Hip Hip! Hooray! is an antisemetic war cry (origin)

[David Maddison]

So extensive is the history of crimes against Jews, some expressions
and practices with antisemetic origins have survived to this day, but
in a seemingly innocuous form. I was surprised to read that the
expression "Hip! Hip! Hooray!" was an antisemetic war slogan. I will
quote the relevant passage from "The Jewish Connection", M.H. Goldberg,
1976, Bantam Books, ISBN 0-553-10870-0, p215-216.

<BEGIN QUOTE>
One of the derivations of this word can be found in _Brewer's Dictionary
of Phrase and Fable_ in which "Hip" or "Hep" is said to be the first letters
in the Latin expression _Hierosolyma Est Perdita_, "Jerusalem is destroyed".

"Hip! Hip!" was shouted at the Jews by German knights during the Middle
Ages. It was the slogan used by the Crusaders on their March to Jerusalem.
It was also used in the title of the Hep Movement, which first erupted
in Wurzburg, Germany in 1819 and spread throughout the country. Its leaders
lusted for revenge against Jews and provided a stimulus for German
nationalism that eventually culminated in the Holocaust. Their battle cry
was "Hep! Hep! Hep! Death and destruction to the Jews!".

"Hooray", according to the same reference book, "derives from Slavonic
_Hu-Raj_ (to paradise)." In other words, "Hip! Hip! Hooray!" says
_Brewer's_, means "Jerusalem is lost to the infadel and we are on the
road to paradise."

"Hep" has also, according to another source, been traced to the German
word meaning "Give" so that when the Jew baiters descended on a Jewish
community during the course of a pogrom they yelled out "Hep! Hep!" for
the Jews to give up their monies and valuables.
<END QUOTE>

David Maddison
Cybernomad.

[Richard Wojcik]

In article <3aum5o$s...@sunb.ocs.mq.edu.au>,
David Maddison <madd...@laurel.ocs.mq.edu.au> wrote:
>...I was surprised to read that the

>expression "Hip! Hip! Hooray!" was an antisemetic war slogan. I will
>quote the relevant passage from "The Jewish Connection", M.H. Goldberg,
>1976, Bantam Books, ISBN 0-553-10870-0, p215-216.
>
><BEGIN QUOTE>
>One of the derivations of this word can be found in _Brewer's Dictionary
>of Phrase and Fable_ in which "Hip" or "Hep" is said to be the first letters
>in the Latin expression _Hierosolyma Est Perdita_, "Jerusalem is destroyed".

Do you know anything more about this source? How reliable is it? Neither
Random House nor Houghton Mifflin seemed to have stumbled across this
etymology. Both report that the origin of "hip" and "hep" are unknown.

>"Hooray", according to the same reference book, "derives from Slavonic
>_Hu-Raj_ (to paradise)." In other words, "Hip! Hip! Hooray!" says
>_Brewer's_, means "Jerusalem is lost to the infadel and we are on the
>road to paradise."

My unabridged Random House Dictionary traces "hooray" (via "huzza") to
"hoise", a sailor's cheer. It meant "hoist". If the Random House
etymology is correct, then the entire etymology proposed in Brewer's should
be taken with a grain of salt.
--
Rick Wojcik ri...@eskimo.com Seattle (for locals: Bellevue), WA
http://www.eskimo.com/~rickw/

[Michael Shoshani]

Richard Wojcik (ri...@eskimo.com) wrote:
: In article <3aum5o$s...@sunb.ocs.mq.edu.au>,
: David Maddison <madd...@laurel.ocs.mq.edu.au> wrote:

: ><BEGIN QUOTE>

: >One of the derivations of this word can be found in _Brewer's Dictionary
: >of Phrase and Fable_ in which "Hip" or "Hep" is said to be the first letters
: >in the Latin expression _Hierosolyma Est Perdita_, "Jerusalem is destroyed".

: Do you know anything more about this source? How reliable is it? Neither
: Random House nor Houghton Mifflin seemed to have stumbled across this
: etymology. Both report that the origin of "hip" and "hep" are unknown.

It so happens that I, the King of Trivia (tm) have a reprint copy of this
work, "The Dictionary of Phrase and Fable, giving the Derivation, Source,
or Origin of Common Phrases, Allusions and Words that have a tale to tell:
by the Rev. E. Cobham Brewer, Ll.D." . This was originally published in 1870;
the reprint I have is from an expanded version from 1894, three years
before the Rev. Brewer's death. It sold over 100,000 copies in its day,
and was considered highly authoritative in its day.

Be that as it may, I shall now quote his entries for the relevant parts
of "Hip-Hip-Hooray".

HIP! HIP! HURRAH! Hip is said to be a notarica, composed of the initial
letters of _Hierosolyma Est Pertida_. Henri van Laun says, in _Notes and
Queries_, that whenever the German knights headed a Jew-hunt in the
Middle Ages, they ran shouting "Hip! Hip!" as much as to say "Jerusalem
is destroyed." (see NOTARICA)
Timbs derives Hurrah from the Sclavonic _hu-raj_ (to Paradise), so that
_Hip! hip! hurrah!_ would mean "Jerusalem is lost to the infidel, and we
are on the road to Paradise." These etymons may be taken for what they
are worth. The word _hurrah!_ is a German exclamation also.
_"Now, infidel, I have thee on the hip!"_ (Merchant of Venice); and again,
_"I'll have our Michael Cassio on the hip"_ (Othello), to have the whip
hand of one. The term is derived from wrestlers, who seize the adversary
by the hip and throw him.
" In fine he doth apply one speciall drift,
Which was to get the pagan on the hip,
And having caught him right, he doth him lift
By nimble sleight, and in such wise doth trip,
That down he threw him." Sir J. Harrington.

***be that definition of "Hurrah" as it may, it conflicts with his OWN
definition, given later in the work:

HURRAH, the Hebrew (letters heh-resh-yud-`ayin; I can;t duplicate them on
my screen). Our "Old Hundredth Psalm" begins with "Shout joyfully
[hurrah] to J-hov-h !" The word is also of not uncommon occurance in
other Psalms. See _Notes and Queries_, October 16th, 1880. (Norwegian
and Danish, _hurra!_) (see HUZZA.)
~The Norman battle-cry was "Ha Rollo!" or "Ha-Rou!" (French _huzzer_, to
shout aloud; Russian _hoera_ and _hoezee_.)
" The Saxon cry of 'Out! Out, Holy Crosse!' rose high
above the Norman sound of 'Ha Rou! Ha Rou, Notre Dame!'"
-- Lord Lytton: harold, book xii, chap. 8
~~Wace (_Chronicle_) tells us that _Tur aie_ (Thor aid) was the battle
cry of the Northmen.

