How widespread is "EK Cetera"?!
Marko
Despite having a busy life, I still find the time to get imperially
irked by folks who say "EK cetera" instead of "ET cetera". It is more
common to hear it pronounced this way than the correct way in Ottawa. Do
you hear it too?
Could this corrupted pronunciation be caused by the influence of the
headache medication "Excedrin"?
Pass me a Kleenex! ;)
--
Marko
- - - - - - - - - - - -
"Peu de gens sont assez sages pour preferer le blame qui leur est utile
a la louange qui les trahit." - - La Rochefoucauld
B.W. Battin
Here's another one. I hear people from all over the US say IGzactly
instead of "exactly." I'm probably guilty of it myself, though I try
to say it properly.
Another one: VONE-erable for "vulnerable."
And vacUME for "vacuum."
There are probably a few zillion more of them, but those are the ones
that come to mind.
BWB
tah...@azstarnet.com
On Thu, 23 Jan 1997 18:24:38 GMT, bba...@ix.netcom.com (B.W. Battin)
wrote:
Off-ten while eating sal-mun?
Hayford
Larry Preuss
In article <casseres-230...@cassda.apple.com>, cass...@apple.com
(David Casseres) wrote:
> I think "excetera" is much older than Excedrin. It's a cousin to
> "asterick" and "Antartic."
Oh, what a mistake. You certainly meant "Anardic."
Larry "I've heard it on the radio, so it's correct" Preuss
--
Larry Zirlin
Marko wrote:
>
> Despite having a busy life, I still find the time to get imperially
> irked by folks who say "EK cetera" instead of "ET cetera". It is more
> common to hear it pronounced this way than the correct way in Ottawa. Do
> you hear it too?
>
> Could this corrupted pronunciation be caused by the influence of the
> headache medication "Excedrin"?
>
> Pass me a Kleenex! ;)
>
> --
> Marko
> - - - - - - - - - - - -
> "Peu de gens sont assez sages pour preferer le blame qui leur est utile
> a la louange qui les trahit." - - La Rochefoucauld
Never mind the pronunciation--the guy I work for WRITES it "ect"
--
Larry Zirlin
Throb baffled and curious brain
throwing out questions and answers
Walt Whitman
David Casseres
> Despite having a busy life, I still find the time to get imperially
> irked by folks who say "EK cetera" instead of "ET cetera". It is more
> common to hear it pronounced this way than the correct way in Ottawa. Do
> you hear it too?
>
> Could this corrupted pronunciation be caused by the influence of the
> headache medication "Excedrin"?
>
> Pass me a Kleenex! ;)
I think "excetera" is much older than Excedrin. It's a cousin to
"asterick" and "Antartic."
Jonathan Mason
9mu...@magi.com (Marko) wrote:
>Despite having a busy life, I still find the time to get imperially
>irked by folks who say "EK cetera" instead of "ET cetera". It is more
>common to hear it pronounced this way than the correct way in Ottawa. Do
>you hear it too?
>
I don't here it that much, but the written form of the abbreviation ECT
is rampant, and potentially a cause of lawsuits when doctors write orders
for Tylenol tabs ii p.r.n., push fluids, ECT, and the surprised patient
who has nothing worse than a cold in the head is carted off for few
joules of Electro Convulsive Treatment.
B.W. Battin
On Thu, 23 Jan 1997 20:41:56 -0500, Larry Zirlin
<LAR...@worldnet.att.net> wrote:
>B.W. Battin wrote:
>>
>> On Thu, 23 Jan 1997 19:55:06 -0500, Larry Zirlin
>> <LAR...@worldnet.att.net> wrote:
>>
>> >Marko wrote:
>> >>
>> >> Despite having a busy life, I still find the time to get imperially
>> >> irked by folks who say "EK cetera" instead of "ET cetera". It is more
>> >> common to hear it pronounced this way than the correct way in Ottawa. Do
>> >> you hear it too?
>> >>
>> >> Could this corrupted pronunciation be caused by the influence of the
>> >> headache medication "Excedrin"?
