Jul 2011 14:58:58 -0700 (PDT), bill carroll
><lv...@sympatico.ca> wrote:
>
>>The subject line is the question. A canadian friend who has lived in
>>London for about six years reports some Brits refer to redheads as
>>'gingers', the first g being hard. It sounds like fingers except the
>>first letter is a hard g. Can someone help? /Thanks veryi much.
>>bill carroll, toronto
>
>Only time I've heard it is in the following:
>
>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KVN_0qvuhhw
>
Sorry - I should have added that the performer in that clip, Tim
Minchin, grew up in Australia, rather than the UK, and that London
also has quite a substantial antipodean population. It's possible that
it's not originally a British usage at all.
Cheers - Ian
(BrE: Yorks., Hants.)
Duggy
> On Sat, 23 Jul 2011 08:47:08 +0100, Ian P Noble
>
> >On Thu, 21 Jul 2011 14:58:58 -0700 (PDT), bill carroll
> ><l...@sympatico.ca> wrote:
>
> >>The subject line is the question. A canadian friend who has lived in
> >>London for about six years reports some Brits refer to redheads as
> >>'gingers', the first g being hard. It sounds like fingers except the
> >>first letter is a hard g. Can someone help? /Thanks veryi much.
> >>bill carroll, toronto
>
> >Only time I've heard it is in the following:
>
> >http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KVN_0qvuhhw
>
> Sorry - I should have added that the performer in that clip, Tim
> Minchin, grew up in Australia, rather than the UK, and that London
> also has quite a substantial antipodean population. It's possible that
> it's not originally a British usage at all.
Hey that's the same link I posted.
===
= DUG.
===
Ian P Noble
<Paul....@jcu.edu.au> wrote:
>On Jul 22, 4:03 pm, Mike Barnes <mikebar...@bluebottle.com> wrote:
>
>> Coincidentally "ginger" is an anagram of a word for another oppressed
>> minority.
>
>The dirty rignegs deserve it though.
>
>===
>= DUG.
>===
>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KVN_0qvuhhw
Darn - just posted that lionk as well. That will teach me to read
every post in a thread before I add to it.
Reverting to topic, note that Minchin uses the soft-g pronujnciation,
but knows of the hard-g pronunciation as well - he uses it for
contrast twice at 3:35 in the clip.
Peter Duncanson (BrE)
He uses the intermediate version with only an initial hard-g.
Athel Cornish-Bowden
> [ ... ]
> And, to compare myself with Catherine Tate, I've never heard the hard g
> version.
I'm glad you said that. I was beginning to think I was the only one.
--
athel
Cheryl
I thought people in the UK used 'ginger cat'. I'd call it an orange, or
possibly marmalade cat.
--
Cheryl
Duggy
> On Fri, 22 Jul 2011 01:46:11 -0700 (PDT), Duggy
> Darn - just posted that lionk as well. That will teach me to read
> every post in a thread before I add to it.
Hey I just posted that that's the same link I posted.
===
= DUG.
===
CDB
> Peter Duncanson (BrE) wrote:
>
>> The phrase "a ginger" is sometimes used to suggest that the person
>> is lacking in some way (mentally). It might be seen as analogous
>> to a mild racial slur based on the idea that "All gingers are the
>> same...".
>
> It seems that some Australians - all a lot younger than I am - are
> using "ranga" for redheads in the same offensive way. The word is an
> abbreviation for "orungutang".
>>
parallel to "ape" in "going ape".
>>
> The origin is a bit of mystery, but I have a feeling that it comes
> from
> a TV series about a dysfunctional high school. Not the sort of
> thing I'd choose to watch, which is probably why I took a long time
> to work out
> what the word meant. It seemed to burst into widespread use, at
> least in the newspapers, when we got a red-haired Prime Minister.
>
> Which countries use "ginger cat" to describe a cat with
> orange-coloured fur?
>>
Duggy
In my experience mostly ginger. I had had not much experience with
cats and called it Orange (someone may have called it an orange cat)
but after that I mostly heard the colour called ginger.
===
= DUG.
===
Drew Lawson
In the US, I just hear "orange," though in US cat show circles, that's "red."
--
Drew Lawson | We were taking a vote when
| the ground came up and hit us.
| -- Cylon warrior
Drew Lawson
Peter Moylan <inv...@peter.pmoylan.org.invalid> writes:
>Peter Duncanson (BrE) wrote:
>
>> We have a relatively high proportion of redheads over here in Britain
>> and Ireland.
>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_hair#Modern
>>
>> Geographic distribution
>> Modern
>>
>> Today, red hair is most commonly found at the northern and western
>> fringes of Europe; it is associated particularly with the people
>> located in the United Kingdom and in Ireland
>>
>> Scotland has the highest proportion of redheads [...]
>
>I have been told that it was the Vikings who brought red hair to the
>British Isles. I have no idea whether that's accurate.
It is widely repeated. I don't know what the geneticists say, but
I am more inclined to believe that they pillaged the red hair and
took some home with them.
--
|Drew Lawson | If you're not part of the solution |
| | you're part of the precipitate. |
Drew Lawson
Mike Lyle <mike_l...@yahoo.co.uk> writes:
>
>I'm a Bluey, and so was me father before. This doesn't generally lead
>to difficulty with the expression "humping one's bluey".
Funny you should bring that up. I was listening to the Makem
Brothers just the other day, "Road To Gundagai" I believe, and
realized that I had no clue what that phrase means.
I assume, "trudge." But what is a "bluey" and how do you hump it
in public without getting arrested?
--
Drew Lawson | "Look! A big distracting thing!"
| -- Crow T. Robot.
|
Peter Duncanson (BrE)
Lawson) wrote:
>In article <32oj27tei22d6b1fc...@4ax.com>
> Mike Lyle <mike_l...@yahoo.co.uk> writes:
>>
>>I'm a Bluey, and so was me father before. This doesn't generally lead
>>to difficulty with the expression "humping one's bluey".