His entry for "Notarica", to which the reader is referred in the "Hip"
entry, is nothing more than a dozen examples of very ancient acronyms, as
it were.

--
____ _ ___ _ _ _ , , , , , , , , , ____ ____ _ ____
| | |/ | | / / | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | __| |__/ \_\_\_\|/_/_/_/ | | ____| __| | |
*** Michael SB Shoshani __|__ shos...@wwa.com ***

[Rob Leitman]

In article <Czvwt...@eskimo.com>, Richard Wojcik <ri...@eskimo.com> wrote:
>In article <3aum5o$s...@sunb.ocs.mq.edu.au>,
>David Maddison <madd...@laurel.ocs.mq.edu.au> wrote:
>>...I was surprised to read that the
>>expression "Hip! Hip! Hooray!" was an antisemetic war slogan. I will
>>quote the relevant passage from "The Jewish Connection", M.H. Goldberg,
>>1976, Bantam Books, ISBN 0-553-10870-0, p215-216.
>>
>><BEGIN QUOTE>
>>One of the derivations of this word can be found in _Brewer's Dictionary
>>of Phrase and Fable_ in which "Hip" or "Hep" is said to be the first letters
>>in the Latin expression _Hierosolyma Est Perdita_, "Jerusalem is destroyed".
>
>Do you know anything more about this source? How reliable is it? Neither
>Random House nor Houghton Mifflin seemed to have stumbled across this
>etymology. Both report that the origin of "hip" and "hep" are unknown.
>

The OED at least has heard the same derivation of "hep": 'hep (hep),
int. [Said to be f. the initials of Hierosolyma Est Perdita; or, the
cry of a goatherd.] Usu. hep, hep! The cry of those who persecuted
Jews in the 19th century. Also attrib.'

>>"Hooray", according to the same reference book, "derives from Slavonic
>>_Hu-Raj_ (to paradise)." In other words, "Hip! Hip! Hooray!" says
>>_Brewer's_, means "Jerusalem is lost to the infadel and we are on the
>>road to paradise."
>
>My unabridged Random House Dictionary traces "hooray" (via "huzza") to
>"hoise", a sailor's cheer. It meant "hoist".

The OED says that "hooray" comes from "hurrah" which in turn comes
from "huzza". The latter is 'app. a mere exclamation, the first
syllable being a preparation for, and a means of securing simultaneous
utterance of the final (a:).' However, many 17-18th century writers
agreed with the Random House etymology.

Rob "hep-cat" Leitman

[Kenneth Miner]

Michael Shoshani (shos...@wwa.com) wrote:

[...]

*That* was one hell of a post, Mr. Shoshani. Bravo!

: ____ _ ___ _ _ _ , , , , , , , , , ____ ____ _ ____

: | | |/ | | / / | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
: | | | __| |__/ \_\_\_\|/_/_/_/ | | ____| __| | |
: *** Michael SB Shoshani __|__ shos...@wwa.com ***

Ken

[Jack Campin]

madd...@laurel.ocs.mq.edu.au (David Maddison) wrote:
> "Hooray", according to the same reference book, "derives from Slavonic
> _Hu-Raj_ (to paradise)." In other words, "Hip! Hip! Hooray!" says
> _Brewer's_, means "Jerusalem is lost to the infadel and we are on the
> road to paradise."

"Hooray" comes from Maori "haere ra" meaning "goodbye".

--
-- Jack Campin -- Room 1.36, Dept. of Computing & EE, Heriot-Watt University,
Riccarton, Edinburgh EH14 4AS WWW: http://www.cee.hw.ac.uk/~jack/jack.html
Internet: ja...@cee.hw.ac.uk Phone: 031 449 5111 ext 4195 Fax: 031 451 3431
Home phone: 031 556 5272 Home Internet: ja...@purr.demon.co.uk

[Ray Girvan]

shos...@wwa.com (Michael Shoshani) writes:

[origins of Hurrah! etc]

Fascinating post. One extra thought crosses my mind:
could "Hurrah!" as a battle-cry just be instinctive or
imitative? It does sound rather like the roar of an animal.

Ray
========================================
Ray Girvan
rgi...@cix.compulink.co.uk
Computer Journalist

[tom schmeling]

In article <mandibleD...@netcom.com>,
Articulate Mandible <mand...@netcom.com> wrote:
>ik...@panix.com (Kim Scheinberg) writes:
>
>>"Beauty is truth; truth, beauty"
>
>Or, as Grendel Briarton wrote, "Trudy is Booth; Booth, Trudy."

"Booty is truth, and truth is booty"
-A flag-draped politician, in a vaugely remembered cartoon by Arnold Roth

[Benjamin D Lukoff]

r...@fc.hp.com (Ray Depew) writes:

>My spelling is phonetic, of course, but before I believe this "antisemetic
>war cry" story, I'll have to see an explanation, from someone in
>Scandinavia, for how the "ippity-ip" part of this cheer derived from
>"Ierusalem est perdita" or whatever.

>Oh yeah, in what century did "J" replace "I" in that phrase? "Iep Iep"
>doesn't sound quite right, does it?

Sure it does. J and I (and Y) are quite often interchangeable. Remember
I.N.R.I.? Iesus Nazarenus Rex Iudaeorum? (Jesus of Nazareth, King of
The Jews)? Of course, these days when we write the first and the last
words, we'd use a J -- Jesus and Judaeorum, but we'd also mispronounce
them. There was never a "J" sound as in "jump" in the words Jerusalem,
Jesus, Judaea, etc. So "iep" sounds plausible to me.

BDL

[bruce bowser]

Here 30 years later, you might be able to (if still getting this email address).

[Ross Clark]

As to your question: no.

A useful rule of thumb:
- Etymologies based on acronyms are often wrong.
- Etymologies based on supposed acronyms before the 20th century are
almost always wrong.