>> >>
>> >> Pass me a Kleenex! ;)
>> >>
>> >> --
>> >> Marko
>> >> - - - - - - - - - - - -
>> >> "Peu de gens sont assez sages pour preferer le blame qui leur est utile
>> >> a la louange qui les trahit." - - La Rochefoucauld
>> >
>> >Never mind the pronunciation--the guy I work for WRITES it "ect"
>> >--
>> >Larry Zirlin
>> >
>> >Throb baffled and curious brain
>> >throwing out questions and answers
>> > Walt Whitman
>>
>> But just think, if you can force yourself to write "ect" maybe you can
>> be the one in charge of that "bidness" someday.
>>
>> BWBIn the immortal words of Elvis Costello: Don't get me started, I could
>talk all night.
>
>This is the same guy who told me he wanted to go "the whole ten yards,"
>that it was already "the twelfth hour," that we would blow our
>competition "into the water," that he didn't want to be "the greasy
>wheel," and that he was shocked when he saw his friend in the hospital
>"rolled in on a guernsey." These are just the ones that pop to mind.
>O, and the word "supposibily" has become part of the secret office
>language.
>
>I've already taken a pass on the business.
>--
>Larry Zirlin
>
>Throb baffled and curious brain
>throwing out questions and answers
> Walt Whitman
Larry, thank you. You gave me the best laugh I've had in
weeks--especially the part about the gurnsey. (For your sake, I hope
he doesn't read news groups.)
Good luck. And watch out for those greasy wheels. Some of them may
be on cows.
BWB
B.W. Battin
weeks--especially the part about the guernsey. (For your sake, I hope
curtis cameron
B.W. Battin wrote:
> Here's another one. I hear people from all over the US say IGzactly
> instead of "exactly." I'm probably guilty of it myself, though I try
> to say it properly.
I think it's interesting that people from different areas consider
certain sound differences to be important, when I can't even hear
the difference. I can't tell any difference between the sound of
IGzactly and how someone might otherwise pronounce "exactly,"
unless you say the words extremely slowly.
When I was visiting Germany and asked how to pronounce the name of
the beer I was drinking ("Koenigen"), my German host would say the
name, then I would say what I thought was exactly the same thing
he had just said. But he would tell me that it was not right at
all.
I learned when I was almost thirty years old, that some people
pronounce "pen" and "pin" differently. Not that I can hear the
difference, much less say it.
-curtis cameron
posting from WGS-84 32.975 north, 96.709 west
Larry Zirlin
Larry Preuss wrote:
>
> > On Thu, 23 Jan 1997 20:41:56 -0500, Larry Zirlin
> > <LAR...@worldnet.att.net> wrote:
>
>
> > >This is the same guy who told me he wanted to go "the whole ten yards,"
> > >that it was already "the twelfth hour," that we would blow our
> > >competition "into the water," that he didn't want to be "the greasy
> > >wheel," and that he was shocked when he saw his friend in the hospital
> > >"rolled in on a guernsey." These are just the ones that pop to mind.
> > >O, and the word "supposibily" has become part of the secret office
> > >language.
> > >
> > >I've already taken a pass on the business.
> > >--
> > >Larry Zirlin
>
> These bits can be used to amusing effect. In *A Suitable Boy* (I wish I
> could remember the author at the moment) a character says "A lot of
> bridgewater has gone by since then," and "It flowed off my back like duck's
> water."
>
> Larry Preuss
>
> --
> Believe me, it isn't intentional. I know the man since 1979 & he knows
not what he says. He isn't trying to amuse me. He is singularly
humorless, by which I mean he doesn't even know when things are funny
until other people start to laugh. But you should see him do arithmetic
in his head!
Brian J Goggin
On Fri, 24 Jan 1997 09:29:08 -0500, lpr...@provide.net (Larry Preuss)
wrote:
[...]
>I wonder if you might be failing to recognize an intentional malapropist.
>These bits can be used to amusing effect. In *A Suitable Boy* (I wish I
>could remember the author at the moment)
[...]