>
>Funny you should bring that up. I was listening to the Makem
>Brothers just the other day, "Road To Gundagai" I believe, and
>realized that I had no clue what that phrase means.
>
>I assume, "trudge." But what is a "bluey" and how do you hump it
>in public without getting arrested?
Not that sort of humping!
OED:
bluey,
(in Australia): A bushman's bundle, the outside wrapper of which is
generally a blue blanket. Esp. (of tramps or hikers) in the phr. to
hump bluey, to travel with a swag, to hit the trail.
hump
To hoist or carry (a bundle) upon the back: chiefly to hump one's
swag (bluey, drum) , to shoulder one's bundle. Also more generally,
to carry or shift (a heavy object), not necessarily upon the back,
and to hump it . See also bluey n. Chiefly Austral. and N.Z. slang.
Skitt
Yes -- I didn't write what I meant to write. In fact, now I don't even
know what I meant to write.
I do remember that I had no idea that the word was *not* supposed to
sound like the name Ginger.
Oh, I think the "first letter is a hard g" statement made me think that
the second g is meant to be a soft one (as in "gem"), thus messing up
the "fingers" reference.
Anyway, I'm an old man. I'm confused. What's my name? Will you take
me home?
--
Skitt (SF Bay Area)
http://come.to/skitt
Matthew Bladen
One Norwegian of my acquaintance informed me that people in Norway refer
to red hair as 'Scottish' hair.
--
Matthew
tony cooper
You remember where you live? That's in full possession of one's
facilities at our age.
--
Tony Cooper - Orlando, Florida
tony cooper
"faculties", damn it, "faculties". It's the facilities that we use
more frequently at our age.
Mike Lyle
<tony_co...@earthlink.net> wrote:
Darn it, Tony! Once again I thought you'd issued a neat and apposite
witticism, and then you come along and tell me it was just a mistake.
--
Mike.
Mike Lyle
<Paul....@jcu.edu.au> wrote:
[...]
>
>Red (actually red) headed Australian character. (The story goes when
>colour was added the creator was offered choices and said "Someone
>once called him Ginger in a strip so Red")
>
>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ginger_Meggs
>
Framed on the wall here in sunny England is the image of Ginger Meggs
snipped from the front of a sloppy Joe I used to wear when I was about
seven. Accompanied, as ever, by his faithful monkey and dog
companions.
[...]
--
Mike.
Duggy
> It is widely repeated. I don't know what the geneticists say, but
> I am more inclined to believe that they pillaged the red hair and
> took some home with them.
Sounds even messier.
===
= DUG.
===
Duggy
> On Fri, 22 Jul 2011 16:03:06 -0700 (PDT), Duggy<Paul.Dug...@jcu.edu.au> wrote:
>
> [...]
>
>
>
> >Red (actually red) headed Australian character. (The story goes when
> >colour was added the creator was offered choices and said "Someone
> >once called him Ginger in a strip so Red")
>
> >http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ginger_Meggs
>
> Framed on the wall here in sunny England is the image of Ginger Meggs
> snipped from the front of a sloppy Joe I used to wear when I was about
> seven. Accompanied, as ever, by his faithful monkey and dog
> companions.
> [...]
On a cruise once the then writer/artist James Kemsley was teaching
drawing so I had a signed sketch of the character on butcher's paper.
===
= DUG.
===
Robert Bannister
Don't the French call that yellow (jaune) or is that for what we call
"fawn"?
--
Robert Bannister
Robert Bannister
They supposedly gave the name to Russia, allegedly from Rurik, the
Viking chief who conquered them, but in many Slavonic languages today
"roos" means "red or blond haired". I wonder whether any other tribe had
red hair before the Vikings spread it around - they certain did get about.
--
Robert Bannister
Robert Bannister
> Robert Bannister filted:
>>
>> On 22/07/11 6:29 AM, Skitt wrote:
>>>
>>> By the way, do you have the "hard g" definition right? It should be as
>>> in "go", so your "fingers" reference is not a good one.
>>
>> Is this Skitt's Law in operation? Surely you don't pronounce "fingers"
>> like "whingers"? "Finger" does have a hard g just like "go", but not
>> like "flanges".
>
>
> This is about the point where I'm reminded that in the song "Old Brown Shoe",
> George Harrison (he of the two soft Gs) rhymed "singer" and "finger"....r
>
>
Most people in northern England do.
--
Robert Bannister
Robert Bannister
I can't remember where that is anymore.
--
Robert Bannister
Peter Moylan
> On Jul 23, 11:58 am, Peter Moylan <inva...@peter.pmoylan.org.invalid>
> wrote:
>> Peter Duncanson (BrE) wrote:
>>> The phrase "a ginger" is sometimes used to suggest that the person is
>>> lacking in some way (mentally). It might be seen as analogous to a mild
>>> racial slur based on the idea that "All gingers are the same...".
>> It seems that some Australians - all a lot younger than I am - are using
>> "ranga" for redheads in the same offensive way.
>
> Isn't the Prime Minister Welsh? She's used it and isn't too young.
She's only a few years older than my eldest son. Besides, she was
probably reacting to the people who referred to her that way.
Immediately after stepping into the position, she referred to herself as
Australia's first red-headed Prime Minister. "Red-headed" is neutral; I
gather that "ranga" is a bit offensive.
She can't be Welsh, because I can understand what she says. (She left
the country at age 5.)
--
Peter Moylan, Newcastle, NSW, Australia. http://www.pmoylan.org
For an e-mail address, see my web page.
Duggy
Sure but going places and stealing hair is still pretty messy.
===
= DUG.
===
tony cooper
Sloppy Joe? A "sloppy Joe" in the US is a sandwich. Some call it a
"loose meat sandwich". http://simplyrecipes.com/photos/sloppy-joe.jpg
They are indeed sloppy to eat, and one sometimes ends up wearing
stains and dribbles after eating one.