Now as to the mess above:

The person who quotes Brewer does not mention that Brewer himself
describes the medieval story as "fanciful" (i.e. not true).Note his
comment above: "These etymons may be taken for what they are worth!"
(i.e not much)

For some reason there follows a quote relating to the expression "have
someone on the hip", which has nothing to do with it.

...and then by some nonsense about HURRAH being Hebrew.

Brewer was an enjoyable Victorian compiler of all kinds of odd lore. If
you want odd lore and "interesting" etymologies, go no further.
But if you're not afraid of the word "unknown", and you want to know
what the actual evidence indicates, consult a dictionary with serious
etymologies. OED is my favourite.

Fact about "hip hip hooray/hurrah": neither this expression nor any part
of it is recorded in English before the late 17th century. The full
assemblage (with three hip!s) does not appear until 1819.

"Hip" is an utterance used "to attract attention, or to incite or
encourage action". Quite like modern English "hey!".

1785 F. Grose Classical Dict. Vulgar Tongue Hyp, or Hip, a mode of
calling to one passing by; hip Michael, your head's on fire, a piece of
vulgar wit to a red haired man.

Can also be doubled:

1811 ‘A. F. Holstein’ Isadora of Milan III. vi. 81 Hip, hip! my
girls; here's to the boy's better health.

Origin? "Probably imitative of a sharp sound made to attract attention."
(I warned you it might not be "interesting".)

"Hurrah/hooray" is "a shout expressive of approbation, encouragement, or
exultation; used esp. as a ‘cheer’ at public assemblies or the like."

Now here there are some foreign comparisons:

"Swedish, Danish, Low German hurra!, Dutch hoera!, Russian ura! whence
French houra; (French hourra is from English.)
Middle High German had hurr, hurrâ, as interjections representing rapid
whirring motion (compare hurren to rush), whence also a shout used in
chasing [hunting]. According to Moriz Heyne in Grimm, hurrah was the
battle-cry of the Prussian soldiers in the War of Liberation (1812–13),
and has since been a favourite cry of soldiers and sailors, and of
exultation."

OED suggests possible influence from one or more of these, but even if
so, "hurrah!" merely replaced the very similar "huzzah!", which goes
back to Shakespeare's time.

Origin? "Apparently a mere exclamation, the first syllable being a

preparation for, and a means of securing simultaneous utterance of the

final /ɑː/. [Stress on the -ah, just like in hurrah!]
It is mentioned by many 17–18th cent. writers as being originally a
sailor's cheer or salute: ‘It was derived from the marine and the shouts
the seamen make when friends come aboard or go off’ (North Exam. (1740)
617). It may therefore be the same as heisau! hissa! originally hauling
or hoisting cries...(German has also ˈhussa as a cry of hunting and
pursuit, and, subsequently, of exultation.)"

(A friend of mine once published a lengthy paper, complete with deep
footnotes, on this expression, but I can't find it now.)

[Peter T. Daniels]

On Sunday, April 17, 2022 at 5:39:46 AM UTC-4, benl...@ihug.co.nz wrote:

> OED suggests possible influence from one or more of these, but even if
> so, "hurrah!" merely replaced the very similar "huzzah!", which goes
> back to Shakespeare's time.
>
> Origin? "Apparently a mere exclamation, the first syllable being a
> preparation for, and a means of securing simultaneous utterance of the
> final /ɑː/. [Stress on the -ah, just like in hurrah!]
> It is mentioned by many 17–18th cent. writers as being originally a
> sailor's cheer or salute: ‘It was derived from the marine and the shouts
> the seamen make when friends come aboard or go off’ (North Exam. (1740)
> 617). It may therefore be the same as heisau! hissa! originally hauling
> or hoisting cries...(German has also ˈhussa as a cry of hunting and
> pursuit, and, subsequently, of exultation.)"

Has "boo-yah" infected anywhere but the US Marines (and possibly
other of the services)?

> (A friend of mine once published a lengthy paper, complete with deep
> footnotes, on this expression, but I can't find it now.)

There are indexes ...

... not indices

[Tony Cooper]

On Sun, 17 Apr 2022 06:52:08 -0700 (PDT), "Peter T. Daniels"
<gram...@verizon.net> wrote:

>On Sunday, April 17, 2022 at 5:39:46 AM UTC-4, benl...@ihug.co.nz wrote:
>
>> OED suggests possible influence from one or more of these, but even if
>> so, "hurrah!" merely replaced the very similar "huzzah!", which goes
>> back to Shakespeare's time.
>>
>> Origin? "Apparently a mere exclamation, the first syllable being a
>> preparation for, and a means of securing simultaneous utterance of the

>> final /??/. [Stress on the -ah, just like in hurrah!]

>> It is mentioned by many 17–18th cent. writers as being originally a
>> sailor's cheer or salute: ‘It was derived from the marine and the shouts
>> the seamen make when friends come aboard or go off’ (North Exam. (1740)
>> 617). It may therefore be the same as heisau! hissa! originally hauling

>> or hoisting cries...(German has also ?hussa as a cry of hunting and

>> pursuit, and, subsequently, of exultation.)"
>
>Has "boo-yah" infected anywhere but the US Marines (and possibly
>other of the services)?

The US Marines do not say "boo-yah". The Marine version is "Ooh rah".
The Army version is "Hoo ah". (Spelling and hyphens may differ in
print)

"Boo-yah" was something said by ESPN's Stuart Scott. Jim Cramer
(CNBC) was also known to use it. It comes from "booya", a meat stew.



--

Tony Cooper - Orlando Florida

I read and post to this group as a form of entertainment.

[Tony Cooper]

By the way, my "research" on this was prompted by a show I know you
watch: The Late Show with Stephen Colbert. Some time ago Ron Riggle
(actor, former marine officer) was a guest on the show and chatted
about this.

[Tony Cooper]

On Sun, 17 Apr 2022 10:49:24 -0400, Tony Cooper

"Rob", not "Ron", Riggle.

[Athel Cornish-Bowden]

Talking of which, is there any news of Ron Draney?


--
Athel -- French and British, living mainly in England until 1987.