Vikram Seth? Sorry; I can't check at the moment.
bjg
B.W. Battin
>Marko wrote:
>>
>> Despite having a busy life, I still find the time to get imperially
>> irked by folks who say "EK cetera" instead of "ET cetera". It is more
>> common to hear it pronounced this way than the correct way in Ottawa. Do
>> you hear it too?
>>
>> Could this corrupted pronunciation be caused by the influence of the
>> headache medication "Excedrin"?
>>
>> Pass me a Kleenex! ;)
>>
>> --
>> Marko
>> - - - - - - - - - - - -
>> "Peu de gens sont assez sages pour preferer le blame qui leur est utile
>> a la louange qui les trahit." - - La Rochefoucauld
>
>Never mind the pronunciation--the guy I work for WRITES it "ect"
>--
>Larry Zirlin
>
>Throb baffled and curious brain
>throwing out questions and answers
> Walt Whitman
Ralph M Jones
B.W. Battin wrote:
> But just think, if you can force yourself to write "ect" maybe you can
> be the one in charge of that "bidness" someday.
>
> BWB
That's not a very nice allusion. In some parts of the country your
level of education can be determined by whether or not you pronounce the
"d" in "business".
Stuart Leichter
> In article <5c7pk6$t...@news.istar.ca>, 9mu...@magi.com (Marko) wrote:
>
> > Despite having a busy life, I still find the time to get imperially
> > irked by folks who say "EK cetera" instead of "ET cetera". It is more
> > common to hear it pronounced this way than the correct way in Ottawa. Do
> > you hear it too?
> >
> > Could this corrupted pronunciation be caused by the influence of the
> > headache medication "Excedrin"?
> >
> > Pass me a Kleenex! ;)
>
> I think "excetera" is much older than Excedrin. It's a cousin to
> "asterick" and "Antartic."
Re "Excedrin": every once in a while, the TV and radio geniuses demand our
attention by making intentional mistakes. In an Excedrin ad from some
years ago (I've been neglecting TV and radio recently), the name is
pronounced "ex-sed-er-in" twice in the first 10 seconds or so, but
"ex-sed-rin" at the end, after we are waiting for it attentively. David
might be onto sump'n, awright.
--
Stuart Leichter
Larry Preuss
> On Thu, 23 Jan 1997 20:41:56 -0500, Larry Zirlin
> <LAR...@worldnet.att.net> wrote:
[snip]
> >This is the same guy who told me he wanted to go "the whole ten yards,"
> >that it was already "the twelfth hour," that we would blow our
> >competition "into the water," that he didn't want to be "the greasy
> >wheel," and that he was shocked when he saw his friend in the hospital
> >"rolled in on a guernsey." These are just the ones that pop to mind.
> >O, and the word "supposibily" has become part of the secret office
> >language.
> >
> >I've already taken a pass on the business.
> >--
> >Larry Zirlin
I wonder if you might be failing to recognize an intentional malapropist.
These bits can be used to amusing effect. In *A Suitable Boy* (I wish I
Donna Richoux
> >Here's another one. I hear people from all over the US say IGzactly
> >instead of "exactly." I'm probably guilty of it myself, though I try
> >to say it properly.
I assume it is the gz sound you are objecting to. (The initial E is
really just a schwa.) Do you also object to a gz sound in:
example
examine, exam
exalted
exasperated
exist
exhaust
exhibit
And so on? Look in a dictionary -- egz is the normal pronunciation for
almost every word where ex- appears before a vowel sound, especially for
common words.
If I heard someone say "ek-sample" or "ek-sist" I would assume they were
not a native speaker of English. (Just maybe the Brits do this -- I'm
speaking from an American viewpoint.)
Some words sound OK to me either way, such as ek-sit/eg-zit and
luk-shury/lug-zhury.
Best wishes -- Donna Richoux
(I am going to try posting this as well as e-mailing, but I have reason
to believe that won't work. If this actually makes its way around the
world, I would love to hear so from a few locations.)