Duggy
I think in some venues it is a jumper-style top.
===
= DUG.
===
R H Draney
Old headmasters never die; they just lose their faculties....r
--
Me? Sarcastic?
Yeah, right.
Jerry Friedman
> In article <32oj27tei22d6b1fcf4ptgqb0k2dg6i...@4ax.com>
> Mike Lyle <mike_lyle...@yahoo.co.uk> writes:
> >I'm a Bluey, and so was me father before. This doesn't generally lead
> >to difficulty with the expression "humping one's bluey".
>
> Funny you should bring that up. I was listening to the Makem
> Brothers just the other day,
[snip question on English usage]
Good choice, but it was the Clancy Brothers and Tommy Makem.
--
Jerry Friedman
Isabelle Cecchini
translated as "fauve".
--
Isabelle Cecchini
Athel Cornish-Bowden
> [ ... ]
> Well, I'm confused. Catherine Tate is about as English as anyone who
> might pronounce the word. (Born in Bloomsbury, central London) and
> pronounces it with the soft "g" exactly as I would pronounce the
> spice. The other actors in the skit do the same.
How does the charming and distinguished Rebekah Brooks pronounce it?
--
athel
Cheryl
I thought that the current thinking on the Vikings is that they were
honest businessmen, or at the very least, they were honest businessmen
if they couldn't get away with the raping and pillaging.
--
Cheryl
Skitt
> tony cooper wrote:
>> Mike Lyle wrote:
>>> Framed on the wall here in sunny England is the image of Ginger Meggs
>>> snipped from the front of a sloppy Joe I used to wear when I was about
>>> seven. Accompanied, as ever, by his faithful monkey and dog
>>> companions.
>
>> Sloppy Joe? A "sloppy Joe" in the US is a sandwich. Some call it a
>> "loose meat sandwich". http://simplyrecipes.com/photos/sloppy-joe.jpg
>
>> They are indeed sloppy to eat, and one sometimes ends up wearing
>> stains and dribbles after eating one.
>
> I think in some venues it is a jumper-style top.
Maybe, but I don't think it tastes very good.
tony cooper
Back when "Roseanne" (Roseanne Barr)was a series, the show had
Roseanne and her husband opening a restaurant that served "loose meat
sandwiches". At that time, I had never heard Sloppy Joes called that.
I was surprised to find out that it was a well-used term in certain
parts of the country.
obAue: "Sloppy Joes" is a term that makes me want to make it "Sloppy
Joe's". I can't think of a logical reason to do so, but I want to.
I wouldn't write "Heros" as "Hero's".
Mike Lyle
<tony_co...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>On Sun, 24 Jul 2011 10:27:35 -0700, Skitt <ski...@comcast.net> wrote:
>
>>Duggy wrote:
>>> tony cooper wrote:
>>>> Mike Lyle wrote:
>>
>>>>> Framed on the wall here in sunny England is the image of Ginger Meggs
>>>>> snipped from the front of a sloppy Joe I used to wear when I was about
>>>>> seven. Accompanied, as ever, by his faithful monkey and dog
>>>>> companions.
>>>
>>>> Sloppy Joe? A "sloppy Joe" in the US is a sandwich. Some call it a
>>>> "loose meat sandwich". http://simplyrecipes.com/photos/sloppy-joe.jpg
>>>
>>>> They are indeed sloppy to eat, and one sometimes ends up wearing
>>>> stains and dribbles after eating one.
>>>
>>> I think in some venues it is a jumper-style top.
>>
>>Maybe, but I don't think it tastes very good.
You need Australian tomato sauce.
I don't think they're called that anywhere any more, and I don't know
_what_ to call them: loose-fitting, thickish cotton jersey, crew neck,
long sleeves. Can be difficult to find one not inscribed "IDONTGOTO
UNIVERSITY", "MUFC", or some such.
>
>Back when "Roseanne" (Roseanne Barr)was a series, the show had
>Roseanne and her husband opening a restaurant that served "loose meat
>sandwiches". At that time, I had never heard Sloppy Joes called that.
>I was surprised to find out that it was a well-used term in certain
>parts of the country.
>
>obAue: "Sloppy Joes" is a term that makes me want to make it "Sloppy
>Joe's". I can't think of a logical reason to do so, but I want to.
>I wouldn't write "Heros" as "Hero's".
You get places called "Sloppy Joe's", though: suppressed memories of
those would explain the impulse.
--
Mike.
Mike Lyle
"Light tan" shoes are "jaune", though, ness pa?
--
Mike.
tony cooper
<mike_l...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>>obAue: "Sloppy Joes" is a term that makes me want to make it "Sloppy
>>Joe's". I can't think of a logical reason to do so, but I want to.
>>I wouldn't write "Heros" as "Hero's".
>
>You get places called "Sloppy Joe's", though: suppressed memories of
>those would explain the impulse.
True, that, and I have been in one of the more famous ones: Sloppy
Joe's in Key West, Florida. The bar claims to have been a haunt of
Ernest Hemingway, and that claim seems to be valid. The bar's
original owner, Joe Russell, was a fishing charter boat captain and
the model for Hemingway's "Freddy" in "To Have and Have Not". Papa
and Joe were fishing buddies.
The bar's "Sloppy" name came not from dribblings on Joe's shirt, but
from a bar in Cuba owned by one Jose Garcia and one where the floor
was always slippery from melted ice from the seafood brought in.
The bar could have had a more colorful name. In 1937, Russell took
over the premises of a former restaurant owned by Juan Farto. "I
drank at Farting John's" would sell a lot of tee shirts.
musika
Mike Lyle <mike_l...@yahoo.co.uk> typed:
Discussion of Sloppy Joes.
> I don't think they're called that anywhere any more, and I don't know
> _what_ to call them: loose-fitting, thickish cotton jersey, crew neck,
> long sleeves. Can be difficult to find one not inscribed "IDONTGOTO
> UNIVERSITY", "MUFC", or some such.