[Peter T. Daniels]

On Sunday, April 17, 2022 at 10:37:23 AM UTC-4, Tony Cooper wrote:
> On Sun, 17 Apr 2022 06:52:08 -0700 (PDT), "Peter T. Daniels"
> <gram...@verizon.net> wrote:
> >On Sunday, April 17, 2022 at 5:39:46 AM UTC-4, benl...@ihug.co.nz wrote:

> >> OED suggests possible influence from one or more of these, but even if
> >> so, "hurrah!" merely replaced the very similar "huzzah!", which goes
> >> back to Shakespeare's time.
> >> Origin? "Apparently a mere exclamation, the first syllable being a
> >> preparation for, and a means of securing simultaneous utterance of the
> >> final /??/. [Stress on the -ah, just like in hurrah!]
> >> It is mentioned by many 17–18th cent. writers as being originally a
> >> sailor's cheer or salute: ‘It was derived from the marine and the shouts
> >> the seamen make when friends come aboard or go off’ (North Exam. (1740)
> >> 617). It may therefore be the same as heisau! hissa! originally hauling
> >> or hoisting cries...(German has also ?hussa as a cry of hunting and
> >> pursuit, and, subsequently, of exultation.)"
> >Has "boo-yah" infected anywhere but the US Marines (and possibly
> >other of the services)?

> The US Marines do not say "boo-yah". The Marine version is "Ooh rah".
> The Army version is "Hoo ah". (Spelling and hyphens may differ in
> print)

No doubt there's a reason you failed to provide a link to the source
that gave you that "information."

Which, of course, has nothing to do with the question I asked.

> "Boo-yah" was something said by ESPN's Stuart Scott. Jim Cramer
> (CNBC) was also known to use it. It comes from "booya", a meat stew.

That meaning, which has nothing to do with the exclamation, comes
from "bouillon."

I sure see (saw?) it a lot from crowds of servicepeople at least when
GWB went to visit the troops in the various theaters of war that he
established.

M-W says first attestation is 1990, but no hint of what it was.
AHD is the only one that guesses at an etymology -- imitative
of a shotgun being fired.

It was added to Urban Dictionary in 2003.

[Peter T. Daniels]

Doubtless you can produce a YouTube link, along with his credentials
for stating which exclamations were used in which Services.

> "Rob", not "Ron", Riggle.

Cohost of *Holey Moley*, one of the truly dumbest programs ever to
be renewed for at least a fourth season on ABC. A miniature golf -
like competition produced and featuring by the basketball star Steph
Curry.

[Tony Cooper]

On Sun, 17 Apr 2022 09:41:15 -0700 (PDT), "Peter T. Daniels"

I probably could, but Why? There are numerous web hits that explain
the "Ooh rah"/"Hoo ah" divide and the usage of "boo-yah". Also,
that Riggle was a serving Marine officer. I think if someone was a
Marine long enough to rise to the rank of Lt Colonel (as Riggle did),
that person's credentials as one familiar with Marine terminology are
pretty much acceptable without question.

[Tony Cooper]

On Sun, 17 Apr 2022 09:37:15 -0700 (PDT), "Peter T. Daniels"

You asked if boo-ya "infected" anywhere but the US Marines. I replied
that it is not used by the US Marines, but was used in sports
announcing by the late Stuart Scott and by whatever you call Jim
Cramer's shtick on "Mad Money". Answers on point to your question.

>
>> "Boo-yah" was something said by ESPN's Stuart Scott. Jim Cramer
>> (CNBC) was also known to use it. It comes from "booya", a meat stew.
>
>That meaning, which has nothing to do with the exclamation, comes
>from "bouillon."
>
>I sure see (saw?) it a lot from crowds of servicepeople at least when
>GWB went to visit the troops in the various theaters of war that he
>established.

How do you "see" how that exclamation is spelled? Hearing what the
variations by the different service members shouted, you've simply
made a mistake and thought they were shouting something else.

Look, Peter, you can be wrong. It happens. Rather than defend the
indefensible, just do a quick search, figure out you were wrong, and
retreat quietly from the field.

I'll give you a leg up: use the search term in Google "Marine shout
of agreement". Read any of the hits on the page that comes up.

[S K]

if he did that - elders from his tribe would form a tribunal and snip his coat buttons off and excommunicate him.

[CDB]

On 4/17/2022 10:49 AM, Tony Cooper wrote:

Did Rob use the word in an exclamatory or culinary context?

WP says he's a comedian.

[Tony Cooper]

I really don't remember. It's possible - but I don't claim it to be
so - that Colbert used the wrong version and Riggle corrected him and
explained the different usages. That's often how this kind of
discussion comes up.

Maybe Colbert boo-yahed something Riggle said or did.

[Peter T. Daniels]

Well, Google didn't find them.

[Peter T. Daniels]

I don't give a flying fuck what the "Marine shout of agreement"
is. I asked whether the childish "boo-yah" has spread outside its
home in the US military, naming the Service it is most associated
with.

[Peter T. Daniels]

On Sunday, April 17, 2022 at 2:44:44 PM UTC-4, CDB wrote:

> Did Rob use the word in an exclamatory or culinary context?
>
> WP says he's a comedian.

He's the even dumber half of the dumb-and-dumber team
anchoring *Holey Moley*.

[Tony Cooper]

On Sun, 17 Apr 2022 13:42:03 -0700 (PDT), "Peter T. Daniels"

Oh, dear. I tried the "teach a man to fish" method, but that flopped
like a netted trout.

There is no military association with "boo-yah". None of the services
are home to it. None.

"Oo-rah" and "hoo-ah" (spelling and punction may differ) are shouted
out to indicate agreement, approval, or solidarity. That's why my
suggested search term will produce hits that disprove your contention.

Searching for "boo-ya Marines" or "boo-yah military" defaults to a
search for "oorah".

In order to "give a man a fish", here's a school:
https://www.quora.com/Why-do-Marines-say-Booyah

[Sam Plusnet]

I can't believe that PTD is really so clueless. His original post must
have been his way of dangling a tasty worm in front of you.

--
Sam Plusnet

[bruce bowser]

I thought that was only exclaimed on a food commercial.

[Tony Cooper]

I would almost admire him if it was a deliberate troll, but the sad
thing is that he really is clueless.

Self-inflicted cluelessness, though. He works at it.

[lar3ryca]

You are an optimist!
You would have more luck teaching a cranberry how to program i LISP.

[Janet]

In article <fa8050f7-d889-41d0...@googlegroups.com>,
gram...@verizon.net says...