B.W. Battin
On Sat, 25 Jan 1997 10:23:57 +0100, tr...@xs4all.nl (Donna Richoux)
wrote:
>> On Thu, 23 Jan 1997 18:24:38 GMT, bba...@ix.netcom.com (B.W. Battin)
>> wrote:
>> >Here's another one. I hear people from all over the US say IGzactly
>> >instead of "exactly." I'm probably guilty of it myself, though I try
>> >to say it properly.
>
>I assume it is the gz sound you are objecting to. (The initial E is
>really just a schwa.) Do you also object to a gz sound in:
>
>example
>examine, exam
>exalted
>exasperated
>exist
>exhaust
>exhibit
>
>And so on? Look in a dictionary -- egz is the normal pronunciation for
>almost every word where ex- appears before a vowel sound, especially for
>common words.
>
You're right. My dictionary offers ig-zactly the same pronunciation.
Although ig-zist, ig-zhaust, etc. flunk the does-it-sound-right-to-me
test every time, I do not presume to argue with the dictionary.
Thank you for pointing this out to me.
Your e-mailed response never made it to the Southwestern US, btw.
BWB
Earle Jones
In article <32E808...@worldnet.att.net>, Larry Zirlin
<LAR...@worldnet.att.net> wrote:
> Marko wrote:
> >
> > Despite having a busy life, I still find the time to get imperially
> > irked by folks who say "EK cetera" instead of "ET cetera".
========
"How widespread is EK Cetera?"
Roughly, about as widespread as *ekspecially*.
earle
=====
__
__/\_\
/\_\/_/
\/_/\_\ earle
\/_/ jones
Spy
Larry Zirlin <LAR...@worldnet.att.net> wrote in article
<32E951...@worldnet.att.net>...
> > Believe me, it isn't intentional. I know the man since 1979 & he knows
> not what he says. He isn't trying to amuse me. He is singularly
> humorless, by which I mean he doesn't even know when things are funny
> until other people start to laugh. But you should see him do arithmetic
> in his head!
My boss used to refer to being "behind the H ball". Hard to keep your face
straight in meetings. On the EK cetera thread, I've noticed recently a
lot of pacifics for specific. There's a fine line between metathesis and
ignorance.
--
Spy
co...@ibl.bm
Raymot
In article <lpreuss-ya0240800...@news.provide.net>,
lpr...@provide.net says...
>
>In article <casseres-230...@cassda.apple.com>, cass...@apple.com
>(David Casseres) wrote:
>
>
>> I think "excetera" is much older than Excedrin. It's a cousin to
>> "asterick" and "Antartic."
>
> Larry "I've heard it on the radio, so it's correct" Preuss
>
>--
far too often though. "He's going into hospital for tests,
x-rays, ect." -- which, to me, means electroconvulsive
therapy. It's a wonder how popular it's become despite all
the controversy.
But perhaps Americans call ECT EKT, in which case, the
irony is lost (as in EKG -- whereas Brit/AusE calls an
electrocardiograph an ECG in blatant, and justified,
disregard for the Greek root).
Raymot
=======
Brisbane, Australia.
rmot...@powerup.com.au
http://www.powerup.com.au/~rmottare/
[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[
This week's advice -- Neuter your pets.
John Cowan
Raymot wrote:
> But perhaps Americans call ECT EKT, in which case, the
> irony is lost (as in EKG -- whereas Brit/AusE calls an
> electrocardiograph an ECG in blatant, and justified,
> disregard for the Greek root).
We don't: ECT it is. I suspect that "EKG" is a borrowing from German.
> This week's advice -- Neuter your pets.
Amen!
--
John Cowan co...@ccil.org
e'osai ko sarji la lojban
Keith C. Ivey
cass...@apple.com (David Casseres) wrote:
>I think "excetera" is much older than Excedrin. It's a cousin to
>"asterick" and "Antartic."
I agree that "excetera" is old, but I'm not sure how you're
counting relationships.