>>
Sounds like what I would call a sweatshirt.
--
Ray
UK
Robert Bannister
I seem to remember a Simenon novel that made frequent mention of "un
chien jaune". What colour would that have been in English?
--
Robert Bannister
Robert Bannister
No, they didn't steal it. They brought it with them. It was cattle and
women that they stole - you give me your wife and I give you this nice
red hair. I got a bridge too if you interested.
--
Robert Bannister
Richard Bollard
<inv...@peter.pmoylan.org.invalid> wrote:
>Duggy wrote:
>> On Jul 23, 11:58 am, Peter Moylan <inva...@peter.pmoylan.org.invalid>
>> wrote:
>>> Peter Duncanson (BrE) wrote:
>>>> The phrase "a ginger" is sometimes used to suggest that the person is
>>>> lacking in some way (mentally). It might be seen as analogous to a mild
>>>> racial slur based on the idea that "All gingers are the same...".
>>> It seems that some Australians - all a lot younger than I am - are using
>>> "ranga" for redheads in the same offensive way.
>>
>> Isn't the Prime Minister Welsh? She's used it and isn't too young.
>
>She's only a few years older than my eldest son. Besides, she was
>probably reacting to the people who referred to her that way.
>Immediately after stepping into the position, she referred to herself as
>Australia's first red-headed Prime Minister. "Red-headed" is neutral; I
>gather that "ranga" is a bit offensive.
>
>She can't be Welsh, because I can understand what she says. (She left
>the country at age 5.)
Ranga's offensiveness is variable. It can be used neutrally and there
is also "ranga-pride" type usage which may or may not be a reaction to
discrimination or taunting. Teasing red-heads is more good-natured
than most other forms of discrimination. It doesn't have a true, nasty
edge.
--
Richard Bollard
Canberra Australia
To email, I'm at AMT not spAMT.
Richard Bollard
<Paul....@jcu.edu.au> wrote:
>On Jul 23, 12:05�pm, Peter Moylan <inva...@peter.pmoylan.org.invalid>
>wrote:
>> I have been told that it was the Vikings who brought red hair to the
>> British Isles. I have no idea whether that's accurate.
>
>Sounds messy.
Don't get snarly.
Drew Lawson
When you do it right.
--
|Drew Lawson | Mrs. Tweedy! |
| | The chickens are revolting! |
Isabelle Cecchini
> On Sun, 24 Jul 2011 07:30:39 +0200, Isabelle Cecchini
> <isabelle...@wanadooo.invalid.fr> wrote:
>
>> Le 24/07/2011 02:35, Robert Bannister a écrit :
>>> On 23/07/11 3:40 PM, Duggy wrote:
[...]
>>>>
>>>> I had a cat called Orange that people in Australia referred to as
>>>> being ginger coloured.
>>>
>>> Don't the French call that yellow (jaune) or is that for what we call
>>> "Antoine SAMANOS. ev" <asam...@caramail.com>"fawn"?
>>>
>>>
>> Ginger cats are "chats roux" in French, while "fawn" is usually
>> translated as "fauve".
>
> "Light tan" shoes are "jaune", though, ness pa?
Quite right. Not only light tan but tan or brown shoes used to be called
"jaunes". It was slightly derogatory, I think, as only black was deemed
to be the proper colour for a gentleman's shoes. Any other hue was
considered a bit vulgar.
/L'Habit vert/, a comedy about the French academy, has this to say about
wearing "yellow shoes" at the Academy:
--------------------------------------------------------------------
PINCHET : [...]Les trois académiciens présents discutaient d’une façon
très intéressante... très approfondie, le mot camomille... A ce moment,
votre collègue, M. Rébeillard est arrivé. Ah ! dans quel état !
BENIN : Quoi ? Il était saoul ?
PINCHET : Si ce n’était que ça, il y a des précédents ! Non, messieurs,
il est entré dans la salle avec des bottines jaunes.
BENIN : Des bottines jaunes !
PINCHET : Oui, monsieur le duc, des bottines jaunes !
----------------------------------------------------------------------
A drunken academician is nothing to be remarked upon, but wearing
"yellow" boots at a dictionary session, I ask you, sir, is it to be
tolerated?
--
Isabelle Cecchini
Cheryl
professor critcized for that, but it was never clear to me why it was so
terrible for a man to wear white socks. I did ask, but only got
variations on 'But it's obvious! He's wearing white socks!'
--
Cheryl
Isabelle Cecchini
> On 24/07/11 1:30 PM, Isabelle Cecchini wrote:
>> Le 24/07/2011 02:35, Robert Bannister a écrit :
>>> Don't the French call that yellow (jaune) or is that for what we call
>>>
>>>
>> Ginger cats are "chats roux" in French, while "fawn" is usually
>> translated as "fauve".
>>
>
> chien jaune". What colour would that have been in English?
I'm not sure. I'd say it was a dirty fawn. "Jaune" often has derogatory
connotations and wouldn't be used about the coat of, let's say, a
pedigree dog.
This page about a film adaptation of Simenon's novel which was shot in
the 30s has a few film posters.
<http://www.cinema-francais.fr/les_films/films_t/films_tarride_jean/le_chien_jaune.htm>
The colours wildly vary from bright orange to bright yellow.
--
Isabelle Cecchini
tony cooper
>I wonder if that's similar to a man wearing white socks? I once heard a
>professor critcized for that, but it was never clear to me why it was so
>terrible for a man to wear white socks. I did ask, but only got
>variations on 'But it's obvious! He's wearing white socks!'
White socks are not, in themselves, a fashion failure. As I type, I
have on white sweat socks, white tennis shoes, and shorts. Quite
acceptable attire. I wouldn't go out in public with black socks with
this ensemble.
Should I change into long trousers and retain the white socks and
white tennis shoes, I remain presentable if the trousers are of the
casual type. Khakis, for example.