>
> On Sunday, April 17, 2022 at 10:37:23 AM UTC-4, Tony Cooper wrote:
>
> > "Boo-yah" was something said by ESPN's Stuart Scott. Jim Cramer
> > (CNBC) was also known to use it. It comes from "booya", a meat stew.
>
> That meaning, which has nothing to do with the exclamation, comes
> from "bouillon."

bouillon is a clear broth or stock, not a meat stew.

Janet

[J. J. Lodder]

Yes, from French bouillir (E. to boil)
Nothing to do with the Belgian-French place name Bouillon,
or the crusader from there with that name,

Jan

[Tony Cooper]

From Stuart Scott's Wiki article:

"Scott became well known for his use of catch phrases, following in
the SportsCenter tradition begun by Dan Patrick and Keith Olbermann.
He popularized the phrase booyah, which spread from sports into
mainstream culture."

Note "from sports into popular culture", not "from military use".

Scott, who was Black, was known for his "hip-hop style and use of
catchphrases".

[CDB]

On 4/18/2022 6:34 AM, Janet wrote:
> gram...@verizon.net says...

>> Tony Cooper wrote:

>>> "Boo-yah" was something said by ESPN's Stuart Scott. Jim Cramer
>>> (CNBC) was also known to use it. It comes from "booya", a meat
>>> stew.

>> That meaning, which has nothing to do with the exclamation, comes
>> from "bouillon."

> bouillon is a clear broth or stock, not a meat stew.

Maybe "bouillir", then?

All those exclamations look alike to me, all variants of "hurrah". This
claiming of them by one American military service or another is rank
splittism.

[Ken Blake]

On Mon, 18 Apr 2022 11:34:17 +0100, Janet <nob...@hame.cock> wrote:

That reminds me of a question: what, to you and everyone else here, is
the difference between broth and stock? I use the terms
interchangeably.

[charles]

In article <tc1r5ht3vkd28e3hu...@4ax.com>,

I'm no cook, but I think stock is made simply from the juices of the meat.
Broth has things added.

--
from KT24 in Surrey, England
"I'd rather die of exhaustion than die of boredom" Thomas Carlyle

[Athel Cornish-Bowden]

On 2022-04-18 15:59:24 +0000, charles said:

> In article <tc1r5ht3vkd28e3hu...@4ax.com>,
> Ken Blake <K...@invalid.news.com> wrote:
>> On Mon, 18 Apr 2022 11:34:17 +0100, Janet <nob...@hame.cock> wrote:
>
>>> In article <fa8050f7-d889-41d0...@googlegroups.com>,
>>> gram...@verizon.net says...
>>>>
>>>> On Sunday, April 17, 2022 at 10:37:23 AM UTC-4, Tony Cooper wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> "Boo-yah" was something said by ESPN's Stuart Scott. Jim Cramer
>>>>> (CNBC) was also known to use it. It comes from "booya", a meat stew.
>>>>
>>>> That meaning, which has nothing to do with the exclamation, comes
>>>> from "bouillon."
>>>
>>> bouillon is a clear broth or stock, not a meat stew.
>
>> That reminds me of a question: what, to you and everyone else here, is
>> the difference between broth and stock? I use the terms
>> interchangeably.
>
> I'm no cook, but I think stock is made simply from the juices of the meat.
> Broth has things added.

Right. And broth is something some people (not me) eat or drink. I
don't think stock is used it stands for that, though it is of course
used as an ingredient.

[Peter T. Daniels]

Tell it to the etymologists.

You could consult the OED to see whether "bouillon" was used differently
in the past from how it is used now.

[Peter T. Daniels]

On Monday, April 18, 2022 at 8:28:06 AM UTC-4, Tony Cooper wrote:
> On Mon, 18 Apr 2022 11:34:17 +0100, Janet <nob...@hame.cock> wrote:
> >In article <fa8050f7-d889-41d0...@googlegroups.com>,
> >gram...@verizon.net says...
> >> On Sunday, April 17, 2022 at 10:37:23 AM UTC-4, Tony Cooper wrote:

> >> > "Boo-yah" was something said by ESPN's Stuart Scott. Jim Cramer
> >> > (CNBC) was also known to use it. It comes from "booya", a meat stew.
> >> That meaning, which has nothing to do with the exclamation, comes
> >> from "bouillon."
> > bouillon is a clear broth or stock, not a meat stew.
> >
> > Janet
>
> From Stuart Scott's Wiki article:

Which has what to do with the unrelated use of "boo-yah"
to name a particular stew?

> "Scott became well known for his use of catch phrases, following in
> the SportsCenter tradition begun by Dan Patrick and Keith Olbermann.
> He popularized the phrase booyah, which spread from sports into
> mainstream culture."
>
> Note "from sports into popular culture", not "from military use".
>
> Scott, who was Black, was known for his "hip-hop style and use of
> catchphrases".
>

> I read and post to this group as a form of entertainment.

Try "entertaining" yourself by tracking down that 1990 first use
known to Merriam-Webster.

[Peter T. Daniels]

On Monday, April 18, 2022 at 12:04:21 PM UTC-4, charles wrote:
> In article <tc1r5ht3vkd28e3hu...@4ax.com>,
> Ken Blake <K...@invalid.news.com> wrote:
> > On Mon, 18 Apr 2022 11:34:17 +0100, Janet <nob...@hame.cock> wrote:
> > >In article <fa8050f7-d889-41d0...@googlegroups.com>,
> > >gram...@verizon.net says...
> > >> On Sunday, April 17, 2022 at 10:37:23 AM UTC-4, Tony Cooper wrote:

> > >> > "Boo-yah" was something said by ESPN's Stuart Scott. Jim Cramer
> > >> > (CNBC) was also known to use it. It comes from "booya", a meat stew.
> > >> That meaning, which has nothing to do with the exclamation, comes
> > >> from "bouillon."
> > > bouillon is a clear broth or stock, not a meat stew.
> > That reminds me of a question: what, to you and everyone else here, is
> > the difference between broth and stock? I use the terms
> > interchangeably.
>
> I'm no cook, but I think stock is made simply from the juices of the meat.
> Broth has things added.

You cook with stock, you eat/drink broth.

[Sam Plusnet]

On 18-Apr-22 13:38, CDB wrote:
> All those exclamations look alike to me, all variants of "hurrah".  This
> claiming of them by one American military service or another is rank
> splittism.

Surely military structure requires the splitting of one rank from another.

How else can you form divisions?