I'd call "Antarctic" a cousin to "doubt" and "debt". That is,
it was spelled and pronounced for centuries without the extra
consonant in the middle, and then some pedants decided to put
the consonant in to make it match the Latin/Greek ancestor. The
only difference is that no one uses the spelling pronunciations
for "doubt" and "debt" (maybe "Antarctic" is a cousin to "often"
as well).
Keith C. Ivey <kci...@cpcug.org> Washington, DC
Contributing Editor/Webmaster
The Editorial Eye <http://www.eeicom.com/eye/>
Phil Nichols
David Casseres wrote:
>
> In article <5c7pk6$t...@news.istar.ca>, 9mu...@magi.com (Marko) wrote:
>
> > Despite having a busy life, I still find the time to get imperially
> > common to hear it pronounced this way than the correct way in Ottawa. Do
> > you hear it too?
> >
> > Could this corrupted pronunciation be caused by the influence of the
> > headache medication "Excedrin"?
> >
> > Pass me a Kleenex! ;)
>
> "asterick" and "Antartic."
...and perhaps Scalectrix...
Phil Nichols
Wolverhampton, UK
Christopher Perrott
Keith C. Ivey wrote:
>
> I'd call "Antarctic" a cousin to "doubt" and "debt". That is,
> it was spelled and pronounced for centuries without the extra
> consonant in the middle,
Really? I thought an antartic was a semi-trailer for
transporting ants in.
--
Chris Perrott
Stuart Leichter
In article <32f4c34d...@newsreader.digex.net>, kci...@cpcug.org
(Keith C. Ivey) wrote:
> cass...@apple.com (David Casseres) wrote:
>
> >I think "excetera" is much older than Excedrin. It's a cousin to
> >"asterick" and "Antartic."
>
> I agree that "excetera" is old, but I'm not sure how you're
> counting relationships.
>
> I'd call "Antarctic" a cousin to "doubt" and "debt". That is,
> it was spelled and pronounced for centuries without the extra
> consonant in the middle, and then some pedants decided to put
> the consonant in to make it match the Latin/Greek ancestor. The
> only difference is that no one uses the spelling pronunciations
> for "doubt" and "debt" (maybe "Antarctic" is a cousin to "often"
> as well).
It's these kinds of posts on the Innernet that might give guerrilla
pedants in Conneticut haf-baked ideas like asking their goverment to
declare all Wensdays in Febuary, as well as Chrismas, days for sutle
pronounciations to be idenified.
--
Stuart Leichter
Penny Dalton
> "How widespread is EK Cetera?"
>
> Roughly, about as widespread as *ekspecially*.
How about going on an excalator?
Or escavating a hole using an escavator?
Christopher Perrott
Bob Cunningham wrote:
> In both British
> and American dictionaries, "half", "Wednesday", "Christmas", and
> "subtle" have no other pronunciations than the ones he seems to be
> representing as examples of incorrect pronunciation.
> , but I would be surprised to find
> any English dictionary that suggested that the "l" in "half", the "b" in
> "subtle", the "d" in "Wednesday", or the "t" in "Christmas" should be
> pronounced.
I say Wenzdee, but I've definitely heard Wedduhnzday. Maybe it's a
pronunciation that is used in Australia?
--
Chris Perrott
Bob Cunningham
s.m...@ix.netcom.com (Polar) said:
>On 29 Jan 1997 17:59:17 GMT, slei...@nb.net (Stuart Leichter) wrote:
[...]
>>It's these kinds of posts on the Innernet that might give guerrilla
>>pedants in Conneticut haf-baked ideas like asking their goverment to
>>declare all Wensdays in Febuary, as well as Chrismas, days for sutle
>>pronounciations to be idenified.
>
>Very sussinctly stated. This can be no assident.
>
Polar's comment would have been appropriate if Stuart had presented
a valid list of sloppy pronunciations, but he didn't. In both British
and American dictionaries, "half", "Wednesday", "Christmas", and
"subtle" have no other pronunciations than the ones he seems to be
representing as examples of incorrect pronunciation. Also, in both
British and American dictionaries the pronunciation "febyooary" is shown
as a fully acceptable alternative pronunciation.