If I replace the white tennis shoes with dark dress shoes, I would
fall into the abyss of fashion failure.
White socks, or short black socks, with a business suit is unspeakably
inelegant. A properly dressed gentleman will never show white or skin
when he crosses his legs while sitting.
obAue: I wonder what term I could have used in place of "tennis
shoes" that would be cross-pondially acceptable. We don't use
"trainers" in the US.
--
Tony Cooper - Orlando, Florida
John Dean
> On Jul 23, 9:41 am, d...@furrfu.invalid (Drew Lawson) wrote:
>> In article <32oj27tei22d6b1fcf4ptgqb0k2dg6i...@4ax.com>
>> Mike Lyle <mike_lyle...@yahoo.co.uk> writes:
>>> I'm a Bluey, and so was me father before. This doesn't generally
>>> lead to difficulty with the expression "humping one's bluey".
>>
>> Funny you should bring that up. I was listening to the Makem
>> Brothers just the other day,
>
> [snip question on English usage]
>
> Good choice, but it was the Clancy Brothers and Tommy Makem.
It was once
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Makem_Brothers
--
John Dean
Oxford
Drew Lawson
Jerry Friedman <jerry_f...@yahoo.com> writes:
>On Jul 23, 9:41 am, d...@furrfu.invalid (Drew Lawson) wrote:
>> In article <32oj27tei22d6b1fcf4ptgqb0k2dg6i...@4ax.com>
>> Mike Lyle <mike_lyle...@yahoo.co.uk> writes:
>> >I'm a Bluey, and so was me father before. This doesn't generally lead
>> >to difficulty with the expression "humping one's bluey".
>>
>> Funny you should bring that up. I was listening to the Makem
>> Brothers just the other day,
>
>[snip question on English usage]
>
>Good choice, but it was the Clancy Brothers and Tommy Makem.
Well, what I was listening to was
The Makem Brothers With Mickey And Liam Spain,
"Like Others Did Before Us."
And I relized belatedly that he like that initially got my attention
was in the opening to "Freedom on the Wallaby":
Australia is a big country
and freedom's humpin' bluey
--
Drew Lawson | Broke my mind
| Had no spare
|
Skitt
Frank S
"tony cooper" <tony_co...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:642r27lq42obet1st...@4ax.com...
White socks with Bass Weejuns is aok; white socks, otherwise, should not be
worn with leather shoes. This was before Adidas invented leather tennis
shoes.
I see that many younger folk now wear black socks with their leather tennis
shoes. Sort of a 1960s Olympic fist-in-the-air gesture and I bet they don't
know it. Eh?
--
Frank ess
Peter Brooks
>
>
> White socks with Bass Weejuns is aok; white socks, otherwise, should not be
> worn with leather shoes. This was before Adidas invented leather tennis
> shoes.
>
if it's connected in any way with their financial skills or their
being such a hit with Popes.
Peter Duncanson (BrE)
I don't think that works in BrE. "Sneakers" are people who sneak:
tell-tales, informers.
OED has:
sneaker, n.
3. colloq. (orig. and chiefly U.S.) = sneak n. 4.
1895 I. K. Funk et al. Standard Dict. Eng. Lang.
1900 G. Ade More Fables 193 His Job on this Earth was to put on
a pair of Pneumatic Sneakers every Morning and go out and
investigate Other People's Affairs.
1914 S. Lewis Our Mr. Wrenn iv. 56 Firm but fearful in his
rubber sneakers.
sneak n. 4. is earlier, and British:
4. slang. A soft-soled, noiseless slipper or shoe.
1862 Female Life in Prison I. xvii. 211 The night~officer is
generally accustomed to wear a species of India-rubber shoes or
goloshes on her feet. These are termed 'sneaks' by the women [of
Brixton Prison].
1883 J. Greenwood In Strange Company (ed. 2) 321 'Sneaks'..are
shoes with canvas tops and indiarubber soles.
1904 A. Griffiths Fifty Years Public Service xiv. 204 His
footsteps were..deadened by the 'sneaks', or cloth slippers, worn
to conceal his whereabouts.
--
Peter Duncanson, UK
(in alt.usage.english)
tony cooper
Many tourists from certain other countries (identity withheld out of
politeness) are seen here wearing too-brief shorts and black
ankle-length socks under sandals. They might as well be wearing a
sign that says "I'm here on hols".
Mike Lyle
Would my Honourable Friend care to rephrase his answer a bit? These
days, a "sneak" is the person (AmE, "snitch", I believe).
>OED has:
>
> sneaker, n.
>
> 3. colloq. (orig. and chiefly U.S.) = sneak n. 4.
>
> 1895 I. K. Funk et al. Standard Dict. Eng. Lang.
> 1900 G. Ade More Fables 193 His Job on this Earth was to put on
> a pair of Pneumatic Sneakers every Morning and go out and
> investigate Other People's Affairs.
> 1914 S. Lewis Our Mr. Wrenn iv. 56 Firm but fearful in his
> rubber sneakers.
>
>sneak n. 4. is earlier, and British:
>
> 4. slang. A soft-soled, noiseless slipper or shoe.
>
> 1862 Female Life in Prison I. xvii. 211 The night~officer is
> generally accustomed to wear a species of India-rubber shoes or
> goloshes on her feet. These are termed 'sneaks' by the women [of
> Brixton Prison].
> 1883 J. Greenwood In Strange Company (ed. 2) 321 'Sneaks'..are
> shoes with canvas tops and indiarubber soles.
> 1904 A. Griffiths Fifty Years Public Service xiv. 204 His
> footsteps were..deadened by the 'sneaks', or cloth slippers, worn
> to conceal his whereabouts.
And I think tennis shoes are tennis shoes across any of our oceans, as
long as they're white. "Trainers" are a bit broad-brush these days:
you get "running shoes" and such -- what I wear most of the time are
rather grandiloquently styled "approach shoes", being what one
imagines oneself wearing while walking up to the foot of Cho Oyu
before changing into the real climbing gear.