--
Sam Plusnet

[Tony Cooper]

On Mon, 18 Apr 2022 11:08:59 -0700 (PDT), "Peter T. Daniels"
<gram...@verizon.net> wrote:

>On Monday, April 18, 2022 at 8:28:06 AM UTC-4, Tony Cooper wrote:
>> On Mon, 18 Apr 2022 11:34:17 +0100, Janet <nob...@hame.cock> wrote:
>> >In article <fa8050f7-d889-41d0...@googlegroups.com>,
>> >gram...@verizon.net says...
>> >> On Sunday, April 17, 2022 at 10:37:23 AM UTC-4, Tony Cooper wrote:
>
>> >> > "Boo-yah" was something said by ESPN's Stuart Scott. Jim Cramer
>> >> > (CNBC) was also known to use it. It comes from "booya", a meat stew.
>> >> That meaning, which has nothing to do with the exclamation, comes
>> >> from "bouillon."
>> > bouillon is a clear broth or stock, not a meat stew.
>> >
>> > Janet
>>
>> From Stuart Scott's Wiki article:
>
>Which has what to do with the unrelated use of "boo-yah"
>to name a particular stew?

You have that one backwards. It's alleged that the stew name is the
source of the term "Boo-yah" (spelling and punctuation may differ).

But, whether it is or isn't, it's unimportant and not the point of
this bowl of the thread. It's about the terms used by the members of
the military service, and "boo-yah" isn't one of them.

>
>> "Scott became well known for his use of catch phrases, following in
>> the SportsCenter tradition begun by Dan Patrick and Keith Olbermann.
>> He popularized the phrase booyah, which spread from sports into
>> mainstream culture."
>>
>> Note "from sports into popular culture", not "from military use".
>>
>> Scott, who was Black, was known for his "hip-hop style and use of
>> catchphrases".
>>
>> I read and post to this group as a form of entertainment.
>
>Try "entertaining" yourself by tracking down that 1990 first use
>known to Merriam-Webster.

Any other person, on seeing that they have been politely (no term like
"Moron" included, no all caps) corrected, would simply tap a few keys,
find out the correction was a valid one, and move on without further
comment. But, no, you have to double-down, ignore instructions on how
to verify the correction was valid, and generally look the fool.

https://www.etymonline.com/word/boo-ya

boo-ya (interj.)
also booyah, exclamation used in various situations, attested c. 1990
in hip-hop slang and to have been popularized by U.S. sports announcer
Stuart Scott (1965-2015) on ESPN's SportsCenter. A 1991 magazine
article has booyah as a Wisconsin word for "bouillon," based on an
inability to spell the latter.

--

Tony Cooper - Orlando Florida

[Peter T. Daniels]

Screw your claim to "politely." You find it "entertaining" to start stupid
fights over nothing at all, and I will not humor you by "following up."

> "Moron" included, no all caps) corrected, would simply tap a few keys,
> find out the correction was a valid one, and move on without further
> comment. But, no, you have to double-down, ignore instructions on how
> to verify the correction was valid, and generally look the fool.
>
> https://www.etymonline.com/word/boo-ya
>
> boo-ya (interj.)
> also booyah, exclamation used in various situations, attested c. 1990
> in hip-hop slang and to have been popularized by U.S. sports announcer
> Stuart Scott (1965-2015) on ESPN's SportsCenter. A 1991 magazine
> article has booyah as a Wisconsin word for "bouillon," based on an
> inability to spell the latter.

Wow. You'll cite anything if it agrees with your prejudice, no matter
how little it has to do with reality (e.g. at least three times you claimed
to find things in Jersey City (and Hoboken) that were not there).

It has already been pointed out several times in this thread that the
chicken stew called boo-yah is NOT bouillon.

[Snidely]

Sam Plusnet presented the following explanation :

You just multiply the companies of the unranked.

/dps

--
As a colleague once told me about an incoming manager,
"He does very well in a suck-up, kick-down culture."
Bill in Vancouver

[Tony Cooper]

Booyah, according to the recipies found on the web, is not "chicken
stew". It is a stew made with several types of meat - including, but
not limited to - chicken. Beef is an ingredient in every recipe I
found, but some also include pork.

Like many words, there's no sure knowledge of how the word "booyah"
came about. Most sources attributite it to coming from the *word*
boullion.

Wikipedia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Booyah_(stew) says, in part,
"The term "booyah" may be a variant of "bouillon". It is thought to
have derived from the Walloon language words for "boil" (bouillir) and
"broth" (bouillon). The spelling with an H has been attributed to
phonetic spelling by Wallonian immigrants from Belgium".

I would gladly direct you to a place in Jersey City or Hoboken where
booyah is served, but Yelp is of no help. If you can wait until
football season, maybe there's a sports bar in Jersey City or Hoboken
that caters to Green Bay Packer fans, and you can go, mingle, and
ask. You could get lucky.

--

Tony Cooper - Orlando Florida

[Sam Plusnet]

On 18-Apr-22 22:33, Snidely wrote:
> Sam Plusnet presented the following explanation :
>> On 18-Apr-22 13:38, CDB wrote:
>>> All those exclamations look alike to me, all variants of "hurrah".  This
>>> claiming of them by one American military service or another is rank
>>> splittism.
>>
>> Surely military structure requires the splitting of one rank from
>> another.
>>
>> How else can you form divisions?
>
> You just multiply the companies of the unranked.

That would rankle those gentlemen rankers.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EzshploJ12A

Bye yah baa.

--
Sam Plusnet

[J. J. Lodder]

What all armies are good at is uglification,

Jan

[Kerr-Mudd, John]

On Mon, 18 Apr 2022 14:04:03 -0700 (PDT)

"Peter T. Daniels" <gram...@verizon.net> wrote:

> On Monday, April 18, 2022 at 3:41:57 PM UTC-4, Tony Cooper wrote:
> > On Mon, 18 Apr 2022 11:08:59 -0700 (PDT), "Peter T. Daniels"
> > <gram...@verizon.net> wrote:
> >
> > >On Monday, April 18, 2022 at 8:28:06 AM UTC-4, Tony Cooper wrote:

[]

> >
> > Any other person, on seeing that they have been politely (no term like
>
> Screw your claim to "politely." You find it "entertaining" to start stupid
> fights over nothing at all, and I will not humor you by "following up."
>

You love to fight, and have never to my knowledge, ever, admitted to being wrong.
It takes two to tango.