The particular dictionaries I'm referring to are _The New Shorter
Oxford English Dictionary_ (1993 edition) and _The Random House
Webster's College Dictionary_ (1995), but I would be surprised to find
Jonathan Mason
Christopher Perrott <cper...@pacific.net.sg> wrote:
>Bob Cunningham wrote:
>
>> In both British
>> and American dictionaries, "half", "Wednesday", "Christmas", and
>> "subtle" have no other pronunciations than the ones he seems to be
>> representing as examples of incorrect pronunciation.
>
>> any English dictionary that suggested that the "l" in "half", the "b" in
>> "subtle", the "d" in "Wednesday", or the "t" in "Christmas" should be
>> pronounced.
>
>pronunciation that is used in Australia?
>
perhaps, for suBtle, though I confess to not having checked any
dictionaries for pronunciation tips. I certainly pronounce the t is
Christmas.
Spy
Christopher Perrott <cper...@pacific.net.sg> wrote in article
<32F18A...@pacific.net.sg>...
> Bob Cunningham wrote:
>
> > In both British
> > and American dictionaries, "half", "Wednesday", "Christmas", and
> > "subtle" have no other pronunciations than the ones he seems to be
> > representing as examples of incorrect pronunciation.
>
> > , but I would be surprised to find
> > any English dictionary that suggested that the "l" in "half", the "b"
in
> > "subtle", the "d" in "Wednesday", or the "t" in "Christmas" should be
> > pronounced.
>
> I say Wenzdee, but I've definitely heard Wedduhnzday. Maybe it's a
> pronunciation that is used in Australia?
In Bermuda "Wenesday" is extremely prevalent.
--
Spy
co...@ibl.bm
Simon Hosie
Christopher Perrott:
> I say Wenzdee, but I've definitely heard Wedduhnzday. Maybe it's a
> pronunciation that is used in Australia?
I've heard a few old people say it, but never an Australian.
Raymot
In article <32F18A...@pacific.net.sg>, cper...@pacific.net.sg says...
>
>Bob Cunningham wrote:
>
>> In both British
>> and American dictionaries, "half", "Wednesday", "Christmas", and
>> "subtle" have no other pronunciations than the ones he seems to be
>> representing as examples of incorrect pronunciation.
>
>> , but I would be surprised to find
>> any English dictionary that suggested that the "l" in "half", the "b" in
>> "subtle", the "d" in "Wednesday", or the "t" in "Christmas" should be
>> pronounced.
>
>pronunciation that is used in Australia?
>
>Chris Perrott
Rarely. It sounds like hypercorrectness from most people, though
some people can pull it off convincingly.
Macquarie Dict. cites /wEnzdeI, -di [!], wEdn-/
So that'll be a surprise for Bob, as long as he accepts Macquarie
as being an "English dictionary". Of course, I don't think Macquarie
is implying that the "d" *should* be pronounced, or that /wEnsdi/
is the preferred pronunciation. It tends to be descriptive.
Raymot
=======
Brisbane, Australia
rmot...@powerup.com.au
http://www.powerup.com.au/~rmottare/
[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[
ra...@raidernationpodcast.com
Here's another one. What about "congradulations"? Everyone seems to pronounce congratulations that way.
Also, people can't pronounce T's anymore. Approaching the Super Bowl, I keep hearing Peyton Manning's first name pronounced Pay-un instead of Pay-ton. I guess people can't reach the roof of their mouth with their tongue anymore to make the T sound.
Ok, one more observation. The letter I seems to be everyone's favorite vowel. It's replacing A, E, and O. Washingtin. Houstin. Portlind. Baskitball. Amerikin. Just to name a few.
ra...@raidernationpodcast.com
Pablo
something about Plato but it was interpreted as the stuff kids used to play
with (Playdo).
--
Pablo
http://www.ipernity.com/home/313627
http://paulc.es/
Jerry Friedman
> ra...@raidernationpodcast.com wrote:
>
> > Also, people can't pronounce T's anymore.