--
Mike.
Mike Lyle
<isabelle...@wanadooo.invalid.fr> wrote:
>Le 24/07/2011 23:20, Mike Lyle a �crit :
>> On Sun, 24 Jul 2011 07:30:39 +0200, Isabelle Cecchini
>> <isabelle...@wanadooo.invalid.fr> wrote:
>>
>>> Le 24/07/2011 02:35, Robert Bannister a �crit :
>>>> On 23/07/11 3:40 PM, Duggy wrote:
>[...]
>>>>>
>>>>> I had a cat called Orange that people in Australia referred to as
>>>>> being ginger coloured.
>>>>
>>>> Don't the French call that yellow (jaune) or is that for what we call
>>>> "Antoine SAMANOS. ev" <asam...@caramail.com>"fawn"?
>>>>
>>>>
>>> Ginger cats are "chats roux" in French, while "fawn" is usually
>>> translated as "fauve".
>>
>> "Light tan" shoes are "jaune", though, ness pa?
>
>Quite right. Not only light tan but tan or brown shoes used to be called
>"jaunes". It was slightly derogatory, I think, as only black was deemed
>to be the proper colour for a gentleman's shoes. Any other hue was
>considered a bit vulgar.
>
>/L'Habit vert/, a comedy about the French academy, has this to say about
>wearing "yellow shoes" at the Academy:
>--------------------------------------------------------------------
>PINCHET : [...]Les trois acad�miciens pr�sents discutaient d�une fa�on
>tr�s int�ressante... tr�s approfondie, le mot camomille... A ce moment,
>votre coll�gue, M. R�beillard est arriv�. Ah ! dans quel �tat !
>BENIN : Quoi ? Il �tait saoul ?
>PINCHET : Si ce n��tait que �a, il y a des pr�c�dents ! Non, messieurs,
>il est entr� dans la salle avec des bottines jaunes.
>BENIN : Des bottines jaunes !
>PINCHET : Oui, monsieur le duc, des bottines jaunes !
>----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>A drunken academician is nothing to be remarked upon, but wearing
>"yellow" boots at a dictionary session, I ask you, sir, is it to be
>tolerated?
Similar rules applied in Britain, too; and to some extent they still
do. Black for official occasions. A favourite Stanley Holloway
recitation piece refers:
http://lyricsplayground.com/alpha/songs/b/brahnboots.shtml
Julian Critchley, when first elected a Tory MP, rolled up to the House
in his Hush Puppies, to receive a Serious Rebuke. The stinging
reprimand consistred of an older Member sidling up to him, quietly
uttering the words "You're wearing su�de shoes!", and rapidly walking
off.
--
Mike.
Mike Lyle
<isabelle...@wanadooo.invalid.fr> wrote:
>Le 25/07/2011 02:50, Robert Bannister a écrit :
>> On 24/07/11 1:30 PM, Isabelle Cecchini wrote:
>>> Le 24/07/2011 02:35, Robert Bannister a écrit :
>[...]
>>>> Don't the French call that yellow (jaune) or is that for what we call
>>>> "fawn"?
>>>>
>>>>
>>> Ginger cats are "chats roux" in French, while "fawn" is usually
>>> translated as "fauve".
>>>
>>
>> I seem to remember a Simenon novel that made frequent mention of "un
>> chien jaune". What colour would that have been in English?
>
>I'm not sure. I'd say it was a dirty fawn. "Jaune" often has derogatory
>connotations and wouldn't be used about the coat of, let's say, a
>pedigree dog.
>
"If I had a yaller dog that didn't have no more sense than a body's
conscience..."
Aus wild dogs, dingoes, are, or were, also called "yellow dogs".
>This page about a film adaptation of Simenon's novel which was shot in
>the 30s has a few film posters.
>
><http://www.cinema-francais.fr/les_films/films_t/films_tarride_jean/le_chien_jaune.htm>
>
>The colours wildly vary from bright orange to bright yellow.
--
Mike.
Peter Duncanson (BrE)
wrote:
>
>Julian Critchley, when first elected a Tory MP, rolled up to the House
>in his Hush Puppies, to receive a Serious Rebuke. The stinging
>reprimand consistred of an older Member sidling up to him, quietly
>uttering the words "You're wearing suède shoes!", and rapidly walking
>off.
I would be in severe trouble then. I've started wearing suede trainers
from Marks and Spencer:
http://tinyurl.com/3bordoj
Not only are these trainers, they are also "suede" rather than "suède".
Leslie Danks
[...]
> Julian Critchley, when first elected a Tory MP, rolled up to the House
> in his Hush Puppies, to receive a Serious Rebuke. The stinging
> reprimand consistred of an older Member sidling up to him, quietly
> uttering the words "You're wearing suède shoes!", and rapidly walking
> off.
Reminds me of a story (possibly apocryphal) of an aged academic at a very
traditional English university who, on being introduced to a Scottish
academic for the first time in his life, became infused with horror and
loathing and, finally, forced out the words "You .... Scotsman!"
--
Les
(BrE)
Adam Funk
>> White socks are not, in themselves, a fashion failure. As I type, I
>> have on white sweat socks, white tennis shoes, and shorts. Quite
>> acceptable attire. I wouldn't go out in public with black socks with
>> this ensemble.
>>
>> Should I change into long trousers and retain the white socks and
>> white tennis shoes, I remain presentable if the trousers are of the
>> casual type. Khakis, for example.
>>
>> If I replace the white tennis shoes with dark dress shoes, I would
>> fall into the abyss of fashion failure.
>>
>> White socks, or short black socks, with a business suit is unspeakably
>> inelegant. A properly dressed gentleman will never show white or skin
>> when he crosses his legs while sitting.
>>
>> obAue: I wonder what term I could have used in place of "tennis
>> shoes" that would be cross-pondially acceptable. We don't use
>> "trainers" in the US.