Boo to ya.
--
Bah, and indeed Humbug.

[CDB]

On 4/18/2022 2:58 PM, Sam Plusnet wrote:
> CDB wrote:

>> All those exclamations look alike to me, all variants of "hurrah".
>> This claiming of them by one American military service or another
>> is rank splittism.

> Surely military structure requires the splitting of one rank from
> another.

> How else can you form divisions?

They begin with insults and then that leads to fighting.

https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=ranking

[CDB]

On 4/19/2022 2:51 AM, J. J. Lodder wrote:

> Sam Plusnet <n...@home.com> wrote:
>> CDB wrote:

>>> All those exclamations look alike to me, all variants of
>>> "hurrah". This claiming of them by one American military service
>>> or another is rank splittism.

>> Surely military structure requires the splitting of one rank from
>> another.

>> How else can you form divisions?

> What all armies are good at is uglification,

I was talking about derision, more.

[Peter T. Daniels]

On Monday, April 18, 2022 at 7:01:02 PM UTC-4, Tony Cooper wrote:
> On Mon, 18 Apr 2022 14:04:03 -0700 (PDT), "Peter T. Daniels"
> <gram...@verizon.net> wrote:

> >> boo-ya (interj.)
> >> also booyah, exclamation used in various situations, attested c. 1990
> >> in hip-hop slang and to have been popularized by U.S. sports announcer
> >> Stuart Scott (1965-2015) on ESPN's SportsCenter. A 1991 magazine
> >> article has booyah as a Wisconsin word for "bouillon," based on an
> >> inability to spell the latter.
> >Wow. You'll cite anything if it agrees with your prejudice, no matter
> >how little it has to do with reality (e.g. at least three times you claimed
> >to find things in Jersey City (and Hoboken) that were not there).
> >It has already been pointed out several times in this thread that the
> >chicken stew called boo-yah is NOT bouillon.
>
> Booyah, according to the recipies found on the web, is not "chicken
> stew". It is a stew made with several types of meat - including, but
> not limited to - chicken. Beef is an ingredient in every recipe I
> found, but some also include pork.

How did you manage to skip over the Words IN THIS THREAD?

[Peter T. Daniels]

Your former stoogemaster has NEVER refuted anything I've said.

He may "refute" his own failures to understand what I wrote, but
since he is only interested in carrying on fights because even
his grandsons have wearied of humoring him, he is not worth
attending to. Is he not prosecuting inane arguments in two separate
threads about soccer, which he seems to know less about than I
know about (American) football (and that's a lot of not-knowing)?

[Tony Cooper]

On Tue, 19 Apr 2022 07:20:21 -0700 (PDT), "Peter T. Daniels"

There are no words in this thread that state or suggest that booyah is
"chicken stew". Wherever did you get that idea?

Of course, "this thread" may have a different meaning to you. I have
no idea how GG handles threads. Booyah, the stew, may have been
discussed in a different thread, but I don't recall any mention of it
being "chicken stew".

Booyah is not "chicken stew" anymore than Gumbo or Brunswick stew is
"chicken stew" because some recipies include chicken as an ingredient.

[Adam Funk]

On 2022-04-19, Peter T. Daniels wrote:

> Your former stoogemaster has NEVER refuted anything I've said.

Has the hierarchy changed again? Maybe there should be a dedicated
thread for periodic updates.


--
Ninety-nine percent of who you are is invisible and untouchable.
--Buckminster Fuller

[Peter T. Daniels]

On Tuesday, April 19, 2022 at 2:15:06 PM UTC-4, Adam Funk wrote:
> On 2022-04-19, Peter T. Daniels wrote:

> > Your former stoogemaster has NEVER refuted anything I've said.
> Has the hierarchy changed again? Maybe there should be a dedicated
> thread for periodic updates.

Did you miss Mudd's coming-out?

[Sam Plusnet]

On 19-Apr-22 19:03, Adam Funk wrote:
> On 2022-04-19, Peter T. Daniels wrote:
>
>> Your former stoogemaster has NEVER refuted anything I've said.
>
> Has the hierarchy changed again? Maybe there should be a dedicated
> thread for periodic updates.
>

The only scorecard is held right up close to PTD's vest.


--
Sam Plusnet

[Snidely]

Tony Cooper wrote on 4/19/2022 :

> Of course, "this thread" may have a different meaning to you. I have
> no idea how GG handles threads. Booyah, the stew, may have been
> discussed in a different thread, but I don't recall any mention of it
> being "chicken stew".

FWIW, GG basically has the same threads as most noosereeders, based on
the references: header.

GG also sets the in-reply-to: header, which your reader doesn't; Sam's
does, mine doesn't. This seems not to be critical.

/dps

--
I have always been glad we weren't killed that night. I do not know
any particular reason, but I have always been glad.
_Roughing It_, Mark Twain

[Kerr-Mudd, John]

I have no ambition to be stoogemaster. If elected I will refuse to serve.

[Adam Funk]

"I refuse to join any club that would have me as a member."
(Groucho Marx)


--
Master Foo once said to a visiting programmer: "There is more
Unix-nature in one line of shell script than there is in ten
thousand lines of C." ---Eric Raymond

[Janet]

In article <MJH7K.396344$F_q1....@fx01.ams1>, n...@home.com says...

Scorecard, or target? oops.

Janet

[Janet]

In article <20220420111620.0757...@127.0.0.1>, admin@
127.0.0.1 says...

Stooges don't get elected. Just blindfolded and stood against a wall.

Except in my case. As Stoogemistress, I just show an ankle, and coyly
flip my fan.

Janet.

[Peter T. Daniels]

On Wednesday, April 20, 2022 at 8:11:53 AM UTC-4, Janet wrote:
> In article <20220420111620.0757...@127.0.0.1>, admin@
> 127.0.0.1 says...
> > On Wed, 20 Apr 2022 00:38:20 +0100
> > Sam Plusnet <n...@home.com> wrote:
> > > On 19-Apr-22 19:03, Adam Funk wrote:
> > > > On 2022-04-19, Peter T. Daniels wrote:

> > > >> Your former stoogemaster has NEVER refuted anything I've said.
> > > > Has the hierarchy changed again? Maybe there should be a dedicated
> > > > thread for periodic updates.
> > > The only scorecard is held right up close to PTD's vest.
> > I have no ambition to be stoogemaster. If elected I will refuse to serve.
>
> Stooges don't get elected. Just blindfolded and stood against a wall.