>
> Americans pronounce t as d. I saw an episode of Bones in which the burd said
> something about Plato but it was interpreted as the stuff kids used to play
> with (Playdo).
unaccented. Many of us pronounce it as a glottal stop--which is what Randy
was objecting to in "Peyton"--when the following syllable is an
unaccented /@n/, typically realized as a syllabic /n/. (Really there's a
bit more to it than just a glottal stop.) The rest of the time we
pronounce /t/ pretty much as [t], I think.
--
Jerry Friedman
John Varela
tongue touching the roof of the mouth just behind the teeth. The
only difference is that the d is voiced. Thus, Americans pronounce
Guatemala as Guademala. Spanish speakers place the tip of the tongue
behind the teeth and sound a clear t in Guatemala. The result of
this is that the Spanish d merges with the th sound. Try saying
Valledolid with the tongue behind the teeth for the two d's.
--
John Varela
R H Draney
--
Me? Sarcastic?
Yeah, right.
Peter Moylan
of what you're responding to let readers make sense of comments like the
above.
> That's how I ended up on this website.
> Had to do a Google search to see how many others have noticed this
> besides me. I just heard a radio talk show host say it.
newsgroup, not a web site.
--
Peter Moylan, Newcastle, NSW, Australia. http://www.pmoylan.org
For an e-mail address, see my web page.
Peter T. Daniels
the stop itself is realized identically in the two words.
Peter T. Daniels
> The problem is that Americans pronounce t and d starting with the
> tongue touching the roof of the mouth just behind the teeth. The
> only difference is that the d is voiced. Thus, Americans pronounce
> Guatemala as Guademala. Spanish speakers place the tip of the tongue
> behind the teeth and sound a clear t in Guatemala. The result of
> this is that the Spanish d merges with the th sound. Try saying
> Valledolid with the tongue behind the teeth for the two d's.
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Peter Duncanson [BrE]
therefore cannot distinguish between a "t" and a "d" when they sound
identical.
--
Peter Duncanson, UK
(in alt.usage.english)
Peter T. Daniels
phonemes. What they hear is phonemes.
The few moments it takes to accustom oneself to hearing someone speaking
with a different [either regional or foreign] accent should suffice to
clarify which of the two words is being used in context.
In isolation, as William Labov likes to show with snippets of tape,
such accent differences often make individual words unrecognizable
but in just a second or so of context, they're perfectly clear.
(Think of listening to a very Australian speaker, for instance.)
But this whole thread seems to have parachuted, i.e. been suddenly
cross-posted, from someplace where the posters are not accustomed
to considering dialect differences.
Jerry Friedman
> Jerry Friedman filted:
> >On Tuesday, January 28, 2014 12:29:38 PM UTC-7, Pablo wrote:
> >> ra...@raidernationpodcast.com wrote:
> >> > Also, people can't pronounce T's anymore.
> >> Americans pronounce t as d. I saw an episode of Bones in which the burd said
> >> something about Plato but it was interpreted as the stuff kids used to play
> >> with (Playdo).
>
> >We pronounce it that way between vowels when the following syllable is
> >unaccented.
> Many of us pronounce it as a glottal stop--which is what Randy
> >was objecting to in "Peyton"--when the following syllable is an
> >unaccented /@n/, typically realized as a syllabic /n/.
> (Really there's a
> >bit more to it than just a glottal stop.) The rest of the time we
> >pronounce /t/ pretty much as [t], I think.
>
> You've never heard an utterly ambiguous "she really enjoys writing/riding"?...r
PTD pointed out. However, I did say that's the situation "between
vowels when the following syllable is unaccented" where we pronounce
/t/ and /d/ the same. Maybe I didn't say it clearly.
--
Jerry Friedman
Robert Bannister
Australia, I can still mishear a name.
--
Robert Bannister - 1940-71 SE England
1972-now W Australia
Peter T. Daniels
in your head to calibrate them against.