>
> Sneakers?
AIUI, AmE "sneakers" = BrE "trainers". I'd expect "tennis shoes" to
mean the same in both places (although I don't play tennis).
--
Anything invented before your 15th birthday is the order of nature.
Anything invented between your 15th and 35th birthday is new and
exciting. Anything invented after that day, however, is against
nature and should be prohibited. [Douglas Adams]
R H Draney
>
>On 2011-07-25, Skitt wrote:
>>>
>>> obAue: I wonder what term I could have used in place of "tennis
>>> shoes" that would be cross-pondially acceptable. We don't use
>>> "trainers" in the US.
>>
>> Sneakers?
>
>AIUI, AmE "sneakers" = BrE "trainers". I'd expect "tennis shoes" to
>mean the same in both places (although I don't play tennis).
The CanE counterpart is, I believe, "runners", which in parts of the US South is
what BrE calls "hose ladders"; lower-limb-related but no closer connection....r
--
Me? Sarcastic?
Yeah, right.
R H Draney
I'd love to show up in my orange Crocs:
http://farm1.static.flickr.com/58/201106711_85d193dd64.jpg
R H Draney
>
>On Mon, 25 Jul 2011 16:58:26 +0200, Isabelle Cecchini
><isabelle...@wanadooo.invalid.fr> wrote:
>>
>>I'm not sure. I'd say it was a dirty fawn. "Jaune" often has derogatory
>>connotations and wouldn't be used about the coat of, let's say, a
>>pedigree dog.
>>
>
>"If I had a yaller dog that didn't have no more sense than a body's
>conscience..."
>
>Aus wild dogs, dingoes, are, or were, also called "yellow dogs".
I always pictured a dingo in Shannon's song:
Takin' a trip up to Abergavenny
Hopin' the weather is fine.
If you should see a red dog runnin' free
Well you know he's mine.
Jerry Friedman
> In article <5730ddda-c97c-4147-adf6-9d1b03e0a...@fv14g2000vbb.googlegroups.com>
> Jerry Friedman <jerry_fried...@yahoo.com> writes:
>
> >On Jul 23, 9:41 am, d...@furrfu.invalid (Drew Lawson) wrote:
> >> Funny you should bring that up. I was listening to the Makem
> >> Brothers just the other day,
>
> >[snip question on English usage]
>
> >Good choice, but it was the Clancy Brothers and Tommy Makem.
>
> Well, what I was listening to was
> The Makem Brothers With Mickey And Liam Spain,
> "Like Others Did Before Us."
That's what I get for not checking things I'm sure of.
--
Jerry Friedman
Peter Duncanson (BrE)
>BrE filted:
>>
>>On Mon, 25 Jul 2011 19:56:41 +0100, Mike Lyle <mike_l...@yahoo.co.uk>
>>wrote:
>>
>>
>>>
>>>Julian Critchley, when first elected a Tory MP, rolled up to the House
>>>in his Hush Puppies, to receive a Serious Rebuke. The stinging
>>>reprimand consistred of an older Member sidling up to him, quietly
>>>uttering the words "You're wearing suÚde shoes!", and rapidly walking
>>>off.
>>
>>I would be in severe trouble then. I've started wearing suede trainers
>>from Marks and Spencer:
>>http://tinyurl.com/3bordoj
>>
>>Not only are these trainers, they are also "suede" rather than "suÚde".
>
>I'd love to show up in my orange Crocs:
>
> http://farm1.static.flickr.com/58/201106711_85d193dd64.jpg
>
>....r
You sure they're not ginger? :-)
Robert Bannister
I have actually seen in dogs, but I get the idea.
--
Robert Bannister
Robert Bannister
> Australia is a big country
> and freedom's humpin' bluey
>
I just hope Bluey didn't mind.
--
Robert Bannister
tony cooper
wrote:
>Adam Funk filted:
Isn't a run a ladder anywhere in the US? And multiple runs, runners
anywhere in the US? We need a female voice here.
tony cooper
When I buy this type of shoe I usually go to Sports Authority (a chain
of stores with a location convenient to me)
They have aisle of choices, and shoes for tennis takes up only some of
the space. Shoes are categorized by the activity of the wearer:
tennis, running, walking, toning & conditioning, cross-training,
classic retro, and casual. I'm omitting the designations for
particular sports like basketball (high tops) or soccer, football, and
baseball which are cleated.
To me, they are all "tennis shoes" or "tennies". I pick by style and
price. The style has to be low shoes in white only. I usually end up
with K-Swiss or Rockports.
R H Draney
>>
>>I'd love to show up in my orange Crocs:
>>
>> http://farm1.static.flickr.com/58/201106711_85d193dd64.jpg
>
"Coral", if one wishes to order them from the maker....
(Re-requoted text from your earlier post to show the degeneration of accented
characters over time)....r
Mike Lyle
>On 2011-07-25 12:12 PM, Isabelle Cecchini wrote:
>> Le 24/07/2011 23:20, Mike Lyle a �crit :
>>> On Sun, 24 Jul 2011 07:30:39 +0200, Isabelle Cecchini
>>> <isabelle...@wanadooo.invalid.fr> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Le 24/07/2011 02:35, Robert Bannister a �crit :
>>>>> On 23/07/11 3:40 PM, Duggy wrote:
>> [...]
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I had a cat called Orange that people in Australia referred to as
>>>>>> being ginger coloured.
>>>>>
>>>>> Don't the French call that yellow (jaune) or is that for what we call
>>>>> "Antoine SAMANOS. ev" <asam...@caramail.com>"fawn"?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> Ginger cats are "chats roux" in French, while "fawn" is usually
>>>> translated as "fauve".
>>>
>>> "Light tan" shoes are "jaune", though, ness pa?
>>
>> Quite right. Not only light tan but tan or brown shoes used to be called
>> "jaunes". It was slightly derogatory, I think, as only black was deemed
>> to be the proper colour for a gentleman's shoes. Any other hue was
>> considered a bit vulgar.