If only.

> Except in my case. As Stoogemistress, I just show an ankle, and coyly
> flip my fan.

Temporary honorary stoogemistress -- like a congressman's widow
being appointed to fill out her late husband's term. Such a congresswoman
has only very rarely run for election to the seat when his term would have
expired.

[bruce bowser]

On Wednesday, April 20, 2022 at 8:11:53 AM UTC-4, Janet wrote:

That was just a one-off.

[Sam Plusnet]

On 20-Apr-22 12:56, Adam Funk wrote:
> On 2022-04-20, Kerr-Mudd, John wrote:
>
>> On Wed, 20 Apr 2022 00:38:20 +0100
>> Sam Plusnet <n...@home.com> wrote:
>>
>>> On 19-Apr-22 19:03, Adam Funk wrote:
>>>> On 2022-04-19, Peter T. Daniels wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Your former stoogemaster has NEVER refuted anything I've said.
>>>>
>>>> Has the hierarchy changed again? Maybe there should be a dedicated
>>>> thread for periodic updates.
>>>>
>>>
>>> The only scorecard is held right up close to PTD's vest.
>>>
>> I have no ambition to be stoogemaster. If elected I will refuse to serve.
>
> "I refuse to join any club that would have me as a member."
> (Groucho Marx)

I can't recall who said:

"Even if I had a member, I still wouldn't join."


--
Sam Plusnet

[Peter Moylan]

If an Australian Senator dies in office, his/her replacement is
appointed by the Premier of that Senator's state. The theory behind this
is that Senators are elected by states, so that the federal Senate is
supposed to be a "States' House".

By convention, the replacement is supposed to be from the same political
party as the deceased, and in fact is usually the next person on that
party's ticket at the time of the election. I recall a time, though,
when a Queensland Premier produced chaos by ignoring that convention.
The switch either brought a government down or came close to doing so; I
forget which.

--
Peter Moylan Newcastle, NSW http://www.pmoylan.org

[Sam Plusnet]

On 21-Apr-22 2:05, Peter Moylan wrote:

> If an Australian Senator dies in office, his/her replacement is
> appointed by the Premier of that Senator's state. The theory behind this
> is that Senators are elected by states, so that the federal Senate is
> supposed to be a "States' House".
>
> By convention, the replacement is supposed to be from the same political
> party as the deceased, and in fact is usually the next person on that
> party's ticket at the time of the election. I recall a time, though,
> when a Queensland Premier produced chaos by ignoring that convention.
> The switch either brought a government down or came close to doing so; I
> forget which.
>

"But 'twas a famous victory."

--
Sam Plusnet

[CDB]

On 4/20/2022 5:22 PM, Sam Plusnet wrote:
> Adam Funk wrote:

>> Kerr-Mudd, John wrote:
>>> Sam Plusnet <n...@home.com> wrote:

>>>> Adam Funk wrote:
>>>>> Peter T. Daniels wrote:

>>>>>> Your former stoogemaster has NEVER refuted anything I've
>>>>>> said.

>>>>> Has the hierarchy changed again? Maybe there should be a
>>>>> dedicated thread for periodic updates.
>>>>>

>>>> The only scorecard is held right up close to PTD's vest.

>>> I have no ambition to be stoogemaster. If elected I will refuse
>>> to serve.

>> "I refuse to join any club that would have me as a member."
>> (Groucho Marx)

> I can't recall who said:

> "Even if I had a member, I still wouldn't join."

Not John Wayne Bobbit, at any rate. Apparently he had a bigger one sewn
on and pursued a career in film.

I was watching a David Attenborough documentary last night that featured
a rather nasty predatory worm called a "bobbit".

WP says JWB is the eponym, but he seems to me to be more stupid than
vicious: a strong body running on autopilot.

--
Yes, I was reading about the whole sorry incident yesterday. Why do you
ask?

[Peter T. Daniels]

On Wednesday, April 20, 2022 at 9:05:58 PM UTC-4, Peter Moylan wrote:
> On 21/04/22 00:50, Peter T. Daniels wrote:
> > On Wednesday, April 20, 2022 at 8:11:53 AM UTC-4, Janet wrote:

> >> Stooges don't get elected. Just blindfolded and stood against a
> >> wall.
> > If only.
> >> Except in my case. As Stoogemistress, I just show an ankle, and
> >> coyly flip my fan.
> > Temporary honorary stoogemistress -- like a congressman's widow being
> > appointed to fill out her late husband's term. Such a congresswoman
> > has only very rarely run for election to the seat when his term would
> > have expired.

The best-known exception is Lindsey Boggs. Her husband, Hale Boggs,
was a very powervul Rep from Louisiana, and when he was lost in a
plane crash, the tradition was followed -- but she stayed on for many
years and became a power herself. Their daughter was the late Cokie
Roberts, journalist, one of the "founding mothers" of NPR.

> If an Australian Senator dies in office, his/her replacement is
> appointed by the Premier of that Senator's state. The theory behind this
> is that Senators are elected by states, so that the federal Senate is
> supposed to be a "States' House".

A vacant Senate seat Up Here remains vacant until there's a special
election to fill out the six-year term. Maybe because senators used
to be chosen by the state legislatures; that was changed to direct
election around the turn of the 20th century.

Chris Christie wasted $25,000,000 of New Jersey's money by
scheduling the election to replace the late Frank Lautenberg
(who had been elected _back_ to the Senate to replace the scandal-
ridden Torricelli, who resigned) two weeks before the gubernatorial
election -- because he well knew that Cory Booker's coattails might
very well have carried Christie's Democratic opponent into the
State House in Trenton.

> By convention, the replacement is supposed to be from the same political
> party as the deceased, and in fact is usually the next person on that
> party's ticket at the time of the election. I recall a time, though,
> when a Queensland Premier produced chaos by ignoring that convention.
> The switch either brought a government down or came close to doing so; I
> forget which.

Closest we come to that is that Federal judges traditionally were
appointed from candidates suggested by the senators from the
state where they would serve. Guess when that came to an end.
(Things could get interesting, I suppose, in the few states that
had one senator of each party -- but it was a way to avoid extremists
like the crazy woman in Florida (whose ruling _has_ been appealed).)