>>
>> /L'Habit vert/, a comedy about the French academy, has this to say about
>> wearing "yellow shoes" at the Academy:
>> --------------------------------------------------------------------
>> PINCHET : [...]Les trois acad�miciens pr�sents discutaient d�une fa�on
>> tr�s int�ressante... tr�s approfondie, le mot camomille... A ce moment,
>> votre coll�gue, M. R�beillard est arriv�. Ah ! dans quel �tat !
>> BENIN : Quoi ? Il �tait saoul ?
>> PINCHET : Si ce n��tait que �a, il y a des pr�c�dents ! Non, messieurs,
>> il est entr� dans la salle avec des bottines jaunes.
>> BENIN : Des bottines jaunes !
>> PINCHET : Oui, monsieur le duc, des bottines jaunes !
>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>> A drunken academician is nothing to be remarked upon, but wearing
>> "yellow" boots at a dictionary session, I ask you, sir, is it to be
>> tolerated?
>>
>>
>I wonder if that's similar to a man wearing white socks? I once heard a
>professor critcized for that, but it was never clear to me why it was so
>terrible for a man to wear white socks. I did ask, but only got
>variations on 'But it's obvious! He's wearing white socks!'
Robert Graves, while a Professor in Egypt, once rolled up (I think for
the hell of it, but maybe because they were the only clean ones) in
white socks, only to find in the next few days that he'd started a
fashion among the students.
--
Mike.
Dr Nick
> On Fri, 22 Jul 2011 11:22:29 +0100, "Peter Duncanson (BrE)"
> <ma...@peterduncanson.net> wrote:
>
>>On Fri, 22 Jul 2011 12:19:52 +0800, David D S <inv...@invalid.invalid>
>>wrote:
>>
>>>In article <blch27h1b0fvflsuo...@4ax.com>,
>>>ma...@peterduncanson.net says...
>>>>
>>>> On Thu, 21 Jul 2011 23:50:40 +0100, "Peter Duncanson (BrE)"
>>>> <ma...@peterduncanson.net> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> >It has a hard initial g only when used in as a noun in sense 2.
>>>>
>>>> It has hard gs (g's) only when used in as a noun in sense 2.
>>>
>>>My first thought on reading the start of the thread was that the
>>>pronunciation which uses hard gs is a melding together of "ginger"
>>>(pronounced as in the spice), and the insulting slang term (as far as I
>>>know, used in BrEng only) "minger".
>>
>>That's when "minger" is said with a hard g. I'm more familiar with it
>>with a soft g.
>>
>>I've lived in Northern Ireland since 1972. It was here that I met the
>>ancestor of "minger", the word "minging". Hereabouts the final "ing" in
>>"minging" is generally pronounced as indicated by the way the word is
>>often spelt: "mingun" (soft g).
>>
>>OED:
>>"Ming": orig. and chiefly Sc. Human excrement; an unpleasant smell
>> (now the usual sense).
>>
>>"Minging: slang (orig. Sc.). That smells bad, stinking; (more generally)
>> unpleasant, foul. Also: very drunk".
>
> Add an "e" and it gets more vulgar. Minge = female pubic hair
I don't think the E is needed. This caused great hilarity a few years
back - this is the Google cache as the page seems to have gone:
<http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:jdOVlOmmQyMJ:www.electraisd.net/alumni/display_class.aspx%3Fy%3D1993+yearbook+ginger+minge&cd=3&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=uk&source=www.google.co.uk>
Right hand side, towards the bottom.
For the record, I've never heard ginger-with-a-hard-G.
I do remember a funny thing on Radio 4 (Milton Jones?) along the lines
of:
"Whose planet is this?"
"The Emperor Ming's. And the Empress is a bit whiffy too".
--
Online waterways route planner | http://canalplan.eu
Plan trips, see photos, check facilities | http://canalplan.org.uk
Dr Nick
> On 23/07/11 12:08 PM, R H Draney wrote:
>> Robert Bannister filted:
>>>
>>> On 22/07/11 6:29 AM, Skitt wrote:
>>>>
>>>> By the way, do you have the "hard g" definition right? It should be as
>>>> in "go", so your "fingers" reference is not a good one.
>>>
>>> Is this Skitt's Law in operation? Surely you don't pronounce "fingers"
>>> like "whingers"? "Finger" does have a hard g just like "go", but not
>>> like "flanges".
>>
>> Shirley you mean "phalanges"....
>>
>> This is about the point where I'm reminded that in the song "Old Brown Shoe",
>> George Harrison (he of the two soft Gs) rhymed "singer" and "finger"....r
>>
> Most people in northern England do.
I do. The NW (Wigan, Liverpool) in particular has a particularly
distinct 'g' following 'n' in many words where many (most?) accents have
a nasalised n.
Of course, there's a soft 'g' in wharfinger, just to add to the confusion.
esh...@gmail.com
> On Jul 22, 7:58 am, bill carroll <l...@sympatico.ca> wrote:
> > The subject line is the question. A canadian friend who has lived in
> > London for about six years reports some Brits refer to redheads as
> > 'gingers', the first g being hard. It sounds like fingers except the
> > first letter is a hard g. Can someone help? /Thanks veryi much.
> > bill carroll, toronto
>
> Help how? In England, America and Australia "Ginger" is one way to
> describe a redhead.
>
> Another way (in Australia at least) is Ranga.
>
> Locally we have a gang of them.
>
> http://www.townsvillebulletin.com.au/article/2011/07/13/247551_news.html
>
> I wish they'd call them "The Ranga Gang"
>
> I also with their mascot was a singing Ape who featured on GANGajang's
> second album.
>
> But mostly so I couldn't say "The Ranga Gang's Orangutan sang on
> GANGajang's GangAgain"
>
> But I can't say that.
>
> ===
> = DUG.
> ===
In bengali ranga means red. But maybe that's not relevant here.